[0:01]Today is Monday, August 12th.
[0:05]The following will be a voluntary interview of B.O.P. Warden
[0:10]in furtherance of OIG investigation to be determined.
[0:18]For the purpose of transcription, we will now identify all present in the interview.
[0:22]I'll ask everyone to say and spell their last name
[0:25]as well as identify their working title and employer.
[0:27]I am Special Agent B.O.P. Warden, Federal Bureau of Prisons.
[0:34]Spelling of the name is B.O.P.
[0:36]Thank you.
[0:49]Warden, you have reviewed and signed
[0:53]Public Justice OIG Form 226-2,
[0:57]which is a warning assurance to employees
[0:58]requested to provide information on a voluntary basis.
[1:01]Do you have any questions about this form?
[1:04]No.
[1:05]Would you like time to review it with an attorney,
[1:06]or would you like an attorney here?
[1:08]For now, I don't need an attorney.
[1:09]Okay.
[1:11]Are you currently under the influence of any substances,
[1:13]or is there any reason that would prevent you
[1:14]from fully understanding my questions
[1:17]and answering truthfully?
[1:18]No.
[1:20]Oh, no?
[1:20]Swear you to the statements you're about to make?
[1:22]Please raise your hand and repeat after me.
[1:25]I hereby solemnly swear or affirm
[1:31]Hereby solemnly swear or affirm
[1:34]that the statements that I'm about to make
[1:36]That statements I'm about to make
[1:38]shall be the truth and the whole truth.
[1:40]shall be the truth and the whole truth.
[1:42]Thank you, sir.
[1:44]Warden, would you just tell us a little bit about your career with B.O.P.
[1:46]when you started, how you became a warden?
[1:50]I started.
[1:52]I started out as a correctional officer.
[1:54]Then I was promoted to a lieutenant.
[1:58]From there, I went to special investigative agent
[2:01]at our regional office.
[2:04]And then I went from there, I was a captain,
[2:07]promoted to captain.
[2:09]And then I was associate warden.
[2:11]And then from there, I went to D.C.
[2:13]as our chief of internal affairs,
[2:15]and I'm in my present position.
[2:17]Great.
[2:18]How long have you been a warden?
[2:20]I've been here since May.
[2:22]Since May of 2018.
[2:25]Okay, great.
[2:28]Just, your role, you did a lot of,
[2:32]you've done a lot of internal investigations with the prison
[2:35]and you've worked with the Department of Justice.
[2:36]Right.
[2:38]Moving forward, just as a note, for the record,
[2:42]you're aware that failure to be honest with a state
[2:45]would be considered a criminal offense, correct?
[2:48]Yes.
[2:48]Okay.
[2:51]Let's talk a little bit about,
[2:54]let's talk a little bit about some overall policies
[2:59]that the prison would start with.
[3:00]Okay.
[3:02]So, actually, let me back up.
[3:05]We're here today to talk about,
[3:06]specifically Jeffrey Epstein, the inmate.
[3:09]Would you mind just telling us a little bit about
[3:11]when, your understanding of when he arrived,
[3:16]and that's like, when he arrived, how he was placed,
[3:19]where he was placed, and the reasons behind that?
[3:22]I don't remember the specific date he arrived,
[3:24]but we didn't, what happened was,
[3:27]we weren't told that he was going to be coming to the institution.
[3:30]Okay.
[3:30]When he initially came, he was dropped off on the weekend,
[3:34]and we didn't find out until Monday, myself,
[3:37]that he had been placed at the institution.
[3:40]And then, from then on, we, you know,
[3:44]went through the whole process of the screening,
[3:49]his medical stuff, just normal procedures that we followed.
[3:52]Okay.
[3:52]You know, when you say he was,
[3:54]he was dropped off over the weekend,
[3:56]when someone arrives at the facility,
[3:59]what's the normal?
[3:59]I mean, typically, if somebody's that high profile,
[4:02]we should have been notified and said,
[4:04]hey, he's coming in.
[4:06]We weren't.
[4:07]Okay.
[4:07]You know, I mean, we saw it on the news,
[4:10]but it didn't say, they just said they had him in custody,
[4:13]but we didn't get any formal,
[4:15]I didn't get any formal notice that
[4:16]he had been brought into the institution.
[4:19]So, he was dropped off,
[4:21]and, you know, the lieutenant on shift,
[4:23]they processed him in and brought him into the institution.
[4:27]We didn't find out, realized, until Monday.
[4:29]So, it was Monday that you first were officially made aware?
[4:32]That I was made aware, you know, we found out,
[4:35]and I don't remember if it was from looking at the news reports,
[4:40]we put, put it together that he had been brought into the institution.
[4:45]We went through our Monday morning meeting that we went through,
[4:47]went through, so that's when.
[4:49]When he first arrived, was he placed in charge?
[4:53]Was he placed in general population?
[4:54]Did you know where he was placed?
[4:55]I don't recall where he was placed when he came in.
[4:58]At some point, he was placed in special housing units.
[5:01]Yes.
[5:02]Known as the SHU.
[5:02]Right.
[5:03]Um, what, what, how did he end up there?
[5:09]Well, he was a new commitment, um, he was high profile,
[5:14]so we placed him in the special housing units
[5:16]so we can further evaluate, you know, his status,
[5:18]is he ready for general population, if he could,
[5:21]and we do that with all inmates.
[5:22]Okay.
[5:23]And then to see, okay,
[5:24]um, any separation issues, um, any threats to him
[5:29]before we, um, put him out there in general population.
[5:34]Was he ever in general, general population?
[5:36]I don't recall.
[5:37]I don't, I'm not sure if it might have been the,
[5:39]the first day when he came in.
[5:41]Okay.
[5:41]I'm not sure.
[5:42]So, I mean, I would have to look at the 37, um, to, to, to confirm that.
[5:48]But as far as you know, that Monday, uh, the first business day
[5:52]that you were back with that,
[5:54]after the weekend, he was initially dropped off.
[5:56]Right.
[5:56]From that point forward, was he ever in general population?
[5:59]No.
[5:59]Okay.
[6:01]What are the policies in terms of, or is there a policy that dictates
[6:06]when somebody goes into general population from the shoot after the first arrival?
[6:09]Well, what we do is we evaluate the individual to see if they're ready
[6:13]for general population, if they can hang, you know, if they can, um, uh, populate.
[6:18]Okay.
[6:19]Um, and it's a number factor, it depends.
[6:21]I mean, if I have a, a gang member coming in, I'm, I'm taking into consideration separation
[6:27]issues on it.
[6:28]Um, if it's, you know, uh, uh, somebody that might have been, uh, fraud or bank fraud,
[6:35]then, you know, we, we determine if it's any issues of them going into general population.
[6:41]So, it, it, it's a case by case basis on how we determine it.
[6:45]Okay.
[6:46]Um, are you, what are the policies in terms of when you're notified if someone leaves,
[6:51]uh, is, enters special housing unit or is discharged from special housing unit?
[6:57]Well, what it is is it's routed, um, the individual, it's called the release form,
[7:02]so several people sign it, they review it.
[7:04]Um, uh, I believe psychology, CMC, the captain, and it goes to associate warden,
[7:12]and then they sign the, uh, what we call as a kick-out.
[7:16]Meaning everybody's reviewed it and said, okay, this person's appropriate for general population.
[7:21]Okay.
[7:23]For Mr. Epstein, he was, after that, he was never put in general population, correct?
[7:28]No.
[7:29]Um, who, what's the, what's the determination to keep him in, in special,
[7:35]what's, what's the communication that goes on there?
[7:37]Well, we, now initially when he came in, it, it's, it's the goal to determine, okay,
[7:42]can they go to general population?
[7:44]Okay.
[7:45]So between, um, evaluating him, at the same time we're looking at saying, okay,
[7:51]can he go to general population?
[7:53]Mm-hmm .
[7:54]So it's, it's a dual path that we, two, dual road that we're going down.
[7:57]Sure.
[7:57]But I had gotten word, and I don't recall the date, where, from my regional director,
[8:03]which stated he's not to go to general population, uh, until further notice.
[8:08]The regional director, that's, uh, where is that in the chain of command for VOP?
[8:13]We have five regional offices.
[8:17]Each region has a regional director.
[8:19]This is the northeast region where we have 21 institutions.
[8:22]So he supervises and charges the 21 institutions.
[8:26]Okay, so is he your director of the register?
[8:28]He's my director.
[8:29]Okay, who is that?
[8:32]Yeah.
[8:34]And Mr. Ormont told you that U-Hop is on a verbally or an e-mail call call?
[8:39]Well, we talked about it, too, but I would have to check if there was an e-mail to go with it.
[8:46]But we did talk and said, hey, we're going to hold off on putting him out in the general population.
[8:52]Okay, what do you call when you officially were, you and Mr. Ormont spoke about this?
[8:59]I don't want to give you the wrong date, but it was within that, you know, maybe a couple weeks after he arrived.
[9:09]Okay, so it was a few weeks after he arrived.
[9:11]Right.
[9:12]Okay.
[9:15]After Mr. Ormont told you to keep him, or it was agreed upon to keep him in a special housing unit.
[9:23]Right.
[9:24]Who did you notify that he was to stay in a special housing unit?
[9:28]How does that communicate?
[9:29]So what it does is I get my exec staff together, which is my associate board of the captain, my exec.
[9:39]And we have our meetings, and I tell him he's not, you know, I lay out specific instructions.
[9:45]He's not to go out to the general population.
[9:48]Sorry.
[9:48]Go ahead.
[9:50]And that's basically how it starts.
[9:52]Okay.
[9:53]Were there any other specific directions or instructions given to the staff regarding it?
[10:00]Well, so at the time of him staying in there, we had to find him initially a roommate.
[10:06]Okay.
[10:06]So, and it's hard.
[10:09]Okay.
[10:09]It's hard, especially in a special housing unit when you've got gang members in there that are not appropriate to be housed with him.
[10:15]So we came up with, I came up with Tartaglione, who was in there, white male, probably be able to cope with him.
[10:25]And that's typically how we, you know, that's part of the evaluation process.
[10:30]Is it standard for inmates in special housing units to have cellmates?
[10:35]We typically would like for them to have it, but in certain situations,
[10:39]dictate that they can.
[10:40]If an inmate's a total separation from a group, and we get word from your attorney's office or the arresting agent that,
[10:48]hey, he's to be totally separated, then they would be housed by themselves.
[10:54]They could have an incident in the institution.
[10:57]You know, for example, our gang members, somebody has an issue, and with, for example, the bloods,
[11:07]then we have to say, hey, let's separate.
[11:09]We have to separate him from that, you know.
[11:12]Were there any directions specifically that Mr. Epstein was to have a cellmate at all times?
[11:17]From psychology, when we said, hey, that he's required, he needs to have a cellmate at all times.
[11:24]Okay, and that occurred later on?
[11:26]When he first arrived, there was no specific directions regarding that, correct?
[11:30]No, it wasn't.
[11:31]Wait, let me, you mean when he first came in, were we talking about him having a cellmate?
[11:37]Initially.
[11:39]I don't recall any talks about him initially, and I'm trying to figure out, when he first came in, how he was housed.
[11:48]I don't recall how he was housed when he first came in.
[11:51]Okay.
[11:52]The MCC is no stranger to high-profile inmates.
[11:59]Generally speaking, how do you normally or generally handle these type of high-profile inmates?
[12:05]Any other special considerations, concerns, how does this work?
[12:08]Again.
[12:09]We come in, we re-evaluate them to determine, okay, if they can go out to the general population or not.
[12:16]We've had, you know, we've had a bunch that come in and were able to go out.
[12:19]I mean, we had SIAC, you know, the one that, I don't know if you recall, the one that sent the bombs to the ex-presidents.
[12:30]Okay.
[12:31]So when he first came in, you know, he was high-profile, so we brought him in to determine.
[12:38]He messed up.
[12:39]We paused the interview at 10.55 a.m.