[0:00]the indictment alleges that between at least 2008 and the present comes abused threatened and coerced victims to fulfill his sexual desires protect his
[0:10]reputation and conceal his conduct he's been called the Jeffrey Epstein of the rap world and in fact he is facing some similar charges because now sha Diddy
[0:21]Colmes is sitting in jail preparing to face off against prosecutors in the same court we are taking a closer look at the investigations into Shawn Colmes and Jeffrey Epstein as well as what we could
[0:32]potentially expect a trial and we will make these comparisons with former prosecutor Matt Murphy welcome to sidebar presented by law on crime I'm
[0:42]Jesse Weber music icon sha Diddy Colmes is facing some very serious charges out in federal court right now of sex
[0:52]trafficking racketeering transportation to engage in prostitution two separate judges decided that the millionaire philanthropist who recently had to return the key to New York City he's
[1:04]going to have to stay locked up in that same city until he goes to trial his proposed bail package was denied no pre-trial release and by the way just this morning we learned that Colmes is
[1:15]reportedly on suicide watch at the Metropolitan Detention Center out in Brooklyn and sources told People magazine that Colmes is in shock that his mental state is unclear so this is
[1:26]more of a preventative step and when you talk about pre-t Tri detention in a federal case like this lot of eyeballs very high-profile how can we forget that
[1:36]Finance or sex offender Jeffrey Epstein died while he was locked up at the Metropolitan Correction Center in New York pending trial on his own Federal sex trafficking charges officials
[1:47]concluded that he took his own life although as you know there have been a long list of rumors and conspiracy theories that he had been murdered but here's the big thing brings me what I want to talk about today because as
[1:57]we've dung into the dozens of pages of legal documents surrounding the indictment and any possible bail we have heard Combs compared now to two Infamous
[2:08]sex offenders Jeffrey Epstein and fellow hip-hop artist R Kelly in fact we spoke with Nadia shihata one of the prosecutors who brought R Kelly down on a recent episode of sidebar talking
[2:20]about those comparisons these are the charges I expected um I expected a racketeering um charge they've charged it as racketeering conspiracy here and sex traffick given the allegations about
[2:31]commercial sex acts with prostitutes being flown in um I think these are the types of charges I would have expected in a case like this and you can check out that full interview over on the long
[2:41]crime YouTube page but today we want to do the comparison between com's case and Epstein's case wealth influence sex crimes allegations Federal cases out in
[2:53]New York now of course Epstein was a Financial Manager for some of the richest people in America which brought him you know his own millions and millions prosecutors alleged that he
[3:02]used that money to cover up a vast sex trafficking Network in fact his indictment which was filed by a grand jury in 2019 reads quote over the course
[3:13]of many years Jeffrey Epstein the defendant sexually exploited and abused dozens of minor girls at his homes in Manhattan New York and Palm Beach Florida among other locations and it
[3:23]goes on to say that he enticed and recruited them to perform these sex acts that he paid them that he paid them to recruit other girls now to be clear the charges that Epstein faced before his
[3:34]death they were sex trafficking conspiracy sex trafficking two counts so it's different than what comes is facing racketeering conspiracy this kind of agreement to engage in a racketeering
[3:45]criminal Enterprise that engaged in a number of elicit activities sex trafficking by force fraud or coercion and transportation to engage in prostitution but but have put that to
[3:55]the side we want to compare and contrast could this give us insight into hows will be prosecuted what could we expect from his prosecution are we dealing with
[4:05]a similar situation will we get transparency by the way as we're sorting through these details of sha comes and Jeffrey Epstein can I just take a quick
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[5:09]have a special guest I am joined right now by a very familiar face in the True Crime World Matt Murphy legal analyst for ABC News former senior Deputy district attorney in Orange County
[5:21]California now in private practice and the author of a new book we have it right here is called The Book of Murder a prosecutor's journ jne through Love and Death and he joins us right now Matt good to see you good to see you thanks
[5:33]so much for coming on uh first I'm going to set this book up look how nice that is look how nice I set that up it's like a nice little Bookstore over here um so Matt's first of all great to see you happy to have you on here before we even
[5:44]get into comes and Epstein and there's a lot to get into talk to me about the book because I think one of the things that's interesting for me that I cover this day in and day out we don't think
[5:55]about the impact these cases have on the people who try them or the people who prosecute them and you know we focus so much on the defendants and of course we focus on the victims but in your case
[6:07]you know feeling what this impact had on you is that why you wanted to write the book you know I I really wanted to write the book um kind of to almost as a thank you to all the people behind the scenes
[6:18]you know we have um there are so many professionals that go in you know show up at 3:00 in the morning when I when a murder is committed that never really
[6:29]get the credit or recognition they deserve so for the forensic scientists and the detectives and all the hardworking people that essentially make
[6:37]these cases presentable um and I I think they I really wanted to give them their due a little bit and also you know there's um there's so much that families
[6:49]go through when they're U when they have a loved one who's been murdered and I as a prosecutor in a vertical units Orange County is a little bit different um most DA's offices do it almost like in a
[6:59]assembly line one the the the detectives will investigate the case and then one da will review it for filing another da will do the preliminary hearing or the grand jury IND diment and then it goes
[7:10]on to another one that assigns it to another one for trial Orange County um you get when you go into homicide you get assigned certain parts of the county and you are the da on ahead of time on
[7:21]any murder that happens so I had cost Mesa leguna Beach Newport and Irvine and you get the call in the middle of the night and you go down there with the detectives and and my investigator and you're there to make sure that the
[7:33]warrants are properly done and you're you're essentially there as a almost an advisor a legal adviser to ensure that the constitutional rights of the defendant are scrupulously followed but
[7:44]also to learn about the case from the ground up and then from that night we would do every part of the case we would and that's different that's not in every jurisdiction they handle it no it should be in my opinion should be in every jurisdiction because it's just a better
[7:55]way to do it because you learn every aspect of it in real time you you you know you're there you make the filing decision you decide who gets charged with what and then you're the one that
[8:06]presents it to the jury you conduct the sentencing so it's from the the night of the murder or the day of the murder all the way through the end of sentencing you're with that that case every step of the way and you're with the detectives
[8:17]that that work it up so you deal with the same detectives over and over again and you you you basically establish these relationships of confidence and Trust so when the next one happens and you say Hey you know I think we need a
[8:28]warrant before we search that there's no problem doing that and you work together as a team and another another thing we would always do is I would sit down with my team and the victim's family and i'
[8:39]I'd give them my personal cell number and make sure that they understood that um that there were people that cared and I wanted them to meet my team I wanted to meet my investigator my pargal the people that were going to be behind the
[8:51]scenes making the case happen and trying to bring Justice to that family can I tell you how refreshing that is I have interviewed a number of people victim's family members who don't have that they say we've been trying to get a hold of
[9:02]the prosecutor's office and we got nothing they're keeping us in the dark and sometimes they're sensitive investigations I get it but to hear that is so when when people need to hear it the most when they need to hear that
[9:14]someone's in their Corner someone's a resource for them they're going to be transparent that's that's commendable that you did that well it's it you know it's like the Golden Rule you know and I'm not I'm not religious but you know
[9:26]how would you want to be treated in that situation and when you think about it we all lose loved ones over the course of our life and it is the worst thing that we can experience as human beings the worst of the worst is when you lose a
[9:36]loved one to murder and the only thing worse than that is when the person who did it gets away with it so for somebody that's thrust into that horrific unbelievable
[9:46]situation having somebody there explaining just explaining the process and giving them a face to it and because we would stick with the case through the whole pendency of the of the of the
[9:57]criminal proceedings they had a they had somebody that they could go to that they could call that they could ask questions to and I found that um when you do that it really does it really does help them
[10:09]through that process and it just makes the worst thing just a little bit easier and you have you know overseen so many different cases what are the cases that you can briefly explain the kind of the cases that you talk about in your book
[10:20]that you wanted to highlight so I went through sort of a chronological um it's part Memoir you know so it starts with my first week in the homicide unit and my very first homicide scene and I I
[10:32]walk the reader kind of through my learning process and when I went went into homicide for example one of the things I thought um you know I thought I knew what a serial killer was I'd seen Silence of the lamps you know I I I you
[10:44]know it's Buffalo Bill it's creepy guy in a van you know in a weird house on the hill um and it turns out that's not what serial killers are at all they are they tend to be hyper intelligent a lot
[10:54]of times arrogant um manipulative handsome uh they tend to have successful relationships and it it it is it's counterintuitive in a in a lot of ways and I I take the reader through my
[11:06]learning process and I go through the taxonomy of murders like a child abuse death is a completely different kind of case than a than a gang murder which is different again from a conspiracy to kill somebody for money which is
[11:18]different from serial killers and I spent 17 years in that unit I tried 52 cases while I was in the homicide unit and um you know I wanted to share some of the things I learned along the way
[11:28]and it was uh it was a lot more fun writing the book than I thought it was going to be and it was also cathartic in a way you know sounds like it yeah you see some some absolutely horrendous
[11:39]things but you immediately follow that up with um these Fric professionals you know uh buzzing around at 3 in the morning not complaining with detectives
[11:50]who' have been up for 18 hours not complaining and everybody comes together so you see one one person does the worst thing imaginable you see the visc impact of that with this poor person dead in
[12:01]the house or dead in the ditch or on the autopsy table and you immediately see a a team of dedicated professionals coming in to do their job to do what they can to bring Justice to that family and it
[12:13]it restores your faith well look I'm looking forward to reading it I know our viewers and our listeners who have a passion for the True Crime industry the True Crime field they're going to be very interested in seeing it so you can pick it up the Book of Murder a
[12:24]prosecutor's journey through Love and Death available everywhere right now right yeah and I'm doing signing tonight at Shakespeare and Company uh right here in New York City on Broadway so I think this will come out
[12:36]right about the same time okay fantastic good all right so first of all um congratulations on the book now I wanted to talk to you about what happened we were actually planning an interview with
[12:45]you today we didn't know what the topic would be just so happens Shan Colmes gets arrested and indicted this week so obviously we're going to talk about it
[12:56]what was your reaction to reading the indictment was it what you expected were the charges what you expected you know it is interesting the way they did it so they did it's a three-count indictment
[13:08]but because of the way they they charged it within those three counts they've included all of the the alleged you know crimes committed by him including the
[13:18]arson and the sex trafficking and the narcotics and the guns and one of the things that that struck me immediately is some of these throwaway charges
[13:27]almost like the these like the narcotics schedule one narcotics with firearms for example if that alone um is all he is convicted of under Federal sensing
[13:38]guidelines there is um I mean it it could be decades in prison well can I can I clarify the point he's not charged individually with for example possession
[13:48]of a firearm with an obliterated serial he could have been they could have charged him individually it's a predicate crime as part of this overall conspiracy right if we can this overall criminal Enterprise you know if we can
[13:59]prove these things these are crimes that the criminal Enterprise was a part of and there was an agreement to engage in this activity he could be found guilty why wasn't he charged individually with those crimes because two out of the
[14:10]three charges actually carry up to life in prison so the way they did it the way it's charge is if the jury finds as a part of the criminal Enterprise if they find that to be true and all they need
[14:21]are certain individual acts like the firearms and the narcotics for example then that could still potentially qualify as a life sentence under Federal sensing guidelines so this was something
[14:31]that was this was a wellth thought out approach I think um I I behind the scenes somewhere I think there's a professional prosecutor or several of them who know what they're doing and it
[14:43]when they serve those search warrants um you know the Bearcats rolled in you know those big trucks and they went in with the long guns and if you watch those videos what they came out with were
[14:53]computers and so they went in really heavy and they came out with the most important thing thing and that is um electronic communication devices that could corroborate the allegations that
[15:03]were made in these civil suits so this appears to be a very methodical wellth thought out step-by-step investigation and and decision to charge so this this
[15:14]is the way honestly this is the way I would have done it if I was the prosecutor on this so they basically the the jury will have the option if any of those things listed in those three
[15:24]counts are found to be true that potentially could lead to a conviction of those things with you know potent the potential for decades in prison so they this was done in a in a clever way yeah
[15:34]I was talking to Nadia shihada about the comparisons between this case and R Kelly and she said look Prosecuting racketeering conspiracy versus what she prosecuted racketeering they're both you know tough cases to to prosecute but in
[15:46]a way it's a more streamlined easily digestible way to prosecute combs for racketeering conspiracy than rering I thought that was interesting again anybody could watch that but talking about the comparison between Epstein
[15:57]there is one stark contrast because Epstein was charged with respect to abusing minors minor girls and coms despite what you might have heard on
[16:09]other networks and I I unfortunately I've seen kind of misinformation comes currently is not charged with any crimes involving minors and while there are some civil lawsuits that name comes as
[16:20]having been accused of things like having underrage girls at his parties or engaging in solicitation of minors the indictment against him doesn't charge him with anything related to uh sex
[16:31]crimes with minors that was a glaring deficiency in the case and that could either be maybe they felt there wasn't enough there maybe they're holding on to it but I thought that was interesting yeah it's there there's a different
[16:42]quality to that when you're talking about adults because and and it does open some arguments up for the defense because when it comes to minors virtually any sexual contact is is going
[16:53]to be strict liability in other words if if if it happened as a prosecutor you just have to prove the age and under Most states and under most um criminal statutes that's going to be enough
[17:03]there's no consent right there's no consent um however uh consent with adults will be I think that's going to be a a large part of the defense here and it's going to be interesting to see
[17:14]how that comes out Epstein um one parallel that I immediately noticed here is that each one of these men had a like a people orbiting them that wanted their
[17:24]time that wanted their attention and you know one of the questions I've I've gotten since um since coming out with the book two days ago uh is if I could prosecute anybody throughout time in
[17:34]history who would it be that's a good question it's a it's a great question no and um in my mind it's Jeffrey Epstein you know and and the way that Man's power and influence so he had this orbit
[17:45]of people that were around him and they were flying on his jet and then he uh there was that abysmal prosecutorial failure that happened in Florida where they let him plead to one count of
[17:55]solicitation of sex with a minor and it still said with a minor it was a ridiculous plea I think every prosecutor in that should be ashamed of themselves for that honestly and and following that
[18:07]it was like what how did this go so so wrong and and then the Miami Herald to their credit they ran a series of articles that that changed the complexion of that but what was
[18:18]fascinating is there are people here in New York City who continue to associate with Jeffrey Epstein after he was convicted of a sex crime with a minor and they were still riding the jet including a journalist who was involved
[18:29]um that that is disturbing so that was that case was one where it was like everybody wanted to forget that conviction and and then the Manifest
[18:39]came out for the uh for who was flying around on his jet and there's a big difference between the before that uh that conviction and after but there were some really famous people that continued
[18:49]to associate with that guy only a few months ago we did sidebars on the documents that were released like all the communications between prosecutors and his team the grand jury transcripts which raised even more questions why he
[19:01]wasn't charged you know more seriously um back in the day there is something interesting I was going to ask you this look to this day with galain Maxwell his you know Madam accomplished she was
[19:13]found guilty of her own sex trafficking charges sentenced to 20 years in prison he's dead there's been no other accountability we're dedicating another sidebar to whether anybody else could
[19:23]get in trouble with respect to the com's case and let's be clear he hasn't been found guilty these charges are incredibly fresh we don't know who else would be involved but when you're talking about operating a criminal Enterprise and you're talking about a conspiracy and there a lot of people
[19:35]said there's people who have been at his parties and they have to have known do you think that this is going to be a similar situation where he's just going to be the only one and nobody else that
[19:46]if we talk about accountability if we talk about transparency people are still asking questions about Epstein so here's one of the one of the fascinating things about this case is there's one name on that indictment one name one name and
[19:57]one name only and one of the words you see over and over again is Enterprise so when people think of Rico you think of the mafia you know but this these are Rico allegations essentially so it's
[20:08]when you're talking about an Enterprise you're talking about conspiracy whether it's charged or not and you're talking about other people so that one name what that means is behind the scenes as this thing started as they started putting it
[20:19]together with the search Wars and everything else I suspect what we're going to see is people within the organization who had criminal potential criminal liability are going to test ify against them and that's you know when
[20:30]the civil suits are going on and somebody's getting sued it's much easier to be loyal to somebody with as much money and power as Sean comms or a Jeffrey upstand when you're talking
[20:40]about a federal investigation it is no joke in federal court like the sentencing guidelines are severe if you're involved in something like that and criminal defense lawyers have a a
[20:51]euphemism they use when it comes to conspiracy cases there's two buses there's the defendant bus or there's the witness bus and when whenever you have a case like this it's a race to the
[21:01]witness bus and every good lawyer representing anybody else in that Enterprise is going to be calling the prosecutors faster than than you can say
[21:10]go to say my guy's got important things to say and wants to help and I think that's what we're going to see I thought it was strategic that Damen Williams the United States Attorney for the southern district of New York said this on this
[21:20]investigation is ongoing and wouldn't rule out what might happen with respect to Colmes additional charges or anybody else getting prosecuted you know you mentioned comparing the two cases so Epstein you know was accused of
[21:32]operating this sex trafficking Network Combs operating a criminal Enterprise that engaged in sex trafficking and violent crimes so you see the similarities there was another thing too and I think it's an interesting
[21:42]component of these Federal cases is that Epstein was being prosecuted for conduct from the early 2000s comes being prosecuted for conduct all the way back
[21:52]from 2008 does it make it a tough case for prosecutors to go that far back in time
[22:00]um well under under the current Rules of Evidence and this is an interesting thing so um back when I was in law school uh probably shouldn't even say how long ago it was because I'm going to
[22:12]age myself but um there there's a thing called character evidence that goes back hundreds of years and the the the general concept is if you've done something bad in the past it it doesn't
[22:22]mean you did something bad this time and so it shouldn't be admitted against you okay so if somebody for example Le um robs Banks and just because the bank got robbed down the street doesn't mean they can just Round Up The Usual Suspects
[22:34]there has to be additional evidence and you can't simply use somebody's background against them however as we've kind of progressed there are two big exceptions to that that have grown in
[22:45]the last 30 years in in the Rules of Evidence throughout the 50 states and also in federal law those were sex crimes and domestic violence and you know and I think we all saw this um we
[22:57]kind of went through this as a as a population like I I'm not a huge hip-hop fan but I always kind of like Diddy I saw him you know Get Him to the Greek and you know I I didn't want to believe it and I didn't want to believe it in
[23:08]Bill Cosby either and none of us wanted to believe it in OJ um but my thoughts changed dramatically when I saw that hotel video and you hear the allegations
[23:17]made by Cassie Ventura and you know it's a civil case right so you know in civil we we live in a litigious society and what does that really mean and is this somebody that's going for a money grab
[23:27]which is what he said and you you just don't know one way or another and I think it's healthy to keep an open mind and even skepticism when somebody's being accused of something but then we saw that video and when he comes out in
[23:38]the towel and severely beats her and kicks her when she's on the ground and you look at it it's like oh that's highly corroborative of everything she said and that piece of evidence is going
[23:49]to be admitt admitted in his trial and we all knew it's like okay given these allegations that is going to be admitted evidence-wise so going back in time that
[23:57]was uh 2016 2016 that that's that's old U it's beyond the statute of limitations however for sexual assault in California yeah for for yes for assault excuse me
[24:08]for assault in California the statute was blown which is a whole other thing we've got a a DA in Los Angeles that um I think is has been horrific for Public Safety and violent crime but that's
[24:18]another another thing but the um but the idea of that being admitted and it's you know it's recent enough it's coming in I didn't think that we would see it as fast as we did because what happened was
[24:29]um his defense made a big pitch for bail a $50 million bail is immense and the the initial the federal magistrate denied it and they appealed it to the
[24:38]full federal judge who came out and and the defense said you know look they were involved in a long 10year loving relationship and immediately the judge pointed at that video and said What's
[24:48]Love Got to Do With That and so that tape came in like day two of the proceedings I I expected it to happen at some point during the trial I didn't think that it would it's come to haunt him that quickly and you know what's
[25:00]haunting him now is that he admitted it was him right so two days after that video comes out he goes on Instagram and apologizes for it when he could have you know I mean he had no choice that video was incredibly clear about what it was
[25:11]but you know I think he painted himself in a bad legal predicament I will tell you what I also think is interesting comparing comes and Epstein is that and this is a common theme you know the
[25:22]alleged victims might be different here but prosecutors in both of these cases have said that the defendant were they were sex obsessed and that they used their wealth and their power resources
[25:33]Network to satisfy these desires and more specifically for comes prosecutors alleged that he had these freak offs these fos where he would allegedly bring
[25:42]in male sex workers and direct them to have sex with women that he knew often for days on end while he watched and sometimes participated women claimed that they were drugged and coerced into
[25:53]performing these sex acts fearing that by the way if they didn't they would face you know repercussions threats violence and that I think is why people are making these kinds of comparisons to
[26:05]Epstein um because that also again seems to be high power people having the ability to do this not everybody's going to be charged with these kind of allegations is if you have the ability
[26:15]to do it right yeah another 100% another thing that we see in both of these cases you see the allegations of witness intimidation you know and Jeffrey Epstein there were two sisters the
[26:26]farmer sisters um that were the first to report the allegations against Jeffrey upstein and they they reported it to a reporter for Vanity Fair magazine that famously did not run with that story and
[26:38]then and then everything happened in Florida and it turned out all essentially to be true and there's a lot of finger pointing back and forth between the reporter and the editors at Vanity Fair um but there were there have
[26:50]been allegations of threats and intimidation against Vanity Fair magazine um from you know powerful people in the orbit of Jeffrey glain Maxwell interestingly after he was
[27:01]convicted after Jeffrey epine was convicted in 2008 she was invited to the Vanity Fair um Oscar party you know and I I I still have not been able to wrap my head around um people continuing to
[27:13]associate with those with Jeffrey Epstein and glain Maxwell after the conviction and and at least some of this stuff came to light so with with you know Sean comms we're going to I think
[27:24]see something similar where we're going to see some of these famous people trying to distance thems as as far and as quickly as they can and he had a lot of a lot of powerful famous people showing up to to these events and and
[27:35]you talk about the properties right so you know what else you talk about this there's this unnamed Department of Homeland Security agent who is apparently part of the raid on com's Miami mansion and he told the New York
[27:46]Post that the rapper had rooms in his homes that were obviously dedicated to sex he told the post quote so if you were in those sex parties you were being recorded from every possible angle
[27:57]including angles wouldn't have known about in my opinion he's as bad as Jeffrey Epstein these women are young either barely legal or barely illegal and then he also told the post that we
[28:07]have evidence that these women didn't feel like they were free to go and there's video evidence that some of the girls are clearly out of it while these men are having sex with them and then if you go back to the indictment they say
[28:18]quote uh Colmes also used the sensitive embarrassing and incriminating recordings that he made during freak offs as collateral to ensure the continued obedience and silence of the victims but going back to Jeffrey
[28:29]Epstein he was also accused of having cameras all over his homes where he would allegedly record himself with underage girls as well as sex acts between the girls and powerful men that he invited into his home and these were
[28:40]allegedly kept not only for you know his viewing pleasure but also as possible leverage here Matt right um and of course with Epstein's uh suicide or
[28:51]parent suicide um those never came to light now I don't know I don't know what exists or didn't exist we never we never had the benefit of seeing the trial um now galain Maxwell's of course um she
[29:03]was convicted and she is still alive and she's been sentenced to federal prison but um yeah I when they came out of that those homes with those computers that is
[29:12]I think um probably making quite a few people nervous about what the feds have and what he actually did record and I don't think anybody knows um except for the federal government and the the
[29:24]officers and pretty soon the defense so that'll be you know this this could be hugely embarrassing um and and we'll see I mean the the those tapes are going to
[29:34]form a critical part of the defense because if the defense is consent the the graphic details are going to be a key a key component of that for them they're going to they're not being able
[29:46]to deny it happened right they yes they won't be able to deny it happened but also you know they're I I think that we're going to see some questions about you know hey look looks like you're consenting there you know we're going to
[29:56]see things like that and this is going to be a fascinating trial it's going to be it's going to be sorted I mean this is really going to be something to watch um you know and for to the extent that anybody was in fact and of course we
[30:07]have to presume innocence right um if this turns out to be true hopefully these people that were involved in this especially the women will be able to you know move on with their lives in in a way that they can put this behind them
[30:19]you know I think that'll be tough but hopefully they'll be able to do it you think this and 100% this is going to go to trial what do I mean by that I'm not talking about a Jeffrey Epstein situation I don't mean that what I'm
[30:29]saying is I don't imagine any kind of deal could be worked out with him you know they talk about well he's going to give up everybody he's going to go after everybody he's gon to name names he's
[30:39]allegedly at the center of everything and so you know he is looking at potentially life in prison if he's convicted right you mentioned that I don't see any kind of deal where he
[30:49]wouldn't get significant prison time but what would a deal even look like that he wouldn't go to trial well he's he's what he's in his mid-50s now 54 yeah so he's
[30:58]54 years old so the I cannot Envision any sort of any sort of plea here because if he takes 30 years what does that mean at 80% under the federal sensing guidelines you know so what what
[31:10]would be a plea that is palatable versus going to trial and I mean if you get 30 years at age 54 it's the same as life anyway you know so I I think that we are
[31:21]going to see I think we're going to see a trial here let me ask you this and I wanted to ask this comparison so comes and Epstein they both had their own private jets Epstein was infamously Epstein was infamously known as the
[31:32]Lolita Express there were flight manifests that Matt explain that have revealed the names of several high-profile people who have flown on that plane and com's legal team says that he's actually in the process of
[31:42]selling his plane his attorneys wrote about it in a letter to the judge where they argued why comb should be granted bail we know that was denied and sure he has a private plane and potentially jet off somewhere but they say he's getting
[31:53]rid of it and I will ask you clearly that didn't convince either judge but this is the question I keep getting asked why didn't he take off right he knew the charges were coming he comes to
[32:04]New York I think he wanted to surrender himself what makes sense to me why he never did this is besides the difficulty of doing that I think he really believed he could make bail and by being
[32:16]cooperative with the government because there is correspondence that was attached uh in the filings recently this week where you see the correspondence between his attorneys and the government attorneys talking about hey we got his
[32:28]passport we're going to let you know when he goes to a x y andz and I think they were thinking he'll make bail so he'll be on home arrest for like you know one two years till this trial happens and I think he really thinks he could beat the case otherwise explain to
[32:39]me why he didn't jump on his plane and just take off somewhere well I think you're right um I think that he he clearly you know uh I I think they thought he was going to he he would be
[32:51]out um but another problem for them is that where are you going to go he's one of the most famous people in the the world um and any place that you can fly
[33:00]to that does not extradite back to the United States is no place you want to live I mean you're talking about Iran maybe um is it better than federal prison Venezuela yeah Pro probably
[33:12]especially if you got a lot of money but you know it's fleeing is a lot more complex than than a lot of people believe I mean we're in the Modern Age look we can exodite from almost every
[33:23]country um you know there are few that won't but um you know I think that the idea of being out on bail fighting the charges um you know having a couple years at least before it actually goes
[33:35]to trial was preferable to fleeing to some of the places that won't extradite back to the United States you know and look we've I've been involved in a lot of international extraditions over the
[33:45]years and they always catch them we always get that guy and um you know unless it's you know there's a few places where especially if they're not famous and they can go back to their
[33:56]family or go underground or maybe they get away with it for a while but contrary to public opinion or popular misconception Mexico exodites murderers and and criminals all the time we saw
[34:07]that with the Caitlyn Armstrong case in Texas the woman who fled to Costa Rica she was back in like just over a month you know the Costa Rican authorities and there's a lot more Studio yeah that's right there's a lot more cooperation
[34:19]internationally among among police and the different countries than you might think and yeah I don't know where he would have gone yeah I know I think I just I think people watch the movies I say oh I didn't I want to end with this
[34:30]point um and going back to something full circle we know that Jeffrey Epstein was found dead he was found dead at the Metropolitan Correctional Center um and obviously they're now comparisons being made with comes because in fact during a
[34:40]news conference announcing the charges against comes on Tuesday United States Attorney Damen Williams was asked about col's pre-trial detention is your office concerned
[34:52]with uh with coles's safety in custody given um given what happened with EP Epstein so we are concerned with
[35:01]anyone's safety whenever they are um detained prior to trial it's part of our obligations to keep people um safe as well um it's part of the criminal justice system so um but I do not draw
[35:13]any sort of connection between um Jeffrey fene suicide and um what may or may not happen um to any other defendant while they are um detained pre-trial and
[35:24]of course the decision whether to um detain the defendant will be up to a judge our position is that pre-child detention is warranted under the law and based on the facts of this case um and
[35:35]I'll leave it at that so when you think about that Matt um what should we be thinking about com's pre-trial detention is his life in jeopardy you mean from himself is he a
[35:46]danger to himself or anybody else General speaking you know I I've I've read some of the conspiracy theories on the Jeffrey upsin case and um you know
[35:55]uh I my my my personal thoughts on that this may be controversial I I think that he did suicide I think that um you know when you're you know when you're talking
[36:06]about jails and detention facilities the camera's never on the camera never works they it's you know I had I did the HSE niri case who escaped from the Orange County Jail which is a maximum security
[36:17]facility and the Calamity of errors that had to go into his ability to escape thankfully we captured him again but it's it's like the comedy of errors that
[36:27]lead up to that is you know it shouldn't be this way but it often is you know you've got um you know the just the the the dumbest things can happen and and
[36:37]people do they suicide and custody it's a it's a thing that happens nobody theoretically should ever be able to do that but I've got I've I've seen cases since I've been in private practice
[36:47]where people have accomplished that I I had a guy on suicide watch in uh LA County Jail that took like 45 minutes braiding his bed sheets together in order to you know
[36:58]he hanged himself in his cell and and there was somebody supposed to be watching that the entire time you know so negligence and incompetence like that really does happen so I I would like to
[37:09]think that that same facility and I think it's the same one right it's a different one so the Metropolitan Correctional Center where Epstein was actually closed and then you have him at the Metropolitan Detention Center it like if you read about it it is not a
[37:20]place you want to be there's a lot of problems but I think they transferred a bunch of those people so it's the same personal hopefully they've learned their lesson and they're going to be a little more diligent um you know assuming that
[37:32]you know Epstein that that that the authorities are right that it was a suicide you know I I don't know yeah no I I hear you I hear you look there are comp a lot of comparisons that could be
[37:41]made a lot of disturbing allegations and like you said we'll see where this case progresses but I can tell you what everybody can do right now they can pick up the Book of Murder by Matt Murphy thank you so much for coming on sir I
[37:52]really enjoyed it really appreciate it thank you you got it all right everybody that's all we have for you right now here on Side Bar thank you so much for joining us and as always please subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify
[38:02]YouTube wherever you get your podcasts I'm Jesse Weber speak to you next time [Music]