[0:00]There's files that have not even [music] been presented yet. >> Potentially millions of them. >> Correct. >> And Epstein recorded everything in his home. So where's that video footage?
[0:10][music] I think that is going to >> that's be the most revealing. I think that's a missing piece of the pie. >> Hello, I'm Matt Fry. Welcome to Trump
[0:22]World. I'm in London. >> I'm Anushka Estana in Washington DC. Maybe we should call it Epstein world because the whole world and of course
[0:31]the US is totally consumed by the release of the Epstein files and map. It is very very dark. It paints a terrible
[0:41]picture. a picture that we had already been given sight of to some extent, but the details are just so gruesome of him
[0:51]running this ring of sexual abuse and this network of unbelievably powerful friends. I mean, reading some of the
[1:01]details of how he actually spoke to some of those individuals, how they appeared to hang on his every word is just really quite something, isn't it? I mean, what I find astonishing about this particular
[1:12]data dump from Epstein is the sheer volume. Three million documents. It'll take months to go through all the stuff and cross reference it. And of course, some of the release has been quite chaotic. Some names not redacted.
[1:24]Apparently, there were pictures of nude women and girls in there which uh you know, which even the lawmakers didn't know about. They suddenly popped up. They had to be um censored. So, what it
[1:35]tells me looking at the little stuff that I've managed to look at from it is that this was a snapshot of Epstein after he'd been convicted and
[1:46]sent to jail at a time when he should have been shunned by society as a registered sex offender, but he was still a magnet for the world's rich and
[1:57]powerful. It's extraordinary. And then the the degree to which these people trusted him and confided in him. Why would they do that? Why would they do that to a guy who was known as a sex offender?
[2:07]>> And just this morning, our own investigations team, who are incredible and who have been looking through this in great detail, have uncovered a spy
[2:17]cam footage from inside Epstein's Palm Beach living room. I'm just going to read this because I want to get it exactly right. Channel 4 News has verified it. It appears to show him recording himself with potential
[2:29]victims. It seems like more evidence of the use of voyeristic surveillance as part of his sexual exploitation of women and girls. Epstein's victims have
[2:39]repeatedly alleged they were filmed as part of a pattern of exploitation and abuse. There have also been accusations from some victims that Epstein acrewed evidence of sexual exploit exploitation
[2:50]as part of a blackmail operation. I have to say, I've heard from survivors who said they were terrified about coming forward because they felt such shame, but also because he had photographs of
[3:01]them. One of them said to me, "It was only when he was dead that I finally felt this release because she'd felt so trapped by him." And the the images show
[3:11]him as well in a robe, a dressing gown. And again, I've spoken to people who described even going to a job interview and him turning up and coming out in a
[3:21]dressing gown and speaking to them in that way. I mean, every day brings fresh horrors, doesn't it? Again, what I find bizarre is how he was able to create a
[3:31]very unsafe, dangerous place for his victims and how he lured them into the trap with promises of, you know, model agencies
[3:41]and access to film producers and dental care and maybe plastic surgery and sent his scouts around Eastern Europe and Russia to, you know, to literally
[3:50]harvest these women for his own harm and at the same time created this safe space for the world's rich and powerful. Why
[3:59]were these people who were so rich and so powerful, you know, why did they regard him as such a magnet? And I think it's almost like a social ponzi scheme. You know, if you know Epstein, you're in
[4:11]that inner circle, you're having fun, you're making money, you may be parking your money with him. It's okay. You know, it'll it'll lead to good things. and the the outside world out there that
[4:22]cares about the victims that might at some stage ask for accountability, well, they can go to hell. >> We're going to hear from two survivors, survivors who I've seen previously
[4:33]standing outside Capitol Hill pushing for the release of the Epstein files, and we're going to hear from them and whether they think they're actually starting to get accountability. Um, bit
[4:42]of a spoiler, no, not yet. Um, but let's just talk through America. So the kind of key figures here obviously Donald Trump, Howard Lutnik, the attorney
[4:52]general Pam Bundy who is today in front of um Congress men and women who are going to be grilling her and also the process and the fact that lawmakers have
[5:02]finally been allowed to go in and see unredacted files. >> There's so many names in it, but let's start with the most important one, Donald Trump. More mentions of him. Uh tell me how and in what context.
[5:14]>> Yeah, I mean Donald Trump is a really interesting one. We know that he had a really close friendship with Epstein back in the 90s and very early naughties. Interestingly, he would say,
[5:25]"This vindicates me. Let's move on." Whilst someone like Kharma, who didn't have a relationship with Epstein, is obviously in quite a lot of trouble about his appointment of Peter Mandolen. Um, but as you say, Donald Trump is
[5:36]mentioned many, many times. And actually, one congressman, Jamie Ruskin, Raskin, came out of looking at the unredacted files and said when you search for Trump in the unredacted
[5:46]files, the name comes up more than a million times. I think it's important to say when people say there's no smoking gun here, that really the files begin in
[5:56]2005, which was the first time there was a raid, an FBI raid from which they started to collect material. And by that point, obviously the relationship with Donald Trump had um disappeared to some
[6:08]extent. Um so I don't think the fact that there isn't a smoking gun means that there shouldn't be accountability around the relationship with Donald Trump and there still may well be a smoking gun. But what's come out here is
[6:20]quite interesting. It basically it was a police figure who gave evidence in 2019 referring to or claiming that Donald Trump had called him back in the
[6:30]naughties and basically said everyone knows what Epstein's up to. Apparently called Gileain Maxwell evil um at that time which tells you two things. It
[6:41]suggests that Trump did know what was going on. And it's so interesting when you speak to survivors because they say and you'll hear this. They say anyone who was close to him knew what was going
[6:50]on. But also, and this was what the press secretary, Caroline Levit, said yesterday um when asked about this, also it does suggest that Donald Trump didn't approve of what was going on.
[7:02]>> I think it should also be mentioned that Donald Trump famously doesn't like to use emails. And of course, remember this, we're going on email records and
[7:12]photographic records in the files. Think of all those phone conversations and all those in-person conversations that Epstein had that we will never ever know about. What is the world that opens up,
[7:24]you know, you know, before our eyes, you know, in our imagination when it comes to that? I think I mean what's so interesting about the documents now is that they create a very clear paper
[7:34]trail on email that contradicts a lot of stuff that people have been claiming. And of course, you'll never find anyone who says, "Oh, I was a close friend of Jeffrey Epstein's." They're all denying their friendship, including some very
[7:44]well-known figures. So, Elon Musk said in caps last year, you know, I never really liked the guy. I barely knew him. And then, according to this uh email trove, you know, there's an email from
[7:54]Musk more or less begging Epstein to be invited to the island. But actually, one of the most outspoken members of the Trump administration, Howard Lutnik, the commerce secretary. He's also rather
[8:05]incriminated, isn't he, Anushka? I mean, I would really encourage people to watch back what Howard Lutnik said just in October last year when he was speaking to a podcast when obviously this was
[8:16]very controversial, but at the time we didn't have the files. Um, it was about a month before Donald Trump changed his mind and said to Republicans, "Vote for
[8:26]this. I'm relaxed about it." Um, and basically he describes the fact that he moves in 2005 in next door to Jeffrey Epstein and he says that his new
[8:37]neighbor invites him and his wife over for coffee and for a tour of the house. And Lutnik described how Epstein takes him from room to room and they open up
[8:47]one door and there is a massage table in the middle of the room surrounded by candles. Lutnik's in this interview saying, you know, I just couldn't believe it. What on earth, Epstein? you
[8:57]know, you you have massages so often that you need a room in your house. And apparently Epstein responded, "Yeah, I like the right type of massage and I like it every day." Now, Lutnik in this
[9:08]interview says he and his wife were disgusted that they immediately made their excuses and he basically says, "We left." And then in the, you know, few
[9:19]steps that it took them to walk back to their house, he realized that this guy was disgusting. And he basically said, "We decided then that we would never be
[9:29]in a room with this guy again, that he was gross." And he said he has never seen him in friendship, in business, or in philanthropy. >> Fast forward >> seven years.
[9:40]>> Tell us what was in the files. >> Well, what was in the files is that basically seven years later in 2012, after which, it's important to point this out, Epstein had already been convicted um as a sex offender, had
[9:52]spent time in jail. Howard Lutnik is involved in a private business venture with Epstein and more importantly takes
[10:01]his family his family to the infamous island where you know a lot of these crimes had been committed. You know the he takes his family having said in 2005
[10:11]that he and his wife would never return you know to >> never be in a room with him. >> Never be in a room with him again. >> Yeah. Again, I think it's so important to realize that there are many examples
[10:22]of this blatant hypocrisy. And I guess a lot of people like Lutnik and others never thought that it would come, you know, see the light of day because first of all, they thought they were acting
[10:32]with impunity at a time. Everyone else is doing it, you know, why should I be caught out when Bill Gates is doing it and, you know, and Elon Musk is doing it and all these other very rich and
[10:42]powerful people. And I guess you know the chickens have come home to roost and it's astonishing that you know the ripple effects of Epstein across the oceans and you mentioned this before us
[10:54]cannot be underestimated and ironically of course the biggest political scub so far may well be in this country in the UK as far as we know Karma you know didn't know Epstein never saw Epstein you know is not really mentioned in the
[11:05]Epstein files other than perhaps in a news report but because of his very bad and fateful decision about appointing Mandlesen as ambassador to Washington despite, you know, a lot of the warnings out there. And so it gives you this
[11:17]comparison of cultures of accountability and shame. And I have to say we still do shame and accountability on this island probably better than they do in the United States in the era of Donald Trump.
[11:29]>> Yeah. And it should be said that when it comes to Howard Lutnik, first of all, Donald Trump through his press secretary Caroline Levit has said that he continues to have his full support. And
[11:39]in fact, when she was asked about it, she basically said that and then said, "And all of you journalists are not asking me about any of the positive things we're doing." And then started to list them. So immediately changed the
[11:50]subject, attack journalists, tried to move on. He actually was grilled on it in a committee hearing this week. And he his claim is I saw him twice again since
[12:00]that first meeting that the time on the island he was with his family on a boat on holiday and they went for lunch. He insists that it does not amount to a
[12:10]relationship and he is going to absolutely fight it. But there have been calls actually from Republicans and Democrats for Howard Lutnik to resign.
[12:20]>> Anushka, I mean, you know, we we saw we remember the outrage when the president didn't want to release the Epstein files, especially on the MAGA base. Is the MAGA base now content with what
[12:29]they're getting? And is America, you know, beginning to kind of normalize the extraordinary revelations in these files or are they outraged? >> Well, if you look at the polling data
[12:41]when it comes to the MAGA base, they remain very, very loyal to Donald Trump. Even though you've got some big figures like Marjgerie Taylor Green who have
[12:51]fallen out, you know, with fireworks with Donald Trump, that isn't actually representative of the MAGA base. did want to see the Epstein files released. And I think across the country, the
[13:02]Epstein files are a net negative for this administration, but they see their man Donald Trump as vindicated by this. Just last week, when Donald Trump was
[13:13]asked about this again, he said, "I think the country is fed up of this. I think the country wants to move on." Just before he once again attacked a female journalist. So, Anushka, we're seeing plenty of stuff and it's
[13:23]shocking, but the congressmen and women who are going in there, they're seeing even more uh stuff that is unredacted. What are they making of it? >> Yeah, I mean to be fair to the
[13:33]Department of Justice. I mean, clearly this has been very bungled. There have been huge mistakes in terms of the way it's been released. It is such a flood that it's hard to get your head around
[13:43]it. But, but they are allowing lawmakers to go into the Department of Justice and look at the unredacted files. We've seen some of them come out. Interestingly, some of them came out with even more
[13:53]questions. Roer and Tom Massie, who we know have spent a lot of time pushing for all of this, spent two hours in there, came out and said, "We found just in two hours, six more men whose names
[14:04]are redacted, which should not be redacted." They also said, interestingly, that the unredacted files have redactions because that's how they arrived at the DOJ in the first place. Redactions presumably put in place by
[14:14]the FBI. But some of the people who've gone in there and come out have been really, really horrified by all of this. You're about to hear from two Democratic Congressw women, Representatives Becca
[14:26]Balant and Melanie Stanbury. And then finally, proTrump Republican Lauren Bobart immediately after they saw the unredacted files at the DOJ. to
[14:37]understand the depths of depravity. I just can't even
[14:46]there aren't words to describe what are in those files. But it's very clear that the United States government
[14:58]has failed to hold perpetrators accountable for decades in this case. I've tried to
[15:07]shoot a video now probably a dozen times trying to tell you about what I saw in the Epstein files and and honestly it's just so depraved and it's sick and it's not a cabal. It's so much bigger than a
[15:18]cabal. It is a vast network of rich and powerful people believing they can do whatever they want to girls and women. >> Congresswoman, are you among the members who got to see the unredacted files today?
[15:30]>> Um, yes, I saw some of them, not all of them, obviously. Um, and I'll be going back tomorrow to see more. >> Any reaction on what you've seen so far? >> Um, I I think that there's uh folks who are definitely implicated and co-conspirators
[15:41]and uh, you know, I don't think everyone there that was uh talking about underage girls being trafficked are victims. >> Got it. And do you support any clemency for Gain Maxwell? She was saying that she >> I do not. I think I think Gain Maxwell
[15:52]should get more time and she should definitely be in a harsher prison than what she's in. It's absolutely disgusting. >> Got it. Thank you, Congresswoman. >> And of course, we shouldn't forget Gain Maxwell who's spending jail time for
[16:04]this. She's still in jail, but she did testify before Congress this week. And for those people who were expecting fireworks and revelations and jaws to drop, well, they were very disappointed
[16:14]because she basically spent, you know, the few minutes that she was there pleading the fifth amendment and not saying anything at all. I mean, my jaw did drop, Matt, at that. Not not just
[16:25]the fact that she was pleading the fifth amendment, saying that, you know, she had this right to be silent, but the fact that her lawyer said she would
[16:34]talk, but only if she is pardoned by President Trump, which is extraordinary. She's serving a 20year >> jail sentence for sex trafficking. And look, it was really interesting. Last
[16:46]night, I spoke to two survivors, Lisa Phillips and Lara Bloom McGee. Both of them saw Gileain Maxwell when they were in the orbit of Jeffrey Epstein. Both of
[16:57]them were abused by him. Both of them saw some of the powerful people we've been talking about revolving around him. And their experiences were horrifying
[17:08]and traumatic. Have a listen. My name is Laura Bloom McGee. I'm from Little Rock, Arkansas, and I am a
[17:17]survivor of Jeffrey Epstein. I recently came forward with public in November of 2025. Um, I was inspired by the press
[17:28]conference that Lisa and some of my other survivor sisters did, but specifically Lisa, she inspired me to to speak and to no longer suffer in
[17:39]silence. And I wanted to do that for my three daughters and for anyone else that may ever have to experience sexual assault. This is bigger than us, bigger
[17:48]than everything with Epstein. This is We're just getting started and we can make a huge difference long term. >> Lisa, >> wow. You inspire me, too.
[18:00]>> Thank you. >> So, I'm Lisa Phillips and I'm a mother of three boys and they were the reason also that um I took this challenge on.
[18:10]And um I've just always been an advocate for survivors because I didn't have survivor sisters. I didn't have a supportive family and you know um partner at the time when I wanted to
[18:22]speak out. And so I thought it was really important to be there to support other survivors. And that started with Virginia G. in 2019, not just Epstein survivors to come forward and kind of
[18:34]own your story and let go of that shame and >> step into that power so that we can do something collectively together. >> And how are you coping with all of this?
[18:45]>> It's not easy. I'll tell you that. I think since the last files were dumped on that Friday, my nervous system has not been the same. There's something I just can't shake. Um, we were always
[18:56]aware of, you know, the 18 24 year olds in New York, um, that were groomed and manipulated and abused. And then it was hard for us to deal with the minors in
[19:06]Florida that are are survivor sisters of ours. And >> finding out about some younger victims has been very difficult for me. >> I feel sad about it. There's a sadness
[19:18]to me about it. I'll tell you this, there's only so much that I can watch as far as the media. Um, and I think that that's some advice that I can give to to
[19:28]all of my survivor sisters. Like there's only so much that we should we should take in for our mental health. >> You're struggling with your mental health. >> It's a lot. You know, every station that
[19:40]we turn on, they're talking about Epstein and it's it's a lot to deal with. >> Traumatizing. Well, I just I just think that a lot of people don't
[19:50]>> realize that, >> you know, we were violated, some of us one time, some of us for years. And so, >> this is something traumatic that a lot of us just disassociated or suppress.
[20:02]And this is new to a lot of us for the last couple years coming forward. And >> when you when you realize that there's so many hundreds, if not thousands involved, >> it's just a sickening feeling that you
[20:12]have to work through. You have to deal with that trauma. And I was um there at the capital when you spoke out in September and then of course you spoke
[20:21]out in November and what you wanted so desperately was for the Epstein files to be released. >> Mhm.
[20:29]>> We've obviously got a lot of documents. Do you think the administration has delivered what you wanted? >> Absolutely not. No. Um, we asked for all
[20:41]the files to be delivered and all the files have not been delivered. I feel like they have deliberately broken the law on many different levels and a lot
[20:52]of the names of the victims were unredacted over 50 names so far that we know of and some Jane Doe names. >> Um,
[21:03]>> and have you spoken to people affected? How are they feeling? And that's unacceptable that they were told that their name is protected and then no and the federal government told them that and >> now their name is out there.
[21:14]>> So do you think they've really messed up? >> Oh yes. >> Well, I mean we asked for accountability and transparency and >> transparency we haven't gotten yet. I mean, it's well past the the date when
[21:26]the president signed the bill in November >> and um they, >> you know, exposed so many survivors that their friends, family, community now knows when they were supposed to be
[21:37]protected. >> And so um before we can even get accountability from these people, >> we need the transparency. And um >> what what do you need? What what would
[21:48]get us to a point where you feel satisfied with what you were pushing for? uh the co-conspirators named and a just because your name's in there, I don't believe that you're guilty, but a
[22:00]investigation and talk to the survivors. We have stories. Investigate these men and and some women and talk to us. >> Has anyone come forward to talk to you? >> No.
[22:12]>> No one from the administration is asking you what you knew. >> No. And Lisa, you said I remember you saying
[22:22]>> we're prepared to make a client list effectively >> if something's not coming out there. From what you've seen are the powerful people in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit. The
[22:32]people who you guys saw, >> are their names out there? >> Well, um, that was an idea. Uh, for me it was
[22:43]calling to a survivor so that we could get together and connect the dots. not just names but institutions and um anyone that was involved in enabling
[22:54]>> with with with Epstein because we knew that there was many other people involved. Um, in January I brought forth uh information about in institutions,
[23:05]universities that were involved with um Jeffrey offering scholarships for these young young women and girls to attend universities.
[23:16]>> And um that's something that through our research and coming together that we were able to um bring to the proper authorities. So, I feel like we're
[23:27]honoring that. But when it came to the list and the people that we did talk to, the attorneys, the DOJ, >> I think they have the names, you know, and and through the files, they have the
[23:39]names. They have everything and it's their responsibility, not ours. >> It's not our responsibility. Um, it's not safe for us to do that. These are some very powerful men. They can
[23:50]defamation, sue us. They have they're billionaires. So, it's not safe. There's so many different reasons. Um >> do you believe from what you have seen that there remain redacted names in
[24:01]those files that we have no idea about? >> Yes. Yes. >> Well, luckily it's moving forward a little bit. A few members of Congress have seen >> unredacted, you know, and and when they
[24:12]when they left, you know, they were just like, >> yeah, >> the looks on their faces like this is this is bad. >> There's more. And also, you have to realize that there's files that have not
[24:23]even been presented yet. >> Potentially millions of them. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And um >> and Epstein recorded everything in his home. So, where's that video footage? I
[24:34]think that is going to >> that's >> be the most revealing, but um not quite sure. >> Do you think you'll get that? Hm. I mean, that would be the I think that's a missing piece of the pie, but I'm not
[24:45]quite sure >> where that is or even if it's been destroyed. >> Correct. I think that the probably the estate had that material and I seriously doubt that they handed that over to the DOJ.
[24:57]>> Right. >> Do you think it could be forced to be handed over? >> Not in this administration. [snorts] >> And we've heard some powerful individuals who've been wrapped up in
[25:08]this. For example, Peter Mandlesson described Jeffrey Epstein as charming, clever, engaging. I care about how you would describe him. And I just wanted to
[25:18]ask you, what was he? What is he to you? >> Charming, clever, engaging would be definitely a way to describe him. I mean, most survivors would tell you you have to have kind of this lovehate
[25:28]relationship. He had to be really good and help you out and do things for you to be really bad. So, I think those are good descriptions of him, but I would
[25:39]also say calculated strategic master. >> Definitely. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and >> a monster. >> Yeah. Definitely a monster. >> Mhm.
[25:50]>> And he's not here now, but Gilo Maxwell is. She's serving >> a 20-year sentence. And I have to say I was shocked when we stood outside the
[26:01]room where >> there was the deposition and she said she would say nothing unless she was pardoned. How did you feel when you heard that? >> Well, she felt like another criminal
[26:13]will pardon another criminal. >> That's not accountability. That's like I'm just here for myself. I don't still don't care about you survivors and what I did, >> you know? I just want to get out of here and
[26:24]>> Yeah. and thinks she's going to escape this and and where she's going to live in her castle again. And I I don't understand what she thinks is going to happen when she's freed. Um I think she
[26:35]should stay behind bars and probably not um >> have puppies and and dinner parties, [laughter] you know, I think she should she she should go back to the the prison. >> She's exactly where she needs to be.
[26:47]This operation would not have been successful without her. Do you do you remember her in the times that you both saw a lot of Jeffrey Epstein?
[26:58]>> Well, we both met her, but I only met her once briefly. And I think >> you met her before. >> Yes. Um, I was recruited by her. And I
[27:08]feel like if it was not because of her, of how she elevated him and talked about him for months of this wonderful man that has
[27:19]all these connections and and could help me, then I wouldn't have met him. >> So, you must have been pretty angry when
[27:28]you heard that she was pleading the the >> Oh, yeah. She's she's where she needs to be. Mhm. And >> these are two really good examples because a lot of the the young girls
[27:39]were brought by Galain like yourself and then >> Jeffrey also had these layers of the young girls bringing more young girls and I was brought by another young girl. >> Mhm.
[27:50]>> And do you think we're getting towards understanding this? Do you think the world is starting to understand what happened to girls and young women like yourselves? >> They're starting to understand. Yes. But I mean we're still peeling the onion
[28:01]away. >> We're still not there yet. >> No. I think that we have a long road ahead. I think that there's still a lot of people that don't understand. And I think that with the word traffic, too, I
[28:11]think people think that it's like taking someone and crossing state lines. But we were trafficked. We were told by him or
[28:20]Galain to sleep with someone and for reasons unknown, but his wealthy friends. >> Well, overtly like that and covertly. I
[28:31]think a lot of them also didn't even know they were >> Yeah. being an audition or >> and for all that's happened particularly in a country like the UK where we've got
[28:42]police investigations, we've got a situation in which the UK prime minister was almost brought down. >> It doesn't feel like a lot is happening to the same degree here in the US and it
[28:52]certainly doesn't feel like other people are facing criminal sanctions >> for what happened. Well, you have a very different Justice Department in the UK than we do in the US.
[29:03]>> So, why do you think this is happening? What is it that they're not doing? >> Well, we have a overwhelming amount of people that they need to investigate and look into. >> Um, and in the UK, I think you just have
[29:14]a few and you're actually doing something about those. >> Are you frustrated by the lack of, >> of course, >> progress here? >> Yeah, I think it's a systematic issue, though. I think that just in general uh
[29:25]people that are victims of sexual abuse a lot of times they're not believed >> that's just that's what our yeah that's the foundation what our history tells us and um and
[29:36]>> you speaking out is changing that >> little by little >> and other people are coming out I mean you spoke and that that actually led you to coming out >> later quite a few yeah quite a few
[29:46]survivors at Epstein but you know what thousands of emails and DMs and calls from survivors all around the world >> and not just women, men too >> that were just like, I've never told
[29:57]anybody this, but this happened to me at this age or in college or and people are just wanting to get it off their chest >> because it's like one in four, >> you know? So, it's it's a deeper issue than just Epstein.
[30:08]>> Yeah. And just just on him, did he talk to you about his powerful friends? >> Of course. >> How did he describe them? >> Why did he live that life? Did he explain it?
[30:20]Well, I have validation because when I knew Jeffrey, I used to hear him on the phone all the time with a particular individual and he used to like joke around and tell me little secrets about him and make me feel like, oh, I was special.
[30:31]>> And recently, I saw him in the files and I was just like, yeah, finally, I've never said anything about him because he's a very powerful man, very wealthy man. And uh >> you wouldn't validation like that is
[30:42]just that validates our stories even though it's not outward or anything. It's just something that >> we know things and saw things and it's like now we see them in the files so many years later. >> Mhm.
[30:53]>> And just to be clear, you would rather not name who you're talking about. >> You have to understand a lot of survivors are very >> understand >> scared of people. Read the files. His name's in there.
[31:04]>> And do you think that that is the beginning of accountability? >> Yes. >> Not on the not on the person though. >> Not on that person as Yes. >> Yeah. as as people start coming forward
[31:16]and acknowledging it and validating it. Yes, we're getting there. >> Do you think it was possible to have been in Epstein's orbit, to have been at his dinner parties, to have been one of
[31:27]his close friends, and to not have known what was going on? >> That's a hard one. >> If it was someone that was around quite a bit, they absolutely knew what was
[31:38]going on. If you were just, you know, I met him one time, I was invited to a dinner party. No, but it didn't take too long. >> No, because he wore his perversions. >> Yes. >> Very outward. It's all he kind of talked
[31:50]about and you knew about him and I would say everyone every male outward Yes. >> would know exactly unless you're just meeting him and he probably took a little time.
[32:00]>> Donald Trump basically says it's all a hoax. The country's fed up of hearing about it and I'm vindicated.
[32:09]What do you think about all of that? I never met him. So, >> well, we're not a hoax. We're real. Our stories are real. Our pain is real. So,
[32:21]that first part, um, we're we're not moving on. He would love for us to because he's in the files many times. Um, but we're not going anywhere. We're here and we're going to keep speaking.
[32:33]And there were obviously people who were friendly with Epstein or who knew Epste or who met him even after he was convicted who may not have any other accusations against them. And one of them is the commerce secretary
[32:45]>> Howard Lutnik who insisted he decided in 2005 he would never see this awful man again and has clearly now met with him twice since that. >> Do you think people like that should
[32:54]resign? I think that he will be forced to resign at some point >> and
[33:06]>> do you think this will spread? Do you think the pressure is starting to grow here? >> Yes, this is this is not going anywhere and if we don't get justice now, we will in the
[33:17]next administration. So, yes, absolutely. >> We're inching forward with this thanks to people like yourselves speaking out. We're starting to see pressure exerted
[33:27]on the DOJ, exerted on people like Pam Bundy, >> but clearly there's massive frustration. How optimistic are you that we get to a
[33:38]point where there is justice and where there is accountability? >> I have hope >> and I'm going to continue to have hope.
[33:47]I feel like we are making great strides together and no matter how frustrated I get, I know that we're going to have answers.
[33:58]>> Yeah. And I'm an optimist, too. So, I do have lots of hope because also we're not stopping until we get >> Yeah. >> you know, until we get there and we get answers. And we have many people in in
[34:09]in >> Congress and representatives that are supporting us and they want answers as well. So, I do think little by little we're getting there.
[34:18]>> I feel like there are many people that need to have courage um that can vote a certain way, but there's we're lacking a lot of courage right now
[34:29]>> in Congress. >> Yes. >> Among lawmakers. >> Yes. Courage to do to do what's right. >> Yeah. >> And what do you want them to do? >> To do what's right. >> Yeah.
[34:40]>> This is not about Republican, Democrat. To do what's right. >> And everybody knows what that is. >> Yeah. to do the right thing. >> And that's think about your mother, your sister, your aunt, any woman in your
[34:50]life and do the right thing. >> And ultimately that means getting all of the information out. >> Get the information out. Do the investigations. >> Mhm.
[35:00]>> A real investigation. >> And that's justice. >> Yeah. >> Amazing interviews there, Anushka. I mean, you know, for them to come forward
[35:10]and talk as openly as that to you, I think is is really, really brave. And I think we spend so much time talking about the political ramifications of Epstein and of course we should because they are real and they will have
[35:22]consequences but we should never really forget the fact that at the heart of Epstein's you know ecosystem of of of abuse and sleas
[35:32]and and and money and power were were the victims. >> Yeah. Survivors who are slowly becoming brave enough to speak out and um it was really really interesting to speak to
[35:44]them. I'm very grateful for them joining us. And that is it for this week. Trump World will be back next Wednesday. Bye from here in Washington DC >> and goodbye from me in London. See you
[35:55]next week.