[0:00]Breaking news on this sidebar. A congressional committee has just released reportedly neverbeforeseen pictures and videos of Jeffrey Epstein's property in the Caribbean. We are going
[0:10]to go through each one right now. Welcome to Sidebar presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Now, before we get into all this, by the
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[1:05]to create your videos today. Okay, this is a different kind of Jeffrey Epstein update for you. A different kind of sidebar than we have for you. So, as we have been reporting, there has been this congressional committee that has been
[1:16]releasing information regarding the deceased financeier who was accused of operating a sex trafficking ring, abusing underage girls for years. Well, now, Democrats on the House Oversight
[1:27]Committee have just published reportedly never before released photos and videos of Epstein's private island on the Caribbean. And I'm going to show all of
[1:36]them to you right now. Now, we're talking about Little St. James Island in the US Virgin Islands. The House Oversight Committee has been investigating this property. They asked for a series of materials from the US
[1:48]Virgin Islands attorney general, tax related matters regarding Epstein, if any local law enforcement were bribed. You know, there's always this thought that if he was committing crimes at a
[1:59]property like this, was there a cover up? Were there things that people knew and just didn't say? Were they paid off? You know, the committee's chairman, Republican Representative James Comr, stated in his subpoena letter, quote,
[2:10]"The committee believes that the documents related to Mr. Epstein, his estate, and the US VI litigation will aid its ongoing investigation into Mr. Epstein, Miss Maxwell, and the federal
[2:20]government's investigation into both individuals." Now, to put it into a little bit more context, the attorney general, who I mentioned before, claims that Epstein used this island to cover
[2:31]up his criminal activity. And this AG sued the Epstein estate after Epstein died, saying, "Remember, he owns a whole island, so it wasn't a situation where a child or a young woman would be able to just break away and run down the street
[2:43]to the nearest police station." You wonder if that's suggesting there was a cover up by others. And in terms of actual sexual abuse, okay, there is an alleged victim that told CBS that
[2:55]Epstein raped her and held her against her will at this location. quote, "He also trapped me in his bedroom on the island where he had a gun strapped to his bed post. I couldn't leave. The only
[3:06]means of getting off the island was either helicopter or boat." Now, to be clear, these are images and videos of the property, so you get a sense of what we're talking about. It's obviously not
[3:17]evidence of Epstein or others engaging in alleged criminal activity, per se, but what it does show is something very important. Yes, it shows the size, the grand nature of the property, the rooms,
[3:27]the wealth, but it may provide possible clues as to what went on there. The man that was facing federal charges of sexually abusing minors for years. So,
[3:37]let's show you what was released. Now, it's not a ton. Okay, not a ton. Got several photographs. Let's start with that first one. Got to start with arguably one of the weirdest. this photo
[3:48]of a room with what appears to be a dentist chair, maybe because you kind of see this certain examination equipment, maybe a massage table in the back. And
[3:59]then look what's on the walls. All these weird masks all nailed up on the wall. Got to call this photo out, too. Looks like a library. Really extravagant
[4:09]chairs, desk, books behind glass, but then there's the blackboard. On that blackboard, it appears to be written the words power, deception, plots,
[4:21]political, truth. Don't know who wrote that. Don't know when they wrote that. Don't know why they wrote that. Then you got this close-up shot of a phone with all these specific names on speed dial
[4:32]like New York office, Darren, office cell. Also contacts for Larry, Rich, Mike, and then a bunch of different lines for J E. So seemingly for Jeffrey
[4:42]Epstein. Have another photo of a bedroom. Nothing too out of the ordinary here other than it being perfectly white, perfectly cleaned, perfectly maintained. Almost seems sterile. Got a
[4:54]photo of a bathroom with two sinks and these decorative wicker chairs. It looks like some towels lined up on the floor. You have a photo of another dimly lit room. Again, well-kept, clean, nothing
[5:06]out of the ordinary. Got this photograph of maybe a steam room sauna. I say that because you look at the tiles there. Maybe someone could sit. Hard to say, but you have all these towels in the
[5:16]bins, pillows, and if you think back to what the main claims were, that Jeffrey Epstein and Glain Maxwell were abusing girls through massages. You think about that, how the abuse would have been
[5:27]perpetrated, this photo can maybe leave you uneasy. Then you have a photo of the outside of the house, the exterior, just really, really impressive, expensive,
[5:38]massive property. And the videos are going to show that in a minute, too. Then you have this shot of a rundown no trespassing sign, private property, not
[5:47]nefarious or noteworthy other than you couple that with everything else that has been alleged against Epstein and what he's accused of doing behind closed
[5:57]doors takes on kind of a maybe different meaning. Now, let me go back to the videos. So, first is a video of the outside grounds. So
[6:49]I know Just get a sense of how massive this
[8:40]property is. And if you go back to what the AG said, if someone was trying to escape, good luck. Another one where you can see
[8:48]it bordering the water. And then you have this other video of a
[9:30]bedroom and bathroom. and another video of a bedroom and
[9:51]bathroom. Interesting. Nice and warm in here.
[10:10]Now, look, what to make of all this? Hard to say. Representative Robert Garcia on the oversight committee said in a statement, quote, "These new images are a disturbing look into the world of Jeffrey Epstein and his island. We are
[10:22]releasing these photos and videos to ensure public transparency in our investigation and to help piece together the full picture of Epstein's horrific crimes. Now, remember, this all comes on the heels of the House Oversight
[10:33]Committee releasing a plethora of materials, emails, texts from and to Epstein. The big headlines were about any possible connection to President Donald Trump. We covered this in a previous sidebar. messages like one from
[10:44]2011 from Epstein to Gla Maxwell, his convicted sex trafficker associate, saying, "I want you to realize that that dog that has embarked is Trump. Victim spent hours at my house with him. He has
[10:56]never once been mentioned, police chief, etc. I'm 75% there." And Glane writes back, "I have been thinking about that." But the big takeaway to put this into
[11:06]context, remember what's happening. This all comes as we are potentially waiting for the DOJ, the Department of Justice, to fully release all of the Epstein files in its possession after President
[11:18]Donald Trump signed into law a bill ordering the DOJ to do so. In fact, I'll tell you what, I sat down with CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Honig a few weeks back. I don't know if you caught this. It's a really good discussion
[11:29]because we talk about, okay, put all the noise to the side. What can we really expect to be released in these files? Okay, so I want to bring in I love
[11:40]having him on. We're so lucky that we get him. Special guest CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Honig, former federal and state prosecutor and author of great book. Oh, there we go. Got it centered there. When you come at the King,
[11:52]encourage everybody to pick it up. It is a great read. Um, look at that. We We didn't even plan that. We have it on at the same time. Uh, Ellie, thank you so much for coming on. I'm made of questions. Um, before we get into what
[12:02]we can expect the DOJ will do, you know, talk about this 30-day window. This is the main question I had. I laid out basically what has been released over the last several years. What do you
[12:13]Ellie Honig think that is going to be released? What do you think anything new that's going to be released? We talk about these Epstein files. Epstein, what new is going to be released in your opinion? >> Well, Jesse, first of all, thank you for
[12:23]having me. Um, I'm thrilled to come on with you anytime. I love Long Crime Network. I'm a fan a fan of yours and the network as a whole. Um, second of all, everyone should set their
[12:34]expectations modestly as for what will come out here because you've been told by members of Congress and others, people in the White House, that here it is, folks. Full disclosure,
[12:46]transparency, you're going to see the Epstein files. Two important qualifications there. One, there is not really such thing, it's not so neat and tidy as the Epstein files. There's not
[12:57]some file cabinet at DOJ that has it all in there. There's a combination of video and surveillance and audio and documents. You know, all we know is it's
[13:08]300 gigabytes, which I try, you know, you and I aren't really tech guys, Jesse. I tried to figure out. I mean, that's like the equivalent of several thousand audio books or or ebooks basically. So, it's a massive quantity,
[13:20]but it's not like there's some neat thing where it's like just hit send and boop, there you go. We have it all. But the other thing is the law that was passed the other day that Donald Trump signed into law that Congress passed
[13:30]almost unanimously. Again, they're all congratulating themselves, Republicans and Democrats alike, for look at us, paragonss of transparency. The problem with that law is it has two massive
[13:41]exceptions, loopholes, whatever you want to call them, which I'll lay out for you here. The first one is ongoing criminal investigation. Now, Jesse, you know, your listeners and your viewers probably know ordinarily DOJ would never just
[13:52]crack open their criminal files. Okay, everyone, come on in. Here you go. Take a look. The only reason this is being done here, there's so much public interest that it resulted in a law being passed. But the law itself says if there's ongoing criminal investigations,
[14:03]DOJ does not have to turn those over. Now, that means it's up to Pam Bondi. So, your level of faith that this is going to be a full and transparent disclosure is equal to your level of
[14:13]faith in Pam Bondi because I know from being inside DOJ, you can open an investigation on anything you want. You can claim that almost anything relates to an investigation somehow. That's
[14:22]number one. Number two, even broader, there's an exception for any materials in the Epstein files that might impact national security. DOJ can withhold those. Now, you're probably thinking,
[14:33]"What could this have to do with, you know, United States dealing with Venezuela or Israel or whatever?" How about this, though? Couldn't an attorney general say, "Well, that's material in
[14:43]there that's embarrassing or might reflect poorly on the president, the commander-in-chief, the chief diplomat of the nation." And if it's something that makes him look bad or could be used to embarrass him or could be used to
[14:54]extort him. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but you know, could be made to look like he's in a bad position that could undermine our national security. Hence, I will withhold that. So, those are the two massive loopholes. And the
[15:05]last thing, Jesse, is we're not going to know. It's not as if Pam Bondi has to do what lawyers do sometimes. We do like a privilege log saying, "Okay, other side, here's a description of some documents that I've withheld because they're privileged." We're not going to have
[15:16]that. We're we're not going to know what we don't know. We're not going to know what Pam Bondi has chosen to withhold. So again, we are sort of at the mercy and whim of Pam Bondi here. >> So in other words, we won't know if
[15:27]everything is really turned over unless there's some evidence to suggest something was withheld. And I want to get into that because >> I mean she may be asked, look, someone may ask, did you withhold anything? And she may say, yes, consistent with the
[15:38]law as passed, I've withheld national security and investigative files, but we're not going to we're not going to see them and we're not going to know how many and which ones. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, and I want to get into that a little bit further. There's another
[15:48]aspect of it, too, because it says under this law, they can withhold or redact the identities and personal and medical files of Epstein's victims. They can also withhold material that would constitute a clearly unwarranted
[16:00]invasion of personal privacy or depicts or contains child sexual abuse, which they should. But I guess one of the big questions I've been asked is, so whatever they release, whatever it is they're going to release, is it going to
[16:11]be pages of blacked out redactions? Hm. I I would expect that. I think there's going to be two categories of things we don't see. There's going to be entire files, entire documents that we don't know exist that we're not going to see.
[16:22]But yes, get ready to see. Also, you know, it could be, let's give an example. Let's say you have an FBI 302, which Jesse, as you know, is a formal typed up summary of a witness interview
[16:33]that prosecutors have done. It could be there's a 33page 302 where half of it is blacked out, where names are blacked out, where individual paragraphs are blacked out. Um, that's going to take a
[16:44]while for DOJ to figure out, although we'll talk about timing in a moment, but yeah, I mean, I would expect I would expect to see quite a bit of redaction ink in what we do see >> and just to send her back. So, we believe, right, when we talk about what
[16:56]this could be, this is all connected to the Florida and New York investigations into Jeffrey Epstein, right? Generally speaking, I mean, I guess that's what it is and we'll get a little more granular,
[17:08]but generally that's a great question because like it's not necessarily everything that's known to the world about Jeffrey Epstein. It's not even I mean we've already seen that Epstein's estate seems to have some documents that
[17:19]DOJ does not have. There's really there was two major investigations of Epste. There was the one down in the southern district of Florida which was federal run by Alexander Acasta back in 06 0708 which resulted in his sweetheart deal
[17:31]where he did 13 months in state and he was in and out you know of custody. That was the original sin in this case. That was when Alexander Aosta let him off very very easily. Um Acasta to this day
[17:41]has never provided a a satisfactory explanation of why. But so that'll be one set of documents. How far did they range? We don't know right. Did they just focus narrowly? Did they How many
[17:52]victims did they have? I mean, we know that there were many victims presented to that office. So, that's number one. >> And by the way, that might be duplicative of what was released, the 2006 grand jury transcript and all that.
[18:04]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. The second category, the second bucket of documents is if you remember when this all rebubbled to the surface in 2019 was because Donald Trump made Alexander
[18:15]Aosta his I think it was labor secretary. And all a sudden people started saying, "Wait, hang on, hang on a second. Isn't this the guy who back in 0708 gave Jeffrey Epste a pass? The Epste thing came. Honestly, Jesse, I hadn't even heard of it until 2019. I
[18:27]don't think I was aware of who Jeffrey Epste was, just not living in Florida. But in 2019, Alexander Aosta becomes Trump's uh cabinet secretary. This comes roaring back to life. And now we're into the second bucket, the SDNY, my old
[18:38]office in New York, picks up this investigation, charges Jeffrey Epstein for a broader range of conduct. He then dies in prison and then the next year charges Gileain Maxwell. She ends up going to trial. So, it's going to be
[18:49]those files, but again, the question will be how broadly did they range? Did they talk to 50 victims or three victims? How far back in time did they go? But those are going to be the two
[18:59]buckets of information that DOJ has. >> And real quick, this is what's in their possession. In other words, there will be people who look at this and say, "Wait a minute, this doesn't mean everything that's ever related to
[19:10]Epstein." because there have been uh reports in the past, there have been accusations in the past that there might have been material that wasn't obtained by authorities that wasn't obtained by the federal government. >> Absolutely. I mean, look, the feds, you
[19:21]can't get everything. Um, and you know, I guess there is an open question how, and one of the criticisms may well be that comes out of this. Well, why do they look so narrowly? I don't know. I guess we'll see. But yes, there are
[19:31]documents that the estate has that DOJ doesn't have. There are potentially documents that victims have that they don't have. There have been a whole bunch of civil suits. So yes, it's only
[19:40]contained to what DOJ has and DOJ has no obligation and and I'm sure has not gone out and built up more files. Although they are now allegedly investigating new stuff, but um that won't come out
[19:52]because it's current, you know, relates to a pending investigation. I want to get to that in a minute. So something to consider here as we talk about what we can expect, right? What happened in July? So, the FBI, the DOJ, they released this joint memo saying, quote,
[20:03]"The Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have conducted an exhaustive review of investigative holdings related to Jeffrey Epstein. This systematic review revealed no incriminating client list. There was also no credible evidence
[20:15]found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions. We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties." Now, we'll talk about what Pam Bondi just said in a
[20:26]press conference regarding this investigation in the Southern District of New York in a minute, but Ellie, now we're talking about the release of these files in light of what was said by the government in July. Does that mean,
[20:37]okay, we're really not going to see anything bombshell tying people to criminal activity, does that mean, do we know that, hey, did they really 100% look at everything or can we really
[20:49]believe that statement in July? It depends on which version of Pam Bondi and Cash Patel you choose to believe, right? Because they've both had three
[21:01]completely different iterations. When they were about to take office and in the years leading up to them taking office and even after they took office as AG and FBI director, it was all can't
[21:11]wait to turn this over. Cash Patel says put your big boy pants on. Whatever that means. Pam Bondi, the stuff's on my desk. Remember Pam Bondi had her big release party where she handed out binders at the White House. Phase one.
[21:22]So that's phase one. Disclose, disclose, disclose. We're the party of transparency. Then phase two is what you just said, Jesse. Over the summer in July, this memo saying, actually, no. Nothing to see here, nothing further to
[21:33]do. I'm going to speculate that they were hoping that would be the end of it. But in fact, it had the opposite effect of causing people to say, "What are you kidding me?" After years of promising, now you're saying there's nothing. And
[21:44]now we're into phase three, which is back to phase one, which is, "Oh, no. No, no, we have now Yes, sir. We're opening up all these new investigations of of Bill Clinton and Reed Hoffman and this is a and yes, we are all in favor
[21:54]of full disclosure and transparency and all that. Now, as for what we're going to see, my best guess is look, the bottom line question I think everyone's interested, I think the victims are most interested in is who did wrong here
[22:05]beyond Jeffrey Epste and Gain Maxwell. We know they're criminals. We know they were the ring leaders, but they can't have been the only ones. And and let's be a little more specific. People want to know what men, what powerful men had
[22:16]sex with girls, with underage girls. And I think what we are likely to see is a little different from that is along the lines that we've seen with Larry Summers, right, which is embarrassing,
[22:27]disgusting, ridiculous correspondence with him and Jeffrey Epstein, but not necessarily anything I've seen that suggests Larry Summers commits a crime
[22:37]in those emails. at least Stacy Plask, right, the the the representative in the US House from Virgin Islands, you know, embarrassing interactions with Jeffrey Epste. He's feeding her questions during congressional testimony, which she's
[22:48]then asking Michael Cohen, Michael Wolf, the writer, right? I mean, ridiculous exchanges with Jeffrey Epste. They're planning PR responses and all that. I think we're going to see a lot more of that. I think we're going to see
[22:58]powerful people embarrassed and and potentially deservedly so. But I don't believe we're going to get documents where you're going to say, "Oh my goodness, this proves or strongly
[23:08]suggests that that person committed a federal crime." I would imagine that kind of stuff would be subject to the ongoing criminal investigation exception. >> And in terms of video proof or
[23:20]photographic proof, it goes into that exception of if it's depicting minors being abused, that will not be released to the public. But you do wonder, would
[23:30]there be some sort of summary document >> saying what those videos or photos depict? But I mean, I I wouldn't hold my breath on that. >> Yeah. I mean, again, they don't have to
[23:41]DOJ does not have to ne if let's say they have a video that let's god forbid they have some video that shows a child being abused. I think they just withhold that video. I don't think they have to
[23:51]type up a memo saying be advised. Again, this is what we would call like a privilege log. In in some forms of litigation, if one party withholds documents from the other, you have to at least say, "Be advised. We are
[24:02]withholding a document from around this date because it depicts something, you know, whatever." I don't think DOJ is going to have to do that. I don't think we're going to I mean, they can choose to, but why would they? So, no, I I don't think we're ever going to know
[24:13]exactly what they've withheld >> and and who or who not maybe. >> Yeah. And by the way, you are right. I mean, the third category of exceptions, which is uncontroversial, is they need to withhold information that would
[24:24]reveal victim identities, compromise victim privacy, and also materials that would show that would be criminal in and of themselves. If there's child sex acts or abuse depicted, that should be withheld. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. >> Well, there are people who are like,
[24:36]"Okay, just tell us who the adults are in these materials." But, okay, put that to the side for a second, and I'll get into the timing of this and what we can expect from the DOJ. I do want your opinion on something, okay? Because yes,
[24:47]you mentioned it 100% accurately that they're not going to disclose things if you if it would hurt or impede an ongoing criminal investigation. Has to be narrowly uh tailored and and things of that. But the president ordered Pam
[24:59]Bondi to open up an investigation. Wrote on Truth Social in part, "I'll be asking AG Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice together with our great patriots at the FBI to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and relationship
[25:10]with Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reed Hoffman, JP Morgan Chase, and many other people and institutions to determine what was going on with them and him." And then Bondie replied on social media, "Thank you, Mr. President. SDNY US
[25:21]Attorney Jay Clayton is one of the most capable and trusted prosecutors in the country, and I've asked him to take the lead. As with all matters, the department will pursue this with urgency and integrity to deliver answers to the
[25:32]American people. Now, this is what Pam Bondi said we should expect. >> So, we have released 33,000 over 33,000
[25:42]Epstein documents to the Hill and we'll continue to follow the law um and to have maximum transparency. Also, we will always encourage all victims to come
[25:53]forward. and she was asked, "Okay, how do you reconcile that July statement that I mentioned before, so nothing more to see with now opening a Southern District investigation?"
[26:04]>> The DOJ statement uh earlier this year saying that uh the files would not release mentioned the fact that the review of the documents and the evidence
[26:14]did not suggest that any additional investigation of third parties was warranted. Uh what changed uh since then that you launched this investigation?
[26:24]>> Information that has come for information um there's information that new information additional information and again we will continue to follow the
[26:34]law to investigate any leads if there are any victims. We encourage all victims to come forward um and we will continue to provide maximum transparency
[26:44]under the law. the issue with the new information that you just indicated are is the department seeking information perhaps from the Est Epstein estate because Mr. Blanch did not have that
[26:55]information when he interviewed Gain Maxwell. What new information and would you limit the new investigation to just those named persons that the president talked about or is this a broad
[27:06]open-ended investigation? be I would refer to um the deputy attorney general's post that he put out on X and we're we will we're not going to say anything else on that because now it is
[27:18]a pending investigation in the Southern District of New York but you're on point. So Ellie, I mean, she responds, "There's new information. There's new there's additional information. New information
[27:29]again, thoughts on that statement as we're trying to talk about what we can expect. You have this new investigation after the July statement." She was very vague. On one hand, I would say, look,
[27:40]if there is a really investigation, you're dealing with sensitive matter. Of course, a prosecutor, of course, an attorney general wouldn't want to reveal more information. would be kind of uh
[27:49]subtle in that but strange. >> I am very dubious of Pam Bondi's explanation there. I mean to believe her you would have to believe that sometime
[27:59]after July of this year in the so sometime in the last 4 months after she declared nothing to see here nothing further to be done some new victim previously unknown or some new documents
[28:10]previously unknown with no ongoing investigation fell out of the sky to justify let's now open an investigation of these four people or whoever you know Clinton and Reed Hoffman and all that
[28:21]the new information is that Donald Trump said to do it the new information I believe is there is a different political wind blowing now. Um and that's why look Pam Bondi is not very
[28:32]good at when she gets caught. It's like we used to make fun of one of my brothers cuz he was sort of the worst liar. Like he couldn't keep a poker face and I mean she's like that too. That was an embarrassing clip. Like if she was
[28:44]confident if something really new had surfaced since July. If new victims had come forward she would have said because the world has changed since July. When I made that announcement in July that was absolutely true. Case closed. But I'm
[28:55]telling you, we have substantial new information. We have new witnesses. We have new facts. And we have an obligation to follow up on that. And that's what we're doing now. That's not what she said. Instead, you saw her like
[29:06]backpedaling, stammering, offering nothing of substance. So, I don't think anything's changed other other than the politics of it all. >> But it does give them, like you said, maybe a window, maybe an opportunity, a
[29:17]weapon to not disclose more information. >> Here's the paradox of it, though. If this is being done faithfully, if they're applying the exception that says you can withhold documents relating to
[29:29]ongoing investigations, that would mean they're going to be withholding documents relating to Bill Clinton and Reed Hoffen, the people that Donald Trump wants to see hurt publicly, harmed
[29:39]in their reputation publicly. But the exceptions would say those are the very documents that now need to be kept away from us. So, not sure they've thought this all the way through. Any doubt the
[29:48]DOJ will release this within 30 days? If we're talking about a timeline, if we're talking about what to expect, will they release it within 30 days? And when?
[29:58]Uh, I have no doubt they will release some documents and probably a lot, probably as much as they can within that 30-day period. It would be it would just cause uproar if they did not meet their
[30:09]deadlines. Look, you know, this is one of the big questions, Jesse. They could do it on a rolling basis. They could start today and say, "Here's 10,000 docs. Here's another 50,000. Here's 100. Or they could just do a huge document
[30:20]dump on day 30th, December 19th. That's up to them. The law does not require them to do it one way or the other. The other thing though to know is again whatever we get on December 19th or, you know, between now and December 19th, Pam
[30:32]Bondi needs to be questioned at every opportunity. How much of the total Epstein files have you produced? And how much of the total Epstein files have you withheld? What percent? or at least give
[30:42]us a rough estimate and we'll see if she's willing and able to answer that. I doubt it. I think she'll probably just say we've made productions and we've made withholdings based on the law and that'll be it. But that'll be a burning
[30:54]question. You know, if they release 150,000 pages on December 19th, you and I and the world will just Jesse, we'll have no way of knowing is this 98% of the file, is this 53% of the file? And
[31:05]that's a question that I I believe she will be posed um consistently until we get an answer. And if a majority of it is duplicative of what we've already
[31:14]seen, the response from uh the public is going to be quite loud to say the least. Uh and yeah, >> I think the fundamental thing that the public is having trouble accepting and
[31:25]which I I am a this is where I am also is that only Epstein and Maxwell, they're the only wrongdoers are the only people who worthy of criminal prosecution here. And I don't know, I
[31:37]wish I could say otherwise, but I don't know that we're ever going to get a satisfying answer in prosecution as to who else might be involved. I should note the statute of limitations on child interstate sex trafficking crimes
[31:49]federally. Essentially, there is no statute of limitations. So, it is theoretically possible if they can show that some other person was involved in the interstate movement of a person for
[31:58]purposes of child sex abuse. There could be prosecutions. I mean, I'll give you just a quick example. Golain Maxwell's indictment which came down in 2020 charged her with conduct that was
[32:09]primarily 1994 to 1997. One of her arguments which she lost both at the trial court and on appeal in the second circuit was that's too late. The statute of limitations should have been 5 or 10 years. And both the district court and
[32:21]the court of appeals said no the law has changed and you can be charged in 2020 for something you did in the 1990s if it's interstate federal sex trafficking of a minor. So, I don't want to get
[32:32]expectations up, but I do want to note that that's theoretically still possible. >> Ellie, first of all, great analysis on this. Um, I I have definitely a better picture of what we can expect. I think
[32:42]we all do. Um, I feel for you. I feel for you because you know when this is going to be released, you're going to be chained to the CNN desk with [laughter] either a computer or printouts. Ellie,
[32:52]every five minutes, what did you learn? What's new? What's new? So I I can give you all a little BTS as the kids call it a little behind the scenes. You know, there's a constant call now starting now
[33:02]at CNN for like can you be ready in case the Epstein files drop? Can you be ready? Can you be on standby? Epstein files. So we don't know like the rest of you like it could come at any moment. It could be an all one shot but but it will
[33:13]be close to Christmas. Uh I think you know the the bulk of it I think. So you know listen last I'm going to give you a trivia question, Jesse. Do you remember what case was consuming you and me and
[33:23]media all through last year's Christmas? This will make it seem like forever ago. >> Was it not? Did he right? No, it wasn't. >> No, no, no. Well, did he had happened, but it wasn't. There was a brand new
[33:35]story that h the actual event happened in early December and then the arrest and all the court stuff was right through Christmas. >> Tells you something about my job that I don't remember. >> You'll kick yourself. It's too easy.
[33:46]Luigi Manion. >> Oh my gosh. Yeah, of course. I could have forgot that. The shooting was I want I believe early December, but I just I remember where I was for Christmas break. I don't you know I don't I'm Jewish. I don't celebrate Christmas, but we went away. I just
[33:57]remember doing hits from a little makeshift thing on Luigi court appearances and Luigi being flown in in the helicopter and all that. So that's still going too. >> All right. Well, until everybody can
[34:07]read whatever files are released, come at the king. When you come at the king, everybody Ellie Hoden, thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it. You were fantastic. >> Thanks, Jess. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon. >> That's all we have for you right now
[34:18]here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcast. You can follow me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll
[34:29]speak to you next time. >> [music]