[0:06]Welcome to Extra Minutes, the 60 Minutes podcast. I'm Tara Brown. This is my producer and friend, Sammy Taylor. >> Hi. Tonight we're talking about
[0:16]Zorro Ranch in New Mexico, a fascinating story coming out again of the Epstein files, um but the forgotten link in this terrible story.
[0:27]>> Really heartbreaking, actually, to work on stories like this and and to hear from so many people that have been so affected by what went on there. And the fact, I
[0:37]guess, that Zorro has kind of been the forgotten piece in all of this, the ignored, you know, piece, I think. >> It has been. It It's a fascinating place because of its isolation. I mean, it
[0:47]strikes a sort of fear into your heart when you see uh the size of the place, but the fact that it's in the middle of nowhere. So, it's like a 7 1/2 thousand acre
[0:59]um property, uh a massive house. >> Yeah, huge. >> Palatial, but quite over the top. >> Mhm. >> Um and then just surrounded by desert
[1:10]>> Yep. >> and mountain range. So, it's in the in near Santa Fe, south of Santa Fe, and um and this two-lane highway that goes past it, and that's it. So, if you're taken
[1:21]there, you don't want to be there. As as we say in the story, it's it's a terrifying place. >> We know that Jeffrey Epstein bought the property for Zorro Ranch in the early 1990s, kind of under the guise of it
[1:33]being a a hub for science and and scientists. And that was his purpose. But when you look at where it is situated and just how isolated it is
[1:44]from literally everything else, it's um miles and miles and miles off the closest highway. And uh there's so much just desert around the property, and it
[1:56]really is feels as though it's in the middle of nowhere. >> Yeah. It absolutely does, which mirrors his other properties in many ways, too, which if not completely isolated, were
[2:06]very fortified. I think there's some suggestion, too, that in a very calculating way, Epstein chose New Mexico because its laws were quite weak
[2:15]in terms of sex trafficking. Uh I think they've only only fairly recently accepted that as a term, as a crime. So, you know, it was sort of
[2:26]this place where it's possibly not fair to call it the Wild, Wild West, but legally, perhaps, um that you know, it was a little bit
[2:37]behind, a little more lax, not that I'm not saying that they would say fair game at all. What I'm saying is that they perhaps did not have the
[2:48]legislative powers to pursue him, and he seemed to know that. >> Well, even just the fact that when Jeffrey Epstein returned there in 2010, he had to register as a sex offender in
[2:58]the state of New Mexico. That alone. >> That was a bonus for him. >> The footage, I think, as well, that we have of Zorro now, as it stands, it is so stark seeing what is a ginormous
[3:10]house, huge property, massive mansion, but it it looks tiny when it's in the middle of this desert. You know, that that it almost looks like it's small in comparison to the fact that you've got
[3:20]these thousands of acres around of of just dirt, essentially. >> Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's always good to have a drone on hand, isn't it? Bird's-eye view of the place. It looks kind of insignificant, but it's just a
[3:32]real anomaly, as well. Um it's it You know, just just doesn't seem to fit in that landscape. >> I suppose the people that we've spoken to, as well, have perhaps made
[3:44]assumptions about why Epstein chose Zorro to to purchase, and and why he used that property as as much as he did. And and a lot of them have said that it it must
[3:54]have something to do with the isolation. It was really so it is so far away from any town center. It's a bit of a trek to to get out there. And as you said, you know, for somebody
[4:06]that didn't want to be there, it would be really frightening and terrifying to be stuck with no way to leave. >> That's right. I mean, it's been described, I guess, as an inland island
[4:16]almost, it's that remote. And look, fits the pattern, doesn't it? I mean, you know, we can we've seen from the other properties how fortified they are, that here was a person who was very
[4:28]happy to do whatever he wanted behind closed doors. And sadly, what he wanted was a lot of abuse and harm to others, unfortunately.
[4:38]I mean, the the former attorney general talks about in the early '90s when Epstein first purchased the property of noting eccentric visitors, eccentric
[4:50]scientists, and others who'd be flown who'd be flown in. So, there's sort of this sort of madness about maniacal madness. What's going on? And we've since learned through the Epstein files
[5:01]discussions of of experiments and wanting to create a baby farm where eugenics are at play. >> Yeah.
[5:13]>> Designer babies are being created. Looking for that perfect gene pool, whatever that might I mean, it all sounds mad. >> It's awful. It's really bizarre reading
[5:23]those emails between Epstein and and other people talking about designer baby farms and human cloning projects. There's one email that we've read where
[5:35]he basically refers to somebody puts to him a a pitch deck essentially for a project that is about human cloning and and about designer babies as as they call
[5:47]it. Um and he replies that you know, he's very happy to invest but anonymously. He doesn't want to be seen to to lead that. That was yeah, strange to read. >> Yeah, and
[5:58]again, it's the the different sides of Jeffrey Epstein, isn't it? He was very happy to mingle with the the science crowd, the nerds as they were sometimes
[6:08]referred to. Um he rubbed shoulders with you know, very bright people and seemed to want to be a financial supporter of science, which is
[6:19]all great, right? Um but on the other side, you've got well, don't tell anybody about it, but yes, I'm interested in this. Um >> Now we know so much about these awful abuses that have happened at Zorro that
[6:30]it was kind of um hidden behind, I guess, a a a ruse that it was this place for science instead is is quite strange to think about.
[6:40]>> That's yeah, it's strange, but it isn't in the world of Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, the most recent information to come out of the Epstein files in regards to Zorro
[6:51]Ranch is a terrible allegation that two young women were killed on the ranch, strangled, and their bodies buried somewhere near the ranch on the orders
[7:02]of Jeffrey Epstein and his girlfriend at that time, Ghislaine Maxwell. Um That that's shocked the world. >> Yeah, and I think that tip is a large
[7:13]reason behind why this new search has has happened. Um so much information. We spoke with the head of the Truth Commission in New Mexico, Andrea Romero,
[7:25]um about the work that she's doing there, and she mentioned that you know, there's 7,000 instances of Zorro mentioned in the Epstein files. Tens of
[7:36]thousands of instances of New Mexico being being raised in the Epstein files. But that tip in particular, I think, has been a real catalyst for the authorities in New Mexico to reopen their
[7:48]investigation and finally search the property. >> Well, that's right. I mean, they that allegation has in fact sparked a a double-pronged criminal investigation. So, they're they're looking to
[7:59]prosecute. And this is one state in the United States that is taking this very seriously and and working hard to do it. Um, you know, I think they the out of
[8:11]frustration for the local authorities, local enforcement authorities, is that they were looking at Jeffrey Epstein back in 2019. They were told to stand down
[8:21]by federal authorities. So, how that came about is a a long and twisted road as it all seems to be with Jeffrey Epstein, but the attorney general only spotted in
[8:33]2018 that there were victims alleging abuse against Epstein from New Mexico. In a court case that was happening in Florida. You know, he was kind of all
[8:44]bemused by this. Why don't we know about we haven't heard from anybody? We've not been told to investigate, you know, not this hasn't come across our desk. So, he starts pursuing it.
[8:53]Um, and starting to investigate underage These girls are underage. They're minors. And, um, and very much has the will
[9:04]to thoroughly go through this until he's told to stand down by those federal authorities. Um, which he only finds out now
[9:14]because of the the the Epstein file dump. So, he's he's actually uncovering material that relates to his office, uh, which was denied to him at the time.
[9:24]He describes it as a cover-up. Uh, and you know, you know, the big question, of course, still is why, and I guess the answer speaks to power and
[9:33]influence, money, but that former attorney general expresses deep frustration in our story because it mirrors what has happened around the country. It's what mirror it mirrors
[9:45]what happened in Florida back in 2008. They had him. They had him. And then they created this crazy wonderful for him
[9:55]sweetheart deal where he has immunity against prosecu- federal prosecution as do his co-conspirators. Uh they they let him go uh to abuse however many more
[10:06]um to hurt so many more people. >> Yeah. It does feel like a failure I suppose on on so many levels that he was allowed to get away with this for
[10:17]for so long. Um and every time like in Florida in 2008 or New Mexico in 2018 when there's an opportunity for
[10:28]accountability and and to be um prosecuted for his alleged crimes um that opportunity has been you know taken away from the authorities for a
[10:38]variety of different reasons but um it does one of the things that Hector spoke with us about is that ultimately then the failure is for the victims and the survivors. That you know they've
[10:50]never been given the opportunity to to see their abuser brought to justice for for what he did to them. >> Yeah, that's right. I mean Hector Balderas the former attorney general um
[11:00]has said that he finds it appalling that even today local authorities are waiting on the feds to hand over the files to give them the information. You know.
[11:12]>> We're 7 years from Epstein's death. You know, it's and the fact that the property wasn't searched at the time and is only being searched now in in early 2026 is pretty astounding.
[11:22]>> Preliminary searches have started surveying the land and we're all waiting to find out what those results are.
[11:31]Uh that imaging needs to be assessed and I guess then further work done. >> Yeah. >> Uh, they also sent in cadaver dogs. >> Yeah, we know from what's come out about
[11:41]the search so far is that they deployed drones to take imaging of the property at huge amount obviously of property and that there were four cadaver dogs
[11:51]that were you know on the property looking for evidence there. We don't have any information about what they might or might not have found. Um, but there's a a lot of
[12:01]property for them to to search and a and a lot to go through. >> And what was really curious is that all this time later all these years later Jeffrey Epstein's personal
[12:12]artifacts if you like were still in the house so diaries letters maybe even videos who knows but um so there
[12:23]you know again local authorities were saying please search this house seize the ranch let's find the evidence well that evidence >> It's been sitting there for It's been sitting there >> all these years. We are yet to to know what it will
[12:35]reveal but I think that's all been going going gone through now with a very fine tooth comb. Yeah. >> And how frustrating that must be for people like the former attorney general
[12:46]Hector Balderas and and so many other people that were working in 2018 2019 you know to to start this investigation
[12:55]at least in New Mexico and and were told we've got it essentially by the feds you know the FBI said that they would handle it and they did not handle it. >> That's right and I mean I think we we
[13:06]need to say that in handing over that material to the federal authorities that was done in good faith because legally the federal
[13:17]agencies had greater power had a greater chance of bringing prosecutions to bear so I think Hector was working in the name of justice. >> Absolutely. >> Not like I'm too lazy Good, I'm glad
[13:28]you've got it. Take it away. Um and and believed that the federal authorities were as interested in justice at that time as he was. He since discovers in the Epstein files that
[13:38]that's not the case. They've actively >> And what he told us as well is that he's no longer the attorney general of of New Mexico. Um he works at a college now in in northern New Mexico
[13:49]um as the president there, but uh he's the current um attorney general's office and and the authorities in New Mexico are still waiting on that information.
[14:00]Things still aren't being passed across, you know, so many years after the fact. Um that must be, yeah, incredibly frustrating for everybody involved and and putting a real kind of
[14:12]stop to pushing this further forward and and getting the answers that they need. Yeah. >> And the world has been waiting, hasn't it, for uh who next? Who Who will we see
[14:23]prosecuted in this? We We accept and we understand that there was a sex trafficking ring. We know that uh there are other people involved and the and the question remains, why have they not been prosecuted? Why have they at least
[14:35]not been investigated? Here you have a state that wants to do that, the only one in the country it would seem that is willing and able to
[14:45]actually investigate and prosecute. >> Mhm. >> So, something great could still come out of >> Absolutely. >> New Mexico, and that's is certainly the promise uh from the truth commission. If
[14:56]you've done something wrong, uh we will find you. >> Yeah. And I think that there's great hope in that, too, for victims and survivors and and people that are waiting on on this still to be
[15:07]addressed. We spoke with Shante Davies um as a part of our story, and she's an incredible woman who has been through so much, and um Zorro was one of the places when she was
[15:19]uh caught up in Jeffrey Epstein's web, essentially, from 2001 to 2005. Zorro was one of the places that she was abused most frequently.
[15:29]Um, and she she told us her story, and I know you've spoken to so many survivors of of Jeffrey Epstein over the years. I suppose what was it that struck you most
[15:40]about what Chaunté had to tell us about Zorro, but about the impact that this has had on her life? >> I think it was her candor, really, and
[15:49]that she is willing to show how devastated she still is. It was really heart-wrenching because you know, and and you will have seen in
[16:00]the story that that she thinks that Jeffrey Epstein kept his promise that she'd be nothing without him. And that's a really sad thing to hear, and a
[16:10]really courageous thing, I think, for her to admit to. Um, but she is a shattered human being, and um
[16:18]and you can and I I I think she you know, so sadly, but effectively, showed what so many of the victims must
[16:28]be feeling, and wasn't wasn't frightened to share it. So, I think that stands out. >> And then I think that there's some apprehension there from her. She really wants there to be a great outcome from
[16:40]this truth commission, from this new investigation. I think for people like Chaunté, she feels that she's been let down so many times before. There is some hope
[16:50]there, um, but she's you know, she's not sure. She's not 100% kind of certain that that it will have a have that great result. >> I think you're being very positive. I don't think she has much faith at all,
[17:02]and you can understand why. >> yeah. And and I think that that's something that, um, Andrea Romero and Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury both spoke to us about, that, you know, there
[17:12]are so many people working in New Mexico now to ensure that this is taken very seriously. That all of the things that weren't done so many years ago are done.
[17:22]That the property is searched. That all of the files are, you know, well looked through and and that every allegation, every tip, every claim is followed up
[17:33]because it hadn't been for for so many years. These These things were ignored and you now have both a criminal probe and a truth commission that is working towards um making sure that this is
[17:45]thoroughly investigated, that it's taken seriously this time around. >> Yeah, and all eyes are sort of on it because it also has the support of many in Congress. Uh so, while the federal
[17:55]agencies in terms of law enforcement uh have been very slow to the party to provide files and uh to even conduct investigations like New Mexico is
[18:05]proposing, there are predominantly women in Congress really pushing hard for it. And um and so they're being vocal and
[18:16]the intent is well known. So, I guess if there is a chance of other people being prosecuted, getting to the bottom of exactly what went on
[18:27]here and who was involved, uh New Mexico is the place to be, it would seem. >> And has the people to push for it. You know, we spoke with Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury who has said it many
[18:39]times on the floor of of Congress, but also to us that she wants Epstein files to turn into Epstein trials. You know, that there are co-conspirators that they are looking to prosecute and they want
[18:51]to make sure that that happens. >> They've even drawn up a list. Yeah, actually drawn up a list. They haven't shared it with us, yes, but they have drawn up a list. >> Yep. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thanks, Tara. >> And thank you so much for watching. You
[19:03]can catch our story on 60 Minutes Australia on YouTube or 9Now. >> Mhm.