[0:00]Tonight, the bombshell files about Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. [music] >> These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that [music]
[0:09]President Trump did nothing wrong. >> More than 3,000 emails and images [music] published and now a demand from victims for all files to be [music]
[0:19]released. The US president accuses Democrats of trying to lay a trap after an email suggested [music] he spent hours with one of the pedophile's victims. >> We want to see justice. We're not quite
[0:31]sure what that's [music] what that looks like and maybe just understanding what's really going on. >> So, what else is in those files? Our team [music] has been pouring through
[0:41]them and we'll bring you the latest. Plus, I'll hear the reaction of one of Jeffrey Epstein's [music] victims. Also coming up, the most dangerous route to Europe and the migrants who [music]
[0:52]would rather drown than return to their country will have a special report. >> Throw me in the water. Let me die, but
[1:01]I'm not going back to Sudan or Libya. >> A lot of desperation and urging us. They think we've got something to do with it. They're urging us to take them to to
[1:10]Europe. >> Plus, the cannibal [music] solar storm. They had cancelled a NASA rocket launch and unleashed a stunning display of the
[1:20]Northern Lights. Hello, good evening and welcome to the
[1:32]program. A hoax and a trap. That's how the US president has described the decision by Democratic politicians to release select emails sent by the
[1:42]pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. In the email sent between 2011 and 2019, the billionaire wrote that Donald Trump spent hours at his house with one of his
[1:52]victims. The response from Republicans and the White House were swift. Thousands more files released. Then
[2:00]accusations of a smear campaign. And that's been the president's defense strategy all along. He has denied any
[2:09]knowledge or involvement of the sex trafficking operation, admitting only that they were friends until Epstein tried to steal staff from his Mara Lago resort.
[2:20]>> I think that was one of the people. Yeah, he he stole her. And by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know. None whatsoever. >> I haven't been overly interested in it.
[2:31]You know, it's something it's a hoax that's been built up way beyond proportion. I can say this, those files were run by the worst scum on earth.
[2:42]>> Well, that was Donald Trump back in the summer. So, what did he know and when? What new information is emerging from this new document dump? And what do victims want to happen next? Lots to get
[2:54]into tonight. Well, let's get started with our first report from our US correspondent, James Matthews. >> Hard work and dedication. It was another
[3:04]November day outside the US capital. Inside there was business unusual. >> This just doesn't make sense. >> A big story just got bigger with fresh
[3:16]revelations on the Epstein affair. Yet more notes on a scandal. Yet again, they cite the president in Jeffrey Epstein emails released by the House Oversight
[3:27]Committee. One from 2011 to his co-acused Gileain Maxwell reads, "I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't
[3:36]barked is Trump, a victim named Redacted spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned, police chief,
[3:45]etc. I'm 75% there." Gileian Maxwell replied, "I have been thinking about that." Epstein emailed the writer Michael Wolf about a Trump media
[3:56]appearance. The author replied to him, "If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially
[4:07]generates a positive benefit for you. Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him, generating a debt." >> On the congressional committee investigating the Epstein affair,
[4:18]Trump's political opponents say it's political dynamite. Our leadership here is implicated in the largest sex trafficking scandal in the history, not only of the United States, but
[4:28]potentially in the planet. And so this email, especially the 2011 email from Jeffrey Epste to Gain Maxwell, directly references Trump. It directly talks
[4:39]about how he spent time with one of the victims of his se sex trafficking crimes at Jeffrey Epstein's house. >> Donald Trump was a friend of Jeffrey
[4:49]Epstein before they fell out. The name redacted from the new emails was unredacted by the Trump administration. They named her as the late Virginia
[4:58]Duay, Andrews accuser. This was a White House standing by their man. >> These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump
[5:09]did nothing wrong. And this email you refer to with the name of a victim that was unredacted now and has since been reported on in this room. So I will go ahead and say it. Virginia Guy. She
[5:21]maintained that there was nothing inappropriate she ever witnessed. That President Trump was always extremely professional and friendly to her. >> Survivors of Jeffrey Epstein have long
[5:31]demanded a full release of relevant files for full public scrutiny. A lawyer fighting their case gave her latest views on the latest development. The
[5:41]emails are from Jeffrey Epstein himself pointing a finger of accusation at Donald Trump. Uh really from the grave. >> Among 20,000 documents newly released.
[5:52]Andrew Mountbatton Windsor appears to get a mention in response to a newspaper planning to run a story on Epstein, his actions, and associates. Someone called the Duke emailed Galain Maxwell and
[6:04]wrote, "Hey there, what's all this? I don't know anything about this. You must say so, please. This has nothing to do with me. I can't take any more of this.
[6:15]>> I wish I'd never met him in the first place. >> The documents appear to show Lord Mandolson, former US ambassador, was in touch with Epstein in 2016. In November that year, Epstein emailed him writing,
[6:26]"63 years old. You made it." Mandlesson replied, "Just. I have decided to extend my life by spending more of it in the US." Epstein wrote back in the Donald
[6:38]White House. >> It is the story that stalks Donald Trump. These capital corridors echo to a near constant cycle of Epstein
[6:48]revelations. And yet they are matched by White House denials that for now at least keep a distance between scandal and a sitting president.
[6:59]But in this scandal, there is a distance to run. James Matthews, Sky News in Washington. >> Well, we'll get more from James in a moment. First though, let's head to Mark
[7:10]Stone who's been taking a closer look at the documents released today. Mark, thousands of documents. I know you and your team have been going through them. What else have you found? >> Yeah, I mean honestly that there are so
[7:22]many uh documents. It's been kind of overwhelming I think in newsrooms around the world and I imagine in the White House as well. Uh they have been looking through them as much as they can perhaps
[7:32]uh in um Buckingham Palace as well. Uh Peter Mandlesson's home. I imagine he's been trying to access them as well just to see uh what uh is in these documents.
[7:43]Look, I mean this is we've got one uh file here which is within a file within a file within a file which gives you a sense of how many there are. This is one of the files here. There are there are
[7:54]emails. Uh there are I mean some of it is less relevant than other parts. Parts of these documents are actually just um uh scans of of newspaper articles, scans
[8:05]of books that were written about the uh the issue. Um but within them and it's kind of hard to find them. You can see here uh lots of different files. I open another file uh and you can see within
[8:16]them if the computer will work there are so this is a book that was written filthy rich about uh Jeffrey Epstein. So some of it is more relevant than other bits and the interesting bits take a
[8:26]little while uh to find and look be beyond what James outlined in his report there. There is really very very interesting stuff related first of all to to Peter Mandlesson clearly a UK
[8:37]interest there uh this email uh between uh Peter Mandlesson and Jeffrey Epstein an exchange an email exchange November 2016. Now, that's important because it
[8:48]is much later than we previously knew. Mandlesen and Epstein had been in touch. It was it was publicly known that they'd been in touch in 2010, but not as
[8:58]recently as 2016. And as James said, they discussed the prospect of Donald in the White House. Peter Mandelson writes to Epstein, "Donald, will he get there?"
[9:08]This was two days before the 2016 election, which we know Mandal uh we know that um Trump won. And then they they talk about somebody named only as Andrew. And Mandlesson intriguingly
[9:19]writes, "Yes, without Andrew, it would it would not have gone nuclear. Without Andrew, it would not have gone nuclear." Now, we don't know precisely what that refers to. I I've been in touch with
[9:30]Lord Mandlesson today. I've messaged him. I've asked him uh for if he's got any statement. He's seen the message, but he has not yet uh replied. uh Andrew Mambbatton Windsor, formerly known as
[9:41]Prince Andrew, uh and Gileain Maxwell. They are all uh mentioned uh in these emails. Uh fascinating insight too between Galileain Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Of course, uh they were um they
[9:53]were together. They were a pair. Uh and what we get a sense of is the sort of they kind of scrabbling with how to deal with both the legal storm that it was
[10:03]unfolding and the the media storm that was unfolding around them. There's an email from January 2015 uh where uh Epstein writes to Galain Maxwell. Uh
[10:14]they need uh and they need me to say that I was not aware of massage uh with Andrew in my house. Uh these things have to stay along with meeting and uh
[10:25]rebutting those allegations. I need it ASAP. So, a glimpse there into the private emails between uh Galileain Maxwell, now of course in an American
[10:35]prison for her part in all of this, and Jeffrey Epstein uh who died in prison uh back in 2019. >> Lots of uh work underway quite clearly, Mark. Thank you. Well, let's bring in
[10:47]James now. And quite clear what we saw today, James, is a political battle ongoing uh which has led to the publication of these documents. >> Hi, Anna. Yeah, this, make no mistake,
[10:58]is a difficult uh episode for Donald Trump. Increasingly difficult, no doubt. The story, it drips new detail on a rolling basis. It has done for months.
[11:08]Incrementally, it gets closer to the president. His his opponents already see guilt by association and they are convinced by that. Uh there are many in
[11:20]Republican ranks who too have serious suspicions. Trump's defense thus far, as you said, has been, "Look, this is all a Democrat hoax, and he's dismissed this
[11:31]contact with Epstein as a long ago friendship with a man he now labels a creep and a pedophile." His defense doesn't necessarily get any easier with these emails, these fresh documents.
[11:42]Interestingly, uh there's no denial from the White House of the email that says Trump was in Epstein's house, Epstein's house with an Epstein victim. Their
[11:54]response was to name that victim, Virginia. Her name was mispronounced at the White House. They make the point that she didn't have a problem with Trump. He was
[12:04]professional and friendly to her. But, you know, if we're now saying and agreeing that Trump is placed in Epstein's house with a victim for ours, then if nothing else, that raises
[12:16]questions of its own beyond him being well behaved. She was a victim of sex trafficking. Did he know that? Why didn't he know that? How could he not
[12:26]have known that? What did they discuss? What did he think a young girl was doing in that set of circumstances in that
[12:36]situation? It's interesting the White House chose to name her uh in you know, Virginia Giuffre, her family have been very vocal uh about Donald Trump
[12:46]themselves. They've had a lot to say about the Trump administration and what they have said is release all the Epstein file. So new fresh problems for
[12:57]Donald Trump. No doubt politically it is a story that continues to move. A new Democrat Anna is due to be sworn into the House of Representatives. That will
[13:06]give them the numbers to get this petition over the line. A petition calling for the release of the full Epstein file. So that will be uh another
[13:17]political difficulty for Donald Trump and generally in this story. The more we learn, the closer it all does get to the president. >> Yes, a much delayed swearing in of course. James, thank you very much
[13:28]indeed. Well, a little earlier I spoke to Lisa Phillips who survived grooming and abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. She told me that she and others like her want full justice and for all the documents
[13:39]to be released. How difficult is it for you every time this come up that you have to reconfront what you went through >> for the survivors? It's very
[13:49]traumatizing to hear any new information. A lot of things are very triggering. >> And what do you make of of what you've heard today?
[14:01]>> I'm I'm deeply upset. It wasn't what I was expecting. Um, I'm just I'm saddened.
[14:15]I don't really know how to comment on it except for it's just it's upsetting and very confusing. >> Well, clearly the uh the White House has said that the first emails released by
[14:25]the Democrats were deliberately selective and chosen to smear the president. Then we have thousands more released by the Republicans. But as far
[14:34]as you're concerned, is any release of information, you know, progress in in what you ultimately want, which is transparency for victims? >> Well, of course, every information
[14:46]that's released gets closer to finding out a little bit more of the truth. So, we have to go through all of this to figure out what's really going on. So, I absolutely believe I mean, it's not easy
[14:56]to to hear and it's not easy to connect the dots, but I think it's very important that, you know, they're being released. >> How far from the truth are we?
[15:06]>> Very far. I think we're very far from the truth, but we're getting closer. I just think there's a lot that's going to be coming out over the next few months. >> So, what ultimately do you want to see?
[15:18]>> Well, we want to see justice. We're not quite sure what that's what that looks like. and maybe just understanding what's really going on. Um, and what's most important is also just protecting
[15:28]the survivors that names are being released with the information. That's I think that's the hardest part. Um, is the survivors really understanding the impact that
[15:40]that has on them, retraumatizing them, and making sure the information is is correct as well. >> I know you spoke out after Virginia Dra
[15:50]did. Why did you decide to speak out? >> The only reason why I chose to speak out was because of Virginia's story and I
[16:01]felt like it was important to stand up for her and believe her because so many people don't believe survivors. That's the number one thing that
[16:11]survivors go through is that people don't believe them. And I'm here to change that narrative. I'm here to say no matter how hard it is and how much I
[16:21]have to tell my own story, stories like Virginia's are very very important and she was trafficked to many powerful people. That's not okay.
[16:32]>> And in terms of your own story, as retraumatizing as it is, would you mind me asking where you were when you first met Jeffrey Epstein? >> I happened to meet Jeffrey on his
[16:42]island. I wasn't supposed to be there. I wasn't brought on the plane. I was brought by boat from another close island uh close uh island close by and
[16:53]um another young girl brought me thinking, "Oh, this is a great guy. He's a mentor. You know, he's done so much for me. He got my visa to work in the United States." She was Eastern European
[17:03]like so many victims were. And um just happened to go with her. I don't believe she was expecting um Jeffrey to abuse me that evening. Um
[17:14]but for some reason he took a liking to me. Um during dinner dur sorry during dinner he got to know me and asked me a lot of questions about my family and I
[17:25]had actually grown up in England for the first few years of my life. So um yeah, we found it interesting and the conversation went from there to you know
[17:36]your ambitions and aspirations and your goals which made me feel kind of like oh I'm special and I felt um safe in his presence.
[17:48]>> So were you saying you were abused the first the first night you met him? Well, I was there for the entire day on that island and then after dinner later on that evening is when uh one of the other
[17:59]young girls uh knocked on the door and said that Jeffrey was ready for his massage and as you know this is Jeffrey's MMO. He had massages with the young girls and the massages turned into assault.
[18:11]>> And how did you feel after it? >> Oh, horrible. Uh, I think for months for months after I I was I blamed myself wondering like
[18:22]what did I what did I do wrong or you know why why did he do that to me? I thought I was the only one. I didn't know at the time the other girls on the
[18:32]island were also um victims of the same type of abuse. I know you have a podcast now speaking to survivors often about the complexity
[18:42]of abuse because you you did keep in contact with with Jeffrey Epstein over subsequent years. >> Yes. And I wanted to explain why. A lot of people don't understand why would you
[18:53]go back, but a lot of times it's a grooming process where they reel you in, you know, like I remember what you said on the island. I can help you out now. you know, these things that when you're
[19:03]a young girl and you're entering the world and and building your career, a lot of times people help you and good people help you and you don't really know the difference between a good
[19:13]person helping you and and a bad person that has um you know, evil intentions, so to speak. >> And did you ever see Donald Trump in any
[19:23]of those interactions with Jeffrey Epstein? >> I've I've never seen him. There was talk of survivors producing their own list of perpetrators.
[19:34]Is that still possible? And will more people be brought down by this in your view? >> Well, this list that I spoke about on Capitol Hill was a list that myself, a
[19:46]few of the survivors, not all of them, uh, and the attorneys have been compiling over the last few years. So there's a very long list of names that were seen or um
[19:57]or uh some of these victims had experiences with. So there's always been a list. I was just trying to put some pressure
[20:07]on the DOJ to say, "Okay, you're keeping this list hidden and you're not revealing anything to the public, but also remember that we know who's on the
[20:18]list as well." So, I think that was a little push to them and I think it's been working. >> Is the Donald Trump question holding up
[20:27]the release of more information that you and others so desperately want to see? >> We desperately want to see
[20:41]more. We desperately want to see the files and the information that's out there. Yes, of course. >> Full disclosure. >> At full disclosure, we won't we need
[20:52]full transparency of what's going on. Everybody wants that. I do believe the focus is so set on Trump that we're not really getting to the
[21:02]other issues and the other problems, the other perpetrators, the other enablers, because the focus is so on him. So, this is what I've been speaking out about for months now is that we need we need to
[21:13]know more information about others. But things have come to light now that now I'm just a little confused on, you know, what's really going on.
[21:23]>> And are you hopeful that you will get that full transparency? And if so, would that help for you for for closure for what you went through? >> Well, I'm always hopeful. That's what we
[21:34]want. That's what we're working on. And us survivors are working on quite a few things in the background. And I believe
[21:42]that we will start getting more answers. Just a lot of times when things are revealed like this, it kind of throws a monkey wrench and things, right? Cuz
[21:53]some things are like shocking and we didn't sus we didn't expect we didn't expect what was revealed today to be
[22:03]revealed. Lisa Phillips talking to me a short time ago. Well, let's bring in Gloria Orred who is a lawyer representing Epstein victims. She joins me now from New York.
[22:14]Thank you very much indeed for joining us. 27 victims I think you were representing. No doubt you heard what Lisa Phillips was saying there about
[22:22]this retraumatizing process as you seek transparency and as she put it full justice. >> That's correct. And uh you know she's
[22:33]very brave to speak out and uh not all of the victims are willing to speak out all the survivors because many of them
[22:42]have gone from victims to survivors and some to the highest level which is fighters for change. But right now I agree with her that survivors are
[22:53]seeking transparency, the whole truth and a measure of justice. And there is apparently a political battle going on uh in which you know there is there has
[23:05]to be a battle in order to obtain the release of all of the files of the Department of Justice. By the way, there
[23:14]shouldn't have to be a vote in Congress. There doesn't have to be a vote in Congress. the United States Department of Justice could just release all of the
[23:23]files, but apparently uh we're just going to have to fight in order to obtain them. Today, there were some new uh emails that were released in the
[23:34]thousands of pages that have been dribbling in. Uh and it's interesting because uh we see uh an email from
[23:44]Jeffrey Epstein uh that indicates that uh Mr. Trump was in the house allegedly with Virginia Guay, meaning in Jeffrey
[23:54]Epstein's home. If we look back at was at what Ms. Maxwell told the deputy attorney general when she was interviewed by him, Todd Blanch, who
[24:05]formerly uh represented uh Mr. Trump when he was Mr. Trump uh and the uh subject of a criminal uh trial which he
[24:17]ultimately was convicted but he's top lynch now the deputy attorney general interviewed uh Miss Maxwell and she indicated that uh Mr. Trump had never
[24:28]done anything inappropriate and she did not recall putting that in quotes because recall is what she said uh Mr. Trump ever being in Jeffrey
[24:39]Epstein's house. So, uh, that doesn't mean he was never there. It doesn't mean he was there. It doesn't mean that if he was there, uh, that he did anything that
[24:50]was wrong or inappropriate or criminal. But having said that, it's interesting that Jeffrey Epste says that he was in his house uh, and that for several
[25:01]hours. And it turns out that the victim whose name was redacted, the White House said it was with Virginia Guay, who then of course in her book said he didn't do
[25:11]anything inappropriate. Trump didn't. Uh but we don't know why she said that. Uh maybe that was the truth. Uh maybe it
[25:21]wasn't. Maybe she was in fear. We don't know and we'll never know because she's deceased. >> Well, certainly Caroline Levit uh White House press secretary picked up on that point. the Virginia Jafrey said he had
[25:32]done nothing wrong. Couldn't have been nicer, in fact, in her any interaction she'd had with him. But that that speaks, does it not, to the complaint of the White House about the selective
[25:42]choosing by Democrats of the initial emails they released that Donald Trump had spent several hours in Epstein's house with a victim, redacted. The redacted person was, as you pointed out,
[25:53]Virginia Defra, who said Donald Trump had done nothing wrong. So, you know, why did they specifically pick bits and not do the rest of it? So was it right for the rest of the thousands of
[26:02]documents to be released in your view for that all important context especially when it pertains to the US president? >> Well, of course I can't speak for members of Congress and why they decided
[26:13]to release what they released. Having said that, of course, if they had all of the Epstein files that the House
[26:23]Oversight Committee is seeking, which they don't have at this point, then that could all be released and then everyone could figure out the context if it's
[26:33]possible to do so by what's in the investigative files. But because they don't have all the files, I mean, whose fault is that? That's the Department of
[26:44]Justice because they could release them at some point. Pam Bondi, the attorney general, said she would release them, but then there's been a change. They're
[26:54]not releasing them. Now, one member of Congress was uh asked to appear in the White House situation room with highlevel uh appointees of President
[27:05]Trump this afternoon. uh her vote as a Republican, you know, it appears they were trying to influence uh but it reportedly they weren't
[27:16]successful. Uh and this Republican member that was called into the situation room, very unusual by the way, for her to have been called there, is
[27:26]going to stick to her vote, which is to have all of the files released. And that's consistent with the polls in the United States where Republicans and
[27:36]Democrats agree that there must be transparency in the release of the files and that all of the Epstein files should be released. So words like smear and
[27:47]Democrats trying to single out. I mean really it's a deflection. Why not just release all >> of the files? >> Apologies. We're running out of time. You're right. It's a political battle.
[27:59]It's a fight for justice. There is more information to come out. We really, really appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. >> Thank you. Bye-bye. >> Well, this is the world. Next up, Alex Corford. [music] Special report from
[28:11]Europe's people smuggling front line, East Libya. Back with that. Heat. Heat.
[29:10]Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.
[30:04]Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.
[31:23]We are under uh Israeli military restrictions in terms of some of the things that we can film, but it's important to be in there.
[31:33]>> What a slow drive for the president as he approaches his golf club. >> Free wherever you get your news. I'm Mark Stone and I'm Sky correspondent
[31:45][music] based here in Washington DC. Welcome back to the world. We're going
[31:56]to focus now on the East African country described as Europe's smuggling front line, Libya. Over two weeks, our special correspondent met dozens of men, many of
[32:06]them from Sudan, as they waited to board overloaded dingies to cross the Mediterranean. An estimated 2,200 died or went missing trying to make that same
[32:16]crossing last year. And Libya is a key transit point for those seeking a new life in Europe. Migrants and refugees travel from East and West Africa, from
[32:27]the Middle East, and even as far a field as Bangladesh. There were 36,700 crossings on the central Mediterranean route in the first seven months of this
[32:36]year. Most headed for Malta, Italy, or Greece. Well, most people set sail from Eastern Libya controlled by a powerful militia leader who is keen to prove he
[32:47]can crack down on smugglers and their cargo. Alex Crawford went aboard one of his ships and witnessed the rescue of dozens of men who had been floating at sea for
[32:58]4 days with a broken engine. Many of them bore the wounds of the war they had fled. Their scars won't fade, but their hopes of reaching Europe did. Alex was
[33:09]there as they realized they would soon be locked up and sent back to one of the world's worst humanitarian crises. Well, we'll speak to Alex in a moment, but
[33:18]first, here is her special report. >> We're with the forces fighting people smugglers in East Libya and watch them trying to smash the gangs.
[33:29]We witness the boatloads risking their lives on new sea routes to Europe and see those who fled war taken back to Libya.
[33:40]>> This is the center of Europe's smuggling crisis and we're traveling to the heart of it. thinking
[33:47]from now to Brook. It's meant to be a transit point, a key area from where migrants will
[33:59]smugglers and go over to Europe. This is one of the main smuggler junctions. The streets are crowded with those wanting to go to Europe. They're
[34:10]all waiting to cross the sea, we're told. The officers are overwhelmed and many are set on going to Britain. >> You know the king. Wow. That's good. I
[34:21]hope I will be there soon. Right. >> The unusual access we've got to East Libya is to show us exactly this. The crowds ready to risk their lives on small boats with many telling us they're
[34:32]escaping war in Sudan. >> And when we go back, maybe we're going to die when we go back to Sudan.
[34:42]All is hungry. All is hungry. >> Here is not good. Sudan is not good. >> Where is God?
[34:53]>> Everything is in hand of God. If God say that you are going to make it to Europe, I think nothing will stop us. >> They live in miserable, cramped and dirty conditions, waiting all the time
[35:04]for the smuggler's call. It could change their life or end it. Some still very young have the scars of the wars they fled and tell us of their
[35:16]desperation to leave Libya. A big scar here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's paining, you know. So, we just need your help, guys. The situation here in this place that we live is too bad. We just need your help.
[35:26]>> I was interested in whether you're scared or frightened of the authorities here. >> Yeah, we are very scared. So the assault is uh is uh treating us very bad because
[35:37]now the assault can come and chase you from this house can beat you and can take you to jail. >> The sea operations in this part of the Mediterranean are all under the command
[35:49]of the youngest son of General Khalifa Hefta, the warlord ruling the whole of East Libya. The general wants to be seen as Europe's answer to the people
[35:59]smuggling business. So, the East Libyans are showing us their efforts intercepting illegal boats and taking them back to North Africa. It's a controversial policy which takes the
[36:09]crew into European search and rescue waters. We are tantalizingly close to Greece. You can see it through the haze, the sort of island about 40 miles off.
[36:21]And the East Libyan Coast Guard is waiting here to see if it can spot boats which will inevitably turn up which are trying to head to those islands. >> Our distance.
[36:33]>> It's the middle of the night when the call comes in. >> Yeah, we see you. We see you. That's why I stop the vessel and I point my search light on this port, approximate direction of this boat. The crew on a
[36:44]cargo vessel has raised the alarm, but the recovery of the dingy passengers is left to the East Libyans. >> There's an absolutely packed dingy full
[36:57]of people. Difficult to tell how many, but absolutely jam-packed. Legs hanging off. They're so full. They're saying, "Help me. Help me." as
[37:08]they were coming closer and they're trying to throw them a rope to to pull them in. >> Panic is setting in. Their engine is
[37:18]broken and they've been nearly 4 days at sea. >> They're exhausted and wet and desperately thirsty. Many appear dehydrated and very weak.
[37:37]The dingy is rapidly taking on water and minutes away from sinking. >> They don't realize yet, but they've just been pulled aboard a brigade ship run by
[37:48]one of the most powerful armed groups in the region. It's a TBZ ship under the command of General Heftar's son, Saddam. His forces are accused of a range of
[37:59]crimes by human rights groups, including rape, torture, and smuggling. At this point, the ship's passengers think they're still going to Europe.
[38:08]>> This boat is taking you back to Libya. >> Really? >> Yes. >> It's I don't know. >> These are the East Libyan Coast Guard. >> And if we say that we're going to go
[38:19]next, for example, in in Greek, we going to go or we cannot go. >> They're taking you away from Greece. They're taking you to Libya. >> We don't like Libyan. Exactly. Because
[38:30]we don't like Libyan, of course. Other passengers are equally shocked as the crew tries to pate them. >> If we didn't come to you,
[38:40]>> I think you die. >> As their dreams of Europe fade, fear steps in. >> Throw me in the water. Let me die. This man says, "But I'm not going back to
[38:51]Sudan or Libya." >> They're pretty desperate. They keep on saying, "Don't take us back. Don't take us back. We don't want to go back." A number of them saying that they've
[39:01]tried before, failed, and now trying again. But a lot of desperation and urging us. They think we've got something to do with it, and they're
[39:10]urging us to take them to to Europe. >> The interception of asylum seekers so close to European territory is highly
[39:20]contentious, returning them to war zones and unstable countries. Even more so, >> in cases like this, you don't think too hard about where you are in the sea. The
[39:31]captain tells us you saw water was already inside their boat. He goes on two or three hours and they'd all be dead. >> It's a long night back to East Libya
[39:43]where it's difficult to lodge asylum claims because the only UN recognized government is in the rival and separated West. I think a lot of people will wonder
[39:53]about the whole ethics of picking up people who have fled a war zone, who have fled instability, and they say
[40:04]they're terrified for their lives, and who've picked them up off the coast of what they consider safety in Europe. And
[40:14]then they've taken them all the way back again to to Libya, another country which is considered to be very fractured and very unstable
[40:26]and full of a certain number of of dangers. >> The men tell us they're all from Sudan, too, and legally allowed to stay in Libya, but none want to. And now they're
[40:38]about to be returned to what they were fleeing from, one of the world's worst humanitarian disasters. There's a frantic dash for freedom,
[40:49]>> a sense they've come too far trying to escape war to give up now. >> But it's a fruitless, desperate gesture.
[41:00]>> He knows along with the rest of them that they're headed to a detention center. They'll be locked up now for an unknown time and then sent back to a war zone. They are a picture of despair and
[41:11]helplessness. Well, Alex joins me here tonight. We've long talked about this poorest North African border, haven't we? But what was it like for you there, seeing the hope
[41:22]of these people, then their desperation and despair? >> I think at first they thought very much that they were possibly going to die. You know, they were in a boat that had
[41:34]been bobbing around. The engines had failed. The fuel had run out. It's pitch dark and the seas are quite are quite rocky. I mean on the way there our much
[41:44]bigger vessel was really tossing and turning. So when they saw a big ship picking them up, they were like, "Okay, scrambled on, full of hope, full of
[41:54]optimism, especially seeing what appeared to be Europeans filming them coming in." And they the first immediate reaction was, you know,
[42:04]water, water, please give us water. But then it was lots of thank yous. And we said over and over again, hang on, we're just journalists. We're just observing. We're just filming this. And then they
[42:15]thought that they were going to Greece and they were they were a number of them were telling us what skills they had and how many languages they could speak and how useful they could be in Europe. And
[42:26]repeatedly we had to say no you're not going to Europe you're going to spend another five six hours at high speed being taken back to Libya. And when the penny dropped, there was a lot of
[42:37]anxiety, a lot of anger, a bit more desperation, and then sheer exhaustion. And they just realized things were out of their hands. >> So tell us then about the man who's
[42:47]driving this policy then. You know, who is he and what is he hoping to get out of being effectively Europe's migrant policeman? >> Well, General Khalifa Heftar is the de
[42:57]facto leader of East Libya and he has he's got a very interesting past. He was a former uh general under Colonel Gaddafi, the longtime dictator of Libya
[43:08]who was toppled during the Arab Spring in 2011. He fell out with Colonel Gaddafi. And so he came back uh he went into exile in America for many years and
[43:20]lived near Langley. um was meant to have had quite good relationships with the CIA, returned during the Arab Spring and the revolution and took part in that
[43:32]revolution. But he said, "All I bring with you is an army." And he he had he created his own military, which he called the Libyan National Army. Um he
[43:41]then was recalled when ISIS filled the vacuum which was left after the revolution. became a kind of hero because he drove out ISIS who controlled
[43:52]large sections of Benghazi, the the seat of the revolution. Um, but since then he's set up his own kind of de facto government. He's not taken part in
[44:04]official democratic elections for many years now and he's appointed his sons. So, he's created another family dynasty and he's much feared. I mean he jails
[44:14]journalists and uh has been linked to the killing of of parliamentarians who've criticized him. His sons have a very feared reputation as well. So there he clearly wants political recognition.
[44:26]He wants to be recognized by Europe as a partner and he also wants funds because the west, the internationally recognized government of Libya has got millions
[44:37]from Europe for um doing deals with Italy and so the people smuggling and the whole um migrant challenge has moved
[44:46]to the east and this new route from eastern Libya to Greece and he's basically saying and he he he invited asked to show what a good job his his
[44:58]team was doing. But the that is very controversial sort of going out into basically European waters and pulling them away from Europe and returning them
[45:08]to essentially war zones. >> Alex, stay there if you don't mind. Let's talk about one of those war zones war zones now and and uh hear from Amy Pope who is chief of the International
[45:20]Organization for Migration. He's currently in the uh capital of Sudan cartoon. I spoke to her earlier and began by asking her thoughts on the images from Alex's report. >> It's an extraordinarily dangerous
[45:32]journey. I've had the opportunity uh to meet some of these migrants just as they're coming off the boat in Italy. They tell horrific stories of the dangers they faced along the way, the
[45:42]exploitation, the abuse, the detention, not to mention the tremendous um obstacles they face when they're actually on the sea. um what we've seen in terms of people who die or get lost
[45:53]at sea um that number is just way too high. As you know, it's been over a thousand this year alone. Um but it suggests that there are desperate people who are willing uh to risk everything at
[46:05]the hope of a better life. >> Well, indeed, sir, and you are in Sudan right now seeing the push factors why people are fleeing. The difficulty is you've talked about stocks of aid being
[46:16]dangerously low. You know, if people don't get aid swiftly right now as they leave cities like Alfasia or in the months to follow, they have to leave, don't they? They have no other option.
[46:28]So, have aid agencies, do you think failed people right now? >> Well, so I really think this is about um our partner governments around the world
[46:38]balancing the short and long-term concerns. I understand of course that there are extreme budget uh resource constraints all over the world including with some of our key partner
[46:49]governments. But cutting aid, cutting assistance to those at the moment where they most need it often translates into the kind of dangerous routes that people
[47:00]take eventually which ultimately becomes so much more expensive to respond to. >> Well, tell us a bit about what you've seen so far on your visit to Sudan. you
[47:10]know first of all how many people are still left in alasia how many have got out and what are conditions for them when they are out >> so about 90 the thousand people have
[47:21]fled alashaser and we think about the same number remain in the city um that is in addition of course to another 50,000 who left the port of a nearby region and the stories that we've heard
[47:32]are absolutely horrific I had a chance to sit down with a group of women yesterday um all of them spoke about the tremendous fear that they felt. One woman described having to crawl on her
[47:44]hands and knees as she was leaving um her neighborhood so that she would not be targeted by the drones. They spoke of the men being stopped and either sumearily shot or detained. They spoke
[47:56]about people being left behind, those who are too weak or too sick to continue on with the journey. and they described seeing dead bodies along the route as
[48:05]they fled the area, the people who just couldn't keep up. Um, and that of course is in addition to the very, very high numbers of women and girls who have been sexually abused, who have been raped as
[48:16]they've tried to flee. >> So, so where are people going? I know you went to one of the camps, didn't you? Um, you know, the stories are truly horrific, but for others, you know, even if you did have the docks, we've talked
[48:27]about how low they are. Could you even access those in need? >> Well, to give you a sense, um, we are seeing people flee. Of course, first they they stay close to home. So, there
[48:39]are people still in Darur. They're the most difficult to reach right now. And for that reason, we're calling for a ceasefire so that we can get access to those who need the support or some sort
[48:50]of humanitarian corridor. That's number one. We have seen about 6% of the people go to a place called Tila. we are able to get some resources there. Um and then of course many of the people I've met
[49:02]are people who are traveling even further field. They describe taking um days long journey combinations of walking of finding donkeys of trying to
[49:12]get a ride from someone um and so they're really spreading out across the region in search of safety. >> And your organization has called for safe and legitimate passage routes for
[49:24]people. But you can't transplant western darur into Europe. That would be unsustainable and intolerable to people. So, so what is what is the solution then
[49:35]for for those who need to find safe shelter? >> Well, in fact, it's it's what we know from most of the people we talk to is that they don't want to go that far from home. They're first looking for safety,
[49:46]for security in neighboring countries. So for example, Egypt has traditionally hosted many Sudin. Providing support so that people can um access education and
[49:57]job opportunities so that the Egyptian communities there are able to welcome them is key. Likewise, we see comm people from Sudan go to places like Chad
[50:07]or South Sudan. So starting much more locally, providing capacity and response there is a much more effective, much more cost efficient and much more
[50:18]life-saving way to make sure that we stabilize communities that are facing some of the worst pressures to move. >> Amy Pope there. Well, let's return to
[50:28]Alex Crawford. The push the the push factors are really strong in parts of Africa and in fact many people you met did say that they were from Sudan. Yeah, they're not just from Sudan. There were
[50:38]large large numbers who said they were from Sudan, but also Eratraa, Nigeria, Cameroon, Nishair, but the bulk that we spoke to definitely said they were from
[50:49]Sudan. And they were being they thought anything was better than staying with the horror that was happening in Sudan. And they traveled. This is just one part
[50:59]of the journey. And in fact the last bit crossing the the channel is is the very last one is a last step of in the before they even reach Libya one one group of
[51:09]about 40 had cross spent 20 days a number talked about being raped on route even to get to East Libya. And in East Libya remember there's very little oversight at the moment because it's an
[51:21]unrecognized section of the of the country and they're not dealing overtly with the leaders there. Um there's no little oversight into what's going on in the detention centers, what's happening
[51:32]on the boats, what's happening, many indications that people who are held in detention centers in East and West are being ransomed, tortured, raped, used as
[51:43]slave labor. All of this is a is a question that faces not just Britain, but the European Union leaders. >> Yes. And clearly, you know, many organizations, including Amy Popes and
[51:54]humanitarian organizations want more safe and legal passage. But the tolerance in Europe is not to take people who have come from various countries in Africa through that poorest
[52:04]border of Libya that you know literally people don't want want to help. Now >> I I mean that's obviously going to be an ongoing problem for all the political
[52:14]leaders of the European Union and Britain. I think many humanitarian organizations and perhaps many politicians would think that you probably need to try and stop
[52:25]the problem a long long way back. You know, perhaps the seat of of you know what's going on in Saddam? What is it that's prompting them all this huge
[52:35]humanitarian crisis? And should other countries been getting involved in trying to prevent that mass exodus from people who by and large do not want to
[52:46]leave family, friends, and all cultural links behind and embark on a seriously dangerous journey. And the Mediterranean one is the worst the most dangerous
[52:57]migrating route in the world. So they're not taking this on likely. And a lot of people just throughout the day have been sending me messages about uh saying why
[53:07]is it only men? Because this is a fantastically dangerous journey and only the strongest and the fittest are embarking it and they're doing it out of desperation.
[53:19]>> And how does it relate to the channel migrant issue which is so you know ripe in this country? Well, everything that is happening in Libya and that is a
[53:28]massive transit point for for migrants affects what eventually happens here and Europe. So, and everyone converging all
[53:38]those people and 850,000 migrants or refugees are in Libya at one point. So that's a lot of people constantly coming through and as long as there are
[53:48]smugglers or traffickers who appear to make it easy for them to do it using all their savings
[53:56]offer and coers them and force them into doing this journey it's going to keep on happening because people are are desperate. So I think the the the root of the problem and many humanitarian
[54:08]organizations would say needs to be tackled much much earlier >> and it's very much part of a criminal enterprise which is what >> the whole thing is a criminal enterprise with many of the different countries
[54:20]networks within the countries facilitating this criminal network. >> Such a big issue. Alex, thank you very much indeed. Fascinating reporting there. Thank you. And you can watch Alex's full documentary by scanning the
[54:31]QR code on your screen now. So, let's uh end tonight with the giant solar storm that postponed a rocket launch today and could disrupt the GPS, communication
[54:41]systems, and electricity grids that power our lives. Well, the British Geological Survey says the sun is sending out particularly strong
[54:50]geomagnetic waves. On the left is the effect on the Earth's atmosphere and magnetic field. On the right is how the array is emitting from the sun. Well,
[55:02]it's being called a cannibal solar storm because of its potential to feed off another storm in space, and it is one of
[55:10]the biggest in 20 years. Well, there is a silver lining to all of this, though. The storm could bring more impressive northern light sightings to parts of the
[55:20]UK tonight as long as there are clear, dark skies. Certainly, America enjoyed an extraordinary uh display. So, a big day of news in terms of
[55:31]Epstein today with the release of thousands of documents in Washington. So, what do we know tonight? Well, the US president has accused Democrats of trying to lay a trap after an email
[55:42]suggested he had spent hours with one of the pedophiles victims. A survivor of Jeffrey Epstein and a lawyer representing 27 others have demanded
[55:52]that Congress release now all the documents. Our teams are still pouring through those files. We will bring you any new information as we get it.
[56:02]Well, that is it from the world team for tonight. Uh more from news at 10 in a moment.