[0:00]is a statement from Buckingham Palace. His majesty has today initiated a formal process to remove the style, titles, and honors of Prince Andrew. Prince Andrew
[0:11]will now be known as Andrew Mountbatton Windsor. His lease on Royal Lodge has to date provided him with legal protection to continue in residence. Formal notice
[0:23]has now been served to surrender the lease and he will move to alternative private accommodation. These censures are deemed necessary, notwithstanding the fact that he continues to deny the
[0:34]allegations against him. Their majesties wish to make clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been and remain with the victims and survivors of
[0:44]any and all forms of abuse. Well, uh, let's bring in our panel who who are with me now, Kitoi and Ava Evans from Politics Joe. Uh, also not expecting to
[0:55]be talking about this, but we got you and you're all jenned up on Rachel Reeves. Um, but but let let's ask you first of all, Gito, as somebody who was formerly inside number 10, um, John was
[1:07]alluding to the fact that that this probably will have featured in the king and the and the prime minister's conversations this week. >> That's highly likely. And the conversation will have happened at a
[1:17]number of different levels. Comm's chief to comms chief, private secretary to private secretary. there had been quite there would have been quite a lot of that. Um this is an amputation
[1:28]essentially. This is the royal family belatedly really cutting Andrew loose and signaling in terms that others I think have been screaming out for for
[1:37]weeks now that this man cannot continue and a little tinkering here and there take away the odd title doesn't work. there's been a sort of loud uh cry I think from the general public and from
[1:49]within the royal household essentially saying make him go away and this is what they're doing now it's you know it's going to be a formal process strip him of his titles he's going to be an
[1:59]ordinary citizen and he's going to move out of a palace and no nobody really thought he was being rightly punished for his associations uh shall we say when he continued to live in a great big
[2:10]palace and call himself a prince. This sounds like the message has finally landed. >> Ava, what's your reaction to it? Do you think this is the an appropriate response? >> Good. I'm really pleased to see it actually. It's a shame that it took so
[2:21]long. I mean, I I I wonder actually if this is probably pressure from Prince William, who over the last couple of days, you know, there was this uh release from the palace actually, I think it was in the Sunday papers about
[2:31]how uh Andrew would not be invited to his coronation. And arguably that might have precipitated, you know, or you know, preceded King Charles's uh decision here. But I mean it's totally
[2:42]shameful. I mean you know he might be the country's most expensive benefits scrangerer. I mean why on earth is he living in a 30bedroom lodge just outside London. You know no one in this country
[2:53]could even fathom dreaming of living in a place like that. But the taxpayer is paying for that. And you might make an argument that somehow the crown estate is naturally paying for it. At the end of the day it's all of us who are actually funding his lifestyle. And you
[3:04]know no friend of Jeffrey Epstein should actually be allowed any access to any taxpayer money. Do do you think that the royal family have been a little bit slow to act here? I mean, we saw you mentioned William and and we saw at that
[3:15]funeral a few weeks ago, Andrew trying to talk to William outside and William just frostily looking eyes straight forward and not engaging. Clear. It was clear from the body language that he was furious. >> Yeah, absolutely. They have been very
[3:27]very slow and this is actually really worrying probably for Prince William and Kate because they've been trying to sort of reinvigorate their uh image and their, you know, how they're perceived by younger people, particularly around millennials. you know, they've been
[3:38]doing sort of interviews on BBC Radio One to make them seem more, you know, ingratiated with people who are under 30 because it isn't the sort of monarchist royalist feeling amongst that age category. And then you've got someone at
[3:50]the top here, his uncle, acting despicably. You know, if they'd nipped this in the bud earlier on, then perhaps it wouldn't have been rolling news coverage for the past two years and then the monarchy might stand a chance to continue. Part part of the problem Gita
[4:02]I think for so many years was was when the queen was still alive there was much made of the fact that that Andrew was her favorite and and that she you know wanted to protect him that protection
[4:12]went when she passed but that the royal family didn't act quickly did they after after she went >> they didn't and there was an excellent piece in the Sunday Times over the weekend just getting into all of that that he'd always got away with it
[4:23]because she had a massive soft spot for him which you understand as a mother but as a monarch that's kind of different and they have been extremely slow on this occasion. I think there's been two problems. One is the associations that
[4:34]as long as he is deemed to be acceptable with the rest of the gang, the rest of the firm if you like, then it contaminates them. And so the whole monarchy, I think, has kind of taken a bit of a blow over the last couple of
[4:46]weeks. It's also made the king look impotent because if you cannot if you're king of any sort of domain and you cannot order your own brother to move out of your own palace, then what
[4:57]exactly are you there for? And I think it was all starting to get not just nasty but almost farical. And so at last somebody's gone in taken charge taken a
[5:07]grip of the situation and it looks like they are stemming the you know the loss of blood. Tonight >> John just coming back to you I mean the division between monarchy and and politics and and the state and
[5:19]parliament it it's always been kept separate. It's very unusual for for politicians to tiptoe over what the royals should be doing. But do do you
[5:29]sense that there the pressure that that we heard, you know, the fact that it has been raised in the commons and and the fact that there is talk of a parliamentary committee, etc. has perhaps changed things. >> Well, it looks like that parliamentary
[5:40]committee is now going to meet to discuss the financial arrangements of the crown estates and so on. I was just thinking actually when uh we read that statement titles plural the the Labour
[5:52]MP or I think she's suspended at the moment Rachel Mascll the MP for York has said that he should be stripped of the title of Duke of York. So it sounds though that's now going to happen. She
[6:01]says that huge opposition to him keeping that title in the city of York. Now in terms of parliamentary debate and so on.
[6:10]Well of course um it is the the king the monarch's parliament. the monarch opens parliament every day if every every now and again we see if we when we're broadcasting in the central lobby you
[6:22]see the documents being taken up to the house of lords and so on and bills getting royal ascent and all that sort of stuff so yes I mean the monarchy has
[6:31]a role in parliament um now of course the speaker would come down very heavily on any MP who overstepped the mark in criticizing the monarchy um but I'm I'm
[6:43]I'm pretty sure that it will require some legislation and I wouldn't be surprised if uh there's has to be a statement from the prime minister in the commons um on on this probably on
[6:54]Monday. The house is sitting Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. There is a mini recess coming up. But clearly that what that's said in that statement about stripping him of his titles must go
[7:05]before Parliament. I would have thought >> unless there is another way that that they've perhaps worked out that that that can be done. Um, my correspondent Molly Malone has just joined us in in the studio here. Molly, are you able to
[7:16]tell us anything else apart from this very basic statement? >> What we do know is it seems to be happening at pace. It sounds like they feel that parliamentary time it takes a long time to do what they'd want to do
[7:26]and actually they feel potentially that you know urgent national issues need to be addressed by parliament and actually they want to speed up the process. We know as we know it's been weeks of mounting pressure and controversy
[7:38]surrounding Prince and uh surrounding Prince Andrew. We now know that two things have happened. One, he's set to leave uh Royal Lodge. We don't know the time scale for that. It's not immediately clear. They're essentially, we think, saying as soon as is
[7:50]practically possible. And as soon as they can make arrangements for that to happen, I think that Sarah Ferguson's arrangements will be separate to that. It'll be for her own. It will be for her
[8:00]to make her own arrangements. And we also now know that he'll be known as Andrew Mountbatton of Windsor. We know he gave up his Duke of York title earlier in the month, saying that
[8:10]continued accusations about him uh distract from the work of his majesty and the royal family. But this is bit, as we know, continued pressure for him to leave his home over his relationship
[8:20]uh with Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted pedophile. It's worth saying, of course, we know that he's long denied any wrongdoing. >> Molly, thank you very much. >> The government can rush through legislation quickly if they want to.
[8:31]We've seen it happen. Things like all sorts of other things indeed. Let's bring in our royal correspondent Laura Bundock because she might be able to shed more light on all of this. Um Laura, what else are the are the palace saying? We've we've had this very
[8:42]official statement. I know that you will have spoken to them separately. Um anything else you're able to tell us at all at all about what arrangements are now being made? >> Yeah. Well, I mean I think first and
[8:53]foremost it's clear that the king wanted to take decisive action about this and that is exactly what we're seeing now. That pressure just hadn't gone away. Even when Andrew, as we must now call
[9:04]him, decided that he was no longer going to use those titles, he still kept them. And I think that irked so many people um and his continued sort of lease
[9:14]connected to Royal Lodge. And I think the pressure wasn't going away. It was becoming too much of a distraction. It slightly overshadowed the king's very important trip to the Vatican last week.
[9:25]And of course, Prince William is is due in Brazil for his Earthshot prize next week as well. So I think this swift move is being taken now. Now it's interesting how they're going about the removal of
[9:36]the title. So he is of course prince. He was rather prince juke of York and there are other various titles as well. What's happening now in terms of the removal of them is they're going to remove the juke
[9:48]of York from the periage role which means that title can't be used officially. Um now there are a number of ways you can do this but I think by
[9:58]doing it this way it's not going to take up any time in parliament um and sort of take important parliamentary time away from from other things that you know debates there and and laws and things
[10:10]need to take up. So um I think the king is using everything in his own power to to remove this um as a period. So I think in terms of the technicalities of
[10:20]it and it's all kind of slightly strange titles and and people who are involved in all of this but um the law chancellor basically he's in charge of this role of
[10:30]the periage and the king is now sending royal warrants to the lord chancellor to chancellor to get rid of the dupdom of York. Um we understand that it was the
[10:41]king who who started this process but Andrew has not objected and it's going to take um take effect from now. So he will no longer be Prince Andrew. We will
[10:51]simply be calling him Andrew Mountbatton Windsor. Um his daughters though because of the way their titles are given remain princesses. And we now know, of course,
[11:01]this huge issue surrounding Royal Lodge, this this enormous vast estate on on the Windsor estate that was tied up with a complicated lease. Anyway, that's now
[11:12]that's now going and and Andrew, we understand, will be moving out as soon as possible. And we'll be moving to a property, we understand, on the king's
[11:22]private Sandingum Sandingham estate. That's his his estate in Norol. Best known perhaps for the Christmas Day family gatherings. We're not being told at this stage which property it will be.
[11:33]Um it's a large estate there in in Norol, but that's that's where he'll be going. And and any future accommodation for um Andrew is going to be privately
[11:42]funded by the king as for his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson was simply being told that she will be making her own arrangements at this stage. But this is
[11:52]this is a a big story and like I say, I think that pressure just hadn't gone away. um follow following all the accusations which he has constantly denied. But I think it's very telling in
[12:03]that statement from the palace that the king and queen wanted to make it clear that their thoughts and sympathies are always with um victims um um and survivors of abuse. And I think that that last sentence says it all, which is
[12:14]why the king has taken and made this this huge step. >> Laura, um so you mentioned Beatric and Eugenei. Apologies if you did mention
[12:25]her and I missed it, but what happens with Sarah Ferguson? Is that clear? >> So, all we understand is that in terms of her living arrangements, I mean, she
[12:35]she she in terms she she announced when um Andrew said he was no no longer going to be using the title Duke of York. She wasn't going to be using the Duchess of York. She doesn't use it actually, but
[12:47]it is connected with her anyway. Assuming that that dup is being removed from the periage role, then she will no longer have any association with that title. In terms of where she lives, um
[12:57]she's making her own arrangements. By that I read she won't be moving to the Sanjing estate with with Andrew, but it's unclear um where she will be. They have this unconventional arrangement
[13:08]where as as ex-husband and wife, they they live in the same house but in different sort of wings of it. Is a large property, but that coexistence could well be coming coming to an end. what it means for their future. I'm not
[13:20]sure. But yes, certainly in terms of the the two daughters, Beatatric and Euenei, they remain princesses, that that isn't going away because of how how those titles are awarded.
[13:30]>> Okay, Laura, thanks so much for giving us all that that fresh information so quickly. Laura Bunduck, our royal correspondent there. Um, let's now turn to royal commentator Alistister Bruce,
[13:41]who who joins us now. Alistister Laura's given us a lot about the minutiae about the nuts and bolts of this decision, but but let's take a step back. Uh you know the royal family well. H how difficult a
[13:52]decision do you think this will have been for the king? >> This has been something that's been growing for some time. The king is very aware that public opinion has been
[14:02]extremely clear. There is no love at the moment for the Duke of York as he was. uh he had become Prince Andrew already
[14:11]and it is imperative that the king moved and he has done tonight and he's made it very clear that using whatever advice he's been given he will see to it that
[14:23]Prince Andrew is cleared of all titles and styles and the style of course was the fact that he was born a prince and called royal highness but that will all
[14:33]be removed and the king can do that through a letter's patent it It is after all through the letters pattern that when he was born Andrew was given a
[14:44]princely title and was called royal highness and it was then Elizabeth II who made him a duke and earlier uh which have already been put into a
[14:56]place of disuse and now will be uh removed completely and then of course he's been a night companion of the order of the garter and a knight grand cross of the royal victorian order both of
[15:06]those are being expuned Ed because the king can do that as sovereign of each of the orders in accordance with the statutes of those orders. But I think
[15:16]you know within the family this issue which the king has referred to is so deeply marked by the king and queen's
[15:26]horren for what has happened to people and what they have suffered. And I think that the king is reacting in a way to deal with something that has been sat
[15:36]there for some time and which has come to its height particularly following the publication of that book. And I think that it is wise of the king to have
[15:47]stopped and taken all the advice that he's got and with the support no doubt of government and others he has now made this decision announced tonight that all
[15:59]honors titles and styles will be removed from his brother who will just be called Mr. Andrew Mambbatton Winter. and and Andrew, one thing that that we
[16:10]we know was an issue for the royal family was the fact that that it was providing pro proving to be a distraction uh distraction around the time that the king went to meet the pope and it was even a distraction this week
[16:20]when the the king was uh visiting I think it was Lincoln Cathedral and and there were people shouting from the crowds about it. There were lots of other people who were who were who were telling this person to to shut up and to
[16:30]sing their hook. But it's not what the king wants to hear when he's on a walkabout, is it? The king has a role to be a focus for national unity and clearly this issue
[16:41]was getting in the way of that and the initial move by the king to put the titles beyond use and the honors beyond use has been deemed by public reaction
[16:53]to be not sufficient. And I am sure that however much a brother wants to look after a brother as a brother, it is quite clear that in the business of
[17:03]kingship, more needed to be done. And the king has now acted and this is literally an expuning. It'll take some time, I have no doubt. But I imagine that as the announcement has been made,
[17:15]the king's private secretary, Sir Clive Alderton, would have prepared a very clear route to make sure that all style, title, and honor that have been given to
[17:26]the king's brother will be removed and it'll be done formally and in accordance with custom. And so that will take its time as I say. But it is effectively as
[17:37]of now clear that the brother of the king will be an ordinary person without any form of exceptional name other than
[17:48]just his first name and his last name. >> Alistister. Alistister Bruce. Thank you very much for the time being. Let's return to our royal correspondent Laura Bundock who who joins us over the phone
[17:58]now. and and Laura, we talked to Alistister about how difficult this will have been for the king. Uh perhaps a less difficult decision in regards to
[18:09]younger members of of the royal family. Specifically, I was thinking William and Catherine. >> Yes, I think Prince William obviously is close to both of his cousins and we'll
[18:19]know that for princesses Beatrice and Eenei this will be an incredibly difficult time. Think of the family as you will, but they have always come
[18:29]across as this very close-knit family, like I said, with an unconventional living arrangement with both Andrew and Sarah Ferguson living in the same house.
[18:39]But but but that that is how it's always been presented, that they are close to each other. And I think it has been hard for the family to have to put
[18:50]essentially the firm over family here. So for the king uh to have to take this action against his own brother will have been a difficult one. It won't have been
[19:02]an easy decision. And I'm sure those discussions were not easy ones for the two brothers to have had. Certainly I think there was a feeling Andrew when he
[19:13]uh a couple of weeks ago said he wouldn't be using those two titles that perhaps this might die down. But it became clear that it simply wouldn't go away. Which is why I think the king has
[19:24]sought the advice. Um he he has spoken to the people who know about these things to to see what would be the quickest and easiest way of removing all these titles and stars from his his
[19:36]brother. We we understood you know there was one route through parliament. It require an act of parliament but there is an alternative method which it seems is now being enacted. It is a it is a
[19:47]formal a formal process but what the king is doing is asking the law chancellor to remove the juke of York from the periage role so it doesn't have
[19:57]to to go through the parl parliament in the same way um as had been discussed therefore not not taking up valuable time um in government so by taking the
[20:08]juke of York um the dupdom from the periage role that title can't be used officially now as I said There is a real distinction here because before Andrew said he wouldn't use the title. This
[20:20]means he won't have the title to use. So it is an incredible fall from grace. I think we just need to look at the man who was once a global ambassador, a
[20:31]business ambassador for Britain. Um jetting all around the world at one point. He was a decorated war hero. He he he saw action in the Falklands war.
[20:41]And I yet here we are uh the brother of the king, no longer even a prince, just Mr. Andrew Mountbatton Windsor. And and it's from um from now basically that he
[20:52]will simply be known as Andrew Mountbatton Windsor. >> Laura, thank you very much for that for bringing us all the latest. If you're just joining us, let's just remind you of what's happened in the last half
[21:03]hour. Tonight, Buckingham Palace have released a statement. in it. They say his majesty has today initiated a formal process to remove the style, title, and
[21:14]honors of Prince Andrew. Prince Andrew will now be known as Andrew Mountbatton Windsor. His lease on Royal Lodge has to date provided him with legal protection
[21:24]to continue in residence. Formal notice has now been served to surrender the lease and he will move to alternative private accommodation. These censures are deemed necessary, notwithstanding
[21:36]the fact that he continues to deny the allegations against him. Their majesties wish to make clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been and will
[21:46]remain with the victims and survivors of any and all forms of abuse. Well, let's return to our political correspondent, John Craig, who is
[21:56]sitting next to me now. And John, we understand that the government was consulted about this um and supports the decision that the that the king and queen have made. >> As we were saying earlier, the prime
[22:08]minister and the king will have discussed this at the weekly audience. I was interested just listening to that statement once again. They referred to the fact that Andrew denies these
[22:17]allegations. Um so they're taking this action even though he denies the allegations. Clearly they've decided enough is enough. the shame he's brought on the royal family. But clearly the
[22:28]government will even if they don't want to go down the route of complicated legislation in parliament, I'm sure there'll have to be some sort of uh acknowledgement in parliament, some sort
[22:38]of parliamentary process here. Uh because uh um after all um we we we've just been talking about peer issues, haven't we? And the House of Lords and so on. Um so um I would have thought the
[22:50]prime minister will uh have had had probably quite a lot of discussions with the king about this possibly other members me senior politicians as well. I mean, I
[23:01]think perhaps uh David Lammy, the deputy prime minister, who's also Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor, I think he may well have a role in this because I think the Lord uh ch you may
[23:11]know better than me about this, but I think doesn't the Lord Chancellor have a role in stripping people of perigages. Um I think >> we're just we're just going to bring in Molly Malone, our >> exactly as John says, the Duke of York
[23:23]is a peeridge. So the king is basically using his powers at speed but via the Lord Chancellor essentially sending what's known as royal warrants to the Lord Chancellor to secure the removal
[23:34]rather I think in this case than having to use an act of parliament the palace's view is very much that you know parliament has urgent national issues uh to address and to deal with. So this is
[23:44]see seemingly how they're handling it um in this case rather than taking up sort of precious parliamentary time. The king clearly moving at speed to use the powers that he has. As you say there was
[23:56]a very visual reminder earlier in the week of the continued controversy that he was bringing in terms of the heckling uh that the king was experiencing. I think that really for the first time we
[24:07]saw quite vividly, you know, the the pain and that it's causing the institution and the royal family. >> We've just heard in the last few moments word from the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Ed Davyy. He's backed the
[24:18]king's decision to remove Andrew's title. He says the king is absolutely right to strip Prince Andrew of both his titles and his residence at Royal Lodge. It's clear that Andrew's position had
[24:30]become totally untenable, having disgraced his office and embarrassed the country. This is an important step towards rebuilding trust in our
[24:40]institutions and drawing a line under this whole sorry saga. Well, let's talk now uh to former royal correspondent and
[24:49]longtime royal watcher Jenny Bond, who joins us now. Um, Jenny, what do you make of of what's been announced in the last half an hour or so? >> Well, I I have just walked into the
[25:00]house and heard this news and I am pretty astonished. I have to say this is the strongest action against a member of the royal family uh that I know of. Um,
[25:11]and I think that the king is acting very much here in harmony with public opinion, media opinion, and parliamentary opinion. I think when we have those three forces lined up
[25:21]together and I've never seen as much criticism of a member of the royal family as we've had of Andrew even to the point that you know over last weekend I was feeling a touch um uneasy
[25:33]about being part of that pylon on Andrew and wondering just how far it could go. So I am very glad actually that the king has taken this action now has put a most
[25:45]decisive line under it and between him and his brother. It must have been an extraordinarily difficult decision but it is the correct decision and I think it is significant that in the statement
[25:55]the king and the queen point to the victims of the abuse and that's what they want this to be about more than uh the reputation of the royal family. But by doing this, they have uh alleviated
[26:07]some of the damage that's been done. >> And and and placing the victims center is something that that Prince Andrew seemed unable to do himself. There was
[26:17]very little contrition of his friendship with Epstein um in in all of those interviews that he gave and the comments that he made on the subject >> time and again. Yes, he's he's had the
[26:27]opportunity to express sympathy, had the opportunity to do something as he did say in the Newsight interview, he would. I know that uh as part of the settlement there was um a donation a hefty donation
[26:37]I think to Virginia's uh charity her foundation but um nevertheless he should have done more and he certainly has paid the price. It I mean it's extraordinary
[26:48]to think that he's no longer going to be a prince and that's going to hurt him. He's a man who um believes very highly in the trappings of royalty, has enjoyed
[26:59]the trappings of royalty, and is very hot on status. Um and I'm afraid his his arrogance
[27:08]um has just brought him down. Um and he is utterly disgraced now. And I can't see, can you see how the family will
[27:17]ever welcome him back to any events? I really don't know. It will be a long time I think before we see him with other members of the family and I imagine he is he is very bitter >> and and you the mention of the arrogance
[27:29]being part of his downfall that that is clear isn't it in in terms of the fact that that I think people are often able to forgive people who've made mistakes if there is contrition but there didn't appear to be a great deal of contrition
[27:40]there. >> No, there has been none and he has had the opportunity to do that. Um he's been holed up in Royal Lodge for so long now that we haven't heard much from him at
[27:51]all or seen him very much. So it's difficult to know what's been going on and we understand that um his wife Sarah Ferguson has been utterly distraught by this because uh she too has been brought
[28:02]down by this. You just can't have two people like this proven liars as senior members of the royal family um or really any part of the royal family. I suppose
[28:13]they always will be part of the family, but how close that family can ever be again, I don't know. I think William will be very relieved by this. Um I think I don't know exactly what part
[28:24]he's been playing in it, but I think he has been pushing for decisive action in a monarchy that he is going to be taking over and which he wants to be proud of.
[28:35]>> Yet it does seem that that there will be some kind of appropriate private provision from the king. It is understood. So, you know, however bad relations are, the king now seems to
[28:46]understand that it's going to be up to him to to look after Andrew and that that money can't come from crown money. It can't come from the public purse. No, because there was a genuine public interest here about Royal Lodge uh being
[28:58]part of the crown estate. Um it does need to be let out if it's going to be let out or at a commercial rent. Um and that does not appear to been the case by any means over the past 22 years. uh
[29:10]because the vast part of the profits from the crown estate go back to the treasury and therefore uh fund the things that taxpayers need funded. So there is a public interest here. So he'll be uh housed privately on the
[29:20]Sandreingham estate. There's a very nice farmhouse there. Very nice indeed. He'll probably be there, I should think. It's it's not very far from Sandringham House itself. And maybe in the fullness of
[29:30]time he he will be invited to join the family uh for very very private gatherings such as Christmas. I don't know. I don't with this is uncharted territory.
[29:41]>> And what about Sarah Ferguson uh and and the children Beatric and Eugenie? >> Well, for the girls, as they're known amongst the royals, it seems clear,
[29:51]well, it's it is stated that they will keep their titles. Uh it is a very close family. Um it's it's going to be enormously hurtful for all of them obviously and difficult for all of them,
[30:02]but I think they will remain loyal to their parents. Sarah Ferguson, I don't know where she's going to go. I've always thought that they would go hand in hand into wherever whichever oblivion
[30:11]they were going into. Uh but it seems that that there are reports that she wants to go her own way or they want to go their own way. I don't know. But look, they're grown people. They're
[30:21]grown-ups. They have plenty of money by any normal standards. Um and they should be able to stand on their own two feet. I mean, Andrew really shouldn't need his big brother to look after him
[30:32]financially or in any other way. And neither should Sarah expect that her ex-roin-law should fund her way of life. >> I guess that some would argue it'd be pretty tricky for them to go out and get
[30:42]normal jobs. >> Yes, probably would be. But I I cannot imagine they don't have the funds to uh manage some kind of existence in I mean they don't need vast mansions, do they?
[30:54]They can just have uh you know four or five bedroom twobedrooms houses actually probably would be fine. I' I've said publicly before perhaps um Andrew who will get a half a million pounds under
[31:05]the terms of the Crown Estate uh lease um in reparation for the money he shelled out for the renovation of Royal Lodge. I mean half a million pounds that
[31:15]might buy you a little place in Woking for example, you know, nice line in pizzas there. So who knows? >> Being mischievous. We like it though. Uh Jenny Bond, thank you very much for for
[31:25]joining us. Well, if you're just tuning in, uh, let's just remind you of the statement the Buckingham Palace have released this evening. Uh, they say, "His Majesty has today initiated a formal process to remove the style,
[31:36]title, and honors of Prince Andrew. Prince Andrew will now be known as Andrew Mountbatton, Windsor. His lease on the Royal Lodge has to date provided him with legal protection to continue in
[31:48]residence. Formal notice has now been served to surrender the lease and he will move to alternative private accommodation." These censures are deemed necessary notwithstanding the fact that he continues to deny the
[31:59]allegations against him. Their majesties wish to make clear that their thoughts and utmost sympathies have been and will remain with the victims and survivors of
[32:09]any and all forms of abuse. Well, let's return to our panel who are joining us here in the studio for politics help expecting to be talking about Rachel
[32:19]Reeves and her housing woes. GTO Harry um formerly uh from inside number 10 and Ava Evans from Politics Joe. Um Gito um Jenny was talking about Prince Andrew's
[32:30]personality and and how much of a problem do you think that has been in in his downfall? No no no sort of public sense of horror or outrage yet actually what was revealed about Epstein and
[32:41]>> no sense of humility about it. I met him a couple times a long time ago and he turns up and he's quite affable in a way that a sort of a man educated beyond his intellect can be and a man without
[32:52]really a proper job but you know seems to be part of the furniture and certain working assumptions nothing sort of really offensive about him but we didn't know then of the associations um and I think what has happened over
[33:04]the years and there's there's mounting evidence of this is that he has really milked that situation for personal gratification uh you know at a financial level to a
[33:15]certain extent but certainly at other levels as well that has left people very feeling very uh distasteful to say the least. I think what's striking tonight there's not going to be anyone in parliament who's going to say he's been hard done by. There's not going to be
[33:27]dissent about this. Everyone's going to support what the king has done. But what might happen is some people might not think it's enough. Even this is enough because humiliated though he is all of
[33:39]this presupposes there's a working assumption at the heart of what we're talking about tonight that he has done something wrong and that wrong is an association to put it gently with a
[33:50]notorious pedophile and there may be some people who say now that he is an ordinary citizen if he really is an ordinary citizen I know what would happen to me if I had associations with Jeffrey Epstein and a whole lot of files
[34:01]are being released across the Atlantic some more files about to be released. We expect in a few weeks when a few moves have taken in the states. Is he genuinely a private citizen as
[34:13]vulnerable as the rest of us are to inquiries and investigations and criminal investigations now? That will be the next test, I think. So much as this should be a full stop for the
[34:23]monarchy, it certainly sort of disassociates them from him. I'm not sure the pain is over for him, Andrew, yet. Ava, I mean it the royal family
[34:34]clearly see him as an enormous embarrassment. Do you think for us as a country he he's an embarrassment internationally or do you think this is something that is it's just something that us in the UK are quite focused on?
[34:44]I think he well as a country I think we're very lucky that the current president of the United States was also uh pictured with Epstein at v on various
[34:53]occasions because had he not been that perhaps we might have uh been punished uh more fervently than we have actually been. Um but it is an it's an enormous embarrassment on the world stage
[35:05]particularly when you look at you know negotiating with other countries you know that the monarchy the only real cell is that they are soft power for us they're supposed to be sort of you know the whiter than white they're supposed
[35:16]to be the attraction to come to visit the United Kingdom and then you know this behavior is so appalling and abominable it's not really like you want to go around to other countries and hand out mugs with his face on it do you
[35:27]right now you know he's not exactly the a prize to to be dishing out. >> I mean, you know, was was he ever useful? I mean, in terms of of international trade and and and going
[35:37]and smooing and pressing the flesh. I mean, as you said, an affable fellow. He was clearly perhaps playing to some strengths there in in going and smooing with a lot of businessmen and saying, "Come and invest in the UK."
[35:48]>> Yeah. I think to be fair with him um you know there is a sort of cache to being a member of the British royal family and it doesn't work everywhere but there are large parts of the world where that
[36:00]thing carries a certain weight and people people are excited about proximity to a sort of member of the royal family and to be fair with him he
[36:09]cuts a fairly I don't want to over exaggerated but he as a young man cut a fairly dashing figure he genuinely was I think uh pretty heroic in the Forklands
[36:19]war. And so this young prince rocks up, you know, somewhere else in the world, but she's a great deal younger than you and I can tell. She probably doesn't remember him. >> I mean, this was a man, you know, he was that was more of a William, I think he
[36:30][laughter] did he did date a string of incredibly glamorous women and he was in the tabloids. I mean, in the 80s and >> people people are fascinated by royalty. I mean, if we if we really are honest about them, they're one of the most
[36:41]dysfunctional families in modern Britain. If you just look at the level of divorce and, you know, brothers not talking to brothers and, you know, is that just very normal? >> You know, nobody's held down a proper job and the kids live at home with the
[36:53]parents and they're all living on benefits. I mean, really, you could describe the royal family as the most dysfunctional in a hotly contested field in modern Britain. But they are also, you know, a big asset. And I speak as
[37:04]somebody who thinks that the idea in in in theory and philosophically is ludicrous. But I have seen firsthand, you know, the the late queen in
[37:14]particular, what a draw she has been and what an asset she has been to this very odd setup that we have constitutionally um in the UK. So there was a time when
[37:24]Andrew was, you know, a kind of draw that people who might not turn up to meet some sort of career civil servant who rocked up in Abu Dhabi wanting to meet investors, but if there was a chance to meet Prince Andrew and shake
[37:36]hands with royalty and there weren't selfies back uh back there, Eva, but um have your picture taken with him, you know, and and sent to you weeks later when it had been printed off on a copier
[37:47]in Buckingham Palace or whatever, then that was a draw. And that did mean I think that certain deals were struck and certain investments came to the UK and
[37:56]in that sense he he he proved valuable. What people say is that he also took advantage of that very very personally for personal gratification and financial benefit.
[38:06]>> I think there was a time certainly going on for what Gus is saying when he was regarded as very useful by British prime ministers. I can remember going back to when Gordon Brown was prime minister. I remember going to an event where he was
[38:18]at the time when he was a trade envoy and clearly the government at the time found him very useful in in trade deals and so on. Um I also remember being in Gibralar when I think there was a
[38:29]vacancy for governor and I think the locals there wanted Prince Andrew as their governor. That's because of because I suppose because of his naval background helicopters and all that
[38:38]faland's war. So he was at one time regarded as an asset before the scandal. you mentioned before about him being a war hero of the Faullands and so on. Um
[38:49]before his spectacular fall from grace, he was regarded as an acid. >> Yeah, indeed. Um let's return to Alistister Bruce Sky royal commentator who's re rejoining us now. And and
[39:00]Alistister, will the king be hoping that this puts an end to the controversy around Andrew? I mean whether or not it does is a different matter. I suppose
[39:10]>> this is radical action by the king and he will have taken a great deal of advice. I'm sure that the government wants this matter to be seen by the nation to have been addressed and
[39:20]clearly the decision by the king that the former Duke of York would leave his titles to one side is not sufficient and
[39:29]that has clearly not dealt with the issue as far as public opinion is concerned. And so the king has acted radically today with the advice of those
[39:41]who know the law about dealing with purigages which are by nature quite difficult to remove and extinguish. But he has been given a clear route and he
[39:51]has acted and therefore from now it is just Mr. Andrew Mountbatton Windsor who we're talking about and he once held a dukedom anom a barren and much else
[40:02]besides and that has all now been put into train to be completely expuned to literally cease to exist and that is
[40:13]quite radical in historical terms but it does mean I think for the king that the business of being the deep keel of the nation which is what the sovereign seeks
[40:24]to be not only for the United Kingdom but for the other nations of which he is king and also his role as head of the Commonwealth has been entirely distracted and it's been a steady beat
[40:35]in the royal story for a long time. I don't believe it will cease to be present but I think the clear evidence that the king now has taken away all
[40:47]that was given to Andrew as a result of being the queen's son. The fact that he's now done that I think must at least be clear as an expression of
[40:58]determination by the king that this should be divided away from his role as head of state. But of course at the same time the king is a brother and within
[41:08]families it can be a complicated place. But in addition to that the king completely accepts that Andrew Mountbatten Windsor has made it very
[41:18]clear that he contests the allegations that are made against him and that he has always done so and in the king acting and in that his brother is going
[41:30]along with it. I think we are seeing I hope for the king a turning of the page and a sign to the public that the king has taken this very seriously as
[41:40]seriously as he can. >> Alistister, how do you think Prince Andrew will be feeling today? Well, no longer Prince Andrew is he batten Windsor.
[41:51]>> Well, I I would imagine this is a significant element of what he had been. After all, he was born to Elizabeth II.
[42:01]He was born to a queen, whereas his elder brother and sister had not been. And so from the moment of his birth, he has been part of this family. He continues to be part of the family. And
[42:13]much was required of him. And people have their views over whether he contributed or didn't, whether he did the jobs that he was given well or badly. And I'm sure that might go on.
[42:25]But as far as his mother was concerned, he was an integral part of what she was seeking to do as head of state. But you know this story encompasses so much
[42:36]public opinion and it is imperative that the king has acted bearing in mind that you know what matters is that he as head of state must be supported by members of
[42:47]his family who are able to work and contribute. Here clearly his brother Andrew no longer can. and I'm sure for his brother Andrew who's been out of the public sphere for quite a long time.
[42:58]Although he has appeared with members of the family and that in itself has been deemed as controversial. We're not going to see him again at any of these events. He is always going to be the brother of
[43:10]the king. He is always going to be part of the family. And Andrew's two daughters will continue to be princesses although don't although they don't do
[43:19]public duties. But in the end, this will be a significant change for Andrew and a challenge for him to take on. Not least losing all of these elements that came
[43:31]to him with birth and with marriage, but also the fact that he's moving from the house that became his at an important point in his life and in which he has
[43:40]lived for most of his married life. >> Alistister, thank you very much for that. Um, we talked a little bit earlier about the impact it was having uh on the king's maneuvers throughout the the the
[43:52]week. Uh, this was the embarrassment that was causing the king. It was a little bit apparent earlier when he was heckled on a visit uh in Lincolnshire to the cathedral. Let's have a little
[44:02]listen to that. >> How long did you learn about Andrew and stage? Have you asked the police to cover up >> for making that noise? The king then
[44:18]just moves on to past those members. Let's bring in the historian, Sir Anthony Seldon, now who joins us. Uh Anthony, very good to get your thoughts today. Alistister Bruce there talking
[44:30]about this being radical and historical from the king. What's your uh judgment on how historic how significant this is? >> Well, it's very significant, isn't it? I
[44:41]mean, it's incredibly radical and it's without historical precedent and uh I
[44:49]think a regret is that in some ways it's similar to the application crisis of 1936. obviously a monarch, the monarchy felt he couldn't carry on doing his job,
[45:01]but it was the monarch themselves who withdrew. And here it looks very strongly like Andrew was pushed. And it was open to
[45:11]Andrew on numerous occasions to uh to voluntarily uh himself and avoid the embarrassment.
[45:21]you cannot have a monarchy, two significant royals, including him, uh, unwell. Uh so they're fighting hard to
[45:31]to uh work for all that's best in Britain. Um for charity, for caring for other people, for service, for dignity,
[45:40]for for help for others, and have somebody whose um allegations against them are so utterly aborant and uh
[45:50]antithetical to everything that the monarchy is wanting to convey. So I think it's inevitable. I think it's the right thing. uh for the monarch to do
[46:00]and um I I think I agree with Alistister that I think now now sure look some people are going to carry on saying uh more and more should have happened but
[46:10]it's very hard to think uh what more decisive action uh the monarch and the monarchy could have taken. I think I'd also say that I don't think that the monarchy itself is particularly
[46:21]suffering from this. something people have priced in as you were saying for many years Andrew has had question marks over him. Now he denies um those some or
[46:32]all of those allegations but people have priced in that Andrew was not a a positive and in tune member of the royal family with all the values of service
[46:44]rather than entitlement uh service that the royal family uh stand for. So people have priced it in. So I don't think it's going to have had a a particularly
[46:54]significantly negative effect on the royal family, but it was just very unwelcome noise that looked as if it was going to go on and on and on. So yes,
[47:05]he's done the right thing. Yes, I think that Andrew could have fallen on his sword, would have done himself a lot of good if he done that, but he didn't use that option. I mean, constitutionally, Anthony, in
[47:17]terms of of where he is in in line to the throne, this doesn't make a difference, does it? Because he was so far down. >> He is now far down. He wasn't uh earlier on
[47:28]before the young prince prince princess were born. Uh but now he's a long way down. I think, you know, I think it looks like a very big thing. But in terms of the royal family which was uh
[47:39]been in existence for the monarchy for 900 more years I don't think that it was significantly impacting it was very big it was very big negative story very
[47:49]unwelcome noise very distracting uh very very discordant with all those messages of everything that the royal family is standing for of of nationhood
[48:01]and service and goodness and compassion uh to have this very unwelcome uh noise um with all these uh appalling
[48:12]allegations. So to to to be cut of all of that I think is completely inevitable
[48:20]um and completely the right thing for uh the king to have done. >> Anthony Seldon, historian and constitutional expert. Uh very good to
[48:31]talk to you tonight. So, uh, politics hub, not quite the normal politics tonight. We've been bringing you this breaking news that the king has begun the formal process to strip the titles
[48:41]from Prince Andrew, who is going to move out of his Windsor home to San Xandringham. Thank you so much to my guests Skito Harry and Ava Evans uh for uh gamely talking about Prince Andrew
[48:52]when they came here to talk about Rachel Reeves. We're going to bring you continuing coverage of this breaking news story throughout the evening here on Sky News. Sarah J is joining you
[49:00]next. Stay with us on Sky News.