[0:00]Coming up next, we're going to talk to Andrew Lowi, the uh historian, the biographer, and the author of Entitled: The Rise and Fall of the House of York.
[0:09]Coming up, the British royal family is coming under intense scrutiny again this week. They were the target of hecklers and
[0:20]demonstrators on a walkabout in Thursday in Essex. Fresh allegations against Andrew Mountbatten Windsor are being made in the wake of the mass release of the Epstein files. The second woman has come forward alleging she was trafficked
[0:31]by Jeffrey Epstein in 2010 for sex with a then prince Andrew in the UK after being taken on a tour of Buckingham Palace. British police are quote assessing the claim. Andrew Mountbatten Windsor has previously denied any
[0:43]wrongdoing related to Epstein. Now stripped of his titles, he's been evicted too from his home at Royal Lodge in Windsor, reportedly in the dead of the night on Monday. Seen on his horse in Windsor but not heard from this week.
[0:54]The lawyer Brad Edwards says his team, his legal team cannot get hold of him to formally put the new allegations to him. And the British Prime Minister is calling for Andrew to testify about what he knows about Epstein before the US
[1:05]Congress. The questions too for King Charles, seen by critics, analysts, and some politicians as ultimately responsible for how the monarchy has or hasn't handled the scandal over the
[1:15]years. It's the latest photo released in the Epstein files appears to show Andrew on all fours over a young woman and that was scattered those images all over the streets of Dedum in Essics yesterday
[1:25]ahead of King Charles and Queen Camila's visit. And there were hecklers too. This is what happened. >> If you don't think these people need justice, then I'm sorry. >> That's not what we're here for today, is
[1:37]it? We are going to walk down because this is the only way to make it clear to people that Andrew should not be let off. Andrew's brother, Prince Edward, was
[1:53]asked about the allegations during a conference in Dubai on Tuesday, the most senior royal to speak about it. Here's what he said. >> I'm not sure this is the audience that is probably the least bit interested in
[2:05]that. So, they all came here to listen to about education solving the future. Um and um but no, I think it's all really important always to remember the victims and and who are the victims in
[2:15]all this. >> The British historian, biographer, and author Andrew Lowey has spent four years investigating the life, livelihoods, and the questionable financial affairs of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and Sarah
[2:26]Ferguson, as well as looking into Andrew's questionable relations with Epstein in his book entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York. I am delighted, Andrew, uh that you join us this evening. Welcome to France 24. I've
[2:38]got to say, first of all, I found the book breathtaking. You actually have to catch your breath in reading it. The character depiction of Andrew, of Sarah Ferguson, is so different to what is and has been projected for years. You
[2:50]document the lives with hundreds of interviews for it. And it starts with the early life. It gives us a picture of a spoiled good-looking middle child prince, the practical joker, the queen's favorite. You twin the narrative with
[3:01]Sarah Ferguson's upbringing. by the end which essentially takes us to what's happening this week. You quote Virginia Gupy saying before she died that it's not over. There are so many people she
[3:12]says in this Andrew it doesn't stop with Gileain Maxwell and you say much more may emerge not just with the release of the FBI files of Epstein and Andrew's sexual antics but the business
[3:22]activities too. So first of all can I get your reaction to what after much delay still with many redactions is finally emerging this week? Yes, I mean it's very satisfying to see
[3:34]that, you know, my research has been vindicated by the release of these documents. I mean, I had a certain amount of criticism when the book came out. People didn't want to believe it. In fact, a lot of the material was taken out, including, for example, the
[3:44]material on Peter Mandlesson, the British ambassador, who's now had to resign. But, um, it does show that network was much wider than we realized. I mean, I knew the relationship with uh
[3:54]Epstein, both of former Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, was much deeper and had gone on much longer than they had claimed, but it's it's good to see proof of that. Uh I I think it does raise all
[4:05]sorts of questions now about whether Andrew should be investigated. Uh I think we now have plenty of evidence that he was involved in sex trafficking. And I think also if Peter Mandlesson is going to be uh investigated for
[4:17]misconduct in public office for leaking private confidential information then Andrew should also be investigated because that's exactly what he was doing. Um I do think the the palace have
[4:27]a lot of questions to answer about what they knew when they knew it uh what they did and what they're going to do because um for many years they've tried to suppress this story. the press were
[4:38]given there were denials followed by legal letters followed by threats. Uh we've seen I've talked to police protection officers who've been now threatened in the last few weeks by the
[4:50]palace are reminded of their obligations under the official secrets act and and uh NDAs and their uh pressure on their pensions not to talk. So instead of
[5:00]actually being open and actually admitting what's going on, they're still trying to shut the story down, which I think is very worrying. Uh the monarchy seems to be at a crossroads. It can uh make itself fit for purpose for the 21st
[5:12]century by adapting to a modern society and being more open or it can continue down the secretive world where I'm afraid uh corruption can be can be um
[5:22]protected because there's no scrutiny. So it's it's it is very very serious. I mean this the situation is also not one of financial and sexual misdemeanor but a story is about to break about which is
[5:33]has a national security aspect to it which is again something I knew about but wasn't able to write about for legal reasons before and within all of that
[5:43]the multi many dimensions many twists that this has got many areas that could be looked at the amount of time this has been going on something that springs to mind is uh the financial settlements
[5:53]Andrew with Andrew Mbatton Windsor and Virginia GF Frey reportedly £10 million an extra2 million on top for charitable donations according to your book which was paid for in part by the queen though
[6:04]Andrew maintains there was no wrongdoing this was happening in the queen's platinum jubilee year in fact this day the 6th of February 2022 was a platinum jubilee would you tell us what wider questions you think the royal
[6:15]establishment has to answer over this issue and are they going to have to at some point >> yes I mean people I mean going right back to his time as a trade envoys this At the beginning of the century, there
[6:27]were complaints about him. People went to Buckingham Palace, the heads of the foreign office, the heads of the intelligence services, uh, and were sent away with a flea in their ear that that people were not going to remove Andrew
[6:39]from his role. Uh, the queen was protecting him. Uh, and that continued. I mean, it's only recently he's he's lost his his knight of the garter, his vice admiral te. Uh, I mean, a whole series of things that could have been
[6:51]done years ago were not done in the hope that this problem would die down. Uh I know that Andrew has destroyed his files in the hope that that would protect him. Uh what he didn't realize was that, you
[7:01]know, there was so much material that been collected in these Epstein files. We've got 3 million pages so far. There's still 3 million pages being kept back. So there's a lot more that still
[7:11]could appear. We've had more women appear who claim to have been trafficked to him, quite independent of the Epstein uh um revelations. So this is a really serious point for the royal family. Uh,
[7:23]and I think they they can no longer just hope the problem's going to go away. They have to actually face up to it. Uh, I think that William is is hoping that he's going to get a clean clean slate
[7:33]when he comes to the throne and not have to clear up this mess. Charles was handed the baton in effect by the queen. She didn't want to deal with it and it looks like Charles is following the same
[7:43]uh procedure. >> I want to get on to William in a moment. It's very interesting insights from your book. You quote a source as well on on the accountability issue from the royal family. You say the who says the family
[7:55]has been sleepwalking to this crisis for a long time. You've just illustrated it clearly and you I just wonder you a little bit more on on how you think King Charles has handled it per personally.
[8:05]And was there a moment you think that the the royal family turned heel on Andrew when they stopped supporting him and withdrew much of the financial support? Was there a particular tipping point as you see it?
[8:17]Yes, I think that the tipping point was actually last October. It was the heckling of the king at Lichfield. So, I think it'll be very interesting to see if the heckling uh now um has some impact. Uh that's when I mean he should
[8:28]have what he should have done months before, indeed years before he he was very firm. He said that he couldn't remove titles and and then suddenly he could. Uh and they finally seemed to be
[8:38]able to prize this Andrew out of of Royal Lodge with his iron cast um lease. Uh I think there's clearly deals been going on behind the scenes. I don't think that uh I think Andrew was paid to
[8:49]move. I think the deal was that the daughters could remain within the royal family, could remain as princesses uh if he and Sarah Ferguson fell on their sword. But I don't think he's going to
[8:59]end up in Sandringham. I think that uh uh he will disappear to the Middle East. The royal family do not want this story continuing. The drip drip feed of revelations is undermining the reputation of the monarchy and actually
[9:11]all the good work the others do. Uh the king had a a very cherished film about his environmental work that was completely unnoticed. No one knows what other members of the royal family have
[9:21]been doing for the past few weeks because every day the stories are about Andrew and Sarah Ferguson. Um I think the king was very foolish. He he drew him back within the fold after the queen
[9:31]died. I think partly on the grounds that better to keep the two of them inside the tent, but you know that was I think very unwise. And I think you'd be very unwise too to get too close to the daughters who I think have various
[9:43]skeletons in their closets. Uh there's been a huge PR campaign to say there are innocent victims of this story, but I'm afraid they're not. Is very interesting. Also, I want to pick up on one particular. There's a
[9:54]police officer, former police officer within your book that you quote talking about the importance of police logs being released on the comingings of goings of uh invitees to Buckingham Palace, saying that it would show the
[10:06]women who did and the women who didn't come through to the palace with Andrew and that would cooperate or help push back against some of the allegations against him.
[10:16]>> Absolutely. I mean, this this policeman used data protection to to get access to the logs because he he knew that Prince uh um Andrew had come back that night. First of all, he was told that they were
[10:27]closed for national security reasons and then that actually they'd been destroyed. But if Andrew wanted to pro uh prove his innocence, all he needs to do is to get statements from these
[10:37]protection officers uh saying where he was on certain days. Um I mean it's interesting that he's disappeared so that the summons any summons can't be delivered against him. That's exactly
[10:49]what happened with Virginia Jeffrey. He disappeared to Balmoral uh so that he couldn't take on the summons. He actually was there during the birth of his first grandchild. Uh and he's had opport plenty of opportunities over the
[11:00]last 15 years to cooperate with the authorities with victims lawyers and others. And he's chosen not to do so. and he's actually refused to show any contrition or apologize. Uh, and this
[11:12]was confirmed to me even last week talking to a member of his staff who said that he can't understand what the problem is. He doesn't think he's done anything wrong. Uh, and just feels he's been victimized. Uh, so it's it's it is,
[11:23]you know, a very difficult problem to deal with, but uh I I think it does need to be addressed by the royal family now. They can no longer uh say that they have nothing to do with them because the fact is he was protected and enabled by them
[11:35]for many years. and I believe continues to be protected. >> It reminds me of of what something you said when the book first came out, I think within the book as well, which one of the things Andrew was said to have been disappointed with most about losing
[11:47]her titles was not wearing the uniforms that seem to hit him more than other things. There are other questions that I know you want scrutiny on and you start to read and you understand why the detail, the allegations that are there.
[11:59]Not only you, but British politicians such as Chris Bryant as well wanting transparency around his business affairs. He was appointed trade envoy as you mentioned from 2001 to 2011. A kind of he ran also a kind of dragon's den
[12:10]style initiative called the pitch for palace. His name was very useful for British politicians and with it there are numerous allegations that Andrew was using them for personal profit from dealings with unscrutable rich powerful
[12:21]regimes figures criticized for human rights abuses or corruption. >> Absolutely. And I mean some of this is now again coming out with the Epstein revelations. But I think there's a very
[12:32]strong argument for a parliamentary investigation into his time as a trade envoy for those 10 years. Uh the foreign office told diplomats not to talk to me. In fact, that encouraged many of them to talk to me. But uh you know we need the
[12:43]former ambassadors in Azabaijan and Kazakhstan in particular but also places like Libya and China to be brought with the heads of the UKTI who were sensibly he was reporting to is in effect a civil
[12:54]servant uh to talk on oath about actually what went on because clearly uh from my research he was shoehorning in meetings for his for example business associate David Roland's he was taking
[13:06]his daughters and we think possibly taking Jeffrey Epstein on these trips. I I've also been trying for five years to get access uh under FOI to the documents from the foreign office and department
[13:17]of business of trade about these trips who he's taking uh and they've used every possible device not to release these papers which should be released
[13:26]not not only under FOI but also under the public records act and so I think if the government have nothing to hide they should be making it very clear now that
[13:36]these documents which go back 20 25 years should be released. Uh and um I I do think that the pressure from the
[13:44]public from social media from uh citizen journalists and from uh journalists who are not in the royal rotor basically in this lobby system that basically trades
[13:56]access for for a very curated story. All those things are driving the story. It's no longer the royals can expect to have this very differential approach to them.
[14:06]uh because if they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be worried about revealing anything. But the the the whole relationship with the royal family depends on trust and respect and that sadly has gone now. So it's questions
[14:17]about dealings with Azabaijan as you say a Libyan gun smuggler uh Kyrgyzstan Kazakhstan which he has denied any wrongdoing but also his link it's worth saying to Yang Tangbo this is one source
[14:29]within your book calls him a useful idiot for the Chinese government Andrew that Yang Tangbo described as a close confidant of Andrew at one stage since banned from entering the UK on national security grounds of alleged ties to the
[14:39]Chinese Communist Party's United uh front work department which conducts influence operations just tell us about that area that that you would like to see scrutiny on? >> Yes. Well, I mean there's certainly a
[14:50]national security aspect to it. In fact, I'm breaking a story tomorrow which will uh talk about this. Uh people have been focused on the Chinese spies around him. Uh there was another man called Johnny
[15:00]Horn who was basically bankrolling Sarah Ferguson uh who has close links both to the North Korean government and the Chinese government that I I think would be worthy of investigation. uh and I
[15:12]think the security u uh tension services abroad saw that the easiest way to penetrate British society was through greedy royals because there was so little scrutiny uh and transparency about the way they operated. Uh I think
[15:23]the biggest story that's now emerging is that Epstein was a Russian asset uh that he was operating basically uh a compromat using uh honey traps uh and
[15:34]Andrew was caught in this. I do report on that in the book. a man called Tim Riley, an academic at Cambridge, talks about that. Uh um but it's very clear that in Libya, in the Middle East, in
[15:45]China, but particularly in the Central Asian republics, he was caught in honey traps with prostitutes who were supplied to him. Uh and there is now, you know, some concerns about what information he
[15:57]may have relayed under this blackmail. Um so yeah, the story gets bigger and bigger. Um it gets worse and worse. uh and yet we get this silence um in in the
[16:07]hope that somehow that that the problem will will go away. You know there are wider questions for other senior British uh figures. I mean there it's a former British prime minister who also I had to
[16:18]take out of the book who I think will uh people will begin to scrutinize in the coming days. >> Very interesting. Sometimes with your points Andrew where it takes us it's knowing which particular point to pick
[16:29]up because there are so many threads to this. I want to ask you what you talked about a moment ago about Epstein being an alleged spy and you there's a number of things you cite in the book as you mentioned. You talk about first of all a Sunday Times article that British
[16:41]intelligence chief had concerns that Russia may have obtained compromat compromised material Andrew uh on Andrew on the Epstein scandal. There's a former deputy in the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office who fled to Moscow with
[16:53]copies of files on Andrew and got in touch with a man called Pavll I think Bordinov a member of a mentor for Putin. That's right, Mark. >> And there's there's also, if I'm right in saying there's another element to
[17:05]this, which is Epstein's former mentor, Steven Hoffenberg, giving an interview suggesting Andrew was Epstein's quote Super Bowl trophy that he planned to sell Andrew's secrets to the Israeli
[17:14]intelligence agency Mosad. >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh, in fact, the other Super Bowl um trophy was was Bill Clinton, who is beginning to emerge in these stories and will be has been
[17:25]subpoenaed to talk. It be interesting to see what he says. But uh yes, the Russian intelligence angle is is a strong one. Uh I I've actually seen uh uh intelligence documents talking about
[17:36]Andrew's um connections with Russian intelligence uh gang or gangs that were run by Russian intelligence dealing with sex trafficking and money laundering. Uh
[17:48]but it appears that uh an uh that Epstein had close association with Robert Maxwell uh who was is now revealed to been a spy for Mossad and for the Russians. He was involved in
[17:59]money laundering bringing money into into the America from Russia. Trump was also involved in this. Uh and um that
[18:09]the money the source of his income comes from from these Russian intelligence sources originally, not from uh as we thought uh being a bounty hunter or
[18:18]hiding people's uh sums of money. So I mean the more and more questions emerge as more and more information uh is revealed. But uh as I say, it's disturbing that there's now a national
[18:29]security element to the story as well as the financial and sexual uh misdemeanor. >> I mentioned again that Andrew continues to deny all and any wrongdoing apart from being ashamed of his contact, he
[18:40]says, with Epstein after he was convicted of child sex abuse and conspiracy to uh sex traffic minors under the amount of pressure and having been removed from Royal Lodge. Do you
[18:51]see a scenario, Andrew, from your work on him, a likelihood that he will give testimony in Congress? We're hearing reports this week in in Sandringham that the staff don't want to work with him as
[19:01]well. I just that sense of what you might think is going on whether he would be likely to or there's some visceral opposition that you see uh happening. >> I mean, no. I mean, he's not commented
[19:13]on any of the allegations except to deny them. I mean, he's never I mean, for for 15 years, he hasn't answered any of the questions put to him by the press on to write a reply. As I say, he's had there
[19:23]was a mutual legal assistance treaty which the Americans had hoped would would persuade him to talk. He didn't. He has no obligation to talk to the Senate. He certainly won't do so. It
[19:32]would only implicate him further. Uh he everyone around him doesn't want him to talk because they can see just what a bad witness he is from the NewsNight interview. So, um that's not going to
[19:43]happen. the only way he's going to be persuaded to talk is if he is investigated by law enforcement and is forced to do so uh under under oath. >> One thing I didn't realize until reading
[19:54]your book is that if it doesn't go well in Sandringham, the other options he has, he has an apparent palace in Abu Dhabi, doesn't he? A gift. Could he go there?
[20:05]>> Yes. Yes. I mean, absolutely. He's very close to many of the rulers in in the Middle East. Uh and they treat him almost as a son. uh he's also very close
[20:15]to to the rulers in Bahrain. So that's another possibility. Uh I don't think there's an extradition treaty treaty with Bahrain which would make that an attractive place to go. Uh and um but
[20:26]yes, I mean there is a palace that he has the use of. It's actually fully staffed ready for him at any moment. Uh and um that's why I think it's it's very likely that he he will do at some point
[20:38]a midnight flip to the Middle East where there is no press scrutiny and where the royal family will will be relieved to know uh that there won't be pictures on the front page of him waving cheerily to
[20:49]crowds uh because he is clearly a huge embarrassment to them uh and um parking him in the Middle East might solve a lot of their problems. And something you said right at the start, Andrew, when
[21:00]the time comes for William to be king, something that struck me in the book, uh, sort close to Williams, that he believes Andrew is abusing his property, his privilege there. This is presumably
[21:11]Royal Lodge, that he also loathes Sarah Ferguson, according to the source, who knows both William and Harry, and that he the quote was, "I guarantee the first thing
[21:22]William does when he eventually becomes king is to get them evicted." Wow. >> Absolutely. I think William doesn't like him personally. Uh Andrew's been very
[21:33]rude about Katherine. Uh but he can also see the reputational damage. He doesn't want to inherit this mess from his father. He's putting quite a lot of pressure on his father to deal with this. Um
[21:44]uh and uh you know he he I think has a very different view of the monarchy. He doesn't have feel any sympathy towards uh Andrew in the way that Charles does to his younger brother. Charles gave uh
[21:56]I think an undertaking to their mother that he would take care of Andrew who clearly is is is on. There are clearly mental health problems here. I think I
[22:04]mean this is not normal behavior. Um so yeah, I mean I think William is very frustrated by what's going on. He hasn't spoken up yet. I I suspect he will if
[22:14]his father doesn't. uh because clearly this um the number of the members of the royal family are are supporting charities dealing with with traffic woman with abuse. Uh and it doesn't look
[22:26]very good if if a member of the royal family has been involved in this sort of action. I can tell from talking to Andrew there's clearly uh an extended book being written and possibly I imagine
[22:38]other books as well given what you've just talked to to me about the wider house of of York and investigations allegations that you'd like to see answers to and as to William he apparently has a unsavory nickname for
[22:48]Andrew which we won't mention here but if you want to know you'll have to read the book Lowi fantastic fantastic to talk to you tonight thank you so much for your time thank you >> to talk to you >> and you author of entitled the rise and
[23:00]fall of the House of York. And as I say, uh, Andrew, uh, Mount Batton, Windsor, denying any wrongdoing.