[0:00]President Trump landed in Scotland just moments ago for a trip that will combine his personal business with this country's business. And while he may be hoping to leave the ongoing controversy
[0:10]over his administration's handling of the Epstein case behind, the president raised new questions as he spoke to reporters before leaving the White House. Mr. Trump today repeatedly praised Deputy Attorney General Todd
[0:22]Blanch, who previously served as his personal lawyer. Blanch met privately today with Epstein's longtime girlfriend and accomplice Gain Maxwell for a second day in a row. The president also
[0:34]repeatedly dodging questions on whether he's considering a pardon or commutation for Maxwell, who's serving a 20-year prison sentence for sex trafficking.
[0:45]>> Well, I don't know about the meeting. I know it's taking place. And uh he's a fantastic man. He's a great attorney and people should really focus on how well
[0:55]the country is doing or they should focus on the fact that Barack Hussein Obama led a coup. >> Have you heard about interview or clemency for doing
[1:07]>> Well, I don't want to talk about that. What I do want to say is that Todd is a great attorney. >> Would you consider a pardon or a commutation for Elen Maxwell? If >> it's something I haven't thought about.
[1:17]It's really recommended. It's I'm allowed to do it, but it's something I have not thought about. >> But you would consider Maxwell. Is that >> I can't talk about that now because, you
[1:27]know, it's a very sensitive uh interview going on. >> Can you trust what she's telling him? She's a convicted trafficker who's eager to get out of prison. >> Well, you know, he's a professional
[1:37]lawyer. I think he uh he's been through things like this before. But, you know, you should focus on Clinton. You should focus on the president of Harvard, the former president of Harvard. You should
[1:49]focus on some of the hedge fund guys. I'll give you a list. >> Now, just moments ago, after landing in Scotland, Mr. Trump was asked again
[1:58]about Maxwell, telling reporters, quote, "This is no time to be talking about pardons." But again, notably not ruling out the possibility. Maxwell's attorney said today that no offer of clemency has
[2:10]been made. Meanwhile, congressional Democrats are sounding the alarm about Blanch's meeting with Maxwell, calling it suspicious as they try to keep Americans attention on the Trump
[2:20]administration's handling of the case. Let's not forget Miss Maxwell is a convicted sex trafficker and has already been charged with lying under oath. We
[2:31]also think, by the way, that she probably wants a pardon from Donald Trump. And so her meeting with Trump's Department of Justice cannot be trusted.
[2:42]>> Under no circumstances should anyone from Donald Trump's Department of Justice be allowed to privately interview Jizlain Maxwell. The
[2:52]conflict of interest just stares you in the face and it's unacceptable. Now, it all comes as the Wall Street Journal reports more notable contributors to
[3:02]that 2003 Epstein birthday book, which it says included a quote body letter for Mr. Trump. Among those other names, former Democratic President Bill Clinton. A spokesperson for Clinton
[3:13]declined to comment on the Wall Street Journal story. NBC News has not verified the reports about that birthday book, and the president today again denied writing the note.
[3:24]You maintain you did not write a letter for Jeffrey Epstein's birthday. >> I don't even know what they're talking about. Now, somebody could have written a letter and used my name, but that's happened a lot. All you have to do is
[3:35]take a look at the dossier, the fake dossier. Everything's fake with that administration. Everything's fake with the Democrats. >> Joining me now is White House correspondent Von Hillyard, law enforcement and intelligence
[3:46]correspondent Tom Winter, and senior national political reporter Sahil Kapoor. Von, let me start with you. As much as President Trump says he wants this story to go away, boy, he really
[3:56]gave it fresh oxygen today. What do you make of some of the comments we heard from him from the south lawn? >> And he's not ruling out clemency for Gain Maxwell. I think if you're talking about oxygen, that has to be chief among
[4:07]them. A woman who was convicted of sex trafficking, very, very serious crimes. This is somebody who the president is
[4:16]openly not completely outright rejecting that he would potentially give a pardon or commute the sentence of. She's currently set to serve time till she's about 80 years old. And we still do not
[4:28]have specifics about what the day and a half worth of interview exactly what the purpose of that interview between his deputy attorney general and Gain Maxwell
[4:39]and the Talassi courthouse is ultimately going to lead to whether they will seek to try to bring new charges. But we know from the attorney for Galain Maxwell leaving the courthouse here today,
[4:51]suggesting that she did not invoke any privileges, that she answered every single one of the deputy attorney general's questions, and that there was a whole range of issues discussed here.
[5:02]So for the president, he is not outright ignoring it. Instead, openly uh not denying outright that he would potentially provide clemency for Gla Maxwell. Well, Van, and you've been
[5:14]covering this story for quite some time. As you know, there are plenty of conspiracy theories swirling around the Epstein matter. For those who believe in those conspiracy theories, does having
[5:26]the president's former personal attorney, who is now the deputy attorney general, run the risk of only adding to that air to compounding those conspiracy theories?
[5:36]>> Right? These are the same allies and base of supporters that have long defended the president through his criminal indictments, the hush money payment trial, of which Donald Trump was found guilty. But the lead defense
[5:48]attorney was in fact Todd Blanch, the man that was conducting this interview here today. And in so many ways, I think for the first time in the last decade of Donald Trump's political relevance, you
[5:58]see skepticism not only among voters, you know, polling had suggested that 50% of Republicans were not satisfied with this White House's handling of the Epstein files, but also Republican
[6:09]lawmakers, including James Comr, the chair of the House Oversight Committee, who has said that a pardon or a commutation would be unacceptable under any circumstances for Gain Maxwell, and
[6:19]that they want the records themselves of the Epstein files in that effectively going down and having that interview conversation with Gla Maxwell isn't good
[6:28]enough for House Republicans and that they want to see the files themselves. There is pressure that it is very been very clearly made. Will not relent until
[6:38]more answers are provided, some of which the White House has been hesitant to give to this point. >> And Vaughn, let's shift to the president's trip to Scotland. Of course, he's just landed. What are the key goals
[6:49]of this trip? What are you going to be watching for? >> Right. The president first is going to be heading to two of his golf courses. One of these is a new 18 course uh uh
[7:00]golf 18hole golf course that is going to be opened that he is going to be there for the ribbon cutting for. But there is also a business component of this. The White House has made clear. Just earlier today, the head of the EU suggested that
[7:11]she will be meeting personally with the president on Sunday at a time in which the president continues to hold out and striking a trade agreement with the
[7:22]European Union upon arriving here to Scotland. Just moments ago, he suggested that it is a 50/50 chance that he strikes a deal with the EU before new additional tariffs are set to go into
[7:34]effect on August 1st. But the president is also going to be meeting with UK Prime Minister Kier Starmer on Monday. This is a 4-day trip here to Scotland. Quite a time for the president to leave
[7:44]the mainland United States, but also a very important time overseas as his White House attempts to strike these these trade deals that have been sort of
[7:54]farreaching and far from being able to wholly be uh ultimately signed off on here over the last months. >> Yeah. An immense amount of urgency given that self-imposed oneweek deadline.
[8:05]Vaughn, thank you so much for your great reporting. Let me turn now to Tom Winter. So Tom, President Trump kind of danced around the possibility of a commutation or pardon. Of course, he
[8:15]didn't rule one out. Beyond those options, though, what could happen next? Well, there could be a what's called a rule 35 that could be filed, Kristen.
[8:26]And that's a situation where it's actually going to be federal prosecutors who've got to come before the court and say, "Your honor, in the year after she was sentenced, so that would bring this
[8:36]into 2023." From that point on, she has developed new information that is helpful to the US government in some way, shape, or form and then make an argument before the court that her
[8:47]sentence should be reduced. It can't be information that she knew going back to the mid-200s or or uh leading up to her trial. Uh because that information should have been disclosed already.
[8:57]That's the way the rules worked. There is a slight caveat. If she knew something, say back in 2005 that she didn't think would at all be relevant and it is today. Uh then that's something that she could bring forth. So that's the way to do this through the
[9:09]courts. Door number two, if you will, is the one that you just referenced. the idea of a commutation, which would be a reduction or an elimination of her prison sentence or an outright pardon, which would clear the conviction as
[9:20]well. So, those are kind of the two paths here going forward. The third, of course, is that she stays in jail. They had a good discussion and that's the end of it. So, we'll just have to see what comes up in the coming days and weeks uh
[9:31]as it pertains to her case. >> Undoubtedly, I know you'll be watching it very closely. Now, as we mentioned, Todd Blanch was Mr. Trump's personal attorney. Senate Minority Leader Chuck
[9:41]Schumer saying it's a conflict of interest for him to conduct these interviews. Tom, what does the law say? >> Yeah, I mean the law here it's we're really in uncharted territory, Kristen.
[9:51]I can't think over the entire course of my career where a deputy attorney general has specifically conducted an interview as some sort of an investigation even though just a couple of weeks ago in that memo they said that
[10:02]it was closed. Uh so it's not clear to me exactly what the legal role of Todd Blanch is here. And if there wasn't anybody in the room, another agent, another prosecutor, uh it's it adds even
[10:13]more complication to the issue because he would then be the sole witness. So then who moves uh the court if they're going to go that way in order to make the argument uh that Maxwell should have her sentence reduced? It's just it's so
[10:25]unusual. A deputy attorney general might get an email, might get a quick phone call on the highest of priority cases, and this is certainly high priority, uh about what was going on in the
[10:35]investigation to actively take a part in it. uh is something that is highly unusual and so I think a lot of people have questions certainly the victim's attorneys who have interviewed her on a number of occasions including where she
[10:46]lied according to prosecutors they have questions about this arrangement too >> so you take me to my next question have we heard anything from the victims >> yeah the victims are starting to speak
[10:56]out uh on our uh on our on our sister properties on NBC News now uh talking about the idea that they have been completely unheard from uh heard of
[11:06]again I mean that's The whole reason why we got to this point is that the victims were really upset about the nonprosecution agreement and the fact that they were never consulted that led to a court action. Court documents
[11:17]started coming out and that's how this Epstein case over the years as I have so much documentation on it. That's how this Epstein case over the years really started to gather a lot of attention and snowball because there were more filings
[11:29]and more questions that were raised, more information that came out as to how this nonprosecution agreement uh came to be in the first place. The victims complain they weren't heard then that's
[11:40]their exact complaint now and you talk to any victim's expert Kristen, they will tell you that victims being left out of the loop is something that really haunts them and really hurts them. And
[11:51]already one of the witnesses in Galain Maxwell's trial several years back died by suicide. So this is really uh raising a lot of questions not only for their attorneys but for these women themselves.
[12:01]>> Absolutely. Tom Winter, great reporting today and all week long. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Got it. >> So Sahil, let me turn to you now. Democrats of course have taken up this
[12:12]Epstein issue as well. It seems like of course they're using it as a hammer against President Trump. Are they planning to bring this to their constituents over the recess? What are
[12:22]you going to be watching for in that regard? >> Yeah, it's a number of different things, Kristen. Democrats see this as a special opportunity to crack the MAGA coalition uh not just to depress Trump's base,
[12:32]which they do see as one opportunity, but to also peel away some Trump voters, some uh Trump supporters in 2024 who are not exactly diehard MAGA figures, but kind of anti-establishment,
[12:43]anti-government, anti-corruption, and saw Trump as a vehicle to advance some of their goals. uh they see this as an opportunity to weaken Trump with certain characteristics, certain issues where
[12:54]he's strong with his base on, including perceptions of honesty, uh transparency, willingness to fight the system, fight corruption. And Democrats are are really escalating this on their way out uh you
[13:04]know to recess. They're calling this the Epstein recess, noting that House Republican leaders recessed early in order to avoid votes on this issue. I've obtained a memo by House Rep House House
[13:14]uh Democratic leaders encouraging members to raise the alarm on the Epstein files calling it a top messaging priority and even offering some guidance as to how they can do that. I've also
[13:24]heard from some Democrats who are a little bit shocked at the power of this issue, Kristen. They thought this was going to be a bit of a nothing burger, maybe a one day or two day issue and just bounce off Donald Trump like most things do, like most things do, you
[13:35]know, with with Teflon Dawn. But that has not happened here. this issue has staying power and uh Democrats are very very eager to capitalize on it and continue to capitalize on it especially
[13:45]as they see Trump really struggling to try to change the topic to other issues. >> And yet Sel I think one of the big unanswered questions that looms so large
[13:55]is how will this play electorally because of course a after the 2024 elections one of the lessons for Democrats was we need to stay laser
[14:05]focused on the economy on pocketbook issues. How much is there concern right now within the Democratic party that this could overshadow that pocketbook message?
[14:15]>> I think they've come around to the view, Kristen, that they can do both. You know, that's why some Democrats initially when this first broke, you heard multiple of them saying, uh, no, the Epstein issue is just a distraction from the fact that, you know, the
[14:27]president doesn't want to talk about the big beautiful bill that doesn't want to talk about the recisions package. It turns out you can talk about uh Epstein on one hand, but also, you know, talk about the big beautiful bill, the the Medicaid cuts and the various things
[14:39]that Democrats want to highlight. At the same time, you don't necessarily have to choose because of the staying power, because of the escape velocity uh that the Epstein issue has. Uh so I I mean I think it's been a it's been a bit of a
[14:50]journey for Democrats to finally discover an issue where uh Trump is not able to control his base where he has completely lost control of House Republican leaders uh and you know in
[15:00]the way they operate and they are eager to milk this for as long as they can. >> Yeah, it's the first time that we've seen these types of divisions within the Republican party in the second Trump
[15:10]administration and among the MAGA base. Sahill, as always, thank you for your fantastic reporting. We thank you for watching and remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC
[15:21]News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.