[0:00]Public pressure continues to mount for the Trump administration to release more documents relating to Jeffrey Epstein. The disgraced financeier who was found dead in his jail cell in August of 2019,
[0:10]one month after he was arrested on federal sex trafficking charges. Attorney General Pam Bondi released what was described as the first phase of declassified files relating to Epstein back in February. That was largely met
[0:22]with disappointment as no major bombshells, including a list of associates involved in the sex trafficking operation, were revealed. A July memo from the Department of Justice said there was no client list, Epstein
[0:34]died by suicide, and that no more documents related to the case would be released. Barry Lavine, author of The Spider inside the criminal web of Jeffrey Epste and Golain Maxwell, has
[0:44]been digging into the deceased ultra-wealthy sex offender since the mid200s. Lavine joins Forb's true crime to discuss the questions he still has regarding the Epstein case.
[0:56][Music] Hi everybody. I'm Britney Lewis, a host of Forbes TV. Joining me now is Barry Lavine. He has been covering Jeffrey
[1:06]Epstein for years now. He also wrote a book on his criminal exploits called The Spider: Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epste and Glenna Maxwell. Barry, thank you so much for joining me.
[1:16]>> Thank you, Britney, for having me again. Like I said, you have been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein now, the disgraced sex offender, for decades. And I'm curious
[1:27]to start off the conversation. What are your thoughts about this renewed interest? Because it has been 6 years since Jeffrey Epstein was arrested, around 6 years since his death, and
[1:38]there are still more questions that remain, still more answers that people are looking for. What do you make of the fact that this is an issue that's not going away? This is a story that's not
[1:48]only not going away, but gaining even more traction. >> Yes, Britney, I have to tell you, I'm just amazed at the level of interest in
[1:58]this particular case. Now, I think it is even greater certainly than it was at the time of his arrest and then of course the subsequent uh uh death uh
[2:10]behind bars in New York. There was of course interest at the time, but the level of interest now is as red-hot as
[2:21]I mean it's almost unbelievable. And a lot of course has to do with the dynamic now of President Trump and questions about the extent of his relationship
[2:33]with Jeffrey Epstein. But more so than that, we're finally at a point now where there's so much interest, not only among
[2:42]the American public and Donald Trump's MAGA base, who of course have believed in conspiracy theories related to this
[2:51]story for years and years. But we are finally getting to the point, I hope, of actually getting full transparency on the Epstein files, the
[3:01]files that the FBI has. We're talking about 300 gigabytes. We're talking about material that could easily fill
[3:11]um you know a couple hundred thousand pages of documents. Plus, of course, there's additional physical evidence and and videotapes that the government is
[3:21]sitting on. And the level of interest is, you know, I I I thought about this the other day. had they just released
[3:32]the documents as they had promised, as his attorney general Pam Bondi had promised months ago after she invited those um conservative influencers to the
[3:43]White House and gave them the white binders that said phase one of the Epstein documents along with the fact that they were going to release a phase two down the road, which is where we're
[3:54]at now. the fact that over Fourth of July weekend that they came out with a two page memo and basically said Epstein committed suicide, there's no
[4:06]blackmail, there's no client list, and it doesn't warrant the release of any material that has just sent people through the
[4:15]roof in terms of how upset they are uh particularly among his base, among the public. Uh, and you know, and of course
[4:25]I'm in touch with with some of his victims. This whole thing is traumatizing. They want to get to the bottom of all this. And so they want to see along with me and and and the
[4:37]American public, they want to see the full um disclosure of all the documents. And I think that that July 7th memo from the DOJ was so surprising because Pam
[4:47]Bondi, the attorney general herself said earlier in the year, I have that client list sitting right on my desk. Now they're saying there's no client list. Essentially, there's nothing left to see
[4:59]here. But there's a lot left to see according to most of the American public and we want to see it. That's what people are saying from both parties, Americans from all corners of this
[5:10]country. And in your book in 2020, this is what you wrote. These are the questions that you still had five years ago. How the sex trafficking op enterprise operated, who was involved, and what evidence his alleged
[5:22]surveillance apparatus captured? Because you write that victims testified and said that he was taping everything in his properties. So, are we any closer to
[5:33]getting any of these questions answered? I mean, what are the big questions you still have? Well, I just wrote um this past week uh an essay in the New York
[5:42]Times opinion section on on I expanded it to nine questions about what may be in the Epstein files. And we can we can start off with, you know, with the
[5:53]video. I think that um while the government has acknowledged that there's 10,000 uh tapes of
[6:02]child abuse, that doesn't answer the question of what happened to the secret surveillance video systems that Jeffrey
[6:12]Epstein had in all of his homes. You know what what's interesting and it's ironic that before he was investigated by Palm Beach police at his mansion
[6:22]there um in beginning in uh 2005. Jeffrey Epstein had asked the Palm Beach
[6:32]police to help him install secret surveillance video cameras in his home. He said that he feared that some of his
[6:39]staff might be stealing from him. And so some uh officers from the Palm Beach Police came over and worked with his u
[6:51]technician to install video cameras. And these video cameras were actually used by Jeffrey Epstein to record
[7:00]interactions he had with victims. But more importantly, the possibility that those video cameras captured interactions between
[7:12]wealthy friends of his and some of his victims. And this this same operation took place not only in Palm Beach, it took place at his mansion on the upper
[7:24]east side of New York. It took place at Little St. James, his island in the Virgin Islands. It took place at his Zoro ranch in New Mexico and it also
[7:35]took place at his apartment that he had in in Paris. So there was video of interactions between Jeffrey Epstein and
[7:45]these young women and children, but also some of the other men that he had entertained. And I want to know what happened to all those videotapes. We
[7:56]know in one of the evidence listings that there's an evidence listing for 70 CDs. Now, what do those CDs show? I think that that's a really good
[8:10]question. And I think another question that people want to know is who was involved here? Because Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and was sitting in jail until he died over charges of sex
[8:20]trafficking. These crimes allegedly involved minors. Gain Maxwell, his accomplice, is still sitting in jail right now for sex trafficking crimes,
[8:30]sex crimes related to minors. And so I think a big question that people have is if they were operating really this global sex trafficking ring, who else
[8:39]was involved aside from them? And where is the justice? Where are they are are they going to get in trouble? I mean, the one question you had in the New York Times is who were the clients implicated in Mr. Epstein's sex trafficking
[8:51]operation? How are we going to get answers to that? >> Well, that is of course at the, you know, at the top of the list in terms of what the public really wants to know.
[9:03]And we know from the evidence logs that there was the contents of more than 40 computers that Jeffrey Epstein had across all of his homes and in his
[9:14]office in the uh Virgin Islands. And what's the content of those computers? Are there databases in terms of they may
[9:23]not necessarily be a client list with a list of names of men that Jeffrey Epstein put out some of his victims to, but I would think that we could generate
[9:35]a a list of questionable individuals who not only Jeffrey Epstein associated with but may have actually taken part in
[9:46]the sex trafficking. And I am interested in in looking into the files of trying to understand what the FBI did in terms
[9:58]of trying to cooperate the accounts of several victims who referenced other men. This goes beyond his chief accuser,
[10:08]Virginia, who said that she had been trafficked to Prince Andrew, one of, you know, a member of the royal family. Andrew, of
[10:18]course, has denied any wrongdoing. He denied he's denied even knowing or meeting Virginia Guprey, even though there's a photo uh that shows them
[10:28]together. Uh he was sued by her and he paid an out of court settlement to her of many millions of dollars.
[10:38]I want to know what the FBI did and is this included in the files that would show what actions they took to look into the allegations and claims made by the
[10:50]various victims? Did they put any of these men under surveillance? Did they attempt to contact them? Did they look
[10:58]into their um phone records or emails? Uh it's extremely important to understand
[11:08]that this case goes back to when the um Palm Beach police first alerted the FBI after their initial investigation
[11:18]in 2006 and the FBI came in and did an initial investigation and and we're going to file 50 counts of
[11:28]charges against Jeffrey Epstein. And of course, as the American public knows, Alexander Aosta, who was the US attorney
[11:37]for the Southern District in Florida, hammered out a nonprosecution agreement with uh Jeffrey Epstein's lawyers. And
[11:48]so Jeffrey Epstein only had to plead guilty to two char two state charges of prostitution and prostitution of solicitation of a minor in which he
[11:59]received only a sentence of 18 months in jail. And in fact he only served 13 months in the county lockup and during a
[12:09]lot of that time he was allowed out on work release. So, it's been called a slap on the on the wrist sentence, and Jeffrey Epstein dismissed
[12:21]it afterwards and said, "What I did is no worse than stealing a bagel." But the FBI continued their investigation,
[12:31]particularly after the Miami Herald published its uh perversion of justice series on him and and the details of
[12:41]that sweetheart deal that took place in uh 2008. And so they interviewed new victims or they interviewed victims for the first
[12:51]time that they had not spoken to before. We need to see those documents. We need to see. I'm completely fine with the redaction of the victim's names. I'm
[13:01]even fine with the redaction of third party names, but I would like to see the specifics of the investigation that we could learn from the Epstein FBI files
[13:13]that could tell us the various moves that the FBI made or maybe didn't make. And if they didn't make those moves, there's some explaining to do. Did they
[13:23]receive additional pressure from high up not to investigate certain people? We know that victims have named politicians in the
[13:33]US. They've named uh individual, you know, uh politicians from other countries. They've named uh uh people in
[13:45]the um science community in in America. uh very important people uh had been named by these victims in terms of
[13:55]taking part in this sex trafficking and I want to know what the FBI did or didn't do to investigate these men >> and just when you see the amount of
[14:05]victims and how he was able to operate this I mean it's just mindboggling you in your book describe it as a pedophiliac pyramid scheme but what's a
[14:15]trend for years and decades is that Jeffrey Epstein seemed to use money as both a weapon and a shield. And I think for most of his life, his adult life rather, Jeffrey Epste was this elusive,
[14:27]ultra-wealthy figure. He was compared to people like fictional characters like Jay Gatsby, like the talented Mr. Ripley. He described himself as an experienced and successful financeier
[14:38]and businessman. According to your reporting, I mean, his his resume is a little light for that title, but he was massively wealthy at the time of his death. His estate says that he was worth
[14:47]$578 million. So, I think a question that a lot of people have, including yourself, is twofold when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein's finances. One, how did he get so rich? And two, how was he
[14:59]financing this sex trafficking operation? >> Yes, of course, these are also questions that the um massive amount of material
[15:09]in the FBI files could help answer. There's also questions um as to did Jeffrey Epstein have ties to intelligence, did he have ti any ties
[15:19]in the US to the government? And also did he have any ties to the Israeli MSAD? Okay. Uh Alexander Acasta had allegedly said that Jeffrey Epstein was
[15:31]part of intelligence and that also played into the fact that he received that kind of slap on the wrist conviction. So, not only is he, you
[15:41]know, is there a massive amount of money here that exchanged hands, but there's also questions of intelligence and who knew about this operation.
[15:52]The um I I've been thank I've been very happy to hear through all that's come out in the past two weeks that Senator
[16:02]uh Ron Weiden from Oregon has been going down the money road. He's been, you know, looking into Jeffrey Epstein's
[16:10]finances and he's reported that he's uncovered the fact that there's been almost five that there were almost 5,000
[16:19]wire transfers totaling $1 billion of money that Jeffrey Epstein moved through Russian banks to not only pay out some
[16:31]of his victims, but paid other individuals under cir under under suspicious circumstances. And you know,
[16:41]after Jeffrey Epstein was arrested down in Florida and received that slap on the wrist uh sentencing, he was wary of
[16:51]alerting authorities to his um continued sex trafficking away from the eyes, the prying eyes of New York police
[17:02]and also Palm Beach, Florida police. So he moved really moved his operation to his island in the Virgin Islands and he
[17:11]used international fixers to deliver him victims. These were young women and children that were flown to
[17:21]him from places like Russia and Turkey and other countries in Eastern Europe. And they would be they would fly in they
[17:31]would be flown into the Virgin Islands and then fed on boats to his island. And the attorney general in the in the
[17:41]Virgin Islands, Denise George, after Jeffrey Epstein's death, launched an investigation into what went on there at the island. and she had learned that
[17:52]airport personnel had seen girls as young as 12 years old getting off of planes and being sent to Jeffrey Epstein's island home.
[18:03]Now you have now that raises alarm bells in the sense of who are the men on the other side who were putting these girls
[18:12]on planes with the intention for Jeffrey Epstein to sexually abuse them. Okay, they were model fixers and they were
[18:22]other inter international individuals. I want to know in those files what information the FBI has about that
[18:31]operation and are there any men that they could work with other countries to possibly apprehend and charge in connection to Jeffrey
[18:41]Epstein's crimes because these men were enablers. They they did things that were almost as worse as Jeffrey Epstein and Galen
[18:53]Maxwell in terms of targeting young young women and children and sending them to a convicted sexual
[19:04]predator across you know um into America. Uh now we know that one man uh his name is Jeanluke
[19:15]Brunell. He was a French modeling scout from Paris. After Jeffrey Epstein's arrest, he was arrested in Paris, France on unrelated
[19:25]rape charges and he died behind bars in a similar fashion to Jeffrey Epstein. Now, we know that Mr. Brunell had been
[19:35]part of Jeffrey Epstein's operation. There's photographs of him with Jeffrey Epstein and Gain Maxwell. uh there's uh
[19:45]documentation showing the two together. Now, he of course is dead, but there are other men who may still be out there who took part in this operation. Let's get
[19:56]to the bottom of that. And let's get to the bottom of how Jeffrey Epstein made his money and how that money was distributed. We know that Jeffrey
[20:06]Epstein had two great financial benefactors. One was Lesie Wexner who was the founder of the LB brands.
[20:17]He worked with Jeffrey Epstein in the earliest days. Jeffrey Epstein uh became his financial consultant. Jeff and um uh
[20:28]a financial advisor. He even gave Jeffrey Epstein power of attorney. This was remarkable at the time and raised a lot of questions among
[20:39]individuals. Now Mr. Wexner has denied all knowledge of any wrongdoing relating to Jeffrey Epstein. He simply said he
[20:50]was completely unaware of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing. And Mr. Wexner has never been investigated by law
[20:59]enforcement as to anything that would have been any type of criminality. Uh, in fact, Leslie Wexner
[21:09]said that Jeffrey Epstein um stole money from him and Jeffrey Epstein apparently paid some of that money back through making donations to a charity in the
[21:20]name of Lesie Wexner's wife. But Jeffrey Epstein received multiple millions of dollars from Les Wexner. And Jeffrey
[21:30]Epstein also received upwards of $160 million from Leon Black, a a who was co-founder of the Apollo Global Fund
[21:42]here in New York and a financial wizard. Now, Mr. Black also has denied any wrongdoing. He's denied any knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's
[21:53]crimes and he also has never been um under any type of investigation by law enforcement. But the combination of the
[22:04]monies from both Mr. Wexner and Mr. Black really seeded Jeffrey Epstein's
[22:13]criminality in a sense. And Denise George, the uh former attorney general in the Virgin Islands, said that the
[22:24]company Jeffrey Epstein had created in the Virgin Islands, a company called Southern Trust, was actually a front for criminality.
[22:34]and she went after Jeffrey Epstein's estate and the co-executives of his estate who
[22:45]you know should should be speaking I believe um to um authorities and and politicians in
[22:57]America to kind of explain the whole financial structure of Jeffrey Epstein. He had, by the way, Britney,
[23:07]more than 150 different bank accounts and he used multiple banks. And over time, victims have sued JP Morgan Chase
[23:18]and Deutsche Bank for kind of looking the other way or not following through on warnings that they had received
[23:28]about Jeffrey Epstein. And both banks made financial settlements with the victims to the tune of more than $200 million.
[23:39]So the whole side of Jeffrey Epstein's finances, how he made his money, are there other individuals that we don't
[23:49]know about, billionaires who also gave him money for financial help? Are there names that we don't know about?
[24:00]This would be very important to learn from the FBI files. And it's not only the information about how he made his money, but how he took his money and
[24:10]used it to basically pay for his sex trafficking ring over the course of two decades. So
[24:20]there's a lot of questions and it's important to find out are there individuals who should be brought up on financial crimes related to this
[24:31]scandal. >> Someone who people think could hold a lot of these answers is Gain Maxwell and she's arguably one of his biggest enablers. She's sitting in jail right
[24:41]now for 20 years over sex crimes including minors like you and I were discussing discussing. And in your book, you described Jeffrey Epstein and Gla Maxwell as this predatory Bonnie and
[24:53]Clyde. And the House Oversight Committee has subpoenenaed her to come in. And she said, "I'm going to plead my Fifth Amendment right according to her attorneys, unless there's some stipulations met." One of those
[25:04]stipulations included being granted immunity. The House Oversight Committee essentially said, "No way. They're going they haven't answered fully about the other conditions, but what do you think she could provide? And do you think she
[25:16]would be she would give an honest testimony? >> Well, I would hope that she would give an honest testimony. You know, she was also given immunity to sit down for a
[25:27]two-day interview that took place over nine hours with the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanch. That took place last week
[25:36]down in Florida near um the jail where she's being held in Tallahassee. Now, in terms of Guileain Maxwell,
[25:48]Gileain Maxwell is an evil predator. Four of her victims and Epstein's victims testified against her here in
[25:59]New York. And rightfully so, she was convicted and
[26:06]sentenced to 20 years behind bars. And you know, ma Miss Maxwell up to this up up to the point of sitting down with
[26:17]Todd Blanch has never fully accounted for anything related to her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. She's never
[26:26]expressed any guilt or remorse for the the victims that the Justice Department says now number more than 1,000 women.
[26:38]As I reported in my book, Elaine Maxwell once told a close friend, "These girls are nothing but trash."
[26:48]She had complete disdain for these young victims. Why she went along with this sex
[26:58]trafficking and why she went along with grooming these girls is certainly a question that I would have. This is a
[27:08]woman who was educated at Oxford University, grew up with a silver spoon in her
[27:15]mouth, grew up in a a 70 room mansion in England, had such a a you know top class
[27:25]education growing up as the daughter of the wealthy Fleet Street publisher Robert Maxwell. You have to ask yourself
[27:36]when she uh hooked up with Jeffrey Epstein, why she just didn't run away when Jeffrey
[27:45]Epstein began targeting young women and young girls. Why she didn't put her hands up and say, "I don't want to have anything to do
[27:57]with you. I'm going to get I'm going to get out of here." But instead of doing that, she helped him a great deal in terms of of
[28:07]as as I as you referenced, I called them the predatory Bonnie and Clyde. and they presented themselves as a couple to the
[28:18]young victims and in all in other cases to their uh parents or single mothers. Basically telling these girls, Jeffrey
[28:26]Epstein wants to help you or wants to help your daughter. He sees that she has a great interest in music. He wants to um get her private music lessons. Oh, he
[28:38]sees that she is interested in possibly attending medical school one day. He wants to help finance her college education.
[28:48]They presented themselves as a wealthy couple who could help these children receive an incredible education
[29:00]and additional help in whatever their their expertise was or what they wanted to do in life. And that was just a a ruse.
[29:10]That was just a cover. Instead, Gileain Maxwell would take these young girls under her wing. She would talk to them about their sexual
[29:21]histories. The majority of them didn't have a sexual history. They were children for God's sakes. And she would instruct them
[29:32]on sexual acts. And she would also buy them lingerie. She would buy them children's
[29:41]underwear. and she would oftentimes take them into the rooms with Jeffrey Epstein and not only watch the horrible sex
[29:53]abuse that took place, but she would often times participate uh in in this. And she would also, as some of the victim's lawyers have have
[30:05]said, she would also arrange for private parties or sessions involving some of Jeffrey Epstein's
[30:15]wealthy male friends with some of these young women and children. So, this is a woman that
[30:24]is one of America's worst predators. And I can only hope that if she is deciding now to speak
[30:36]that she will finally tell the truth, admit to guilt in terms of what she's done, but help us understand what went on
[30:48]and also tell us about the other men that took part in this who possibly could be
[30:57]prosecuted because that's really what the American public wants to know. They want to know, are there other men involved in this case who are
[31:08]responsible and should be brought to justice? And again, we don't know what Gileain Maxwell has said to Todd Blanch. We
[31:19]don't know at this point if she will speak with government officials and will she be truthful because the government has already said
[31:29]um that she's uh been responsible for perjury. Uh they dropped those charges against her as part of the larger case. But she has lied under oath. She has
[31:41]lied in uh court depositions and the government has found her to be an unreliable witness. So,
[31:51]I'm only hoping now that she will finally be forthcoming and that she'll tell the truth and also provide whatever evidence she may know
[32:03]of that could help in an investigation into third parties. But
[32:12]Elaine Maxwell's motive may may strictly be to play to President Trump and hope that
[32:22]she can get a pardon or some type of commutation on her sentence. So, at this point, we don't truly know her motives
[32:32]as to what's going on behind the scenes, but you know, I I I would say, please
[32:43]just tell us the truth once and for all. >> And she said, according to her attorneys, that she would welcome clemency from President Trump and then she would start talking there. And
[32:53]President Trump is someone who has been faced uh with scrutiny again over his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. They had nearly a 15-year relationship there, a friendship. And you write about that
[33:05]in your book. You say they were similar in the sense that they were both outer burrow kids. And at the end of your book, and you wrote this 5 years ago, that you say out of all of Epstein's past associates, Trump has the most to
[33:17]lose and perhaps the most to want to hide. Five years later, as we sit here right now in President Trump's second term, multiple outlets are reporting that back in May, the attorney general,
[33:28]Bondi, she was briefing President Trump on the DOJ's review of the Epstein files and she told him that he was named in those files. Do you still feel the same way that President Trump has the most to
[33:39]lose here? >> Oh, I do. And I also think that now that he is once again back in the White House
[33:48]for a second term that he has a responsibility to the American public and even before
[33:58]we see the or hopefully see what's in the FBI files that they're that they're hiding that they refuse to
[34:09]um give transparency to the American in public. I would like to see them release the ex the specific references
[34:20]to President Trump in the files because we know that there's multiple references him to him in those files. He's our sitting he's our sitting president in
[34:31]the White House. We should know how he plays into the FBI documents. They may be references
[34:43]to things that don't have anything to do with the criminality. They but they could be embarrassing things about him, things that he's he's
[34:53]said to some of these women, actions that he may have taken with Jeffrey Epstein. It's important for us to see
[35:03]what the president's involvement has been with Jeffrey Epstein. And I have to tell you, Britney, while he has never been accused of any
[35:15]wrongdoing by law enforcement related to Jeffrey Epstein and has denied knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes,
[35:26]it is disturbing that we are continuing to learn new details about the depth of their relationship.
[35:35]At the time of the 2024 campaign, a former Sports Illustrated model named Stacy Williams came forward to
[35:47]the New York Times and the Guardian newspaper in England and claimed in allegations that back in the
[35:59]90s she was a casual girlfriend of Jeffrey Epstein's and that one day Jeffrey Epstein took her to visit Donald
[36:07]Trump at his office at Trump Tower. She claims when she went up there that
[36:16]Donald Trump at the time groped her, groped her breast, groped other parts of her body, and that Jeffrey Epstein was
[36:26]watching this from a few feet away. And she said, as she termed it, this was a twisted game between these two men. This was a
[36:37]twisted game between these two best friends. Now, that's a disturbing allegation
[36:44]that Donald Trump roped a young woman in the presence of Jeffrey Epstein. His campaign at the time of course denied
[36:56]vehemently denied um this model's allegations and dismissed it as nothing more than a
[37:05]uh political hit job. But again, we don't know the uh we weren't there. We don't know exactly what happened, but
[37:16]we do know that Donald Trump has a very checkered history when it comes to young women. As I wrote in my previous book,
[37:27]All the President's Women: Donald Trump and the Making of a Predator, there was more than two dozen disturbing allegations of groping and sexual misconduct against
[37:38]him over the course of many decades dating back to the 1970s. And of course, Donald Trump was found
[37:49]liable of sexual abuse in a civil court in New York in the case of Eugene Carol, who won $80 million in damages from
[38:01]Donald Trump, money that she is still trying to collect from the president. So there's a
[38:11]wellocumented history of Donald Trump and allegations of sexual misconduct. And all you have to do is is listen once
[38:23]again to the infamous Access Hollywood tape uh that emerged before his first term in the White House
[38:34]that the Washington Post had uncovered which he said it was it he said it was okay to you know grope women if you were
[38:43]you know a celebrity. So, you know, I'm disturbed by these allegations and the fact that he is back in the
[38:53]White House again. It really is important to know and understand what the references are to him in the Epstein FBI files.
[39:02]>> And the president continues to deny any wrongdoing here. He's also continuing to distance himself from Jeffrey Epstein. He's questioning why people care about
[39:12]this story so much. But this the interest in this story really isn't going away until people get more developments and until more information becomes brought or is brought to the
[39:23]public. And Barry Lavine, as we see more developments, I hope you can come back on and join me and discuss them. Thank you so much for the conversation today. You're welcome back anytime.
[39:33]>> Thank you, Britney, for having me and uh I I really enjoyed your questions and our conversation.