[0:00]Earlier, I spoke with Annie Farmer. She survived sexual abuse at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein and has advocated for the full release of the Epstein files. Please take a listen. First question,
[0:10]Annie, you appeared on the steps of the capital not so long ago advocating for the discharge petition, a legislative vehicle to possibly win the release of all the Epstein files. How are you
[0:22]feeling at this moment when it appears that might actually happen in the House? It was incredible to see Grihalva um you know sworn in yesterday finally and know
[0:33]that her signature gets us you know one very big step closer to pursuing this transparency that we are all um we've all come together to support and really to demand. So it felt I think it felt
[0:44]surreal for many of us to know that we were we were closer to the truth than ever before. There are those who look at this, Annie,
[0:53]and wonder, is there a political agenda? Do you want to address that? I'd be happy to address that. Yeah. I mean, I think that one of the many
[1:04]frustrations that survivors in this case have felt and expressed is that we this this case has been politicized, but it is not political. This is not a partisan
[1:15]issue. the sexual abuse of children and young women is is in no way partisan. And in fact, you know, when my sister Maria Farmer first reported this, that
[1:25]was 1996. We've had five administrations, you know, come and go since then, right? Like many, many directors of the FBI. This is always something that survivors
[1:37]have wanted is more information about what went wrong here. Why was there why was just why didn't we see justice? So the fact that um you know there has been
[1:48]more call and interest at this time, I think that just means that you know Americans have are learning more and are more interested and wanting that information to be released. But um for
[1:58]us it is not political. >> And of course some now in positions of prominence within the Trump administration were vocally calling for
[2:07]that transparency not so long ago. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's, you know, one of the things that is confusing to us is that, you know, there
[2:19]have been people that have been that were part of that are part of the administration that campaigned on um making sure that these files would be released. And I think that really made a
[2:30]lot of Americans, you know, more curious and want to understand what had gone wrong. And now they're in positions of power and we're just saying, please follow through with your promises, right? Um and it hasn't happened. And in
[2:42]fact, you know, the way that things have um unfolded, there has been it felt like just one stall after another. And that's really hard on the individuals that you
[2:52]know, like myself, um my sister, so many of the survivors I know personally, this trickle of information is really difficult, right? Um, we're just asking
[3:02]for the the full files to be released so we don't have to continue to live, you know, in this roller coaster world where you never know what's coming one day to the next. >> When I talked to the speaker of the
[3:14]house, Mike Johnson, about this several weeks ago, he said, "Well, we need to be very careful about the victims, about the survivors, and that we don't release information that is harmful to them,
[3:24]either reputationally or otherwise." From your vantage point, Annie Farmer, is that a valid point of view? >> You know, of course, it is important that survivors who do not want to be
[3:36]revealed would not be revealed. But I think that the this transparency act has that built into it. And I feel that unfortunately that is being protecting
[3:46]the survivors is being used as an excuse to delay the release of this information. All of the survivors that I know and I'm in touch with are in support of this bill because it does
[3:56]have provisions built in for that. So saying no, we can't pass this legislation because we need to protect survivors. I don't I don't think I don't believe it. >> You have a unique perspective on all
[4:07]this, Annie. You are, I believe, the only person to identify yourself by name and testify against, and correct me if I'm wrong, both Epstein and Galain
[4:16]Maxwell. So you have been among the most brave, if not the most brave survivor, all of this cascading around you.
[4:27]>> Uh I just want to check how are you doing? How are you feeling? >> Um well I just you know I guess for me I want to say that I think you know my ability to come forward and speak out is
[4:38]really based on the the women that have inspired me. You know first of all my sister Maria Farmer who was the first to report Epstein in 1996. Um and and then
[4:48]also very much Virginia Grey, you know, I think right now the world is getting to know her better through her memoir and um you know, her powerful example of being so bold and clear about speaking
[5:00]out about these crimes was also, you know, very much an inspiration for me. Um but I think that luckily there are many of us and as we come together, I think we just feel stronger and
[5:11]stronger. The more voices we have, the louder we get. And I think that um we are nervous right now because it feels like there's a lot at stake. But I also think we feel we feel really emboldened.
[5:23]Um and I'm hopeful that we're at a place where we are really going to see um that all of our us coming together is going to make a difference. >> Before I let you go, Annie, two questions. President Trump again this
[5:34]week described this as the Jeffrey Epstein hoax and there have been lots of reporting about the way that Gileain Maxwell has been treated in this different federal prison she has been
[5:46]moved to. I'd like your thoughts on both. >> Sure. Um yeah, first in terms of the the you know comment about it being a hoax. I think it's um I feel confused about
[5:57]what that means. I've never know what he means when he says that. Obviously, there's so many of us. I don't think the American people think this is a hoax. But what I will say is there has been a lot of misinformation that has floated
[6:08]around this case for a long time. And actually, that misinformation is very damaging to those of us involved um and very confusing. And so to in my mind, the best way of making sure we have the
[6:19]facts about this straight and we can separate fact from fiction when it comes to the Epstein case is to release all of the DOJ's files. Right? They investigated. there's a ton of
[6:30]information. So I I think that that just speaks to the importance of transparency. Um and then on your second question in terms of Maxwell's treatment, you know, I think we've just
[6:41]seen more and more that um it feels like she is getting this yeah, this privilege treatment that is not typical for an inmate, especially someone who is a sex
[6:51]offender at her level. And it's extremely problematic. you know, it seems like further evidence that there's just these two different sort of um
[7:01]systems of justice at play and because of her connections and because of her privilege and perhaps because of what she knows, she is being given, you know, benefits that others are not and I think
[7:11]it sends a very dangerous message and I hope that that I hope that that ends. >> Annie Farmer, thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you so much, Major
[7:22]>> Jeffrey Epstein survival. Danny Benki joins me now. Danny, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for joining me. >> Thank you for having me. >> First, I know it's not diff I know it's difficult. It's not pleasant, but let my
[7:33]audience know in whatever terms you want to discuss it, your relationship with Epstein and the apartment complex in New York. >> Yeah. So, I was recruited in 2004. I was
[7:45]17 years old. Um, a woman approached me and said that I could make some money as a masseuse. Um, I was a dancer. I come from the dance world,
[7:56]>> aspir Yeah. aspiring ballerina. >> Um, and so this woman approached me and said, you know, it sounds like you know body work, right? You know, you're a dancer. Um,
[8:05]>> and you should come and meet this this gentleman um on the upper east side. Um and so I went and uh at first it started
[8:16]as just a job and then um my mother unfortunately had a brain tumor and um was very very ill and I found the scans.
[8:27]I had thought that Jeffrey's money had come from the medical profession. He had all of these um pictures around the house of naked women and there was one
[8:37]uh particular sculpture that was of a brain and we didn't really have the internet the same way that we do now, right? And so um I think the only thing the only piece that was out there on
[8:47]Jeffrey at that point was man mystery money man or mi >> money man of mystery. Um, so we just didn't have a ton of information on him, but so I had brought him my mother's
[8:59]scans and um, he the world shifted for me. He basically leveraged them um, and said that they would withhold he would withhold care for her um, if I didn't
[9:11]either recruit more girls to massage him or that I was going to have to do a lot more. Um, and I I did not recruit anybody. Um it I was so ashamed of what
[9:22]I was already doing there. Um and so basically >> the exploitation increased after that. >> Yeah. I mean the abuse increased. I mean
[9:33]it was it was full-blown sexual abuse. Um and for a year um and once I knew that my mother was going to rehabilitate and be okay, I was able to extricate
[9:44]myself from that position. But you know, you have to remember the incredible manipulation. It was a systematic manipulation that would occur. Um, even
[9:55]from the very beginning, he would talk about other ballet dancers that had been to the mansion and um, how like ABT was amazing and he had so many girls that were massage or massuses from ABT
[10:07]because they knew American ballet theater. Yeah. Um I don't know if any of this is true of course but um but you know he would talk about these big ballet companies and you know of course
[10:18]part of me was like well that's my world I understand that world >> he might be entry into this world might give you credibility or introduce me to people >> and he said that he would often use um that piece that was always oh do you
[10:30]want to meet a ballet master at New York City Ballet I know everybody and of course those were people that I admired quite a bit um and so he he was looking for the way in all the time, right? I
[10:41]never quite found it with me until he had the brain scans and then that piece um you know, you could feel the shift in the room where I knew >> changed the power dynamic. >> The power dynamic. That's exactly right.
[10:52]And the abuse of power was extreme. Um and yeah, so from that moment forward, >> for you and those in this very
[11:02]unfortunate community of survivors, what do the Epstein files represent to you? And what do you think they will teach the American public if they are ever fully released?
[11:12]>> I see my 16 my 17-year-old self in those files. I see for I think many of us survivors looking at who we were then
[11:23]with all of our hopes, all of our dreams, all the things that we were aspiring to, all the promises that he made. Um I think that it brings us right back to that place. Um, I want to be
[11:32]able to hug my 17-year-old self and say, "It's all going to be okay. Other women will not have to go through this and mean it." And right now, I don't I don't necessarily feel that. I think without
[11:43]the transparency, we don't even know what the process to accountability is, right? We need to have that clear path of looking through the emails and it's a lot, you know, I
[11:54]understand it's a lot. um but >> financial records and >> all of it >> who might have assisted in one way or another financially or some other means. >> Yeah. And I think you know a lot of the
[12:05]time survivors are getting just name names and then that'll be the the road there. But first of all it's very scary to come forward and name a ton of names of powerful people. Um but also survivors are doing it through
[12:16]litigation. And I know I have a piece of litigation out there for um the accountant um and the lawyer of the estate. Uh there have been many other pieces of litigation that have been
[12:27]brought forward that have named names and I even saw like somebody dressed up for Halloween with um the list the list you know so we there are there is a lot out there to that you can point to but
[12:39]we need the facts before we can move forward >> and as you watch Congress wrestle with this what are your thoughts what do you want them to do >> I well we want them to release everything as I me just mentioned the president
[12:50]could do this himself >> it would be great um I mean it's again for You've heard it so many times, right? We we talk about this on every like you've heard from a ton of survivors. There are thousand of us and
[13:00]we always say this is not political. It is a human issue. It is a moral issue. It is what I would ask my tiny 5-year-old son to do. Just do the right thing, right? Release everything so that
[13:11]we understand the full breadth of what we're even looking at. Um, so I just I just hope that everybody does the right thing so that anybody who has done any
[13:21]harm is just brought in for accountability and so that we can see some justice. >> I want to play for you sound yesterday from Meet the Press. Republican Senator
[13:29]John Baraso. Please listen. >> Technical problem with that, Danny.
[13:40]We're trying to fix that. If the control room can let me know if it has been fixed, >> we'll take a look at it. If it passes the House, we'll see what it says. And we all want accountability and and
[13:51]transparency. But to me, this is not about truth. It's not about uh justice. This is about an attempt by the Democrats to make President Trump a lame duck president.
[14:02]>> How do you evaluate that? >> Yeah. Um we have >> not about truth, not about justice. That's >> we have survivors on both sides. We have the aisle politically,
[14:14]>> Republican, we have Democratic, we have some that don't want to be political at all and are like, I don't follow politics. Like we we are so human. Um and so I think in looking at that and we
[14:25]even have had survivors step forward and say, I voted for Trump. I am a Republican. Right. So I think that um >> and even say it's not about him. >> Totally. And it's not. And I guess that's the whole point here, right? is
[14:35]that we keep coming into this political realm and this political arena, but actually it's it's it's just not at its core. It's just not because I think it's we are every woman. We are actually a
[14:46]cross-section of the American people and of it's a great representation of American women. Um when you look at our faces, we are all races, religions, creeds, political affiliations. Like it
[14:58]and our stories are pretty close, I would say, for a lot of us. and we didn't know each other going into this. When you have a thousand women, right, you think about that number, a thousand,
[15:10]and you have at least 24 who are very forward- facing right now. And we're all saying the same thing, regardless of our background, regardless of anything that came before, we're saying this is
[15:21]important. We need to stop this. We need to stop this from perpetuating. For those girls who I, you know, I'm a choreographer, I teach dance. And um I often, you know, I'm teaching the girls
[15:31]that were the age that I was. And so I'm watching them and I'm thinking to myself, we just have to make it safer for them. We have to make sure that, you know, I every once in a while I'll overhear something and I'm like, that
[15:43]feels really unsafe. That feels like a really hard position that you've been put in. And it t just takes me right back to my own trauma. And I think um we just have to make sure that they're
[15:54]growing up in a very, very safe world. Danny Bensky, I appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. >> The House has voted on the bill to force
[16:04]the Justice Department to release those files. The files involving the government's investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Now, there was one no vote. It still
[16:16]needs to go get through the Senate. Leader John Thun has been non-committal about bringing it up for a vote. The president says if it reaches his desk, he would sign it. A lot of critics say the president doesn't need congressional
[16:26]approval. You could just request the Justice Department to release the files right now. President Trump strongly opposed the plan for months until he reversed course Sunday. Last week, the president asked the Justice Department to investigate any ties between Epstein
[16:38]and powerful Democrats, including former President Bill Clinton, who has denied any wrongdoing. One of those Democrats is Harvard professor and former Treasury Secretary under Clinton, Larry Summers.
[16:48]He says he is stepping back from public life after messages between him and Epstein were released. He says he is deeply ashamed of his actions and recognizes the pain they have caused. CBS News congressional reporter Torian
[17:00]Small joins us from Capitol Hill. Torian, what happened with the vote? >> Yeah, Lindsay, we saw 427 to1. That is a pretty resounding vote in the affirmative for this bill. Near
[17:11]unanimous. The one lawmaker defector in this is Klay Higgins, a Republican from Louisiana who's also part of the Freedom Caucus. We're working to get his
[17:20]statement on why he voted against this. But ultimately though, this is exactly what many, including quite a few Republicans, expected to happen. Even House Speaker Mike Johnson suggested
[17:31]that this would be well on its way to the Senate, even though he had some uh reservations about the bill as it stands. One of which is privacy for some
[17:41]of the victims named in these files as they're set to be released in a very public manner in a searchable and down uh loadable format as per the rules of
[17:52]this law. It now heads over to the Senate where leader Thun is likely to consider amendments considering he had a conversation with Speaker Johnson about
[18:02]this before it heads to the floor. If that happens and it passes out of the Senate with those changes, it would have to come back to the House for a vote before it makes it to the president's desk. One other thing though, Lindsay, I
[18:14]want to bring up is what uh Representative Thomas Massie, the Republican who kind of led the charge on this, brought up. He took issue and had
[18:23]pause when President Trump made that very notable pivot. And President Trump said that he's also looking to investigate Democrats connected to Epstein. Massie thought that could be a
[18:34]ploy to potentially thwart the release the full release of these files, saying that a a provision in the law under an active investig investigation could
[18:44]prohibit the Department of Justice from releasing these files. We'll have to see what happens next, but that is what we're watching as this moves forward. And while we've been talking uh just a few minutes ago, Representative Klay
[18:56]Higgins did post on X, saying he has been a principled no on this bill from the beginning. He was saying what was wrong with the bill three months ago is still wrong today. He says if enacted in its current form, this type of broad
[19:06]reveal of criminal investigative files released to a rabid media will absolutely result in innocent people being hurt. Um so that aside, what does this passing mean for those survivors
[19:18]who spoke earlier on the steps on Capitol Hill? It's what they've been advocating for, Lindsay. They said, "Get the politics out of this. They just want to see justice in the form of transparency." That's also what Marjorie
[19:29]Taylor Green, another notable Republican who, because of this, essentially has caused a pretty public falling out with President Trump. She says she's been the target of death threats because she's
[19:41]been such a a vocal advocate for this bill when Donald Trump was not. So, uh, it's caused in her mind a massive rift to the party. Um, but ultimately though,
[19:52]she says this is for the benefit of, uh, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. She and other Republicans who have been pretty supportive has says this has nothing to do with Donald Trump. In their minds,
[20:03]this is just about seeking justice for the victims of the convicted sex offender. Lindsay, >> walk us through some of how we got here, specifically as it pertains to the rift
[20:14]that it has caused within the Republican party with some former staunch allies, fervent supporters of President Trump, breaking with him and now finding
[20:24]themselves on the other side of his eye. Yeah, President Trump has maintained that this is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats, which is why he uh had quite
[20:35]a bit of uh backlash against any Republican who essentially endorsed that discharge petition going forth. This was also uh comes that came as House Speaker
[20:46]Mike Johnson said that he didn't want to take up any legislation around this. He said that the House Oversight Committee was working its own investigation and actively releasing all documents that it
[20:58]received from the Epstein estate. However, that just didn't sit well with other Republicans like Thomas Massie, for example, who said that this isn't the transparency that not just the Trump administration, but the Republican
[21:10]leadership team promised, which is why they moved forward with this. Ultimately though, as it crosses the finish line, we have to question what's next when it comes to President Trump, if that
[21:21]investigation will impede the full release of this, as Thomas Massie has laid out, and then whether or not leader Thun will take it up and consider uh
[21:30]those changes that he talked about with uh Speaker Johnson, or if he'll heed the advice of other members of the Senate, particularly Democrats like Chuck
[21:40]Schumer, and just push this through immediately and say, this to the president's desk. >> So, uh, the vote passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act 427
[21:51]to1. We've been discussing how, uh, the representative from Louisiana, Klay Higgins, was the lone no vote. Um, are
[21:59]we expecting if these files do end up getting released that they will be heavily redacted >> potentially? I mean, that would be what the amendments are calling for if the
[22:10]Senate were to take it up and make those changes. Uh but we'll see what the DOJ says if there is uh litigation or anything within uh their legal means they could do to prevent this from
[22:21]moving forward. But also we have to look at the optics here. Democrats uh since Trump took office has framed this debate as the Trump administration as the
[22:31]Republican party looking to cover up or protect. Republicans, however, uh has the burden of running on this in 2024,
[22:40]saying that their uh rise to power, their majority, and winning the White House would give them the opportunity to release this. There was a very public display when Trump took office of uh
[22:52]conservative influencers being invited to the White House to receive what they called the Epstein files. It certainly wasn't this, but the Trump administration has made an effort in the
[23:03]past to at least show that they're willing to divulge information. It's curious as to why there was so much push back on this considering there isn't an active investigation or there wasn't up
[23:14]to this point uh why the president was so against this, but as we saw both sides ultimately deciding in this vote to send this across the aisle and to send this to the president's desk, at
[23:25]least the first step of that happening today. Lindsay >> Torian Small.