[0:00]Mr. Vice President, welcome to the conversation corner here at the takeout. Great to see you. Thanks for joining me. >> Good to see you, Major. Thanks for having me on. >> So, let's talk about today. President
[0:10]said he's not inclined to fire Jerome Powell, chairman of the Federal Reserve, but he's looking into it. Top administration officials keep saying the
[0:19]president might do this. Would that be a bad idea? Would that harm our understanding of the independence of the Federal Reserve? Well, I' I've been a critic of the Fed over the years, Major.
[0:31]I have I have real concerns about what's called the dual mandate, right, >> that we have where the Federal Reserve is supposed to worry about the protecting the dollar as well as full
[0:41]employment. Um, and u I was very enamor It really is, but I think it contributes to some of the confusion
[0:51]uh at the Fed. Um but look, I I think the president uh you know came into office in part because we saw the worst
[0:59]inflation in 40 years. Um and u J Pal has been cautious about ensuring that inflation doesn't start again, which we
[1:09]just got word that it has. Inflation kicked back up. Uh but you know at at the end of the day I think that that the challenges in the economy don't flow as
[1:18]much to the Fed as they do to uh policies of the administration to the stopping and starting again on tariffs and imposing tariffs on friend and foe
[1:28]alike. We've been I've tried to I tried to delineate the difference when when we were in office together. Mhm. >> Uh we use tariff we use tariffs and the threat of tariffs
[1:40]>> to bring down uh trade barriers and to open up uh markets. The exception was China. Look, I I think you you >> and we're going to get to China in a second. >> Well, you can't you can't be too tough
[1:51]on China uh after decades of trade abuses. But I think what's different during this administration, and I think we're starting to feel it in the economy
[2:01]already, is that I I think you have people around the president that really have brought a uh uh a protectionist policy that says we're we're going to have broad-based tariffs.
[2:12]>> Yep. >> Uh across the board um with u with free nations as well as authoritarian regimes. And uh at the end of the day, I
[2:22]think that's a greater issue facing the economy than >> and policies at the Fed. >> Net a bad idea, one that's inconsistent with the Reagan orientation to global
[2:33]economics that you've always embraced. >> Well, well, tariffs are taxes. They're border taxes. Um and while >> and they're paid either in profits or
[2:44]stock indices or by consumers, >> well, they >> somebody pays. Well, the one thing I know for sure is that people outside the country don't pay tariffs, >> right? >> Somebody here is going to pay them.
[2:55]>> Yeah. Uh and I, you know, I come from a major trading state. I was governor of Indiana. We're the I think last time I checked, we're the second leading exporting state in the country. What we
[3:04]grow, what we make, we settle the world. Um and so during our four years, President Trump and I had more than a few conversations about trade. Um and he
[3:15]they would always go about the same way. He would essentially say, um, >> these countries that we buy from, they got to pay. >> Right. >> Right. And you would say,
[3:25]>> I would say, well, of course, Mr. President, uh, you know, the tariffs are a border tax. They're they're paid by American businesses ultimately by American consumers. And he would look at
[3:36]me and say, "Well, I know how it works." Then he'd say, "But they got to pay." He he he I I honestly and and look, this is not a different thought uh for President
[3:47]Trump. You can go back 40 years online and find him saying the same thing. I I said recently the the president I served with is not an isolationist.
[3:58]>> But at his heart, he is a protectionist. I I think he feels very drawn uh to that 19th century policy of uh of of tariffs across the board as a way of protecting
[4:08]the American economy. Uh the reality is there's just real cost to that and and I really believe the last 75 years have shown uh that uh that free trade with
[4:20]free nations uh creates jobs and prosperity and unprecedented quality of life in America and we're going to continue to advocate for that. >> Simple question. Does the president
[4:29]unilaterally have the legal authority to impose tariffs to every trading partner of this country? >> I think that's a question now that's going to go before the Supreme Court.
[4:38]What do you think? You filed a your your organization you lead has filed a legal brief saying he doesn't got to go to Congress. >> That's right. Well, I >> Constation is pretty clear on that. I >> I will say to you, I don't think it was
[4:50]the founders's intention. >> You might remember that it was tariffs. >> Yeah. >> On tea >> that went into the Boston Harbor. >> Yeah. >> That helped initiate the American Revolution.
[5:00]>> And the founders wrote very specifically that if this to be initiated, it had to start in Congress. >> Had to. Article 1 section 8 says that taxes and excises or tariffs are to be initiated in the Congress in the United
[5:12]States. Now in fairness to the president in the last hundred years major Congress has turned over that authority in in beginning in the depression era and
[5:23]beyond essentially shuffling off to the president the authority uh over tariffs to one degree or another. Now, I will say again, what's different today than in our administration, we use what's
[5:34]called section 232. >> Yep. >> Where you identify and have to and really have to prove trade go through an investigatory process, be reviewed and
[5:44]and and you use that to then the >> make a case >> make a case for imposing tariffs unilaterally from the executive branch. >> But the essence of it is it's case by
[5:56]case and you have to prove it, >> right? What this administration has done is use uh emergency authority, the acronym for which is AIPA. Uh >> yeah, >> in a way that's never been used before
[6:07]to to impose broad-based tariffs, as I said, on on friend and foe alike. And I I think uh as we saw the the uh the the
[6:17]trade court uh unanimously ruled that that was not constitutional. It's going to go to the Supreme Court. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if uh if they didn't agree with the lower court and
[6:27]essentially say that the power to tax, including to impose tariffs and border taxes, has to begin in the Congress. >> I said we'd get to China. I want to jump to that straight away. China has said,
[6:38]as you well know, Mr. Vice President, that it needs to be prepared. Prepared is the key word, to invade Taiwan by 2027. Senior Navy leaders in the Pacific have publicly said they take China at
[6:49]its word and see evidence of intense training to make those preparations. What is the risk that we will be at war with China by the end of this second
[6:59]Trump term? >> China is the greatest strategic and economic threat facing the United States of America. It's one of the reasons why
[7:08]I, as I said, um, as as strongly as we've pushed back on unilateral tariffs, I helped lead the charge in our administration uh, to help change the
[7:20]national consensus and US policy on China. We imposed $250 billion in tariffs on China. We we actually brought them to the table uh, for what came to
[7:30]be known as the phase one trade deal. Uh, but I think China only understands strength. And I think that the answer to your question is um is the United States
[7:40]going to make the kind of investments uh particularly in the Asia-Pacific in our military that will deter military action by China.
[7:51]>> The recent Wall Street Journal editorial says this administration is not making those investments. Well, uh, Senator Roger Wicker, who I served with many years in the Congress, uh, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, unveiled a
[8:03]proposal a year ago to take defense spending in this country to 5%. We're below 3% now. >> Right. >> I'm I'm very I'm very proud of President Trump and the administration for getting
[8:14]our NATO allies to agree to go for 5%. Uh, I think I think the time has come for us to drive toward 5%. What I learned as vice president, and
[8:25]you and I have known each other a long time. >> We have. >> And I these are things I didn't know when I was a congressman or even a governor. But what I learned is as I traveled around the world meeting with heads of state,
[8:36]leaders around the world don't care what you say. They don't care what you tweet. Uh they pay very careful attention to
[8:47]what you're spending money on. And I I honestly think that our military buildup uh during the Trump Pence years in in a
[8:56]very real sense served as a deterrent to Russia uh from invading Ukraine. I think it served as a deterrent uh of Iran in the Middle East. I think it served as
[9:07]deterrent China. and and only by stepping forward and making the kind of historic commitment that we need to make to build up a 21st century military will
[9:18]we ensure a >> peaceful future in the Asia Pacific. >> It's not there yet. >> Uh we're we're not there yet. In fact, I would say in the last week you saw uh China with a major operation
[9:29]>> in the Taiwan Straits testing amphibious vehicles. Uh but look, chi China's made
[9:36]no uh uh illusions about their ambitions about Taiwan. >> Uh I traveled to Taiwan in January, my first trip. I met with the president of
[9:47]Taiwan, u gave a speech in Taipei uh about the extraordinary success of democracy and freedom uh in Taiwan. But I think the an
[9:57]answer here is American strength because we stay strong. we stay committed to our allies in the Asia-Pacific. Um that we
[10:06]we will I believe we will uh deter and discourage China from uh from using military force to uh regain Taiwan. >> How does that demonstration of strength
[10:18]manifest itself or fail to manifest itself with the ban on Tik Tok, which is law that hasn't taken effect and the president continues to say he doesn't have to live by it because he's looking
[10:29]for a deal? Yeah, I'm I'm very concerned uh that uh that we're sending the wrong signals to China. I mean, look, Tik Tok is a national security
[10:40]threat to the United States. >> They don't want to give up the algorithm, which is why they can't find a deal. >> Well, and and it's important for your viewers to understand the algorithm that is used by Tik Tok in the United States
[10:50]is banned in China. >> Ought to be a clue. ought to be a clue that it's highly addictive, invasive, and a data scraper. >> Tik Tok today
[11:01]uh represents a fundamental compromise of the security and uh and privacy of the American people. Um and the time has come for the administration to draw the
[11:13]line, insist that China agree to a sale or shut it down. uh that's that's in the interest of the United States and more importantly it's what the law requires major
[11:24]>> and by not doing it we look weak >> well that and I would also say I think 25% tariffs on Korea and Japan
[11:35]also send a very harmful message >> in the region >> in the region because what it what it essentially does is it it tempts our allies in the region uh to stop looking east and start
[11:47]looking west to China that uh look we we we have strong economic relationships. Doesn't mean they can't be improved. I was put in charge of a of a working group to negotiate a free trade
[11:58]agreement with Japan. We were well down the road on that during our administration. Uh but imposing a 25%
[12:05]tariff on Japan uh on Korea and at the same time continuing to kick the can down the road on Tik Tok. I I think
[12:16]sends the wrong message to China. We ought to be strong. Uh we ought to be strong protecting the security and privacy of the American people and we ought to be strong and building ties and
[12:27]free trade with our allies in the region. >> Talk to you about something else that happened today. President Trump said that Jeffrey Epstein matter is a hoax. Last week, his justice department said
[12:37]there were more than 1,000 victims of Jeffrey Epstein. Last summer, Trump said he was open to declassifying all the relevant files and the Epstein client
[12:47]list and that his suspicide looked suspicious. How can all those things be true and it be a hoax? I don't understand where things stand with all this.
[12:58]>> I think the time has come for the administration to release all of the files regarding Jeffrey Epstein's investigation and prosecution. It's important that we protect the names of
[13:09]the victims. they should be excluded from any disclosure. But >> um but but whether or not uh the facts
[13:17]justify charges, I think that u that uh anyone who participated or was associated with this despicable man ought to be held up to public scrutiny.
[13:28]>> One of the most aggressive investigative reporters in our country, Julie K. Brown was on my show last night and she said when the Justice Department last week said a thousand victims, she said that was a higher number than she was
[13:39]familiar with and indicated to her that there have to be accompllices accompllices that some of the victims have named that worked with Epstein and Galileain Maxwell and she said, "Shouldn't there be some inquiry into
[13:51]whether or not those people should be exposed to criminal prosecution?" Do you agree with that? >> I I I I just think we ought to get the facts to the American people. I mean, I'
[14:00]I've always believed in transparency. Um, >> and when the president says it's all a hoax, what is he talking about? >> Well, the Jeffrey Epstein's prosecution began during the Bush administration continued.
[14:12]>> He's blaming it on Democrats >> the Obama years. I u >> It's not a hoax. >> I I know of no reason why this administration once the
[14:22]victim's names are protected should not release all the all the files on Jeffrey Epstein. >> Understood. It appears the president has done a U-turn on Ukraine. Why do you
[14:32]think that happened? >> Well, I first off, I I'm I want to commend the president uh for releasing additional military resources and at
[14:43]least setting a deadline uh for strong, including secondary sanctions against Russia. >> That's not where he was when he came in. >> I mean, in January, >> I think President Trump is starting to realize that Vladimir Putin does not
[14:55]want peace. He wants Ukraine. And three years ago, Putin launched an a brutal and and unprovoked invasion uh
[15:06]into Ukraine that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. Uh and he needs to be held to account. Now, I I want to stipulate that I I think President Biden
[15:16]did a terrible job explaining our interest to the American people. I mean, Major, I I watched those speeches from my home in Indiana. He would he would talk
[15:26]in gauzy terms about democracy and and freedom and look I I don't know that Ukraine is any paragon of of democracy. >> It has its issues >> but they've have their issues and I confront
[15:38]>> corruption and otherwise. >> Well, I confronted uh President Sinsky on those very issues in one-on-one meetings with him during >> it's something about bigger it's something bigger than that is what you're saying. What what I think the
[15:49]reason why the United States is right to give Ukraine the resources they need uh to repel and defeat the Russian invasion is because I have no
[16:00]doubt that if Vladimir Putin overruns Ukraine, it's only a matter of time before he crosses a border where our men and women in uniform are going to have to fight him.
[16:10]>> No choice. We'll have no choice. >> You look I' I've met Vladimir Putin. Uh, I've talked to him closer than I'm talking to you. I've told him things he didn't want to hear.
[16:20]>> Um, I I think this is a man who's made his ambitions about reclaiming the old Soviet sphere of influence in Eastern Europe no secret. >> But to that point, Mr. Vice President,
[16:31]you've been cleareyed about Vladimir Putin. Lots of people, not named Donald Trump, have been cleareyed about Vladimir Putin. He's only coming to this realization now. What took so long?
[16:41]Well, I think some of the isolationist voices around the president um lost their footing when they opposed
[16:52]a US military strike against Iran's nuclear. >> Tie those two things together for me. >> Well, I mean, when it's one thing to have uh voices like uh Tucker Carlson
[17:03]and Steve Bannon saying that we should cut off all US military support in Ukraine. Um uh it was another thing to hear those same voices saying that we shouldn't
[17:13]stand with Israel uh that we shouldn't be prepared to use military force to prevent Iran from obtaining a usable nuclear weapon. I I saw the president
[17:22]actually came out the other is what you're saying. >> I look I I said before President Donald Trump is not an isolationist. I think it
[17:32]violates a bit of his nature. He's by definition he has a bias for leadership. He's not an interventionist though and he's not a traditional Reagan type
[17:41]Republican when it comes to the idea of >> multilateralism and free trade and open immigration. So, he's something else. >> Well, he's he he's not an
[17:51]interventionist. I think we demonstrated in our years together that we we didn't hesitate to use military force, but always as a last resort.
[18:01]>> Yeah. Uh, and that's why I I I never doubted, but I was still very proud that the president uh would dispatch those
[18:11]B2s over Iran to take out those nuclear facilities. Um, because at at the end of the day, he's he knows how to make a decision. He knows how to lead. But I I
[18:23]have I have a sense that having heard the voices of those isolationists in and outside the administration, >> even speaking against standing with Israel and their fight, that that
[18:35]>> may have caused him to think again uh about about Putin's uh ambitions and brutality >> and the need for us to to marshall the free world to stand with you. And then
[18:47]clearly hearing from Putin over and over in telephone calls and then seeing what would happen after the phone calls would end and the gap between them. >> Yeah. >> Trump finally got it. Said he is jerking
[18:57]me around. >> Yeah. I >> President said much worse than that. Mr. Vice President, I'm cleaning it up for you. >> Yeah. No, he has. Uh and I I just um I'm
[19:09]encouraged by it. I'm encouraged uh uh by the president's um willingness to stand so firmly with Israel >> because the necessary the Senate is
[19:18]prepared to do a sanctions bill. All the president has to do is give him a green light. >> Um they are and I think it's about 85 co-sponsors,
[19:26]>> right? Um, and I look, I I want to I I want to be grateful for the president's move toward demonstrating that he knows America is
[19:38]the leader of the free world. And again, I >> I I will tell you that, you know, I had my critics. I had that I I had that uh presidential campaign I ran in the
[19:48]primary 2023 might be the last time we saw each other. And uh I had my critics because I actually went and visited Ukraine during my presidential campaign.
[19:58]>> Um and I I understood the concern people had. I mean, we had a we had the worst crisis at our southern border in history, the worst inflation in 40 years
[20:07]or I mean the the argument that we couldn't worry about Ukraine anymore or or worry about free nations because uh
[20:17]we have issues here at home. Compelling argument. >> Yeah, it was. But I I always held the view that anyone who thinks that we can't solve our problems at home address >> and be the leader of the free world's
[20:28]got a pretty small view of the greatest nation on earth. I always believe we can do both. >> We're doing both uh right now. And uh um and I'm I'm encouraged by it. But uh but
[20:39]I also want to say to you, you know, remember I've >> uh we were talking about our kids before the cameras started rolling. Yeah. My son's a major in the Marine Corps. Yeah. >> Uh my son-in-law is a lieutenant in the Navy. Mhm.
[20:50]>> Um um people accused me of support for Ukraine will lead us to World War II. I My response to them always was, "Well, you ought to study World War II a little bit more."
[21:01]>> Yeah. >> I mean, when if you allow dictators to have their way to run rough shot over lesser countries, um that's what leads you to global
[21:12]conflict. standing firm early on and setting parameters and saying to the likes of Putin uh and any other authoritarian leader in the world, we're not going to let you
[21:22]redraw international lines by force. Uh that's how we secure a peaceful and prosperous future. >> You spoke favorably of the military mission against Iran. John Bolton, who I
[21:33]know you served with in the first administration, was on this program recently, and he said, and he's long advocated for this, so I put that on the table. But he said, "Now particularly is
[21:44]the best time for this administration to push for regime change in Iran because the theocracy leading Iran has never been weaker and its regional influence has never been less, at least
[21:56]in the last 20 years." Agree or disagree? I think the most important thing is that we stand with Israel unambiguously
[22:06]and that uh we recognize uh that what the Mull has demonstrated all the way up to their recalcitrance to cooperate in that 60 days President
[22:18]Trump gave them is that uh it's it's almost inconceivable that we're going to achieve a lasting and peaceful future in
[22:26]the region um with the Ayatollah uh and the current leadership in Thrron and I think we need to be prepared
[22:36]uh to rally behind the people of Iran if they begin to raise up and reclaim. >> What does that mean behind? >> Well, it means something different than it did in the early days of the Obama
[22:46]administration. Um you were you were in covering Washington at the time. You remember the green revolution? >> I do. people took to the streets after uh what
[22:57]was clearly a fraudulent election. >> Um and the Obama administration remained silent. And so I there I was a member of
[23:09]Congress and I couldn't abide it that the greatest nation on earth was not at least expressing support for people that were trying to reclaim their democracy
[23:19]in Iran against the dictatorship. And so I authored a resolution with Democrat named Howard Burman. >> Um it passed the House almost unanimously. John McCain and Joe
[23:31]Lieberman both now passed uh u submitted the bill in the Senate. It passed by a voice vote. And two days later, President Obama finally spoke out in
[23:41]support of the Green Revolution. But by that time, the Mullers in Thrron had crushed the revolution under their tank treads and gunfire. I think we need to be prepared in in
[23:53]real and immaterial ways to support the people of Iran. >> Does real and material mean military? >> I I I don't think military, but I I >> assets, intelligence, and otherwise money.
[24:03]>> I think making sure that >> people that are reclaiming freedom on the ground, solace, and encouragement and know that uh uh if there is a new
[24:13]government that takes hold in Thrron, they will have they will have friends and friends soon. Recently on this program, we had Pam Hempil and she
[24:22]almost wept as she held up on the Zoom with us the letter that you sent her for refusing her pardon for her activities on January 6th.
[24:33]I like your assessment of that, why you sent the letter, but also this president, President Trump, pardoned everyone, even those who committed acts of violence against law enforcement that
[24:43]day and has since fired anyone who was in the Justice Department who was associated, even line prosecutors who didn't have discretion over whether they were involved in the prosecution of
[24:53]those January 6 case and even people in the press shop who just wrote press releases about what the Justice Department was doing. Does that strike you as straight up retaliation over
[25:04]that? >> January 6 was a tragic day. >> I know you believe that. >> And um I'll always believe I did my duty
[25:14]under the Constitution that day. And I'll believe that the law enforcement officers at the capital who secured the capital >> did their duty >> after hours of rioting did their duty
[25:25]and members of the justice department who prosecuted people that engage in criminal behavior at the capital also did their duty. And I I I
[25:36]have been disappointed uh to see reports that u uh that there's um been retribution and firings of of
[25:48]people that were simply doing their job enforcing the law and holding people to account. And and as I've said, u look, I I know there were lots of people, Pam
[25:58]may have been one of them, >> that was caught up in that riot, >> the fervor of it at all, >> swept into the building, um, but did not engage in violence against law
[26:09]enforcement officers or engage in vandalism. And I had no problem with the president pardoning those Americans. But people that assaulted police officers, that
[26:19]vandalized the United States capital to a lesser extent, uh I think needed to be held to the strictest account of the law. And I think the president was wrong
[26:29]to pardon those individuals. I think look, there can be no tolerance for political violence inspired by any
[26:41]viewpoint, left, right, or center in this country. And I and I thought what uh the president's decision really undermined that principle. >> Last week on this program, former deputy
[26:51]director of the Secret Service at Smith said the environment around political violence in this country has never been worse based on his experience. >> Well, I I mean I was troubled by what we
[27:02]saw in Los Angeles. Police officers being attacked in the streets, being fired, >> Minnesota the same. I just u look the
[27:13]the commitment to the rule of law is a bull work of our society. It's one of the reasons why I penned that letter to to Pam and I I saw her interview on this
[27:24]program and um uh it it touched my heart. I I didn't I didn't write to her to put it in the newspapers. I I wrote to her because I wanted to encourage her
[27:35]um in her faith and in her integrity because it seemed to me that she was that she was that one person who had gained some notoriety. I I remember the
[27:44]press right after January 6 and prosecution of the so-called MAGA granny uh was very sympathetic and um for her
[27:54]simply to accept responsibility for what she did uh and and refuse that pardon I thought uh didn't just inspire me I I expect it inspired people all over the
[28:04]country and um uh I really do believe that in time we will get back to that kind of integrity uh and faith in
[28:15]America and uh and she'll be remembered as having helped inspire it. >> In the last couple three minutes we have Mr. Vice President I want to engage you on immigration. Has there been anything
[28:24]this administration has done ICE agents in some instances wearing masks going to courous going to places where people are trying to show up for
[28:34]their scheduled legal hearings. the federalization of National Guard in California, sending Marines to Los Angeles, US citizens, green card holders
[28:45]in some rare instances being swept up in these drag. Anything in that space at all that strikes you as going too far or in conflict with the rule of law? Well, first you have to understand that from
[28:57]almost from the day he was elected, um, President Biden and his team sent a message of open borders uh to Central America and South America that created
[29:08]the worst border crisis in history by by the most conservative estimates, some 10 million people surged into the country. And uh, we've seen tragic consequences,
[29:18]illegal immigrants engaging in criminal behavior. So, I I think the American people and I personally broadly support uh border security, broadly support
[29:28]vigorous internal enforcement. Um and um but as you may remember from my years in Congress, >> that's why I brought it up. >> I I authored legislation to fix a broken
[29:38]immigration system. And my hope is as as we hear President Trump talk about uh maybe creating some room for people that work on farms have no criminal record.
[29:50]People that work in hotels have no criminal record. >> Construction other places >> that that will inspire the Congress to roll their sleeves up. >> But you know, Mr. As well as anyone as
[30:00]sure as you and I are sitting here, as soon as you say those words, the word amnesty will be stapled to your forehead. Right? And everyone runs from that word amnesty because they can't
[30:11]figure out a way to define grace or a second chance in America without being lashed with that word amnesty. The president's hung up on it. Tom Holman is borders was on my program last week.
[30:22]He's hung up on it. Everyone in Congress is hung up on it. So I know I've been around a long time. This conversation goes in a circle. People say common sense and fix the problem and then
[30:34]amnesty gets into it and it all falls apart. >> Right. You know what I'm saying? >> Oh, I I do. As the Apostle Paul said, I bear the brand marks in my body to prove
[30:44]it. I've been to those battles. But look, I think there's a way to fix this without amnesty. >> Okay, what is it? >> Well, you start with border security, which this administration has done with
[30:54]with great elacrity. And the recent budget bill gives them even more resources, even though illegal immigration at the southern border is essentially diminished to nothing. Then
[31:04]you go on with internal enforcement. We ought to be finding anyone in this country illegally uh who has so much as a parking ticket. If you came into this country in violation of the law and you have
[31:15]engaged in criminal behavior in this country, uh you need to be either incarcerated or deported. I think the American people fully support that. But
[31:25]then we start to get into other areas. And I I actually think the first one that is easy is the dreamers. I think children that were brought into this
[31:36]country um through no fault of their own um ought to ought to be given a special consideration and an opportunity to
[31:45]participate fully in the American dream. We we uh we offered a deal during our administration uh to make make right the
[31:55]dreamers and I still think it's an idea whose time has come. Look, I think most Americans are offended by the idea of you coming into our country illegally as an adult, but if you were >> What about adults who've been here for
[32:06]many, many years, no criminal records, all they do is work. >> I was about to get to that. And that was my proposal with uh former Senator K. Bailey Hutcherson. >> Your viewers can look it up. The Pence
[32:17]Hutcherson proposal. It was a uh it was a 21st century. >> Do you think this administration would go in >> guest worker program that would use
[32:26]private placement firms and allow people wherever they're currently working to apply outside the country
[32:35]for a legal permit to work here as long as they had a sponsor and they had a job and they had no criminal record and they passed back, you know, passed a health screening and all the rest. We actually
[32:46]had a proposal uh that came close to being considered before the Congress. I remember President Bush said u he supported it. I remember Speaker Hastard
[32:56]said that it was within the range of what he would do. But the key is is if >> those are threadbearing from American political past, Mr. President, what about now? Will Trump embrace any of
[33:07]these ideas? Well, I I think I I would hope that he and his team would be open to giving otherwise law-abiding people
[33:16]the ability to apply outside the country for the legal right to live and work here. If you do that, >> they got to self-report. >> If you do, if you do that, >> then come back.
[33:26]>> There's no amnesty. And I and using private sector employment placement firms like Monster.com, Kelly Services. Um, I remember uh Phil
[33:36]Graham, a great senator, said years ago, he said, "There's no problem in America too big or too complex. It can't be solved if somebody can make a buck solving it." Look, let's go to these
[33:46]employment placement firms. Let's work very closely with Homeland Security. Let's create a system outside the country and let the economy breathe. And if people who wherever they're living
[33:56]right now uh are otherwise law-abiding citizens would like to step outside the country and apply for the legal right to live and work here. We could create an apparatus for that that actually would
[34:08]not only not cost taxpayers money, it would actually generate revenues to the federal treasury. And uh and as the grandson of an Irish immigrant >> major, I'm never going to stop talking
[34:19]about this because my grandfather stepped off a boat onto Ellis Island. He drove a bus in Chicago, Illinois for 40 years. Richard Michael Collie and his
[34:30]courage crossing the Atlantic is how Michael Richard Pence got to be vice president of the United States. That's the American dream. Uh that's a dream my
[34:40]family got to live. It's broken right now in many respects, but we can fix it. And I really do believe that huing toward border security, the rule of law,
[34:51]rejecting amnesty, but grabbing the power of the private sector as a pathway toward u renewing the American dream for the 21st century. >> Mr. Vice President, it's always a
[35:02]pleasure. You're welcome here anytime. >> Thanks, Major. Good to see you. >> Good to see you.