[0:00]A court has just ordered the release of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged suicide note.
[0:06]This is an alleged suicide note, not from his actual, quote unquote, suicide, but from
[0:12]an attempted suicide from before the one where he died.
[0:16]CNN's Caitlin Pollance is in the newsroom with details.
[0:18]Caitlin Tossmore.
[0:19]Jake, one of the most sought after documents that you could imagine in the situation
[0:24]around Jeffrey Epstein and a moment of transparency.
[0:27]This is an apparent reported suicide note.
[0:31]Now there isn't a full authentication of this and just this document has been unsealed by
[0:36]a judge in the case of the man who was in a cell with him in July of 2029.
[0:43]This note, it apparently says, and I'll read it because it is very hard to read the handwriting
[0:49]there and some of these translations that we're making from the words may not be
[0:55]given how difficult it is to read his handwriting.
[0:58]But Jake, it says they investigated me for a month, found nothing.
[1:04]So 15 or 16 year old charges resurrected.
[1:07]It is a treat to be able to choose one's time to say goodbye.
[1:14]What you want me to do, burst out crying, no fun, not worth it.
[1:20]So this is a note that reportedly was discovered by the cellmate of Jeffrey Epstein after his
[1:25]arrest in 2019.
[1:27]And it was discovered in July of 2019, a time when he had apparently made a suicide
[1:34]attempt in jail and survived it.
[1:37]But then several weeks later killed himself.
[1:40]There have been so many investigations around Epstein and the Justice Department
[1:44]has been looking to release so many documents.
[1:48]This one, though, was tied up in the case of his cellmate and it now has been released
[1:54]at the petitioning of the New York Times.
[1:55]All right, Caitlin Pollins, thank you so much.
[1:57]With us now to discuss one of the Democratic members of the House Oversight Committee,
[2:00]which is investigating Epstein, Virginia Representative Congressman James Walkinshaw.
[2:05]Congressman, your reaction to the breaking news?
[2:07]Well, look, I think it's going to raise new questions of the circumstances around
[2:11]Epstein's suicide.
[2:13]One of the frustrating things is that in 2023, the IG did a report investigating those
[2:19]circumstances, determined they felt it was a suicide.
[2:24]This note wasn't even part of that investigation.
[2:26]So I think it's going to add to some of the theories that are out there that
[2:29]it wasn't really fully investigated.
[2:31]How confident are you that Epstein committed suicide?
[2:34]That his death was by suicide?
[2:35]I think that is the most logical outcome, but I'm not 100 percent confident.
[2:42]I mean, I think we have real questions that still need to be answered.
[2:45]We're going to have Tova Noel, one of the prison guards, before our committee next week.
[2:49]And we're going to have some tough questions about large cash deposits that she made
[2:54]in the weeks before his death.
[2:55]And there's been reporting that Epstein was paying protection payments to folks in
[3:00]the prison. I think there's still a lot of questions that need to be answered.
[3:03]So speaking of tough questions, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was on Capitol Hill
[3:07]today to talk to the House Oversight Committee about his relationship with Epstein.
[3:11]Your fellow Democrat, Congressman Ro Khanna, called Lutnick's testimony
[3:15]contortions and lies.
[3:17]What do you think?
[3:18]Well, look, here's what we know.
[3:20]Secretary Lutnick went on a podcast and said that he visited Epstein's townhouse
[3:25]once with his wife and he was so disgusted by Epstein.
[3:28]This is like he said in 2005, 2006.
[3:30]That's right. He pledged I'm never going to be in a room with that guy again.
[3:34]When the files were released, we learned he was in a room with that guy with Epstein
[3:37]multiple times.
[3:39]And when he was asked about that today, rather than fessing up to it and saying
[3:42]that he misspoke or, in my view, lied, he dissembled.
[3:46]He tried to argue about the definition of the word I.
[3:49]He said he meant that he wouldn't be in a room himself one on one with Epstein
[3:53]again. Apparently, he was OK being in a room with Epstein and Lutnick's
[3:59]wife and family.
[4:01]His wife and family.
[4:02]That's right. Yeah, that's right.
[4:04]Strange thing. He was so grossed out he didn't want to be in a room one on
[4:07]one with his kids or he would bring his kids.
[4:09]That's where it doesn't make any sense to me.
[4:10]Yeah. Unlike other witnesses before the committee, Lutnick's testimony was
[4:14]not videotaped.
[4:15]Why not? I think it's part of the ongoing cover up, right?
[4:18]And I'll never say the cover up is worse than the crime here because
[4:21]these Epstein crimes are horrific.
[4:23]But there's been a concerted effort by the administration and the
[4:26]Republican allies in Congress to keep the American people from seeing
[4:29]this. American people deserve to see Secretary Lutnick struggle to answer
[4:34]these basic questions.
[4:36]They deserve to see the painfully odd, awkward and weird responses he gave.
[4:41]And you guys asked him about his previous comments that Epstein had
[4:44]engaged in blackmailing and videotapes.
[4:47]That's right. We asked him what evidence he had for that.
[4:50]He said it was his just his speculation at the time.
[4:55]He's since changed his mind about that, having heard from officials in
[4:59]the Trump administration who don't believe Epstein blackmailed anyone.
[5:02]Your Democratic Virginia colleague, Congressman Suha Subramaniam, called
[5:06]for Lutnick to resign. Do you agree?
[5:08]I do. Look, I think it's a breach of trust.
[5:10]And I know this is an old fashioned view.
[5:12]I don't think a cabinet secretary should just flat out lie to the
[5:15]American people in the way that he did.
[5:18]If he had come in today and shown some remorse for that, some
[5:21]contrition for it, I might feel differently.
[5:24]But that's kind of the way of this administration.
[5:26]You know, lies are a currency in the Trump administration.
[5:29]And I don't think they should continue to get away with it.
[5:32]For nearly five hours today, the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick
[5:35]was grilled by the House Oversight Committee on his relationship with
[5:38]Jeffrey Epstein. His voluntary sit down happened after months of
[5:42]questions from both parties following the release of the Epstein files
[5:46]that directly contradicted what he had claimed last October about
[5:50]severing ties with Epstein in 2005.
[5:54]We and in the six or eight steps it takes to get from his house to
[6:01]my house, my wife and I decided that I will never be in the room
[6:08]with that disgusting person ever again.
[6:11]So I was never in the room with him socially for business or even
[6:18]philanthropy. That guy was there.
[6:19]I wasn't going because he's gross.
[6:25]Emails published by the Trump Justice Department that date back to 2011
[6:29]show that Lutnick did actually meet with Epstein several times.
[6:33]And lawmakers pointed also, despite those comments that you heard there,
[6:37]to this photo from the files showing Howard Lutnick in the blue shirt here
[6:40]on Jeffrey Epstein's private island, a 2012 visit that Lutnick defended
[6:45]later on Capitol Hill.
[6:49]We had lunch on the island.
[6:51]That is true for an hour.
[6:53]And we left with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife
[6:58]all together. We were on family vacation.
[7:00]We were not a part to suggest there was anything untoward about that in 2012.
[7:06]I don't I don't recall why we did it, but Mr.
[7:12]As for what happened behind closed doors during Howard Lutnick's interview
[7:15]with the Oversight Committee today, which was transcribed but not recorded
[7:19]on video, it depends on who you ask and really what side of the aisle
[7:23]they sit on.
[7:26]If Donald Trump had seen the video transcript, he would have fired
[7:31]Howard Lutnick.
[7:33]It was really embarrassing.
[7:35]I feel very comfortable saying that Howard Lutnick is a pathological
[7:39]liar who is enabling the most egregious cover up in American history.
[7:44]I feel compelled to have to come out and clean up and correct
[7:50]some of the statements that the Democrats made.
[7:53]I couldn't believe as I was getting updates of what they were saying.
[7:57]And I hope that when you get the transcripts, you fact check them
[8:00]what they say.
[8:00]This is a habit of the Democrats on this committee coming out,
[8:05]telling you all stuff that was said that was not said.
[8:10]My source tonight was among the lawmakers in the room today,
[8:12]Democratic Congresswoman Yasemin Ansari of Arizona.
[8:16]Thank you for being here.
[8:17]I mean, you heard Chairman Comer there.
[8:19]You said Howard Lutnick is a pathological liar.
[8:22]Why?
[8:25]Thanks, Caitlin.
[8:26]You just showed a clip of Howard Lutnick from the podcast last year
[8:29]where he very forcefully says that he thought Jeffrey Epstein was disgusting
[8:34]and that him and his wife agreed that he would never see him again
[8:37]or have a personal or professional relationship.
[8:40]We grilled him today on that.
[8:42]We went line by line over the transcript from that podcast.
[8:47]And what was so jarring was that the secretary doubled down
[8:52]and tried to say that he was not lying in that podcast.
[8:56]He really was trying to redefine what he meant when he said,
[9:00]you know, I would never have this relationship.
[9:02]He kept saying, I as a man would never again be in a room with Howard Lutnick.
[9:08]So trying to say that he meant by himself,
[9:12]then of course we know that in 2012,
[9:14]he took his entire family to Jeffrey Epstein's island.
[9:18]I then asked him about whether or not he knew about the sweetheart deal in 2008
[9:24]and the many allegations against Jeffrey Epstein saying that he was a child abuser.
[9:30]Howard Lutnick tried to tell me that he had never heard of those things back in 2012.
[9:34]He had no idea.
[9:35]To me as a woman, I was the only female member of Congress
[9:39]who took part in the transcribed interviews today.
[9:42]I found that appalling.
[9:43]I mean, I was a child at the time when this happened.
[9:46]And I remember hearing about Jeffrey Epstein and what he was accused of.
[9:51]And then of course, what he got the sweetheart plea deal for,
[9:53]which was still solicitation of a minor.
[9:56]So I do hope the only thing I would agree with Chairman Comer on there
[10:00]is that I do hope Americans read the interview and read what happened today.
[10:06]It's very disappointing that they won't be able to see the video
[10:09]like they saw with the Clintons.
[10:11]Did Howard Lutnick say anything else about that visit to Jeffrey Epstein's island?
[10:17]He just repeated the same lines that it was, you know,
[10:21]very short that he kept repeating that his family was there.
[10:24]His staff was there.
[10:26]The line that he actually repeated, I will have to count.
[10:29]I felt to me like 20 or 30 times that the interactions he's ever had with Epstein,
[10:34]the several that he's had were meaningless and inconsequential.
[10:38]That's what he said repeatedly.
[10:40]But to me, I mean, this all just comes back to the fact that he did lie
[10:44]to the American people very blatantly.
[10:46]And then today to say that, to try to change the definition of words,
[10:51]it is so black and white.
[10:52]You said you never saw this person again.
[10:54]You were so disgusted by him in 2005.
[10:56]Your wife was so uncomfortable with him.
[10:58]But then you took your wife to his island just seven years later.
[11:03]There's no, none of it makes sense.
[11:07]This will be a transcript that we'll be able to read.
[11:10]Chairman Comer said that's because it was a voluntary interview from Howard Lutnick.
[11:14]But when you're reading something and seeing something,
[11:16]it's often sometimes has a different interpretation.
[11:19]Do you think there's anything that we won't be able,
[11:21]that people won't be able to glean from the transcript that happened in the room?
[11:26]Yeah, that's absolutely true.
[11:27]I mean, I think the defensiveness, the body language, all of that won't be seen.
[11:32]But I still actually do think that reading the back and forth will be very revealing
[11:37]in and of itself because it's just so baffling.
[11:40]Like the way he tries to get out.
[11:43]If I were him and all of this had come to light,
[11:46]I don't understand why you don't just admit that you were lying.
[11:49]But he refused to do that.
[11:51]And he tried to say he didn't lie.
[11:52]So I still highly recommend every American who cares about justice for the victims here
[11:58]reads this.
[11:59]And I think that the secretary should resign
[12:01]and that we need to actually bring him back again in the future.
[12:04]Right now, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick is on Capitol Hill
[12:06]facing questions over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
[12:09]Files released by the Justice Department earlier this year
[12:12]included this picture of Lutnick on Epstein's private island back in 2012.
[12:16]Years after Lutnick claimed to have cut him off,
[12:19]acknowledging in his own words that Epstein was a quote serial sex offender.
[12:24]Oversight Chairman James Comer spoke about that moments ago.
[12:28]I mean, I feel like that Lutnick's been very transparent.
[12:31]He came in voluntarily.
[12:34]I said before this thing started,
[12:36]the only thing that I had seen that Lutnick did wrong was wasn't 100% truthful
[12:40]on the brief visit to the island with his family.
[12:44]He corrected that in his opening statement.
[12:47]And, you know, we'll see.
[12:49]We'll continue our investigation.
[12:50]And if we find that there were any misstatements by Lutnick,
[12:54]it's a felony to lie to Congress and he'll be held accountable.
[12:59]We should note Lutnick has not been accused of any wrongdoing.
[13:02]Let's get some perspective now with Democratic Congressman of Virginia,
[13:04]Suha Subramaniam, a member of the Oversight Committee.
[13:07]Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.
[13:08]Thank you.
[13:09]First, what did you learn from the Commerce Secretary?
[13:12]I mean, he doubled down on the dishonesty.
[13:14]He said, yes, I met with him in 2005 with my wife.
[13:17]I went to his home.
[13:18]And then after that, I didn't meet with him in the same room again.
[13:22]Yeah, he was in the same room with him twice.
[13:24]He went to his island.
[13:25]He brought his family to the island.
[13:27]And so he was contradicting himself.
[13:29]He was nervous.
[13:29]He was evasive.
[13:31]He said that he didn't know why he went to the island.
[13:34]He doesn't remember why he went to the island in the first place.
[13:37]And so if we hadn't found those emails showing that he'd been to the island,
[13:40]if we hadn't found those pictures, I don't think he would have ever told us
[13:43]that he went to the island.
[13:44]He was very evasive.
[13:45]I think he needs to resign.
[13:47]Do you have evidence that would disqualify him as Commerce Secretary?
[13:52]Evidence of wrongdoing?
[13:53]I think being dishonest with Congress is wrongdoing.
[13:57]And that is disqualifying in and of itself.
[13:59]He clearly lied to the American people on that podcast he did
[14:02]where he said he never saw Jeffrey Epstein ever again.
[14:07]And yet he admitted that he saw him twice afterwards.
[14:10]He doubled down on that today.
[14:11]He said once again, I wasn't in the same room as him.
[14:13]But being in the same room with someone,
[14:15]even if there's other people in there, is the same thing.
[14:17]And so he was trying to redefine the word I to a different point.
[14:21]It was a very confusing interview and certainly disqualifying in my mind.
[14:25]So your response to Chairman Comer that we just heard there
[14:30]is that there should be further steps taken.
[14:32]Oh, I think so.
[14:34]I think he was dishonest with us.
[14:35]The reality is we gave him a chance to say,
[14:38]I misspoke before or I lied before.
[14:41]I was exaggerating because I was on a podcast.
[14:44]But he didn't say that.
[14:45]Instead, he doubled down saying that what he said was true.
[14:48]He doubled down on saying that he never saw Jeffrey Epstein ever again.
[14:51]But then he admitted he saw him two more times.
[14:54]And he even went to the island.
[14:55]And he doesn't remember why he went to the island.
[14:57]Just to be clear, he did not say today in front of Congress
[15:02]that he didn't see Jeffrey Epstein after 2005, right?
[15:05]He said that, yes, I saw him two more times,
[15:09]but I was never in the same room with him.
[15:10]I, Howard Lutnick, didn't put myself in the situation
[15:13]to be in the same room with him, which was really confusing, right?
[15:16]Because he was in the same room with him.
[15:19]It's odd because he's on this person's private island.
[15:24]Yes.
[15:25]And we asked him, why did you go to the private island
[15:27]if you thought he was disgusting or gross?
[15:29]And he says he doesn't remember.
[15:31]He doesn't remember why he brought his children
[15:33]and his wife and his friends to the island
[15:36]when he visited the island.
[15:37]You'd mentioned that podcast in which he described
[15:40]some of his relations with Epstein.
[15:42]This was from 2025 as a New York Post podcast.
[15:45]And he said that in 2005, Epstein showed him
[15:49]and his wife a massage room in his Manhattan townhouse,
[15:52]also making a suggestive comment to them.
[15:54]Epstein did.
[15:55]Lutnick said to the podcast, quote,
[15:58]that's what his MO was, get a massage, get a massage.
[16:01]And what happened in that room, I assume, was on video.
[16:04]This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever.
[16:07]Blackmail people, that's how he made his money.
[16:10]Lutnick said later in the podcast
[16:13]that he had no knowledge of a trade for these videos,
[16:16]that this is his assumption.
[16:17]I wonder what evidence you may have seen,
[16:20]what Lutnick said about this,
[16:21]but what evidence you may have seen
[16:23]that Epstein profited from having dirt on powerful people?
[16:27]We asked Lutnick about this, why he would say that.
[16:29]And he says he was simply on a podcast speculating.
[16:33]He called everything else in that podcast speculation.
[16:36]And so we asked him, what was the speculation based on?
[16:39]And he said, oh, just based on things I had heard.
[16:42]And so we asked whether he still thinks
[16:43]that blackmail was involved with Jeffrey Epstein,
[16:45]blackmailing other people.
[16:47]He said, no, I don't think that anymore.
[16:48]And we said, why?
[16:49]It's because the administration says
[16:50]it's not blackmail anymore.
[16:51]So he's clearly getting talking points
[16:53]from the administration on what to be saying at this point.
[16:56]He was very well-coached, I will say.
[16:58]But then when we kept pressing him,
[17:00]that's when he got nervous, he got evasive,
[17:03]and he started trying to redefine the word I.
[17:05]And so it was a very, very confusing interview
[17:08]and dishonest in my mind.
[17:09]So this was not taped.
[17:13]How do you think that impacts
[17:14]how the American people are going to receive this?
[17:16]Because they effectively have to take your word
[17:18]over the word of Chairman Comer,
[17:20]who's saying that he clarified
[17:21]the misstatements in the past and whatnot.
[17:23]How do you think the public is set to receive that?
[17:25]I now understand why Republicans
[17:27]didn't want this taped.
[17:28]Because if the president himself had seen this,
[17:31]he would want Howard Lutnick out.
[17:34]He looked awful.
[17:35]I mean, he just kept spinning himself in circles.
[17:38]He just didn't know what to say at certain points,
[17:40]except that he couldn't remember.
[17:42]And so it was very embarrassing.
[17:43]I understand why now.
[17:44]But the American people deserve the transparency.
[17:46]House Republicans continue to try to get in the way
[17:49]of actually doing a real investigation.
[17:51]This is one example, not taping this investigation.
[17:54]Before we go, Congressman,
[17:55]with a very short amount of time,
[17:57]you're set to hear from former Attorney General
[18:00]Pam Bondi at the end of the month.
[18:01]What do you plan to ask her?
[18:02]Well, first of all, we want that taped.
[18:04]We want that on the record.
[18:05]We want her being sworn in,
[18:07]because that's what the subpoena said.
[18:08]But the reality is,
[18:10]she has a lot of questions to answer
[18:11]about why there's so many files
[18:13]withheld right now, two and a half million files,
[18:15]and what her conversations with the president
[18:17]were like to lead to the decision
[18:18]not to release the files in the first place.
[18:20]In a CNN exclusive this morning,
[18:21]special treatment for Ghislaine Maxwell
[18:23]and punishment for talking about her.
[18:26]That is what some of the women say they experienced
[18:29]while serving time alongside Maxwell.
[18:31]Maxwell is, of course, a convicted sex offender
[18:34]and co-conspirator of Jeffrey Epstein.
[18:37]One of these women who is serving time
[18:39]for financial crimes asked to remain anonymous
[18:41]out of fear she will be punished.
[18:42]She told CNN's MJ Lee that a warden
[18:45]at the minimum security prison camp in Texas,
[18:47]where Maxwell was transferred,
[18:49]screamed at another inmate
[18:50]for calling Maxwell a pedophile
[18:52]and complaining about her.
[18:54]She and other inmates said they also quickly noticed
[18:57]just how differently Maxwell was being treated.
[19:32]Now, a Bureau of Prison spokesperson told CNN
[19:36]they do not discuss details related to specific inmates,
[19:39]but did say in part that they are committed
[19:41]to the highest standards of integrity,
[19:43]impartiality and professionalism.
[19:45]Joining us now, CNN legal analyst
[19:47]and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson.
[19:49]First of all, what do you make of this?
[19:52]Not only are they saying,
[19:53]look, she was given special treatment
[19:55]in this minimum security prison,
[19:57]but that they were punished for talking about her
[20:00]and also for talking to the media about her
[20:02]as well.
[20:03]Yes, Sarah, good morning to you.
[20:06]I think it feeds into the narrative that many share
[20:10]that she has information
[20:12]and that information could be very protective
[20:14]of a person who happens to be in the White House.
[20:17]Prisoners are not treated
[20:18]or given preferential treatment
[20:20]unless there's some imperative to do that.
[20:22]And so I think what people make of this
[20:24]is that when you have an interview
[20:26]with the deputy, then deputy attorney general
[20:29]of the United States, now acting attorney general,
[20:31]that interview lasts for two days.
[20:33]You're asked softball questions.
[20:35]You give information pretty much to determine
[20:37]what you know about the president
[20:39]and his relationships, if any,
[20:41]with Mr. Jeffrey Epstein, now deceased,
[20:44]what they were doing, where they were,
[20:46]what you know, can you clear him?
[20:48]And then what happens is, what, a week later,
[20:50]you're transferred to a camp
[20:52]and then not only you transferred to a camp,
[20:55]highly unusual for a deputy attorney general
[20:58]to be interviewing anyone,
[20:59]highly unusual for you to be transferred to a camp,
[21:01]highly unusual for you to be given special treatment
[21:04]and everybody else punished.
[21:06]And so it just begs the question
[21:08]of what she knows and what she can do
[21:10]and the fact that they are,
[21:11]that is, it appears to be,
[21:13]federal officials treating her differently.
[21:15]Why?
[21:16]And so that's the issue and the question.
[21:18]And as long as she's pampered
[21:20]and others are punished,
[21:21]it's going to feed into the narrative.
[21:23]Is there a pardon in her future?
[21:25]Is she going to have information
[21:27]that specifically exonerates the president?
[21:29]Is it going to be trusted?
[21:30]And so that's what I make of it, Sarah.
[21:32]She clearly has information
[21:33]that the United States government is interested in.
[21:36]She clearly has information
[21:38]that could be very protective of the president.
[21:40]And so as a result of that,
[21:41]I think she's given these special privileges
[21:44]and others are told to say nothing about it.
[21:48]What kind of issues could that mean
[21:50]for where she is with these inmates
[21:53]clearly upset about her preferential treatment
[21:56]but also about being muzzled in some instances,
[22:01]not being able to say what they think about her?
[22:06]Yes.
[22:06]So what happens, Sarah,
[22:07]is that, of course, you have certain remedies
[22:09]in the event that you're a prisoner.
[22:11]You have First Amendment rights.
[22:12]You're allowed to talk to the press.
[22:14]You might have things that you wish to say.
[22:16]And naturally, those rights are limited
[22:18]by safety and security concerns
[22:20]and they're subject to reasonable regulation.
[22:23]But the issue is,
[22:24]in the event that you're punished for speaking,
[22:27]yes, you can file internal grievances with the jail.
[22:31]Yes, you can file civil rights lawsuits.
[22:33]Yes, you consult the ACLU,
[22:35]American Civil Liberties Union.
[22:37]Yes, you can contact your local congressperson
[22:39]but it's a chilling effect.
[22:41]And so I think the effect based upon the conduct,
[22:44]yes, you have all sort of legal remedies
[22:46]but the practical effect is don't talk.
[22:49]Let us do what we want to do.
[22:50]If we want to afford her special privileges, we will.
[22:53]And if you say anything about this, good luck
[22:56]because the time that you get your remedy
[22:58]or action is taken on your behalf if you're a prisoner,
[23:01]it's too late and you've borne so many indignities.
[23:04]And so I think that really is the issue
[23:06]and it's really concerning to these particular inmates
[23:09]who are being treated unfairly for speaking up
[23:12]about what they perceive, Sara,
[23:13]to be an injustice of gross proportions.
[23:17]There's been some new reporting
[23:20]coming from House Oversight
[23:22]that there's become a split among members
[23:24]on whether or not they would support President Trump
[23:28]offering a pardon to Ghislaine Maxwell
[23:31]in order to allow her to cooperate fully
[23:33]with the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.
[23:35]The chairman had told Politico
[23:37]that there were a lot of people
[23:40]think it would be a good agreement
[23:42]though he thought it looks bad is how he had said it.
[23:45]Is there a split among the committee on this?
[23:47]Where are you on this?
[23:51]I would love to hear anyone on the committee
[23:54]who believes Ghislaine Maxwell should be pardoned
[23:57]to speak up about that and let us know
[23:59]because I have not heard of any member of Congress,
[24:02]much less anyone on the Oversight Committee
[24:04]supporting a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell.
[24:06]I would say the survivors
[24:08]and really anyone involved with these investigations
[24:10]would say that pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell
[24:12]would be the absolute worst thing we could possibly do.
[24:16]I'm not interested in what Ghislaine Maxwell has to say
[24:18]because she is a liar.
[24:20]She's been a proven liar over and over again
[24:22]and pardoning her is pardoning a monster.
[24:25]So she should never be pardoned
[24:26]and I would absolutely oppose that.
[24:28]So should every single member of Congress
[24:30]and everyone in the American public.