[0:11]and welcome to long crime report everybody i'm jesse weber and thanks for joining us we want to start off in idaho where brian drips has pleaded guilty to the rape and murder of 18 year old angie dodge
[0:22]25 years ago back in 1996. he admitted that he planned to sexually assault her but not to kill her he said i guess it just happened
[0:32]when i was there he even remarked that he doesn't remember slitting her throat and this is a man who wasn't arrested until 2019 when genetic genealogy linked him to the crime in fact another
[0:44]man christopher tap was arrested convicted and sentenced to 30 years to life for the crime that he didn't commit and he wasn't released until 2017. now i want to start with dodge himself
[0:55]you're going to hear him during his allocution this is a speech that he presented to the court take a look count one asset out in the information is the charge of murder in the first
[1:05]degree how do you plead tell me what you did which makes you guilty of this charge um
[1:18]well i was putting murder along all i really know is what i told the
[1:30]detectives that night and the interrogation was i went over there with the intent to just rape her pretty high in cocaine and alcohol
[1:41]i had a pocket knife with me and um i just remember from all the occasions
[1:52]it was just loud outside my head and um he said i don't really remember i didn't
[2:03]mean to murder her i didn't think i did but guess what's happening i do remember remember um
[2:34]i guess because i you know because i went over there like i said with the intent to just write her
[2:43]but i didn't
[2:50]and i didn't mean to murder him because it just happened during them for the purpose of the allocation uh i
[3:02]would ask mr drips can recall what he did with the knife i don't think we have that part and i think there's some additional details during the interrogation and he
[3:12]remembers at least part of that all right mr dress part of the question part of the allocation is in what manner what did you do with your
[3:21]pocket knife i don't really remember much i might have handled two of them but that's about all i can remember
[3:35]you remember cutting the victim's throat no no sure do you deny that that occurred i don't
[3:46]deny it i mean i can't remember it though but this queen
[4:10]the defendant understands the nature of the charges against him and the consequences of a guilty plea the court finds there's a factual basis for the plea and that it is being made freely and
[4:21]voluntarily i'll therefore accept that directly from the end of that guilty plea will set this matter for sentencing i will order a pre-sentence report on this as well some chilling words right there okay
[4:35]let's break it down joining me today long crime legal analyst imran ansari and criminal defense attorney silva mergadicchian i'm great to have you both here and silva it's good to see you back here on the program emmer and i
[4:47]want to start with you you have a guy who was seemingly free for for years they had another guy in custody that another guy who was serving a time he gets released and now they've
[4:58]ultimately apprehend him why do you think now he decided mr drips to plead guilty sure jesse well you know a they had the
[5:08]pretty conclusive dna evidence regarding this individual and it was a long time coming um he had a you know a good stint if you will of freedom when he should have been behind bars and what's really um
[5:20]shocking and somewhat an egregious side story in this is the fact that someone spent a significant amount of time behind bars for a crime that he did not commit um so
[5:31]in essence this is really justice at play um he's taking responsibility for this crime he's taking the plea uh it's a negotiated plea of i think 20 to life
[5:41]um he's going to be sentenced on this um and he's no longer denying uh that he uh murdered uh this individual so um it's been a long time coming but the
[5:52]dna evidence was pretty conclusive uh and i think you know they took they got a match off the cigarette butt to the crime scene um and i think the plea was
[6:01]uh a long time coming okay well here's the problem silva not only do you have a guy who brutally raped and murdered a girl back in 1996 and left the family wondering
[6:12]but he allowed another person to basically serve his prison sentence okay and now you have him and he's taking this deal where he gets the minimum of 20 years in prison maybe life
[6:24]uh death penalty taken off the table you know uh christopher tap who served the sentence he got 30 years minimum and then you see this thing that
[6:35]mr drips might be imprisoned in what's quoted the best suited idaho department of correction medical facility in order to treat his issues is he just getting the best deal
[6:46]or am i not looking at it the right way considering what he did well i think jesse that all your points are valid the problem is in this justice system not everything
[6:58]not everybody is satisfied by what happens imran is right though justice was served and the unfortunate thing also is another man through a coerced confession
[7:08]is what it looks like thankfully he was exonerated recently in 2019 but in situations especially when there's a plea deal where the defendant is
[7:19]avoiding trial he does get certain benefits one benefit absolutely like you said removing the death penalty the second benefit maybe being placed in a facility
[7:30]that's not as you know ridiculous or um ugly in its form so yeah by pleading in this way by giving this voluntary waiver
[7:41]by also saying look i don't really remember murdering her but i'm willing to take the fall for this that does give you certain benefits when you plead like this so yeah you're
[7:53]right but at the same time justice is served for those families who finally have the right person behind bars feasibly for the rest of his existence and let's talk about the fact that
[8:04]christopher tapp he sued the police department and idaho falls for a wrongful conviction it seems that this is a prime case where he
[8:15]should be rewarded for what ultimately happened but how does that play out imran yeah no so jesse i think i mean obviously the plea and the closure for the family and getting the
[8:25]right guy behind bars is is a big story but to me what's really uh the more problematic uh story here is the fact that christopher tap spent all that time behind bars um and what
[8:37]announced to be what appears to be a coerced confession and i think that is what we take away from this um that there are certain police tactics or techniques that need to be reviewed
[8:49]that they lead to the wrong people sometimes spending a significant amount of time but behind bars and they lead to some injustice and we have someone who was interrogated
[9:00]confessed to a crime that they did not commit uh even implicated some other people who i understand were ultimately not tied to the crime um all under the pressure of law enforcement with a seemingly
[9:11]coarse confession i think he should be uh rewarded for all that time he spent behind bars a civil suit is appropriate in this op in this case in my opinion uh and i think that's something what we
[9:22]really have to take away from this um is that someone uh is that justice and law enforcement sometimes needs to be checked the procedures that are employed sometimes need to be checked
[9:33]and we have the right person behind bars but unfortunately there was a collateral toll with that process it's a sad case and a unique case when
[9:43]you have carol dodge who's angie's mother she was actually petitioning and fighting for christopher tap's innocence that's the case that we're dealing with here and just to focus a little bit more on
[9:54]the dodge family we also heard from tyler dodge who was uh angie's nephew take a listen to what he had to say it's been a burden that we've carried for a long time
[10:04]it's been 25 years uh since we lost my aunt aunt angie and we're happy with what's transpired today uh there is a lot of value and a lot of wisdom and finality and conclusion and i
[10:15]think that's what we've we've gotten today we are grateful for those that have worked on this case that have helped to come to this conclusion we are
[10:25]looking forward as a family to healing and to writing the next chapter of our lives thank you silva when you look at this case
[10:36]the first thing that strikes you is the similarities to a lot of these cold cases that are being solved through genetic genealogy same thing that we saw with the golden state killer
[10:46]walk us through you know the impact that this new form of detective work this new form of investigation this new science is able to solve these crimes that we
[10:56]once weren't able to solve and what impact do you think it's going to have in the future well it's been incredible and that's the difference between let's say a coerced confession in actual science
[11:08]science will not get it wrong and if done correctly if the specimen is not corrupted that's why it's so important that there's proper training to keep these specimen
[11:19]clean so that the dna evidence will be conclusive more and more we're seeing that these cases are being solved i mean you look at all of these netflix shows where serial killers had gotten away with
[11:31]so many murders you're not going to see that anymore because of the scientific advances behind dna evidence and the conclusiveness of it i mean we always say the defense
[11:42]has the right to have an expert who can't testify against the scientific evidence but again done correctly it really does remove a major aspect
[11:51]to a criminal defense and again for the parents to have this type of assurances that this in fact is the guy and he is taking accountability
[12:02]um we really do have to thank the science behind it for really solving this murder so far in advance and unlike human error
[12:11]again dna evidence doesn't lie imran i'm confused about something though you have this guy who pleads guilty to his crimes yet he doesn't remember
[12:21]details he doesn't remember killing angie what's that about does he legitimately not remember do you think he's just trying to spare those gruesome details from the public from the family because
[12:32]or do we take his word for it that he doesn't really remember this yeah jesse um you know during the plea allocations that's something what uh sort of stuck out at me um is the fact that he does not recall
[12:43]the actual murder although he is pleading guilty to that crime um and that's why the judge went back to the prosecutor um asked her to present any sort of opinion or questions regarding
[12:55]his memory or his ability to allocute uh to this plea and whether she was satisfied whether that uh the statement that he made would support the
[13:06]conviction the judge found it to be satisfactory um he does not deny uh that he uh killed her um although he does not recall it um so
[13:16]that was something which i think on appeal if someone wanted to attack that down the line that could be some ground but i think that this was probably well uh discussed between defense counsel and
[13:27]the prosecutor they probably have it nicely in writing and the allocation there is that although he does not recall whether because he was so high or drunk um he does not deny
[13:39]and that's why i believe that his plea if it was attacked for some reason down the way and he may be signing a waiver of appeal along with this plea i would imagine but it would not stand up i think this
[13:51]was a free voluntary uh plate and it's going to stand up silva i want to ask you one last question before we hit our break we have about 30 seconds were you surprised that he ultimately
[14:02]took this plea deal because if you look at his case there was a whole issue i'm talking about mr drips there was a whole big issue about did he actually confess to this when he was
[14:11]with police or was he not properly or did not probably understand his miranda rights there seemed some ground there to put up a really strong defense and they chose not to do that when you look at that
[14:22]were you surprised that he ultimately pled guilty you know i yes as a defense counsel but i think there's a something huge that needs to be understood defense counsel can lead our client to take
[14:34]certain procedural directions but at the end of the day the defendant the client makes the decision and he decided he wanted to take accountability regardless of the
[14:44]weaknesses of the case yeah all right well look he's going to be uh brian drips is going to be sentenced on april 27th for a crime that he should have been convicted and sentenced to
[14:54]many years ago we're going to take a break when we come back we're going to focus on new findings in the kobe bryant helicopter crash we'll be back i can't imagine how difficult today must
[15:12]be for you and of course every day uh since january 26 2020 so my heart goes out to you and i'll get
[15:23]into this later but after today uh today is just the beginning of the board's action uh to uh improve safety
[15:33]improve aviation safety and to ensure that this a similar accident doesn't occur again and that's a member of the national transportation and safety board and the
[15:43]ntsb has concluded that the pilot of the helicopter carrying kobe bryant his daughter and several others which tragically crashed and resulted in the deaths of all on board that he suffered from
[15:55]spatial disorientation these federal officials determined that the pilot ara zobian flew into foggy conditions when he shouldn't have and he wasn't able to see they even said that zabayan
[16:06]may have pressured himself to finish the trip quickly this was uh something we've been waiting a long time to hear and imran i'll start with you big breakthrough here the idea that it wasn't mechanical failure
[16:18]something to do with the helicopter but pilot error pilot mistake pilot doing something that he shouldn't have your reaction yeah in terms of um the lawsuit and the
[16:29]legal uh proceedings that are accompanying this tragic accident i mean it has bearing because this individual was an employee of the helicopter company uh that is ultimately on the uh the
[16:41]defense side of a lawsuit um i think it's going to have bearing in terms of the liability question there in terms of how he was trained and what sort of procedures they had
[16:51]at this helicopter company we know he was a seasoned seasoned pilot um this wasn't his first time uh you know taking a helicopter up there in fact he was kobe bryant's
[17:01]usual pi pilot if you will um but it's going to be uh in terms of it not being a mechanical failure well that rules out a lot in terms of what
[17:12]an argument can be on both sides of that lawsuit and i think it puts a liability question pretty firmly on that helicopter company and also how
[17:22]and what procedures or training they implemented in terms of this pilot and how they operated their company a lot of things to break down there's silva i'm going to turn to you on this because as
[17:34]uh imran was saying that vanessa bryant the widow of kobe bryant um mother of gianna sued zobian's estate and the companies that owned and operated the helicopter claiming negligence
[17:46]uh wrongful death um the families of the other victims have sued the helicopter companies as well and you know basically they didn't train they didn't supervise obayan as they should have had
[17:57]and now we're dealing with this conclusion so if you are representing uh the the state of zobian you're representing the helicopter company what do you do what's your defense is
[18:08]this conclusion by this independent federal agency the end-all be-all for you or do you get a second opinion how do you defend this when the ntsb
[18:19]just said in our conclusion it was the pilot's fault absolutely the defense will have to get their own expert to counter what the ntsb found what's really bad for the defense
[18:30]team is the two aspects that the ntsb found the first of course he ignored specific safety measures he ignored putting in weather conditions in the
[18:41]control panel of the helicopter and jesse i'll tell you that day of the crash i actually live in woodland hills california and i was actually walking my dog i did not see kobe's helicopter but i saw a
[18:52]rescue copter flying towards calabasas we live about 15 minutes away from there and i remember turning to my husband and saying god it's a really foggy day for a rescue helicopter to be flying
[19:03]something must have happened and the other aspect to this is the pressure to perform as a defense counsel i would say look he had 8 500 hours of
[19:13]flight experience he was flying over 10 years kobe trusted this man to fly his children even without kobe present and there was a lot of pressure whether it be internal pressure meaning that
[19:25]the pilot felt that i cannot disappoint this man who trusts me with everything or external was kobe saying look man no matter what i need to get there there is a tournament we need to be there
[19:36]although there's no evidence of that as defense counsel i would grab on that saying that because of the pressure his number one person that he has to make sure satisfied is kobe
[19:48]when in fact the number one thing that should have been adhered to are the safety measures that federally cannot be ignored so it's great for you know again
[19:58]for the families of the victims you can't say great but at least it's very good for them to get some sort of assistance and help financially for the loss and really bad for council that's
[20:10]representing the helicopter company and pilot let's continue a little bit more with the ntsb from their findings about what caused the crash take a look the pilot was certificated current and
[20:24]qualified to fly in visual flight rules in accordance with federal regulations and company requirements he had about 8 57 hours flying experience which included about 1
[20:35]250 hours in the sikorsky s 76 series helicopter and about 75 hours of instrument flying time there was no evidence of any pre-existing medical conditions and no
[20:46]evidence of acute or chronic sleep loss after gaining employment with island express the pilot completed all required company training
[20:55]including sikorsky s76 ground and flight training which contained modules for aeronautical decision making and judgment instrument procedures unusual attitude flight
[21:06]procedures for recovering from inadvertent entry into instrument meteorological conditions and spatial disorientation as the chief pilot he held the responsibility of supervising and training all island
[21:18]express pilots upon advancement to czech airman he gained the additional responsibility of evaluating sikorsky s 76 pilots during their annual proficiency and line
[21:28]checks island express contracted with an outside training vendor that reinforced the ground in flight training using the company's helicopters for company policy pilots were to fly no
[21:41]lower than 300 feet above ground level with 500 to 1000 feet above ground level recommended as a minimum altitude company policy identified one nautical mile as the minimum visibility
[21:52]when operating an uncontrolled airspace these company minimums were more conservative than the federal aviation regulation part 135 helicopter altitude and visibility
[22:02]minimums company policy stated that all flights were to be accomplished in accordance with federal regulations and required pilots to obtain a weather
[22:13]briefing from the approved weather sources and in the absence of that by whatever sources are available about two hours before his departure from the john wayne orange county airport
[22:23]the pilot completed a flight risk assessment that was consistent with weather forecasts available at that time the flight risk assessment fell into the low risk category and required no further actions
[22:34]the pilot developed a plan to avoid forecasted clouds by flying east and north of downtown los angeles and filed a company flight during the climb and subsequent descent the pilot communicated with air traffic
[22:45]control on numerous occasions but did not declare an emergency the excessive speed entering the clouds the rapid rate of climb and the left turn
[22:55]were inconsistent with his training imran still speaking about the defense as we listen to these conclusions the pilot's brother who says that kobe
[23:05]bryant assumed the risks of flying that the the victims don't deserve they're not entitled to any damages whatsoever uh uh that's one argument you also hear the helicopter
[23:17]companies who previously said that this could be controlled it was an act of god i'm not sure that that argument's going to hold water but the idea that the the passengers assume the risks of flying
[23:28]is that argument still hold for zobian's estate maybe the helicopter companies sure jesse i mean there is always a risk to
[23:38]something like flying or or taking a public transport or things like that there's a risk in everything in life but if it's inherently dangerous
[23:48]um or not inherently dangerous then that assumption of risk argument either succeeds or fails here i don't think it's successful um so they relied on the
[23:59]expertise of this pilot they relied on the expertise of this helicopter company and i think what we get from the ntsb is that um the helicopter company may be in better
[24:09]shape than the estate of the pilot itself it appears that he did follow the guidelines while he was at least preparing for this flight but he made a judgment call himself um
[24:21]while he was mid-flight uh to accelerate and go into those clouds and or fog i think that is the action that is the act which could be
[24:30]the libel act if you will um however we have a pilot uh who's deceased we have a case where um the parties are arguably deceased the best witnesses if you will
[24:42]so i think that this will ultimately end up in some sort of settlement and not trial um because we're running out of time on this topic but i do want to ask you one
[24:53]more question about this um the helicopter companies seemingly to protect themselves insure themselves they've countersued two fa faa air traffic controllers saying that they
[25:04]uh you know created a series of erroneous acts and emissions that helped contribute to the crash does that go out of the water now considering that what we just heard from the ntsb what about 30 seconds on that sure yeah
[25:16]no jesse uh not necessarily like we have to see exactly what they're pointing to in terms of possible contributory negligence by these air traffic controllers
[25:26]did they give this pilot enough warning did they provide enough information to this pilot as he was traveling into that area i think from the ntsb findings we don't
[25:37]find any real discussion from that so based on what we can take from this i don't think that they will necessarily succeed on that argument but you have to bring in all the parties and mitigate
[25:47]your damages in the civil case and that's what they're doing and that makes sense and silva i wanted to just come to you with one final question about this uh the kobe bryant crash aside now that
[25:59]they have come the ntsb has come out with these conclusions what is what kind of legislation what kind of guidelines should be enacted to prevent this from happening again because that
[26:10]is something that the ntsb does they have no enforcement action but they do provide these kind of guidelines advice on how to prevent this from happening so what do they do there were two issues that i saw huge
[26:22]with the press conference jesse that it reminded me that legislation is likely going to change the first was i guess this helicopter was usually flown by two pilots
[26:33]and the interesting thing about spatial disorientation is that usually if one pilot feels it that's why you have the other pilot who's able to stabilize the copter so i do have a feeling that maybe the fd
[26:44]they will look further into that and the second aspect is mandating that pilots absolutely put updated weather conditions when they are flying and not
[26:55]you know again you have to use what you have and the tools in that copter to guide you accordingly it's just such a massive fail from the pilot and the unfortunate thing is the pilot lost
[27:06]his life too there was an intent here it was just human error it's sad it's sad for everyone that was on board and it said for all the families and people that were affected
[27:17]by this just a tragedy and that we're going to continue to follow this case but we have to take a break when we come back we're going to switch gears update for you in the galen maxwell case
[27:26]stay tuned welcome back everybody so here's an interesting thing that we're going to talk about and it's about gallane
[27:38]maxwell the former associate of jeffrey epstein is not having a great day again because as you know she is criminally charged with allegedly recruiting minors for sexual abuse and then lying about it and her trials coming up
[27:49]in july and she just took another blow because a judge has ruled that certain redacted portions of her deposition from a 2016 civil lawsuit can now be made public
[28:00]according to judge prescott any private interest she has in sealing this portion of testimony does not outweigh the presumption of public access
[28:10]that attaches to it silva let's break this down for a second why is this important if i'm just following why is it important that this excerpt can be made public and why does
[28:20]gallant maxwell not want it to be made public well her council made it clear that they thought that parts of it were really embarrassing and the judge
[28:32]covered that by saying look what happens between consenting adults will be kept private because it's not really relevant in this case but when it comes to actual evidence and
[28:43]statements made um it's hurtful i mean you can tell when you read the deposition how she answers the questions ms maxwell she's very intelligent she
[28:54]um is able to kind of skew her answers um in a very professional way for instance they were talking about a doll a puppet almost that was used with prince
[29:05]andrew and she kept on calling it a caricature so it a lot of it is damaging in that it shows that she was in concert with
[29:14]epstein in some capacity um when it came to providing him with females and it does hurt her defense there's just no two ways about it so of
[29:25]course she would want that block it's best that she remained silent and everything that she said concerning this through deposition also remained
[29:34]silent and this is not her last bite of the apple right because u.s district judge allison nathan is the one who's overseeing her criminal case and judge nathan can
[29:45]decide what can what part of the deposition can and cannot be used what do you expect from this judge in that case i actually
[29:54]do strongly believe even without my defense goggles on i do believe that it will be allowed in it's a legally done deposition i don't
[30:05]see that her need for privacy rises above the need for factual evidence in the trial i do think it's going to be allowed and i don't see how defense counsel
[30:16]can get away from that i just don't see the argument they're going to argue again that this is not relevant that it is private that it is a deposition that should not be made public
[30:28]again i just don't think when you weigh when you balance the two sides that that's enough to keep that deposition out of evidence this time keep go
[30:39]keeps going on as july keeps approaching the question is will we see a plea deal will something be worked out i don't know there's still got some months between now and then we'll wait to see but i do want to switch gears and focus on
[30:51]another high profile individual you might have heard about this and it concerns paris hilton because paris hilton testified at a state senate hearing in utah about allegedly being
[31:02]physically and mentally abused when she was a teenager at the provo canyon boarding school really disturbing allegations here and she's pushing for legislation to promise more oversight over these
[31:14]institutions even at a federal level to give you a sampling here's a portion of her testimony in case you missed it provo canyon school excuses their abusive behavior by saying they are now
[31:25]owned by a new company universal health services uhs you can't silence me after conducting extensive research we found out that
[31:36]while this facility was indeed sold after my time the practices used and the staff employed remained and remained today the same
[31:46]one staff member would brag to other students that she was the one who broke paris hilton violating confidentiality is not only
[31:55]unethical but also a violation of hipaa this woman was employed by universal health services for 20 years she was let go this october only after
[32:06]my documentary premiered i tell my story not so that anyone feels bad for me but to shine a light on the reality of what happened then
[32:16]and is still happening now the people who work at run and fund these programs should be ashamed of themselves how can people live with themselves
[32:29]knowing this abuse is happening right now in utah there are thousands of children experiencing abuse that do not have access to legal counsel
[32:39]advocacy or their family and friends and who are counting on us to do the right thing we all of us have the opportunity today to lead by example
[32:50]and make a difference in saving children's lives i'm calling not only on the people in this room but also elected leaders like representative scott
[33:01]senator schumer speaker pelosi vice president harris and president biden and everyone listening to my voice today to denounce
[33:12]child abuse you're hearing some really powerful words and very strong accusations imran what happens next well i think you know she's made a
[33:24]pretty powerful statement that there should be government oversight and legislation that really checks these schools and these institutions and make sure
[33:35]uh that children and are essentially not put to abuse not put to a certain you know conduct or
[33:46]or implementation that is abusive or dangerous to them i think paris hilton really made a compelling uh statement there at the utah state capitol and also called on the federal
[33:56]government to act on this to have oversight and legislation to make sure that these institutions don't go unchecked that they don't they aren't allowed to implement
[34:06]certain things that are harmful to children when they should be trying to help children so um i give a kudos to paris hilton for getting out there and getting this message out because i
[34:17]think it's something that's not necessarily on the public radar you don't necessarily think about these boarding schools and these institutions and she's put it out there and i think she's has at least a state government in
[34:28]utah looking at this pretty seriously and she's called on the federal government to likewise look at these institutions look at their policies and think about whether
[34:38]legislation and laws should be enacted in order to make sure that they follow certain codes of conduct that are not harmful to the children who are at those schools
[34:49]and imran to follow up what about criminal charges here um based upon what you've seen in this case and the allegations that have been asserted is there anything that can happen at
[35:00]that level sure well some of the allegations that uh paris hilton discusses tonight and if you go through them they do rise to a level
[35:10]arguably that constitute abuse and not just abuse uh on a civil uh sort of definition but abuse on a criminal definition also
[35:20]so whether law enforcement in utah with this particular school or law enforcement in whatever jurisdiction that one of these schools may be in and and may implement some of
[35:30]these procedures or practices they could be on the radar now of law enforcement and when someone comes to them with a complaint that a child uh was abused and put
[35:42]forward to sort of conduct and actions that rise to the level of criminality i wouldn't be surprised now now that it is on the radar um that they will look into this and yes
[35:53]if someone is abused put into restraints physically emotionally traumatized those actions could arise to a level of criminality and arrest
[36:02]could possibly be made and you know what's interesting silva we see this we see the efforts for criminal justice reform being made by kim kardashian these people with really
[36:14]high profiles a huge megaphone to speak to the world this might not have happened they are able to do something right that lawyers and private citizens and
[36:25]ordinary citizens might not be able to do so as much as people you know can criticize someone with a large following or tic tac all this it really does serve a public good when you're able to channel that
[36:36]and bring awareness and attention to these issues and i'm curious what you think about that uh being a lawyer and being in the in this kind of capacity of trying to make change yeah
[36:46]absolutely i think when you do have that megaphone of influence you can bring to light i mean again look at women who stood up against sexual aggressors the
[36:56]high-profile women that spoke out really brought a cause forward when it came to sexual abuse i mean you know look at larry nassar and the famous gymnasts who came out
[37:08]you know look at the sexual harassment issues that we've had the louder the louder the presence the louder the voice if you will um in california we've been lucky though when it comes to legislation
[37:19]about these kinds of camps or placements or boarding schools that has been pretty much terminated especially when it comes to juvenile delinquency in california
[37:30]things have really changed dramatically where you know using physical punishment against children in a restrictive fashion whether it comes from boarding schools or rehabilitative centers
[37:42]is over now and i think again just like imran said paris did do a phenomenal job painting a picture of what this type
[37:51]of physical and mental abuse what it can do to a young person and how you still carry the scars from it because i think it's pretty clear she's not getting
[38:02]anything from this exposure she's opening herself up to a lot of people's criticism why didn't she speak out earlier so i think she had a lot of courage and it does shine a light
[38:13]and these places are going to be a lot more careful in how they train their instructors on dealing with children well she called out the new biden harris
[38:23]administration the question is were they listening to her wait and see we're going to take a break when we come back we're going to focus on a tragic story
[38:33]that really really is so sad about a grandfather who is charged in the death or negligent homicide
[38:41]of his granddaughter we'll be back and welcome back everybody salvatore sam anello
[38:52]has been sentenced to three years probation this is the grandfather who pleaded guilty to negligent homicide when he was supposed to be watching his 18 month old granddaughter chloe on a royal caribbean
[39:03]cruise ship but she fell through a window on the 11th floor plummeting to her death and as part of this deal with puerto rican prosecutors not only will he not serve any prison time
[39:15]but he's also going to serve his probation in his home state of michigan let's take a listen to what anello had to say about what happened it's our fault and i was just in
[39:26]disbelief i was like oh my god and then i just remember screaming that i thought there was glass
[39:37]walk me through what you remember all right so she's down at the looking at the out the window in the
[39:47]glass i bent down by her and then we always like when you're whoever wrote a hockey game we would bang on the glass and it was fun you know so when i melt down to be with her at that
[39:58]level i couldn't reach the glass really with my fingertips so i knew she couldn't so that's when i decided i'd pick her up so i you know was trying to stand her on
[40:10]the railing and it happened in seconds imran this is a awful case this is an absolutely awful case
[40:19]um and now we see a conclusion what do you think of the conclusion for mr inello um given everything that we know about what happened um do you think this is the i don't want to
[40:30]say the best conclusion possible giving given what happened but given you know the family and what really transpired is this the best case that we could have that they could have
[40:42]hoped for jesse i never agreed with this prosecution when the news came out just generally about what happened
[40:52]um it was shocking it was saddening and then it was followed by the news that this grandfather was being criminally prosecuted uh for this act i never agreed with it i think it was uh
[41:04]you know pouring salt on a already um deep and painful wound uh you know i think there was nothing yes it's criminally negligent homicide it's not an
[41:13]intentional uh crime but still i think it was a there was a lack of sensitivity in my opinion on the prosecutor's part than in puerto rico and this was something that should not
[41:23]have been prosecuted um i think him taking the plea and getting probation is the family's attempt and his attempt to just seek closure of this and move on from a very
[41:34]tragic family experience of course they do have the lawsuit against the cruise ship company um for what they are alleging to be negligence on their part regarding this
[41:44]window but in some chassis i just don't think that this grandfather should have been prosecuted i think this was a deeply painful thing and i mean i can't even imagine it um what that family was going through
[41:54]and the pain and guilt that he may feel inside um so it's closure at least on the criminal side for this and let's see what happens with the civil suit
[42:04]and let's talk about that silva this lawsuit that the family has filed against the royal caribbean cruise is saying why on earth would you have this open window on the 11th floor
[42:16]and there was a back and forth about whether or not anello knew that the duke the window opened or not and was it his fault your your analysis on if that's a strong lawsuit and what could ultimately result
[42:27]from it well first of all it's an absolutely strong lawsuit against royal caribbean i mean the issue is also they said it was for ventilation but this
[42:38]was an area with children i mean you need ventilation in hotel rooms on the hundredth floor but we always see those windows are bound i do think it's going to be very
[42:49]difficult for royal caribbean to defend itself in such an emotional lawsuit and enron is absolutely correct the prosecutors really
[43:00]missed an opportunity to an opportunity to have supreme compassion this man has already been punished in the worst way that anybody has ever been punished he
[43:11]lost his beloved granddaughter according to the family he is inconsolable and the fact of the matter is i wish they took this in front of a jury because no jury would have convicted this man of
[43:22]anything if he was on the stand testifying to the loss of his daughter nobody believes that this man from what the family is saying that he believed that that window was
[43:33]open he had taken this young girl to hockey games he assumed the window would be closed and i do think it's highly negligent of what royal caribbean did um
[43:44]and again i i cannot see them winning in this lawsuit right and kimberly wygant who's chloe's mother said there are a million things
[43:55]that could have been done to make that safer i remember when i first heard this case it it was really impossible to make sense of why this happened and who was at fault but at the
[44:06]end of the day you have a family who is grieving you have a grandfather who is not in prison as you said he suffered the worst punishment and as both of you said we'll see what this lawsuit ultimately
[44:16]brings imran silva i appreciate you taking the time everyone out there thanks for joining us here on long crime report
[44:22]we'll be back tomorrow 12 p.m eastern
[44:57]you