[0:00]Hello and welcome to the world this week with me Gavin Lee reviewing the past seven days of global news stories alongside two distinguished correspondents this week as president Mron is due to give a press conference any minute which we will bring to you
[0:12]live and discuss afterwards too with my corrected revised redacted panel tonight Vivian Walt Paris correspondent for Time magazine and Fortune magazine evening to you Viv great that you're here and also our international affairs commentator
[0:24]Doug Herbert evening to you Doug >> evening >> in a week where the names of those listed in the Epstein files s have continued to feel the consequences at least on this side of the channel. Resignations and investigations underway
[0:35]now in France and Norway. The British Prime Minister narrowly surviving for now. And while Kia Starama was fighting for his political life, the US Attorney General Pam Bondi was in combative mood
[0:46]as she was pressed for 5 hours by the House Judiciary Committee on alleged mishandling of the Epstein files release and for apparently redacting the wrong names and asked why too. The Department
[0:56]of Justice hadn't pursued more indictments. >> I'm going to answer the question. >> I answer my question. >> No, you don't tell me. >> I did tell you because we saw what you did in the Senate. >> You're a lawyer. You're not even a
[1:08]lawyer. If they're not privileged, >> quiet. >> Don't yell at me. >> I'll reclaim my time. This wasn't a trick question. >> You don't get to reclaim your time. Do you want me to answer or do you want to interrupt? Don't you ever accuse me of
[1:18]>> I believe you. The way this is better with this woman is embarrassing. He's a hypocrite. This is so ridiculous. >> It's been a week of existential talk
[1:29]over Europe's place in the world. President Macron speaking of the dangerous squeeze between the US and China and the risk of being swept aside unless the EU unties its regulation, reforms its rules, and builds economic
[1:40]sovereignty to protect without protectionism, he suggests, raising the eyebrows of some fellow leaders who've long cherished an open market. Europe's detachment issues is a key theme of this week's global gathering at the Munich
[1:51]Security Conference. the so-called Davos for the defense industry. The Ukraine war a special focal point as it was too at the Winter Olympics as the athlete Vladislav Herchevich was disqualified
[2:01]for breaching non-political rules. He was wearing a helmet honoring 24 Ukrainian athletes victims of the war. It was clearly not a comfortable decision for the Olympic Committee
[2:11]chief. We we have these rules in place to try and be fair and also to try and allow for us to do
[2:22]both things, right? To allow for athletes to express themselves, but also to allow for athletes to be safe. >> It's been a week of shock and mourning in Canada after a mass school shooting in British Columbia. At least 10 people
[2:34]died, including children as young as 12. Police say the suspect, 18-year-old Jesse Van Rutsulah, a biological male identifying as female, had previous mental health concerns with police having been called out two years ago to
[2:45]seize firearms. But officers say they had quote, "No idea of the motive for the killings." And it's been a week that seen the occupied West Bank return to the
[2:56]headlines. The Israeli security cabinet approving a set of measures that make it easier for Jewish settlers to acquire land, shifting the power from Palestinian authority to Israeli authorities when it comes to laws around
[3:06]planning, construction, property, and enforcement. Critics, including many Arab states, arguing this is de facto annexation on the quiet. While the tension is on extraordinary events elsewhere, while President Trump had
[3:17]previously stated his opposition to any Israeli annexation, little was said as he met Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House on Wednesday. The focus was on how to deal with Iran by diplomacy or
[3:28]military force. There's still nothing definitive, at least publicly. >> Do you think a deal with Iran with this current regime would ever really stick?
[3:40]>> I don't know. I mean, uh, I don't know. I know one thing. They want to make a deal. They wouldn't talk to anybody else, but they're talking to me. >> Vivian, great that you're with us. We
[3:51]may get interrupted at some point by President Mron during his live speech. Let me ask you the developments in the West Bank uh this week um the decades old prohibition of the direct sale of
[4:00]the West Bank uh now being cancelled that Jewish settlers can more easily get territory. What what you're reading into how significant these events are this week?
[4:10]>> I mean I think that it's of course it's significant but it's also incremental. It's basically what has been steadily happening over the last two three years
[4:21]and I was actually on the West Bank a couple of months ago and the situation there is truly dire. I mean there are you know villages that have been totally
[4:32]cleaned out of people because life has become completely unlivable. People can't work. they can't harvest their you know crops such as they are um their
[4:44]olive trees largely they can't move from one village to to the other because of the roadblock so it's really become a kind of suffocating situation it's
[4:54]become somewhat of an ignored situation through the two and a half years of the Gaza conflict >> um but it's one that potentially has
[5:04]just as much ramifications for um for Israel >> well I mentioned And in the meantime, extraordinary events going on. So too, let's take a look at some images coming from the Munich Security Conference that
[5:15]started today. The pre uh summit report, which kind of sets out the stall and purpose of the conference, is under the cheerful name under destruction. A reference to the old world order, the postworld war II system with the sub
[5:27]theme of Europe's detachment issues. Doug, as we wait for President Mron, he may speak in any moment. Uh who's do you think is the most anticipated speech this year? with you. >> Well, this year that's not even a trick
[5:39]question. It's going to be Marco Rubio who's set to speak tomorrow. And why is he most anticipated? Because the hope among those gathering here is that they are going to hear far different words than what they heard a year ago when JD
[5:50]Vance stepped up to that podium and and essentially dropped an anvil on the audience. uh no one was quite expecting the type of speech they got castigating laying into Europe on from everything from the way it handled the im
[6:00]immigration to accusations of throttling free speech at home uh to uh also him accusing Europe of of basically unjustly barring the far-right parties. So
[6:10]literally also interference in European politics uh uh you know putting his thumb on the scales in favor of the far right. uh it was a speech that in every way not just you know clashed uh
[6:21]frontally with European sensibilities but it was a speech unlike anything really that had come before it at that podium. I mean, you might make comparisons to write Vladimir Putin's 2007 uh speech at the Munich Security
[6:33]Conference where he, you know, laid into the West and and NATO specifically, calling it an existential threat to Russia. And that was really sort of maybe the first wakeup call in the sense that Western leaders got uh who didn't
[6:44]hadn't been following Putin maybe as as much and had given him the benefit of the doubt or perhaps still had glimmers of hope that he would be the a leader to their liking that they could do business with. Well, it was a wakeup call, but
[6:55]you could almost say that given the fact that JD Vance was a US, you know, he was he was the vice president of a supposed ally at least for the past 75 to 80 years of the post-war order, uh his
[7:06]words really really uh came hit hard. They hit a raw nerve really among just about everyone sitting in the audience last year. So that's why, you know, this year everyone, yeah, will have their
[7:17]eyes, I would say, on Marco Rubio. He's flagged in advance uh that he is perhaps not going to be as abrasive. He didn't say it in those words, but he signaled that um you know he's looking he
[7:27]Europeans he said want to know where we all are what our role should be in this in this new era as he called it a defining moment a new era. So perhaps he will be the proverbial uh you know what
[7:39]people call the adult in the room. I guess in an administration where few people say there are adults in the room right now, he is relatively speaking perhaps seen as a voice of more sobriety
[7:49]as the so-called adult in the room. Someone who will come with more sobering words for this conference at a very pivotable at a very pivotal time when the whole relationship, let's be honest, has been unraveling between the US and
[8:00]Europe. The moment of of shock for Europe when we hear the words the new world order, it's almost become an echo now down the the chambers. We've heard this said before. We heard Mark Carney give a big speech speech we saw before
[8:10]Christmas time the the security report laid out by the US. So we saw this pivot and it's I guess the point now is whether as we wait for president macaron to speak whether Europe's kind of met
[8:21]the challenge that was laid down last year so far. I mean it we'll wait and see of course because Europe is like kind of an amorphous concept if you like but um you know just picking up with
[8:33]what Doug said yes Marco Rubio might um strike a slightly different tone he's got way more foreign experience than pretty much anyone else in Trump's
[8:44]cabinet including Trump of course um however he's got an audience of one um like every member of the cabinet he speaks you
[8:54]because he knows that President President Trump is listening and uh it'll be curious to see if he dares to kind of breach any red lines. Well,
[9:05]let's see how things stand tonight. Let's have a listen to President Mron who's addressing the Munich Security Conference. >> The answer cannot be to cave into Russia
[9:15]demands, but to increase pressure on Russia instead. The Europeans will have to agree to any possible deal because they will be an essential part of any
[9:26]security guarantees, any prosperity package, any sanctions relief, any decisions on the European future for Ukraine. No peace without the Europeans.
[9:37]I want to be very clear. >> If you're watching live, you'd have seen what was a 29minut speech by President Mron. If you're watching on repeat or on YouTube or podcast, we've boiled that down to a minute for you. ultimately
[9:49]setting out doing a flip reverse on what happened a year ago with JD Vance at the start setting out what Europe was accused of. He talked about Europe being vilified, sidelined by history, the idea
[9:59]that a society plagued on, he said, by barbaric migrants. Uh this is what the world should be seen in some people's eyes, he said, but that's not the narrative. He wanted to present a counternarrative. He went on to talk
[10:10]about an existential issue for for Europe this very moment saying that whilst there are other extraordinary issues and events in the world now was the time to look at Ukraine to look at
[10:20]European security. He set out how what he wanted to see Europe becoming a big geopolitical power. He said we have to reform it. Doug, listening to to that, what stood out to you?
[10:32]>> Yeah, a few things. uh the first of all the the pro- European uh discourse that that dialogue is something that really has marked uh Macron's two terms uh as president you know you'll remember the
[10:44]the the speech he first gave back in 2017 in Saun um not almost a decade ago before Brexit before COVID before Russ well not before it was before back then
[10:54]Russia's invasion Ukraine 2017 before a lot of geopolitical upheaval um in the world even then he was giving a very firm speech about, you know, Europe and Europe's need to sort of step up to the
[11:06]plate and and not, as he reminded people today, not to uh play itself down. He says, Europeans always prone to to play themselves down, to sort of adopt other people's sort of negative narratives
[11:16]about Europe and and and almost assume them as their own in a masochistic way almost. He didn't use the word masochistic um but saying we have to know our achievements, recognize our strengths. And he repeated again back in
[11:28]April 2024. you might remember um this was already uh a little over two years after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Once again speaking at the Saun he gave a very similar speech and I remember then
[11:38]he was talking at the time he said Europe is mortal and it can die and he said back then it depends on Europe's own choices and he was very clear even on the defense um level back then he
[11:50]says Europe is right now not armed for the risks it faces in a world where the rules are changing fast. So fast forward two years, two more years of Russia's
[12:01]war of aggression against Ukraine. Uh two two years in which Donald well almost a year now in which Donald Trump has returned to the White House and has run rough shot over a lot of the international world order as we heard
[12:12]Frederick Mertz talk about today. And this message now is taking on for Macron at least my takeaway an added urgency. The moment isn't just now, it was
[12:22]yesterday. But he is really trying to hammer it home. If ever there were a time uh for Europeans to take this message aboard, you really heard it in his voice tonight, it's now. >> You did. He was emphatic. And it is
[12:34]worth saying, Viv, as well that the thing that caught my eye tonight is he talked about and he's whispered this before and said it before now evidently we need to directly deal with Russia.
[12:45]Not just during the conflict with Ukraine, but he also talked about afterwards. He said if we reach a settlement on Ukraine, we still have to contend with an aggressive uh Russia. and he talked about basically we should still be part of that discussion. I
[12:56]don't want to negotiation to be organized by someone else. >> Yeah, absolutely. And he you will notice barely mentioned the US until the very last minute.
[13:08]>> But that clearly was a veiled um description of what has been happening with the US opening up these back channel discussions with Putin and leaving Europe out of it. Now is the
[13:19]moment and I I heard the French foreign minister say this just before um about an hour ago saying without security in
[13:29]Ukraine there is no security for Europe. And so Europe and and Mcron's exact words was it's our existential challenge. They see it as an existential
[13:40]threat. It's not like Russia is, you know, it's got this crazy intervention going and uh, you know, the war, terrible war that's now four years old.
[13:51]This is an actual um existential threat to the whole region. And I don't think he has to convince many people in that audience anymore. Whereas a few years ago, as Doug says, he really had some
[14:02]convincing to do. And and and just one one other thing to interject. We're at this moment right now, right, with the war in Ukraine where the talk is now of pressure uh implicit, not so implicit, being brought to bear on Ukraine to hold
[14:13]elections, to hold a referendum on its future. All of this uh uh uh conditions which from Ukraine's point of view are still very favorable to the Kremlin. And and I think this speech, Macron was once
[14:24]again also trying to emphatically drive home the message that Europe cannot it absolutely cannot cave in to Russia's demands. He's looking at the sort of dynamic of what's happening and there
[14:35]seems to be a creep creep movement in that direction and he's perhaps trying to halt that momentum right now before it has a chance to build and say flip the narrative here before you convince yourselves that there is absolutely no
[14:46]geopolitical option but to quote cave in to Russia's demands. Remember Russia is isolated polit uh economically. He says Russia's a lot weaker than meets the eye is essentially his message tonight and
[14:58]that it's been an economic, political, and strategic failure for him this war in Ukraine. But that's not a narrative perhaps that is getting enough emphasis as he sees it uh from the European.
[15:08]>> It's like the diametrically opposite message to what Trump gave Zilinski of course in the Oval Office where he said you don't have any cards to play. Here
[15:18]um Mong is saying you know the world has this totally upside down. >> Yeah. And basically you have to increase the pressure on Russia, drive through
[15:27]sanctions in Europe. And essentially what you heard was Europe's kind of on their own and that's okay. They're
[15:36]powerful enough to be on their own um if they have to be. >> Very good point to which Europe is on his on its own. We heard it, Doug pointed to it. The emphasis, the enthusiasm is there. we get that within
[15:48]the rhetoric to say that we are a club that other countries around he was saying want to join. So this is this should be flip reverse a narrative to say oh Europe's of the past is a moving
[15:58]evolving and yet when you talk about kind of the the dynamics around Europe and how it stays or grows itself. I want to talk about some of the issues for
[16:09]example how they manage security and just go into minutia to to make a point here. He talked about the need to cooperate. I want to talk about something that he kind of touched upon
[16:19]but didn't say specifically which is um basically working with Germany, working with Spain as for the last couple of years on the new generation fighter, a new aircraft that the three would fund.
[16:30]It's been full of problems, hasn't it? The French have been accusing the Germans of stealing some of its copyright. The Germans have been accusing the French of saying that basically your acting is to fund it. You
[16:39]want 80% of your workforce to build this and it seems to be dead and buried. When you get into the minutiae, this is where the problems begin, isn't it?
[16:48]>> Absolutely. And you know, sadly, Macron is speaking as a total lame duck president. We have no idea who comes in
[16:58]one year and 3 months. Um, and it could be an a starkly different message from the one that he's delivering now. And I'm sure the audience is very aware of
[17:08]that. So this is in a sense his last chance to try sort of get Europe together in terms of the fighter jet. Yes, it's been totally full of problems
[17:18]and it's also in some ways encapsulated the problem with Europe that you know he talks about European competitiveness etc. And too often like the
[17:29]competitiveness is internal. It's not like against you know other powers. So um you know that that's been the problem. Mcron identified the problem as
[17:40]Doug says. He identified the problem nine years ago. Um, and it's still the problem. >> Nine years ago worth saying Brexit had happened, but it hadn't technically happened. You're right.
[17:51]>> We get lots of people on the YouTube channel saying, >> "I know Brexit. What about this?" >> Thanks for preempting that push back. >> To Vivian's point as well, this is the economist this week talking about Macron's speech to the newspapers,
[18:02]reflecting what he just did tonight, saying this. Few would dispute dispute Mr. Macron's warning that Europe has been too slow, has been too fragmented. The enthusiasm is there that it's running out of time to fix its problems.
[18:13]So for that matter is he uh well right now as you know Vivian just said he Macron himself is perceived and not just perceived he has a little over a year left in power. He cannot run
[18:25]again. So his ideas as she correctly pointed out could be replaced by a radically different vision. uh you know the the clock is perhaps ticking down on this specific uh prescription right now.
[18:36]Um there's a whole host of issues which I think he's racing against the clock to sort of iron out and and the nuclear issue which we haven't discussed is is another big one right because even though the UK is outside uh right now uh
[18:47]the EU there's a lot of talk and Starmer's talking about it of sort of trying to get closer to a lot of these EU defense initiatives >> they can get into those initiatives it seems but they have to pay their way in >> they would have to pay their way in but
[18:58]remember the UK and France are the nuclear power is here um and this also is going to be something that's at least strategically is going to have to be not just addressed but worked out because uh until now that you know nuclear
[19:09]strategic umbrella is basically they've deferred to the US with that that US strategic umbrella security umbrella how will it work in a Europe where you know there's one clear power with nuclear
[19:19]weapons uh and then a whole host of countries that are now going to have to sort of what rely on that other country to provide a nuclear nuclear umbrella. I think Macron was trying to sort of uh paint this in a very with broad
[19:30]brushstrokes saying that you know in a new geopolitical era. Uh Europe can become a geopolitical power. So sort of
[19:39]that idea once again Europe >> the sum of it much greater Europe than the sum of its parts >> if it can get it act together. >> Let me bring in the other aspect because also there are kind of two two versions
[19:50]of of Europe it seems. one that within the audience we saw the lion that was the strategic autonomy that he was referring to but you also have Mark Russ who says Europe of course it can't go
[20:00]alone without the US there's a slight uh crossover which they don't quite fit and they haven't yet I want to talk about Ukraine though in the meantime because that was what President Mron said we have to talk about Europe security
[20:11]Ukraine security key reporter for the New York Times who's on this program a lot can't stop mood talked to the Russian advance being on the verge now of paying off for Moscow three cities a
[20:22]battlefield assessment report after not seizing a single major urban stronghold for more than a year close to capturing three Holocrosk and Minad. Now that's going to be a
[20:32]focus of the of the speech as to where we go to from here. Um v a thought on on Ukraine because this is going to be clearly in the mind of Zalinski this weekend. The close to the anniversary
[20:44]there seems to be pressure on saying call elections, call a referendum on territory. I mean, we're a week away from the anniversary, and the problem
[20:54]for Ukraine and and for Russia as well is that they've been going back and forth over, you know, one one meter of
[21:03]ground, you know, capturing 1 meter, 2 m, 3 m of of land and going back and forth um for a long time at the cost of
[21:13]at an enormous human cost and economic cost. So the question is for how long can they actually keep this going? Um
[21:24]you know Mron makes a very good point that um Russia is economically kind of bankrupt at this point. Um but that doesn't seem to be much of a
[21:36]deterrence for Putin. Um I I it's it's a very kind of uh confounding situation I think and I I think what Chancellor
[21:47]Mertz said before earlier today the fact that uh you know they that NATO I think his words were something like it would
[21:56]be better if the US was in NATO we'd be you know much better off and he's still talking about you know trying to hang on to NATO etc etc whereas I think Mcron
[22:06]and many other European leaders are sort of beyond that. >> Yes. >> Um, >> an interesting point in the meantime, Doug, I want to go on to the other big issues of of in the world this this
[22:17]week, but on Wednesday, it appears that Russia's been squeezing its tele Telegram app that is the most used app in Russia, used on the battlefield in Ukraine as well. Ostensibly, people
[22:28]having problems. They the Kremlin saying security concerns, content issues that haven't been addressed. is reported as I said to be the key tool for for the military communicate including senior demand uh commanders on the field. Um
[22:40]they've got their own system the Kremlin called Max which the head of telegram says is for surveillance it's for propaganda. What are you making of this this week's development? >> What I'm making of this is is just the culmination of what is an ongoing series
[22:51]of clampdowns on Russians abilities uh to freely navigate the internet um to do and see and say what they want to online. The Kremlin can throw out there whatever pretext it wants. Yes,
[23:03]officially you're right. They say that this is about uh the the failure of the app providers to cooperate with Russian law enforcement authorities on on things like fraud and terrorism on these applications. Uh the fact of the matter
[23:14]is we have been seeing this now for many many months. We saw it with Facebook and Instagram. We saw the slowdown and and the harder to access YouTube uh uh
[23:26]application and and and and platform there. And now we're seeing it with both WhatsApp and Telegram. I I must note both of them being uh uh platforms that have tens of millions in the case of
[23:36]Telegram up to a 100red million users. Even Russian soldiers and military uh were have been speaking out uh in the past, you know, several days about how for them and pro-war bloggers in Russia
[23:46]saying that this is a vital source uh uh platform for communicating among units in in situations where communications not easy at all. Look, the space, the restricting, the clampdown on both civic
[23:58]society and by extension on the internet, which is part of civic society in Russia, has been narrowing and this is not something that came about just overnight. This has been happening for
[24:08]years now under uh Putin's increasingly authoritarian regime. It has to be said in those terms. Um, and they're doing it under the pretext, under the guise of other reasons, law enforcement,
[24:19]security, safety. This is no doubt going to be an issue continually as we get to the anniversary. As Viv said also, President Zalinski saying that there is a framework that the US appear to have set out which they want this done and dusted as in the war and peace uh by
[24:31]summer and it looks like there may be different ways to pressure that. Let's check in with some of the biggest uh stories elsewhere this week particularly the Epstein files. It is exactly two weeks today since the release of 3
[24:41]million pages of Epstein files. We've seen resignations of politicians of public figures exposed by their links over the years to the convicted child sex offender. There are now at least six
[24:51]ongoing criminal inquiries in Europe. Here in France, Jack Long, the former French culture minister, suspected of Laundry, the proceeds of tax fraud based on the correspondence with Jeffrey
[25:01]Epstein. His daughter Caroline also being investigated. They deny wrongdoing. And this Fabric Aiden, a French diplomat, reported to the Parish Prosecutor's Office for alleged sharing of confidential UN documents, acting as
[25:12]a fixer for Epstein. He denies any wrongdoing. In Norway, Norway's former prime minister, Torbjorn Yagland, is under criminal investigation for gross corruption. He's described his contact with Epstein as noncriminal. Norway's
[25:24]ambassador to Jordan, Mona, and a diplomat husband are now being investigated, too, by the country's financial crimes unit, alleged gross corruption. They deny wrongdoing. And so to the UK, Peter Mandlesson, former
[25:35]ambassador to the US, faces a police investigation for alleged misconduct in public office, allegedly passing market centers of government info to Jeffrey Epstein. He denies wrongdoing. And police assessing allegations at Andrew
[25:46]Mountbat and Windsor shared confidential trade documents as well as claim by a woman who was trafficked by Epstein to have had sex with Andrew at his residence in Royal Lodge which is separate to the sex abuse allegations
[25:57]made by Virginia Jafrey where a settlement was reached which included a non-mission of guilt in 2022. He denies any wrongdoing. Well, at the start of this week, 10 a.m. Monday morning, the
[26:08]world waited to see what Gileain Maxwell would say in her deposition in the US Congress as part of its ongoing investigation, dialing in on a video link from prison in Texas.
[26:18]>> I would like to answer your question, but on the advice of council, I respectfully decline to answer this question and any related questions.
[26:29]My habius petition is pending in the southern district of New York. I therefore invoke my right to silence under the fifth amendment to the US Constitution.
[26:40]>> So Gain Maxwell, the only person currently behind bars for any crimes associated with Epstein, central to his trafficking ring of girls as young as 14. The next day, so-called Virginia's law was unveiled at a press conference with the Democrat leader of the Senate,
[26:52]Chuck Schumer, along with multiple victims of Epstein, including Virginia for his brother, Sky. The idea behind Virginia's law is to eliminate the statute of limitations allowing victims to seek justice without time
[27:03]restrictions. Viv, we start with you. Two weeks on from the release, calls for greater transparency, calls for greater accountability are still growing.
[27:12]>> You know, it's been years since Jeffrey Epstein died and really for years the focus has been on the victims of sexual
[27:23]trafficking and sexual abuse, which as it should be. But there's another big story here and that is just the entire
[27:32]web and network of extremely powerful rich men who felt like they had total impunity and never thought that they
[27:42]would that anything would happen to them and in fact as you pointed out none of them have been convicted of anything. So, and that goes up to, you know, the
[27:52]very highest levels of US politics, European politics, royalty, um, business, I mean, just every facet
[28:02]of very interconnected ultra elite circles. And I think it's been very eye opening for people or maybe it's been confirming for people
[28:13]that they always felt like this is kind of the way the world works. And on royalty Doug Andrew Mbasson wins us saying that previously remember that he would help US investigations in any way
[28:23]he could. Uh fair to say it's deafening his silence this week >> is his silence is deafening. He is the one who has been clearly linked these allegations to actual sexual uh
[28:34]misdemeanors with relation to Epstein. There are a lot of names Epstein's associates who they haven't been able to come up with the hard evidence of any sexual misconduct. uh it's just the association through emails, through
[28:46]correspondence, through financial transactions. But in the case, yeah, of the former prince because remember this is a man who's been divested of his honors, his uh his royal honors, his
[28:56]princely title uh last year by the king. Um and also let's not forget he was forced he was booted out of his taxpayer funded uh royal mansion. Uh so he has lost quite a lot and he's he's one of
[29:08]the it's not just egg on his face. I mean it is a major major embarrassment for the royal family. You can argue okay well they have been moving at least to strip him of his titles. That might have
[29:18]been a little too little too late. Uh the queen is now you know uh dead for several years now. Uh you know and as more and more of these revelations uh emerge you can only imagine what she might have been thinking about this. Um
[29:30]but absolutely I mean the the nexus between wealth and power right up to the royal royal family, princes, ambassadors, top politicians, senior diplomats, uh the list goes on and on
[29:40]and on and you start to you start to wonder the case of the royal family and the case of others. Uh what is it about accountability where the Brits who are hardly angels on the moral front seem to have something? Is it the parliamentary
[29:52]democracy? Who knows? seem to have more of the accountability thing and the reckoning than you're seeing right now in the United States at least as of this hour. >> When we talk about reckoning, notable
[30:02]Kia Star seems to have narrowly survived in the House of Commons this week. Seems a lot like the House of Cards if if you remember that. Um, in terms of political drama and intrigue and corruption and
[30:13]allegations denied by Peter Mandlesson, who's the center of this, a former US ambassador for for the UK. I just wonder for your sense of the politics in the
[30:23]UK, Vivian. Interesting. Another face from the past has come forward this week, Gordon Brown, saying there needs to be an investigation into exactly who flew to and from the UK on these Epstein flights. There are logs and why haven't
[30:34]they been looked at before. >> This reminds me a little bit of the CO scandal in the UK um where eventually there were parliamentary hearings and in
[30:44]fact did cost a prime minister his job. I I don't see this going the same way. I mean, I'm the uh super expert on British
[30:53]politics, but it seems like Krista is a little bit more removed from this particular scandal. He's lost his chief of staff. He's lost his ambassador to
[31:04]Washington who should never have been appointed in the first place. Um and um he might survive this, although he's deeply unpopular for other reasons. >> Yes, it's about the rut, isn't it? What
[31:15]else is going on in the past? something else could knock him. But there are questions about who else could replace him. There doesn't seem to be anyone else striking right now. Question was judgment for him. Why did you appoint him in the first place? What did you know? He said, quote, I didn't know the
[31:26]depths and the darkness of the situation back then. He continues, for now, Doug, I also >> He never met Epstein, by the way. Kira Starmer, it's it's not now.
[31:37]>> It is there is an irony here, right? You know, I was talking about the accountability factor. In Britain, you're tainted by association with someone who did have dealings with Epstein. Whereas in the US, you have a lot of people who directly corresponded
[31:48]and flew on his flights and went to his island. And they're not facing the same reckoning as a man who never actually >> the commerce secretary of the US. >> Yeah. Howard Lutnick, uh Elon Musk, excuse me, in in in the files and the
[31:59]allegations, obviously vehement denials that he ever did anything uh you know, any misconduct there. Um the list goes on and on uh in the US and and like I said so far >> reckoning we saw this week Caroline
[32:10]Levit the press spokesperson for the white house kind of shut down the question howard lutnik leave didn't take any other questions on it saying that he is innocent he is trusted by President Trump and to President Trump it is worth
[32:21]saying because we heard his push back saying that you know this exonerates me it's also worth putting context in here Doug isn't it and you'll know as well as anybody else President Trump his
[32:32]friendship with Epstein goes back to the8s and 90s. This whole data release of millions of of emails is the early 2000s onwards. I think 2003 to 20 2019
[32:43]and that's at a time that they weren't getting on. Yeah, there that that's absolutely true. Look, there's been no evidence. It it needs to be said uh in all fairness, there has been no evidence
[32:54]uh directly linking Trump to any sexual misconduct due to his relationship with Epstein. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Does that mean something might not come out? There's still hundreds of thousands if not millions of documents
[33:05]which have not been released. But to this date, it does bear repeating. But you can still you can still fault to Donald Trump uh for not being initially
[33:15]remember it's been 7 years since Epstein uh you know died committed suicide in prison. uh the Department of Justice under his watch uh no matter how he
[33:25]wants to portray it, dragged its feet, dragged its feet in the release of these files and only did so under absolute duress when the Congress and his own Republican party was forced actually to
[33:36]to vote for it in the form of a federal law mandating their their release, the Epsile Files Transparency Act. Um, Donald Trump, you know, casting himself as, like you said, irreroachable, but
[33:48]not too deep a dive will suggest that he could have said and done a lot more a lot earlier. Uh, and that he perhaps knew a lot more than he is letting on, his party is letting on about other
[33:59]people's ties to to Epstein. >> And there are so many areas of this story, it goes so far globally that we're still very much in the weeds, I think, aren't we, of where this is heading. and the documents still being
[34:10]deciphered what we have so far. Okay, let's move to another big event this week, the Winter Olympics. Two notable controversies, moments emerging from Milan Cortina this week. The first involves a Ukrainian athlete in the
[34:22]skeleton event. Vladislav Heriskovich and his custommade helmet here featuring portraits of 24 athletes and coaches killed since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The International Olympic Committee saying it violated the rules
[34:33]that ban political messaging or propaganda on competition equipment. As a compromise, they offered the alternative, wearing a black ombat. Vladislav wouldn't change it. He said it was about remembrance and tribute. And
[34:44]so, just due to race on the day, Thursday, he was disqualified. The new IOC chief, Kirsty Coventry, was emotional, clearly affected by it. We saw her tearary, but she stood by it.
[34:55]Viven, uh, Kirsty Coventry is a former gold medalist swimmer. She said, "I was talking to him athlete to athlete when she was trying to explain. Did she make the right call?" >> I don't think so.
[35:07]I think that generally speaking, the world would not really see this as propaganda. Um, here's an athlete who's likely somewhat traumatized by what's happened
[35:18]for four years. Many of his colleagues, I'm sure, are on the front lines. Um, and I think that this was kind of a
[35:28]really dignified sort of tribute. Um, I don't think I understand that rules are rules, but I don't think she made the right call. >> Doug, there's it's been notable that the
[35:39]Ukrainian team have asked, you know, for it to be overturned. It didn't go their way, but there hasn't been a large wave of global sports stars campaigning for him. Is there a tacid acceptance that
[35:49]that was the call? There's yeah there's a sort of this bakedin sort of acceptance that you know whether you agree with it or not that yeah you're not supposed to manifest any overt political views or protests on behalf of
[36:01]domestic conflicts in your country and everything but as Vivian said I mean you know it's who you who are they fooling here you know the world would probably have have have not had you know an
[36:12]outcry there would not have been an outcry if they had let him to to compete now the one of the questions you may ask is did he know himself himself. Was he fully aware of the fact that, you know,
[36:22]if he wore this helmet and and and he manifested obviously a political position for his country and his his fellow brethren fighting on the front lines that he would not be able to race that he not did he actually go into this
[36:33]thinking that he would be able to still compete and was, you know, shocked and and and surprised? I don't think so. I think that he understood he made a decision knowing that the Olympic Committee could very well and probably
[36:45]was likely to uh rule against him. But obviously, and that's a debate for another day, obviously, whether the Olympic rules are now outdated or hypocritical or or whatever, overdone. >> I mean, it does make you kind of wonder
[36:57]what's going to happen with the World Cup in the US this year. I mean, it it certainly will not be devoid of political messaging. >> Um, and it reminds me a little bit of
[37:07]the Formula 1 racers who, you know, wore uh rainbow helmets in the Le Yeah. to um to protest >> in the Black Lives Matter movement,
[37:18]>> different sports, different >> so you know to try like disentangle sports from politics kind of a losing proposition >> or perhaps he also made a very global
[37:29]message of tribute as well in the fact that he's gone everywhere is a controversy. The other issue on the uh Olympics is the confessions of an Olympic love cheat. This is Norwegian
[37:40]bathlete uh the Sterome Lagrat who won bronze this week then went viral immediately afterwards. He told the world he'd gone behind his girlfriend's now ex-girlfriend's back with another woman that he was sorry he wanted her
[37:51]back. This is what he told the world's press. >> Today I made the choice to tell the world what I did. So maybe maybe there's
[38:02]a chance that she will show uh see what she really means to me. Um, and maybe not, but uh I would don't want to think
[38:13]I didn't try everything uh to get her back. >> Nothing like a bit of Valentine's uh romance. And that was nothing like a bit of Valentine's romance. Well, according to his ex-girlfriend, who spoke
[38:24]anonymously to Norwegian TV NBC, she said, quote, "Even after a declaration of love in front of the whole world, it's hard to forgive. I did not choose to be put into this position, and it hurts to have to be in it." Vivian.
[38:36]Well, what a position to put her in. Uh, gold for grling. Does he get a medal for trying? >> Yeah, I would say so. I mean, to like,
[38:46]you know, go under the spotlight. >> I would say she should forgive him. I mean, you know, that's kind of quite a declaration of love um in front of the whole world. But, uh, I guess it was
[38:58]pretty, but a >> give him a chance, Doug. Let me put this to you. It was very look it it it was very I think a lot of people watching that can sort of relate to it and a lot of people might be thinking I might have had the same reflex right because you
[39:10]know it's very human right it was an extremely visceral human emotional reaction and yes you know a clearerheaded him afterwards at press conference said you know I was there in the heat of an interview right after I I
[39:21]won and I guess you know perhaps my emotions got to me and perhaps it was misjudged and I I shouldn't have said it but I think that in the heat of the moment it's hard to it's hard to fault him he was it literally speaking from
[39:33]the heart, you know. Um, so I yeah, it's it's I I don't want to overanalyze it or deep do too deep a dive on it. It was basically human emotions of some of the
[39:43]most, you know, deepest, most visceral kinds just being laid out there. Like you said, it happened to be at the Olympics international event. And yeah, he dragged her into it, but it it was quite uh like you said, a gold medal
[39:54]gravel if you want. You know, >> Norway's eight-time Olympic bathlon champion, Viv Ola Bjondal, said the confession has overshadowed whole team's
[40:05]overall achievements. >> That seems a little strange. Um, and hard to believe. I I don't know what you think. Uh, over the achievements. It's
[40:16]uh I don't know. Uh, you know, maybe in the media. >> We're not talking about the achievements of the Norway team, are we? >> In the locker room. There's a lot of celebrating going on. >> Okay. So, we think it was refreshing
[40:28]honesty. There have been a number of comments suggesting it was red flags all over it. But, uh, yeah. Okay. Different people, different positions. And it is worth saying that uh his ex-girlfriend
[40:38]has asked for continued anonymity and she will deal with things she said in private. Okay. So thank you to the panel tonight both of you uh their take on
[40:47]this week and readapting to the live President Mron press conference. Thank you Vivian Walt of Time magazine and also uh Doug Herbert intel affairs commentator in the words that could have
[40:58]been spoken this week in the wake of the Epstein files but are in fact Emily Bronty's in Weathering Heights. quote, "Honest people do not hide their deeds." And it's the highly anticipated release of this Valentine's weekend of a new
[41:10]film version that's been plastered all over the billboards here in Paris. Though despite the combination of Margot Robbie and Jacob Alli playing Kathy and Heathcliffe, Withering Heights has been met with withering lows. Whimperingly tame, said The Independent. The Guardian
[41:21]says Bronty would roll in her grave. Pre-sales, however, are reportedly on fire. So judge for yourself. We'll leave you with a clip. Thank you for watching. You don't have to be with us always or take any form. Just be here in seven
[41:32]days for the world next week. >> Whatever our souls are made of, >> is mine not the same?
[41:44]>> I will not stand for that feat. I will not have you near.