[0:00]The Department of Justice published over three million documents related to deceased sex offender Jeffrey Epstein at the end of January. This comes over a month past the deadline the Epstein Files Transparency Act gave the DOJ to
[0:11]release all of their documents related to the disgraced financeier. Included in the latest batch of documents are emails that give a glimpse into Epstein's relationships with the rich and powerful as well as materials related to the
[0:23]government's criminal investigations into Epstein and his associate convicted sex offender Galain Maxwell. Barry Lavine, author of The Spider: Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gain
[0:34]Maxwell, joins Forb's true crime to discuss what he's learned from the latest batch of documents. Hi everybody, I'm Britney Lewis, the
[0:45]host of Forbes True Crime. Joining me once again is Barry Lavine, who has been covering Jeffrey Epstein for years. He's also the author of The Spider, a book that investigates Epstein's criminal network. Barry, thank you so much for
[0:57]joining me. Thank you as always, Britney. Uh, always happy to speak to you. >> On Friday, the Department of Justice released over three million more documents related to convicted sex
[1:08]offender and disgraced financeier Jeffrey Epstein. From everything you've been able to see so far, the thousands of documents and emails and reports and photos and videos, what are some of your
[1:18]takeaways? Well, I've certainly been going through the documents as best as I can um non-stop with a couple hours of sleep.
[1:29]Uh and there's just so much material obviously to get to. I think that um you know way back when in the summer I wrote
[1:38]an op-ed piece for the New York Times um raising uh nine different questions of things I'd like to see in those
[1:46]files. And while I am finally seeing some of these things, I still have so many questions that remain even from the
[1:57]material that's been released. You know, and I'll just jump around here. For instance, I I located Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy report because there's still a
[2:07]great many people who think that Jeffrey Epstein didn't take his life and may have been murdered behind bars. And while the autopsy report was included in
[2:19]full um from the medical perspective of Dr. Kristen Roman from the New York Medical Examiner's Office who conducted the autopsy. The biggest question I had
[2:30]has not been answered, which was was there any DNA testing done on the liature that was wrapped around his neck
[2:39]to determine if there were anybody else who was holding that at the time when he was hanged. and and certainly DNA
[2:50]testing on that um bed sheet that he used would help tell us if someone else was involved in his death. And as best
[3:00]as I could find, there hasn't been any DNA testing done on that. So that's very frustrating to hear because I don't think without um real DNA
[3:12]testing, we'll know if there was anyone else involved in his death. So, you know, I came away from that uh kind of
[3:21]upset in the sense that the documents could have shown more. Now, the other big factor that I have been looking into
[3:32]um really from the beginning of this investigation and Jeffrey Epstein in the years even before I started my book, were the other individuals involved in
[3:41]the sex trafficking? And I was really hoping that these files would finally answer some of these questions. Now, for
[3:51]background, I I just want to briefly uh say that um Virginia Chu Fry, who who since uh took her life this past year,
[4:01]who was the most vocal accuser of Jeffrey Epstein and Colleen Maxwell, uh she of course had um named several
[4:11]men in court depositions and court papers and interviews. of course most famously was Prince Andrew uh who has
[4:20]subsequently lost his uh title uh in England uh in terms of uh being a royal there uh and has really you know faced
[4:31]uh uh unbelievable outrage uh across the world as to his alleged actions uh involving
[4:41]Virginia. Uh she of course also named um prominent uh billionaires who were connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Uh she
[4:51]named some politicians, a governor, uh a senator, um someone from the entertainment television industry. So we had a list of
[5:02]about a dozen names from Virginia. And what really um what I really found most interesting this past summer when we were attempting to get the files
[5:14]released and the survivors were holding rallies and uh Representative Thomas Massie and and Ro Kahana were spearheading the transparency act to get
[5:24]that passed. [clears throat] Excuse me. is that Thomas Massie had outlined the fact that
[5:32]he had come across um 20 uh names of men. Uh and and I will just uh quote him as saying that
[5:43]these were men who according to FBI 302 witness reports uh these were the 20 alleged men who took part in Epstein sex trafficking.
[5:55]Now, while he didn't name them, I do believe that some of those men were on Virginia Dupre's list. He described them as one Hollywood producer worth a few
[6:06]hundred million dollars, one royal prince, which I think we can assume was Prince Andrew, one high-profile government official, one high-profile
[6:15]former politician, one owner of a car company in Italy, one rock star, one magician, at least six billionaires,
[6:24]including a billionaire from Canada. So, this was really uh kind of bombshell news from uh Representative Thomas Massie when he
[6:35]read through that list. Now, of course, I immediately began searching through the files to see if I could find those
[6:45]FBI 302 witness reports. And while there are some of those reports, they are um the majority of them are completely
[6:56]redacted. I mean, entire pages that are blacked out where you don't see anything. And that's extremely frustrating. Now, in further digging and
[7:06]also digging that took part by the New York Times over the past few days, we have found uh two key documents that
[7:16]reference third parties. One of them is a 21page slide presentation that the Justice Department compiled
[7:27]um into their investigation in Epstein which included allegations of sexual misconduct against numerous powerful men.
[7:37]Uh now of course uh while none of these men have been have been charged, the men included President Trump. The FBI also
[7:47]compiled a summary of accusations against Trump. Uh the billionaire financeier here in New York, Leon Black, who we know had a long association with
[7:58]Jeffrey Epstein. Uh of course, the former Prince Andrew, now Andrew, now Batten Windsor. The slide presentation did not say that the Justice Department
[8:09]had verified any of these claims. The cover page included the logo of the FBI's Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task Force. And the presentation also listed other prominent
[8:20]men who witnesses say were involved in sexual activity, though not necessarily misconduct. Now, in that category, that included
[8:31]former President Bill Clinton and Lesie Wexner. Lesie Wexner, of course, was the CEO of the Limited Company. He was
[8:39]Jeffrey Epstein's um initial um main benefactor. Jeffrey Epstein had power of attorney uh for Leslie Wexner uh for for
[8:49]many years up until uh Jeffrey Epstein's uh uh arrest in Florida and the nonprosecution agreement in 2007. Uh Leslie Wexner subsequently said that
[9:00]Jeffrey Epstein had um u stolen millions and millions of dollars from him and of course denied any wrongdoing as part of any sex trafficking.
[9:11]Now, that slide um there's a pro there's a slide in that presentation that is in the new FBI files and it and the slide is titled prominent names and it briefly
[9:22]summarizes accusations against President Trump, Harvey Weinstein, um New York finance Glenn Dubin, Prince
[9:31]Andrew, uh Jess Staley, uh Jess Staley was the key banker at JP Morgan Chase, who really was Jeffrey Epstein's point
[9:40]person for many years. Uh, in addition to Jess Staley, you have Leon Black, Leslie Wexner, Alan Dersuitz, the lawyer who Jeffrey Epstein used for his
[9:51]nonprosecution agreement, Bill Clinton, um Howard Lutnik, of course, the uh commerce secretary in Trump's administration and uh also names William
[10:02]Bar and Leon Black. Uh now, again, these are summary accusations against these individuals. uh there's no uh specific
[10:14]charges uh from any of these men and uh the FBI of course has pointed out that uh uh uh majority of these claims are
[10:25]unverified and haven't been cooperated. Now the other main piece of evidence that we found that really discusses
[10:34]any third parties who are involved in the sex trafficking is a very detailed 86page prosecution memorandum.
[10:46]And this is uh over the 86 pages. There's many pages that you can clearly read through from front uh from the beginning to end, but
[10:56]there's many additional pages that are heavily redacted. And at the end, there's almost a dozen pages that are fully redacted.
[11:06]um to my frustrations in terms of really understanding what they have here. Um it's important to note that this memo was drawn up four months after Jeffrey
[11:17]Epstein's death in 2019. It was compiled for the US attorney Jeffrey Berman at the time to quote analyze the extent to
[11:27]which certain of Epstein's associates and employees may or may not be criminally liable for their conduct during uh their employment with Epstein.
[11:37]Now, as we know, the only individual besides Jeffrey Epstein that was charged, of course, was Glain Maxwell, who was successfully prosecuted by the
[11:47]DOJ. and now is behind bars serving 20 years for sex trafficking.
[11:54]A prominent name in this document is uh Jeffrey Epste's longtime assistant and scheduler Leslie Grath. Now, she's an
[12:05]important individual because she was one of the four women uh who were who was given immunity at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's 2007 nonpro prosecution
[12:16]agreement. The other three women, Nadia Marinino Kova, Adriana Ross, and Sarah Kellen were all schedulers. These were four women who worked under Elaine
[12:26]Maxwell who scheduled um the girls, scheduled the massages and really just kind of took took care of of all the uh
[12:38]ordering things as mundane as ordering food being delivered to the uh Palm Beach House and and doing all different types of tasks for Jeffrey Epstein and
[12:48]Golain Maxwell. Now, to me, the most important elements of this memo are the men that were named
[12:56]that the at least at this point in 2009, the DOJ was taking a serious look at. And the names in this memo are John Luke
[13:06]Bernell, who was of course the uh French modeling agent, who as as we know from my own investigation, from uh survivors
[13:17]uh and from uh uh police investigations, he sent uh I wouldn't say dozen, I would
[13:26]say hundreds of girls overseas from Eastern Europe and other places to Jeffrey Epste. He was a a
[13:37]maybe the key international facilitator of girls, underage girls, minors who
[13:44]took part in the sex trafficking. And so his name as part of this is absolutely makes sense. Now, he was charged
[13:56]separately from the Epstein case on rape charges in Paris, France. And he um it's believed that he took his life similar
[14:05]to Jeffrey Epstein behind bars in Paris, France. Interestingly, his death followed um closely Jeffrey Epstein's
[14:15]death behind bars. So, he of course is no longer with us. The other names in this document of course focus on Leon
[14:23]Black, Jess Staley, the uh the banker, Lesie Wexner, and Harvey Weinstein. And um uh
[14:35]as I say, there's no indication in the memo of the specific investigative efforts by the DOJ to cooperate witnesses or evidence. So, that's kind
[14:46]of where the files have left us and and they've left me now with even more questions that I have
[14:55]than I initially had last summer because we've opened up a Pandora's box here. and they have and the DOJ has teased us with information about these key
[15:07]individuals in Jeffrey Epstein's web, but they haven't specifically detailed the investigative efforts they made to
[15:16]either include these men or discount them as part of the sex trafficking. So, that's kind of where we are. Britney, >> I mean, thank you a so much for breaking
[15:27]that down, but B, I was going to ask you if this left you with more questions than answers, right? Because, as you said, a lot of people are named, a lot of allegations thrown out there, a lot
[15:37]of unverified allegations. The FBI says, "Hey, we can't corroborate this." So, I know you've had questions since 2020 of how the sex trafficking enterprise
[15:47]operated and who was involved. So now when we sit here, we're three more million documents deep here. How much did all of these documents, did
[15:57]everything we learn move the ball when it comes to this story of how much more do we know about how this sex trafficking ring operated? Or are you saying, you know, it makes it even
[16:06]bigger but with more questions? >> I think it makes it even bigger with more questions. I think the survivors who ultimately are the ones who deserve
[16:18]accountability in this unbelievable case of a uh a predator who just involved
[16:28]the biggest uh the most some of the most powerful men across the world who he dragged in. uh they're still scratching their heads
[16:39]in terms of really getting the answers they want and um uh you know I I feel so bad for the survivors because I don't
[16:50]know if we're ever going to get any real accountability um from this. I I mean it maybe in a future administration, a future
[17:00]administration may release the remaining two million documents that are apparently still being held under
[17:07]privilege according to uh uh Todd Blanch um uh the assistant attorney general. Um,
[17:17]and maybe in those two two million pages of documents are the answers that we have been looking for in terms of really
[17:26]understanding what the FBI did to investigate the men that not only
[17:34]Virginia Gupy, but that other um victims uh had um uh said they were sex trafficked to. in terms of these
[17:46]important powerful individuals. So, you know, it's it's extremely frustrating. I mean, the files I think um further along
[17:57]the understanding of um how Jeffrey Epstein operated in terms of the uh sexual abuse of these victims. It goes
[18:08]into horrific new details. um just uh u stomach turning details related to the
[18:19]um abuse of these uh uh victims, not only sexually but in some cases psychologically.
[18:27]Um, there was one victim uh that I uh uh read about in the files that Jeffrey Epstein um
[18:39]psychologically tortured her about her weight, that she wasn't thin enough and was always calling her out um calling
[18:47]her names and uh some of the stuff that that you read particularly as a father of a daughter.
[18:57]It is excruciating to read these accounts, even more accounts now than we had in the past of the very specific
[19:08]details of the sexual abuse, uh the rapes, um and uh uh just the way he operated. I
[19:18]mean, I I had written in my book that um he had waved a gun at one of the victims on his island in the Virgin Islands. And
[19:29]um the documents show that uh Jeffrey Epstein um at least according to one witness uh uh
[19:40]an employee uh had a gun um under the mattress um while he was uh uh raping some of these
[19:50]victims. Now you have to ask yourself what was the purpose of the gun? What what was he going to um use this gun in some way? uh you know it's unclear but
[20:00]this is a man who you know when you when you read through these files that have been released was just a monster. He was a monster but at
[20:11]the same time he was able to compartmentalize the sexual abuse of these girls. And in
[20:21]and the next hour he was on the phone to some of the most important men across the world, politicians, financial
[20:31]leaders, uh of of of of big banks, people in the entertainment community. It's it's unbelievable
[20:42]the and and we even now learn have learned so many new stories about men uh who I find most appalling who who
[20:52]curried up to Jeffrey Epstein after the 2007 um arrest and um uh Jeffrey Epstein's
[21:03]conviction for um prostitution of a minor in the years after he associated with so many uh well-known individuals
[21:13]who wanted to come to his parties. You take Elon Musk, one of the um wealthiest men in in the
[21:23]world, who emailed Jeffrey Epstein saying, "Please invite us to your wildest party." Okay. Then of course you
[21:33]had um Howard Lutnik who was Donald Trump's commerce secretary. This man was a neighbor in New York uh of Jeffrey
[21:43]Epstein. He lived um next door to Jeffrey Epstein on the Upper East Side.
[21:48]Uh he he famously said that uh years ago um Jeffrey Epstein invited him into his
[21:57]home and he was taken into the massage room. he saw the massage table and he left the house saying, "This guy's strange. I I don't want to
[22:09]have anything to do with him." And these new documents point out that um in the years after Jeffrey Epstein's arrest, in the years well after he said he didn't want to associate with him,
[22:21]that he was emailing Jeffrey Epstein to ask him if he could bring his wife and family to his island in the Virgin Islands. um be because they were um on a
[22:32]holiday. I mean, this man was thinking in some way that this was like going to Disneyland or something. I mean, this is
[22:40]the island where hundreds of girls were sexually abused. So, you know, it it's
[22:49]mindboggling why these men, smart, powerful individuals would want to associate themselves with
[22:59]Jeffrey Epstein. The same can be said about um Richard Branson
[23:05]um the uh Virgin uh CEO. Uh there's many uh uh
[23:15]I would say embarrassing um uh emails between the two. Um none of the men I've named um have been accused of taking
[23:25]part in any sex of the sex trafficking, but you have to wonder why so many of these rich and powerful men wanted to associate with it.
[23:35]>> It was shocking, right? because it wasn't some big secret as to who Jeffrey Epstein was. He was a convicted sex offender since 2008. He pleaded guilty
[23:45]to a sex crime against a minor. Yet, you see all of this correspondence, these emails with a ton of rich, powerful, famous people? I mean, it was almost
[23:55]like, who wasn't named in these documents, right? And obviously, if you were named in the Epstein Files document dump, you're not obviously accused of a crime. That doesn't just mean you're
[24:07]there's allegations against you here, but do you think people who had this relationship with Epstein, they have something to answer for now? And what have you learned about his relationships with the rich and powerful in these new
[24:18]documents? Well, certainly there's a lot of men who who who are now going through damage control uh because
[24:29]certainly their involvement in these emails um have raised questions about their character um and uh
[24:40]you know we you know we've already had um the uh powerful uh England um politician
[24:51]Mandelen uh who's had to um resign his post because Jeffrey Epstein um uh sent
[25:01]uh thousands of dollars uh to his uh to his partner uh some years back uh as some type of a gift. Um
[25:13]there's an international politician who also had to resign his post in in Serbia. I mean the this web extends all all over the world. Um one of the people
[25:23]I find most fascinating in this is uh Kathy uh uh Romela who was President
[25:33]Obama's um legal counsel um in the White House and is now the top lawyer for um Goldman Sachs here in New York. and
[25:43]these emails and we began seeing some of these emails in the previous document dump. Now we've seen even more emails. She was acting now while she said that
[25:54]she did some legal services for Jeffrey Epstein. These emails show a very very chummy um relationship between the two. Jeffrey
[26:06]Epstein, excuse me, sending her expensive designer uh bags as as gifts.
[26:15]Um and and her thanking him, you know, profusely for these gifts. Uh she was also uh Jeffrey Epstein emailed her for
[26:27]damage control when when different stories were coming out or or different ways of how to handle um uh comments related to u accusations
[26:38]made against him. There's a particular email in the new batch of documents that caught my eye that uh and this is a a case well-known case in the Epstein
[26:49]circles at the time of um Donald Trump's uh first uh presidential campaign in 2016.
[26:58]a woman came forward in California um under the alias of Katie Johnson who made uh accusations in a lawsuit against
[27:09]Donald Trump and uh Jeffrey Epstein uh saying that she had been a 13-year-old and had been um sexually assaulted by by
[27:19]both men at the time. Of course, the Trump campaign uh vehemently denied the accusations and there's been questions
[27:28]over the years um whether um these lawsuits of course were withdrawn. Uh she was under death threats, her attorney said at the time and has not
[27:39]surfaced since then. And there's been questions over this over if there was any credibility to these allegations or was it just uh political hijab on Donald
[27:50]Trump at the time. But when these uh when this lawsuit surfaced, Jeffrey Epstein reached out according to an email in the documents that I read to Kathy
[28:01]um basically saying um this girl's making accusations against Donald and myself. you know, how should I handle
[28:09]this? It it shows the attention that Epstein took when there were when he his name was surfaced um in connection with
[28:21]with Donald Trump's name. So, you know, all of this is extremely, you know, fascinating to understand and to see
[28:31]what was going on behind the scenes with Jeffrey Epstein and who he was reaching out to and what he was saying, not only about Trump, but about, you know, many
[28:41]others in the government. >> You told me last year that you believed Jeffrey Epstein would haunt President Trump from his grave. And according to the documents released on the 30th, the
[28:52]FBI received unverified tips alleging sexual assault against President Trump. But the FBI did note in their emails that the tips were secondhand, a lot of them, and there was no way to corroborate them. President Trump has
[29:04]always denied any wrongdoing here. And I want to read what the DOJ said in a statement uh they released with this document dump. Some of the documents contain untrue and sensationalist claims against President Trump that were
[29:15]submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election. To be clear, the claims are unfounded and false, and if they have a shred of credibility, they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already. There
[29:27]are thousands of Trumprelated references in the latest batch of the Epstein documents. Did you learn anything new about the relationship between Epste and Trump? Well, I think there was some
[29:39]significant details that came in the document dump around the uh right be right around the time of the holidays before this massive document dump and
[29:51]and that had to do with two things that was that really stood out to me. One was and we really learned this for the first time. Now, we know, of course, people who have followed the story know that
[30:03]Virginia Duprey, the um main accuser of Prince Andrew and and the others had worked at Mara Lago as a as a spa
[30:12]attendant. And she was recruited at Mara Lago spa by Gileain Maxwell. Gileain Maxwell said she was representing Jeffrey
[30:22]Epstein. Uh at the time, Virginia was 17 years old. she was offered a uh a job to do uh personal massages with Jeffrey
[30:33]Epstein and that led to um the you know sexual slavery that uh
[30:43]Virginia said took place at the hands of uh Jeffrey Epstein and and Ela Maxwell that she was uh in her words lent out to
[30:54]uh numerous numerous men. And I I mentioned some of the names early on in our interview here. Um but that gave us that we knew of course was an
[31:05]association with Trump and Mara Lago. And Trump has said in months past that u he uh cut off ties with Jeffrey Epstein. One of the reasons being that Jeffrey
[31:15]Epstein was stealing employees uh from him. But of course um that can certainly uh uh include Virginia Greg. What we
[31:27]didn't know until the previous document dump was that Donald Trump's maron to a spa was actually sending
[31:36]um women over to Jeffrey Epstein's home uh to conduct um massages uh privately for Jeffrey Epstein. And
[31:46]this this is quite shocking. And um we know from the previous document dump that um
[31:54]uh uh that one girl uh had said uh uh had told her family that and it got back to Mara Lago that that Jeffrey Epstein
[32:04]had made sexual advances against her. Um, and we've never really received a full explanation as to, you know, in the timeline when that
[32:16]occurred, what did, you know, why didn't why didn't the officials at the Marago Spa alert the police to that incident, why it was covered up, how much of that information
[32:27]um got back to uh Trump at the time. Uh so that that's relatively eyeopening that that that Mara Lago uh was was
[32:37]sending women um and in many cases uh there's an indication that one girl was a minor uh from what I read in the
[32:46]documents uh who was sent there. Um the other thing that was uh troubling to me from the previous document dump was that the fact that Donald Trump had said he
[32:57]never um took any flights on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. And the previous document um showed that in fact he he did take flights on Jeffrey Epstein's
[33:07]plane. And as the DOJ said um in the report that um at least one of the um girls on this particular flight with
[33:19]Donald Trump was a victim who was a possible witness for the Glen Maxwell trial. So that placed Donald Trump on the
[33:30]private plane with one of Jeffrey Epstein's victims. And you have to wonder when this was taking place, what did Donald Trump think of this woman?
[33:41]What did he think the circumstances were uh in terms of why she was traveling with Jeffrey Epstein at the time? Did they interact? Did did he have
[33:50]a conversation with her? It goes to the heart of a question that I've had related to this entire story and that is
[34:01]why so many of these smart, wealthy, powerful men uh
[34:11]didn't question why Jeffrey Epstein was surrounding himself with these young girls and raise it to the point of, you know, should any of this be reported?
[34:23]Um I I wonder about that. And that same document dump, we we had photos of former President Clinton swimming in a pool
[34:34]uh with a u young woman who has been identified as a Epstein victim.
[34:43]Uh now again the same question goes to former President Trump that I'm asking of of Donald Trump and that is at the
[34:53]time you're in this situation. What what was your sense of thinking who this person is? Why they were why they had access to
[35:02]this situation? Did they interact in terms of did he ask her who she was? What she was doing? Was there any indication that this uh girl was in any type of distress?
[35:14]I'm most troubled by these men who have not been accused specifically of sexual wrongdoing. But you know, Donald Trump said years later,
[35:26]I broke things off with him when I when I learned this about him. The fact that he tried to pick up a
[35:35]young daughter of one of his Mara Lago members and Trump cut off ties with Jeffrey Epstein. But going back years, why didn't these these powerful
[35:46]individuals question what was going on? you know, you you have to uh uh
[35:57]there's a quote, not in my book, but in another Epstein book, and and uh Donald Trump said uh you know, he once was at Jeffrey Epstein's home, and he saw all
[36:07]these young girls outside of Jeffrey Epstein swimming pool in Palm Beach and and thought, "Well, maybe isn't that nice? Jeffrey Epstein is opening up his house to the
[36:18]neighborhood children. Now, I don't know if he said that, you know, meant to say that in a joking way, but
[36:26]these individuals were um aware that Jeffrey Epstein had some type of uh
[36:38]strange connection to these young girls. In fact, and we know this has been verified uh by by one of the witnesses, uh Jeffrey Epstein took one of his
[36:49]victims uh to Donald Trump and said uh used to quote um isn't this a good one?
[36:57]Um in a sense of isn't this um you know, whatever Epstein meant by this, but it was certainly uh meant in some type of sexual
[37:07]context. So, I'm most fascinated through these files of of learning about the fact that
[37:17]um these men u had connections with Jeffrey Epstein, but none of them alerted the authorities as to what might
[37:26]have been going on. And that also goes to the uh executives of the co-executives of Jeffrey Epstein State, his state, his
[37:36]lawyer, his accountant, who for years had a had must have had a sense that something was not right with Jeffrey
[37:47]Epstein. Uh some of the files I just read, in fact, this morning showed that uh that Epstein u had his accountant
[37:57]send u $250,000 without any question to a uh to a young woman. So So it raises
[38:08]questions as to the people around him had to have a sense that something was going on, but nobody was willing to alert authorities. And this went on for
[38:19]many, many years. >> I think it's really interesting that a lot of the people named the high-profile names in these documents, they're people that have had yearslong relationships
[38:30]with Jeffrey Epstein. They've been at least acquaintances, and now they're kind of going back on their relationships, but they had these standing relationships before. I know Melinda Gates in an interview, she said
[38:41]she met Jeffrey Epstein one time and this isn't her verbatim, but essentially she said, you know, he freaked me out so much it sent a shiver down my spine. That was the gist of what she said. But I want to turn to something you
[38:53]mentioned earlier and it was that photo of former President Bill Clinton. He was in a hot tub and that was from a previous release. But you saw in this release there were really sinister
[39:03]photos of Andrew Malbat and Windsor. He's known as the former Prince Andrew. There were photos of him crouched down next to a woman who was lying down. At
[39:14]one point, he had her hand on her stomach. I mean, it really was chilling. And he was looking directly at the camera. But when you've seen all of these dumps uh related to the Jeffrey
[39:24]Epstein files, you see photos that are embarrassing like Bill Clinton's photo, like this photo of the former Prince Andrew, like men in their underwear. And this was a lot of it was before social
[39:36]media or at least before social media was super prevalent. They wouldn't be photos that you would post online now. Certainly back then they wouldn't be photos that you would hang up in your house. They wouldn't be photos that you
[39:47]put in the scrapbook that you put in the family photo album. So why do all of these photos exist? Do you think it was for blackmail? I mean, what do you make
[39:56]of this? In terms of the photos, um, yeah, I do believe that, uh, a lot of this was for blackmail purposes. Uh,
[40:05]Jeffrey Epstein liked having he liked he liked doing favors for a lot of these men uh, and and, uh, you know, not only
[40:16]financial favors because he wanted to be in a situation to get something out of them contributing to their charities. Um, for instance, he had a close
[40:26]association with the former, excuse me, Israeli Prime Minister Ehoud Barack, who was a guest at Jeffrey Epstein's
[40:35]home uh, many times. Um, Jeffrey Epstein orchestrated financial deals for um, Mr.
[40:44]Barack with Lesie Wexner. So, he he would put people together. He would um um, uh, he was like a ring leader. He he he would he would put various people
[40:55]together uh so they could uh you know make money uh through different ways through through uh different business uh dealings and so forth. He was very good
[41:06]at that. But when he had people not only at his island but at his various homes and particularly individuals
[41:16]who um uh were keen to some of the more extravagant behavior, I absolutely believe that those photos uh were for
[41:27]blackmail purposes. I mean, for for instance, the the these new documents show uh photos of former Prince Andrew on all fours
[41:38]uh standing o standing over not standing over but but leaning over a young woman who is her her face is obviously blacked out. Um
[41:50]these are these are incriminating photos. Those photos are just splashed on the front page of the London Sun the other day with a headline something like, you know, shame on you or
[42:01]something like this. I mean, why these men would would allow themselves to be photographed this way. Why former President Clinton would allow himself be
[42:10]photographed in a pool uh with a girl. Uh why Prince Andrew would allow um those types of pictures taken. It just
[42:20]boggles the mind. Um, you know, Steve Bannon, of course, um, spent a lot of time with Jeffrey
[42:29]Epstein, uh, giving him advice to in a way to rehabilitate his, uh, reputa
[42:37]reputation, you know, which of course is really would have been impossible uh, even at the time, but he spent a lot of time with Jeffrey Epstein. And there's a
[42:48]picture that that I've always found fascinating and that is Steve Bannon sitting across from Jeffrey Epste. Jeffrey Epstein is sitting behind his in his chair at his desk and and right in
[42:59]front of Jeffrey Epstein on his desk is a photo that appears to show a very young girl who's incapacitated who has passed out. Now, why would a man
[43:11]have a photo framed on his desk of a minor who is who is who is passed out?
[43:22]I'm sure Steve Bannon saw that photo. Steve Bannon is a is a smart individual uh and and led a news organization. I'm
[43:31]sure he saw that photo. What was he thinking? What was he thinking that he's interviewing this person, talking to this person, uh, and and this man has this picture of
[43:42]this, um, incapacitated minor on his desk. Why didn't he leave there on alert and and call the police? I mean, it it I I'm just
[43:54]uh just boggles my mind as to these individuals who were up close with Jeffrey Epstein who saw things but never
[44:04]thought to alert authorities. >> I mean, every detail after every detail is more stunning than the next. It's really some of this stuff, a lot of this stuff is just chilling. But Deputy
[44:16]Attorney General Todd Blanch, he said the review's over after these millions of documents were released. Is this it? I mean, I know at the beginning of this interview, you said you still have more
[44:26]questions than answers. And I know no one has had time from when these were released on Friday to review all over three million of them. But I mean, what other questions do you still have that
[44:37]you want answered imminently? Well, I think that uh uh maybe maybe the you know this is where the lawmakers
[44:49]uh Thomas Massie and Roana, the oversight committee who are calling in witnesses uh who are trying to get down to the bottom of things, Senator Ron Weiden who is going down the financial
[45:00]trail looking at over a billion dollars of illegal not illegal but suspicious wire transfers that Jeffrey Epste and Russian banks. um some of the men
[45:10]involved. He's focused on Leon Black and his investigation. Um at the top of my list would be why can't we see the FBI
[45:20]302 reports that Thomas Massie has uh talked about involving these 20 men? And even if you can't release their
[45:30]identities, we need to see exactly what they've been accused of and and if in fact
[45:39]the uh DOJ took any efforts to cooperate um the accusations by trying to
[45:48]interview these men, by turning up um other evidence. Uh what did they do? I mean, if if you have uh at least 20 302
[46:00]reports involving six billionaires, people in go people in in government, um people in the entertainment industry.
[46:09]These are all powerful individuals. I mean, the DOJ has prosecuted, you know,
[46:18]famous people. Uh, you know, we just most recently Sean Combmes had been prosecuted, Harvey Weinstein's been prosecuted, Bill Cosby's been
[46:28]prosecuted. Um, although he's out now on a technicality, but the fact is, uh, the Department of Justice has taken on
[46:37]powerful individuals before related to, um, sexual abuse. And why are these men being given a pass?
[46:48]That that's what I want to know. Um and and why it seems there was a period of time right after Jeffrey Epstein's death as I
[46:58]referred to that 86page prosecution memorandum that was drawn up for um Jeffrey Burman at the time with
[47:07]the SDNY. Um it seemed at that time and they did go they did take on Gileain Maxwell and successfully prosecuted her with four witnesses who testified
[47:17]against her at trial in New York. But why did these other men um get off the hook? And uh if so, why can't the
[47:28]survivors at least see what efforts were made to get justice for them? um they feel
[47:38]that the uh government has has really uh for the most part turned their back at least this administration turned their back on on them and
[47:49]you know it we're the American public and the survivors are not getting the accountability that they deserve uh in this particular case and um while they
[48:01]while this transparency act called for all the documents to be released. We have not received all the documents and
[48:12]so many documents uh have redactions that it's impossible to decipher what what we're reading. >> I mean, sometimes when you click on a
[48:22]PDF of an email, all you see are the essentially the black boxes of redactions. And I mean, as you said, we're left with a lot of questions, more
[48:32]questions than answers. And as we get hopefully more information and more answers, I hope you can come back on and break it down with me. Barry Lavine, it is always a pleasure speaking with you.
[48:42]Thank you so much for the conversation. >> Thank you, Britney, for having me on today.