[0:00]He was Labour royalty. He loomed large over British politics for four years. This evening, Peter Mandlesson's North London home was raided by the police.
[0:10]His career and reputation in disgrace. The searches are related to an ongoing investigation into misconduct in public office involving a 72y old man, said the
[0:21]official statement by the Metropolitan Police. He has not been arrested and inquiries are ongoing. Files released by the US Department of
[0:31]Justice last week didn't just reveal a deep friendship between Peter Mandlesson and convicted pedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein, but also appeared to show that he had provided Epstein with
[0:42]market sensitive information from the heart of Downing Street. Yesterday, a belleaguered prime minister had this message for Epstein's victims. I am
[0:51]sorry for having believed Mandlesson's lies and appointed him and sorry that even now you're forced to
[1:01]watch this story unfold in public once again. >> For some Labour MPs, tonight's rage just compound a feeling they've already had. The prime minister has to go.
[1:13]>> Where we are now, we're beyond apologies, you know. >> But you've long been a critic of Kas. You already said that you want him to go. Is this the straw that breaks the camel back? And if so, what comes next?
[1:23]>> We need someone who can provide stability, who can provide credibility, and who can provide integrity in office? You don't get more than one shot at this. The public are not going to allow
[1:34]this to drag on for weeks and months and then have some messy leadership. We need to act quickly. It needs to be cauterized. >> How quickly does it need to change? >> Immediately. All communications between the prime
[1:45]minister, ministers, advisers, and Peter Mandlesson will now be investigated. Their release isn't a risk to the special relationship with the US that our former ambassador Eusta Shepherd
[1:55]says the conservative leader. It's a risk to Labor. What uh the government is worried about and Karma in particular is that it will expose just how close uh
[2:06]Peter Madison was to his administration uh helping to appoint reshuffles, deciding who should be in the cabinet. I think that that's what they're really worried about, not the special relationship. And that's why I don't
[2:16]want to see any delay at all. We should get the files, especially those surrounding the vetting and the appointment of Peter Mandles. >> K Starmer was already doing pretty badly
[2:26]in the polls. What's been the Mandlesson effect? >> Well, look, very often when it comes to these sorts of what you might call Westminster stories, I spend my time saying it's not the sort of thing the
[2:38]public really pay that much attention to. >> Are they paying attention this time? In this case, it is the opposite of that. It has cut through to the public in almost every focus group that we've run
[2:48]over the past week. And I think for the prime minister personally, it is particularly perilous. Now, what we're getting from focus groups is [music] people saying, why did he appoint the
[2:58]man? If he knew this stuff, why did he do it? Lord Mandlesson's position, it's understood, is that he has not acted in any way criminally and that he was not motivated by financial gain. Tonight,
[3:10]police were also searching Lord Manson's second home in Wilshshire, trying to find evidence of whether or not that's true. It is hard to imagine pictures that
[3:20]could be any more damaging for the prime minister in the eyes of his MPs going into this weekend than what's come out this evening. The mood here was already feeble beforehand. This is only going to
[3:31]put rocket boosters on it. Where we are at the moment, we've got that police investigation going on. It's rubbing up against the work of the intelligence and security committee who are going through the what I understand to be tens of
[3:42]thousands of documents. I understand that the prime minister would like all the documents relating to Lord Manister's appointment to US ambassador released as soon as possible because he's under the impression that they
[3:52]vindicate his judgment. The fear for many in Downing Street is that a these tens of thousand document take months and months to go through and that b what
[4:04]else comes out through them and how damaging they might be for advisers for ministers. In the last in the last couple of minutes, I've had a text message from Clyde Lewis, who you saw in
[4:16]that report there, saying, quote, "Every twist and every turn of this investigation is like a knife been twisting into the body politic of this Labor government and party. It's doing
[4:26]deep structural damage. It's simply intolerable. It cannot continue." The very down is, "If that's what one MP is sending to me, what on earth are they
[4:37]sending to each other over the course of this weekend?" Paul Magnamara in Westminster. Well, the Labour MP Absana Beum who is a member of the Socialist campaign group of leftwing Labor MPs
[4:47]joins us now from East London. Do you also think Karma should go? >> Made my position clear. I think both the prime minister and the chief of staff do
[4:56]need to consider their positions. It's Friday and the public are still asking how on earth Peter Mandelson ended up being appointed by the prime minister to
[5:07]the role of US ambassador given what was known and what was already in the public domain and given that the prime minister said at the dispatch box on Wednesday
[5:17]that he did in fact know. >> What's your answer to those people who support the prime minister who say, "Well, did you say this at the time given it was all in the public domain?
[5:28]Well, I remember speaking out even in September around the time that further revelations were sort of coming out and I was pointing to actually the uh the
[5:39]double standards and the ways in which rules appeared to be applied. I'm somebody who was suspended from the labor whip for over a year for voting to
[5:50]scrap the two child limit which I'm grateful has now been lifted. However, I waited over a year to have the labor whip returned to me. But somebody like
[6:00]Peter Mandelen was able to hold the labor whip and also remain a peer, a member of the House of Lords. What why is it that there were there was one set
[6:12]of rules for Peter Mandlesson and a different set of rules for people like myself? >> At the moment, the people who are calling for the prime minister to go are what his supporters would say the usual
[6:21]suspects. How many of the the more you know the rest of the parliamentary Labor Party also think this but just haven't yet said it?
[6:32]>> Firstly, this is a very serious issue. This is not just about people throwing things at each other internally in the Labor Party. I'm a survivor of domestic
[6:41]abuse and I think about those survivors of Epstein, those survivors and victims that still endure pain seeking justice and accountability. So this is a very
[6:51]very serious issue and there are many members in the Labor Party um who are feeling distraught who are feeling angry and many members of parliament from the
[7:01]Labour party that are feeling the same. I think it frankly beggars belief that an amendment would have been tabled in the way that it was would have which would have only ever been construed as
[7:12]an attempt to conceal and not to shine a light. And with this shameful climb down that followed in parliament on Wednesday led by Labour MPs, I think that the message was clear about how Labor MPs
[7:24]have been feeling. >> Isn't the truth that the Mandlesson scandal is so huge and encompassing that it doesn't matter who leads the Labour Party now? The Labor brand is
[7:34]trashed. >> It's really important that there is an independent statutory inquiry. That is what myself and many other colleagues are calling for. As of today, at least
[7:46]30 MPs, many of them Labour, but others from other parties that are also calling for and I'm sure the number will rise by the time of Monday itself. The issue is incredibly massive. The issue is
[7:57]incredibly serious. But it is important to point out uh the questions of what is it that gave rise to Peter Mandolson a
[8:06]third time to a position in government. What is the political culture that has developed within the Labour party that gave rise to this? And for me, it is
[8:16]important to highlight and I say this once again as a survivor of domestic violence myself and my own treatment and my own experiences inside the Labor Party trying to seek accountability
[8:26]around behavior around uh treatment. uh that it's important to make sure we understand uh in our country and for your viewers in particular that it is a
[8:36]particular culture in the Labor Party that unfortunately meant that Peter Manderson was able to continue to have so much power and so much influence in our party and then which translated into
[8:47]him having another government position. >> Absolutely. Now, first, the White House claimed it was just an internet meme and dismissed
[8:57]critics for their fake outrage. Now, amid a furious outcry from Republicans as well as Democrats, a post shared by Donald Trump containing racist imagery of the Obamas has been taken down with
[9:09]the White House now claiming it had been erroneously posted by a staffer. Let's get more from our US editor, Anushkana. Oshka.
[9:18]>> So, look, this post went up just before midnight last night. It was in the middle of a stream of posts from Donald Trump's account and it was part of a video that was effectively arguing the
[9:29]2020 election was stolen. But at the end, an image popped up of Barack and Michelle Obama's faces superimposed on two cartoon images of apes. Now, you
[9:40]don't need me to tell you that that is a disgustingly racist trope, one that we are not prepared to show, and one that led to a lot of anger. But as you say, the initial reaction from the White
[9:52]House was to play it down. They actually sent us the internet meme, as they called it, that it had come from, in which Donald Trump is portrayed as the lion in the Lion King. And there was a
[10:02]statement from Caroline Levit, the press secretary herself, telling people to stop the fake outrage. The problem was the outrage wasn't just coming from opponents. It was coming from senior
[10:12]Republicans in the capital behind me, including the most senior black senator, Senator Tim Scott. Let me read you what he posted. He said, "Praying it was fate because it is the most racist thing I've
[10:24]seen out of this White House." >> So, was that the tipping point? >> Well, it took them another few hours to actually take it down, and it had been
[10:34]up in total for more than 12 hours, but yes, it is now down. However, when I speak to Democrats on um the Hill today, they say it didn't actually surprise
[10:44]them because to them, Donald Trump has attacked the Obamas racistly for many years, starting with that birther campaign where he tried to get the former president to put out his birth
[10:55]certificate to prove he was born in this country. Then there's the way he always says Barack Hussein Obama. Why does he use his middle name? We don't say Donald John Trump, do we? I heard him say it
[11:06]again yesterday to critics that is part of trying to dog whistle, xenophobic dog whistle basically. And then there have been the attacks on Somali Americans, calling them garbage. We went to
[11:18]Minneapolis in December and we saw the impact of that death threats directly to Somali businesses. Now, the White House say none of this is racist. They've obviously brought down that post, but to
[11:29]many critics that is what it looks like. >> Thanks, Anushka. Well, let's return to the Epstein scandal now. And the survivors of his abuse say they are no closer to justice despite the latest
[11:40]release of millions of files. And they say they'll carry on fighting for all those involved to be held to account, however powerful. Before we came on air, I spoke to Haley Robson, who was invited
[11:50]to Epstein's house for a massage, then abused by him at the age of just 16. A warning, she describes highly distressing experiences. In the sense of
[12:00]you, >> I was recruited um as a high school student in 2002 and they took me to
[12:09]Jeffrey's house and what I was told was not what happened. I was sexually abused for an entire hour upstairs um in his bathroom.
[12:20]And after the hour of sexual abuse, um, he brought out sex toys and he thought that he was going to use those on me. And when I became extremely
[12:32]uncomfortable and I told him, you know, I'm just not comfortable with that. That's that's I've never even experienced at 16 years old. I didn't even know what that was, you know, and
[12:43]so you you know, he made me do things to him in that hour and he gave me an ultimatum. Either
[12:54]you're going to massage me and come back every time I call or you're bringing someone to me and that's just it. >> So he he was forcing you to go out and get other girls.
[13:04]>> Correct. When you were told, you know, that he had to bring other people, you had to bring other people to him, what did you tell them about what they were going to do?
[13:16]>> The same thing that was told to me, which was bring your friends, you know, it's a massage.
[13:25]And at that time, I didn't realize what was happening at 16 years old. I wasn't capable of understanding what was actually happening in that moment. And then I found out from the
[13:37]girls that I brought to Jeffrey's house that they also too had to bring girls to Jeffrey's house. So it was a sex pyramid scheme. And this
[13:47]is why Jeffrey was so capable of escaping by for so long without getting caught was because his hands were clean
[13:57]procuring children because he used children to sexually abuse and then to use them to procure more children to bring to him.
[14:07]>> What What was the accountability you wanted? Jeffrey is not a person who is somebody that can be held accountable. And we're seeing that through the government and the DOJ with the release
[14:18]of the Epstein files and the verbiage and language and material that's in those files are so um salacious and evil. when it comes to the administration that you you feel so
[14:30]let down by. I mean, obviously Trump's attitude towards women is something that we have known for years and years since long before you decided to vote for him.
[14:40]And and how how do you feel about Trump specifically now? I can't say it wouldn't be appropriate for me to use
[14:49]that language on this kind of platform, but I think it's fair to say that I have nothing nice to say about him, this administration. I do not wish him well.
[15:00]And you know where justice is not present or won't prevail, you're going to have judgment day come very soon when
[15:09]you go to meet God and you will have a lot to answer for and you're not going to heaven. >> Um and what did you think of Virginia Drey's
[15:19]um campaign and actions to try and uh bring Prince Andrew to account as he was. I get emotional every time I talk about
[15:29]Virginia. Um, Virginia was a light for a lot of us and
[15:42]she's an American hero. She wasn't perfect, but she was an American hero who against all odds
[15:51]brought campaign to bring down some of the most powerful people in the world. And it cost her her life.
[16:02]It costed her her life. And so for me, she will always be on a pedestal. She's incredible. She's fearless against
[16:13]all odds at the cost of her life. >> And and do you think what has happened to Andrew Mountbatton Windsor as he's now called is justice? what he did to Virginia
[16:32]doesn't even equate justice, you know, like like I said, it cost her her life. So, there is no justice for Virginia in that
[16:43]matter. But, as the other survivors are sitting back and seeing this, I know if she were here, she would be cheering us on. And this is exactly the kind of justice that she was waiting for.
[16:55]>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry to upset you with these questions. I I want to um bring you bring you back to one other other matter which is to do with the scandal in British politics at the moment. In
[17:06]the case of Mandolson, he carried on being involved with Epstein as a friend after he had been found guilty. What do you think of a
[17:17]society that enables people to carry on in their roles in in in high levels of the establishment
[17:27]uh and sort of forgive them for their past associations? It's horrendous that these people even get to just walk around as if, you know,
[17:37]they're untouchable and to be able to have a future and to be able to go to work and to be able to live a life and and the survivors don't get that, you
[17:48]know. So, it feels like Lady Justice is in balance right now and we need to bring that balance back to not just America but to every country across the
[17:59]world. Haley Robson, thank you very much indeed for your time. >> Thank you for having me. >> And a reminder, you can find places to seek help on channel 4.com/support. Now, the Democratic Congressman Sua
[18:12]Subramanium is a member of the House Oversight Committee and has called on Peter Mandlesson and Andrew Mambbatton Windsor to testify. I spoke to him earlier and asked if he was any nearer
[18:23]being able to question Andrew. I hope that at some point he will agree to it but as of this date he has not uh made any effort to reach out to me.
[18:34]>> What conclusions do you draw from his behavior? >> I think you have to conclude based on everything that's coming out that he's trying to go in hiding trying to avoid
[18:45]questions and and trying to hope that the whole issue goes away. I I would say that it's not going to go away, not just for him, but for anyone who is involved or engaged with Jeffrey Epstein.
[18:55]>> And what about Gileain Maxwell? I mean, who is she going to be testifying to? What do you want to know? >> I have a lot of questions for her about um all the crimes that were committed.
[19:07]Uh we expect her to plead the fifth amendment, meaning she will not tell us anything. Uh and but we will continue to question her. I I really just want to see her face when we ask the questions.
[19:18]Uh the reality is uh you know she's also uh someone who has perjured herself many times and is not a truthful person. She also I think is hoping for President
[19:29]Trump to pardon her at this point. This is her only way out and uh certainly President Trump whose administration has given her better accommodations in prison. So perhaps that strategy is
[19:39]working. But in any case uh you know we certainly want to know about Jeffrey Epson's crimes as well as who covered them up and how we prevent them in the future. What about the former uh British ambassador to Washington, Peter
[19:49]Mandlesson? His homes are being searched in Britain today by the police. Do you want to hear from him, too? What do you want to what do you want to know? >> He's showing up in the documents. And we
[19:59]like to let the evidence do the talking. And the evidence is pointing towards him uh quite a bit. And so certainly that's that's a good uh progress as far as him
[20:09]you know losing titles and having you know his things searched and being investigated over there because we don't have as much jurisdiction over him. But the reality is there are a lot of people engaged and involved and it's not just
[20:20]him not just Andrew Mountbatton Windsor and we need to hear from as many of them as possible in the future. >> Right. And and if you think there's still a cover up who's driving it? >> Well right now the president has all of the files and he is not releasing them
[20:32]and so let's start there. I mean, he is violating the law by not releasing all of the files. Two and a half million files are out there, many of which have the documents that I've been looking for, and many others on the committee have been looking for, like draft
[20:44]subpoenas and witness statements, uh, statements from, uh, w from victims who are naming names. And so, they're still protecting people. They're still, you know, trying to prevent us from doing a full investigation. And we will find the
[20:55]truth and we will make sure that accountability is had. I mean, obviously Trump's name comes up a lot in the files and there are the pictures uh from uh history that we've also seen, but uh do do you really believe that if there were
[21:07]incriminating documents uh that they would be released? >> The president is very much concerned about his image. Uh some of the most damning documents about the president uh to date are the ones that were released
[21:18]not by the FBI or DOJ, they were released by the Epstein estate, which Trump has no control over. Just on another matter, um a a post appeared on
[21:29]Donald Trump's truth social feed um with, you know, bluntly racist imagery about the the Obamas. The White House
[21:39]spokesperson initially defended this and called it fake outrage. Um and now they have withdrawn it and said it was a staffer who posted these images in
[21:50]error. What do you make of it? You know, I'm glad that they're trying to backtrack, but the reality is that was absolutely uncalled for. It was racist. I worked for the Obamas. Uh they are great people. They served our country
[22:01]well. They do do not deserve to be treated like that. And so the president should be mindful of what he uh is doing. sign with