[0:00]YOU KNOW, ISABEL, WHAT I THINK IS SO AMAZING ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS THAT THIS IS A SECRETIVE WORLD, WHAT'S PLAYING OUT INSIDE 26 FEDERAL PLAZA. UM, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE MIGRANTS ARE BEING TAKEN, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THEM ONCE THEY'RE DETAINED.
[0:13]WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COURTROOM. NO JOURNALISTS ARE ALLOWED INSIDE. SO IN TERMS OF JOURNALISTIC ACCESS, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT'S INSIDE. WHAT IS THAT LIKE? BEING INSIDE THE COURTROOM IS NOT LIKE BEING IN ANY OF THE OTHER COURTROOMS BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
[0:30]WHAT THE JUDGE SAYS AND WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO THE RESPONDENTS. SO IN TYPICAL COURTROOMS AND. THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO GO OFF OF WHEN A JUDGE SAYS TO YOU NEXT YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO SEE SOMEBODY NEXT YEAR AND WHAT'S
[0:42]HAPPENING IN THESE COURTROOMS IS FAMILIES ARE ASSEMBLING, THEY'RE COMING IN TOGETHER, AND A LOT OF THEM ARE LEAVING AND AS SOON AS THEY CROSS THE THRESHOLD BETWEEN THE COURTROOM AND THE HALLWAY WHERE THERE ARE MASKED AGENTS WAITING,
[0:56]THEY'RE BEING SNATCHED UP. YEAH, I WAS THERE WITH YOU AND I GOT TO SEE IT UM MYSELF. WHAT I DIDN'T GET TO DO WAS HAVE THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU DO, WHERE YOU'RE MAKING, WHAT ARE REALLY BEAUTIFUL PIECES OF ART, IN ADDITION TO BEING CRITICAL UM DOCUMENTATION.
[1:13]AS A JOURNALIST, AS AN ARTIST, ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE ABLE TO DOCUMENT THIS. WHAT ARE YOU SEEING INSIDE THE ROOMS? I'M SEEING A LOT OF WARMTH. I'M SEEING FAMILIES THAT ARE, MOTHERS WITH THEIR CHILDREN.
[1:26]I'M SEEING FATHERS WHO ARE TURNING AND LOOKING OUT THE DOOR, CHILDREN WHO ARE SITTING AT THE TABLE, IN THESE BIG CHAIRS WITH MICS HOVERING OVER. THEIR HEADS LOOKING OUT AN OPEN DOOR AND SEEING MASKED AGENTS AND
[1:41]I'M ALSO SEEING, THIS WARMTH AND THIS SORT OF HOPE THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY EXPECT TO FIND IN THOSE BUILDINGS. IT'S BEING, IT EXISTS WITH THESE FAMILIES WHO ARE STILL SHOWING
[1:55]UP AND TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AS YOU SAID, IT'S ONE THING TO SIT IN DONALD TRUMP'S TRIAL IN LOWER MANHATTAN. AND DRAW CRIMINAL DEFENDANTS. ANOTHER THING TO DRAW FAMILIES OR PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THEY'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING BY SHOWING UP IN COURT AND THEN THEY WALK OUT AND THEY'RE BEING
[2:08]DETAINED BY THESE MASKED FEDERAL AGENTS IN THIS SECRETIVE PROCESS. WHAT'S IT LIKE FOR YOU TO BE THERE AND WATCH THEM GO THROUGH THIS? IT'S HARD. I MEAN, I'M NO EXPERT AND I'M SOMEBODY THAT EXPOSES MYSELF TO
[2:23]THE EMOTIONAL. TRUTHS THAT ARE EXISTING AND THERE'S YOU KNOW IN THESE SPACES, BUT THERE'S THIS THERE ARE THESE LARGE AMOUNTS OF RELIEF OR GRIEF AND
[2:36]I AM JUST A NORMAL PERSON WHO IS TRYING TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON AND BECAUSE I HAVE THIS ACCESS, I DECIDED IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT I WENT DOWN THERE. IT'S HARD, I'M PROCESSING.
[2:48]THROUGH THE ART. WHAT ABOUT THE AGENTS? WHEN I WAS THERE, YOU KNOW A LOT OF THESE AGENTS, UH, ALMOST ON A PERSONAL LEVEL BECAUSE YOU ARE THERE ALMOST EVERY DAY. WHAT DO THEY SAY TO YOU? WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?
[3:01]I KNOW THEM ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, WHICH IS ODD. A LOT OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY FASCINATED BY THE ART. I THINK IT'S DISARMING. IT'S BEEN THIS WEIRD UM. SPACE FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO
[3:16]LOOK AT THEMSELVES AND FIND THEMSELVES, AND THEY THINK THEY LOOK COOL AND I MEAN IT'S THE AESTHETICS OF INTIMIDATION SO I THINK THEM POINTING TO REPRESENTATIONS OF THEMSELVES LIKE THAT AND SAYING IT LOOKS COOL I THINK IT'S JUST.
[3:32]UM A WAY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE THINGS THAT THEY'RE STRIVING FOR. I MEAN THEY ARE MASKED THE COLORS YOU CAN SEE IN THE DRAWINGS, THE COLORS ARE DARK, UM THEY LOOM IN THOSE HALLS,
[3:45]THOSE HALLS ARE VERY SMALL, BUT MOSTLY THEY'RE JUST UM. COMMENTING AND THERE'S THIS WEIRD SEPARATION BETWEEN ME AND THE PHOTOGRAPHERS. I DON'T PRESENT THE SAME THREAT BECAUSE I'M NOT MAKING PHOTO REALISTIC WORK,
[4:00]BUT I'M STILL CAPTURING THE EMOTION FROM POINT A TO POINT B. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN A SENSE CAPTURING THIS FIRST DRAFT OF HISTORY. WHAT'S THAT LIKE? IT'S A RESPONSIBILITY,
[4:16]SO I'VE GONE AS OFTEN AS I CAN. IT FEELS VERY URGENT AND UH BASICALLY SET EVERYTHING ELSE ASIDE TO DO THIS BECAUSE I AM THE ONLY CHORD ARTIST THAT IS THERE RIGHT NOW.
[4:32]AND IT'S IT'S WEIRD TO SAY THAT IT'S AN HONOR, BUT I'M, I FEEL LIKE IT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN CALLED TO DO. I FEEL LIKE ANY ARTIST HATES WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS, WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SEE
[4:45]WHEN UM PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE SKETCHES THAT YOU'RE MAKING IN THE COURTROOM? WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO FEEL? BUT HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? I THINK THAT IT'S, NO,
[4:59]I HAVEN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT, I'M MAKING IT AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE GET IT AS SOON AS THEY SEE IT UM THE THING THAT'S THE MOST REASSURING TO ME IS THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE SPACE, THE PHOTOGRAPHERS, EVEN THE AGENTS,
[5:12]THE FAMILIES, EVERYBODY IS, SEEMING TO UNDERSTAND IT AND IT'S RESONATING SO HOPEFULLY THAT. CAN SERVE AS SOME SORT OF TESTIMONY TO WHAT'S GOING ON AT 26 FEDERAL PLAZA.
[5:24]I'M SURE IT'S A LOT OF WEIGHT, ON YOUR SHOULDERS BEING THE ONLY ONE ABLE TO BE INSIDE AND SORT OF YOUR DRAFT IS THE DRAFT THAT WE ALL GET TO WORK OFF OF, BUT I THINK AT LEAST ON BEHALF OF MYSELF, AND I KNOW I THINK ON BEHALF OF THE OTHER JOURNALISTS WHO ARE IN
[5:37]THE HALLWAY THERE WHO I GOT TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH AS WELL, JUST THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING. IT'S AMAZING AND IT'S IMPORTANT AND IT, IT REALLY MATTERS. THANKS. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT, JACOB. PROMISE WE'VE GOT THAT BREAKING NEWS.
[5:52]GOOD TO BE WITH YOU. I'M KATIE TUR. WE'RE FOLLOWING THAT NEWS OUT OF WASHINGTON DC, WHERE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS JUST RELEASED TRANSCRIPTS AND AUDIO FROM EPSTEIN CO-CONSPIRATOR GLAINE MAXWELL WITH DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD BLANCH,
[6:05]TO HOUSE LAWMAKERS. AND AGAIN, THERE IS AUDIO. THE AUDIO IS COMING. WE ARE TRYING TO TURN IT. JOINING US NOW, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY CATHERINE CHRISTIAN.
[6:18]NEW YORK TIMES OPINION COLUMNIST DAVID FRENCH IS WITH US AS WELL. I WILL NOTE THE INTERESTING TIMING. IN DOING BOTH THE JOHN BOLTON SEARCH TODAY AND RELEASING 263 PAGES OF EPSTEIN
[6:32]OF THE GLAINE MAXWELL INTERVIEW, I'M GOING TO JUST NOW, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A BIT. I'M GOING TO READ THE PERTINENT INTERVIEW PORTIONS RELATED TO BOTH PRESIDENT CLINTON AND PRESIDENT TRUMP BETWEEN TODD BLANCH AND GLAINE MAXWELL.
[6:46]I WILL ALSO NOTE THAT SITTING IN ON THIS INTERVIEW. WAS AN FBI AGENT WHICH MEANS, AND IT'S A PROFFER AGREEMENT SO IF MAXWELL LIED TO TODD BLANCHE OR OTHERS, SHE COULD BE PROSECUTED LYING TO AN FBI AGENT,
[7:00]WHETHER UNDER OATH OR NOT IS A FEDERAL CRIME. SO BEAR WITH ME. I'M GOING TO READ IT AS WE TRY TO TURN THIS AUDIO. THIS IS ON PAGE 103 AGAIN OF THESE 263 PAGES. SHOUT OUT TO TOM WINTER FOR FINDING IT SO QUICKLY.
[7:14]TODD BLANCH ASKING GULAINE MAXWELL, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER, FOR EXAMPLE, PRESIDENT CLINTON EVER RECEIVED A MASSAGE? GLAINE MAXWELL, I DON'T BELIEVE HE DID. TODD BLANCH. AND WHAT MAKES YOU SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE HE DID?
[7:27]GILLAINE? WELL, BECAUSE I DON'T, SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THE TIME THAT EPSTEIN AND PRESIDENT CLINTON SPENT TOGETHER, THE 25, THE ONLY TIMES I BELIEVE, OBVIOUSLY. THEY TRAVELED.
[7:41]THERE WAS THAT, THE PLANE. THEY WENT ON THE PLANE 26 TIMES OR WHATEVER. THAT WOULD BE ONE JOURNEY. SO THEY SPENT TIME ON THE PLANE TOGETHER AND I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS EVER A MASSAGE ON THE PLANE.
[7:54]SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY TIME THAT I THINK PRESIDENT CLINTON COULD HAVE RECEIVED A MASSAGE. AND HE DIDN'T BECAUSE I WAS THERE. TODD BLANCHE, AND YOU MENTIONED THAT EARLY IN THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION,
[8:06]YOU MENTIONED PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THE EARLY 90S. MAXWELL, YES, BLANCHE. WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE AS FAR AS PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU OR MR. EPSTEIN? MAXWELL. I JUST WANT TO SAY FROM MY RELATIONSHIP WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP,
[8:22]RELATIONSHIP'S A BIG WORD, BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I MET HIM OR I BELIEVE I MAY HAVE BECAUSE OF MY FATHER IN THE 90S. BLANCHE, OK, SO MY FATHER LIKED HIM VERY MUCH. HE WAS LOVED,
[8:35]REALLY LIKED HIS WIFE AS WELL BECAUSE WE WERE BOTH CZECHOSLOVAKIAN AND AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ALWAYS VERY CORDIAL AND VERY KIND TO ME. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I FIND I ADMIRE HIS EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT IN BECOMING THE PRESIDENT,
[8:51]AND I LIKE HIM, AND I'VE ALWAYS LIKED HIM. SO THAT IS THE SUM AND SUBSTANCE OF MY ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, WHAT ABOUT MISTER EPSTEIN'S RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, MAXWELL? I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY MET.
[9:04]I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY BECAME FRIENDS. I CERTAINLY SAW THEM TOGETHER AND REMEMBER THE FEW TIMES I OBSERVED THEM TOGETHER. BUT THEY WERE FRIENDLY. I MEAN THEY SEEMED FRIENDLY. WAS THAT IN SOCIAL SETTINGS OR WAS THAT IN PRIVATE SETTINGS?
[9:20]I BELIEVE I ONLY EVER SAW THEM IN SOCIAL SETTINGS. I DON'T RECALL ANY PRIVATE SETTINGS. DID YOU EVER, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO MAR A LAGO IN PALM BEACH,
[9:34]I HAVE BLANCHE. IN WHAT TIME PERIOD ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT WHEN YOU SAY YES? BY THE WAY, THESE ARE PICTURES FROM MAR A LAGO THAT WE'RE SHOWING ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THE PRESIDENT PURCHASED MAR A LAGO,
[9:46]SO FROM WHENEVER IT TURNED INTO THE CLUB, I WENT THERE AND I WAS, I LOVED GOING THERE. DID YOU GO THERE ALONE OR WITH MISTER EPSTEIN? MOSTLY ALONE.
[10:00]DO YOU KNOW WHERE MAXWELL AND THE TIMES I WENT THERE IT WAS FOR AN EVENT MAYBE ONCE OR TWICE. AND DO YOU KNOW WHETHER MR. EPSTEIN EVER WENT THERE? I BELIEVE HE DID, BUT AGAIN WE WERE.
[10:15]HE DIDN'T TAKE ME WITH HIM ALL THE TIME, SO HE WOULD GO, OH RIGHT, HE NEVER, I NEVER, HE DID FROM TIME TO TIME, BUT HE WOULD GO ALONE. I THINK HE WOULD GO MAYBE GO HIMSELF TO THE SPA.
[10:28]I CERTAINLY DID. DID YOU EVER OBSERVE PRESIDENT TRUMP RECEIVING A MASSAGE? NEVER. DID YOU EVER OBSERVE, YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE, HAVE YOU SEEN THERE'S PHOTOGRAPHS,
[10:41]PUBLIC PHOTOGRAPHS OF MR. EPSTEIN AND PRESIDENT TRUMP TOGETHER? AND THERE'S PHOTOGRAPHS, I THINK YOU'RE IN SOME OF THEM AGAIN, THESE ARE ONES THAT WE'RE SHOWING. AS WELL,
[10:58]THOSE ALL APPEAR TO BE SOCIAL SETTINGS. YES. DO YOU? MAXWELL INTERRUPTS. THAT'S MY MEMORY. THEY WERE SOCIAL SETTINGS. I DON'T KNOW EPSTEIN IF HE HAD WHATEVER THE NATURE OF THE PRESIDENT'S FRIENDSHIP,
[11:12]IF YOU WILL, OR WHOEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE THAT WITH EPSTEIN. I WAS, I NEVER WITNESSED. I THINK THEY WERE FRIENDLY LIKE PEOPLE ARE IN SOCIAL SETTINGS. I DON'T THINK THEY WERE CLOSE FRIENDS OR I
[11:25]CERTAINLY NEVER WITNESSED THE PRESIDENT IN ANY OF, I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING HIM IN HIS HOUSE, FOR INSTANCE. I ACTUALLY NEVER SAW THE PRESIDENT IN ANY TYPE OF MASSAGE SETTING. I NEVER WITNESSED THE PRESIDENT IN ANY APPROPRIATE SETTING IN ANY WAY.
[11:40]THE PRESIDENT WAS NEVER INAPPROPRIATE WITH ANYBODY IN THE TIMES THAT I WAS WITH HIM, HE WAS A GENTLEMAN IN ALL RESPECTS. WHEN'S THE LAST TIME? YOU SAW HIM IN PERSON,
[11:53]PRESIDENT TRUMP, IT WAS, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME, PROBABLY NOT, SOMETIME IN THE BEGINNING, MID MID 2000S MAYBE. AND IT WOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN A SOCIAL SETTING AS FAR AS I CAN RECALL.
[12:06]AND DID YOU EVER HEAR MR. EPSTEIN OR ANYBODY SAY THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD DONE ANYTHING INAPPROPRIATE WITH MASSEUSES OR WITH ANYBODY IN YOUR WORLD? ABSOLUTELY NEVER IN ANY CONTEXT.
[12:20]DO YOU KNOW WHETHER 14 MASSEUSES FROM MAR A LAGO SPA? ENDED UP GIVING 15 MASSAGES. I'M SORRY, TAKE OUT THOSE NUMBERS. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER MASSEUSES FROM MAR A LAGO SPA ENDED UP GIVING MASSAGES TO
[12:33]PRIVATE MASSAGES TO MR. I'M NOT ASKING FOR WHAT YOU MAY HAVE READ, BUT AT THE TIME, FROM YOUR PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THAT'S TRUE, I DON'T, I DON'T RECALL.
[12:46]IS IT POSSIBLE? BUT I DON'T REMEMBER. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT, SO I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T RECALL THAT, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE. DO YOU HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF YOU EVER RECRUITING A MASSEUSE FROM MAR A LAGO
[13:00]TO GIVE A PRIVATE MASSAGE TO MR. EPSTEIN I NEVER RECRUITED A MASSEUSE FROM MAR A LAGO FOR THAT, AS FAR AS I REMEMBER. I CAN'T EVER RECOLLECT DOING THAT. SO WHAT I THINK WE SHOULD DO NOW,
[13:16]IT'S ABOUT 12:15. WE'LL TAKE A BREAK AND WE'LL COME BACK IN A LITTLE BIT. OK. FORGIVE ME FOR THE PAUSES IN THE READING. THE CONVERSATION IS BROKEN IN PLACES,
[13:29]BUT THAT IS THE TWO PAGES THAT I THINK TOM WINTER FLAGGED AS THE MOST PERTINENT TO THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING. TOM WINTER JOINS US NOW, INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT FOR NBC NEWS,
[13:42]TOM. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS? SO THERE'S 2222 REFERENCES TO DONALD TRUMP ON THE FIRST DAY, 3 REFERENCES TO HIM ON THE SECOND DAY OF THE INTERVIEW WITH MAXWELL. I HAVEN'T READ THROUGH ALL OF THE REFERENCES TO TRUMP.
[13:56]I HIGHLIGHTED THE SECTION WHERE SHE'S REFERRED TO IN LAW ENFORCEMENT CIRCLES AS POINT BLANK ASKED, DID YOU SEE THAT THING THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT? YOU'VE JUST READ THERE. IT'S A TRICKY READ BECAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE KIND OF COMBINED WITH.
[14:08]IT SO THAT'S WHY IF FOLKS ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT AT HOME, THERE'S PAGE NUMBERS SPECIFIC LINE NUMBERS ASSOCIATED WITH EACH ONE, SO IT CAN BE A LITTLE BIT TRICKY TO READ OFF THE CUFF. AS FAR AS THIS INTERVIEW, IT WAS CONDUCTED WITH A FEDERAL AGENT IN THE
[14:22]ROOM WITH AN FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN THE ROOM, AND BLANCHE AT THE START OF HIS INTERVIEW SAYS, LOOK, YOU CAN TELL US HERE TODAY WE'RE JUST HAVING A CONVERSATION. HE STARTS OUT BY SAYING I'M NOT PROMISING TO SEND. JUDGE NATHAN,
[14:35]A LETTER THAT'S THE JUDGE WHO OVERSAW MAXWELL'S CASE. SHE'S NO LONGER OVERSEEING THE CASE BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN APPOINTED TO THE APPELLATE COURTS AND SAID BASICALLY YOU COULD TALK ABOUT WHATEVER YOU WANT. THERE'S TWO BIG EXCEPTIONS. THE FIRST ONE IS THERE'S AN FBI AGENT IN THE ROOM.
[14:48]THERE'S OTHER FEDERAL OFFICIALS IN THE ROOM. I'M A FEDERAL OFFICIAL. IF YOU LIE TO US, YOU'RE ON THE HOOK. YOU CAN BE PROSECUTED. SO THAT WAS KIND OF A QUESTION GOING INTO THIS, WHICH IS, IF BLANCHE WAS IN THERE BY HIMSELF. TECHNICALLY SHE COULD BE CHARGED WITH PERJURY,
[15:01]BUT THEN HE'D BE A WITNESS TO IT. IT'D BE A BIT OF A DIFFICULT SCENARIO. SO NOW THERE'S OTHERS IN THERE. SO THERE'S A HOLD ON THAT, AND WE FOCUS ON PERJURY WITH MAXWELL FOR A REASON. I'LL GET TO THAT IN A 2ND. 2ND THING IS THAT IF FOR SOME REASON SHE IS RETRIED,
[15:15]THERE'S A THERE'S OVERTURNED AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL, THIS CASE SOMEHOW COMES BACK. THAT IF SOMEBODY WERE TO SAY SOMETHING SPECIFIC TO WHAT SHE TESTIFIED TO,
[15:29]THEY COULD USE THAT IN A CROSS-EXAMINATION SCENARIO. SO THOSE ARE THE TWO KIND OF CAVEATS THERE. I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO READ. I'LL LET YOU READ IT. I'M JUST CURIOUS. HAVE YOU, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S EXTRAORDINARY TO HAVE THIS TRANSCRIPT,
[15:42]SO I'M GOING TO PUT THAT OUT THERE. I THINK IT'S EXTRAORDINARY, YOU TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, FOR HER TO SAY THIS WHEN SHE'S ASKED ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP, FOR HER TO MAKE A POINT OF SAYING I ADMIRE HIS EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT
[15:55]IN BECOMING THE PRESIDENT NOW, AND I LIKE HIM AND I'VE ALWAYS LIKED HIM. PLEASE PARDON ME. I DIDN'T SAY THAT FOR THE RECORD, BUT I I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS GOING TO CONFUSE YOUR VOICE WITH KATHERINE.
[16:07]THAT'S CORRECT, OR KATHERINE'S ACUMEN. AS FAR AS THIS GOES, NONE OF THIS IS SURPRISING. NONE OF WHAT SHE SAYS IN THE VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE'VE HAD TO READ IT IS VERY SURPRISING.
[16:20]THE REFERENCES TO TRUMP, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER QUESTIONS THAT ASKED ABOUT OTHER WELL KNOWN BUSINESS FIGURES. BILL GATES, TO BE CLEAR, SHE DOESN'T SAY THAT SHE EVER SAW BILL GATES DOING ANYTHING INAPPROPRIATE.
[16:33]HE ASKS ABOUT OTHER SILICON VALLEY TYPE FIGURES. THERE'S NO INDICATION THAT THERE'S ANY SORT OF IMPROPRIETY THERE. IT'S 263 PAGES THE FIRST DAY. I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH IT. IT'S NOT EXHAUSTIVE, BUT YES,
[16:46]IF IN ANY OTHER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCE, THIS INTERVIEW WOULD NOT HAPPEN THE WAY THAT IT HAPPENED, PERIOD. THIS IS A SCENARIO WHERE, WHAT DOES SHE KIND OF GET OUT OF THIS BECAUSE THERE'S NO INITIAL INDICATION THAT
[17:01]SHE'S POINTING TO ANY NEW SPECIFIC LEADS AND IN THE FIRST PART OF THE FIRST DAY. THE FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP IS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS INVOLVEMENT,
[17:14]AND SHE IS TALKING ABOUT HOW DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG AND SHE'S THIS IS BEING PUT INTO THE PUBLIC SPHERE. IT'S SOMETHING THAT DONALD TRUMP CAN USE. GOOD EVENING FROM NEW YORK. I'M CHRIS HAYES. IT HAS BEEN A TRULY CRAZY NEWS DAY IN THE MADE FOR TV
[17:29]SLASH ONGOING NATIONAL NIGHTMARE THAT IS THE SECOND PRESIDENCY OF DONALD TRUMP. TONIGHT WE ARE TRACKING TWO BIG STORIES COMING OUT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SOME OTHERS WE'LL DISCUSS OVER THE NEXT 2 HOURS. THE FIRST BEING THE FBI RAID ON THE HOME AND OFFICE
[17:43]OF FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JOHN BOLTON. YOU CAN SEE THE PICTURES OF THEM TAKING BOXES OUT THERE. IT STARTED JUST AFTER DAWN THIS MORNING. IT WENT ON FOR NEARLY 8 HOURS. BOLTON HAS BECOME A PROMINENT TRUMP CRITIC
[17:57]AND WAS TALKING ABOUT FEAR OF RETRIBUTION FROM THE PRESIDENT AS EARLY AS LAST WEEK. WE'LL HAVE MORE ON THAT STORY, BUT THEN HOURS AFTER THIS NEWS BROKE, THE DOJ RELEASED THE AUDIO RECORDINGS OF THOSE HIGHLY IRREGULAR MEETINGS.
[18:11]I MEAN TRULY, TRULY ANOMALOUS, UNPRECEDENTED. BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP'S FORMER PERSONAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, THE GUY THAT YOU KNOW, TRIED TO GET HIM CLEARED OF CRIMINAL CHARGES, WHO IS NOW THE #2 AT DOJ,
[18:24]THAT GUY TODD BLANCH, AND THE CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER GLENN MAXWELL. SHE, OF COURSE, NOTORIOUSLY, FAMOUSLY, THE LONGTIME CONFIDANT AND ENABLER, CO-CONSPIRATOR OF THE LATE CHILD SEX TRAFFICKER,
[18:39]JEFFREY EPSTEIN. BLANCHE ANNOUNCED THAT THE 6 HOURS OF RECORDINGS AND 329 PAGES OF TRANSCRIPTS WERE BEING RELEASED TODAY, QUOTE, IN THE INTEREST OF TRANSPARENCY, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THAT'S ALL OF THEIR CONVERSATION. MORE ON THAT LATER.
[18:53]MISSING FROM THE TRANSPARENCY, IS THE OBVIOUS QUESTION WHY ON EARTH WOULD THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TAKE A PRIVATE MEETING WITH A CONVICTED CHILD SEX TRAFFICKER WHO HIS BOSS DONALD TRUMP HAS TIES TO, AND THEN,
[19:05]AS SOON AS SHE TELLS HIM WHAT SHE TOLD HIM, GETS UPGRADED TO A LOWER SECURITY FEDERAL PRISON. NOW THAT QUESTION REMAINS UNANSWERED. WHAT WE DO KNOW FROM THE TROVE OF MATERIALS
[19:18]THEY RELEASED IS THAT MUCH OF THE INTERVIEW WITH MAXWELL SEEMS TO BE AN ATTEMPT TO SUPPORT THE NARRATIVE THAT, SURPRISE, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND DONALD TRUMP HAVE BEEN PUSHING, NOTHING TO SEE HERE. NEVER SAW
[19:32]THE PRESIDENT IN ANY TYPE OF MASSAGE SETTING. I NEVER WITNESSED THE PRESIDENT IN ANY INAPPROPRIATE SETTING IN ANY WAY. THE PRESIDENT WAS NEVER INAPPROPRIATE WITH ANYBODY. IN THE TIME THAT I WAS WITH HIM,
[19:47]THERE'S ONE WORD THAT COMES TO MIND WITH DONALD TRUMP, OF COURSE IT'S GENTLEMAN. HE WAS A GENTLEMAN IN ALL RESPECTS, BUT HERE'S THE THING, MAXWELL DID NOT STOP THERE. SHE WENT ON TO TELL THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES THAT SHE,
[20:00]THE LADY WHO WAS CHARGED WITH CONSPIRING WITH EPSTEIN WHO ABUSED MINORS, WHO'S CONVICTED OF THAT AND DOING TIME FOR IT, THAT SHE GET THIS READY FOR THIS, THAT SHE NEVER SAW JEFFREY EPSTEIN ENGAGE IN ANYTHING THAT WAS NONCONSENSUAL.
[20:16]AT SOME POINT HE WAS GETTING MASSAGES 7 DAYS A WEEK, SOMETIMES MULTIPLE MASSAGES A DAY. WOMEN HAVE SAID THAT THAT WERE THERE THAT THEY SAY THEY WERE THERE GIVING HIM MASSAGES SAID THAT.
[20:30]THAT THOSE INCLUDED SOME SORT OF SEXUAL CONDUCT, HOWEVER YOU DEFINE THAT IN THE BROADEST SENSE, NOT JUST A TRADITIONAL MASSAGE REGULARLY. SO, WHAT ARE YOU?
[20:47]WHAT DID YOU SEE AND HEAR AT THE TIME? WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE YOU IN YOUR MIND WITH WHAT HAPPENED? SO. I SAW EPSTEIN WITH.
[21:01]WOMEN, I WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS HE WOULD HAVE. WOMEN AROUND HIM. SO ANYTIME I SAW ANYBODY WITH HIM, THEY WERE HAPPY TO BE WITH HIM.
[21:14]I NEVER SAW AN AGGRESSIVE MOVE. I NEVER SAW ANYTHING THAT WAS NONCONSENSUAL. DID YOU SEE HIM ENGAGED IN SEXUAL CONDUCTSAGES?
[21:28]YOU COULD DEFINE SEXUAL CONDUCT AS IN, I DID SEE WOMEN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW. LESS THAN NORMALLY CLAD FOR MASSAGE, BUT ESPECIALLY ON THE ISLAND WHERE THEY WOULD BE IN A BIKINI OR POSSIBLY EVEN TOPLESS,
[21:41]I DID SEE THAT. NOPE. DID YOU GET ALL THAT? DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING? WOMEN AROUND THEM ALL THE TIME BUT SEEMED HAPPY TO BE THERE. EVERYTHING WAS CONSENSUAL. JEFFREY EPSTEIN, THE NEW YORK FINANCIER, JEFFREY EPSTEIN WITH THE ISLAND.
[21:55]JEFFREY EPSTEIN NEVER VIOLATED THE CONSENT OF THE WOMEN AROUND HIM, THE GIRLS AROUND HIM, I MEAN SOME OF THEM WERE 16, RIGHT? THAT'S THE TESTIMONY, OR AT LEAST NOT THE TESTIMONY, THAT'S WHAT
[22:08]GILLEN MAXWELL, THE WOMAN WHO HELPED RECRUIT THE VICTIMS, I MEAN WE CAN GO CHAPTER AND VERSE ABOUT WHAT SHE DID, HOW SHE SHOWED THEM ACCORDING TO THESE VICTIMS, HOW TO SUBMIT THEMSELVES TO JEFFREY EPSTEIN,
[22:21]HOW SHE THREATENED THEM IF THEY CAME FORWARD. THE VICTIMS WHO SAY IT WAS ANYTHING BUT CONSENSUAL, THAT HE WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTING HIM, THAT HE WAS RAPING 16 YEAR OLD GIRLS. GLENN MAXWELL SAYS,
[22:36]NEVER ANYTHING CONSENSUAL AND ALSO DONALD TRUMP WAS A PERFECT GENTLEMAN, BOTH THOSE IN THE SAME INTERVIEW. IN ADDITION TO THOSE INTERVIEW RECORDINGS TODAY, THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE RECEIVED ANOTHER TROVE OF DOCUMENTS RELATED TO THE EPSTEIN
[22:50]CASE THAT IT SUBPOENAED NEARLY 3 WEEKS AGO. WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING THAT IN JUST A MOMENT. NOW IT'S CLEAR FROM THE DELAY AND THEN I THINK THE TIMING ON THIS BIG NEWS DAY ON A FRIDAY IN AUGUST THAT DONALD TRUMP IS TRYING TO DO ANYTHING TO DISTRACT FROM EPSTEIN.
[23:02]WHICH INCLUDES PUTTING AMERICAN TROOPS, ARMED AMERICAN TROOPS WE LEARNED TODAY ON THE GROUND IN AMERICAN CITIES AND GOING AFTER HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES AND TRUMPETING THE MOVE ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY ALL HIS FACTOTUMS. HIS MADE FOR TV ATTEMPT AT AN AUTHORITARIAN TAKEOVER
[23:18]JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE CONSUMING THE NEWS CYCLE AFTER NEWS CYCLE. IT IS ALSO VERY REAL AND EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. IT'S NOT JUST A SHOW OR A DISTRACTION. IT'S THE REAL THING. THEY ARE SENDING TROOPS INTO THE STREETS.
[23:31]THEY ARE OCCUPYING THE CAPITAL. THEY HAVE A SECRET POLICE FORCE THAT IS SCOOPING PEOPLE UP, THAT IS DEMANDING PEOPLE'S ID. THEY HAVE AN ENEMY'S LIST. THEY HAVE THE STATE SECURITY APPARATUS TARGETING POLITICAL OPPONENTS. IN FACT,
[23:45]WE'RE BEING TOLD THE FBI SEARCH ON JOHN BOLTON'S HOME AND OFFICE WAS PART OF A NATIONAL SECURITY INVESTIGATION IN SEARCH OF CLASSIFIED RECORDS, A SOURCE FAMILIAR WITH THE MATTER CONFIRMED TO NBC NEWS. BUT SINCE HIS TIME IN THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BOLTON HAS COME OUT AS A VOCAL CRITIC OF THE PRESIDENT.
[24:00]HE APPEARED ON TV JUST LAST WEEK TALKING ABOUT THE FEAR OF RETRIBUTION OVER HIS WILLINGNESS TO SPEAK OUT. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY ON HIS ENEMIES LIST, AT LEAST CASH PATEL'S ENEMIES LIST.
[24:15]ARE YOU WORRIED THAT THEY'RE GOING TO COME AFTER YOU IN SOME WAY? HE'S HINTED AT IT BEFORE. I THINK HE'S ALREADY COME AFTER ME AND SEVERAL OTHERS IN WITHDRAWING THE PROTECTION THAT WE HAD FOR. FROM THE IRANIANS FOR THE ATTACK ON QASEM SOLEIMANI.
[24:29]SO I THINK, AND I SAID IN THE IN THE UH NEW FORWARD TO THE PAPERBACK EDITION OF MY BOOK, I THINK IT IS A RETRIBUTION PRESIDENCY. THERE'S LITTLE DONALD TRUMP HATES MORE THAN PEOPLE HE PERCEIVES TO HAVE TURNED ON HIM, SO HE'S WIELDING THE POWER OF THE STATE
[24:42]TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF JOHN BOLTON, RIGHT, TO INSTILL FEAR AND SEEK RETRIBUTION. IT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A STRONG MAN OR DICTATOR LOSE POPULARITY AND CONTROL, IS THAT THEY GROW MORE DEPENDENT. ON FEAR AND FORCE TO MAINTAIN POWER.
[25:02]WE BEGIN THIS HOUR WITH THE OTHER MAJOR BREAKING NEWS TODAY. THE TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MAKING WHAT APPEARS TO BE A MAJOR ESCALATION TODAY IN ITS TARGETING OF DONALD TRUMP'S CRITICS. EARLY THIS MORNING, THE FBI CONDUCTED A SEARCH THE MARYLAND HOME OF JOHN BOLTON.
[25:18]HE IS TRUMP'S FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER TURNED TRUMP CRITIC. AGENTS ALSO LATER APPEARED AT BOLTON'S OFFICE BUILDING IN WASHINGTON DC. A SOURCE CLOSE TO BOLTON TELLS NBC NEWS IT WAS RETRIBUTION,
[25:31]PURE AND SIMPLE. ACCORDING TO THE FBI, THE SEARCHES WERE COURT AUTHORIZED, AND SOURCES TELL NBC NEWS THAT THEY WERE PART OF A NATIONAL SECURITY INVESTIGATION RELATED TO THE HANDLING OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS AND POTENTIAL INSTANCES OF THOSE
[25:44]DOCUMENTS BEING USED IN LEAKS TO THE MEDIA. WE DO NOT KNOW THE SPECIFIC ALLEGATIONS AGAINST BOLTON, BUT HERE'S WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AND THE MAN NOW IN THE CROSSHAIRS OF HIS ADMINISTRATION. AFTER LEAVING HIS POST,
[25:56]BOLTON QUICKLY BECAME AN OUTSPOKEN CRITIC OF HIS FORMER BOSS. I DON'T THINK HE'S FIT FOR OFFICE. I DON'T THINK HE HAS THE COMPETENCE TO CARRY OUT THE JOB. THERE REALLY ISN'T ANY GUIDING PRINCIPLE THAT I WAS ABLE TO DISCERN OTHER THAN.
[26:11]WHAT'S GOOD FOR DONALD TRUMP'S REELECTION. WHAT HE WAS CAPABLE OF WAS ON A DAILY BASIS DOING SOMETHING MORE AND MORE OUTRAGEOUS THAN HE HAD DONE THE DAY BEFORE, ALL TO THE SAME END OF STAYING IN POWER.
[26:25]I THINK WHEN YOU CHALLENGE THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF, THE WAY TRUMP HAS DONE, THAT IS UN-AMERICAN. VERY QUICKLY, DO YOU AGREE WITH MARK MILLEY THAT TRUMP IS A FASCIST? I DON'T THINK HE'S SMART ENOUGH TO HAVE AN IDEOLOGY.
[26:40]THE MEMOIR ABOUT HIS TIME IN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE, A BOOK THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WAS DESPERATE TO KEEP UNDER WRAPS. DONALD TRUMP ACCUSED BOLTON OF LEAKING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, BUT A COURT REJECTED THOSE CLAIMS. THAT DID NOT STOP THEM FROM LAUNCHING A CRIMINAL PROBE INTO THE MATTER.
[26:54]THAT PROBE WAS LATER SHUT DOWN UNDER PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN'S JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. ON THAT, A FORMER DOJ OFFICIAL TELLING NBC NEWS, ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND INVESTIGATED DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN,
[27:08]HIS BOSS. TO SUGGEST THAT ANY DECISION WAS MADE BASED ON POLITICAL REASONS IS ABSURD. DOJ ALWAYS MADE DECISIONS BASED ON THE FACTS AND THE LAW, AND NOT FOR POLITICAL REASONS. UPON RETURNING TO OFFICE, TRUMP HAS MADE CLEAR HIS DESIRE FOR
[27:21]REVENGE AGAINST HIS FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, REVOKING BOLTON'S SECURITY DETAIL ON DAY ONE, A SECURITY DETAIL HE WAS GRANTED BECAUSE OF THREATS HE FACED FROM IRAN. HERE'S WHAT BOLTON HAD TO SAY ABOUT BEING A TARGET
[27:34]OF DONALD TRUMP AND THE ADMINISTRATION EARLIER THIS MONTH. WE'RE ABOUT TO TALK ABOUT TRUMP'S RETRIBUTION CAMPAIGN WE'RE SEEING AT THE FBI AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY ON HIS ENEMY'S LIST,
[27:48]AT LEAST KASH PATEL'S ENEMIES LIST. OTHERS IN WITHDRAWING THE PROTECTION THAT WE HAD FOR
[28:07]AND I SAID IN THE NEW FORWARD TO THE PAPERBACK EDITION OF MY BOOK, AND THAT IS WHERE WE START THIS HOUR WITH MSNBC JUSTICE AND INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT KEN DELANY AND ALSO WITH US, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE AT THE FBI MICHAEL FEINBERG,
[28:23]WRITER AND EDITOR FOR PROTECT DEMOCRACY. AMANDA CARPENTER IS HERE, AS WELL AS ANDREW WEISSMAN. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US, MICHAEL. LET'S START WITH YOU. HELP US UNDERSTAND THIS IN NORMAL TIMES FROM A PROCESS PERSPECTIVE,
[28:35]WHAT IS REQUIRED TO GET A WARRANT FOR A SEARCH LIKE THIS? THEY ESSENTIALLY NEED TO SHOW TO A FEDERAL MAGISTRATE JUDGE THAT THE FRUITS OR EVIDENCE OF A CRIME ARE AT THE FACILITY THEY ARE SEEKING TO SEARCH.
[28:50]WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS CASE IS IN MEETING THAT REQUIREMENT, THE PROSECUTORIAL AND INVESTIGATIVE TEAMS NORMALLY NEED TO OVERCOME WHAT WE WOULD CALL A STALENESS CONCERN. IN OTHER WORDS,
[29:04]THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF UP TO-DATE INFORMATION. THAT SHOWS THE FRUITS OF THE CRIME ARE AT THE RESIDENCE THAT COMES FROM THE VERY RECENT PAST. GIVEN THAT THIS MATTER WAS LAST INVESTIGATED IN 2020,
[29:19]I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW THEY GOT THERE. AMANDA CARPENTER, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF A STALENESS CONCERN THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN OVERRIDDEN BY THIS FBI? I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IN REALITY
[29:33]IS CASH PATEL'S ENEMIES LIST IN ACTION, THIS IS THE WEAPONIZATION OF THAT LIST. WE CAN GO THROUGH THE PROCEDURES, WHAT NESITATES HAVING A WARRANT,
[29:46]BUT LOOK AT JOHN BOLTON'S CAREER. HE IS A MAN WHO IS ACTING, YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH HIM, A LOT OF PEOPLE DO, BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT HE HASN'T ACTED AS A GOOD FAITH CIVIL SERVANT. THROUGHOUT HIS TIME
[29:58]IN WASHINGTON. HE MADE A DECISION TO SERVE TRUMP FAITHFULLY. A LOT OF PEOPLE DISAGREED WITH THAT DECISION, BUT HE WAS A REPUBLICAN, HE HAD FOREIGN POLICY VIEWS, AND HE WAS GONNA GO INTO THAT WHITE HOUSE AND SERVE TRUMP.
[30:11]AND WHEN THEY CAME TO POLICY DISAGREEMENTS, BOLTON LEFT AND HE DID WHAT WE ASK ALL PEOPLE OF PRINCIPLE TO DO. IF YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING. AND HE WENT AND HE TALKED ABOUT HIS DISAGREEMENTS WITH TRUMP
[30:27]AND WHY HE THOUGHT TRUMP WAS NOT FIT TO SERVE ANOTHER TERM, AND FOR THAT REASON, DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN ON A CONTINUED PRESSURE CAMPAIGN TO SILENCE HIM. BEFORE THIS,
[30:40]THIS IS JUST THE LATEST ESCALATION OF IT. YOU BROUGHT UP HIM HAVING HIS SECURITY REMOVED. HE NEEDED THAT SECURITY BECAUSE OF THE SERVICE THAT HE DID FOR TRUMP. THEY TRIED TO STOP THIS BOOK. THEY TRIED TO SEIZE THE PROFITS FROM IT. THEN CASH PATEL,
[30:52]WHO NOW RUNS THE FBI, PUT A TARGET ON HIS BACK AS LONG AS WELL WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE. AND NOW YOU'RE SEEING THE EXPRESSION OF THAT. AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD. SEE IT, DOWNPLAY IT AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT. I,
[31:06]JOHN BOLTON TALKS TO THE MEDIA QUITE FREQUENTLY. I EAGERLY ANTICIPATE WHAT KIND OF STATEMENT HE IS GOING TO MAKE, BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE WAYS OF WASHINGTON AND TO THINK THAT HE WOULD JUST WILLY-NILLY DISRESPECT WHAT WAS BEING ASKED OF HIM, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE'S COOPERATED
[31:19]WITH OTHER INVESTIGATIONS AND TRY TO GET THIS BOOK PUBLISHED IN A GOOD FAITH WAY WITH. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BEFORE THIS IS ALL JUST VERY HARD TO ACCEPT. THERE'S A LOT THAT I WANT TO UNPACK THERE, BUT I WANT TO GO TO KEN DELANY, WHO I BELIEVE IS AT JOHN BOLTON'S HOME IN BETHESDA,
[31:33]MARYLAND. KEN, WE HAVE SOME NEW REPORTING. A SOURCE FAMILIAR CONFIRMING TO NBC NEWS THAT CIA DIRECTOR JOHN RADCLIFFE PROVIDED FBI DIRECTOR CASH PATEL THE INTELLIGENCE THAT WAS THE BASIS FOR THIS SEARCH.
[31:46]WHAT MORE CAN YOU TELL US? ALICIA, AND THAT'S WHY THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER IT RELATES TO THE BOOK, IT'S REALLY NOT CLEAR THAT IT DOES ACTUALLY, AND THE WHOLE STALENESS QUESTION THIS REPORTING SHEDS NEW LIGHT ON THAT ISSUE IF IN FACT IT'S TRUE,
[32:00]AND THAT'S A BIG IF, BUT THE NEW YORK TIMES IS REPORTING AND OUR COLLEAGUE ANDREW MITCHELL HAS CONFIRMED THAT WE'RE BEING TOLD THAT THIS WARRANT WAS BASED IN PART ON INTELLIGENCE GATHERED BY THE CIA OVERSEAS AND PASSED BY CIA DIRECTOR JOHN RADCLIFFE
[32:17]TO THE JUSTICE. DEPARTMENT AND THE NEW YORK TIMES IS ALSO REPORTING THAT THIS IS ABOUT LEAKS TO THE MEDIA THAT HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS, NOT 5 YEARS AGO WHEN JOHN BOLTON WAS PREPARING HIS BOOK.
[32:29]SO AGAIN, ALL THIS THIS IS REPORTING FROM ANONYMOUS SOURCES. EVENTUALLY WE'LL SEE THE AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE AND WE'LL UNDERSTAND WHAT LED UP TO THIS SEARCH. AND THE PROBLEM OF COURSE IS WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING HERE IS ABSOLUTELY THE CASE.
[32:42]THIS FBI, THIS CIA HAS BEEN COMPLETELY POLITICIZED. THEY'VE BEEN SAYING. THE LEADERS OF THESE INSTITUTIONS HAVE BEEN SAYING THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE ON A REGULAR BASIS ABOUT THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION, ABOUT THE INVESTIGATIONS INTO DONALD TRUMP. AND SO THE QUESTION IS CAN ANYTHING THEY SAY BE TRUSTED,
[32:58]BUT YOU DO HAVE THIS THIRD PARTY INVOLVED HERE, WHICH IS A MAGISTRATE JUDGE WHO HAD TO LOOK AT THIS EVIDENCE KNOWING THAT EVERY WORD OF THIS AFFIDAVIT WILL BE SCRUTINIZED AT SOME POINT AND APPROVED THIS SEARCH WARRANT.
[33:10]THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST INTRUSIVE THINGS THE FBI CAN DO ASIDE FROM TAKE SOMEONE'S LIBERTY AWAY AND SO THEY'VE APPROVED. AND FBI AGENTS WENT OUT AND THEY SPENT 7.5 HOURS IN JOHN BOLTON'S HOME TODAY. I WAS OUTSIDE FOR MOST OF THE DAY AND THEN THEY EMERGED WITH
[33:25]SEVERAL BOXES OF MATERIAL ALONG WITH COMPUTER EQUIPMENT AND OTHER KINDS OF THINGS. WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHETHER THERE'S ANYTHING TO THIS OR WHETHER THIS DOES SMACK OF RETRIBUTION BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
[33:38]SO THE POINT, ANDREW, THAT BOTH AMANDA AND KEN HAVE MADE IN DIFFERENT WAYS ABOUT RETRIBUTION, LET'S REMIND EVERYONE WHAT HAPPENED AROUND THE. LAGO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES. THEY TRIED MULTIPLE TIMES TO GET THINGS BACK FROM TRUMP AFTER HE LEFT OFFICE.
[33:52]HE DID NOT COMPLY. SO THEN YOU HAD THE FBI GO IN. THEY FOUND ABOUT 100 DOCUMENTS THAT WERE MARKED AS CLASSIFIED, INCLUDING NATIONAL DEFENSE INFORMATION, SOME OF THE RECORDS CONCERNED MILITARY CAPABILITIES OF OTHER COUNTRIES. IF I AM UNDERSTANDING THIS CORRECTLY,
[34:07]THE MAN WHO STORED CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS IN HIS BATHROOM AND ON A BALLROOM STAGE IS NOW SEARCHING ANOTHER MAN'S HOME, HIS CRITIC LOOKING FOR CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS. IS THAT RIGHT? THAT IS WHAT IT APPEARS,
[34:20]TO BE, AND, FIRST, THE COMPARISON TO MAR A LAGO IS JUST, IT'S PEOPLE HAVE SAID IT'S, IT'S APPLES AND ORANGES OR MAYBE IT'S LIKE APPLES AND RABBITS. IT'S JUST COMPLETELY DIFFERENT,
[34:34]BECAUSE JOHN BOLTON, THE REPORTING IS, HAD NO IDEA THAT THIS WAS GONNA HAPPEN, SO THERE WAS NO EFFORT TO OBTAIN THESE. DOCUMENTS EITHER VOLUNTARILY OR THROUGH A SUBPOENA. THAT'S TYPICALLY WHEN I WAS A PROSECUTOR,
[34:47]YOU, YOU WOULD DO THAT IN VARIOUS VARIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU TRUSTED THE PERSON AND YOU THOUGHT THAT WOULD WORK. IN THE MAR A LAGO CASE, THAT WAS THE VERY LAST THING THAT THEY WERE SORT OF FORCED TO DO BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE WAS WORKING.
[35:02]SO THIS IS A VERY DIFFERENT SITUATION. I DO WANT TO JUST COMMENT ON SOMETHING THAT KEN SAID, WHICH IS WE MAY NEVER ACTUALLY SEE THE AFFIDAVIT THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE MAGISTRATE JUDGE. AND SO WE'RE NOW HAVING THIS PUBLIC DISCUSSION
[35:18]ABOUT THIS SEARCH, WHICH REALLY SHOULD NOT HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY. THIS IS WHERE YOU HAVE JOHN BOLTON SUFFERING THE OPPROBRIUM OF THE INVESTIGATION, BUT UNLESS THERE'S A CRIMINAL CASE THAT COMES.
[35:31]OUT OF IT, THAT UNDERLYING WARRANT THAT THE, THE AFFIDAVIT THAT'S SUBMITTED BY THE FBI TO THE MAGISTRATE IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT JOHN BOLTON MAY NEVER SEE AND WE MAY NEVER SEE.
[35:46]AND THAT'S BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO, THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE HERE THAT IS BEING VIOLATED IS THAT UM JOHN BOLTON, LIKE ANY AMERICAN UM OR ANY PERSON WHO IS SUBJECT TO THE CRIMINAL LAW.
[35:58]HE IS ENTITLED TO HAVE THAT KEPT UNDER WRAPS UNLESS AND UNTIL A GRAND JURY DECIDES TO INDICT. AND THAT HASN'T HAPPENED YET. RIGHT NOW, ALL WE HAVE IS A PUBLIC RECORD
[36:12]THAT AMANDA HAS TALKED ABOUT OF ACTUAL RETRIBUTION, AND WE HAVE NO CONTRARY EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE. NOW, TWO THINGS COULD BE TRUE. THERE COULD BE RETRIBUTION, AND JOHN BOLTON COULD HAVE DONE.
[36:25]SOMETHING WRONG, AND BOTH OF THOSE COULD BE TRUE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO POINT TO. WE, IT IS TRUE THAT WE KNOW A MAGISTRATE AND POTENTIALLY TWO MAGISTRATES HAVE SIGNED WARRANTS BECAUSE THERE WAS A SEARCH,
[36:37]AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AT HIS HOME AND IN HIS OFFICE, WHICH ARE IN TWO SEPARATE LOCATIONS AND WOULD REQUIRE TWO SEPARATE MAGISTRATES. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THERE, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS ARE, AND JOHN FULTON WAS ENTITLED TO THAT ALL BEING KEPT UNDER WRAP.