[0:00]So we are collecting memories of the last state visit of US President Donald Trump. >> The last time Donald Trump touched down in our fair country for a royal visit. >> Yes. Because it was he was in Scotland.
[0:11]>> That's right. Not the last time that he was here, but it was the last time that he was here for a full boona with the tiaras and the state dinner and the trumpets and the actually we don't know if there's going to be the golden
[0:22]carriage. We'll have to wait and see this week. But yeah, I remember that. It was a boiling hot summer of 2019 and it was an incredible uh sort of from a journalistic point of view because
[0:33]Donald Trump had really embarrassed Theresa May by giving a disobliging interview to the Sun newspaper almost exactly as he was touching down in the
[0:43]country which caused huge embarrassment. I have a personal memory also of being at Checkers for that joint press conference. You know, the big moment when the two leaders approached the podium and it was boiling hot and we'd
[0:54]all been sitting sort of kettled in the very beautiful gardens at Checkers, the prime minister's country retreat, waiting for the moment where the leaders were going to come and address us and then take a few questions. And I
[1:05]realized I had a wardrobe malfunction. Uh, and I'm not going to go into any more detail, but happily a camera man was there with a very
[1:14]obliging and useful roll of black gaffer tape to help me with said moment. >> So, it's being left to our imagination, but basically industrial strength tape cured your wardrobe. >> It's all that holds me together. That's all we need to know.
[1:26]>> It's all that holds me together. We are reunited with Henry this weekend. Harrah. Lovely to have you back with us. >> It's great to be back. >> Do you have memories of that time? I've never had a wardrobe malfunction in the
[1:37]presence of a US president. >> There's still time. >> But well, exactly. I'm going to be a checkers on Thursday. So, let's see. Uh I mean, the thing that I think is worth remembering is Donald Trump has
[1:48]been to the UK as president quite a few times. Okay, this is his second state visit. I was thinking back to um a memory I have of being at Blenhan Palace when Theresa May was meeting Donald
[1:59]Trump and this incredible sunset over Bennham Palace as Donald Trump arrived and uh a bag piper was playing and then I realized that wasn't part of that state visit. That was a visit he took uh
[2:10]he conducted in 2018. And I do think especially given what's been in the news this week, it's worth remembering Donald Trump initially had a very good relationship with Theresa May. And
[2:21]people keep saying, "Wow, what an amazing relationship Karma has forged with him." And he has. But your relationship with Donald Trump is really good until it suddenly isn't. And I just think that is worth remembering that
[2:33]there is still an awful lot of jeopardy here for Karen. >> That Gavin Barwell said that on BH today on Radio 4 who helped organize that visit. He went off script. He gave this
[2:44]interview anti- Theresa May's Brexit plans. And he says this news conference with Kier Stalmer and Donald Trump this week, the joint news conference is full of jeopardy. Shall we get underway with Sunday?
[2:55]>> We should >> newscast. >> Hey, it's Laura in the studio. >> Patty in the studio >> and Henry at home. Now yesterday, Paddyy, you quite rightly mentioned
[3:05]something that has not been very much discussed during this whole saga about Peter Mandlesson and Jeffrey Epstein and who knew what and when and all the political embarrassments for Karmmer,
[3:14]the victims of Epstein's crimes. And we were lucky enough yesterday, late yesterday, to be able to speak to the family of Virginia.
[3:25]Now, newscasters being a clever bunch will no doubt all remember that she had become Jeffrey Epstein's most prominent accuser. She alleged that she was trafficked by
[3:37]him and Galen Maxwell to Prince Andrew. As you said yesterday, he reached an out of court settlement with her even though he's never accepted any wrongdoing.
[3:48]And she died in April. But her work and her campaigning continues with other survivors of Epstein, carrying on the fight to get more
[3:58]documents released to try to get the full truth and nothing but the truth about exactly what happened. But we were lucky enough to speak to her brother and her sister-in-law from Colorado
[4:08]yesterday and they had a very clear view about whether or not Peter Mandelen should ever have been given the job in Washington. Now, before we hear that, it's important to say he never met
[4:20]Virginia Defra. He has been adamant. There's no suggestion that he was ever offered introductions to women by Epstein. He's always said that he knew
[4:29]nothing of the abuse that was going on. Nonetheless, the family of Virginia Jafrey are absolutely adamant that given his well-known links to Epstein that he
[4:40]should never have been given such a prominent position by the prime minister. I want to first and and foremost commend the you know the UK for taking action following that. Um I think
[4:52]you know that's a step in the right direction but to to me it's not nearly enough. >> But that initial decision made by the government to put him in place when people knew about their friendship. What
[5:03]do you think of that? I think why does it take us to have to pull out the skeletons like for people to be held accountable?
[5:14]Like our governments have allowed these people to hold their status and their title, you know, without shame. And so
[5:23]part of me is like, we should have done something sooner. He should have never been given that title. And there are a lot of people that are actively out in
[5:32]our governments, in our in in politics, in our financial systems that are actively holding their titles and positions and we have to put the
[5:43]spotlight on them. >> Sky, do you think he should have been given the job in the first place? >> Absolutely not. He should not have been given the position in the first place. It speaks to how deep the corruption is
[5:54]in our systems. We should say that Lord Mandlesson has always said that he didn't know anything about the abuse that was going on. He has also said in
[6:04]recent years that he regretted their friendship very much. >> I think anybody that's in that book, including President Trump, should be
[6:13]completely and 100% investigated and if it is found, then should be held to the fullest extent of the law. >> The book that he references there, just to be clear, is the birthday book that
[6:23]emerged last week. Feels like ages ago already, doesn't it? That contained messages from dozens of Epstein's friends, some of them wealthy and powerful. We should say there is no suggestion at the moment that any of
[6:35]them ought to be investigated or connected to any of the wrongdoing around the Epstein case, but it does
[6:43]just strike you and I suppose in a way it kind of chills your bones to hear from the families of people who suffered at the hands of him. It's very clear to
[6:55]some people and it was not clear to the British prime minister that seems to be the case. They seem Daniel Street's taking the view that it was a risk worth taking. I spoke for BH to Emily Mateless
[7:06]who said that watching Peter Mandlesson on Harry Cole's program Harry Cole Saves the World from the Sun reminded her of her news night interview with Prince
[7:15]Andrew that the s this got to jump the Rubicon of how you remained a friend with a convicted pedophile. That's the question, Henry. Um, where is this leading for Downing Street? Have they
[7:27]got their story straight? >> Well, they have, but the problem is that their story involves Kier Starmer knowing that Lord Mandlesson had
[7:37]remained friends with Jeffrey Epstein after his initial conviction and deciding that what he knew he was willing to overlook because he wanted Peter Mandlesson to be the UK's
[7:49]ambassador to Washington. That is the problem for Downing Street is that they have their story straight. Although there are some, you know, wrinkles about what extra things they knew and when and whether they asked the right questions
[7:59]and so on. But fundamentally they are admitting and they have to admit this cuz it was in the public domain >> that Kier Star overlooked a certain
[8:10]level of postconviction friendship between Lord Mandlesson and Jeffrey Epstein in order to appoint him British ambassador to Washington. That is a difficult thing to admit but they can't
[8:20]do anything other than admit it. >> And how much damage do you think has already been done by this in terms of the prime minister's standing among his
[8:31]own tribe. Um and I suppose how much misery for them on this may there yet be to remain. It was interesting we had in the last 24 hours and newscasters do let
[8:42]us know what you think too. We had a lot of viewers in the last 24 hours getting in touch to say this is a shambles. I'm paraphrasing, but including one particular Labor voter who stood sticks
[8:54]in my mind called Sonia who wrote in to say are we to also have this party and I'm a loyal Labor voter be mired in sleas and scandal and there is a sense of sort of disbelief and that elusive
[9:05]thing of cutth through with this story. You just think how on earth have they got themselves into this position. So Henry, first of all, in terms of the Labor tribe, how much damage do you think it's doing? Because for me, it
[9:16]feels that this is in a way a great occasion for a lot of people who've been boiling up to be quite rude about Karma anyway. And it's kind of given them that
[9:27]opportunity with a ribbon tied up round it. >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think it's damaging in and of itself clearly for all the reasons that you guys discussed yesterday and I'm sure
[9:38]we'll be discussing for days to come. But it also has become um a moment that has crystallized for so many people within the parliamentary
[9:49]Labour party frustrations they already had. I mean I have to say I think before the craziness of the past fortnite first Angela Raina then Lord Manderson I think it was underappreciated
[10:00]how vulnerable K star's position as leader of the Labour party was beginning to feel. You know, I came back to parliament on, you know, two Mondays ago. It feels like 3,000 Mondays ago,
[10:12]given all that's happened since. And the first two meetings I had with Labour MPs, Labour MPs, mainstream Labour MPs who were generally supportive of their leader, generally supportive of what
[10:23]Karm has done to the Labour Party. Both within about 10 minutes at their behest became conversations about the circumstances in which Karma would be replaced as Labour Party leader. That
[10:34]was before the Angela Raina thing happened. That was before the Peter Mandlesson thing happened. Now, it's true that those who've gone sort of over the top uh and been very publicly critical of Karma over the past couple
[10:46]of weeks and entertain the idea of changing leader are people who are, you know, already extremely dissatisfied with him. But I think those people being public is a sign that those who are in
[10:56]private are actually reaching boiling point as well. There's sort of a ratio, isn't there, in politics that if however many people say something publicly, how many people are saying it public saying it privately. You know, we could come up
[11:07]with a r a formula. If 10 people say it publicly, then a 100 people are saying it privately. I mean, I don't know what it would be. But always, I think for people who watch politics but aren't
[11:18]lucky enough or mad enough to actually cover it and hang out in parliament, understand that when you see something publicly, you can bet your bottom dollar that loads more people are saying it privately. They don't have the bottle or
[11:28]the agenda to say it in public. >> I risk politics playing with you two. >> Go for it. >> But I was talking to an Labour MP myself
[11:37]>> who told me that I would not believe the number of WhatsApp groups this MP is in. So I am imagining that a lot of this
[11:46]saying in private actually runs the risk of being on a screen grab as well. Henry, you I bet you've seen a few screen grabs in your time. Well, there's
[11:56]all sorts of different caucuses and groups and so on. Um, but it is quite hard to identify at this point the sort of group of people you could take if you
[12:08]sliced and diceed the parliamentary Labour Party a certain way who would be utterly loyal to Kier Stalmer. >> That is the problem for him. I mean, he's actually always had that problem in a way. There's never really been star
[12:18]rights because there's never, in his own words, ever really been such thing as starism. But it means that at moments like this where the government is just
[12:28]on the facts in a very very sticky place, you need to be able to fall back on that bedrock of loyalty. But when the people who were loyal to you originally were only really loyal because you were winning
[12:38]>> and now it looks like you're a loser. Then you're stuck in a very very bad place. >> Let's listen to how Peter Kyle, who's the new business secretary, tried to explain and defend all of this this
[12:49]morning. I mean, he was the lucky minister whose golden ticket came up to be presented to the nation days after a complete and utter mess. We asked him
[13:01]whether or not it was a mistake in the first place to give Peter Mandlesson the job as American ambassador. This is what he said.
[13:11]>> What I believe uh and have always felt is you start with the victims and you end with the victims. When I see the family talking, I feel pain as a result of it.
[13:22]>> And they say clearly it was a mistake. >> And they they say it was a mistake. And retrospectively, if we had known the information we know now, it is highly unlikely that he would have been
[13:33]appointed because what we know now is materially different than what we understood at the time. And that question materially different
[13:44]that's doing a lot of work there because the prime minister did know that Peter Manison stayed friends with Jeffrey Epstein after he was sent to jail. What he's referring to is what was revealed in that cache of emails that we
[13:55]discussed at great length yesterday that included Peter Mandlesson saying that Epstein saying to Epstein that he should push for early release. But it is just seeing Peter Kyle try to defend this. He's somebody who's a very experienced
[14:07]media performer. He's done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of interviews, but it's incredibly uncomfortable for Kier Farmer's colleagues to go out and explain this. And there is a sense,
[14:18]I think, as well starting to build there's a kind of question about where's the prime minister? He hasn't addressed any of this yet. And he's going to have to appear alongside Donald Trump later in the week.
[14:30]And surely he's going to have to address these questions publicly beforehand or else the first opportunity anyone will get to ask him about it will be at the big press conference with Donald Trump.
[14:41]>> Is is the last time we heard from the prime minister still prime minister's questions on Wednesday in which he defended Lord Mandlesson repeatedly under questioning from Kemmy B. I mean, I was I was in the House of Commons
[14:52]chamber sitting in the journalist seats looking at the Labor benches and I think that was the moment that it became clear that this was going to be unsustainable just the sort of pained silence of the
[15:03]Labour MPs behind him. But I do think by the way is worth saying I think it's possible that without Kem Bench for the first time perhaps ever in
[15:13]her leisure of the Conservative party absolutely nailing prime minister's questions. Yeah, I think it's possible, just about possible, Lord Mandlesson would still be in his job today as US ambassador. And I and I think, you know,
[15:25]that has probably been perhaps slightly undertold because, you know, on Wednesday morning, it was not completely obvious that that was the set of six questions that the leader of the
[15:35]opposition ought to go on. I think that was what made Labour MPs realize what a problem this was as well. So I think you know it is a real achievement from a leader who we've discussed many times
[15:46]>> has had many uh prime minister's questions and other instances as leader of the Conservative party where you know she's clearly been failing. >> Well, she's we've been told time and again she's blown it. You come out of prime minister's questions thinking
[15:57]she's working for the Labour party. That's what people have said about her. And then there she goes with the biggest issue with all six questions. And K Starmmer is the barister. M
[16:09]>> he's the one who's nailed Boris Johnson by triangulating him, putting him in a box. That's what lawyers do. If A then B, if B then C. And Kemmy Benedo was
[16:19]seen to have done that to the prime minister. >> And the Tories absolutely have got the bit between their teeth. So Laura Trot, the shadow education secretary, was on the program this morning and she said
[16:30]several times that the Conservatives will use every single technique that they have at their disposal to push for all the documents, to ask the questions, to try everything they've got. and
[16:42]newscasters in parliament. There are quite a few tricks that politicians can use in a very sometimes in a constructive way, sometimes in a politically damaging way, in all sorts
[16:53]of ways to try to force governments to publish information to answer questions. And the Tories are going to absolutely try to hammer the government on this.
[17:03]And we touched on it a bit yesterday. There is a moment when uh in Westminster the wind sort of changes and people feel
[17:15]the scent of a government in distress and they start going after them in an incredibly vigorous way and I feel like Labor has got that problem at the moment
[17:26]because Kier Starmer's critics in the party have something of that feeling around them. Andy Bernham, who we spoke to last week, setting up his new campaign group. Outside the Labor Party,
[17:37]the opposition's parties have got a taste for causing the maximum amount of trouble and they have a damaging issue with which to do it. And I think it
[17:48]might be very unsemly and brutal and rough for the Labor government in the next few weeks. I >> I think that's completely right. And you know some of the parliamentary devices
[17:58]you may well see the opposition parties using to try to get documents out of the government for example were pioneered by a certain Sakir star when he was shadow
[18:08]Brexit sec secret secretary under Jeremy Corbyn. I mean I think there is probably I think one of the things that Peter Kyle said which I think is probably a fair point is that there is something a
[18:18]bit um you know unseemly about opposition parties and us as the media suddenly asking all these questions about Lord Mandlesson's connections to Jeffrey Epstein which were in the public
[18:30]domain when he was appointed which we didn't ask at the time of his appointment and I think that is probably a fair point and we should just note you know that was probably a bit of a miss on the part of the political media not
[18:41]to meion SW1 more generally. >> Yeah. It was a it was a scandal hiding in plain sight. >> Yes. And it had the sense and I would say we had him on the program and didn't ask him about it. That's absolutely
[18:51]true. And it had the feeling at that point of something that he said it was terrible. He'd said he'd regretted it. It was all sort of ancient history. It's events in the US that have brought it
[19:01]back into the public domain. and that cache of emails from Bloomberg that we talked about yesterday that have suddenly put this issue up in lights. But you're right, Henry, it felt like it
[19:12]was sort of business that had been dealt with. And because he'd already apologized, I mean, that's also, as you were saying, Patty, yesterday, our politics does allow people to
[19:22]spectacularly mess up, go away, front it up, go away for a bit, and then come back and start again. It does allow that. Harsh though it is, people are
[19:31]able to sort of be reborn. Um but has been several times himself, >> right? >> But he's now an a declared foe of the prime minister with great political
[19:42]skills uh which he will now employ to put his side which basically he feels he's been hung out to dry because this was on the record and he feels that the
[19:52]Downing Street have answered their concerns with three specific questions. Downing Street has said they feel Peter Manson's been economical with the truth. And we're now facing this call for Lord
[20:03]Mandlesson to lose the first part of that title and be Mr. Mandlesson. >> And the Lib Dems are calling for an independent inquiry after Peter Cow was on this week. We'll see the Tories use
[20:13]try and use every trick in the book uh to try to keep this going and to try to get that all that information out. So I think it feels really very precarious for Downing Street. Although I'm not sure if someone else in the le party
[20:25]suggested that they were kind of in denial about how bad it was. >> I didn't know till today that Lord Mandlesson visited Downing Street during the Angela Raina >> scandal. >> Did you?
[20:37]>> He did. I believe I believe I I broke that news on X at the time. >> Uh he um he he was uh giving a lecture. I mean this is how quickly his you know
[20:48]political career has sort of ended is that he was giving a lecture uh in the UK at the weekend last weekend just last weekend uh and so he visited Downing
[20:58]Street on uh Friday to have a for a pre-planned meeting to run through what he was planning to say in that lecture and then as he was there uh the reshuffle happened around him and and it
[21:09]does sound like you know people solicited his advice on what they should do because at that point he was you know the the the the new Labour Svengali in good standing >> and it will be fascinating to see what
[21:20]happens next. Not just when it comes to Lord Mandlesson and Downing Street, but also the rest of what we expect to be even more fallout and revelations from
[21:29]these Epstein emails. And it's the first time that Sky Roberts and his wife Amanda Virginia Duy's brother and sister-in-law have spoken to the UK
[21:40]press. So, of course, we also wanted to ask them about Prince Andrew, about President Trump, who's also being talked about in the context of the Epstein
[21:51]scandal, and also about how they plan to continue her fight for the justice that she felt was so long denied. you know,
[22:00]she did so many amazing things uh in her lifetime and um she was able to take down some of the most rich and powerful
[22:09]men out there. And so we're very we're still grieving through this process, but we're also so proud of what she was able to do and and we feel that sense of
[22:19]responsibility to want to to make sure that her voice is still here with us and it's with all of the survivors >> and her campaigning over the years
[22:30]helped reveal the network of Epstein's contacts. And we saw when his birthday book was published this week, the extent of those contacts with all those wealthy
[22:42]and powerful people. What went through your mind, Amanda, when you saw that book? >> Oh, it was very hard to read um because it is so very close to us.
[22:53]>> We will continue her fight and we will not stop until we get justice and accountability for her and for all the survivors out there.
[23:03]and everyone listening or watching can hear how proud you are to have been her brother and we're very grateful to you for giving us your time today. Sky and Amanda, thank you so much for speaking
[23:14]to us. >> Thank you. >> Prince Andrew has always denied any wrongdoing. Um he did reach an out of
[23:25]court settlement with Virginia Grey, but we offered him an opportunity to respond to the interview and he didn't give us a response. The White House defended Donald Trump by saying he kicked Epstein
[23:36]out of the club, out of his club for being a creep. Um it's been a huge issue in American politics also, so it may well pop up during the questioning around the state visit. But we should
[23:46]also say if you or anyone you know has been affected by any of these kinds of issues, there is lots and lots of help out there and you can find it on the BBC action line website
[23:55]bbc.co.uk/actionline. And if you want to watch that interview in its full version, then do go to I player because I think it's very
[24:05]affecting and important to hear from the people who've been hurt by all of this, not just the whole polit political shenanigans that's pulled so many people into it.
[24:15]>> And there is a front page of the mayor on Sunday today implying that there's more damaging email traffic to come out about Prince Andrew. That's what the
[24:27]paper reports. It's not what I'm reporting myself, but we do know because we spoke on newscast to Bloomberg that there's a cache of 18,000
[24:37]emails which they are working through. >> Are you covering the state visit in all its glory, Henry? We see you popping up at all of the events. >> I will be at checkers on Thursday. >> Marvelous. I hope you don't have a
[24:48]wardrobe malfunction. Uh who knows what will have happened by next week because it's possible this week that Kier Summer has a brilliant state visit. all sorts of things are announced and things move on and everything feels much calmer.
[24:59]It's also possible that all the questions at the press conference about Epstein and Donald Trump perhaps is less than impressed with that maybe uh isn't
[25:08]very happy and that relationship is blown off course as he said at his first press conference with Theresa May when some terrible terrible female awful
[25:20]journalist asked the question he said there goes that relationship. >> Yes, he did. He said it to you. He did. >> Well, if only >> he said it to the prime minister when I asked the question. >> I do. I remember that. >> Um, well, if only there was a daily
[25:31]podcast that could handle all the ups and downs of the week ahead. >> What's that then? >> Well, I think someone should invent it. >> Uh, so do join Adam with all the twists
[25:40]and turns for having us. >> They said do join Adam with all the twists. There's no way to talk about our twists and turns. >> Colleagues and don't edit that out because it made me laugh.
[25:51]>> Twists and turns. And thank you very much for listening to Sunday's newscast. >> Goodbye everybody. >> Goodbye. >> Goodbye.