[0:08]All right, we will go on the record.
[0:12]This is a deposition of former President William Jefferson Clinton conducted by the House Committee
[0:17]on Oversight and Government Reform under the authority granted to it pursuant to House
[0:22]Rule 10.
[0:23]Accordingly, House Rule 10 grants the committee broad jurisdiction for the committee to
[0:27]conduct investigations of any matter at any time.
[0:32]On July 23, 2025, the Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement of the Committee
[0:37]on Oversight and Government Reform voted by voice to approve a motion directing the chairman
[0:42]to authorize an issue of subpoena to you for a deposition.
[0:47]On August 5, 2025, Chairman Comer issued a subpoena for President Clinton to appear
[0:52]today for a deposition in furtherance of the committee's investigation into the
[0:57]actions and investigations of Mr. Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Glane Maxwell.
[1:04]I will now enter the original subpoena and corresponding cover letter from August 5, 2025,
[1:11]as well as the additional subpoena from December 15, 2025, determining a new date as Exhibit 1.
[1:21]I will enter as Exhibit 2 the correspondence between Chairman Comer and Council for
[1:26]President Clinton and Secretary Clinton.
[1:29]This correspondence includes the following letters.
[1:32]October 6, 2025, Letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia.
[1:39]October 22, 2025, Letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall.
[1:45]November 3, 2025, Letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia.
[1:51]November 21, 2025, Letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall.
[1:57]December 10, 2025, Letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking
[2:02]member Garcia. December 15th 2025 letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. January 3rd
[2:11]2026 letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and ranking member Garcia. January 8th
[2:17]2026 letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. January 12th 2026 letter from Ashley
[2:24]Callen and David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer. January 13th 2026 letter from William J. Clinton
[2:32]and Secretary 8 Hillary R. Clinton to Chairman Comer encompassing attached declarations under
[2:39]the penalty of perjury of both President Clinton and Secretary Clinton. January 20th 2026 letter
[2:47]from Ashley Callen and David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer. January 31st 2026 letter from Ashley Callen
[2:56]and Catherine M. Turner to Chairman Comer and February 2nd 2026 letter from Chairman Comer to
[3:03]Ashley Callen and Catherine M. Turner. The committee originally noticed the deposition for
[3:10]President Clinton on December 12th 2025. I will mark that notice as exhibit three.
[3:17]I will mark as exhibit four the notice dated December 16th 2025 for a deposition of President
[3:25]Clinton to occur on January 13th 2026. President Clinton did not appear for his deposition
[3:32]on January 13th 2026. I will enter as exhibit five the transcript for the deposition
[3:39]that President Clinton failed to appear for. The committee noticed a committee business meeting
[3:44]on January 14th 2026 to consider the contempt report for President William J. Clinton held on
[3:51]January 21st 2026. I will mark that notice as exhibit six. I will mark as exhibit seven
[4:00]the contempt report for President William J. Clinton voted favorably out of the committee
[4:05]on oversight and government reform on January 21st 2026. I will mark as exhibit eight the final
[4:12]roll call vote sheet favorably reporting the contempt report of President William J. Clinton
[4:17]out of the committee on oversight and government reform on January 21st 2026.
[4:24]The committee noticed today's deposition on February 19th 2026. I will enter the notice
[4:30]for this deposition as exhibit nine. I will enter as exhibit ten the email thread between
[4:36]committee on oversight and government reform staff and council for President Clinton and
[4:40]Secretary Clinton. The email thread confirms the date time and location among other terms
[4:46]of today's deposition. Additionally this email thread clearly states the agreed upon terms
[4:53]including but not limited to video recording no predetermined time limit and scope.
[4:59]The agreed upon scope from the email marked as exhibit 10 is as follows. Pursuant to the
[5:05]committee's investigation into the alleged mismanagement of the federal government's
[5:09]investigation into Mr. Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Elaine Maxwell, the circumstances and
[5:15]subsequent investigations of Mr. Epstein's death, the operation of sex trafficking rings
[5:20]and ways for the federal government to effectively combat them, ways in which Mr. Epstein
[5:25]and Ms. Maxwell sought to curry favor and exercise influence to protect their illegal
[5:30]activities and potential violations of ethics rules related to elected officials. The
[5:36]committee will ask President Clinton and Secretary Clinton all of its questions regarding
[5:42]Jeffrey Epstein and Elaine Maxwell including but not limited to the personal relationships
[5:48]between the Clintons and Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell and the ways in which Mr. Epstein
[5:53]and Ms. Maxwell sought to curry favor and exercise influence as well as the operation
[5:58]of sex trafficking and rings and ways for the federal government to effectively combat them
[6:03]without the proposed limitations on scope sought in your January 31st,
[6:08]2026 letter. Can the witness please state his name for the record?
[6:15]William Jefferson Clinton. Thank you. My name is Jack Emmer and I am the Chief
[6:22]Counsel of Investigations for Chairman Comer. Under the Committee on Oversight and Government
[6:27]Reforms Rules, you are allowed to have counsel present to advise you during this deposition.
[6:33]Do you have counsel representing you in a personal capacity present with you today?
[6:38]I do. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record?
[6:42]David Kendall, Williamson Connolly, LLP. Katherine Turner, Williamson Connolly, LLP.
[6:49]Cheryl Mills, Counselor to the President. Thank you. Starting with the majority,
[6:54]can members of Congress in attendance please identify themselves for the record?
[7:03]James Comer, Chairman of the Committee from Kentucky. Congressman Nancy Mace, South Carolina.
[7:08]Eric Burleson from Missouri. Congressman John Maguire, Virginia Pott.
[7:13]Congresswoman Ana Paulina Luna from Florida's 13th District.
[7:16]William Timmons, South Carolina. William Grosvenor, Wisconsin.
[7:21]Ranking member Garcia, California. Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico.
[7:27]Congressman Seohas Subramanian, Virginia's 11th District.
[7:30]Congresswoman Emily Randall, Luffington State.
[7:32]Congresswoman Yawfman Ansari, Arizona's 3rd District.
[7:35]Congressman Maxwell Frost, Florida's 10th District.
[7:38]Congressman Wesley Bell, Missouri Southern District, St. Louis.
[7:43]James Walkinshaw, Virginia's 11th District.
[7:45]Rob Connick, California's 17th.
[7:50]Lauren Boberg, Colorado's 4th District.
[7:53]Thank you. For the record, starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members
[7:58]please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation?
[8:02]Billy Grant, Deputy Chief Counsel for Investigations for Chairman Comer.
[8:06]Peter Spector, Deputy Director of Oversight for Chairman Comer.
[8:09]Daniel Ashworth, General Counsel for Chairman Comer.
[8:12]Ryan Giacchetti, Chief Counsel for Chairman Comer.
[8:14]Will Harness, Professional Staff Member for Chairman Comer.
[8:18]Hannah Cathy, Professional Staff Member for Chairman Comer.
[8:21]Movin Soto, Commodity Director for Chairman Comer.
[8:25]Olson Ceylon, Counsel for Chairman Comer.
[8:29]Emily Fieraldi, Counsel for Chairman Comer.
[8:32]Mark Moran, Staff Director for Chairman Comer.
[8:39]Austin Hapter, Communications Director for Chairman Comer.
[8:42]Ashley Bidmore, Deputy Staff Director for Chairman Comer.
[8:55]Thank you all. President Clinton, before we begin, I would like to go over the ground rules
[9:00]for this deposition. The questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask
[9:05]questions for an hour, and then the minority will have an opportunity to ask questions for an
[9:10]hour if they choose. To the extent members have questions for the witness, they will be
[9:15]propounded during their sides' respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need to
[9:19]confer with counsel. Your counsel is speaking, and when members or staff are speaking during
[9:24]the opposing sides' rounds of questions. We will alternate back and forth until there are
[9:29]no more questions. Do you understand? Yes.
[9:32]There is a court reporter taking down everything I say and everything you say to make a written
[9:37]record of the interview. For the record to be clear, please wait until the staffer questioning
[9:42]you finishes each question before you begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until
[9:47]you finish your response before proceeding to the next question. Further, to ensure the court
[9:52]reporter can properly record this deposition, please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly.
[9:58]Also, the court reporter cannot record nonverbal answers, such as nodding or shaking your head,
[10:04]so it is important that you answer each question with an audible verbal answer.
[10:08]Do you understand? I do.
[10:11]Exhibits may be entered into the record. Majority exhibits will be identified numerically.
[10:15]Minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically. Do you understand?
[10:20]Yes.
[10:21]We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible,
[10:26]so we will take our time. If you have any questions or do not fully understand the
[10:31]question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add context to, or rephrase our
[10:37]questions. If we ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you were unable
[10:44]to recall the exact words or details, you should testify to the substance of those
[10:48]conversations or events to the best of your recollection. If you recall only a part of a
[10:55]conversation or event, you should give us your best recollection of those events or parts of
[11:00]conversations that you do recall. Do you understand? Yes.
[11:04]You are required by law to answer questions from Congress truthfully.
[11:08]This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this deposition.
[11:12]Do you understand? Yes.
[11:14]If at any time you knowingly make false statements, you could be subject to criminal
[11:19]prosecution, including but not limited to perjury. Do you understand? Yes.
[11:27]This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but also stating that you do not
[11:31]recall or remember something when in fact you do. Do you understand? Yes.
[11:37]Furthermore, you cannot tell half-truths or exclude information necessary to make
[11:41]statements accurate. You are required to provide all information that would make your response
[11:47]truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement.
[11:53]Do you understand? I do.
[11:55]Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful testimony in today's
[11:59]interview? I don't believe so.
[12:05]Please note that if you wish to assert a privilege over any statement today,
[12:09]that assertion must comply with the rules of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
[12:14]Pursuant to that, Committee Rule 16C1 states,
[12:33]For the purposes of this deposition, objections must be stated concisely and
[12:37]in a non-argumentative or non-suggestive manner. If the witness refuses to answer
[12:43]a question to preserve a privilege, the Committee may seek a ruling from the Chair.
[12:48]If the Chair overrules any such objection, the witness shall be ordered to answer.
[12:53]If the witness continues to refuse to answer a question despite being ordered to do so,
[12:58]the witness may be subject to sanction. Do you understand? Yes.
[13:03]Ordinarily, we take a five-minute break at the end of each hour of questioning.
[13:07]But if you need a longer break or a break before that, please let us know and we will
[13:12]be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that there is a pending question,
[13:16]we would ask that you finish answering the question before we take a break.
[13:20]Do you understand? Yes.
[13:23]Finally, I will note for everyone here today that the contents of what we discuss
[13:27]in the deposition today is confidential under the House Deposition Regulation.
[13:32]Under the rules, the Chairman and Ranking Member shall consult before any release of
[13:37]testimony or transcripts, including portions thereof. This means it is a violation of House
[13:43]and Committee rules to disclose the contents of the deposition prior to its official release.
[13:49]For this reason, the marked exhibits that we will use today will remain with the court
[13:53]reporter so that they can go into the official transcript and any copies of those exhibits
[13:59]will be kept at the table or returned to us when we wrap up.
[14:02]Can the reporter please wear in the witness?
[14:09]Do you solemnly declare and affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're
[14:15]about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
[14:17]I do.
[14:20]Do you have any questions before we begin?
[14:22]No.
[14:23]I have a comment before we begin, please. Mr. Chairman, I want to start out by saying,
[14:29]as you know, yesterday there was a photo released and I appreciate you assuring and admonishing
[14:35]the Committee and all of us of our obligations. Obviously, we want to ensure that that doesn't
[14:40]happen again. We've obviously experienced a number of deep fakes that have now been
[14:45]circulating on the web, not because of anything that the Committee did but because
[14:49]of the release of this particular photograph. And for that reason, I would ask two things.
[14:55]One, a reminder to all that the obligation to maintain what is occurring in this room
[15:02]occurs, and two, a release of the video of the Secretary's testimony as soon as possible,
[15:09]ideally today, which was in 24 hours, and the same for the President so that there are not
[15:15]deep fakes that are representing what is happening here when they actually have not.
[15:20]Yeah, and let me say, yesterday that was an unfortunate situation. We had
[15:26]probably two things that shouldn't have happened. The release of the photo as well as
[15:31]Democrat member communicating with the New York Times. So I will again remind everyone
[15:36]to refrain from sending pictures or texting with media outlets outside.
[15:41]Melvin is our videographer and he's doing this today as well as producing the video,
[15:48]so we'll get him out hopefully as soon as possible, hopefully within the next 24 hours.
[15:53]Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. Nothing new.
[15:57]Mr. President, do you wish to provide an opening statement?
[16:00]I do. It's brief. First of all, good morning and welcome to all of you to
[16:08]our hometown. I appreciate you coming here. I'm here today basically for two reasons. First of
[16:19]all, I love my country and the Constitution, and I believe America was built on the idea
[16:29]that no one is above the law, especially presidents, and that we should all live by
[16:37]the same set of rules shaped by the Constitution. Democracy requires every person to play their
[16:45]part and I hope that by being here today we can bring ourselves a little further away from the
[16:51]brink and back to being a country where we can disagree civilly and search for the truth and
[16:58]justice, and that that outweighs the partisan urge for spectacle and point scoring. I will
[17:07]do my part and I hope you'll do yours. The second reason I'm here is that the
[17:14]girls and women whose lives Jeffrey Epstein destroyed deserve not just justice but healing.
[17:22]They've been waiting too long for both. Through my brief acquaintance with Jeffrey Epstein,
[17:29]though it ended years before his crimes came to light, and though I never witnessed during
[17:35]our limited interactions any indication of what was going on, I'm here to offer what little I know
[17:48]so I can do my part to prevent something like this from happening again.
[17:55]I have to say one personal thing. Since Hillary came in yesterday,
[18:02]she had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. Nothing. There's a picture of us both shaking
[18:08]hands with him in a photo line in 1993 at a fundraiser for the White House Historical Association.
[18:17]I don't know how it is under President Trump but when I was there it was about the most
[18:23]non-political operation you can imagine. There were people who loved the White House,
[18:28]who were interested in it, would give a little money every year to do things that needed doing
[18:33]around the house and nothing nearly as extravagant as the ballroom or any of that,
[18:39]just things that had to be done. And neither she nor I remembered shaking his hand all those
[18:50]years ago. So I don't think that was right. On the other hand, I do think you should be
[18:57]talking to me. I think you should have called me. I did take those plane trips with him
[19:03]and you have a right to ask those questions.
[19:07]So I'm glad to be here and I understand what the oath is. I have to be honest with you.
[19:18]You know, I'll be 80 years old if I live until the next birthday. I don't remember everything
[19:23]that happened 24 years ago but I do remember some things and I will tell you what I remember
[19:28]as best I can. We, each of us, owe the victims nothing less than the truth and
[19:38]accuracy. We owe that to the American people and I actually hope that you will be able to
[19:48]come up with some suggestions that will reduce human trafficking and especially focus on
[19:55]underage girls. I hope you'll be able to do that. I know that
[20:03]Hillary talked a little yesterday about what the State Department does and what she pushed
[20:10]on human trafficking and growth. When she was Secretary of State, we had to deal with it
[20:20]and in my foundation, I saw it in Nigeria when Boko Haram was rampaging through the north of
[20:32]Nigeria and we were working there trying to stop deaths from diarrhea for young children
[20:44]and it was interesting. These guys were cold and calculated. They said,
[20:49]oh you don't have to leave because the kids you're helping are younger than the ones we want.
[20:55]They have to be about nine before they're worth anything to us. So this is really important
[21:04]and I will do what I can to make whatever contribution I can. Thank you. Thank you.
[21:15]The time reads 11 28 and the majority's time will begin now. Mr. President, thank you for
[21:27]agreeing to testify today and for your years of service to our country. I want to start
[21:33]from the beginning. When did you first meet Jeffrey Epstein? Well I will try
[21:48]in this testimony and I will point it out when I'm aware there's a picture or something that
[21:56]pre-dates this. There's a picture which shows him shaking hands in the
[22:03]White House Historical Association reception. That was in 1993 but I'm not aware of that. I
[22:08]first remember meeting him when I got on his airplane to take the first trip with my
[22:17]foundation in I think 2002, whatever it was. And to be clear, do you have any reason to
[22:32]believe that you may have met Mr. Epstein prior to becoming president of the United States?
[22:38]Before I became president, no. And you mentioned that your first memory of interacting
[22:48]with Mr. Epstein was on your first trip. Which trip specifically? I'm not sure which one
[22:58]it was. Which one was the first? I took all our parts of four or five trips to Asia and
[23:08]Africa and one to North, Northern Europe on Mr. Epstein's airplane. And once when I was in
[23:20]Florida, I was offered a ride back to New York but I wasn't there having an idea. It was just
[23:28]coincidental that he was there and I think that was fairly early in the process. But I
[23:34]don't remember exactly. I just know that I did. I took one flight back from Florida to
[23:40]New York and all a part of several other I think four or five trips to Africa, Asia
[23:53]and one to Northern Europe. And I want to make sure the record is clear. Is it your
[24:00]testimony today that you have no independent recollection whatsoever of the circumstances
[24:04]of when you first met Mr. Epstein? Objection asked and answer.
[24:10]Yes, I do have a recollection of when I remember meeting him
[24:16]before this trip. I mean on this trip when I took his plane. Mr. President, we're going to
[24:26]discuss more specifics later. But for the record, can you briefly describe the nature
[24:32]and extent of your relationship with Mr. Epstein? Well, sometime after I left the
[24:46]White House, either in late 2001 or early-ish in 2002, I received a call from Larry Summers
[24:55]who had been on my economic team and was later Secretary of Treasury and was then
[25:02]President of Barbara. And he said that he was calling because a man named Jeffrey Epstein
[25:13]who had made a substantial commitment of several million dollars. I think it was ten but whatever
[25:20]it was enough to brain research and that he was a information hungry person and he wanted
[25:32]to spend some time talking to me about economics and politics. And he said he's got
[25:39]this massive airplane and he said he would take you, your staff,
[25:46]your Secret Service detail and anybody else you wanted to bring
[25:50]on the trips that he knew I was planning to set up a global network to provide
[25:59]life-saving AIDS medicine to as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
[26:04]And I should back up and say when I left office, we had done all the
[26:13]preliminary work to set up the global phones on HTV malaria but it was not yet funded.
[26:21]And there were other instruments and institutions who were later founded,
[26:29]including President Bush's PEPFAR program. It had not yet been funded.
[26:35]There were only 200,000 people in the entire developing world who had AIDS medicine,
[26:43]most of them in Brazil which had a big drug operation on its own and in Thailand which
[26:52]also had its own drug population. In Africa there were like 30,000 people or something just
[27:00]next to no people and they were dying like flies. And I thought we had found a way
[27:10]to drastically drive the price down and that if we could drive the price down we could
[27:18]and empower people to administer the medicine right we could save a lot of lives.
[27:26]And I was obsessed with it and I was being helped by a man named Byron
[27:32]Magaziner who had helped us in the White House and whom I had known since we
[27:37]lived as Rhodes Scholars together in the 1960s. So anyway that's why when Larry Summers said
[27:46]this I thought boy this would be great. And so we followed up and took the trips.
[27:58]Mr. President when did your relationship with Mr. Epstein end?
[28:05]When did it end? Well I believe I took my last flight in 2003.
[28:13]And later I became aware of some involvement he had in the first front and global mission
[28:29]but it was much later. Why did your relationship with Mr. Epstein end? Well after a year or two
[28:43]we really picked up a head of steam with this AIDS program and a lot of other people whom I
[28:49]knew better and who really cared about the work came forward and offered to help us
[28:57]provide transportation. And I thought Mr. Epstein was an interesting man but he
[29:07]I didn't think he was really interested in what I was doing.
[29:11]That is he asked all these questions he did ask about economics and politics as he said he
[29:16]would. He never asked me anything untoward it's just that I didn't think I thought I had done
[29:30]what I promised to do and he had done what he promised to do. And I thought I've always
[29:37]over the years with these donors trying not to overstrain my welcome I thought that we'd
[29:44]done enough and then it's time to start working with other people.
[29:54]When did you first learn of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes?
[29:59]I think in 2008 when he was prosecuted I didn't there's nothing that I saw
[30:09]when I was around him that made me realize he was trafficking women and I never.
[30:24]Let's talk about Ghislaine Maxwell. When did you first meet Ghislaine Maxwell?
[30:32]I believe I first met her with him when she was working with him.
[30:39]And what did you understand Ms. Maxwell and what did you understand her relationship to be
[30:47]with Mr. Epstein? I thought he she was sort of his chief of staff or administrator.
[30:55]And you said that you first met Ms. Maxwell with Mr. Epstein is that after you were
[31:03]president? Yeah I don't believe I met her when I was president I couldn't have I
[31:09]met a lot of people you know I don't remember but I definitely remember
[31:15]meeting her on that first flight. Can you briefly for the record describe
[31:22]the nature and extent of your relationship with Ms. Maxwell?
[31:26]Yes it was it lasted longer and was more extensive than my relationship with
[31:38]Mr. Epstein because Ghislaine Maxwell started going with a man named Ted White
[31:47]who was had made a lot of money making the first the sort of
[31:57]design self-designed computers and he was a big supporter of
[32:04]of mine and the foundation before he started seeing Glenn we had been friends and he was
[32:17]interested in particularly in reducing pollution in the oceans and so when she started
[32:28]going with him I would see her from time to time.
[32:35]And when did your relationship with Ms. Maxwell end?
[32:40]I don't think I've seen her in a decade I don't it's been a long time I don't know exactly when.
[32:46]Why did your relationship with Ms. Maxwell end?
[32:52]Well first she moved to Boston I think she had a relationship with a man there and I think
[33:04]they may have married and so she wasn't so much around and she then when it became
[33:21]after 2019 when it became obvious that she was involved too
[33:26]to an extent that I did not know that was the end of it.
[33:34]And I want to make sure the record is clear you mentioned that your relationship with Ms.
[33:38]Maxwell was more extensive than that of Mr. Epstein.
[33:42]Well it lasted longer yes.
[33:44]Okay when when do you have any recollection of what year it would have ended?
[33:50]No but you know but when she was with Ted White she was when we were kicking off CGI.
[34:00]She was very interested in that and she participated but I don't remember
[34:09]I don't know it's been 10-12 years since I saw her I don't remember when the last time was.
[34:15]Thank you.
[34:16]Thank you.
[34:19]I am going to ask you some baseline questions regarding who you communicated with and about
[34:23]what.
[34:24]If you don't recall specifics but do recall you communicated with them
[34:28]you should answer yes but say you do not recall specifics.
[34:33]Council can I just ask you if you're going down a list your question is
[34:38]did he communicate with the person yes or no and then you'll come back if he says yes
[34:42]to ask further.
[34:42]Yes and I will finish the prompt here too.
[34:45]So the question Mr. President have you ever communicated with any of the following people
[34:51]regarding Mr. Jeffrey Epstein or Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell and for now you can say yes or no
[34:57]and we will come back to discuss each one.
[35:00]And this is to the best of his recollection.
[35:02]Correct.
[35:05]Okay first Richard Kahn.
[35:08]Richard who?
[35:09]Kahn.
[35:10]T-O-D-D?
[35:12]K-A-H-N.
[35:16]I don't know who that is.
[35:17]D-A-R-R-E-N-D-I-K.
[35:22]N-D-I-K?
[35:24]Correct.
[35:25]I don't know who that is.
[35:27]Sarah Kallen.
[35:29]I don't know who that is.
[35:34]Uma Avedine.
[35:36]Yes.
[35:39]Excuse me Mr. President the question is because I understand it name the people
[35:44]you communicated to about Epstein and Maxwell.
[35:48]Oh obviously I know Uma very well.
[35:52]I don't remember any specific conversations we ever had about Epstein and Maxwell.
[36:01]No Chomsky.
[36:04]No Mr. Chomsky wasn't a big fan of mine he thought I was too conservative.
[36:13]Leslie Groff.
[36:17]Leslie who?
[36:17]Groff.
[36:20]I'm sorry I don't know who that is.
[36:24]Nadia Marcinkova.
[36:25]I don't know who that is.
[36:28]Jean-Luc Brunel.
[36:31]I don't know who that is I don't believe.
[36:34]Alan Dershowitz.
[36:36]I know him and I'm not aware that we ever talked about Epstein or Maxwell I don't
[36:51]believe we did.
[36:52]Reid Hoffman.
[36:57]I know Reid Hoffman but he never talked about him.
[37:01]He never talked to me about Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell.
[37:08]Karina Schuliak.
[37:12]I don't believe I know who that is I don't think I've ever met that person.
[37:18]Woody Allen.
[37:21]I don't know who he is but I don't think I ever met him and I never talked to him
[37:26]about Epstein or Maxwell.
[37:29]Sandy Berger.
[37:32]Sandy Berger was my national security advisor.
[37:35]And we were very close personally but he's been dead for several years and I
[37:42]don't think I ever talked to him about either one of those people.
[37:48]Jess Staley.
[37:50]Jess Staley.
[37:52]Correct.
[37:54]No.
[37:59]Paul Morris.
[38:00]I don't believe I know him.
[38:08]L.E.D. Rosschild.
[38:14]Who Rosschild?
[38:17]L.E.D. Rosschild.
[38:18]L.E.D.?
[38:21]I know Evelyn Rosschild.
[38:23]Is that who it is?
[38:25]No and I have other Rosschilds on this list as well.
[38:29]I'm not sure who L.E.D. Rosschild is.
[38:31]I've met a bunch of them when I spoke at the funeral for Evelyn Rosschild.
[38:38]And I had met some of the others of one couple in France once 20 years ago.
[38:48]I don't remember him.
[38:49]Okay.
[38:51]Lynn Forrester Rosschild.
[38:53]Yes.
[38:54]I know her but I don't remember discussing Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell with her.
[39:05]Glenn Dubin.
[39:07]I don't believe I know him.
[39:11]Eva Anderson.
[39:13]I don't believe I know her.
[39:15]Casey Wasserman.
[39:18]I know him and he was on a trip to Africa with me.
[39:26]But I don't recall ever discussing either Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein with him.
[39:43]Ira Magaziner.
[39:46]Yes.
[39:47]I think I mentioned him earlier.
[39:49]He was the person who basically helped me start the AIDS program
[39:57]and he ran the Clinton Health Access Initiative for many years.
[40:02]He applied.
[40:02]He retired a couple years ago, a few years ago.
[40:05]But I don't remember ever discussing either Epstein or Maxwell with him.
[40:14]Karen Ewing.
[40:18]No.
[40:20]Stacey Plaskett.
[40:22]Stacey Plaskett is the member of Congress from the Virgin Islands.
[40:30]Correct.
[40:31]I know her but I don't recall ever discussing Epstein or Maxwell.
[40:39]Howard Lutnick.
[40:44]Howard Lutnick is the Secretary of Commerce.
[40:47]Correct.
[40:53]I know him and from 9-11 and because Hillary worked with his company and helped him to get
[41:00]going again.
[41:06]And I know he's now President Trump's Secretary of Commerce.
[41:09]But I never, I don't remember ever having any conversation with him about
[41:14]Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell.
[41:17]Doug Band.
[41:22]And he worked for me for years.
[41:24]And I know that he was, he arranged airplane flights and things like that
[41:34]and was doing work on the first Clinton Global Initiative in 2005.
[41:43]And I know that he knew both Epstein and Maxwell.
[41:48]I do not know to what extent he was in contact with them.
[41:54]And I heard things in the last thing.
[41:58]I didn't have any idea 24 years ago.
[42:00]So you'd have to be more specific if you want to know if I knew something then.
[42:05]I can tell you as best I can.
[42:06]But he worked for me and I knew some of what he was doing and I didn't know
[42:12]some of what he was doing.
[42:16]Thank you.
[42:16]And we will return to Mr. Band.
[42:19]Louis Free or Louis Free?
[42:24]I do know him.
[42:30]To the best of my knowledge, I didn't have any conversation with him
[42:37]without anything practically.
[42:38]But I certainly didn't talk to him about this.
[42:43]Robert Rubin.
[42:47]Bob Rubin was Larry Summers predecessor as Treasury Secretary
[42:52]and the first director of the National Economic Council.
[42:57]But I don't know if he knew Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell.
[43:06]I had no conversation with him about it.
[43:09]And for now, Mr. President, you can answer yes or no.
[43:13]Okay.
[43:14]And the yes or no is intended to convey whether he had a conversation
[43:18]about delaying Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein.
[43:21]So the answer to Rubin is no.
[43:24]Larry Summers.
[43:26]Yes.
[43:29]Pete Rathgeb.
[43:32]Reed who?
[43:33]Rathgeb.
[43:36]Rathcoe.
[43:36]R-A-T-H-K-O?
[43:38]R-A-T-H-G-E-E.
[43:41]Oh, Rathgeb.
[43:42]I don't recall that name.
[43:44]John Podesta.
[43:46]I don't believe I ever had a talk with John about it.
[43:52]I did stay in touch with John Podesta after he left the White House.
[43:57]And I consider him a friend, but I don't believe we ever discussed Epstein or Maxwell.
[44:03]Andrew Friendly.
[44:07]No, he was one of my, what you call, body men at the White House.
[44:13]And we've stayed in touch over the years,
[44:14]but I don't remember discussing Epstein or Maxwell with it.
[44:18]Katherine Rumler.
[44:22]Kathy Rumler is a lawyer who has done some, on occasion,
[44:29]some help for the foundation.
[44:30]I don't believe I ever discussed Maxwell or Epstein with it,
[44:34]but I can't be sure.
[44:38]But I don't remember doing it.
[44:41]Mr. President, they're only asking you what you can remember.
[44:43]What?
[44:43]They're only asking you what you can remember.
[44:47]Mark Middleton.
[44:51]I did not.
[44:56]He sadly is dead now.
[45:00]Bill Richardson.
[45:02]No, he's dead too now, sadly, but I didn't know about his relationship with Epstein.
[45:16]George Mitchell.
[45:19]No.
[45:20]Bill Gates.
[45:23]No.
[45:24]Leon Black.
[45:26]No.
[45:28]Aude Brock.
[45:30]No.
[45:32]Tony Blair.
[45:34]No.
[45:37]Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.
[45:43]I knew that he knew, at some point I knew that he knew the one Maxwell,
[45:57]but I did not know, I don't think, that he knew Epstein.
[46:03]So is that a yes that you had communications with him?
[46:06]That, no, we never had anything.
[46:09]Is your question communications about Epstein and Maxwell?
[46:13]Correct.
[46:14]Just generally as a conversation, like you're together?
[46:18]Can you just elaborate more so he can better answer your question?
[46:21]Mr. President, did you ever have any communications with Prince Andrew
[46:25]related to Mr. Epstein or Miss Maxwell?
[46:32]The direct answer to your question is no, but I don't want to mislead you.
[46:37]I know that because of my friendship with Evelyn and Lynn Rothschild,
[46:43]and because the former prince was around them,
[46:53]and they knew Ghislaine Maxwell from Britain and through her father, her late father,
[47:04]there may have been some conversation there.
[47:06]I don't remember it, but I don't want to mislead you.
[47:09]I knew something that...
[47:13]Your question, because it's so broad,
[47:15]means that any social engagement that you might have would be captured.
[47:18]So I think what he's trying to distinguish between
[47:20]is what you're trying to learn and just social engagement.
[47:23]Yes.
[47:25]If I had a social engagement with Andrew?
[47:28]Related to Mr. Epstein?
[47:29]Not related to him, no.
[47:31]Thank you.
[47:32]Thank you.
[47:33]Peter Mandelson?
[47:35]No.
[47:38]Muhammad Bin Salman?
[47:42]No.
[47:44]Larry Page?
[47:47]No.
[47:47]Sergey Brin?
[47:49]No.
[47:53]So let's talk about Larry Summers.
[47:56]You mentioned that you had communications with him related to Maxwell and Epstein.
[48:00]What were the nature of those?
[48:01]For the record, he said with Epstein, just to...
[48:04]Just Epstein.
[48:06]Just Epstein.
[48:08]Thank you.
[48:09]You mentioned that you had communications with Larry Summers related to Mr. Epstein.
[48:15]Can you describe the nature of those communications?
[48:18]Yes.
[48:19]As I said before, he called me on the phone.
[48:22]He knew what I was trying to do with this AIDS work
[48:29]and how important it was to me.
[48:31]And he said he had just talked to Jeffrey Epstein,
[48:38]who he described as a successful investment advisor who made a lot of money
[48:44]and had made a large commitment to Harvard to bring research.
[48:49]And he said he wants to talk to you about politics and economics.
[48:55]And he says if you will take an hour on the longer legs of these trips
[49:00]he knows you're going to make to Africa and Asia
[49:04]to talk to him about it,
[49:06]that he will fly you on his airplane.
[49:09]And your staff and your Secret Service detail
[49:12]and any other people you want to take who are supporting your work.
[49:22]And you mentioned these communications were related to the work of your foundation.
[49:27]Did you ever have any other communications with Larry Summers related to Mr. Epstein?
[49:31]No.
[49:32]So for the record, you never discussed anything related to Mr. Epstein and young women or girls?
[49:39]Absolutely not.
[49:46]Mr. President, for the record,
[49:48]have you ever been contacted by any law enforcement agency
[49:52]concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell?
[50:01]As far as I know, no.
[50:03]That is as far as I remember.
[50:06]Back in 2008, I sort of thought somebody might ask me something
[50:15]because I was glad this had come out since it had happened.
[50:19]But I don't believe anybody ever did.
[50:21]You mentioned that you thought someone would want to ask you something.
[50:27]Can you elaborate on what that means?
[50:30]Just because he let me use this airplane.
[50:32]And to be clear,
[50:38]have you ever provided any information to any law enforcement agency
[50:41]concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell?
[50:49]You asked this question before.
[50:50]You're just asking him to reiterate the response
[50:53]to the question that he previously asked you, Mr. President.
[50:55]I don't believe any law enforcement agency has ever asked me.
[51:00]And I didn't know enough to volunteer.
[51:05]Mr. President, are you aware of any efforts by anyone,
[51:09]including an attorney, process server, investigator,
[51:13]or any other person to contact you regarding any civil lawsuit,
[51:16]claim, or litigation involving Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell?
[51:23]Not that I recall.
[51:26]Did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform or represent to you
[51:30]that he was working with any intelligence service of any nation,
[51:33]including the United States?
[51:35]No.
[51:36]Did Ghislaine Maxwell ever inform or represent to you
[51:40]that she was working with any intelligence service of any nation,
[51:44]including the United States?
[51:46]No.
[51:47]And during your relationship,
[51:49]did you ever suspect Epstein or Maxwell
[51:52]of being affiliated with any intelligence agency?
[51:55]I did not.
[51:59]Thank you.
[52:06]I want to talk about your time in the White House.
[52:11]I realize that you have testified your recollection is limited.
[52:16]But did Mr. Epstein ever visit the White House while you were president?
[52:20]Objection.
[52:21]Asked and answered.
[52:23]The records reflect that he did.
[52:25]That's not the question.
[52:27]According to FOIA requests to the Clinton Library,
[52:31]Mr. Epstein visited the White House at least 17 times
[52:34]between 1993 and 1995.
[52:36]Do you have any reason to dispute those numbers?
[52:40]No.
[52:41]I don't.
[52:45]Do you know what the nature of Mr. Epstein's visits to the White House were?
[52:52]Are you asking what he knew in preparation for today?
[52:56]Can you clarify what you are seeking to learn?
[53:00]First of all, at the time, I had no idea he was coming and going.
[53:05]Huge numbers of people come and go in the White House.
[53:08]A lot of them come well over once, especially if they're lobbyists, for example.
[53:15]But I didn't know he was coming, so I certainly didn't know what he was coming about.
[53:25]Mr. President, after you left office, did you or your staff ever conduct
[53:30]a review of records, documents, or other materials
[53:33]related to Mr. Epstein's connections to your White House?
[53:40]You're exempting counsel.
[53:41]You can respond to that, but don't say anything
[53:45]about what you talked to your lawyers about.
[53:47]You can respond to this question.
[53:49]Do you need the question again?
[53:51]Yeah, I don't even understand.
[53:53]Did we look into what he did in the White House after I left office?
[53:58]Mr. President, one of the concerns of the committee is how Mr. Epstein
[54:01]and Ghislaine Maxwell potentially attempted to curry favor with influential figures.
[54:07]My question was, after you left office, did you or your staff
[54:11]ever conduct a review of records related to Mr. Epstein's connections to your White House?
[54:17]To the best of my knowledge, no.
[54:24]This time, I would like to introduce will be marked as Majority Exhibit 11.
[54:33]And while it's being passed out, I will note for the record,
[54:36]this is a New York Times article entitled
[54:38]The Untold Story of How Jeffrey Epstein Got Rich, published on December 16, 2025.
[54:45]And when you receive the article, I want to direct your attention
[54:54]to the last paragraph of page 31.
[54:59]The last paragraph of which page?
[55:00]31. And when you are ready, I will also read it into the record.
[55:58]Again, we are looking at page 31 in the last paragraph,
[56:03]and I will read it into the record and ask you a few questions.
[56:07]Please give him a moment to read this.
[56:11]I see this.
[56:54]Mr. President, the article reads,
[56:56]By 1995, Clinton and Epstein were sufficiently chummy
[57:00]that he wrote a get-well-sue note to Epstein's ailing mother.
[57:04]Hang in there, the President scrawled on a yellow post-it,
[57:07]which Epstein saved and we reviewed.
[57:13]Mr. President, did you write this note?
[57:17]Are you asking if he recalls writing this note from 1995 on a post-it?
[57:21]Correct.
[57:22]Okay, thanks.
[57:24]It looks like my handwriting, but I don't recall, but I will tell you this.
[57:31]I have written get-well notes to lots of people I did not know and had never met.
[57:38]And you answered my next question.
[57:42]Did you ever meet Jeffrey Epstein's mother or any of his family members?
[57:48]No, I'm not sure that I was asked to do this by Jeffrey Epstein.
[57:53]And I want to focus specifically on the article's characterization.
[57:58]It says that you were chummy with Mr. Epstein in 1995.
[58:02]Is that accurate?
[58:04]I'm going to object to that characterization's hearsay the President may answer.
[58:08]No, I was surprised by that.
[58:21]Let's talk about your relationship with Mr. Epstein after you left the White House.
[58:27]How would you characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein?
[58:36]During the time I was, it was cordial.
[58:42]At any time would you characterize Mr. Epstein as a friend?
[58:48]We were friendly, but I didn't know him well enough to be.
[58:51]Say we were friends.
[58:53]How often did you communicate with Mr. Epstein?
[58:56]On the trips.
[59:03]I did go to his house once, as you know.
[59:06]And we will discuss that further later on today.
[59:11]How did you typically communicate with Mr. Epstein?
[59:13]Did you talk to him on the phone?
[59:15]Excuse me, he just said he talked to him on the trips.
[59:18]So that's in person.
[59:20]Typically my staff communicated with all of him.
[59:24]I think it was mostly Mr. Band, but somebody talked to him.
[59:30]And you mentioned that you visited one of his properties.
[59:35]But outside of the work on the Foundation and your trips,
[59:39]how many times did you meet in person with Mr. Epstein?
[59:45]You're asking him to the best of his recollection.
[59:48]Outside of the trips.
[59:54]I believe he came to the office once in Harlem.
[59:59]I was still in the house up there then.
[1:00:03]And I think he paid a brief visit to the office.
[1:00:08]And I paid a brief visit to his house.
[1:00:14]But I once thought he was there, but now that I think about it,
[1:00:20]I don't think he was.
[1:00:22]And that was it.
[1:00:27]That's what I remember.
[1:00:28]And you mentioned you visited Mr. Epstein's house.
[1:00:32]Are you referring to his New York townhouse?
[1:00:35]Yes.
[1:00:38]And your communications with Mr. Epstein,
[1:00:42]did you ever have any communications that were not related to the Foundation?
[1:00:51]I don't believe we ever talked about anything.
[1:00:53]But the work we were doing, maybe small talk,
[1:00:58]I don't remember in the conversations.
[1:01:01]And for the record, before we move on,
[1:01:04]did you ever have any communications with Mr. Epstein
[1:01:08]that related to young women or girls?
[1:01:10]No.
[1:01:18]Do you have?
[1:01:19]Fantastic.
[1:01:20]Thank you very much.
[1:01:32]Good morning, Mr. President.
[1:01:34]How are you?
[1:01:34]Fine.
[1:01:37]I want to first start out by asking you,
[1:01:38]have you ever been or traveled on,
[1:01:41]or has Huma Abedin ever traveled on Epstein's plane?
[1:01:44]I don't know.
[1:01:54]She might have taken one of the trips with us, but I don't know.
[1:01:58]Okay, so have you flown on a plane with her?
[1:02:01]Several times.
[1:02:02]Several times?
[1:02:03]Can you say have you flown on a plane?
[1:02:04]Any plane?
[1:02:05]The Lolita Express.
[1:02:07]What is that?
[1:02:09]Have you flown on the Lolita Express with Jeffrey Epstein?
[1:02:13]I don't know what that is.
[1:02:14]Have you flown on Jeffrey Epstein's plane with Huma Abedin?
[1:02:20]Ask and answer.
[1:02:21]You may answer again.
[1:02:22]I don't remember, but I have flown.
[1:02:27]She's been sort of a part of our family for a very long time,
[1:02:30]so when I went to the Middle East,
[1:02:34]which I don't think I ever took a plane ride with Jeffrey Epstein,
[1:02:39]but she would typically go when I did.
[1:02:41]So have you traveled with both of them together?
[1:02:45]Excuse me, both of whom, Congressman?
[1:02:48]Of course.
[1:02:49]Have you traveled with Jeffrey Epstein and Huma Abedin together?
[1:02:53]I do not know.
[1:02:56]Okay, thank you.
[1:02:59]If the staff can please pass out EFTA 0021628
[1:03:06]and the rest of the documents I have them print
[1:03:08]regarding passports to the President and Council.
[1:03:14]This will be exhibit 12.
[1:03:17]Thank you.
[1:03:36]Mr. President, if you look at the passport page,
[1:03:40]the bottom of the document should show the EFTA number.
[1:03:43]It's 000021628.
[1:03:47]There's a name on there.
[1:03:48]Would you be able to read that name to me?
[1:03:50]Can you read the name?
[1:03:50]Excuse me, Carter, will you ask if I've ever seen the document before?
[1:03:54]Yes.
[1:03:54]Well, this is evidence,
[1:03:55]and so I wanted to ask him specifically.
[1:03:57]So it's from the DOJ document police, right?
[1:04:00]Understand, but he may not have seen it or he may have seen it.
[1:04:02]No, I've never seen it, but it looks like a passport.
[1:04:06]Okay.
[1:04:07]Okay.
[1:04:08]Can you tell me the name that's listed on the passport?
[1:04:11]Excuse me.
[1:04:11]He's never seen this document.
[1:04:13]Would you just read the name, please?
[1:04:14]Yes, the name is Marius Robert.
[1:04:17]Marius Robert, yeah.
[1:04:19]Are you familiar with that name at all?
[1:04:20]No.
[1:04:21]Okay.
[1:04:22]Would you be able to identify the individual in the photo?
[1:04:25]It looks like Jeffrey Epstein.
[1:04:27]Okay.
[1:04:27]The reason I ask you about this specifically is because I do believe
[1:04:32]that Jeffrey Epstein was an intelligence operative,
[1:04:35]and so this was a passport that was actually entered
[1:04:38]and released by the Department of Justice,
[1:04:40]but this was an FBI filing.
[1:04:41]It was found in his safe, if you will, so it's an alias.
[1:04:47]The reason I ask you that is because,
[1:04:48]given your nature and position,
[1:04:51]I'm wondering if you were essentially targeted by a honeypaw operation
[1:04:56]and or by intelligence to gather information.
[1:04:58]So that's why I asked you that question.
[1:05:00]Well, if there was a honeypaw...
[1:05:00]Mr. President, there's not a question.
[1:05:02]Is there a question?
[1:05:03]No.
[1:05:05]You can ask a question.
[1:05:05]Well, I'll be getting to more, but that's the reason I asked that.
[1:05:09]Okay.
[1:05:10]My next question for you is,
[1:05:11]have you ever had contact with an individual by the name of Shante Davies?
[1:05:17]I believe Shante, that's a distinctive name,
[1:05:20]and so I think that was the name of one of his flight attendants.
[1:05:23]Okay.
[1:05:24]She's been described on being on a 2002 Africa trip and providing massages.
[1:05:30]Was she or any other young female on that trip underage at that time?
[1:05:34]Not that I'm aware of.
[1:05:38]Did you ever receive a massage or have physical contact from her or anyone else on that trip?
[1:05:47]You've seen the pictures.
[1:05:48]There was one time when I was sitting up and I got a back rub, a neck rub.
[1:05:54]Okay.
[1:05:54]And I think Shante did it, but I'm not sure.
[1:05:57]Okay.
[1:05:58]Did you ever visit Epstein's Little St. James Island?
[1:06:02]No.
[1:06:03]Okay.
[1:06:04]We have Virginia Guffrey who has testified seeing you on the island with two young girls.
[1:06:09]Did this occur at all?
[1:06:12]No.
[1:06:12]Okay.
[1:06:13]Why do you think she would have made that claim?
[1:06:15]Objection.
[1:06:15]Speculation.
[1:06:16]He can't possibly...
[1:06:18]Have you ever met her or any other Epstein associated underage girl?
[1:06:23]Not to my knowledge.
[1:06:28]In Epstein's 2016 deposition, unsealed in the DOJ files,
[1:06:32]he refused to answer if you were accompanied by two young women
[1:06:36]who are approximately 18 years old on the island.
[1:06:38]Were any such women potentially underage with you?
[1:06:41]I know you've stated that you were not there,
[1:06:42]but did you have any interaction with the setting?
[1:06:46]Objection to the foundation of the question.
[1:06:48]He's already stated he was not on the island.
[1:06:50]You're now asking about a claim of the Fifth Amendment by Jeffrey Epstein.
[1:06:53]Okay.
[1:06:54]Would the staff be able...
[1:06:56]Go.
[1:06:56]If the witness doesn't know, the witness is welcome to say he doesn't know.
[1:06:59]No, but he actually answered the question.
[1:07:00]He answered the question.
[1:07:01]He said he wasn't on the island, so then he was asked.
[1:07:04]Okay.
[1:07:06]Do you know an individual by the name of Sarah Ransom?
[1:07:10]I don't believe so.
[1:07:11]Okay.
[1:07:13]There have obviously been claims made about you,
[1:07:18]and I do not believe that these claims are credible.
[1:07:22]The reason I am asking you specifically about that name
[1:07:25]is because that individual stated that you were in sex tapes, okay?
[1:07:30]It was unfounded and it was discredited.
[1:07:33]But given the politicization of this entire investigation,
[1:07:37]do you believe that it would be appropriate of members of this committee
[1:07:41]to bring in witnesses, whether it is about you or another president,
[1:07:45]that have unfounded allegations regarding sexual claims of misconduct?
[1:07:51]That's not a decision for me to make.
[1:07:53]As a recommendation in regards to avoiding trafficking,
[1:07:57]et cetera, and bringing justice for the victims,
[1:07:59]would you make that recommendation to this committee?
[1:08:04]Just so I understand the question,
[1:08:05]you're saying if the witness has unfounded claims?
[1:08:08]Well, I don't believe that Sarah Ransom's claims about the president are founded.
[1:08:12]I don't believe that there's sex tapes with you, President Clinton.
[1:08:15]I'm just asking about your question.
[1:08:18]You're not asking if somebody with plausible claims should be brought in.
[1:08:22]You're asking if somebody with implausible unfounded claims.
[1:08:24]Correct, because these claims were found to be unfounded by investigators.
[1:08:28]So are you asking his opinion?
[1:08:30]Yes, because we are trying to figure out.
[1:08:32]In regards to being able to further this investigation
[1:08:35]and whether or not we are going to be interviewing other individuals
[1:08:38]regarding sex trafficking, avoiding in the future.
[1:08:40]I know that you and your wife have both been big on this issue.
[1:08:44]So I'm asking you, would you think that it would be appropriate
[1:08:47]that this committee bring in someone like Sarah Ransom,
[1:08:50]who has unfounded claims that have been debunked in this investigation?
[1:08:54]It's a simple question.
[1:08:56]He answered this question when you first asked it then,
[1:08:58]when he said that it wasn't for him to make those decisions.
[1:09:01]Well, I'm asking for his recommendation to the committee in follow-up.
[1:09:06]It's not a gotcha question.
[1:09:08]This is obviously a very serious investigation.
[1:09:11]Well, first of all, I would recommend that you have on your staff,
[1:09:21]the prosecutors have a lot of experience in dealing with these cases.
[1:09:26]Normally, it's not a good idea to bring in a witness that you know is lying.
[1:09:31]Okay, thank you for that.
[1:09:34]My last questions for you are, are you familiar with anyone by the name of Adriana Ross?
[1:09:40]I don't think so.
[1:09:42]How about Sarah Kellen?
[1:09:43]I don't think so.
[1:09:45]Okay. Would you recommend that this committee bring in
[1:09:48]individuals that were listed as trafficking minors,
[1:09:54]they were listed as co-conspirators, and then given plea deals?
[1:10:00]I don't know enough about it, but I think you should do
[1:10:03]whatever you think will strengthen the ability of the United States
[1:10:11]not to have this happen again.
[1:10:13]Okay. Is it possible, and in your opinion,
[1:10:17]that you and or your wife were targeted as a means of an intelligence gathering operation?
[1:10:22]Object to the form of the question, no objection to if he knows that they were targeted.
[1:10:29]I believe that's what she asked.
[1:10:31]No, she said it's impossible.
[1:10:32]So she's asking me to speculate instead of asking him, does he know?
[1:10:35]Do you know if you were targeted at any point?
[1:10:40]I don't, but I don't.
[1:10:44]I'd sort of be surprised, but I'm not.
[1:10:46]I don't know.
[1:10:47]Okay. All right, Chairman Comer, I think that's my time.
[1:10:50]I just want to say thank you very much,
[1:10:54]President Clinton, for coming in.
[1:10:55]And I do understand that this has been politicized,
[1:10:58]but again, I will stay on record and I will state this to the press
[1:11:00]that I don't believe that Sarah Kellan's claims against you were valid.
[1:11:04]Thank you.
[1:11:15]Mr. President, before we left off,
[1:11:18]I asked you to characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein.
[1:11:21]I asked you if you considered him to be a friend.
[1:11:24]You said you did not.
[1:11:26]Is that right?
[1:11:27]I said we were friendly and we had a cordial relationship,
[1:11:30]but I didn't know him well enough
[1:11:33]because we had almost no contact beyond what I described.
[1:11:37]At this time, I'd like to introduce what will be marked as Majority Exhibit 13.
[1:11:43]This is base marked House Oversight 000126.
[1:11:49]And while it's being passed out,
[1:11:51]this is a letter from a book of letters,
[1:11:55]Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday questions.
[1:12:01]Mr. President, do you recognize this letter?
[1:12:04]And for the record,
[1:12:05]does this appear to be your handwriting and signature?
[1:12:07]It is.
[1:12:09]And why did you write this letter?
[1:12:13]Why did I?
[1:12:15]Because I was requested to contribute an ice letter for his birthday book.
[1:12:21]And who asked you to write the letter?
[1:12:24]I don't know.
[1:12:25]I don't remember.
[1:12:26]Would Ms. Maxwell have asked you?
[1:12:28]I don't know.
[1:12:29]I think someone on my staff asked me.
[1:12:32]Now, there's a word that our committee has not been able to identify,
[1:12:40]and in our defense, the Wall Street Journal has not been able to identify.
[1:12:44]Imagine being on his staff.
[1:12:45]Can you please read the letter for the record?
[1:12:49]Yes.
[1:12:51]It's reassuring, isn't it?
[1:12:53]Couldn't last and so long across all the years
[1:12:56]of learning and knowing adventures and errors.
[1:13:00]And still to have your childlike curiosity
[1:13:03]that drive to make a difference and the solace of friends for bad love.
[1:13:13]And because we haven't been able to identify that word until now, what did you?
[1:13:18]Which word was it that you could not?
[1:13:19]Solace.
[1:13:21]No, no.
[1:13:21]Errors.
[1:13:22]Errors.
[1:13:25]What did I mean?
[1:13:27]Anybody who's lived 50 years and done anything has made mistakes as well as progress.
[1:13:32]And done things.
[1:13:33]But for the record, you weren't referring to errors in judgment that Mr. Epstein had
[1:13:38]related to his inappropriate activities involving you?
[1:13:42]Absolutely not.
[1:13:43]I knew nothing about that.
[1:13:50]Did you ever see the birthday book compiled together?
[1:13:53]I don't think so.
[1:13:57]And you mentioned previously you were friendly with Mr. Epstein.
[1:14:04]Did you typically send birthday wishes to individuals
[1:14:08]that you didn't consider to be friends, though?
[1:14:12]No, I send out literally hundreds and hundreds of birthday letters every year
[1:14:17]to people that have been my friends.
[1:14:22]But if somebody's doing a special, I send birthday letters of congratulations
[1:14:27]to people I've met two or three times for their 70th birthday, their 80th birthday,
[1:14:33]their 50th wedding anniversary.
[1:14:37]I do it.
[1:14:38]And I found, I told you, I thought Epstein was interesting and curious.
[1:14:43]So I wrote a letter that I thought reflected that.
[1:14:46]Can you elaborate on what made him interesting and curious?
[1:14:51]No more than I've already said.
[1:14:54]At this time, I'd like to introduce what will be marked as Majority Exhibit 14.
[1:14:59]And while it's being handed out, this is an article published by The New York Times
[1:15:04]on August 5th, 2025 entitled A Look Inside Epstein's Manhattan Lair.
[1:15:10]And once you receive the article, I will just direct your attention to page 10.
[1:15:16]Where is that?
[1:15:31]We're specifically looking at a framed photo on a wooden table alongside
[1:15:39]multiple other framed photos.
[1:15:41]And we're focusing on the photo in the middle,
[1:15:44]which appears to have a golden frame.
[1:16:02]Not the page with the poke.
[1:16:04]Yeah, okay, that's it.
[1:16:06]Page 10.
[1:16:11]Mr. President, do you recognize yourself in this photo?
[1:16:14]I do.
[1:16:15]And it appears that the man on the right of the photo is Jeffrey Epstein, is that correct?
[1:16:19]I think so.
[1:16:21]Have you seen this photograph before today?
[1:16:24]Only in this picture.
[1:16:27]And for the record, what is happening in this photo?
[1:16:32]He's smiling at me, looks like he's talking to me.
[1:16:36]This is one of the friendly interactions that you were describing earlier?
[1:16:39]Yes.
[1:16:40]And can you describe the circumstances surrounding this photo?
[1:16:43]Are you asking if he recalls this?
[1:16:45]I do not.
[1:16:46]I have no idea.
[1:16:49]I see Richard Branson in the back and other people,
[1:16:58]but I don't remember anything about it.
[1:17:02]You appear to be comfortable with Mr. Epstein in this photo.
[1:17:04]Would you disagree with that characterization?
[1:17:07]You are creating a characterization.
[1:17:08]He's already responded to your question about the picture.
[1:17:12]I'm comfortable.
[1:17:13]I'm comfortable here.
[1:17:14]I'm not happy, but I'm comfortable.
[1:17:25]And my conscience is clear that helps.
[1:17:58]Okay.
[1:18:03]Mr. President, we have about five minutes remaining in the majority's purse hour,
[1:18:08]so I just want to ask you some questions related to
[1:18:14]the crimes committed by Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell.
[1:18:19]Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein sexually abuse or assault young women or girls?
[1:18:25]No.
[1:18:26]Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive massages from young women or girls?
[1:18:31]Not that I recall.
[1:18:33]Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you?
[1:18:38]No.
[1:18:42]Did you ever have any sexual contact with
[1:18:45]young women or girls in the presence of Epstein or Maxwell?
[1:18:50]No.
[1:18:53]Did you ever have sexual contact with any young woman or girl
[1:18:57]introduced to you by Epstein or Maxwell?
[1:19:00]No.
[1:19:05]Mr. President, with the benefit of hindsight,
[1:19:08]were there things you witnessed that could have suggested
[1:19:12]that Epstein was trafficking and sexually abusing young women and girls?
[1:19:19]I did not believe so.
[1:19:30]We will go off the record.
[1:19:32]We can go back on the record.
[1:19:45]Mr. President, good morning.
[1:19:47]Good morning.
[1:19:48]My name is and I'll be doing most of the questioning for the minority today.
[1:19:57]First, I want to thank you for your long and distinguished service to this country.
[1:20:02]I also want to thank you for your time today.
[1:20:04]We appreciate it.
[1:20:06]Before we get to questions, I'd like to take a few minutes
[1:20:08]and highlight some context that we think is relevant for today's conversation.
[1:20:14]President Trump had a long-standing personal relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
[1:20:18]That is not a secret.
[1:20:20]It is well documented and I think the public and everyone in Congress
[1:20:23]understands that at this point.
[1:20:26]President Trump does not like talking about his long-standing personal
[1:20:29]relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
[1:20:31]I think we've all seen that as well.
[1:20:34]On November 12th of last year,
[1:20:36]Oversight Committee Democrats released emails that were obtained
[1:20:39]from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein.
[1:20:42]In one email from 2011, Epstein said to Galane Maxwell
[1:20:46]that President Trump was, quote,
[1:20:49]that dog that hasn't barked and that an unnamed victim,
[1:20:52]quote, spent hours at my house with him.
[1:20:56]In another email from 2019, Epstein wrote that, quote,
[1:20:59]of course, he, referring to President Trump,
[1:21:02]knew about the girls as he asked Galane to stop.
[1:21:07]I'd like to enter as Minority Exhibit A, Oversight Democrats Press Release
[1:21:12]from November 12th, 2025, titled,
[1:21:15]House Oversight Committee Releases Jeffrey Epstein Email Correspondents
[1:21:20]Raising Questions About White House Cover-Up of Epstein Files.
[1:21:24]And that includes both the emails that I just mentioned.
[1:21:29]There was a fair amount of public attention on those emails,
[1:21:32]and two days later, President Trump asked the Department of Justice
[1:21:36]to investigate Epstein's relationships with yourself, Larry Summers,
[1:21:42]Reid Hoffman, and JPMorgan Chase.
[1:21:46]You are, of course, a former Democratic President of the United States.
[1:21:51]Notably, President Trump did not include any Republicans in his demands.
[1:21:57]Later that day, Attorney General Pam Bondi posted on social media
[1:22:01]that the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York
[1:22:04]would comply with President Trump's directive
[1:22:06]and take the lead on the investigation.
[1:22:10]I would like to enter as Minority Exhibit B,
[1:22:13]Attorney General Bondi's post on X,
[1:22:16]which also includes President Trump's post on Truth Social.
[1:22:23]It is well understood that you had a personal relationship with Mr. Epstein,
[1:22:28]and we will talk about that today,
[1:22:30]but the events I just described color our perspective on the conversation.
[1:22:35]It appears as if you and other Democratic figures
[1:22:38]have been targeted by President Donald Trump
[1:22:41]in an attempt to distract the American people
[1:22:43]from his own long-standing relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
[1:22:47]And if that were true, it would not be the first time
[1:22:50]that President Trump has targeted his political enemies
[1:22:54]under the guise of law enforcement.
[1:22:56]This deposition is occurring in the context of unprecedented weaponization
[1:23:01]of the Department of Justice by Donald Trump.
[1:23:05]You may have a perspective on this of your own,
[1:23:07]so before we get started, I just want to give you the opportunity
[1:23:10]to share any thoughts you might have on that subject.
[1:23:19]I think I'll let you ask me some questions
[1:23:21]and then maybe at the end I'll say something.
[1:23:23]That sounds fine. Thank you.
[1:23:25]I'd like to start our conversation with a few foundational questions
[1:23:29]so we can just set the record straight from the very beginning.
[1:23:32]With respect to your relationship with Mr. Epstein,
[1:23:36]did you ever at any point during your interactions with Jeffrey Epstein
[1:23:40]know about the sexual abuse that he was committing against minors and young women?
[1:23:45]No.
[1:23:47]Have you ever engaged in sexual activity with a person
[1:23:50]introduced to you by Jeffrey Epstein?
[1:23:53]No.
[1:23:55]With respect to your relationship with Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell,
[1:23:59]did you ever at any point during your interactions with Ghislaine Maxwell
[1:24:03]know about the sexual abuse that she committed
[1:24:06]and facilitated against minors and young women?
[1:24:09]No.
[1:24:10]Have you ever engaged in sexual activity with a person
[1:24:14]introduced to you by Ghislaine Maxwell?
[1:24:16]No.
[1:24:18]Have you ever at any point visited Jeffrey Epstein's former estate
[1:24:23]on Little St. James Island in the U.S. Virgin Islands?
[1:24:27]No.
[1:24:30]In February of last year, Attorney General Pam Bondi said on Fox News
[1:24:35]that you traveled on Mr. Epstein's plane, quote,
[1:24:38]because it supposedly had a bed in there where Jeffrey Epstein had young girls.
[1:24:44]I will ask you, did you fly on Mr. Epstein's plane
[1:24:47]because it had a bed where Jeffrey Epstein had young girls?
[1:24:51]No.
[1:24:52]Are there any other accusations that have been made against you
[1:24:55]with respect to Mr. Epstein that you'd like to address
[1:24:58]before we get started with some chronological questions?
[1:25:02]Well, I think you've pretty well covered it.
[1:25:07]Thank you.
[1:25:08]Thank you.
[1:25:09]I will ask a series of chronological questions.
[1:25:12]I'd like to try to create one clear chronological record.
[1:25:16]Some of that might be repetitive from what you've already talked about.
[1:25:19]I will try to keep that to a minimum.
[1:25:22]All of these questions are from a long time ago.
[1:25:24]If you don't recall anything about what I'm asking, just let me know.
[1:25:29]Starting with events before and during your presidency,
[1:25:33]the earliest known link that we're aware of between yourself and Mr. Epstein
[1:25:37]is that he made a pair of campaign contributions to you in 1992.
[1:25:42]There was a $1,000 contribution to your presidential election committee in January 1992
[1:25:49]and another $1,000 in June to the Clinton Corps General Election Compliance Fund.
[1:25:54]I imagine a lot of folks donated $1,000 to your campaign.
[1:25:58]Do you have any specific recollection or knowledge of those particular contributions?
[1:26:02]No, I think this is the first time I've ever known that.
[1:26:06]Thank you.
[1:26:08]That takes us into your time as president.
[1:26:11]You were elected in November of 1992 and inaugurated in January of 1993.
[1:26:17]Mr. Epstein visited the White House a number of times while you were in office.
[1:26:21]Our understanding is that Mr. Epstein visited the White House 17 times between 1993 and 1995.
[1:26:30]I am not going to walk you through each of those visits.
[1:26:33]I'm just going to break them into categories.
[1:26:36]I think first with respect to the only Epstein visit where it is publicly known
[1:26:40]that you've either met Mr. Epstein or had some interaction
[1:26:43]was the White House Historical Association reception that you mentioned earlier.
[1:26:49]I know there's a photograph that you mentioned of yourself and Mr. Epstein meeting.
[1:26:53]Am I right that you have no specific recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein
[1:26:57]or Ms. Maxwell at that event?
[1:26:59]I don't.
[1:27:01]With respect to the other 16 times that Mr. Epstein came and went
[1:27:05]and that spanned 1993 to 1995,
[1:27:09]am I right that you have no specific recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein any of those times?
[1:27:16]No, I don't think I did and I don't know who he saw.
[1:27:25]It's been publicly reported that in March of 1995,
[1:27:30]there was a fundraiser in Palm Beach that you attended and that Mr. Epstein also attended.
[1:27:37]Other guests reportedly included Jimmy Buffett and investor Ron Perlman
[1:27:42]who may have hosted the event at his home.
[1:27:44]Do you have any specific recollection of that event?
[1:27:50]I remember going there in 1995.
[1:27:54]I have now seen the picture with Jeffrey Epstein and Jimmy Buffett.
[1:28:01]I recognize Jimmy Buffett.
[1:28:03]He was a long-time friend of mine.
[1:28:04]He performed for me twice in my second term as president.
[1:28:11]And we were friends for the rest of his life.
[1:28:18]But that's it.
[1:28:20]I don't know if he knew Mr. Epstein.
[1:28:24]I had no idea what that picture was.
[1:28:27]I didn't remember.
[1:28:28]And so is it right that you have no specific recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein?
[1:28:32]No, I don't.
[1:28:34]At that fundraiser just for the transfer?
[1:28:36]Yeah.
[1:28:39]I'd like to introduce as Minority Exhibit C,
[1:28:43]an article from the Daily Beast titled
[1:28:46]Jeffrey Epstein Visited Clinton White House Multiple Times in Early 90s.
[1:28:51]That article is dated July 24th, 2019.
[1:28:56]Once you receive it, I'll just direct you to page 8 of the article that you're about to read.
[1:29:23]I'll give you a moment to look that note over
[1:29:25]and then I'll read the relevant portion into the record.
[1:29:50]So you can see here that on April 27th, 1995,
[1:29:54]Lynn Forrester, now Lynn Forrester de Rothschild,
[1:29:57]sounds like served on a few committees or boards under your administration,
[1:30:01]wrote you a note.
[1:30:02]I'll just read part of that note out loud.
[1:30:05]Dear Mr. President, it was a pleasure to see you recently at Senator Kennedy's house.
[1:30:10]There was too much to discuss and too little time.
[1:30:13]Using my 15 seconds of access to discuss Jeffrey Epstein and currency stabilization,
[1:30:19]I neglected to talk to you about a topic near and dear to my heart,
[1:30:22]namely affirmative action and the future.
[1:30:25]And that's the end of the relevant portion.
[1:30:28]I just wanted to ask whether you have any specific recollection
[1:30:32]of this note or of your conversation with Ms. Forrester.
[1:30:36]I don't.
[1:30:45]As far as you can remember, at this point in the middle of 1995,
[1:30:51]how would you have characterized your relationship with Mr. Epstein?
[1:30:55]It would be virtually nonexistent.
[1:31:04]Do you recall any other interactions that occurred between yourself and Mr. Epstein
[1:31:08]during your time in office that have not already been mentioned today?
[1:31:14]No, I think I told you everything I know.
[1:31:25]In October of 1999, toward the end of your time in office,
[1:31:28]we know that Epstein contributed $20,000 to the First Lady's joint fundraising account.
[1:31:34]Would you have any memory or knowledge of that particular contribution?
[1:31:38]No, is that for a White House-related thing?
[1:31:41]No, joint fundraising means the Senate.
[1:31:43]Oh, no, I didn't know that.
[1:31:49]Okay, I am going to move to the years after your presidency.
[1:31:54]I will do this in chronological order as well.
[1:31:57]Your second term ended in January of 2001.
[1:32:02]In December of 2001, the New York Post reported
[1:32:07]that you and Ms. Maxwell had dinner at a New York City restaurant called Nello's.
[1:32:13]Do you have any specific recollection of that dinner?
[1:32:18]No, I do not remember the article.
[1:32:28]So moving into 2002, you touched on this in the previous round.
[1:32:34]It sounds like there were two meetings.
[1:32:36]We do not have exact dates for them,
[1:32:38]but one of them was at your office in Harlem with Mr. Epstein.
[1:32:41]The other was at Mr. Epstein's home in New York City.
[1:32:45]Could you just repeat for us, what do you recall about each meeting,
[1:32:48]maybe starting with your office in Harlem?
[1:32:51]I just remember that sometime in 2002, I think, he paid a visit.
[1:33:00]And he had become, I think it was either after or just before we started the flights.
[1:33:11]But he obviously was going to be a serious supporter of the Foundation,
[1:33:15]and I think he paid a visit.
[1:33:19]I was flattered.
[1:33:20]He wanted to see my office.
[1:33:21]I liked it.
[1:33:22]And then the meeting at his home in New York City,
[1:33:26]did I hear you say in the previous hour that Mr. Epstein was not actually there?
[1:33:31]I said that when I wrote my book and talked about it,
[1:33:36]and when I've talked about it in the past, I've always,
[1:33:40]I realized I talk as if he were there, and of course he was there.
[1:33:44]And I started trying to picture the nice man on the staff that showed me around.
[1:33:50]And I couldn't, I don't, now I'm just being honest,
[1:33:53]I don't remember whether he was there or not.
[1:33:56]He could have been there, but I don't remember.
[1:33:59]As far as you can recall, would the purpose of that meeting also have been related to
[1:34:03]Mr. Epstein's support of your work through his plane, for example?
[1:34:08]Yeah, the reason we went by, regardless of who was there,
[1:34:14]was that my staff had, we finished an event in New York City that had a place,
[1:34:23]and you know, Lord knows who may have done since then, I don't remember what it was for,
[1:34:26]but it was in New York City.
[1:34:29]And my staff said, you know, we're only a couple blocks from Epstein's house.
[1:34:36]It's a converted elementary school.
[1:34:38]He's very proud of it.
[1:34:41]And I think, you know, it would be a nice thing to do since it's on the way.
[1:34:46]You could just go by and take a look at it.
[1:34:50]So that's what we did.
[1:34:52]Do you recall seeing anything or anyone in his home that was suspicious
[1:34:59]or reflected abnormally young women or girls?
[1:35:04]No, the only people I saw there that night were staff.
[1:35:06]And him, if he was there, I just don't remember.
[1:35:10]Do you recall seeing any images of young girls or women at Epstein's home?
[1:35:17]No.
[1:35:18]So moving to some of the travel on Mr. Epstein's plane,
[1:35:25]and we have specific dates for a lot of that,
[1:35:28]I'd like to move through that chronology of known trips just one at a time in order.
[1:35:33]In order to begin, flight logs indicate that on February 9th of 2002,
[1:35:40]and we'll give you the logs,
[1:35:42]you flew Mr. Epstein's plane from Miami to Westchester County, New York,
[1:35:47]with Epstein, Maxwell, and some others.
[1:35:50]And you mentioned this flight in the previous round as well.
[1:35:53]I will introduce that flight log as Minority Exhibit D.
[1:35:58]We'll give you a moment to receive that and take a look at it.
[1:36:22]Is this one page?
[1:36:23]It is one page.
[1:36:24]Exactly.
[1:36:27]And the flight in question, the left-most column has the number 9 on it,
[1:36:32]and you can see your name at the beginning in one of the middle columns.
[1:36:36]Excuse me, at the top, it says 15.
[1:36:41]Are you talking about a date?
[1:36:42]Could you just-
[1:36:43]Yeah, the one on February 9th.
[1:36:44]Thank you.
[1:36:45]Sure.
[1:36:54]Yeah, I do see it.
[1:36:58]Great. I'll just ask some specific questions.
[1:37:01]As an initial question, and we can see it here,
[1:37:03]you had a Secret Service detail that traveled with you after you left office,
[1:37:08]presumably still does.
[1:37:10]Is that correct?
[1:37:10]That's correct.
[1:37:12]And did that detail accompany you on all trips that you took with Mr. Epstein?
[1:37:18]Yes.
[1:37:21]For this trip from Miami to Westchester,
[1:37:24]first just do you recall the circumstances of the trip?
[1:37:30]I was down there and I was coming home.
[1:37:32]I don't remember why I was down there.
[1:37:35]In terms of who was present on the flight,
[1:37:38]and we'll do this exercise with the other trips as well,
[1:37:42]are you able to make out from the initials here maybe who is who?
[1:37:46]In other words, I can see your name and I can see for Secret Service.
[1:37:51]And then from there we have two males, one female,
[1:37:55]I think Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell, and then SK and AP.
[1:38:01]Do you have any recollection of who any of those folks
[1:38:04]may have been?
[1:38:06]No.
[1:38:08]I just don't want to run, sorry.
[1:38:10]I don't.
[1:38:12]And the initials, they don't mean anything to me.
[1:38:17]This isn't a record from yours.
[1:38:19]This is their record.
[1:38:21]Yeah.
[1:38:24]In February of 2002, so the same month as this flight,
[1:38:30]it was reported that you and Ms. Maxwell were seated together
[1:38:33]at some type of charity gala in New York.
[1:38:36]I don't know what the charity was or where exactly the event occurred.
[1:38:39]Do you have any recollection of what I'm referring to?
[1:38:41]Could you state the date again, sir?
[1:38:43]In the same month, February 2002, and I don't have an exact date.
[1:38:47]What was it reported?
[1:38:49]Simply that you and Ms. Maxwell were seated together at a charity gala in New York.
[1:38:54]Wow.
[1:38:55]I have no recollection of it, but it could have happened.
[1:39:01]Heading into March of 2002, so the following month,
[1:39:06]we have a series of international travel.
[1:39:09]And the first of those trips indicates that on March 19th and 21st of 2002,
[1:39:17]you flew on Mr. Epstein's plane from JFK to London and back
[1:39:22]with Mr. Epstein, Ms. Maxwell, and some others.
[1:39:25]We will introduce those flight logs as Minority Exhibit E
[1:39:30]and go through the same exercise.
[1:39:32]That's the 19th and the 21st.
[1:39:57]The 19th and the 21st?
[1:39:58]Yes, down toward the bottom of the page.
[1:40:12]Was this a flight to London?
[1:40:13]Yes.
[1:40:14]This says we had 10 Secret Service agents.
[1:40:19]So I guess just to start with, do you recall the circumstances or the reason for this trip?
[1:40:26]This was when?
[1:40:27]This was March of 2002.
[1:40:32]I don't, but keep in mind, there was a lot of stuff going on.
[1:40:38]The India, in late January, four days after I left office, had a horrible earthquake
[1:40:53]and lots of people died.
[1:40:56]And I called the Prime Minister of India, Mr. Vajpayee,
[1:41:05]who belongs to the current leader's party but was much less
[1:41:09]uber nationalist.
[1:41:12]And I asked him if I could help.
[1:41:16]And he said yes.
[1:41:17]He said I have the money and organization to fix the big cities but not the smaller towns
[1:41:24]and we need schools, we need hospitals, we need all the stuff rebuilt.
[1:41:27]Will you help?
[1:41:28]So that's the first thing I undertook to do,
[1:41:32]even before the AIDS thing, after I left the White House.
[1:41:37]So I was there.
[1:41:39]So by March of 2002, the next year, we were still working on that
[1:41:46]and then the South Asian tsunami hit in December.
[1:41:52]So I was doing all this stuff and also trying to get set up at home too.
[1:42:03]That's why it sounds unusual for me to have 10 Secret Service agents,
[1:42:09]but I must have been going to several stops.
[1:42:12]And is it the same for you when you look at some of these names?
[1:42:15]I can make out the name Naomi Campbell.
[1:42:18]Do you have any recollection of Naomi Campbell being on this flight?
[1:42:22]Naomi, when we went to Europe once, I think she went on one.
[1:42:25]She was a friend of Doug's and that's what I remember.
[1:42:32]Let me see.
[1:42:37]Yep.
[1:42:38]And Jeffrey, Galane, I don't know who the other people were.
[1:42:46]Looks like Doug Band is listed there.
[1:42:48]He's there, but SK, I don't know who that is.
[1:42:50]Okay, great.
[1:42:58]Moving to May of 2002, just two months after the one we just looked at,
[1:43:02]flight logs show a series of flights around Asia.
[1:43:06]Got five flights including Hong Kong, China, Singapore, and Thailand.
[1:43:12]I'll introduce the flight logs for that trip.
[1:43:14]Just take a look at it together.
[1:43:16]As Minority Exhibit F, right?
[1:43:39]We do need it, thank you.
[1:43:40]Oh, great.
[1:43:41]Thank you very much.
[1:43:49]Those are from the 22nd to the 25th.
[1:44:00]And you're saying each one till the 25th?
[1:44:02]Yeah, so the first one lists the former president
[1:44:05]and then four in a row after that list same as above.
[1:44:08]So it's the same group of folks for about five flights.
[1:44:13]So same question, this trip to Asia,
[1:44:15]do you have a recollection of the circumstances?
[1:44:18]How the trip came about?
[1:44:21]Yeah, that was 2002, right?
[1:44:23]Yes.
[1:44:25]So when was the tsunami?
[1:44:36]Was it at the end of 2002 or the end of 2001?
[1:44:40]That I'm not sure of.
[1:44:42]Just to the best of your memory, you have to share what you know.
[1:44:45]Anyway, to the best of my memory, this was a trip
[1:44:50]to raise funds to organize our health network in Asia,
[1:44:56]which was basically designed to deal with AIDS,
[1:45:03]but also I was heavily involved in the reconstruction of India
[1:45:11]after the earthquake there and was asked to do it
[1:45:17]by the prime minister and later by the UN.
[1:45:22]So I was involved with that.
[1:45:24]And do you have any recollection of who these individuals on the flight were?
[1:45:29]For example, there are a few female names.
[1:45:31]I think one is Janice, one is Jessica.
[1:45:35]When you look at the log, do you have any recollection of who's who?
[1:45:40]No, it may have been a flight attendant, I don't know.
[1:45:47]Do you have any recollection of the flights themselves?
[1:45:57]Of this particular flight?
[1:45:58]This group of flights.
[1:46:02]I remember we made several stops and you mentioned them.
[1:46:06]We're going there, but that's all I know.
[1:46:08]To the best of your recollection,
[1:46:10]whether with respect to the flights or the trip itself,
[1:46:14]do you ever witness or become aware of sexual abuse of any kind?
[1:46:18]No.
[1:46:22]We then have logs showing two flights in July of 2002
[1:46:28]and I will introduce those as Minority Exhibit G.
[1:46:35]Give you a moment to receive those.
[1:46:42]What was the prior one?
[1:46:44]Prior one would have been F.
[1:46:46]And that was the May 2002 flight one.
[1:46:49]It was F.
[1:46:51]No, I put F on that, but I thought that was...
[1:46:57]Sorry.
[1:46:57]No, no problem.
[1:46:58]It should be May 2002.
[1:47:00]I have as F as in Frank.
[1:47:06]Okay, I'm not sure what this one was.
[1:47:07]Okay, got it.
[1:47:09]I'm going to get the labels later.
[1:47:11]Thank you.
[1:47:11]Sorry about that.
[1:47:12]No, not at all.
[1:47:14]So this one will be G and it's July of 2002,
[1:47:18]specifically on July 13th.
[1:47:20]Oh, sorry.
[1:47:21]Next one, Mr. President.
[1:47:22]I forgot what day it was.
[1:47:31]Does this say where we're going?
[1:47:32]Yeah, it's on the 13th and these flights are from Morocco to Portugal
[1:47:38]and then Portugal to JFK.
[1:47:41]And our understanding just from public reporting
[1:47:44]is that this may have been part of a trip to Morocco
[1:47:47]to attend the King of Morocco's wedding.
[1:47:50]And you're asking him about the legs that he's on.
[1:47:52]Correct, exactly.
[1:47:56]This is July of 2022.
[1:47:57]Is that what his wedding was?
[1:47:58]Sorry?
[1:47:59]Is that when he got married?
[1:48:01]It may have been.
[1:48:01]I think that's my question for you is whether you recall that this trip...
[1:48:05]I recall it going to his wedding.
[1:48:07]Okay.
[1:48:07]Do you recall approximately when that wedding would have been?
[1:48:13]No, but it was a long time ago.
[1:48:15]I don't know if this was it.
[1:48:16]But I did go to Morocco more than once.
[1:48:22]Do you recall attending the King of Morocco's wedding?
[1:48:25]Absolutely, I did.
[1:48:27]Do you recall whether Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell also attended that wedding?
[1:48:35]I don't.
[1:48:36]I remember I think Chelsea went with me.
[1:48:39]And I remember because my late mother-in-law loved Morocco
[1:48:50]and Chelsea was there with her once and she wanted to go.
[1:48:54]So we went and it was really nice.
[1:48:57]I was very close to the King's father
[1:49:02]and I marched in his funeral when he died.
[1:49:09]And so they had this wedding and we were invited
[1:49:15]and I very much wanted to go.
[1:49:18]Hillary was working and didn't go.
[1:49:20]Chelsea did and I think Hummel was with us too.
[1:49:28]There's been some reporting that you may have invited
[1:49:32]Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell to the King's wedding.
[1:49:36]It sounds like, but please you tell me,
[1:49:38]do you have any specific recollection of that?
[1:49:40]I don't.
[1:49:43]I don't remember.
[1:49:45]Do you have any specific recollection of these two flights
[1:49:49]which may or may not have been part of the King's wedding?
[1:49:53]From Morocco to Portugal and Portugal to JFK,
[1:49:56]Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell were on the flights
[1:49:59]as well as yourself.
[1:50:01]When I was coming home.
[1:50:05]He's just asking you about these two legs
[1:50:07]and he's asking you do you have any recollection
[1:50:09]of these two legs of the flights?
[1:50:12]No.
[1:50:14]I remember the wedding very well
[1:50:15]and all the stuff that happened.
[1:50:17]That's all I don't remember coming or going.
[1:50:20]Thank you.
[1:50:23]In September of that year we have the trip
[1:50:25]that I think a lot of folks are aware of.
[1:50:28]This is a trip to Africa in September of 2002.
[1:50:34]The trip started at JFK, ended in London,
[1:50:38]stopped in Ghana, Nigeria, Rwanda, Mozambique,
[1:50:43]and South Africa.
[1:50:44]Some high profile figures were on board
[1:50:46]including actor Kevin Spacey and comedian Chris Tucker
[1:50:51]as well as Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell.
[1:50:54]I will introduce those flight logs as Minority Exhibit H.
[1:50:59]I'll give you a moment to receive them.
[1:51:01]Thank you.
[1:51:23]So this is a two-sided document
[1:51:25]and the flights are at the bottom half of the first page
[1:51:28]and one flight at the top of the second page.
[1:51:31]Starting at the 21st?
[1:51:33]Yes.
[1:51:34]Sure.
[1:51:38]I'll just ask you generally before we look at the logs specifically.
[1:51:43]What is your recollection of how this trip to Africa came about?
[1:51:51]Well this is where most of our work was going to be done.
[1:51:54]And what month is this?
[1:51:57]This is I believe September of 2002.
[1:52:01]So and the countries we were going to represent
[1:52:11]places where we had operations like Mozambique for example
[1:52:18]had a big AIDS problem and we were trying to help
[1:52:21]and there was so that's what I know.
[1:52:31]In South Africa we spent quite a bit of time
[1:52:36]because I wanted to go see Mandela.
[1:52:38]He was still in good shape then and we did things together
[1:52:44]and then Charlene Hunter was one of the black women
[1:52:56]that integrated the University of Georgia
[1:52:59]and became then a very well known
[1:53:02]international television commentator for PBS
[1:53:06]and her husband Ron had moved down to South Africa
[1:53:10]and they were longtime friends of mine.
[1:53:12]We had celebrated the 150th birthday of Arkansas together
[1:53:18]in Little Rock for a long time friends
[1:53:22]and so we went to visit them
[1:53:24]and she threw a big cookout for us
[1:53:27]and it was a funny time.
[1:53:30]Chris Tucker and Kevin Spacey imitated me.
[1:53:38]So a lot of these names on the logs are hard to make out.
[1:53:41]Do you have any specific recollection of who was on board those flights?
[1:53:46]He's not asking you to review
[1:53:48]and try and see if you can read their names.
[1:53:49]He's asking you what your recollection is.
[1:53:52]It says Shanta Davis was and she worked for Jeffrey.
[1:53:59]And I think it was discussed in the previous round
[1:54:01]but that well-known photograph of yourself and Miss Davies
[1:54:05]what is your recollection of the extent of your interactions
[1:54:08]with Miss Davies on that trip?
[1:54:10]Where were we?
[1:54:11]In Africa.
[1:54:12]No no where was the photograph?
[1:54:13]I think it was at the airport.
[1:54:16]On the way to?
[1:54:18]That's it.
[1:54:20]I mean we had a good relationship
[1:54:22]but it was entirely proper.
[1:54:25]I never had any personal contact with her
[1:54:28]if that's what you imply.
[1:54:29]And am I right that while on that trip
[1:54:31]whether the trip or the flights
[1:54:32]did you ever witness or become aware of sexual abuse of any kind?
[1:54:37]I did not.
[1:54:38]Thank you.
[1:54:39]Thank you Mr. President.
[1:54:40]Thank you.
[1:54:40]We have a series of questions from some of the members in the minority.
[1:54:45]And so I'll be calling them up as we as we go through.
[1:54:48]Thank you.
[1:54:48]Just want to again thank you for being here
[1:54:50]and answering all the questions.
[1:54:52]We appreciate that and for your service.
[1:54:54]Just two clarifying questions.
[1:54:56]One that was asked during the Republican hour
[1:54:58]and I just want to just have you reiterate it for the record.
[1:55:02]Either during or after your presidency
[1:55:04]were you ever made aware of Jeffrey Epstein
[1:55:06]having any kind of relationship directly or indirectly
[1:55:11]with a foreign intelligence agency or service?
[1:55:15]And I ask because we've received a lot of interest
[1:55:18]and communication about that topic.
[1:55:20]And so I want to give you a chance to answer that again
[1:55:23]if there's anything else.
[1:55:23]No I wasn't and I understood why
[1:55:26]and when you showed me the passport but I wasn't.
[1:55:31]I didn't know anything about that.
[1:55:33]Thank you.
[1:55:34]And then second of course
[1:55:36]this deposition also sets a pretty new precedent I think
[1:55:39]which is something that we've been discussing
[1:55:41]and folks across the country are discussing as well.
[1:55:44]We're thankful that you're here.
[1:55:47]We believe in the minority that President Trump
[1:55:50]should also answer this committee's questions.
[1:55:53]He's someone that is mentioned almost more than any other person
[1:55:56]beside Colleen Maxwell in the FC documents.
[1:56:00]And so to get more information for this investigation
[1:56:03]I was wondering if you also agree
[1:56:06]that President Trump should answer questions of this committee.
[1:56:11]That's for you to decide but he didn't know him well
[1:56:14]and I once had a brief discussion with him about it.
[1:56:19]Thank you.
[1:56:20]Thanks for the answer.
[1:56:20]With that I'm going to go to Mr. Walkinshaw
[1:56:22]and we'll go down a series of questions.
[1:56:29]I hate this but because I don't believe
[1:56:30]I should inject anything
[1:56:32]but I do not want to leave the impression
[1:56:37]since there was no follow-up question.
[1:56:41]He never, the President never,
[1:56:43]this is 20 something years ago,
[1:56:45]never said anything to me to make me think
[1:56:48]he was involved in anything in proper regard to Epstein either.
[1:56:54]He just didn't.
[1:56:56]He just said we were friends
[1:56:59]and then we had a falling out over a land deal, property deal.
[1:57:05]That's all.
[1:57:06]Thank you.
[1:57:07]Could I ask very briefly Mr. President
[1:57:09]if you recall what were the circumstances of that conversation
[1:57:12]or at least let's start with when did the conversation occur?
[1:57:15]We were, it was on its golf course
[1:57:20]and there were a couple of years there when Joe Torrey
[1:57:26]who had been the manager of the Yankees
[1:57:29]and was a friend and had a tournament,
[1:57:33]a charity golf tournament
[1:57:35]called appropriately for this investigation
[1:57:38]the Safe at Home Foundation
[1:57:40]and it was designed to combat domestic violence
[1:57:49]of which Joe Torrey had been a victim as a child
[1:57:53]and so I wanted to support it
[1:57:57]and so Donald Trump gave him the golf course in New York
[1:58:02]to have a tournament on
[1:58:04]and I played in it a couple of times
[1:58:06]and the day I was there he would typically,
[1:58:13]Donald Trump would come out and play a few holes with us
[1:58:18]and he somehow knew I had flown in Jeffrey Epstein's aircraft
[1:58:23]and he said you know we had some great times together
[1:58:26]over the years but we fell out
[1:58:30]all because of a real estate deal
[1:58:34]and he said I'm sorry it happened.
[1:58:36]That's all.
[1:58:38]Do you recall whether President Trump was the first one
[1:58:41]to affirmatively bring up the subject of Jeffrey Epstein?
[1:58:46]No but I'd be shocked if I did.
[1:58:49]I just don't do that.
[1:58:52]Do you recall whether President Trump elaborated at all
[1:58:54]on the great times that he had with Jeffrey Epstein?
[1:58:58]No and I took, at the time I took no,
[1:59:01]I didn't put any sexual stint on it.
[1:59:08]And as far as you recall President Trump characterized
[1:59:11]the nature of the ending of their friendship
[1:59:14]as being solely due to the real estate.
[1:59:17]That's what he said.
[1:59:20]Thank you.
[1:59:21]But I didn't think much about it at the time
[1:59:23]and it was two minutes and then we were gone.
[1:59:28]As far as you recall have you had any other
[1:59:31]conversations with President Trump related to Jeffrey Epstein
[1:59:34]or Galeen Maxwell?
[1:59:36]No.
[1:59:37]And your best recollection if you have one of the year
[1:59:40]that this conversation occurred?
[1:59:43]May 2002 or 2003.
[1:59:45]Thank you.
[1:59:49]Thank you Mr. President.
[1:59:50]Good afternoon.
[1:59:52]I just want to focus again on Galeen Maxwell.
[1:59:56]First I'll ask you just to reiterate did you ever
[1:59:58]at any point during your interactions with Ms. Maxwell
[2:00:02]know about the sexual abuse she committed
[2:00:04]and facilitated against minors and women?
[2:00:08]No.
[2:00:08]When did you learn that she had engaged in crimes
[2:00:11]against girls and young women?
[2:00:12]When the first evidence came out one was in 2019.
[2:00:18]Okay.
[2:00:19]And have you ever engaged in sexual activity
[2:00:21]with a person introduced to you by Galeen Maxwell?
[2:00:24]No.
[2:00:25]You're aware that she was convicted of crimes as we discussed
[2:00:30]and you're aware that she's currently incarcerated
[2:00:32]as a result of her federal conviction?
[2:00:34]Yes.
[2:00:36]Maxwell received a 20-year sentence for her crimes.
[2:00:39]Are you aware that she has repeatedly called
[2:00:42]on President Trump to grant her clemency
[2:00:45]and that she has said that you and President Trump
[2:00:49]are not guilty of any wrongdoing with respect to Epstein?
[2:00:52]I know that now yes.
[2:00:53]And in your opinion does she deserve
[2:00:56]or should she be granted clemency by President Trump?
[2:01:00]I don't think I should comment on that.
[2:01:04]I don't know anything about President Trump
[2:01:08]other than what I've already told you.
[2:01:11]And I thought it was in the state to pardon everybody
[2:01:19]in the January 6th case and I think that this thing
[2:01:28]was really hard for me when it came out
[2:01:30]because we had been friendly with Galeen.
[2:01:35]I was sad but it was terrible what she did
[2:01:41]and she has to be punished.
[2:01:43]Somebody besides me should make a decision on what it is.
[2:01:47]So she got 20 years and there it is.
[2:01:52]Mr. President, on July 24th, 2025 the Deputy Attorney General
[2:01:57]and President Trump's former personal attorney Todd Blanch
[2:02:00]conducted a closed door interview of Ms. Maxwell
[2:02:03]at her then low security prison.
[2:02:06]On August 1st, 2025 just a few days after that interview
[2:02:10]she was transferred to a lower security prison
[2:02:14]where she's afforded a list of amenities,
[2:02:17]personalized meals, playtime with puppies,
[2:02:21]a transfer that I think most Americans agree
[2:02:24]is inconsistent with a very serious crime
[2:02:26]she was convicted of.
[2:02:28]Do you have any opinion on her transfer
[2:02:30]to that lower security prison
[2:02:32]and the amenities she's been granted?
[2:02:34]Did it seem strange to you when you learned of that?
[2:02:38]I think you're in a better position
[2:02:40]to find out what happened than I am.
[2:02:42]Okay.
[2:02:43]When you were President of the United States
[2:02:44]was it common for your Deputy Attorney General
[2:02:49]to directly conduct interviews of witnesses
[2:02:52]and or federal inmates?
[2:02:55]Was it? You were there.
[2:02:59]You have to testify what you know.
[2:03:01]He's asking did you ever send a Deputy Attorney General?
[2:03:05]To the best of my knowledge I did not do that.
[2:03:08]All right. Thank you, Mr. President.
[2:03:09]May I ask a question?
[2:03:23]Representative Foster,
[2:03:24]are you still the youngest person in Congress?
[2:03:27]Yes, I am, Mr. President.
[2:03:29]Lucky you.
[2:03:29]Hopefully that changes.
[2:03:32]If you're the youngest for too long it's not good.
[2:03:34]You know, come a time, believe me,
[2:03:36]I was for most of my life
[2:03:38]the youngest person doing whatever I was doing
[2:03:40]and one day I woke up
[2:03:42]I was the oldest man in every room
[2:03:44]and I couldn't tell you for the life of me
[2:03:45]how I got from one place to the other.
[2:03:47]Time will take care of it.
[2:03:48]Enjoy it while it lasts.
[2:03:50]Thank you, thank you.
[2:03:51]It's a blessing to be the oldest person
[2:03:52]in the room as well.
[2:03:55]Mr. President, I just wanted to circle back
[2:03:57]to the conversation around the conversation
[2:04:01]with Jeffrey Epstein on the golf
[2:04:03]with Donald Trump on the golf course in New York.
[2:04:08]President Trump has said publicly multiple times
[2:04:10]that his falling out with Jeffrey Epstein
[2:04:13]was the result of him hiring away workers
[2:04:15]from Mar-a-Lago and his crimes.
[2:04:18]He said that's why he kicked them out of Mar-a-Lago.
[2:04:21]You brought up two questions about this.
[2:04:23]Did President Trump specifically characterize
[2:04:28]the result of this land dispute they had
[2:04:31]as a falling out specifically to the best of?
[2:04:34]Yeah, he said they both wanted the same piece of land.
[2:04:37]He didn't say what it was and that's all I remember.
[2:04:41]And he said it was a falling out as a result of that?
[2:04:44]Yeah, he said it strained their relationship.
[2:04:46]Do you know when this conversation happened?
[2:04:49]When the conversation I had with him happened?
[2:04:52]Well, it had to be in 2002 or 2003, I think.
[2:04:55]2002 to 2003.
[2:04:57]All right, thank you.
[2:04:59]During any of your interactions with Jeffrey Epstein
[2:05:02]did either of them ever mention or discuss
[2:05:05]their relationships or connections with Howard Ludnick?
[2:05:10]No.
[2:05:11]What about their relationship or connection with Alex Acosta?
[2:05:16]No.
[2:05:17]Prior to Jeffrey Epstein's arrest in 2019
[2:05:20]did anyone ever speak with you
[2:05:22]about Epstein's relationship with Howard Ludnick?
[2:05:25]No.
[2:05:26]What about Alex Acosta?
[2:05:28]No.
[2:05:29]Thank you. Those are my questions.
[2:05:31]Good morning, Mr. President.
[2:05:41]Good morning.
[2:05:42]I'm Melanie Stansbury.
[2:05:43]I represent New Mexico's first congressional district
[2:05:46]and it's an honor to have you and your counsel here.
[2:05:51]This is a very important investigation
[2:05:53]and we obviously have a lot of questions.
[2:05:56]And for me personally, this case is all about justice for the victims.
[2:06:01]And I really appreciated in your opening statements
[2:06:04]your statement about nobody being above the law, including a president.
[2:06:08]And I think it's important that we are setting the precedent
[2:06:11]for Congress establishing oversight and subpoena power over a president.
[2:06:15]And I believe Donald Trump should
[2:06:17]and will ultimately be in front of this body.
[2:06:19]And I also appreciate what you said
[2:06:22]about women and girls who were abused by Jeffrey Epstein
[2:06:25]deserving justice and healing.
[2:06:27]And that's where I'd like to focus my questions.
[2:06:29]And in particular, I want to focus on three survivors
[2:06:32]who have shared stories that involve you.
[2:06:36]So I want to begin with Maria Farmer.
[2:06:38]Do you know who Maria Farmer is?
[2:06:40]Maria Farmer was employed by Jeffrey Epstein
[2:06:43]and abused by him for a number of years.
[2:06:45]And she first reported her abuse to the New York PD and FBI in 1996.
[2:06:52]And she states that she has personal knowledge
[2:06:57]that you visited Jeffrey Epstein's house three to four times
[2:07:00]while you were the sitting president between 1995 and 1996.
[2:07:05]And she says she knows this based on photographs
[2:07:08]that Colleen Maxwell showed to her as well as discussions with the staff.
[2:07:13]So let me ask you, Mr. President,
[2:07:15]did you visit Jeffrey Epstein's house while you were president?
[2:07:20]I do not remember doing that.
[2:07:21]I do not believe I did.
[2:07:24]How do you explain this discrepancy?
[2:07:27]Objection calls for him to speculate.
[2:07:30]I can't speculate.
[2:07:33]But all I can tell you is I don't remember being there.
[2:07:36]Okay. Moving on to Virginia Roberts-Giuffre.
[2:07:40]Are you familiar with her?
[2:07:43]As has already been established,
[2:07:45]she has stated in numerous sworn statements,
[2:07:48]including a sworn deposition in the deposition in the Maxwell trial
[2:07:53]that she saw you on the island with Jeffrey Epstein.
[2:07:58]And in fact, this morning her family shared her diary with me.
[2:08:02]And in it is a quote wherein she writes,
[2:08:07]quote, Bill Clinton met two times island with two girls, C, T, G, M, and J, E.
[2:08:15]What is your reaction to that?
[2:08:17]It's not true.
[2:08:20]Do you have any dates associated with that?
[2:08:21]Were there dates on the diary?
[2:08:23]I don't have that information, but we'll be happy to share it with you.
[2:08:27]Terrific, because I think there are also
[2:08:29]records that would reflect where else he would have been.
[2:08:31]So thanks.
[2:08:33]Did she say that in her book?
[2:08:36]This is from her personal diary that her family shared with us.
[2:08:39]But the book came out more recently.
[2:08:42]Did she say that in the book?
[2:08:44]I can't.
[2:08:45]I'm just reading you the entry from her diary that her family shared with me.
[2:08:50]I think she ultimately reached a different conclusion,
[2:08:53]although I had no contact with it.
[2:08:55]Okay. Well, I just want to make sure that it's on the record
[2:08:58]that that is Virginia and Giuffre's statement.
[2:09:02]Did you ever fly in a helicopter with Galean Maxwell?
[2:09:11]Ever, anywhere?
[2:09:13]I have no idea.
[2:09:14]Okay. Well, at least one of the survivors
[2:09:18]claims that you flew in a helicopter with Galean Maxwell to the island.
[2:09:23]Did you ever?
[2:09:23]Then I did not do that.
[2:09:25]I've never been to that island.
[2:09:27]Okay.
[2:09:28]The third person I want to talk about briefly is Shante Davies.
[2:09:31]I know we've already mentioned her here today.
[2:09:35]I know you've already mentioned that she was listed as a flight attendant
[2:09:41]on the trip to South Africa in 2002 that you took with Jeffrey Epstein.
[2:09:48]Are you aware that Shante Davies is a survivor who claims she was abused
[2:09:52]for three years, including during that time period?
[2:09:56]I am now.
[2:09:58]And are you aware that Jeffrey Epstein recruited
[2:10:02]his victims through calling them masseuses?
[2:10:07]No.
[2:10:09]You're not aware that Jeffrey—
[2:10:10]But it doesn't surprise me.
[2:10:12]But I didn't know that, no.
[2:10:15]Knowing that Jeffrey Epstein recruited hundreds of minors as masseuses to massage him
[2:10:22]and knowing that this victim who was a survivor three years of his sexual abuse
[2:10:27]as a masseuse was on the plane, does that make you think about the massage
[2:10:32]you received from her differently?
[2:10:34]Can I just interrupt?
[2:10:35]You're saying, knowing you know that, he was saying that he was unaware
[2:10:39]that that's how Mr. Epstein was recruiting his individuals.
[2:10:42]I'm asking if today, hearing this—
[2:10:45]Are you seeing the picture?
[2:10:46]I have a copy of it right here.
[2:10:48]Yes.
[2:10:49]Well, I'm sitting up.
[2:10:50]I'm just asking if now that you know that Jeffrey Epstein recruited girls as masseuses,
[2:10:59]does that reframe that photograph and knowing that there were girls
[2:11:03]on the plane that were being abused?
[2:11:07]States facts not in the record.
[2:11:09]You can ask this witness what he thinks or remembers about anything that happened,
[2:11:14]but I don't think it's right to ask him to speculate.
[2:11:17]She wants to know if I feel bad about it, yes.
[2:11:21]I'm not, I think what I'm trying to get at is that there is a culture
[2:11:27]that surrounded Jeffrey Epstein in which rich and powerful people
[2:11:31]saw young women that were survivors who were being abused
[2:11:35]and didn't say anything and didn't do anything.
[2:11:38]So is your question—
[2:11:39]Hold on, part of what I'm trying to do is to ask you,
[2:11:42]we know there was a survivor that was on the plane.
[2:11:45]You've stated that you didn't know she was a survivor.
[2:11:48]I understand that.
[2:11:50]I'm asking now that you are aware that Epstein was recruiting survivors as masseuses,
[2:11:57]does this make you rethink what you saw as you were traveling and interacting with him?
[2:12:06]Wait a minute.
[2:12:06]I want to make sure that you are clearly answering her question.
[2:12:10]He's already stated what he saw and what he knew.
[2:12:13]So what you're now asking him is, given what you've now shared with him,
[2:12:18]does he think any differently about what he saw and what he knew?
[2:12:20]Yes, thank you.
[2:12:21]I wish Shante had told me.
[2:12:23]I liked her.
[2:12:25]But I didn't think it was anything unusual.
[2:12:28]I can't tell you how many airplanes I've been on
[2:12:32]where rich people asked me to go and they had someone offering them size.
[2:12:37]All these boats that you go on and all that, they all do that.
[2:12:41]And usually I don't do that.
[2:12:43]I'm not into this.
[2:12:46]Well, that certainly raises some other questions about people offering free massages on boats,
[2:12:50]etc.
[2:12:51]But I do want to enter a couple of exhibits into the record
[2:12:56]and I know council is prepared to pass them out.
[2:12:59]And while that is occurring, we're going to introduce this exhibit.
[2:13:06]What is it?
[2:13:07]Exhibit I, it'll be Minority Exhibit I, which is a FBI PowerPoint that was included
[2:13:14]in the files that were released as part of the Obscene Files Transparency Act.
[2:13:21]And then I would like to introduce this exhibit, which is Exhibit J,
[2:13:26]which is an internal correspondence, emails between the FBI.
[2:13:34]And though I'm short on time, what I'll describe in both these exhibits is that
[2:13:38]your name appears in FBI tip sheets as having attended parties in Jeffrey Epstein's presence
[2:13:46]in which sexual activities were occurring.
[2:13:48]Did you ever attend a party of any kind or an event with Jeffrey Epstein
[2:13:53]in which sexual activities were occurring?
[2:13:55]No.
[2:13:56]Okay.
[2:13:56]And then finally, there will be many millions of people that watch this deposition.
[2:14:02]What would you like to say to the survivors directly?
[2:14:04]I would say that I hope this will produce a sense of finality,
[2:14:12]and I don't think that'll happen until the government starts holding on to all the records.
[2:14:18]I think that, you know, the record should be released.
[2:14:23]And then I think that we need to come up with strategies to help people who
[2:14:28]can't get over this get better.
[2:14:31]But the most important thing we do, I think, besides treat the victims right,
[2:14:37]is increase the guardrails that will set off alarm systems and stop other people
[2:14:43]from doing the same thing Epstein did.
[2:14:46]Thank you very much, Mr. President.
[2:14:50]We had an additional member join us in the interim.
[2:14:54]Could that member just identify himself?
[2:14:56]As for – hello, Mr. President.
[2:14:58]My name is Nick Langford.
[2:14:59]I represent New York's 23rd Congressional District Buffalo suburbs.
[2:15:03]The rural southern tier.
[2:15:05]Thank you for being here today.
[2:15:07]Could you just, for the record, the time check?
[2:15:09]We've got about five minutes left in this round.
[2:15:11]Thank you so much.
[2:15:12]I like it's time.
[2:15:14]Augustin, how are you?
[2:15:15]Thank you, Mr. President.
[2:15:16]Thank you for being here and for your time today.
[2:15:18]Thank you for your service.
[2:15:20]We have, as you know, in the files that were released,
[2:15:22]there were several photos that included you.
[2:15:25]We have an exhibit here that's just one of the photos.
[2:15:30]Exhibit K, Minority Exhibit K.
[2:15:34]We'll have that passed around.
[2:15:36]What we're trying to get at is some context for the public
[2:15:40]on whether you remember this photo
[2:15:42]and any details you may be able to provide us about it.
[2:15:48]Do you recall the details of this photo or recall the photo being taken?
[2:15:52]No, I don't think I ever knew the photo was taken.
[2:15:54]And for those who can't see it, it's a photo of you in a hot tub.
[2:15:58]There's a person next to you here.
[2:16:02]Do you remember where it was taken?
[2:16:05]Where was it taken?
[2:16:06]I'm almost sure that this taken,
[2:16:08]I think there's an adjacent photograph, which you probably have,
[2:16:13]that if people saw it, they would feel that
[2:16:15]someone was trying to calm them showing this picture.
[2:16:17]But anyway, this picture was taken in Brunei
[2:16:28]and we flew one night on a trip to Asia, the last very long leg.
[2:16:40]You said we, who is that including?
[2:16:43]Well, my tele team that was working on the AIDS issue
[2:16:46]and Mr. Epstein was there and Ms. Maxwell.
[2:16:52]But anyway, we got to the end of the flight was Brunei.
[2:16:59]It's a tiny place, but a very wealthy one.
[2:17:01]And the Sultan of Brunei was a man
[2:17:05]that I had gotten to know well in my eight years as president.
[2:17:10]And he, his first involvement with international matters
[2:17:16]was basically to join the Asian Pacific Economic Leaders Conference,
[2:17:21]which I started and which he attended.
[2:17:24]And so, and then he was very proud of that.
[2:17:28]And he hosted, his time came to host it.
[2:17:31]You know, you do these things in a rotation.
[2:17:33]And it came at either at the very end of my term
[2:17:38]or maybe in the next year.
[2:17:40]Anyway, he wanted, when he knew I was coming
[2:17:43]and he said he wanted to help me with my AIDS initiative
[2:17:47]and he invited me to stay there.
[2:17:50]And he said, I want you to stay at this hotel
[2:17:52]and I hope you'll use the pool.
[2:17:56]So I did, and then I got out and went to bed exhausted.
[2:18:02]Just for the record, there's another picture
[2:18:04]that also shows this as part of the larger pool area.
[2:18:08]Do you all have that so that he can refresh his recollection
[2:18:10]with respect to that?
[2:18:11]We should have it.
[2:18:13]It's quite enlightening if you watch this.
[2:18:17]Yes, it's noted.
[2:18:18]It'll give you a different feel.
[2:18:19]Thank you.
[2:18:20]We do have it, we don't have it with us right now.
[2:18:22]Okay, thanks.
[2:18:23]I just wanted to make sure he knew the content.
[2:18:25]And so were there other people in that pool
[2:18:28]or hot tub with you as well?
[2:18:30]I don't think there's anybody in the hot tub.
[2:18:33]I hadn't forgotten that there was anybody in the hot tub
[2:18:36]but it was me, but it was about...
[2:18:39]Well, he's asking in the pool area.
[2:18:41]It appears in this photo there's a girl over here.
[2:18:43]Is there someone?
[2:18:44]Yeah, I don't know who that is.
[2:18:46]But he's also asking in the pool area
[2:18:47]were there other individuals.
[2:18:48]I don't know who that is.
[2:18:50]Okay, so you don't know?
[2:18:51]No, and then there were other people in the pool.
[2:18:54]Okay, so do you remember who, were they under 18?
[2:18:57]No.
[2:18:59]Were they part of your traveling party?
[2:19:00]He's asking you.
[2:19:05]Yes, they were I think.
[2:19:08]I think everybody there was part of our party.
[2:19:10]It was late at night in a late-ation.
[2:19:13]I also believe that there was a secret service agent
[2:19:16]there at the other end of the pool.
[2:19:18]And was this in public?
[2:19:22]No, it was a hotel room.
[2:19:25]The Sultan wanted us to stay there
[2:19:27]and the whole, the water of this big pool
[2:19:29]was on the same floor that there were several suites.
[2:19:34]So we went out.
[2:19:37]I swam around.
[2:19:38]I sat in the hot tub for five minutes,
[2:19:40]like whatever it was, and I got up and went to bed.
[2:19:43]And I have to ask this.
[2:19:45]Did you engage in any sexual activity with this person?
[2:19:47]No.
[2:19:48]Thank you.
[2:19:50]That ends this round and we can go off the record.
[2:19:52]All right, we'll go back on the record.
[2:20:10]Thank you for that.
[2:20:11]I appreciate it.
[2:20:12]Yep.
[2:20:16]Ready to go?
[2:20:17]Yep, we'll start with service.
[2:20:18]Wonderful.
[2:20:19]Hello, Mr. President.
[2:20:20]How are you?
[2:20:20]Fine.
[2:20:21]Okay, thank you so much for being here with us.
[2:20:23]Thank you for being with us.
[2:20:24]Oh, you're fine, Mr. President.
[2:20:27]Mr. President, I want to make my questions
[2:20:29]as quick and as painless as possible
[2:20:31]so we can move on with the day
[2:20:32]and hopefully not keep you here for too long.
[2:20:35]First question I have for you, Mr. President.
[2:20:37]Have you ever lied in a deposition?
[2:20:40]No.
[2:20:41]Have you ever lied while under oath?
[2:20:43]No.
[2:20:44]Thank you.
[2:20:46]Were you personally aware that Jeffrey Epstein
[2:20:51]visited the White House 17 times during your presidency?
[2:20:56]At the time it happened?
[2:20:58]Yes.
[2:20:59]No, at the time it happened I was not.
[2:21:02]Do you know, so Jeffrey Epstein never asked
[2:21:04]to meet with you personally in the White House
[2:21:06]while you were president during those 17 visits?
[2:21:09]Not to my knowledge.
[2:21:11]Would you know who he was meeting with?
[2:21:14]No.
[2:21:16]I didn't know where he was coming.
[2:21:18]Is that standard protocol for the president
[2:21:21]to not know of someone who is attending,
[2:21:25]visiting the White House 17 times?
[2:21:28]So wait, excuse me, just to be clear.
[2:21:29]While you were president.
[2:21:30]The White House office which has 1,600 employees,
[2:21:33]you're speaking of the White House office?
[2:21:35]Yes.
[2:21:36]No, I think that most presidents don't have a clue
[2:21:40]who's coming in every day
[2:21:41]unless it's somebody of personal interest
[2:21:43]of the president.
[2:21:45]Yes, and you did have a familiar relationship
[2:21:48]with Jeffrey Epstein, correct?
[2:21:50]No.
[2:21:52]I wasn't aware I'd ever met him when I was president.
[2:21:55]While you were president.
[2:21:57]We are trying to establish if Jeffrey Epstein
[2:22:00]was a foreign or potentially even a domestic asset
[2:22:04]of some kind.
[2:22:05]Do you have any reason to believe
[2:22:07]that he was trying to seek access
[2:22:10]to classified materials, intelligence reports,
[2:22:13]or sensitive government information?
[2:22:16]No, I knew nothing about this story until it came up.
[2:22:19]I was glad to see that picture.
[2:22:21]Yes, and Mr. President.
[2:22:23]Sorry to interrupt you.
[2:22:24]Mr. President, since knowing Jeffrey Epstein
[2:22:27]and knowing that he had visited the White House,
[2:22:31]were there any conversations from your associates,
[2:22:33]any White House staff or anyone familiar
[2:22:35]with the meetings that said he was seeking
[2:22:39]detailed information about government relationships?
[2:22:41]Exactly.
[2:22:41]Does that question relate to back in the day or now?
[2:22:44]What's the time of the question?
[2:22:46]I'm asking since you have been aware,
[2:22:48]any time since after you were aware
[2:22:50]that Jeffrey Epstein visited the White House 17 times,
[2:22:53]has there been any conversations with anyone
[2:22:56]that you are aware of that Jeffrey Epstein
[2:23:01]was seeking sensitive government information?
[2:23:03]She doesn't, to the best of your recollection.
[2:23:04]To the best of my knowledge, no.
[2:23:06]Yes, sir. Thank you.
[2:23:09]And moving on, at any time while you were traveling
[2:23:11]on any aircraft, owned, leased,
[2:23:14]or otherwise affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein,
[2:23:18]did you engage in sexual relations
[2:23:21]or sexual activities with anyone other than your wife?
[2:23:27]No.
[2:23:29]During any such flight, did you witness
[2:23:31]or have knowledge of any other individual
[2:23:34]engaging in sexual activities with any female passengers?
[2:23:38]No.
[2:23:40]In 2002, you participated in a 10-day multi-country trip
[2:23:44]to Africa while traveling on a Boeing 727
[2:23:47]owned by Mr. Jeffrey Epstein.
[2:23:49]This trip was organized by Delaine Maxwell.
[2:23:51]Do you recall this trip, Mr. President?
[2:23:56]I recall the trip, but I don't know
[2:23:57]that it was organized by Delaine Maxwell.
[2:24:00]Yes, sir.
[2:24:01]I believe we were going places
[2:24:02]that I needed to go for my work in Africa.
[2:24:07]Yes, sir.
[2:24:08]Internal FBI records describe the aircraft
[2:24:11]as having a section with couches adjacent to
[2:24:14]which a sliding glass door leading to another compartment,
[2:24:18]there was a bed.
[2:24:20]Are you familiar with the layout of this aircraft
[2:24:22]that you traveled on?
[2:24:25]I'm familiar with the fact that there was a bench
[2:24:27]to turn into a bed at the end of the passenger seats.
[2:24:32]And no other bed you are familiar with?
[2:24:36]Did you ever go into any part of the aircraft
[2:24:40]with a bed that you perhaps lied on or utilized?
[2:24:46]I'm familiar with the bench that turned into the bed.
[2:24:51]I do not believe I ever went into the back section.
[2:24:54]And at any time while traveling on such aircraft,
[2:25:00]do you remember utilizing either the bench that laid out?
[2:25:05]I'll keep it as one option for now.
[2:25:09]Do you remember utilizing the bench as a bed?
[2:25:15]Was it laid out as a bed?
[2:25:16]I don't remember, but that doesn't mean I didn't.
[2:25:20]I'm familiar with the note.
[2:25:22]Yes, sir.
[2:25:23]FBI internal records relay testimony
[2:25:25]from Dr. Greg Bledsoe who participated
[2:25:28]on the 2002 Africa trip.
[2:25:30]Did Dr. Bledsoe describe multiple millionaires?
[2:25:34]Dr. Bledsoe does describe multiple millionaires
[2:25:36]and billionaires on the plane.
[2:25:39]Do you remember any of the names of those individuals,
[2:25:42]potentially even the actor Kevin Spacey?
[2:25:47]Yeah, Kevin was on the plane.
[2:25:50]Did Dr. Bledsoe also describe,
[2:25:53]he also describes multiple young women were present
[2:25:56]on the flights and that Maxwell appeared
[2:25:58]to be in a position over the girls on the plane
[2:26:02]and was directing the girls.
[2:26:04]Can you describe the purpose of these women participating
[2:26:08]in this multi-count country trip?
[2:26:10]Jackson, to form the question,
[2:26:11]no objection to you asking the president what he saw,
[2:26:14]observed, heard, but he can't possibly speak
[2:26:17]to what Maxwell was in her mind.
[2:26:20]Did you witness, Mr. President,
[2:26:22]Ms. Maxwell appearing to be in the position
[2:26:25]over other girls on the plane
[2:26:28]and possibly directing the girls?
[2:26:33]Well, I thought that she was Epstein's top aide
[2:26:37]and that she was basically in charge of what happened.
[2:26:42]What did happen, Mr. President?
[2:26:44]I don't know.
[2:26:45]I've already told you this.
[2:26:46]I'll tell you again.
[2:26:48]I never saw anybody do anything wrong.
[2:26:51]I thought they were flight attendants.
[2:26:53]Do flight attendants typically wear tank tops and jeans?
[2:27:02]They don't all wear uniforms on private planes.
[2:27:05]Yes, sir.
[2:27:06]Most are dressed probably pretty business class,
[2:27:09]but moving on.
[2:27:10]His testimony was with respect to private aircraft,
[2:27:14]people are not wearing uniforms.
[2:27:18]Correct.
[2:27:21]Dr. Bledsoe described at least one of the girls
[2:27:23]serving as a masseuse.
[2:27:26]At any point, did you or other male passengers
[2:27:29]receive a massage from this young woman
[2:27:32]or any other young women who are described as a masseuse?
[2:27:39]Well, I've seen one picture that shows
[2:27:42]that in an airport waiting area,
[2:27:50]one of the women was rubbing, was massaging my neck.
[2:27:54]That's all I've seen.
[2:27:56]Have you received more than one massage
[2:28:00]from these trips with Mr. Epstein
[2:28:04]and the young girls that were present?
[2:28:06]I don't recall them, but the problem I remember
[2:28:11]from that trip was that my neck had spasms
[2:28:14]and I was in...
[2:28:16]And so they offered to help and I let them help.
[2:28:20]She asked whether or not you recalled
[2:28:21]any other massage trips.
[2:28:22]No, you're not.
[2:28:24]Thank you.
[2:28:26]Mr. President, moving on to my next question.
[2:28:31]Submitted to the record, we have a painting
[2:28:35]that seems to be of you, Mr. President,
[2:28:38]found in one of Jeffrey Epstein's residences
[2:28:41]wearing a...
[2:28:44]I would categorize it as a famous blue dress
[2:28:47]worn by the White House intern, Monica Lewinsky.
[2:28:53]I have this image here.
[2:28:54]This image is being passed around.
[2:28:55]If we need to go off the record while we do that, we can.
[2:28:59]I can take the picture.
[2:29:01]Do you have a question?
[2:29:02]It will be marked as Majority Exhibit 15.
[2:29:09]So Mr. President, we are looking at an image
[2:29:12]of a portrait that looks to be you, Mr. President,
[2:29:20]in this blue dress.
[2:29:22]Can you describe this painting
[2:29:24]He doesn't need to describe the painting.
[2:29:26]You just gave him a picture.
[2:29:26]What's your question?
[2:29:27]My question is, are you familiar with this painting?
[2:29:30]Have you ever seen it in person?
[2:29:31]I've never seen it in person.
[2:29:33]Do you know why someone would paint this?
[2:29:36]Are you asking me that?
[2:29:36]Objection.
[2:29:37]That's cause for speculation.
[2:29:38]You can ask the artist.
[2:29:39]And if I had known Jeffrey Epstein had this painting,
[2:29:43]it would have saved me this whole day.
[2:29:46]Did you ever introduce Epstein to Monica Lewinsky
[2:29:49]or any other young female White House staffers?
[2:29:53]I did not.
[2:29:54]Did Epstein ever request introductions
[2:29:57]to young female intern staffers of you?
[2:30:00]Did he request you to introduce him?
[2:30:03]And one regarding this exhibit, Exhibit 15,
[2:30:07]this portrait to the right of this image,
[2:30:10]there appears to be a plain letterhead document
[2:30:13]that is framed in a gold frame.
[2:30:16]Are you familiar with
[2:30:18]That he's testified that he's not seen this picture?
[2:30:21]The painting we asked, yes.
[2:30:22]And now I'm asking about the image next to it.
[2:30:25]Are you asking whether or not he's familiar
[2:30:27]with what's in this small frame?
[2:30:29]The part that you have covered up,
[2:30:31]I'm asking if he's familiar with this letterhead
[2:30:35]letter that was hand-painted.
[2:30:36]Is this part of the painting?
[2:30:38]No, sir.
[2:30:39]This is next to the painting
[2:30:40]and it's framed on the wall
[2:30:42]in the home of Jeffrey Epstein.
[2:30:44]I guess a better way to ask,
[2:30:47]other than the birthday note
[2:30:48]that was passed around here today
[2:30:50]for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday,
[2:30:52]Mr. President, did you ever hand-write
[2:30:54]Jeffrey Epstein any other notes?
[2:31:00]Well, I wouldn't remember
[2:31:03]except that I've seen a picture recently
[2:31:06]of another note where I thank him
[2:31:08]for getting me away from the crowd
[2:31:10]on the airplane for a while
[2:31:12]so I could take a note now.
[2:31:14]Yes.
[2:31:14]Okay, Mr. President,
[2:31:15]I just have two more questions for you
[2:31:17]and then I will let you go.
[2:31:18]And again, I'm so grateful
[2:31:19]for your time here today.
[2:31:21]We also have another exhibit
[2:31:24]from the committee
[2:31:26]and it's page 49, I believe,
[2:31:29]and the, how do you want to classify this one?
[2:31:33]Okay.
[2:31:33]It will be marked as majority exhibit 16.
[2:31:38]In this, this is a portion
[2:31:40]of Virginia Joufray and her testimony
[2:31:46]and in it she is referencing you,
[2:31:48]Mr. President,
[2:31:49]and says he, Mr. Clinton,
[2:31:53]told me long ago
[2:31:54]that everyone owes him favors.
[2:31:56]They are all in each other's pockets.
[2:31:59]She's asked, I'm sorry,
[2:32:01]maybe that wasn't you
[2:32:01]that you were referencing, Clinton.
[2:32:03]I'll start over.
[2:32:04]He told me long ago
[2:32:05]that everyone owes him favors.
[2:32:06]I believe that's referring to Mr. Epstein.
[2:32:08]They're all in each other's pockets.
[2:32:09]I'm sorry, could you say
[2:32:10]what line are you starting at?
[2:32:11]Yes, ma'am.
[2:32:12]I'm starting at the first line
[2:32:14]and I do believe I incorrectly said
[2:32:16]that she was referencing Mr. Clinton.
[2:32:19]So to correct that.
[2:32:20]She's not referencing President Clinton.
[2:32:24]She's referencing instead who?
[2:32:26]I believe this is Jeffrey Epstein
[2:32:27]that she is referencing here.
[2:32:28]Thank you, Ms. Bobo.
[2:32:29]Thank you.
[2:32:30]And then she's asked,
[2:32:31]would you say you asked him
[2:32:33]why Bill Clinton here was here?
[2:32:37]And Virginia responds on the island,
[2:32:41]where he was here on the island.
[2:32:43]And she goes on to say.
[2:32:48]Excuse me.
[2:32:49]Can you clarify who J.S. is?
[2:32:52]Can we look and see who J.S. is?
[2:32:53]It says V and then it says J.S.
[2:32:55]So is this a-
[2:32:55]I will get you that name.
[2:32:58]But this is a conversation
[2:32:59]between two people
[2:33:00]or is this a transcript
[2:33:01]of a deposition?
[2:33:02]This is a transcript of a deposition.
[2:33:04]Thank you so much.
[2:33:04]It says telecon at the top.
[2:33:06]Doesn't appear to be a deposition.
[2:33:08]It says what we have this as.
[2:33:13]I'm not objecting.
[2:33:14]No, that's fine.
[2:33:14]And we could go off the record
[2:33:15]if you want just to get this.
[2:33:17]I don't have this.
[2:33:18]So this is-
[2:33:19]Go ahead.
[2:33:20]We'll go off the record.
[2:33:31]We can go back on the record.
[2:33:33]Thank you very much.
[2:33:33]And this is a long dialogue
[2:33:36]between Mr. Jack Scarola
[2:33:40]and Virginia Giuffre.
[2:33:41]And I will summarize this.
[2:33:44]It is mentioned by Virginia
[2:33:47]that everyone owes him,
[2:33:51]presumably Jeffrey Epstein here,
[2:33:53]favors.
[2:33:54]Mr. President, were you ever
[2:33:56]in the position to owe
[2:33:58]Jeffrey Epstein a favor?
[2:34:01]I didn't consider that.
[2:34:02]I thought we had an understanding
[2:34:03]about the airplanes
[2:34:05]that he would let me use
[2:34:07]the airplane to set up
[2:34:10]my AIDS programs around the world.
[2:34:13]If I agreed to talk to him
[2:34:15]for an hour about economics
[2:34:16]and politics on every long leg.
[2:34:19]I kept my word
[2:34:20]and he seemed to honor his.
[2:34:23]Were there any sensitive
[2:34:25]government topics ever discussed
[2:34:27]in those conversations?
[2:34:28]And also here-
[2:34:29]Just for the record,
[2:34:30]did the court reporter
[2:34:31]get his response?
[2:34:32]Thank you so much.
[2:34:32]Thank you.
[2:34:33]Sorry, I was trying to talk over you.
[2:34:35]Wrapping up here.
[2:34:38]Virginia Giuffre is also asked
[2:34:39]in this document.
[2:34:41]The same one you handed us?
[2:34:42]Yes, ma'am.
[2:34:43]So we should be looking at-
[2:34:45]This is one, two, three, four,
[2:34:46]five, six, seven, eight lines down.
[2:34:50]J.S. is speaking.
[2:34:51]Were sexual orgies
[2:34:53]a regular occurrence on the island
[2:34:55]at Giuffre's house?
[2:34:56]Yes.
[2:34:57]My question, Mr. President,
[2:34:58]were you ever aware
[2:35:00]or engaged in any of these sexual orgies?
[2:35:04]Are these on the island
[2:35:05]where he's testified that he's-
[2:35:06]No, ma'am.
[2:35:06]I was never on the island.
[2:35:09]Were you ever on any island
[2:35:12]in the Virgin Islands?
[2:35:15]To travel for a trip with his wife,
[2:35:17]which is on the public record?
[2:35:19]I'm sorry.
[2:35:19]Would Giuffre have seen?
[2:35:20]No.
[2:35:22]You were never in the Virginia Islands?
[2:35:23]In the Virgin Islands with Giuffre Epstein?
[2:35:25]No.
[2:35:25]Okay.
[2:35:26]Thank you.
[2:35:27]Mr. President,
[2:35:29]there's been new information
[2:35:30]that has come out regarding
[2:35:32]the autopsy of Mr. Epstein.
[2:35:35]I would just like to ask you
[2:35:37]personally and directly,
[2:35:38]do you believe that
[2:35:39]Giuffre Epstein killed himself?
[2:35:40]Are you asking him to speculate
[2:35:42]on how Mr. Epstein died?
[2:35:43]I'm asking what the President thinks of-
[2:35:46]So you're asking his opinion?
[2:35:48]Mr. President,
[2:35:49]was your friend,
[2:35:50]Giuffre Epstein, suicidal?
[2:35:51]Are you classifying him as a friend
[2:35:53]who he has testified
[2:35:54]that he was friendly?
[2:35:54]He has called him a friend in a letter.
[2:35:55]He said he was friendly,
[2:35:57]but you've asked for his testimony here.
[2:35:58]Mr. President,
[2:35:59]do you believe that
[2:35:59]Giuffre Epstein was suicidal?
[2:36:03]Do you know?
[2:36:03]Was he ever suicidal?
[2:36:05]I don't know.
[2:36:06]I only know what the medical finding was.
[2:36:10]I think maybe he finally got caught
[2:36:14]and I don't know.
[2:36:17]I've accepted it in my own mind.
[2:36:19]I don't know what happened.
[2:36:20]Mr. President,
[2:36:21]what did you accept?
[2:36:22]That he killed himself
[2:36:23]or that he did not?
[2:36:24]That he did,
[2:36:25]but I don't know.
[2:36:26]Yes, sir.
[2:36:27]Thank you, Mr. President.
[2:36:28]None of us know.
[2:36:29]We weren't there.
[2:36:30]Mr. President,
[2:36:31]it's been an honor.
[2:36:31]Thank you.
[2:36:32]Thank you.
[2:36:33]Mr. President,
[2:36:44]in the previous hour
[2:36:45]you discussed your relationship
[2:36:47]with Ms. Maxwell
[2:36:48]and I have a few general
[2:36:51]follow-up questions
[2:36:53]and I may make you repeat yourself,
[2:36:57]but I'll try hard
[2:36:58]to not ask you questions
[2:36:59]you've already answered.
[2:37:01]First, can you characterize
[2:37:03]your relationship
[2:37:04]with Ms. Maxwell
[2:37:05]after your presidency?
[2:37:06]Oh, I didn't.
[2:37:14]To the best of my memory,
[2:37:15]I didn't see her very much
[2:37:16]until she started.
[2:37:18]I started flying on Mr. Epstein's airplane.
[2:37:22]And for the record,
[2:37:23]would you at any time
[2:37:25]ever consider her to be a friend?
[2:37:28]Oh, yes, I would.
[2:37:31]What years would you consider her
[2:37:32]to be a friend?
[2:37:34]I don't know.
[2:37:36]When she started going with Ted White,
[2:37:42]I saw her more frequently
[2:37:45]because I saw him more frequently.
[2:37:47]Then she was around CGI.
[2:37:49]So if you compare the time
[2:37:53]I spent with her
[2:37:54]to the time I spent with Mr. Epstein,
[2:37:58]I spent more time
[2:37:59]and I felt that we were better friends.
[2:38:04]How did you typically communicate
[2:38:06]with Ms. Maxwell?
[2:38:09]When she showed up
[2:38:11]for something that I was doing.
[2:38:14]So in person?
[2:38:16]At CGI, yeah.
[2:38:19]I bet I never talked to her
[2:38:20]on the phone more than twice
[2:38:21]in my life.
[2:38:24]And what were the nature
[2:38:26]of your communications
[2:38:27]with Ms. Maxwell?
[2:38:33]What your call?
[2:38:35]I don't recall anything.
[2:38:36]I don't recall what they were,
[2:38:37]but she was always, you know,
[2:38:41]I don't know.
[2:38:41]She was very interested in CGI.
[2:38:44]I remember that.
[2:38:45]And that's it.
[2:38:49]For the record, Mr. President,
[2:38:51]did you ever have
[2:38:52]any communications with Ms. Maxwell
[2:38:54]related to young women or girls?
[2:38:56]No.
[2:38:57]At this time,
[2:38:58]I'd like to introduce
[2:38:59]what will be marked
[2:39:00]as Majority Exhibit 17.
[2:39:04]And while it's being handed out,
[2:39:05]I will note for the record
[2:39:07]that this is the transcript
[2:39:08]from the two-day
[2:39:09]Colleen Maxwell interview
[2:39:10]with Deputy Attorney General
[2:39:12]Todd Blanch,
[2:39:13]conducted by the Department of Justice
[2:39:15]on July 24th and 25th of 2025.
[2:39:19]And I will not be making you read
[2:39:22]the entire transcript.
[2:39:23]I will direct your attention
[2:39:25]when you've had a chance.
[2:39:26]Okay.
[2:39:28]Mr. President,
[2:39:29]have you seen this transcript
[2:39:31]prior to today?
[2:39:32]Before?
[2:39:33]Yes.
[2:39:33]No.
[2:39:35]I'd like to direct your attention
[2:39:36]to day one,
[2:39:37]and we are looking specifically
[2:39:39]at the bottom of page nine.
[2:39:42]Yep.
[2:39:43]Okay.
[2:39:44]And we need a copy down here.
[2:39:47]Do we have a second copy
[2:39:48]and a third copy?
[2:39:50]Give me one second.
[2:39:51]Thank you so much.
[2:39:51]We'll go off the record briefly.
[2:40:02]We will go back on the record.
[2:40:05]Yep.
[2:40:06]During Ms. Maxwell's interview,
[2:40:07]she stated that President Clinton
[2:40:09]was her friend,
[2:40:10]not Epstein's friend.
[2:40:12]Is that accurate?
[2:40:14]I would say that it was
[2:40:17]accurate to say that
[2:40:18]I felt closer to her than to him.
[2:40:20]And for the record,
[2:40:21]why was that?
[2:40:24]Because I had seen her more,
[2:40:26]and because she was
[2:40:28]very good friends with
[2:40:30]Evelyn Rothschild
[2:40:31]and his wife, Lynne,
[2:40:34]whom I knew
[2:40:34]and was in regular touch with.
[2:40:39]And then there's a page nine.
[2:40:41]And...
[2:40:42]Okay.
[2:40:44]Just want to make sure
[2:40:45]you're reading the right section.
[2:40:48]She characterized your relationship
[2:40:51]with her as warmer.
[2:40:55]Is that your question?
[2:40:55]Would you agree with that?
[2:41:00]Warmer than with Jeffrey Epstein?
[2:41:01]Correct.
[2:41:03]Oh, yes.
[2:41:04]But it was not in any way sexual.
[2:41:08]At this time,
[2:41:09]I'd like to direct your attention
[2:41:10]to day two of the transcript.
[2:41:12]And now we are looking
[2:41:13]at the bottom of page 12.
[2:41:16]And it is page...
[2:41:17]I see it.
[2:41:18]258 and 259.
[2:41:22]Wait, pardon me.
[2:41:23]Sorry, I'm not with you.
[2:41:24]Bottom of page 12 says 42 to 45.
[2:41:29]Of day two.
[2:41:30]Oh, sorry.
[2:41:31]I apologize.
[2:41:32]Okay.
[2:41:33]Day two, page 12.
[2:41:35]Yes.
[2:41:36]Page 252.
[2:41:38]257 to 264.
[2:41:40]258 and 259.
[2:41:43]Okay.
[2:41:44]Got it.
[2:41:46]Can you hold for one second?
[2:41:47]Can you wait?
[2:42:07]258, 259?
[2:42:09]Correct.
[2:42:09]Got it.
[2:42:10]Are you asking us to read that?
[2:42:17]Yes.
[2:42:18]All of 258 and all of 259?
[2:42:21]Correct.
[2:42:43]Is there part of this you want me to read?
[2:42:45]No.
[2:42:45]He has a question.
[2:42:46]He wants to make sure you've read through here.
[2:42:48]Two pages.
[2:42:48]And you've read through here.
[2:42:50]Okay.
[2:43:27]He's asking about these two.
[2:43:29]You've read them?
[2:43:32]This and this.
[2:43:33]No, you don't have to read the other part yet.
[2:43:45]Ready?
[2:43:47]Yes.
[2:43:48]Got it.
[2:43:49]Mr. President,
[2:43:50]you've had a chance to review the transcript.
[2:43:52]Here Blanche asks Maxwell
[2:43:55]if she has ever visited your home in Chabot
[2:43:57]to which Maxwell testifies
[2:43:59]that she had been invited to visit your home.
[2:44:03]For the record,
[2:44:03]did Miss Maxwell ever visit your home in Chabot-Bois?
[2:44:09]It wouldn't surprise us.
[2:44:09]Excuse me, Council.
[2:44:10]The transcript says I went to the house.
[2:44:13]Does it say invited?
[2:44:14]Did I miss that?
[2:44:16]Maxwell replies after Blanche asks
[2:44:19]why didn't you go to the house?
[2:44:20]Maxwell says I was invited.
[2:44:22]Got it.
[2:44:25]I will repeat the question again.
[2:44:26]Did Miss Maxwell ever visit your home in Chabot-Bois?
[2:44:32]I don't recall, but it's quite possible she did.
[2:44:34]We had, Hillary was a senator.
[2:44:38]In the beginning, she had a lot of events there.
[2:44:42]And we knew, we knew her.
[2:44:46]During the same exchange,
[2:44:49]Miss Maxwell implies that she may have
[2:44:51]been just driving past Chabot-Bois
[2:44:54]and stopped in if you were home.
[2:44:56]Did this ever occur?
[2:45:00]If you don't.
[2:45:01]Not that I remember, but I may not have been home.
[2:45:07]But Mr. President, is it common for people
[2:45:09]to just stop by your house?
[2:45:12]No.
[2:45:16]One or two people who do that.
[2:45:18]So for the record, you're a former president.
[2:45:21]Does your security detail allow people
[2:45:23]to show up on an ounce?
[2:45:25]Well, they allow them to,
[2:45:27]but your question is whether or not
[2:45:28]the security allows them in.
[2:45:32]Yeah, you know, they have to be clear
[2:45:34]to be able to come and go.
[2:45:37]Thank you.
[2:45:41]Thank you, Mr. President.
[2:45:45]I want to ask about Doug Band.
[2:45:49]What was Doug Band's relationship with you, sir?
[2:45:54]Well, it changed over time,
[2:45:55]but he was basically the last
[2:45:59]in a long line of young men.
[2:46:03]They were my sort of body people.
[2:46:06]They were close to me
[2:46:08]and close to get me where I was trying to go
[2:46:11]all the time and all of that.
[2:46:13]And then after he and another young man,
[2:46:17]Justin Cooper, wanted to come with me
[2:46:21]when I left the White House.
[2:46:24]When you leave the White House,
[2:46:25]they give you a certain allocation for staff.
[2:46:33]And I think there have been nine positions
[2:46:39]you can put on federal health insurance.
[2:46:43]I think that's right.
[2:46:44]But anyway, Doug and Justin were two of them.
[2:46:48]So let's say he's pretty close.
[2:46:50]What?
[2:46:50]You were pretty close.
[2:46:51]We were close, and Justin wrote my book with me
[2:46:56]and he did all the clerical work.
[2:46:59]And Doug was our main fundraiser
[2:47:02]when we started off.
[2:47:04]I'd like to introduce Majority Exhibit,
[2:47:06]I believe it would be 18,
[2:47:09]which is the EFTA 02332287.
[2:47:14]Thank you very much.
[2:47:15]So this is pretty short.
[2:47:38]This is an email from Doug Band to...
[2:47:41]Yep, I'm familiar with it.
[2:47:42]...to GMACS,
[2:47:44]which is commonly known as Glan Maxwell.
[2:47:46]Yep.
[2:47:47]It says, for the record,
[2:47:49]the email states, you back,
[2:47:52]the email states, you back.
[2:47:53]Another way to get in touch with me quicker
[2:47:55]is on my BlackBerry, actually the President's,
[2:47:57]but we share it.
[2:48:00]The email that's listed there, WJC,
[2:48:03]is that your email address?
[2:48:06]Or was that your email address?
[2:48:10]Practically no.
[2:48:11]That is, I never sent one email on it.
[2:48:14]But you recognize that.
[2:48:16]I recognize it.
[2:48:17]And I think Doug thought it would increase his
[2:48:21]cache if he had an email with WSAC on it.
[2:48:27]But he's asking you,
[2:48:28]is this your email, Mr. President?
[2:48:30]No, I didn't send, I didn't send emails on it.
[2:48:33]Did you share a BlackBerry with Mr. Band?
[2:48:37]Well, he says we did,
[2:48:38]but I think I had,
[2:48:38]I finally got another at BlackBerry.
[2:48:40]But this was back before...
[2:48:41]Okay, sorry.
[2:48:42]Mr. President, this is back in,
[2:48:44]think of the year, look at the year,
[2:48:46]so you make sure you're answering the question.
[2:48:47]2001.
[2:48:48]Did you have a phone in 2000?
[2:48:51]He's asking you, was this your BlackBerry,
[2:48:52]or did you share this BlackBerry with him?
[2:48:56]Well, I'd been out of office then nine months.
[2:48:59]Did you have a phone, Mr. President?
[2:49:00]I don't think I did.
[2:49:03]I don't, anyway, but the truth is I don't remember.
[2:49:07]I just know that I did not email.
[2:49:10]Okay, so you did not email.
[2:49:13]How often do you send emails?
[2:49:15]Or did you send emails?
[2:49:16]Have you ever sent an email, Mr. President?
[2:49:18]I sent one email to John Glenn,
[2:49:21]Senator John Glenn when he was in space at age 77.
[2:49:26]And I sent an email to the men and women
[2:49:31]aboard a U.S. ship in the Adriatic during the Kosovo War.
[2:49:39]Have you sent any other emails, Mr. President?
[2:49:41]He's asking.
[2:49:42]Since then, I'm not sure I've sent one.
[2:49:44]Okay, I'd like to introduce Majority Exhibit No. 19.
[2:49:49]It's being certified.
[2:49:51]Which is in 2335030?
[2:49:55]Yeah, one against two.
[2:50:17]Okay, if you're ready, I'll be happy to read it out loud.
[2:50:22]Again, it's from GMAX, Ghislaine Maxwell.
[2:50:25]We believe, while it's redacted,
[2:50:27]having seen the under-redacted files,
[2:50:29]we believe that the two is to the same email.
[2:50:34]It says, sorry to hear about the Bellsburg stuff is bad news.
[2:50:38]Even worse, that it may be damaging.
[2:50:41]You know that one of my pet fears is that in London,
[2:50:45]I am press toxic.
[2:50:47]So I hope that I never add to your woes in that department.
[2:50:52]If I hear anything, I will, of course, let you know.
[2:50:56]I could not help myself.
[2:50:58]There was one juicy little bit-to-bit I did let out.
[2:51:04]The one about what a super stud that you are,
[2:51:09]and how I have a crush on you,
[2:51:11]and how you are hung like a horse.
[2:51:14]Well, you get the picture.
[2:51:15]Hope you don't mind.
[2:51:20]Are you familiar with this email?
[2:51:23]Are you saying at the time it was sent
[2:51:24]or in the preparation for this?
[2:51:27]At the time that it was sent?
[2:51:28]Were you familiar with it?
[2:51:29]Oh, no.
[2:51:30]Are you familiar with it before?
[2:51:31]Yes, okay, I'm famous.
[2:51:33]What can you tell me about your knowledge of this email?
[2:51:36]So if his knowledge is only from when he was prepared
[2:51:39]for this hearing,
[2:51:40]what would have been with his counsel?
[2:51:41]Or is that what you're asking for outside
[2:51:43]of any preparation for this series?
[2:51:45]Mr. President, do you believe that Mr. Bant
[2:51:48]sent this or received this email?
[2:51:51]I do.
[2:51:51]Okay, so there's more.
[2:51:56]Let me go to the next one.
[2:51:58]Exhibit, which would be number 20.
[2:52:06]And the answer is, I don't know.
[2:52:09]There's no question.
[2:52:10]At the time.
[2:52:10]I would just ask you to clarify
[2:52:12]whether or not you're asking
[2:52:13]if he knows about these emails
[2:52:14]at the time they were sent
[2:52:15]or if you're asking whether or not
[2:52:17]he came to learn about them
[2:52:18]in the course of preparation
[2:52:19]just so that distinction in time is clear.
[2:52:22]Okay, I believe this email is also very short.
[2:52:40]It's just at the top.
[2:52:42]Again, it's from the WJC email, same one and two.
[2:52:47]It says, this email is silly.
[2:52:49]I want to spank bottoms tonight.
[2:52:51]Who's it from?
[2:52:54]It's from the same email account,
[2:52:56]the same email that has been used before,
[2:52:58]the WJC email.
[2:53:01]What was your knowledge
[2:53:02]of Mr. Bant's relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell?
[2:53:07]I knew he was, but basically he contacted her
[2:53:11]in the same way that she represented Epstein
[2:53:16]on things I did not know nor did I need to know
[2:53:22]that they had a personal relationship for a while.
[2:53:25]A physical relationship?
[2:53:28]Are you asking him whether or not
[2:53:29]they had a physical relationship?
[2:53:31]You believe they had a physical relationship?
[2:53:33]I don't know for sure.
[2:53:35]And just to be clear, you said it,
[2:53:36]but you did not have a physical relationship
[2:53:39]with Ghislaine Maxwell.
[2:53:39]The president answered
[2:53:40]that question multiple times.
[2:53:43]Okay, and then finally,
[2:53:46]I want to move on to another question
[2:53:53]regarding the business to the White House.
[2:53:57]Are you familiar with Mark Middleton?
[2:53:59]Yes.
[2:54:00]Can you describe who Mark Middleton was?
[2:54:04]He was a young man from Arkansas
[2:54:08]who was really ambitious,
[2:54:11]wanted to go to work in Washington,
[2:54:13]wanted to have, you know,
[2:54:15]and he knew Matt McClarty,
[2:54:18]my chief of staff who was from Little Rock
[2:54:20]and Bruce Lindsay who was also from Little Rock.
[2:54:25]And he worked with us and then later,
[2:54:28]I think he became, I don't know,
[2:54:33]but maybe he became a lobbyist later,
[2:54:35]but there was a period of time
[2:54:37]when he was in a position
[2:54:39]to wave people in to the White House
[2:54:41]because he was, that was one of his jobs.
[2:54:45]Okay.
[2:54:48]So he was, has been identified
[2:54:52]by multiple news sources to be
[2:54:54]the individual that most of the time
[2:54:56]was entering or signing in Jeffrey Epstein
[2:54:59]into the White House.
[2:55:00]Yes.
[2:55:01]And what role did he have
[2:55:02]specifically at that time?
[2:55:04]He was working, you know,
[2:55:09]on logistical things in the White House,
[2:55:11]but there must have been someone
[2:55:13]else who he told him to let him in.
[2:55:17]Maybe Mark had the,
[2:55:18]I don't know if he had the authority
[2:55:19]to let people in.
[2:55:20]He can only testify to what you know.
[2:55:21]He's asking who did Mark Middleton
[2:55:23]work for in the White House?
[2:55:25]I don't know the answer to that.
[2:55:27]Okay.
[2:55:28]I can find that.
[2:55:30]So knowing that he met with Mark Middleton
[2:55:32]or was signed in with Mark Middleton,
[2:55:34]do you have any knowledge of the content
[2:55:37]of the meetings or the topics of the meetings
[2:55:39]that Mr. Epstein would be coming for?
[2:55:42]No, I never,
[2:55:46]Mac never said anything to me
[2:55:47]about meeting with him.
[2:55:50]And by Mac, do you mean Mac McClarty,
[2:55:52]Chief of Staff?
[2:55:52]Did he work for Mac McClarty?
[2:55:54]Well, he might have been.
[2:55:55]But at the time,
[2:55:57]was this at the beginning
[2:55:58]of my presidency or at the end?
[2:56:01]This would have, well,
[2:56:02]this would have been during the time,
[2:56:04]during the 90s at the beginning.
[2:56:05]1993 to 1995 is what they provided
[2:56:08]before the time for the visits.
[2:56:10]He was my first Chief of Staff
[2:56:13]and then he became my special envoy
[2:56:15]to Latin America.
[2:56:16]So then this is Mac McClarty.
[2:56:18]Mac McClarty.
[2:56:19]So it depends on,
[2:56:25]we could tell what he was doing
[2:56:28]if we knew when this happened.
[2:56:31]Okay. Are you aware that
[2:56:32]Mr. Middleton committed suicide?
[2:56:35]Yes, I am.
[2:56:35]In 2022.
[2:56:38]He was found dead at Hefner Ranch,
[2:56:41]approximately 30 miles from his home
[2:56:44]in Little Rock.
[2:56:45]He was discovered hanging from a tree
[2:56:47]by an extension cord around his neck
[2:56:50]with a self-inflicted gunshot
[2:56:52]wound to the chest.
[2:56:54]So he was shot and hung.
[2:57:00]Do you have any information
[2:57:02]that leads you to suspect
[2:57:04]that he was, that he did not,
[2:57:06]that he did something
[2:57:07]other than commit suicide?
[2:57:09]No.
[2:57:12]Okay.
[2:57:12]Do you have any concerns that he,
[2:57:14]that this was in relation to his knowledge
[2:57:17]or relationship with Jeffrey Epstein
[2:57:19]given the date?
[2:57:22]That the President has already
[2:57:23]testified to the fact that he was
[2:57:25]unaware that Mr. Epstein
[2:57:26]was visiting the White House.
[2:57:27]So are you asking him then
[2:57:28]as to what he would have known?
[2:57:30]I'm asking when you heard about the death,
[2:57:31]knowing about the things that have been,
[2:57:34]you know, at this point,
[2:57:35]it's all over the news
[2:57:37]seeing that he has committed suicide.
[2:57:39]Have you ever had any conversations
[2:57:41]with people about whether or not
[2:57:42]this, that there's any relationship
[2:57:44]between the two?
[2:57:46]Oh, no.
[2:57:47]No one's ever suggested it to me.
[2:57:49]Okay.
[2:57:50]Thank you.
[2:57:51]I go back.
[2:57:54]Next up, Mr.
[2:57:55]It's really sad.
[2:57:57]It is.
[2:57:57]Mr. LeBlire from Virginia.
[2:58:01]He represents UVA.
[2:58:04]He represents UVA.
[2:58:05]He represents UVA.
[2:58:14]Thank you, Mr. President, for being here.
[2:58:16]I served in Navy Special Warfare
[2:58:17]during your presidency.
[2:58:19]Thank you.
[2:58:20]In your opening statement,
[2:58:21]you talked about
[2:58:24]preventing future or more human trafficking
[2:58:27]in our country,
[2:58:28]and I agree with that.
[2:58:29]I think that's one of the big purposes
[2:58:30]of being here.
[2:58:31]Today, we hope we can get justice
[2:58:34]for the victims,
[2:58:35]have accountability and transparency.
[2:58:39]Just curious,
[2:58:39]have you read the Epstein files
[2:58:41]that have been released?
[2:58:43]No.
[2:58:44]I've read many news stories about them,
[2:58:47]but I haven't read them all.
[2:58:48]And how many Epstein files
[2:58:50]do you recall were released
[2:58:51]during the Biden administration?
[2:58:53]I don't know.
[2:58:55]How many?
[2:58:56]If you know.
[2:58:57]I don't know.
[2:58:58]Zero.
[2:58:59]And how many Epstein files
[2:59:00]have been released during
[2:59:01]President Trump's second term?
[2:59:04]If you know.
[2:59:05]Thanks to the Congress
[2:59:06]and the victims quite a number.
[2:59:08]Over three million.
[2:59:11]Now, as President,
[2:59:13]you're Chief Executive for the U.S.,
[2:59:15]and as we get to the end of this,
[2:59:17]I'm going to ask you,
[2:59:18]what could we do to prevent?
[2:59:20]So I think that's what we all care.
[2:59:21]About is what do we do to prevent
[2:59:22]more human trafficking type stuff?
[2:59:26]So let's talk about Kevin Spacey
[2:59:27]for a second.
[2:59:28]In a June 2024 interview
[2:59:29]on Piers Morgan,
[2:59:30]Kevin Spacey recounted
[2:59:32]notice of young girls
[2:59:33]on the flight and expressed
[2:59:34]he didn't want to be around
[2:59:36]this guy Epstein
[2:59:36]because it felt he put
[2:59:38]the president at risk
[2:59:39]on that trip to South Africa
[2:59:41]because there were these young girls.
[2:59:42]So did Mr. Spacey ever communicate
[2:59:44]these concerns to you directly?
[2:59:48]Not that I recall, no.
[2:59:50]Did anyone else express
[2:59:51]similar concerns about
[2:59:52]these young people?
[2:59:53]No.
[2:59:54]Do you agree with Mr. Spacey's
[2:59:56]characterization
[2:59:57]that these young girls
[2:59:59]on the flight were concerned?
[3:00:01]I'm sorry.
[3:00:02]What exactly is the
[3:00:03]characterization that Mr. Spacey gave?
[3:00:07]That these young girls
[3:00:08]would put the president at risk.
[3:00:10]So that's Mr. Spacey's concern,
[3:00:12]and you're asking him
[3:00:12]whether or not Mr. Spacey said that,
[3:00:14]shared that with him?
[3:00:15]Would he? Yes.
[3:00:16]Would he agree with that?
[3:00:19]I had no reason to believe that at the time.
[3:00:22]Okay.
[3:00:23]Did you ever feel uncomfortable
[3:00:24]due to the presence of young girls
[3:00:25]on any of these flights?
[3:00:27]When you say young girls,
[3:00:28]do you mean women who are
[3:00:30]younger than 18?
[3:00:32]And so you're saying
[3:00:33]there were women younger than 18?
[3:00:34]I'm asking.
[3:00:35]Yeah. If you can ask that question.
[3:00:37]Were there anybody on the flights
[3:00:38]that you can recall under age 18?
[3:00:42]To the best of my knowledge,
[3:00:43]there was not.
[3:00:44]If there was and I knew it,
[3:00:46]I would be uncomfortable.
[3:00:47]That answered.
[3:00:48]All right.
[3:00:48]Did you ever speak with
[3:00:50]or otherwise engage with,
[3:00:52]well, I think you just answered,
[3:00:53]young girls on these flights.
[3:00:54]So I'll move on.
[3:00:56]Ron Burkle.
[3:00:57]Do you know him?
[3:00:58]I do.
[3:00:59]All right.
[3:01:00]Ron Burkle commented on the Epstein is creepy.
[3:01:03]I would like to introduce Majority Exhibit 21.
[3:01:09]Majority Exhibit 21, page 5.
[3:01:12]The paragraph at the top of the page,
[3:01:14]the last sentence.
[3:01:15]You would take a look at that.
[3:01:22]Did you say what page you did?
[3:01:23]Sure. It's page 5.
[3:01:25]Paragraph at the top, the last sentence.
[3:01:27]If you could give us a minute to read it,
[3:01:28]that'd be great.
[3:02:07]No, page 5.
[3:02:08]Top paragraph.
[3:02:12]This paragraph.
[3:02:13]And more specifically,
[3:02:18]the last sentence of the top paragraph.
[3:02:37]I didn't know about this.
[3:02:39]So the question would be this.
[3:02:41]I understand you didn't know anything about it,
[3:02:42]but let me ask the question.
[3:02:45]You have no memory of this occurring, correct?
[3:02:47]Excuse me.
[3:02:48]Are you talking about Ron Burkle
[3:02:49]saying to the President?
[3:02:50]Let me read the whole thing.
[3:02:51]Let me read the whole thing.
[3:02:52]He didn't actually say it.
[3:02:53]It doesn't say that.
[3:02:53]Sources close to Burkle
[3:02:55]says he was invited by Clinton,
[3:02:58]assumed the rod was vetted,
[3:02:59]and flew home on a commercial jet
[3:03:02]after finding Epstein to be creepy.
[3:03:04]It appears that he saw that
[3:03:05]and he flew home early.
[3:03:06]Would that be that his May?
[3:03:07]Do you have any memory of this occurring?
[3:03:10]I don't.
[3:03:11]Why do you think Mr. Burkle
[3:03:12]would think Epstein is creepy?
[3:03:14]Objection speculative.
[3:03:16]He can't know what Burkle is saying.
[3:03:16]I don't know.
[3:03:17]Some people thought I shouldn't fly with him.
[3:03:20]Did you witness anything unusual with Epstein
[3:03:22]that would lead you to believe
[3:03:23]that Epstein was creepy?
[3:03:25]No.
[3:03:26]I never saw him do anything
[3:03:28]that I was suspicious of.
[3:03:31]And you don't recall Mr. Burkle
[3:03:33]leaving the trip early
[3:03:34]to fly home commercially?
[3:03:35]I don't know.
[3:03:38]I'm surprised I don't know that.
[3:03:40]Sure.
[3:03:41]So who else in your circle?
[3:03:43]Because one of the concerns I have
[3:03:44]is how did someone
[3:03:46]who is convicted of trafficking humans,
[3:03:48]how did he infiltrate
[3:03:49]the highest level of government?
[3:03:51]If we could get to an idea
[3:03:52]or a lesson learned,
[3:03:53]we could prevent that
[3:03:54]from happening again.
[3:03:55]Who in your circle
[3:03:57]while you were president
[3:03:58]or after in the Clinton Foundation,
[3:04:02]who else do you think
[3:04:03]we should question here?
[3:04:04]Can I just clarify one thing?
[3:04:05]You said who had been convicted.
[3:04:06]He wasn't convicted at the time.
[3:04:08]Epstein?
[3:04:08]Yes.
[3:04:09]No, I'm talking afterwards.
[3:04:10]So people that were associated with him.
[3:04:12]After he was convicted.
[3:04:13]Because one of the questions would be
[3:04:14]is why do you think
[3:04:16]Epstein visited the White House so much?
[3:04:18]So he was convicted in 2008.
[3:04:23]He visited the White House in the 90s.
[3:04:24]So I'm just trying to make sure
[3:04:26]you're not speaking to
[3:04:28]before he was convicted.
[3:04:29]You're talking about after he was convicted?
[3:04:30]So let me go back.
[3:04:31]So the thing is
[3:04:32]he went to the White House many times
[3:04:34]and he is connected
[3:04:35]to world leaders all over the place.
[3:04:37]Many people have resigned
[3:04:38]as was all the Epstein files.
[3:04:40]So I'm just asking
[3:04:41]a neutral question
[3:04:42]and that based on your experience
[3:04:44]as a world leader,
[3:04:45]what could we do to prevent
[3:04:47]predators like this
[3:04:48]from infiltrating
[3:04:50]the highest levels of American government?
[3:04:52]Well, when someone knows about it,
[3:04:54]they should report it
[3:04:55]and there should be a system
[3:04:56]set up to act on it.
[3:04:59]Well, I agree with that.
[3:05:03]Is it true that in 2013
[3:05:04]Ms. Maxwell was a guest
[3:05:06]at the Clinton Global Initiative Conference?
[3:05:11]I don't know.
[3:05:12]When was the last year we had it?
[3:05:14]2013 is one of the years
[3:05:15]where they're asking whether or not
[3:05:16]she was there.
[3:05:17]I know.
[3:05:18]I'm trying to.
[3:05:20]So you can just...
[3:05:21]Off the top of my head, I don't know.
[3:05:23]Well, I understand that
[3:05:24]she also attended your daughter's wedding.
[3:05:28]She did.
[3:05:29]And so understand now
[3:05:31]the unspeakable evil
[3:05:33]that these people committed.
[3:05:35]Do you believe it was a mistake
[3:05:37]allowing them close to your family?
[3:05:40]Are you asking if he knew
[3:05:42]at the time
[3:05:42]when she was at the wedding?
[3:05:43]Looking back.
[3:05:44]I had no...
[3:05:45]Looking back, I had no idea
[3:05:49]if I had known what she was doing,
[3:05:52]I would have done the right thing.
[3:05:54]Understand.
[3:05:54]Well, I think that...
[3:05:55]But I also...
[3:05:57]Keep in mind,
[3:06:00]I felt bad for Ted Wake,
[3:06:03]who was a very close friend of mine.
[3:06:05]And I never had any doubt about him
[3:06:09]and still don't.
[3:06:10]Roger that.
[3:06:11]Well, I think you would agree
[3:06:12]that we all want justice for the victims.
[3:06:13]We all want transparency and accountability.
[3:06:16]We want to strengthen
[3:06:17]our anti-human trafficking laws.
[3:06:19]President Trump has secured the border
[3:06:21]and gone after the cartels
[3:06:23]and even passed legislation
[3:06:25]to help human trafficking victims.
[3:06:27]What other legislation
[3:06:28]could we do based on your experience
[3:06:31]that would help stop trafficking
[3:06:34]in America, if not the world?
[3:06:37]Well, first, you need to
[3:06:40]ask people who know more about
[3:06:43]how people get over it.
[3:06:48]I mean, there's already been
[3:06:51]a large number of dollars
[3:06:53]put into settlements.
[3:06:55]But I think there must be damages
[3:07:01]to people that will take
[3:07:02]a lifetime to heal.
[3:07:04]So I think there needs to be
[3:07:05]a lot of study on that.
[3:07:08]And then I think hotlines
[3:07:16]that where people make reports
[3:07:17]need to be taken seriously
[3:07:19]and you need to follow up on them.
[3:07:20]And I think that
[3:07:26]the more we talk about it,
[3:07:29]the less likely it is
[3:07:31]that another big network will form.
[3:07:34]Thank you for answering my questions.
[3:07:35]I think you're doing a good,
[3:07:37]just having us talk about it so far.
[3:07:39]Thank you.
[3:07:43]Next will be Mr. Grofman from Wisconsin.
[3:07:57]Can I get a time check?
[3:07:58]You have approximately 15 minutes remaining.
[3:08:00]What?
[3:08:01]Approximately 15 minutes remaining.
[3:08:03]Okay.
[3:08:21]Sign here.
[3:08:22]Yes, we can hear you.
[3:08:23]Was Jeffrey Epstein on?
[3:08:26]You apparently took 26 flights
[3:08:28]on planes connected to Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:08:30]Was he on every flight you were on?
[3:08:32]Was he on every flight I was on?
[3:08:35]Yeah.
[3:08:37]That's a good question.
[3:08:38]If you know.
[3:08:40]What?
[3:08:40]If you know their flight manifesto, do you know?
[3:08:43]There'll be a record of it,
[3:08:44]but I think he was or certainly almost.
[3:08:47]You think he was.
[3:08:48]Well, that's okay.
[3:08:50]Was Ghislaine Maxwell on every flight
[3:08:52]you were on as far as you remember?
[3:08:56]The same answer.
[3:08:56]I think she was,
[3:08:57]but there'll be a record of it.
[3:09:00]Okay.
[3:09:01]When you took these flights,
[3:09:02]you're saying a lot of them
[3:09:03]were on behalf of your foundation
[3:09:05]or your charitable work, correct?
[3:09:06]Yes.
[3:09:08]Who did you normally bring on these flights?
[3:09:10]You know, I assume employees of the foundation,
[3:09:13]whatever.
[3:09:14]I brought people who work with me,
[3:09:18]especially people who would have to follow up
[3:09:22]on the fundraising,
[3:09:23]or people who were involved in my AIDS work.
[3:09:27]I bought people who.
[3:09:33]It's like I never go anywhere alone.
[3:09:35]You never went anywhere alone, right?
[3:09:37]No.
[3:09:39]And I had the Secret Service with me,
[3:09:42]and then on occasion,
[3:09:47]I had people who had volunteered to help us
[3:09:53]and wanted to see what we were doing.
[3:09:54]For example, I think it was on one of these trips.
[3:09:59]I think that I had my first trip for the man
[3:10:05]who's now the governor of Illinois,
[3:10:07]J.B. Pritzker and his wife.
[3:10:08]They gave me, they helped me get started.
[3:10:11]It's all a matter of public record.
[3:10:12]Okay.
[3:10:13]As far as on your normal trips,
[3:10:15]could you rattle off say to the four or five people
[3:10:18]connected to your foundation
[3:10:20]who you remember were most frequently on these trips
[3:10:24]or were most important on the trips?
[3:10:27]Yes.
[3:10:27]Could you give us the names?
[3:10:29]Well, Doug Mann, Justin Cooper,
[3:10:32]Aaron Magaziner,
[3:10:35]and I can't remember who else.
[3:10:37]I'd be glad to look them up.
[3:10:38]We'll give you a couple seconds to think.
[3:10:39]I can't remember who worked for me 10 years ago,
[3:10:41]so I don't expect you.
[3:10:42]Did anybody else even think of it?
[3:10:43]It was 24 years ago.
[3:10:44]I'll be glad to try to find out who else worked.
[3:10:47]Okay.
[3:10:47]But when you were on the plane,
[3:10:49]first of all, what did the plane look like
[3:10:51]when you got on the plane?
[3:10:53]Could you describe what it looked like?
[3:10:55]It was, first it looked like a commercial airplane.
[3:10:59]You know, seats on both sides of the aisle.
[3:11:03]And typically our crew kind of filled it up
[3:11:08]for a few, however many people,
[3:11:11]depending on how many people we had,
[3:11:13]we had the staff and the friends of the foundation
[3:11:17]and people were doing the work,
[3:11:20]then we had the...
[3:11:25]So it's like a boardroom halfway back.
[3:11:27]Yeah, and then we had the Secret Service
[3:11:31]further back, and that was it.
[3:11:34]Okay.
[3:11:39]How would you spend your time on these flights
[3:11:41]in Europe, Asia, or sub-Saharan Africa?
[3:11:44]Those are quite trips.
[3:11:45]What would you do on these trips?
[3:11:48]We would spend a fair amount of time
[3:11:52]talking about what we were going to do at the next stop.
[3:11:55]You know, we worked a lot.
[3:11:58]Then we read a lot and we slept a lot
[3:12:04]and we always cut out some time for card games.
[3:12:07]I was going to ask you whether you do cards
[3:12:09]and you gave me a punch.
[3:12:10]What type of cards did you play?
[3:12:12]Oh Hell and Hearts.
[3:12:13]Yes.
[3:12:15]Hearts, I always play Hearts, that's good.
[3:12:18]You said, was the Secret Service with you
[3:12:21]every time you went on these trips?
[3:12:22]Every time.
[3:12:23]Every time, okay good.
[3:12:24]I have never signed off Secret Service fixed.
[3:12:28]Okay.
[3:12:30]Did the Secret Service,
[3:12:31]they screened all the other passengers
[3:12:33]and pilots, as far as you know?
[3:12:38]They what?
[3:12:39]Screen them.
[3:12:40]Yeah, they have everybody's name and background and all that.
[3:12:46]Okay, now I asked you about people
[3:12:48]who are connected to the foundation
[3:12:50]that you brought along.
[3:12:51]But I take it that they gave you an airplane
[3:12:54]and Jeffrey was on it,
[3:12:55]there were his staff too, correct?
[3:12:57]Yeah, he had some staff on it.
[3:12:59]Any of those people you remember, men, women?
[3:13:04]Well, I remember Glenn was there
[3:13:05]and there were always
[3:13:13]other people that staffed the airplane, right?
[3:13:14]Right.
[3:13:15]I think one of the reasons you're successful
[3:13:17]is you deal with the average guy, right?
[3:13:19]You like to talk to the average guy.
[3:13:21]Did you remember the names of any of the Epstein staffers
[3:13:25]that were serving you
[3:13:27]or that you engaged with the answer about?
[3:13:31]Well, the one we just been talking about.
[3:13:34]Shanta Davis.
[3:13:35]Yeah, Shanta, I remember her.
[3:13:37]Shanta Davis.
[3:13:38]Okay, anybody else you talked about?
[3:13:40]Where are you from?
[3:13:42]Well, I talked to a lot of them.
[3:13:43]One of them was from Hawaii
[3:13:45]and was a military wife.
[3:13:48]Okay.
[3:13:49]I remember, but I don't remember their names after 25 years.
[3:13:54]Hawaiian girl?
[3:13:55]Was she Asian?
[3:13:57]No.
[3:13:57]No.
[3:13:58]Okay, okay.
[3:14:06]Were there ever new people that you remember joining?
[3:14:10]This is kind of what?
[3:14:11]Spread out over what?
[3:14:12]Four or five years?
[3:14:14]Two or three years, I guess.
[3:14:16]Two years on the flight.
[3:14:20]Did you ever get to the Virgin Islands
[3:14:23]other than on these planes?
[3:14:24]Have you ever been in the U.S. Virgin Islands
[3:14:26]in your life?
[3:14:27]Oh, yes.
[3:14:28]I worked, my foundation did a lot of work
[3:14:32]in the Virgin Islands.
[3:14:34]And you also vacationed there as president?
[3:14:37]Well, yeah, when I was president,
[3:14:38]Hillary and I vacationed there.
[3:14:40]And we liked it very much.
[3:14:43]But when I had the hurricane in 2017,
[3:14:51]we went to the islands and tried to help.
[3:14:54]My foundation did.
[3:14:57]And we did a lot of work there.
[3:14:59]Okay.
[3:14:59]We have another question.
[3:15:01]When you read about this,
[3:15:02]and obviously these files receive a lot of public attention,
[3:15:06]recently a columnist pointed out
[3:15:08]that one of the reasons this human trafficking
[3:15:10]was allowed to exist is there were lawyers,
[3:15:13]sometimes high-priced lawyers,
[3:15:15]who were able to bring,
[3:15:18]I guess particularly from Eastern Europe,
[3:15:20]Eastern European girls through here,
[3:15:22]negotiate the immigration laws and such.
[3:15:26]And particularly some very high-priced,
[3:15:28]famous lawyers were hired and apparently,
[3:15:31]I know they couldn't find anything better to do
[3:15:33]when they left Washington,
[3:15:36]were engaged in helping,
[3:15:41]I guess, girls that,
[3:15:43]some people that became prostitutes,
[3:15:45]get here from Eastern Europe.
[3:15:46]Would you comment on lawyers who make money
[3:15:53]bringing girls from Eastern Europe
[3:15:57]or other places around the world into prostitution?
[3:16:01]Sorry, just to clarify,
[3:16:03]you just want him to comment on that?
[3:16:04]Yeah, I want you to comment.
[3:16:05]What do you think of these people?
[3:16:07]You're asking me this question.
[3:16:08]I don't like it.
[3:16:09]What?
[3:16:09]I don't like it, but I don't know much about it.
[3:16:12]Would you think that,
[3:16:13]wouldn't you?
[3:16:13]Oh, I'm sorry.
[3:16:15]I'm getting the hook.
[3:16:16]You know how it is.
[3:16:20]Saved by the bell.
[3:16:21]Well, why not finish that question?
[3:16:23]Do you think if lawyers help,
[3:16:27]legally or illegally,
[3:16:29]people come into this country
[3:16:30]for the purpose of prostitution,
[3:16:32]that they should be dispired?
[3:16:36]Not unless it's illegal to do it.
[3:16:39]If you pass the law,
[3:16:40]which said it was illegal
[3:16:42]to provide representation,
[3:16:44]notwithstanding the constitutional right
[3:16:47]to get one.
[3:16:47]You think they're sleazy lawyers,
[3:16:48]if they make you say that?
[3:16:51]Sleazy lawyers?
[3:16:52]Say they're sleazy.
[3:16:53]For the record,
[3:16:54]we think lawyers are fantastic.
[3:16:56]Thank you.
[3:16:57]Thank you, Mr. Kressel.
[3:17:00]Lastly is Representative Langworthy from Buffalo.
[3:17:05]That's right.
[3:17:05]We say Buffalo, not New York.
[3:17:07]Oh, I love Buffalo.
[3:17:10]You were there the day after
[3:17:11]you were acquitted.
[3:17:12]I have a number.
[3:17:13]Yes, and 20,000 people feel them.
[3:17:16]Jim, never forget it.
[3:17:18]Big news.
[3:17:20]Thank you very much, President.
[3:17:20]Never forget it.
[3:17:23]You are widely regarded
[3:17:24]across party lines
[3:17:26]as one of the most
[3:17:27]politically perceptive leaders
[3:17:30]of modern time.
[3:17:31]Yeah, your political instincts
[3:17:33]are very well documented
[3:17:35]and your successes
[3:17:37]of your political career
[3:17:39]are well documented.
[3:17:41]How would you describe
[3:17:43]the substance of your conversations
[3:17:45]with Jeffrey Epstein
[3:17:46]during the many hours
[3:17:47]that you spent together
[3:17:49]on the aircraft?
[3:17:53]Well, at first,
[3:17:56]he really seemed to be
[3:17:58]like a vacuum cleaner,
[3:18:00]like he really wanted information.
[3:18:03]And there was no...
[3:18:05]To go back to the business
[3:18:08]with what do you call it?
[3:18:10]The passport, the false link.
[3:18:13]There was nothing
[3:18:17]overtly manipulative about it.
[3:18:19]He just wanted to know
[3:18:23]what did I think
[3:18:24]of derivatives trading?
[3:18:27]Did I think that
[3:18:29]the stock market
[3:18:30]was properly regulated
[3:18:31]or did it need more?
[3:18:33]What...
[3:18:37]How did we have
[3:18:38]the most broadly shared
[3:18:40]prosperity in 50 years?
[3:18:41]Was it just an accident?
[3:18:42]Was it just technology?
[3:18:43]Or do we have specific policies?
[3:18:46]He wanted to know stuff like that.
[3:18:48]And it was great
[3:18:49]for the first
[3:18:52]two, three, four, five conversations.
[3:18:56]But I could tell that
[3:18:58]it was like...
[3:19:01]I mean, you guys are in politics.
[3:19:03]Don't you ever feel like sometimes
[3:19:05]somebody's talking to you
[3:19:06]and then they're just checking the box
[3:19:07]and they got to go do something else
[3:19:09]and be somebody else?
[3:19:10]I think that's the way I felt.
[3:19:13]Interesting.
[3:19:13]The international travel
[3:19:15]you took with Mr. Epstein,
[3:19:17]it represented a significant investment
[3:19:19]of time and money on his behalf.
[3:19:21]And I did miss the first portion of this.
[3:19:23]So if any of this is repetitive,
[3:19:26]I apologize.
[3:19:29]Your arrangement was that
[3:19:31]you would spend an hour
[3:19:33]of conversation with him
[3:19:35]on topics of his choosing.
[3:19:37]He testified just so that you know
[3:19:39]on economics and politics.
[3:19:40]On economics and politics.
[3:19:42]Thank you.
[3:19:42]Okay.
[3:19:44]And that was the arrangement
[3:19:46]and the rest was in kind donation,
[3:19:48]you know, the flights.
[3:19:49]All the long haul flights, yeah.
[3:19:51]If we were gone four hours or more,
[3:19:53]I'd give them an hour.
[3:19:55]Okay.
[3:19:55]Did you ever ask him directly
[3:19:57]why he was willing to finance
[3:19:58]these trips and provide you
[3:19:59]with access to the plane?
[3:20:00]I did.
[3:20:01]So much?
[3:20:02]And what was his reaction to that question?
[3:20:06]He said,
[3:20:08]I think you did a good job as president
[3:20:10]and you managed to get reelected
[3:20:12]and you're the first Democrat
[3:20:13]in 60 years that got reelected.
[3:20:15]I want to know what happened
[3:20:17]and I want to understand it.
[3:20:19]And that was it.
[3:20:21]I mean, you never was,
[3:20:23]you know, it was never like
[3:20:24]he was trying to suck up to me
[3:20:25]or anything.
[3:20:26]He just was, it was very straightforward
[3:20:29]and but after a while,
[3:20:34]it was obvious that he had done
[3:20:35]what he intended to do
[3:20:37]and he was kind of going
[3:20:39]through the motions
[3:20:39]and he didn't really care about
[3:20:41]what I really cared about this AIDS thing.
[3:20:43]I thought we had a chance
[3:20:45]to build something
[3:20:47]that would revolutionize
[3:20:48]the treatment of all mass illnesses.
[3:20:52]Same thing with tuberculosis
[3:20:54]and malaria and sure enough we did.
[3:20:56]But I thought we were on the verge
[3:20:58]of something big
[3:21:00]and he didn't much care about it
[3:21:03]and I have a bunch of people that did.
[3:21:05]So we went in different ways.
[3:21:08]And as you pointed out,
[3:21:10]we're all in the political process
[3:21:12]certainly not playing at the levels
[3:21:15]that you have in your career
[3:21:17]but do you believe that this was
[3:21:20]in essence Epstein being a political junkie
[3:21:23]and looking for that association?
[3:21:25]Yes and I didn't know what else.
[3:21:31]All I knew was that after we started,
[3:21:36]when I got this thing going
[3:21:37]and people could see it
[3:21:39]like a chugging engine,
[3:21:41]then we had more and more people
[3:21:43]interested in helping
[3:21:46]and I wanted to have people there
[3:21:47]that I knew were genuinely caring.
[3:21:53]I know it sounds funny
[3:21:54]but it matters
[3:21:54]because when you start something like this,
[3:21:57]you're going to have rough time spots,
[3:21:58]things are not going to go right,
[3:22:00]you're going to have to solve new problems.
[3:22:02]Far better to have people
[3:22:03]who are passionate about this.
[3:22:05]So on these overseas visits,
[3:22:07]did Mr. Epstein accompany you
[3:22:09]to any of the meetings
[3:22:10]or the private dinners
[3:22:11]or the official engagements?
[3:22:14]If he did,
[3:22:14]what capacity was he introduced?
[3:22:17]He went to some of the meetings
[3:22:19]and some of the dinners
[3:22:20]but the big public dinner
[3:22:22]we did in South Africa he did for example.
[3:22:26]But some he didn't
[3:22:29]when it wasn't appropriate
[3:22:31]when I had to talk to somebody
[3:22:33]about whether I thought
[3:22:36]they were following a proper legal path
[3:22:41]and trying to let us sell generic drugs
[3:22:45]and how we're going to get them.
[3:22:46]There were a lot of complicated things.
[3:22:49]Can I get a time, Jim?
[3:22:51]We have like a minute left.
[3:22:53]Did he ever seek introductions
[3:22:55]to foreign dignitaries or leaders from you?
[3:22:58]Not that I remember.
[3:22:59]Did he ever ask you to make phone calls
[3:23:01]on his behalf?
[3:23:02]No, he never did.
[3:23:03]I remember that he didn't.
[3:23:04]I mean, I would remember.
[3:23:05]You said he was not a friend
[3:23:07]but with that amount of travel
[3:23:09]and proximity,
[3:23:10]why wasn't he a friend
[3:23:11]and he was just an acquaintance?
[3:23:12]Well, no,
[3:23:14]it wasn't just an acquaintance either.
[3:23:15]I felt friendly toward him
[3:23:17]but he was, as I said in my book, odd.
[3:23:21]There was always something
[3:23:22]a little holding back
[3:23:23]and I could tell.
[3:23:29]It was pretty strange the way it happened.
[3:23:31]You know, Larry Summers,
[3:23:32]the president of Harvard
[3:23:33]calls you out of the blue
[3:23:35]says this guy wants to do it.
[3:23:36]You do it.
[3:23:39]And then I just,
[3:23:43]I like to spend as much time as I can
[3:23:47]with people I know that I can count on.
[3:23:50]And I didn't have,
[3:23:52]honestly, I never saw anything
[3:23:55]that I knew was illegal
[3:23:57]but I just felt
[3:23:59]I should move on and we did.
[3:24:03]Did you ever have any arguments
[3:24:05]or disagreements with Mr. Epstein
[3:24:07]or Miss Maxwell
[3:24:08]in the course of your travels?
[3:24:10]Not to my knowledge.
[3:24:11]And is there anything
[3:24:15]that you saw that he was looking
[3:24:16]to monetize the relationship
[3:24:18]that he had with you?
[3:24:19]No.
[3:24:20]Okay.
[3:24:21]Can I check the time?
[3:24:23]I was waiting a lot of seconds.
[3:24:25]My lawyers are going to kill me on this
[3:24:27]but I have to say,
[3:24:28]I want to be honest.
[3:24:29]I'm not trying to be
[3:24:31]you know, goody two shoes here.
[3:24:33]I did feel closer to the landmine field
[3:24:37]because of Ted Wake.
[3:24:41]So I didn't,
[3:24:42]I wasn't against the whole deal
[3:24:45]until I knew what they were doing.
[3:24:48]Okay.
[3:24:48]But then it was too late
[3:24:49]for me to do anything about it.
[3:24:51]I think your response is
[3:24:52]was he trying to ever monetize
[3:24:54]the relation to your new watch?
[3:24:56]Best of my knowledge,
[3:24:57]he never did.
[3:24:58]Thank you for the opportunity, Mr. President.
[3:25:00]Thank you.
[3:25:00]We will go off the record.
[3:25:08]We can go back on the record.
[3:25:11]Mr. President,
[3:25:16]I just have a few more questions.
[3:25:18]I'll try to be as efficient as possible
[3:25:21]as we move through them.
[3:25:24]One, it is moving back in time
[3:25:26]just a little bit.
[3:25:27]In 1996, Maria Farmer,
[3:25:31]who was a confirmed Epstein victim,
[3:25:33]submitted information to the FBI
[3:25:36]that Jeffrey Epstein
[3:25:37]was sexually abusing minors.
[3:25:40]During your presidency,
[3:25:42]were you ever made aware
[3:25:43]of the information
[3:25:44]that Maria Farmer provided
[3:25:46]to the FBI in 1996?
[3:25:49]No, Ted, no.
[3:25:56]Thank you.
[3:25:58]I'm going to move back ahead
[3:26:00]to the year 2003.
[3:26:02]There's just one international trip
[3:26:05]that I don't think
[3:26:06]we've specifically discussed yet.
[3:26:08]And that was in November of 2003,
[3:26:12]a trip to, I think,
[3:26:13]Russia and China
[3:26:15]on Mr. Epstein's plane.
[3:26:16]Is that the last one I took?
[3:26:18]Great.
[3:26:19]So I'm going to give you,
[3:26:21]I think for us,
[3:26:22]the last piece of paper for the day,
[3:26:24]which is the flight log for that trip.
[3:26:26]And we'll mark that
[3:26:27]as Minority Exhibit L.
[3:26:30]And I'll give you
[3:26:30]a moment to receive that.
[3:26:34]Wow.
[3:26:34]Thank you very much.
[3:26:36]I've forgotten.
[3:26:36]I went to Russia, too.
[3:26:39]You went through Russia.
[3:26:40]You went through Russia.
[3:26:41]You were coming from nowhere.
[3:26:43]Yeah.
[3:26:45]And for your counsel,
[3:26:46]that's a total of five trips
[3:26:48]distributed between the fourth,
[3:26:51]fifth, sixth, and ninth
[3:26:54]here on this log.
[3:26:57]Yeah, this was another one
[3:26:58]of our eight trips
[3:26:59]because I was on it.
[3:27:03]Yeah.
[3:27:04]So if you could just describe
[3:27:06]what you recall about
[3:27:08]the circumstances of this trip.
[3:27:20]Can you refresh my memory
[3:27:22]about what stops were actually taken?
[3:27:25]Yeah, the countries in question
[3:27:28]are Russia and China.
[3:27:31]I think the final stop was Beijing.
[3:27:35]I do not, off the top of my head,
[3:27:37]recall what each of these
[3:27:38]airport codes are.
[3:27:41]It was Brussels to Oslo
[3:27:44]to Tormachevo, Russia,
[3:27:46]to Hong Kong, Chengdu, Beijing.
[3:27:49]Well, thank you.
[3:27:49]I appreciate that.
[3:27:50]Okay.
[3:27:52]Do it again.
[3:27:55]Brussels to Oslo to the middle of Russia,
[3:27:58]Tormachevo to Hong Kong,
[3:28:00]to Chengdu, to Beijing.
[3:28:02]Got it.
[3:28:07]We stopped in Europe.
[3:28:10]And as I remember,
[3:28:14]I remember that we did something.
[3:28:23]Brussels is the political,
[3:28:25]the parliamentary capital of Europe.
[3:28:27]I think we did something with the EU.
[3:28:30]And then Oslo was important
[3:28:35]because the Norwegians
[3:28:45]had funded a project
[3:28:47]that we did for them,
[3:28:49]for the Clinton Foundation for Russia.
[3:28:55]They asked us to try to develop
[3:29:02]a plan for Leningrad.
[3:29:10]We did.
[3:29:11]What kind of plan, Mr. President?
[3:29:13]An AIDS plan because Leningrad
[3:29:16]had a very high AIDS rate
[3:29:20]because it was near the ocean
[3:29:24]and people were coming in and out.
[3:29:27]And I think that's what happened then.
[3:29:32]And then we went to China
[3:29:36]and I'd been doing a lot of work on China
[3:29:43]and it was very interesting
[3:29:48]because we, the Chinese,
[3:29:54]were eager to get into this
[3:29:57]and yet scared.
[3:29:58]It was very interesting.
[3:30:01]We could have been,
[3:30:03]you're in Russia and China,
[3:30:04]you could have been in rural America
[3:30:08]on AIDS at the time.
[3:30:10]They were very reluctant to discuss this
[3:30:13]and all hung up about it.
[3:30:19]The Chinese, with whom I had good relations
[3:30:22]at the time,
[3:30:24]the national government asked me,
[3:30:27]they said they like you out in the country here.
[3:30:31]I'd been there in 1998 and had a big trip.
[3:30:34]And he said,
[3:30:34]we want you to go out there
[3:30:39]and be photographed on state television
[3:30:42]and play with children
[3:30:46]and talking to their families about AIDS.
[3:30:49]So that's what this whole trip was about.
[3:30:50]I saw I was doing that.
[3:30:53]And it was, I think,
[3:30:58]I'm almost sure that's it
[3:30:59]because then we stopped in Hong Kong
[3:31:01]on the way out, right?
[3:31:02]Yeah, Hong Kong invasion.
[3:31:04]Yeah.
[3:31:05]Thank you very much.
[3:31:06]I appreciate that context.
[3:31:08]Is it correct that while on that trip
[3:31:10]you did not witness or become aware
[3:31:12]of sexual abuse of any kind?
[3:31:14]No, we were all busy as crazy.
[3:31:16]I never saw anything like that.
[3:31:18]Thank you.
[3:31:20]We have a few events
[3:31:21]for which we don't have exact dates.
[3:31:24]I'll ask about them one at a time.
[3:31:26]CNN has reported that in July of 2003,
[3:31:31]Ms. Maxwell co-hosted a fundraiser
[3:31:33]for your presidential library
[3:31:36]and Mr. Epstein may have attended.
[3:31:38]We don't know whether or not
[3:31:40]you attended that event.
[3:31:41]Do you have any recollection
[3:31:43]of attending that event?
[3:31:45]I don't.
[3:31:46]I wouldn't be surprised.
[3:31:48]I don't remember anything about it.
[3:31:50]Thank you.
[3:31:51]An investigative journalist named Vicki Ward
[3:31:54]has claimed that Ms. Maxwell
[3:31:56]accompanied you on a trip to India
[3:31:58]sometime in 2003,
[3:32:01]including to the Taj Mahal
[3:32:03]and that you traveled for that trip
[3:32:04]on a private jet owned by
[3:32:07]billionaire Ron Burkle.
[3:32:09]Do you have any recollection
[3:32:10]of the trip I just described?
[3:32:21]Fourth right here.
[3:32:23]I was the first thing I did
[3:32:27]in the way of public service
[3:32:30]after I left office
[3:32:34]was to try to help India
[3:32:39]deal with the aftermath
[3:32:40]of the Gujarat earthquake
[3:32:42]which happened literally four days
[3:32:45]after I gave up the White House.
[3:32:48]I called the Prime Minister of India
[3:32:54]who was a friend of mine
[3:32:55]and he said I need help.
[3:32:58]I've got to build schools
[3:33:00]and hospitals and I can't do anything
[3:33:04]in the small towns
[3:33:05]and the middle-sized towns
[3:33:06]and the rural areas.
[3:33:08]I only have the money to do
[3:33:09]something in the big cities.
[3:33:15]I'm not saying I did or didn't do this.
[3:33:17]I have no memory
[3:33:19]but I don't want to mislead anybody.
[3:33:22]We were doing tons of stuff
[3:33:25]and we needed to finance it
[3:33:28]so I can't say that I didn't do it.
[3:33:31]Thank you.
[3:33:32]In your 2024 memoir,
[3:33:34]you said that by the time
[3:33:35]Epstein was arrested in 2005
[3:33:38]that you had stopped contact with him.
[3:33:41]When do you recall being the last time
[3:33:43]that you had any kind of communication
[3:33:45]with Mr. Epstein?
[3:33:46]The last time I remember
[3:33:47]was with him was sometime in 2003.
[3:33:53]Attorney Brad Edwards,
[3:33:55]that's an attorney who's represented
[3:33:57]many of Mr. Epstein's survivors.
[3:33:58]Excuse me, Counsel.
[3:33:59]I believe there was a misstatement there.
[3:34:03]The book says who in 2008
[3:34:05]had been convicted in jail in Florida,
[3:34:07]not 2005.
[3:34:08]Okay, thank you.
[3:34:09]I appreciate that.
[3:34:13]Attorney Brad Edwards has represented
[3:34:15]many of Mr. Epstein's survivors.
[3:34:18]He claimed in a 2011 filing
[3:34:21]that he believed the Justice Department
[3:34:23]possessed some kind of correspondence
[3:34:25]from you from 2007 or 2008
[3:34:29]on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:34:32]At any of the various points
[3:34:34]when Mr. Epstein was under investigation,
[3:34:36]did you or any of your representatives
[3:34:38]ever submit any correspondence
[3:34:40]to the Department of Justice on his behalf?
[3:34:43]I have no memory of that.
[3:34:47]To your recollection or knowledge,
[3:34:48]did you or your representatives
[3:34:50]ever have any other communication
[3:34:52]with the Department of Justice
[3:34:54]regarding Jeffrey Epstein?
[3:34:56]Not that I remember, no.
[3:35:00]CNN has reported that in 2007,
[3:35:03]Ms. Maxwell co-hosted a fundraiser
[3:35:05]for Secretary Clinton's presidential campaign
[3:35:08]in New York City.
[3:35:09]We believe that Christina Aguilera
[3:35:11]may have performed at that event.
[3:35:13]Do you have any knowledge or recollection
[3:35:16]of attending that event?
[3:35:24]There was an email released
[3:35:26]as part of the DOJ files recently
[3:35:28]that suggested you may have attended
[3:35:31]a party at Ghislaine Maxwell's home
[3:35:34]in October of 2009
[3:35:37]and that publicist Heggy Siegel
[3:35:40]as well as Jeff Bezos may have attended.
[3:35:43]My only question to you
[3:35:44]is whether you have any recollection
[3:35:46]of attending a party that I just described.
[3:35:49]Is this her home in New York City?
[3:35:51]It would be at Ms. Maxwell's home
[3:35:55]in New York City.
[3:35:56]I have no memory of that at all.
[3:35:59]Thank you.
[3:36:03]It's been widely reported
[3:36:04]that in July of 2010,
[3:36:06]Ms. Maxwell attended your daughter
[3:36:08]Chelsea's wedding in Rhineback, New York
[3:36:10]and that she accompanied billionaire Ted Waite
[3:36:13]who was, at least at the time,
[3:36:14]a family friend of yours
[3:36:16]and you've described a little bit today.
[3:36:18]You, of course, were at that wedding as well.
[3:36:21]Do you have any specific recollection
[3:36:23]of interacting with Ms. Maxwell
[3:36:26]at that wedding?
[3:36:32]I was in emotional wreck.
[3:36:34]I was just trying not to fall off
[3:36:35]the little, what do you call, the pallets.
[3:36:42]No, the wooden that we walked on the grass with.
[3:36:48]I knew she was there and she and Ted were there.
[3:36:53]What was your understanding
[3:36:55]of her relationship with Mr. Waite at the time?
[3:37:00]Well, I thought they were together
[3:37:01]and I think Chelsea and Mark did too.
[3:37:12]It's also been reported that in 2011,
[3:37:15]your advisor Doug Band instructed an aide
[3:37:18]to remove Ms. Maxwell
[3:37:20]from all attendance-related lists
[3:37:22]for Clinton-related events.
[3:37:24]This was reportedly in the wake
[3:37:26]of Virginia Roberts-Dufray
[3:37:28]and allegations that she made at the time
[3:37:30]against many people, including Ms. Maxwell.
[3:37:32]Do you have any memory or knowledge
[3:37:34]of Mr. Band's instructions
[3:37:36]that I just described?
[3:37:37]I don't.
[3:37:42]Thank you.
[3:37:43]That takes us through most
[3:37:45]of the known timeline
[3:37:46]of your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:37:48]There's just one more topic
[3:37:49]I would like to cover.
[3:37:51]That is the Clinton Global Initiative.
[3:37:55]In 2007, Mr. Epstein's lawyers
[3:37:57]claimed that he was part
[3:37:59]of the original group
[3:38:00]that conceived the Clinton Global Initiative.
[3:38:03]Would you agree with that characterization?
[3:38:05]No.
[3:38:06]Can you elaborate a little bit
[3:38:08]on why you would not agree with that?
[3:38:10]I wouldn't agree with that
[3:38:11]because the first time
[3:38:17]I ever discussed
[3:38:18]what became the Clinton Global Initiative
[3:38:21]was with Doug Band
[3:38:23]and the rest of our small group
[3:38:25]on the way back from Davos.
[3:38:32]Doug said he wanted to
[3:38:35]we should have a meeting like this
[3:38:37]in New York at the opening of the UN.
[3:38:41]We can make a lot of money.
[3:38:44]Because you don't have to go to Davos.
[3:38:47]You can meet all these people over here.
[3:38:51]And I said I want to do it
[3:38:54]for an entirely different reason.
[3:38:56]It's fine if we make money
[3:38:57]but the most important thing
[3:38:59]is that we give serious people
[3:39:00]a chance to go to meetings
[3:39:03]and actually make commitments
[3:39:05]to make positive change.
[3:39:07]I'm tired of going to meetings
[3:39:08]where everybody just bloviates
[3:39:10]and doesn't ever do a damn thing.
[3:39:12]So if we can figure out how to do that,
[3:39:16]I'm interested.
[3:39:18]And then we got a team
[3:39:27]to operationalize it.
[3:39:28]It was Doug Band, Mary Morrison
[3:39:31]who had worked for me
[3:39:32]in the inner office of the White House.
[3:39:36]And a man named Ed Hughes
[3:39:37]who was a wonderful young guy
[3:39:38]who stayed with us the whole 12 years.
[3:39:40]And they were working on how to stand up
[3:39:47]and do the mechanics of this.
[3:39:51]And my job was to try to get
[3:39:57]some people who would come
[3:39:58]that people would want to hear and see
[3:40:02]and try to make it exciting
[3:40:05]and make people actually want
[3:40:09]to make commitments.
[3:40:10]And so I think it was at that point
[3:40:15]that Galean may have gotten involved.
[3:40:16]I don't know.
[3:40:19]You can ask him about it
[3:40:20]but I'm just telling you how it began.
[3:40:21]It began with Doug said,
[3:40:24]let's do this and make money
[3:40:26]and me saying, let's do this
[3:40:27]and make commitments.
[3:40:29]I think the question, Mr. President,
[3:40:30]which you've answered was,
[3:40:31]was Jeffrey Epstein involved in the...
[3:40:34]At the time, no, not at all.
[3:40:37]Thank you.
[3:40:38]Thank you.
[3:40:39]But I do not know what happened after.
[3:40:42]It has been publicly reported that in 2006,
[3:40:45]Mr. Epstein made a $25,000 donation
[3:40:48]to the Clinton Foundation.
[3:40:50]Do you have any specific knowledge
[3:40:52]or recollection of that donation?
[3:40:54]I saw it in them.
[3:40:55]I saw that it was reported.
[3:40:57]I didn't, I don't know.
[3:40:58]Thank you.
[3:40:59]With respect to Ms. Maxwell
[3:41:01]and you just touched on it briefly,
[3:41:03]she told DOJ last July
[3:41:05]that she was, quote,
[3:41:06]very central to the startup
[3:41:08]of the Clinton Global Initiative.
[3:41:10]Would you agree with that characterization?
[3:41:16]I would agree that she worked hard.
[3:41:18]I now know I didn't at the time
[3:41:21]because I was working on the other...
[3:41:23]As I explained,
[3:41:23]I was working on a whole other part of this.
[3:41:26]If I could ask you to limit
[3:41:28]your answer to your knowledge at the time.
[3:41:30]At the time, I did not know it.
[3:41:32]Thank you.
[3:41:35]The New York Times recently reported
[3:41:37]that in 2004, Ms. Maxwell arranged
[3:41:40]a $1 million payment to an events company
[3:41:43]called Publicis Group
[3:41:45]and that the payment may have had some connection
[3:41:48]with the first Clinton Global Initiative
[3:41:50]conference in 2005.
[3:41:52]The reporting suggests that Mr. Epstein
[3:41:54]may have been involved with the payment
[3:41:56]or somehow aware of the payment.
[3:41:58]Do you have any specific memory
[3:42:00]or knowledge or recollection
[3:42:02]of the $1 million payment I just described?
[3:42:11]It's also been reported
[3:42:12]that in September of 2013
[3:42:14]at a Clinton Global Initiative conference,
[3:42:17]Ms. Maxwell was recognized
[3:42:20]as a commitment-to-action partner
[3:42:22]for her work on behalf of the Terra Mar project,
[3:42:25]which was an ocean conservation nonprofit
[3:42:28]that she founded in 2012.
[3:42:31]Do you have any memory or knowledge
[3:42:33]of that conference?
[3:42:34]I do.
[3:42:35]Great. Could you describe a little bit
[3:42:36]what you recall?
[3:42:38]Yeah, because this shows you have
[3:42:41]the CGI work, not for Galain, for everybody.
[3:42:47]She, at first, she was still with Ted Waite
[3:42:51]and he was still heavily involved in ocean work,
[3:42:55]so that was sort of an incentive,
[3:42:58]but she had organized this group
[3:43:02]and its objective was to, in effect,
[3:43:05]take two massive islands
[3:43:10]made of metal and junk out of the Atlantic
[3:43:14]and they were floating around.
[3:43:15]One of them had gotten to the Caribbean.
[3:43:17]They were floating around in all this metal,
[3:43:20]so that was what she was trying to do.
[3:43:22]That was a good idea
[3:43:23]and she was recognized for that.
[3:43:26]The fact that she was recognized
[3:43:27]was not particularly remarkable.
[3:43:29]Everybody who makes a commitment
[3:43:33]goes through a photo line
[3:43:34]and gets recognized.
[3:43:37]Did you have any personal role
[3:43:39]in Ms. Maxwell's recognition
[3:43:41]at that event?
[3:43:43]No, I might have been in her room
[3:43:45]by the time she got it,
[3:43:46]but it wasn't.
[3:43:47]No, they put the recognition in that room.
[3:43:50]I remember this specifically
[3:43:52]because it was where all the ocean freaks were,
[3:43:57]all the people that cared about this
[3:43:58]that wanted to be.
[3:44:01]So that's why they wanted those things announced.
[3:44:03]By ocean freaks,
[3:44:03]you mean people who are passionate
[3:44:05]about the ocean.
[3:44:08]I mean that.
[3:44:10]People who were passionate about doing this
[3:44:12]it was great.
[3:44:15]So I didn't think a thing about it.
[3:44:17]Do you have any additional knowledge
[3:44:19]or recollection related to Ms. Maxwell's
[3:44:21]role at that event?
[3:44:23]No.
[3:44:26]Reportedly in February of 2014
[3:44:30]you had dinner with Ms. Maxwell
[3:44:31]and others in Los Angeles
[3:44:33]at a vegan restaurant
[3:44:34]called Crossroads Kitchen.
[3:44:36]That dinner may have been organized
[3:44:38]by your then deputy chief of staff,
[3:44:40]John Davidson, perhaps around 20 guests.
[3:44:43]Do you have any recollection
[3:44:44]of the dinner I just described?
[3:44:46]I had a lot of dinners like that
[3:44:51]in Los Angeles.
[3:44:52]So I don't remember that specific one,
[3:44:56]but whenever I went to Los Angeles
[3:44:59]I tended to have a dinner
[3:45:00]someplace in public
[3:45:02]with a lot of my friends
[3:45:04]just to keep in touch with them,
[3:45:05]keep going.
[3:45:09]As far as you can recall,
[3:45:11]when was the last time you had
[3:45:12]any form of communication
[3:45:14]with Ms. Maxwell?
[3:45:18]I think it must be a decade ago
[3:45:20]or maybe even longer.
[3:45:21]I don't know, but it was a long time.
[3:45:23]Thank you.
[3:45:29]Mr. President, it's a pleasure to be here
[3:45:33]and quickly, on a lighter note,
[3:45:37]point of personal privilege.
[3:45:39]My birthday is November 5, 1974,
[3:45:41]which shouldn't mean anything to you,
[3:45:43]but what it means is that
[3:45:45]I turned 18 two days after the election
[3:45:49]and I couldn't vote
[3:45:50]and I'm still upset about that.
[3:45:51]So on behalf of my mom,
[3:45:54]I apologize, she was a little slow.
[3:45:59]President Clinton, as counsel noted
[3:46:02]at the beginning of this deposition,
[3:46:04]Donald Trump posted on social media
[3:46:09]that he wanted Attorney General
[3:46:11]Pam Bondi to investigate you
[3:46:13]and other prominent Democrats
[3:46:15]in order to distract from his own
[3:46:17]close ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:46:19]That post was previously marked
[3:46:22]as Minority Exhibit B,
[3:46:24]which you already have.
[3:46:26]President Trump's post refers
[3:46:27]to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes
[3:46:29]against young girls and women
[3:46:31]as the Epstein hoax.
[3:46:33]His post also completely ignores
[3:46:35]several other high-profile individuals,
[3:46:38]including Republicans and allies
[3:46:40]of President Trump,
[3:46:41]who were known to have had
[3:46:43]relationships with Epstein.
[3:46:45]In fact, the Epstein files
[3:46:47]contain numerous officials
[3:46:49]in the current and previous
[3:46:50]Trump administrations
[3:46:52]who have connections to Jeffrey Epstein,
[3:46:55]including Howard Ludnick,
[3:46:56]R.F.K. Jr., Steve Bannon,
[3:46:58]Tom Barrett, Kevin Warsh,
[3:47:00]and Mehmet Oz, to name a few.
[3:47:03]President Clinton, to your knowledge,
[3:47:04]has the Trump administration
[3:47:06]done anything at all
[3:47:07]to investigate these other individuals
[3:47:10]with ties to Epstein?
[3:47:11]Well, I wouldn't be in a position
[3:47:12]to know that's the truth.
[3:47:18]As I said earlier,
[3:47:23]the only conversation I have
[3:47:24]with President Trump about this
[3:47:26]was in the early 2000s.
[3:47:30]And I have no information
[3:47:33]that he did anything wrong.
[3:47:36]I just want it all out there.
[3:47:37]I want everybody to get it all out there
[3:47:39]and let everybody see where we are.
[3:47:42]And have you had any conversations
[3:47:44]with him since the early 2000s
[3:47:46]about this subject matter?
[3:47:48]No.
[3:47:50]And then my last question is,
[3:47:52]Howard Ludnick recently went so far
[3:47:54]as to lie about his close
[3:47:57]connections with Jeffrey Epstein
[3:47:59]that the truth came out
[3:48:00]with the release of the files.
[3:48:01]President Clinton, is Howard Ludnick
[3:48:03]still employed as Secretary of Commerce
[3:48:05]in the Trump administration,
[3:48:06]to your knowledge?
[3:48:07]I think he is.
[3:48:09]And in your opinion,
[3:48:10]why has Donald Trump ignored
[3:48:12]these other prominent figures
[3:48:13]who've had close ties with Epstein?
[3:48:16]He's asking your opinion, Mr. President.
[3:48:21]Ludnick runs a big company
[3:48:25]and has made a lot of money
[3:48:27]and has supported him strongly.
[3:48:31]I don't think he believes
[3:48:32]that he's done anything bad enough to...
[3:48:36]I think he thinks he took his family
[3:48:38]to the island
[3:48:39]and he couldn't have done anything wrong.
[3:48:43]That's what I think he thinks.
[3:48:44]But I'm speculating.
[3:48:46]I'm doing what I have no business doing.
[3:48:49]Because I really don't know.
[3:48:52]Thank you, Mr. President.
[3:48:53]Thank you.
[3:48:58]Thank you.
[3:48:59]I'll speak up.
[3:49:00]Thank you, Mr. President,
[3:49:02]for being here, for your service.
[3:49:04]I'll be brief.
[3:49:05]I think most of the pertinent questions
[3:49:06]have been asked today.
[3:49:08]I want to talk about transparency.
[3:49:09]UN Secretary Clinton
[3:49:10]were both very clear about your desire
[3:49:13]to testify publicly before this committee.
[3:49:16]In fact, on February 6, 2026,
[3:49:18]you posted on social media,
[3:49:20]quote, I will not sit idly
[3:49:22]as they use me as a prop
[3:49:23]in a closed-door kangaroo court
[3:49:25]by a Republican party running scared.
[3:49:28]If they want answers,
[3:49:29]let's stop the games
[3:49:30]and do this the right way
[3:49:31]in a public hearing
[3:49:32]where the American people
[3:49:33]can see for themselves
[3:49:34]what this is really about.
[3:49:36]President Clinton,
[3:49:36]why do you feel it is important
[3:49:38]for you to testify before this committee
[3:49:40]in a public setting?
[3:49:44]Because I think that
[3:49:47]first, what happened
[3:49:50]with Jeffrey Epstein was horrible.
[3:49:54]What he did
[3:49:55]and what Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of,
[3:49:59]it was horrible.
[3:50:02]We can't tolerate it in America
[3:50:04]and shouldn't.
[3:50:05]We ought to keep doing
[3:50:07]as Hillary talked about yesterday,
[3:50:09]our part to get rid of that kind of
[3:50:12]trafficking around the world.
[3:50:16]Secondly, I was on the plane.
[3:50:21]It may be that I've said something today
[3:50:22]that gave you some indication
[3:50:24]that would help change policies
[3:50:27]or something.
[3:50:28]So I thought it was important.
[3:50:31]But I also think people know that
[3:50:35]there's been a little bit of zig
[3:50:37]and zag and ambivalence
[3:50:38]about how hard this thing
[3:50:43]should be put out there.
[3:50:46]And I'm not pointing a finger at anybody
[3:50:47]and I'm just saying we know that.
[3:50:50]And so I think it's important
[3:50:56]that we get it all out.
[3:50:59]So to be clear,
[3:51:01]this committee issued a subpoena
[3:51:04]to the Department of Justice
[3:51:05]to release the full
[3:51:05]and unredacted files last summer.
[3:51:07]There's also now the Epstein
[3:51:08]Files Transparency Act
[3:51:10]that asked for the same
[3:51:11]that President Donald Trump
[3:51:12]signed into law.
[3:51:13]But still the Department of Justice
[3:51:15]under this administration
[3:51:16]has not released all of the files
[3:51:18]and there's been many illegal redactions.
[3:51:21]Do you think that we,
[3:51:23]of course as Congress,
[3:51:24]the American public should get
[3:51:25]the full and unredacted files immediately?
[3:51:29]I think unless there is
[3:51:33]some serious danger of physical harm,
[3:51:37]to one of the victims,
[3:51:40]there is some national security
[3:51:43]interest involving intelligence.
[3:51:47]Because you've all,
[3:51:49]you've heard me say some of you
[3:51:51]think that there's some intelligence
[3:51:53]issues, national security issues.
[3:51:55]I think the rest of it
[3:51:56]ought to be gotten out
[3:51:57]and I think we just need to get
[3:51:58]to a point where we can
[3:51:59]put this behind us.
[3:52:01]And then I think you,
[3:52:05]I hope you can and will
[3:52:09]help build us a system
[3:52:13]that works in America
[3:52:14]the way our international system works
[3:52:16]with in trying to identify
[3:52:18]and stop human trafficking
[3:52:20]and trying to make people whole
[3:52:22]once they've been damaged.
[3:52:25]And not a question
[3:52:26]but just in response,
[3:52:27]the law is very clear
[3:52:28]about the identities of the victims.
[3:52:31]Unfortunately the Department of Justice
[3:52:32]has wrongfully released
[3:52:34]some of that information
[3:52:35]including personally identifiable information
[3:52:37]while illegally redacting names
[3:52:41]of potential co-conspirators.
[3:52:42]So they're going to kill me
[3:52:45]for saying this
[3:52:45]but I think it's important to say.
[3:52:47]I think it is entirely possible
[3:52:51]that people in the Justice Department,
[3:52:55]you know, I don't agree
[3:52:55]with on nearly anything, right?
[3:52:57]But it's possible
[3:52:59]that they didn't intentionally
[3:53:02]cover some of this stuff up.
[3:53:04]But it's hard to accept that
[3:53:07]when you look at the other problems
[3:53:08]in dealing with the information.
[3:53:12]So you guys got to clear that up,
[3:53:13]clean it up,
[3:53:14]decide how you think it should be handled.
[3:53:19]Thank you.
[3:53:21]So before we go off the record,
[3:53:23]just one clarification.
[3:53:24]It's more just for counsels.
[3:53:25]The quote from the 2024 memoir
[3:53:29]I think was accurately quoted
[3:53:30]in the first instance.
[3:53:32]The full sentence is, quote,
[3:53:34]he, meaning Mr. Epstein,
[3:53:35]hurt a lot of people
[3:53:37]but I knew nothing about it.
[3:53:38]And by the time he was first arrested in 2005,
[3:53:42]I had stopped contact with him.
[3:53:43]And that's the end of the sentence.
[3:53:44]That's page 373.
[3:53:46]So that's just for counsel and-
[3:53:48]My apology.
[3:53:49]Not at all.
[3:53:49]And with that,
[3:53:50]we can end this round
[3:53:51]and go off the record.
[3:54:01]We'll go back on the record.
[3:54:04]Mr. President,
[3:54:04]during the last hour
[3:54:06]there was a discussion related
[3:54:07]to your book with minority counsel.
[3:54:11]And I just want to read
[3:54:13]the excerpt into the record
[3:54:15]and just a quick question
[3:54:16]for clarification.
[3:54:18]You said,
[3:54:18]I had always thought Epstein was odd
[3:54:21]but had no inkling
[3:54:22]of the crimes he was committing.
[3:54:24]He hurt a lot of people
[3:54:25]but I knew nothing about it.
[3:54:27]And by the time he was first arrested in 2005,
[3:54:30]I had stopped contact with him.
[3:54:35]We understand that Mr. Epstein
[3:54:38]was arrested in July of 2006.
[3:54:42]Can you explain the discrepancy?
[3:54:46]Are you asking him
[3:54:46]to fact check his own book?
[3:54:48]Correct.
[3:54:48]Okay.
[3:54:49]I mean-
[3:54:50]Can you explain it around?
[3:54:51]I can't.
[3:54:52]I'm sorry.
[3:54:52]We made a mistake.
[3:54:54]Thank you.
[3:54:57]All right.
[3:54:57]Mr. President,
[3:54:58]Congresswoman Nancy Mace
[3:54:59]from South Carolina,
[3:55:00]thank you for being here
[3:55:01]with us for hours today.
[3:55:02]Now it's been a long day
[3:55:03]and I know that we're going
[3:55:04]to wrap up soon for you.
[3:55:07]Did you know one of the witnesses
[3:55:08]who testified in the Epstein cases
[3:55:10]that Epstein said,
[3:55:12]you quote,
[3:55:13]like them young.
[3:55:14]Why would Epstein say that about you?
[3:55:16]Are you asking his opinion?
[3:55:18]Are you asking him to think
[3:55:19]about why Mr. Epstein
[3:55:20]would say something about me?
[3:55:21]Why would Epstein say that?
[3:55:23]She's asking you to try to be
[3:55:24]in Mr. Epstein's mind
[3:55:26]and guess at what Mr. Epstein
[3:55:27]would have thought about.
[3:55:28]First of all-
[3:55:29]Who likes them young,
[3:55:30]referring to girls?
[3:55:35]First of all, that's not true.
[3:55:41]What's not true?
[3:55:43]That I have any interest
[3:55:48]in underage girls.
[3:55:50]I didn't say underage,
[3:55:50]I said young.
[3:55:52]But it's still not true.
[3:55:54]Is an intern young?
[3:55:58]Yes.
[3:56:00]At my age, anybody younger
[3:56:01]than I was young.
[3:56:02]Did you know Jeffrey Epstein
[3:56:03]instructed a witness to deny
[3:56:04]you were ever on his island?
[3:56:08]He didn't have to
[3:56:09]since I was never there.
[3:56:10]Did you ever travel to Zorro Ranch?
[3:56:14]Is that the one in New Mexico?
[3:56:15]Yes.
[3:56:15]No.
[3:56:16]Okay, have you ever flown
[3:56:17]on anyone else's private jet
[3:56:19]26 times or more for overseas trips?
[3:56:25]I have flown as many miles
[3:56:27]on other jets,
[3:56:28]but never with as many stops.
[3:56:30]How many other people's planes
[3:56:33]have you used like Epstein
[3:56:34]26 times or miles, et cetera?
[3:56:38]I don't know.
[3:56:39]I did with Steve Bean,
[3:56:41]who's now deceased.
[3:56:44]And probably with four or five others.
[3:56:46]Okay, so maybe about
[3:56:47]a half dozen millionaires total.
[3:56:51]How many dinners
[3:56:51]did you have with
[3:56:52]uh, Ghislaine Maxwell
[3:56:54]or Jeffrey Epstein in attendance?
[3:56:56]She's asking to the best
[3:56:57]of your recollection.
[3:56:58]I have no idea.
[3:56:59]Okay, did you ever discuss
[3:57:01]sexual misconduct allegations
[3:57:03]made against you
[3:57:03]with Epstein or Maxwell?
[3:57:05]Never.
[3:57:06]Did Epstein or Maxwell
[3:57:07]ever offer to help manage
[3:57:08]or silence women
[3:57:08]who made sexual misconduct
[3:57:10]allegations against you?
[3:57:12]No.
[3:57:13]Did Epstein or Maxwell
[3:57:14]ever offer financial support
[3:57:15]directly or indirectly
[3:57:16]to legal defense funds
[3:57:17]related to impeachment proceedings
[3:57:19]or civil actions against you?
[3:57:20]Not to my knowledge.
[3:57:22]Do you think a young girl
[3:57:23]massaging a president is unusual?
[3:57:26]So are you asking his opinion?
[3:57:28]Well, he was massaged
[3:57:29]by a young woman.
[3:57:30]I'm asking if he thinks
[3:57:31]it's unusual that a president,
[3:57:32]sitting president of the United States,
[3:57:34]leader of the free world,
[3:57:35]that it's unusual a young woman would do.
[3:57:37]Are you talking to the instance
[3:57:39]of the back massage
[3:57:42]that occurred while he was not president?
[3:57:44]I'm just trying to understand.
[3:57:45]You said a president
[3:57:45]of the United States.
[3:57:46]One more president.
[3:57:47]Thank you.
[3:57:48]Just trying to make sure
[3:57:48]we're correcting the time frame.
[3:57:49]Are you filibustering?
[3:57:51]No, I don't need to.
[3:57:52]I'm actually trying to make sure
[3:57:52]that as you-
[3:57:53]I think that's pretty clear.
[3:57:54]He said-
[3:57:54]You said he was a sitting president.
[3:57:56]Excuse me.
[3:57:56]Could we just please go one at a time?
[3:57:58]Thank you.
[3:57:58]He said a sitting president.
[3:57:59]I want you to be clear
[3:58:00]so that when he answers you,
[3:58:01]the record is clear.
[3:58:03]Is it unusual?
[3:58:06]I have no idea if it's unusual.
[3:58:07]Objection calls for speculation.
[3:58:09]I figured.
[3:58:11]Did you ever think
[3:58:12]that all these women
[3:58:13]around Jeffrey Epstein
[3:58:14]or Ghislaine Maxwell
[3:58:15]was odd, unusual, weird, or creepy?
[3:58:18]There weren't all that many
[3:58:19]around when I was there.
[3:58:20]How many would you say
[3:58:21]is all not all that many?
[3:58:24]I think on this big plane
[3:58:26]that was working long hours,
[3:58:29]having two to four people on there,
[3:58:30]I thought was,
[3:58:31]as far as I knew,
[3:58:32]they were all helping.
[3:58:35]Flight attendants
[3:58:35]in tank tops and jeans, right?
[3:58:38]No.
[3:58:39]Do you believe you were a victim
[3:58:40]of a Jeffrey Epstein intel operation?
[3:58:45]Do you think that
[3:58:45]you might have been
[3:58:46]do you think that you might have been
[3:58:47]like caught up
[3:58:48]in some of what he was
[3:58:49]maybe potentially doing?
[3:58:52]Excuse me, Congresswoman.
[3:58:54]Which question are you asking?
[3:58:55]I'm asking.
[3:58:56]Intel operation?
[3:58:57]First of all, I don't.
[3:58:58]Some type of intel operation.
[3:58:59]I'm just curious
[3:59:00]because it's been speculated
[3:59:01]on today and yesterday
[3:59:03]that he may have been
[3:59:04]an intel asset.
[3:59:05]Do you think perhaps
[3:59:06]knowing what we know now,
[3:59:08]the proclivity of it all,
[3:59:09]that he may have been targeting you
[3:59:11]as part of an intel operation?
[3:59:13]I doubt it.
[3:59:14]Okay.
[3:59:15]In 2019, you stated
[3:59:17]after he was arrested,
[3:59:18]I guess this would be the second time.
[3:59:20]You stated you knew nothing
[3:59:21]of Epstein's quote terrible crimes
[3:59:23]since you only met quote briefly
[3:59:25]on only quote two occasions.
[3:59:27]Was this statement false?
[3:59:29]Excuse me, Congresswoman.
[3:59:30]That's not an accurate statement.
[3:59:33]Yes.
[3:59:34]In 2019 as reported by the media.
[3:59:37]Which media?
[3:59:38]This says this is the
[3:59:40]Can you share a copy of it, please?
[3:59:41]Daily Beast.
[3:59:42]It says the title of this
[3:59:44]is Bill Clinton failed to mention
[3:59:45]his intimate 1995 dinner with Epstein.
[3:59:49]We can get counsel
[3:59:50]on the witness in a moment
[3:59:51]to review the exhibit.
[3:59:53]Well, we like the statement.
[3:59:54]I mean, he put out a statement
[3:59:56]in 2019, full statement.
[3:59:58]And it will be marked exhibit 22.
[4:00:03]So to be clear,
[4:00:05]the basis of your question
[4:00:06]is a news article
[4:00:07]with respect to the Daily Beast
[4:00:08]as to a dinner.
[4:00:09]Is that accurate?
[4:00:10]No, it's a question
[4:00:11]in the first paragraph
[4:00:12]which reads hours after Jeffrey Epstein
[4:00:14]was arraigned Monday
[4:00:16]on several sex trafficking charges.
[4:00:17]Former President Bill Clinton
[4:00:19]publicly downplayed his relationship
[4:00:20]with the pedophile financier
[4:00:22]saying he knew nothing
[4:00:23]of his terrible crimes
[4:00:24]since they only met briefly
[4:00:25]on two occasions.
[4:00:27]And that's in the Daily Beast.
[4:00:28]Correct.
[4:00:29]Which is in your hand right now.
[4:00:30]Right.
[4:00:30]That's what I just said.
[4:00:32]Thank you.
[4:00:34]What was your question?
[4:00:35]So my question is
[4:00:36]you stated you'd only met
[4:00:37]Jeffrey Epstein in 2019.
[4:00:39]You said you'd only met him
[4:00:40]on two occasions.
[4:00:41]Was this statement false
[4:00:43]when you made it?
[4:00:43]To be clear,
[4:00:44]this is a news reporting
[4:00:45]that is saying that
[4:00:46]that's what you said.
[4:00:46]Did you make this statement in 2019?
[4:00:48]Time is up.
[4:00:49]Would you put in the statement
[4:00:50]that he made?
[4:00:51]This is a news report.
[4:00:52]Okay.
[4:00:52]Double hearsay.
[4:00:53]Did you?
[4:00:54]No.
[4:00:54]Did you make this statement
[4:00:55]in 2019 as reported by the media?
[4:00:58]So you're asking whether or not
[4:00:59]he made a statement
[4:00:59]to the Daily Beast?
[4:01:00]No.
[4:01:01]It says quote,
[4:01:01]it's quoting him
[4:01:02]or his office, et cetera.
[4:01:04]Are you denying you made this statement?
[4:01:05]It's quoting a sentence.
[4:01:06]If you put in the entire statement,
[4:01:09]that's all we ask.
[4:01:09]To be fair,
[4:01:10]give him the statement,
[4:01:11]not somebody's report on it.
[4:01:12]I have no idea
[4:01:13]what the Daily Beast's stake is.
[4:01:15]It was a statement
[4:01:15]that was released
[4:01:16]that was broader than this
[4:01:17]and they relied on
[4:01:18]only a portion of it.
[4:01:20]They relied on only a portion
[4:01:21]of his full statement.
[4:01:22]And that's the portion
[4:01:22]I'm focusing on.
[4:01:23]Well, then,
[4:01:25]so it's actually
[4:01:26]a misrepresentation
[4:01:27]of his entire statement.
[4:01:28]Well, can you let your client
[4:01:30]answer the question?
[4:01:31]Well, can you ask it
[4:01:32]in a way that would make it clear
[4:01:33]that what you are actually asking
[4:01:34]is the broader question of
[4:01:37]what did he say?
[4:01:38]He said he briefly met with him
[4:01:40]only on two occasions.
[4:01:41]The Daily Beast selected that piece out.
[4:01:43]Are you denying that
[4:01:43]the president made this statement?
[4:01:45]What I'm saying is that
[4:01:46]there is an entire statement.
[4:01:47]That's the statement on which
[4:01:48]the president spoke to.
[4:01:50]Would you like to provide
[4:01:51]it to this committee?
[4:01:51]We're happily to provide
[4:01:53]that committee.
[4:01:53]Okay, I would like to ask
[4:01:54]the president this question.
[4:01:56]Was that a false statement
[4:01:57]that you made in 2019
[4:01:58]that you only met with
[4:01:59]Jeffrey Epstein briefly
[4:02:00]on two occasions?
[4:02:01]Object to the basis
[4:02:02]of this question.
[4:02:03]This is you're asking him
[4:02:04]about a news article,
[4:02:06]not the statement he made.
[4:02:07]It's quoting him.
[4:02:07]It's quoting the president
[4:02:08]of the United States.
[4:02:10]Are you denying the president
[4:02:12]made this statement?
[4:02:13]Are you denying he made this statement?
[4:02:15]I want to know.
[4:02:16]I'm telling you that
[4:02:17]the president made a full statement.
[4:02:18]You are selecting a piece of it.
[4:02:21]Let's put in the entire statement he made.
[4:02:23]I wasn't in federal office in 2019.
[4:02:26]I was not a part of this committee.
[4:02:27]I was a state house rep
[4:02:28]from Goose Creek, South Carolina.
[4:02:30]And I'm quoting open sources
[4:02:32]that I have to the best of my knowledge.
[4:02:34]I'm not rich with a bunch of attorneys.
[4:02:36]Okay, I'm doing the best that I can
[4:02:38]to get the information that I can.
[4:02:39]And I'm asking if the president
[4:02:41]was telling a lie in 2019
[4:02:43]when he stated to the public
[4:02:45]he'd only met with Jeffrey Epstein
[4:02:46]on two occasions.
[4:02:47]He did not say that to the public.
[4:02:48]You're misrepresenting.
[4:02:50]Let me be clear,
[4:02:51]not asking about your right
[4:02:53]to ask him any question,
[4:02:54]but don't do it on the basis
[4:02:55]of a news article.
[4:02:56]The news article is quoting his statement.
[4:02:58]So is the news article lying?
[4:03:00]Is the news article false?
[4:03:01]It's false if you take it to me
[4:03:04]what you say,
[4:03:04]which the statement did not do.
[4:03:06]Do you understand English?
[4:03:08]I think I do.
[4:03:09]I'm not from South Carolina,
[4:03:10]but I think I do.
[4:03:11]Did you make a statement,
[4:03:12]Mr. President, in 2019
[4:03:13]that you only met with Jeffrey Epstein twice?
[4:03:17]I'm asking a question a different way.
[4:03:20]I have no idea,
[4:03:21]but I think that when I answer that,
[4:03:27]I don't believe I remembered anything
[4:03:29]about meeting him in 1995.
[4:03:31]So when making a statement
[4:03:33]about Jeffrey Epstein in 2019,
[4:03:35]would you have checked with your staff
[4:03:37]on maybe White House logs
[4:03:38]about the 17 times he visited,
[4:03:40]dinners you had with him,
[4:03:41]fundraising that you did with him,
[4:03:42]fundraising dinners he was in on.
[4:03:45]You were on his flights 26 times.
[4:03:47]Would you have checked with your staff
[4:03:49]before making such a statement,
[4:03:50]or would you just go on?
[4:03:52]What statement are you talking about?
[4:03:53]Are you talking about the entire statement
[4:03:55]that he made in 2019?
[4:03:56]Ms. Mace, can I just ask you for the record?
[4:03:58]I don't understand my question.
[4:04:00]Ms. Mace, can I ask you for the record?
[4:04:01]Can you read the article
[4:04:02]into the record, please?
[4:04:03]I'm not going to read the article
[4:04:04]into the record.
[4:04:05]Well, Ms. Mace, you are indicating
[4:04:07]that this article misrepresents a piece.
[4:04:09]You did not ask anybody
[4:04:10]to read an article into the record.
[4:04:11]I'm not going to do that.
[4:04:12]You've not done that yet.
[4:04:14]I'm not going to.
[4:04:15]You're not in charge of me.
[4:04:16]I am quoting from this article.
[4:04:17]I'm not seeking to be in charge of you.
[4:04:18]Believe me, that is something
[4:04:19]I would not at all seek to be.
[4:04:21]So I want to be respectful.
[4:04:23]But I am asking,
[4:04:24]if you're asking him to speak to this,
[4:04:26]can you please put the entire article
[4:04:28]in the record?
[4:04:29]The entire article is in the record
[4:04:30]as an exhibit.
[4:04:31]What exhibit number is this?
[4:04:32]22.
[4:04:33]22.
[4:04:34]And yet?
[4:04:35]It's already in the record, Councilor.
[4:04:36]The question has been clarified
[4:04:37]to reflect only the small portion
[4:04:40]of the larger statement
[4:04:41]to whatever extent
[4:04:42]the witness is able to answer
[4:04:43]to his recollection
[4:04:44]of that portion of the statement
[4:04:46]and any preparation that occurred
[4:04:49]to make that statement.
[4:04:51]So in other words,
[4:04:52]what you have just articulated
[4:04:54]that the question's been clarified
[4:04:56]by Ms. Mace or by you,
[4:04:58]that what is intended is
[4:05:00]to actually only be speaking
[4:05:01]to the selected piece
[4:05:02]out of the entire statement
[4:05:04]that was released
[4:05:05]by the president's office.
[4:05:06]Is that what you're clarifying?
[4:05:07]That's what I'm focused on, yes.
[4:05:09]So if you read this,
[4:05:16]you really want to know
[4:05:18]is if I was at a dinner?
[4:05:20]No, I don't.
[4:05:20]My question was about your statement.
[4:05:22]No, sir.
[4:05:24]No, sir.
[4:05:24]I'm not asking about that dinner.
[4:05:26]I'm asking about the statement
[4:05:27]at the beginning of the article.
[4:05:28]I would like to ask another question.
[4:05:30]Your statement in 2019
[4:05:32]about only meeting with Jeffrey Epstein
[4:05:34]on two occasions briefly.
[4:05:36]That is not a correct.
[4:05:37]I'm going to object to that characterization.
[4:05:39]That is not what the statement says.
[4:05:40]You're reading the Daily Beast article.
[4:05:43]So to be clear.
[4:05:43]Which is a leftist rag, by the way.
[4:05:45]And on the third paragraph down,
[4:05:46]it says in his Monday statement,
[4:05:47]Clinton said he had only, quote,
[4:05:49]one meeting with Epstein
[4:05:50]in his Harlem office in 2002
[4:05:53]and around the same time
[4:05:54]made one brief visit to Epstein's
[4:05:55]New York Department with a staff member
[4:05:57]and his security detail.
[4:05:58]Those are the two weeks that were referenced.
[4:06:00]So the Daily Beast,
[4:06:01]Bill Clinton failed to mention
[4:06:03]his intimate dinner 1995 day
[4:06:04]with Epstein.
[4:06:06]That's by Pilar Melendez
[4:06:08]on the 11th of July, 2019.
[4:06:11]All right.
[4:06:11]Mr. President, your statement saying,
[4:06:14]you know, only met with Epstein briefly twice.
[4:06:17]Was that part of an effort
[4:06:18]to cover up your close relationship
[4:06:19]with Jeffrey Epstein?
[4:06:20]Objects to the form of the question.
[4:06:21]Mistakes the record.
[4:06:24]She's asking if you were trying
[4:06:25]to mislead the public.
[4:06:29]Okay.
[4:06:29]How many times did Billy Maxwell
[4:06:31]visit your home in Chappaqua?
[4:06:33]I have no idea.
[4:06:35]Who invited her?
[4:06:37]Well, I don't know.
[4:06:39]I don't know how she may have been.
[4:06:41]Mr. President, that's it.
[4:06:43]Okay.
[4:06:44]Hillary had political events there.
[4:06:46]Okay. So is it in your,
[4:06:48]is it to your knowledge
[4:06:51]was that was she at your home
[4:06:52]in Chappaqua likely
[4:06:54]because your wife had her
[4:06:55]over for Senate events?
[4:06:56]That's what you testified
[4:06:57]earlier today, correct?
[4:06:58]That's not what he testified,
[4:06:59]but please ask the question
[4:07:00]as to what he would actually.
[4:07:01]Thank you.
[4:07:02]I appreciate that.
[4:07:02]I do not know.
[4:07:03]But if you are implying the reverse,
[4:07:06]I will volunteer something.
[4:07:08]She was never in my house
[4:07:10]in Chappaqua for any personal reasons.
[4:07:14]I didn't, I didn't,
[4:07:15]I didn't say anything for anything.
[4:07:16]No, you didn't.
[4:07:17]But you had a great tone in your voice
[4:07:19]and you're very good at it.
[4:07:21]Thank you.
[4:07:21]I'll take that as a compliment.
[4:07:22]It is a compliment.
[4:07:23]Thank you.
[4:07:23]And I did not go to Yale Law School
[4:07:25]or any law school for that matter.
[4:07:27]So yesterday your wife testified
[4:07:29]that Billy Maxwell was never at her home.
[4:07:32]And I believe you said it earlier today.
[4:07:33]You thought if she was over there
[4:07:35]it would be for Senate events.
[4:07:36]So would, was your wife falsely
[4:07:39]testified yesterday?
[4:07:40]Mischaracterizes.
[4:07:41]So he doesn't have the benefit
[4:07:42]of his wife's testimony yesterday.
[4:07:44]So unless you all are going
[4:07:45]to provide the transcript
[4:07:46]or you're going to actually
[4:07:47]provide that information,
[4:07:48]she's not in a position
[4:07:48]that we could address that.
[4:07:49]I believe all I said
[4:07:50]was that I didn't know.
[4:07:52]Okay.
[4:07:52]That she had done.
[4:07:54]You said, you said you posture
[4:07:56]that maybe it was for her Senate.
[4:07:57]I'm going to have one last question,
[4:07:59]Mr. Chairman, and then you may take,
[4:08:01]you'll take over.
[4:08:02]I believe you stated today on around.
[4:08:04]I know it's been a number of years
[4:08:05]on around 2008 you ended
[4:08:07]or before that ended your
[4:08:09]any communication with Jeffrey Epstein.
[4:08:11]Correct.
[4:08:12]But around the time you got arrested
[4:08:13]or right beforehand.
[4:08:15]And he was arrested for
[4:08:17]child sexual prostitution
[4:08:19]or hiring girls for sex
[4:08:21]or one girl for sex.
[4:08:22]Correct.
[4:08:22]Roughly child sexual exploitation.
[4:08:27]If you were aware in 2008
[4:08:28]that Jeffrey Epstein
[4:08:29]was having sex with kids
[4:08:31]and you knew of his close
[4:08:32]association with the lane Maxwell.
[4:08:34]Why would you still associate
[4:08:36]with lane Maxwell who you
[4:08:37]dub essentially like your dug band
[4:08:39]your she was the body man to Epstein.
[4:08:40]The band was the body man to you.
[4:08:42]And why would you allow the lane
[4:08:43]Maxwell to associate with your daughter
[4:08:45]up until 2004, 2015?
[4:08:49]You knew he was a bad guy.
[4:08:50]Why would you allow your daughter?
[4:08:51]Excuse me.
[4:08:51]What's the period in which
[4:08:52]you're saying he would have known
[4:08:53]that Jeffrey Epstein after 2008.
[4:08:55]So up until the lane Maxwell
[4:08:57]was involved with CGI until what?
[4:08:58]2015 and we we confirmed today
[4:09:01]that he had a dinner with lane
[4:09:02]Maxwell in LA in 2014.
[4:09:04]So he's still hanging out
[4:09:06]with a close associate,
[4:09:07]the closest associate to convicted
[4:09:09]pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
[4:09:10]But excuse me.
[4:09:12]I guess my question is why?
[4:09:13]Yes, the question.
[4:09:15]Excuse me.
[4:09:16]Is the question why
[4:09:17]your lane Maxwell came to the wedding?
[4:09:19]Is that the question?
[4:09:20]No, that was.
[4:09:20]I didn't even bring up the wedding.
[4:09:22]Why are you about this game?
[4:09:23]Are you putting words in my mouth?
[4:09:24]You're smarter than that.
[4:09:26]No, no, thank you.
[4:09:28]I think.
[4:09:31]First of all.
[4:09:37]When the wedding occurred,
[4:09:43]she was with.
[4:09:45]Ted White.
[4:09:47]And she was for several more years.
[4:09:50]We did not know.
[4:09:53]When Epstein was arrested that
[4:09:56]she was still involved with him.
[4:10:00]I think that clears a lot of this up.
[4:10:02]We didn't know.
[4:10:04]And I don't want all of you to get
[4:10:07]we're all getting in a lather.
[4:10:08]There's a lot of logical explanation
[4:10:10]we didn't know.
[4:10:16]I'm sorry for what she did
[4:10:18]and what she allowed her life to become.
[4:10:20]And now she's living with it.
[4:10:22]And then one final short question.
[4:10:24]I promise I'm done.
[4:10:25]I was severely and heavily duped
[4:10:26]by an individual in my life
[4:10:28]about two and a half years ago.
[4:10:29]It's very publicly well known.
[4:10:31]You graduated from Georgetown and Yale, correct?
[4:10:34]Yeah.
[4:10:34]How do you think
[4:10:35]Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein do?
[4:10:37]So many powerful and smart people.
[4:10:40]Fully connected,
[4:10:41]powerful people all around the world.
[4:10:46]I really don't know.
[4:10:50]But I don't know.
[4:10:52]I've thought about it a lot.
[4:10:55]And if you can figure it out,
[4:10:56]I'd like to know.
[4:10:57]But thank you, Mr. President.
[4:10:58]And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
[4:11:08]I would like to say.
[4:11:11]Since you made a great deal
[4:11:13]out of all this Ivy League stuff,
[4:11:15]I'm also the last president
[4:11:19]ever to live in a place without indoor plumbing.
[4:11:23]There's a full statement
[4:11:24]which we'll be happy to provide
[4:11:25]for the record that
[4:11:27]it might be that Representative Mace
[4:11:28]is unaware of.
[4:11:29]But the full statement says
[4:11:30]President Clinton knows nothing
[4:11:31]about the terrible crimes
[4:11:32]Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to Florida
[4:11:34]some years ago
[4:11:35]or those with which
[4:11:36]he's recently been charged in 2002.
[4:11:38]In 2003, President Clinton took
[4:11:40]a total of four trips
[4:11:41]on Jeffrey Epstein's airplane.
[4:11:43]One to Europe, one to Asia, two to Africa,
[4:11:44]which included stops in connection
[4:11:46]with the work of the Clinton Foundation
[4:11:48]staff and supporters.
[4:11:49]Secret Service detail traveled with him
[4:11:51]on his trip.
[4:11:52]He had one meeting with Epstein
[4:11:54]in his Harlem office 2002.
[4:11:55]Around the same time,
[4:11:56]he made a brief visit to New York.
[4:11:57]That was the full statement.
[4:12:00]Ms. Mace was selecting portions
[4:12:02]out of the statement
[4:12:03]or relying on an article
[4:12:05]which only shows certain portions
[4:12:07]of the full statement.
[4:12:09]Let's go.
[4:12:11]Ms. Lerner from Florida.
[4:12:12]Mr. President, I just wanted to do
[4:12:14]a couple of follow-ups.
[4:12:16]Regarding your personal
[4:12:18]conversations with Mr. Epstein,
[4:12:19]you said that he wanted to discuss
[4:12:21]economic and political questions.
[4:12:24]Was there ever
[4:12:25]a particular region of the world
[4:12:27]or topics that he wanted
[4:12:28]to reoccur in the dress?
[4:12:34]I do remember that he was interested
[4:12:39]in the two places
[4:12:42]that I was setting up the AIDS work
[4:12:44]in Asia and Africa.
[4:12:46]And Asia, he wanted to know
[4:12:48]I thought it was going to be
[4:12:51]the Asian century
[4:12:52]and the thing would be sustainable.
[4:12:55]And in Africa, he wanted to know
[4:12:57]whether I believe that
[4:13:02]you could have broad-based prosperity
[4:13:04]there where they could achieve
[4:13:05]something that they'd never
[4:13:07]achieved before.
[4:13:08]It seems that Mr. Epstein
[4:13:09]also had asked a similar question
[4:13:11]about America's prosperity
[4:13:14]and economic policy.
[4:13:16]Did you feel that
[4:13:17]when he was asking questions,
[4:13:18]particularly maybe pertaining
[4:13:20]to the regulation of our stock market
[4:13:23]and or derivative trading,
[4:13:27]did he on a number of occasions
[4:13:29]come back to that
[4:13:30]and maybe pick your brain
[4:13:32]about policy or future policy
[4:13:34]in the United States?
[4:13:37]No more than any other big issue.
[4:13:39]I knew that everybody lives
[4:13:43]in New York with money
[4:13:44]and he made his money
[4:13:47]advising Les Wexner,
[4:13:48]so he had to be interested
[4:13:49]in markets.
[4:13:50]Okay, and then I know that
[4:13:52]Galeen was a little bit more
[4:13:54]probably chatty with you.
[4:13:55]Did she ever share a similar interest
[4:13:57]to Mr. Epstein on economics
[4:13:59]or political topics of discussion?
[4:14:03]Were there any reoccurring topics
[4:14:04]that you felt that she
[4:14:05]wanted to focus on?
[4:14:06]Not that I noticed.
[4:14:08]Okay, all right.
[4:14:09]Thank you.
[4:14:10]Thank you, Mr. President.
[4:14:19]Mr. President,
[4:14:20]we've covered a lot of topics today
[4:14:22]and I'm going to walk through
[4:14:24]some topics we've already covered
[4:14:26]just to ask some questions
[4:14:28]for clarification.
[4:14:30]First, during your relationship
[4:14:34]or the time that you knew
[4:14:35]Mr. Epstein,
[4:14:36]what did you understand
[4:14:37]his job to be?
[4:14:44]I'm not sure I knew.
[4:14:46]It was never clear to me,
[4:14:52]but he could have been living
[4:14:53]on investing the profits
[4:14:55]he'd already made.
[4:14:57]I knew he was a finance guy.
[4:14:59]And you just testified
[4:15:02]to Les Wexner being one of his clients.
[4:15:06]Did he ever make
[4:15:08]any other representations
[4:15:09]about who his clients were?
[4:15:12]No, but I never asked either.
[4:15:16]During the time that you knew him,
[4:15:18]did Epstein ever provide you
[4:15:20]with financial advice?
[4:15:23]No.
[4:15:24]Did he ever provide you
[4:15:25]with tax advice?
[4:15:26]No.
[4:15:30]Did you ever personally receive
[4:15:32]money from Mr. Epstein?
[4:15:33]No.
[4:15:34]Did Mr. Epstein ever loan you
[4:15:36]money in your personal capacity?
[4:15:38]Not to my knowledge.
[4:15:40]So to be clear,
[4:15:42]did you ever exchange money
[4:15:43]with Mr. Epstein?
[4:15:45]Not that I remember.
[4:15:46]I don't believe I did.
[4:15:54]And throughout today's questioning,
[4:15:56]we talked about the various properties
[4:15:58]that Mr. Epstein owned.
[4:16:01]You testified to have visited
[4:16:04]the Manhattan townhouse.
[4:16:05]Is that right?
[4:16:07]Yes, I did go there once.
[4:16:08]And just for clarification,
[4:16:12]it's been reported that
[4:16:13]what we've seen from the files,
[4:16:15]from the DOJ,
[4:16:17]Mr. Epstein decorated his home
[4:16:19]with creepy and disturbing artwork.
[4:16:21]Did you notice anything unusual
[4:16:25]as far as his decor?
[4:16:27]I was only on the first floor,
[4:16:32]ground floor.
[4:16:33]I did not see anything like that
[4:16:35]there in any of the rooms
[4:16:38]that I saw.
[4:16:41]It's been reported that
[4:16:43]Mr. Epstein had cameras
[4:16:46]on his premises.
[4:16:47]Did you notice anything,
[4:16:48]any cameras at the
[4:16:51]Manhattan townhouse?
[4:16:52]I didn't, but that may
[4:16:55]have been the whole point.
[4:17:02]Mr. Epstein apparently rented
[4:17:03]a property in Boston at one point.
[4:17:05]Did you ever visit that property?
[4:17:07]No.
[4:17:09]Did you ever visit Mr. Epstein's
[4:17:11]apartment in Paris?
[4:17:13]No.
[4:17:15]Did Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell
[4:17:17]ever invite you to his property
[4:17:19]in Paris?
[4:17:20]No.
[4:17:26]Did you ever visit Mr. Epstein's
[4:17:28]home in Palm Beach?
[4:17:30]No.
[4:17:31]Were you ever invited by
[4:17:32]Epstein or Maxwell to visit
[4:17:34]the Palm Beach property?
[4:17:35]I don't think so.
[4:17:37]Did you ever visit
[4:17:38]Glane Maxwell's New York townhouse?
[4:17:43]No, I don't even know
[4:17:44]that I knew she had a townhouse.
[4:17:52]I knew about that.
[4:17:53]The only thing that he ever
[4:17:54]said anything to me about Jeffrey
[4:17:56]was the New Mexico Ranch,
[4:17:58]and I never went there.
[4:18:06]Did he invite you to
[4:18:08]the New Mexico Ranch?
[4:18:10]Sort of.
[4:18:12]I mean, he was a little, you know,
[4:18:14]but I didn't go.
[4:18:20]By then, I didn't go.
[4:18:24]Was there a reason?
[4:18:26]I don't remember, but I didn't.
[4:18:28]I think it was as we got closer
[4:18:30]to the end that he said
[4:18:32]something about it.
[4:18:35]Mr. President, in 2005,
[4:18:37]police in Palm Beach, Florida
[4:18:39]began investigating Epstein
[4:18:41]in July 2006.
[4:18:43]Epstein was arrested for the first time
[4:18:45]for soliciting prostitution for minors.
[4:18:47]For the record,
[4:18:48]prior to Mr. Epstein's arrest,
[4:18:50]were you aware of any investigation
[4:18:52]into Mr. Epstein?
[4:18:54]No.
[4:18:55]On October 20th of 2005,
[4:18:58]police executed a search warrant
[4:19:00]for Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach,
[4:19:01]Florida home.
[4:19:03]Palm Beach detective
[4:19:05]Joseph R. Carey spoke out
[4:19:06]about his belief that Epstein
[4:19:07]was tipped off about the raid
[4:19:09]since multiple computers
[4:19:11]expected to be at the house
[4:19:12]were missing when the search
[4:19:14]warrant was executed.
[4:19:18]To your knowledge,
[4:19:21]was Mr. Epstein tipped off
[4:19:24]about the October 20th
[4:19:25]search warrant in Palm Beach?
[4:19:27]He's asking for your knowledge.
[4:19:28]I don't know.
[4:19:28]It's the first I've heard of it.
[4:19:37]I'm only asking for your knowledge, Mr. President.
[4:19:52]Mr. President,
[4:19:53]did you ever make any kind
[4:19:56]of attempt to influence
[4:19:57]the media's coverage of Jeffrey Epstein?
[4:20:02]At this time, I'd like to introduce
[4:20:03]what he'd marked as Majority Exhibit 23.
[4:20:08]And this is Bates number EFTA
[4:20:11]02792895.
[4:20:20]One page.
[4:20:23]Yes, ma'am.
[4:20:25]Thank you.
[4:20:37]And this is email from Virginia
[4:20:39]Joufray, an Epstein victim
[4:20:42]that alleged that you walked
[4:20:43]into Vanity Fair
[4:20:44]and that threatened them
[4:20:46]not to write sex trafficking
[4:20:48]articles about your good friend
[4:20:50]Jeffrey Epstein.
[4:20:53]Mr. President, is this true?
[4:20:55]No.
[4:21:01]No.
[4:21:04]Not no.
[4:21:04]Hell no.
[4:21:05]Not close.
[4:21:06]No.
[4:21:10]Why do you think Ms. Joufray
[4:21:11]would make these claims?
[4:21:12]Are you asking him to
[4:21:13]have an opinion about Ms. Joufray's
[4:21:16]point of mind?
[4:21:18]Can we not do that?
[4:21:19]Ask him about the facts that he knows
[4:21:21]as opposed to asking about the facts
[4:21:22]in other people's minds.
[4:21:24]Mr. President, have you ever asked
[4:21:26]any other publication to shut down
[4:21:28]a story related to Mr. Epstein?
[4:21:31]No.
[4:21:34]And by any other publication
[4:21:35]counsel, he's answered the question
[4:21:37]about Vanity Fair, correct?
[4:21:39]Yes.
[4:21:41]Absolutely, didn't I?
[4:21:42]Okay.
[4:21:43]No.
[4:21:52]Mr. President, did you ever
[4:21:53]advocate for or suggest leniency
[4:21:56]in Epstein's case
[4:21:57]to any government officials,
[4:21:59]including those in the Department
[4:22:00]of Justice or Florida State
[4:22:02]Attorney's Office?
[4:22:03]No.
[4:22:06]On June 30th of 2008,
[4:22:08]Epstein pleaded guilty
[4:22:09]in Palm Beach County, Florida,
[4:22:11]state court to two felony charges,
[4:22:14]one count of solicitation
[4:22:15]of prostitution, and one count
[4:22:17]of procurement of a person
[4:22:19]under 18 for prostitution.
[4:22:21]He was subsequently sentenced
[4:22:23]to 18 months in Florida County
[4:22:24]Jail and began serving a sentence
[4:22:26]on June 30th of 2008.
[4:22:29]To be clear, you have not
[4:22:31]had any direct contact
[4:22:33]with Epstein after his arrest
[4:22:35]in 2006, is that right?
[4:22:37]That's correct.
[4:22:39]After his arrest or after
[4:22:40]the publication of
[4:22:41]when he went to jail in 2008?
[4:22:43]Can you just clarify the dates there?
[4:22:45]I will ask another question.
[4:22:47]To be clear, you have not
[4:22:48]had any direct contact
[4:22:50]with Epstein after his arrest
[4:22:52]and when he was
[4:22:53]incarcerated in 2008.
[4:22:55]Yes, to the best of my memory,
[4:22:57]that's correct.
[4:22:59]Are you aware of any effort
[4:23:01]by Epstein to contact you
[4:23:03]while he was incarcerated
[4:23:04]in Florida?
[4:23:05]I'm not.
[4:23:07]Mr. President, who is
[4:23:09]Arnold Paul Prosperi?
[4:23:12]I think that he's a son
[4:23:17]of a guy I went to Georgetown with
[4:23:22]named Paul Prosperi.
[4:23:26]I think that's right.
[4:23:27]And I saw in all these things
[4:23:30]that my staff gave me
[4:23:31]that he was mentioned,
[4:23:34]but I don't think anybody
[4:23:36]said anything to me.
[4:23:37]I have no memory of them.
[4:23:43]So is it your testimony today
[4:23:46]that we and actually
[4:23:48]let me back up here.
[4:23:49]So according to jail logs,
[4:23:53]Mr. Prosperi visited Epstein
[4:23:54]at least 20 times
[4:23:55]while Epstein was incarcerated
[4:23:57]in Palm Beach County jail
[4:23:58]between 2008 and 2009.
[4:24:02]Based on what you just said,
[4:24:04]is it your testimony
[4:24:07]that you believe that to be the son
[4:24:09]of the man you went to college with?
[4:24:11]It could be, but he didn't talk to me.
[4:24:27]Thank you, Mr. President.
[4:24:29]Last week, Lex Wexner
[4:24:32]testified that Jeffrey Epstein
[4:24:33]often named off powerful people
[4:24:35]to give himself an air of credibility.
[4:24:37]Did he ever do that to you?
[4:24:40]Brag about people he knew
[4:24:43]in high places, kings, princes?
[4:24:46]Yeah, he did a little bit.
[4:24:53]Going back to what was mentioned earlier
[4:24:56]about the search warrant
[4:24:59]on October 20th in Palm Beach
[4:25:01]for Jeffrey Epstein,
[4:25:04]Mrs. Clinton testified yesterday.
[4:25:06]I think she mentioned
[4:25:09]that it appears he got
[4:25:10]a sweetheart plea deal
[4:25:12]and I don't think anyone
[4:25:13]on this committee would disagree
[4:25:14]with that when Alex Acosta
[4:25:16]was the U.S. attorney down there.
[4:25:18]And we've already deposed Mr. Acosta
[4:25:20]and we've got the transcripts
[4:25:22]and everything.
[4:25:24]There's a lot of speculation
[4:25:26]as had been mentioned
[4:25:28]that he may have been tipped off
[4:25:29]prior to the search warrant
[4:25:32]that Epstein may have been tipped off.
[4:25:34]Are you aware that whether or not
[4:25:36]Sandy Berger may have tipped off
[4:25:39]Jeffrey Epstein?
[4:25:40]The president just testified
[4:25:41]that he was unaware
[4:25:42]that anybody had been tipped off.
[4:25:44]So are you asking him to?
[4:25:45]This explains why I was asked
[4:25:47]yesterday about him.
[4:25:48]But no, I know nothing about that
[4:25:51]and I wouldn't.
[4:25:54]Mr. Epstein was indicted
[4:25:56]by a grand jury on July 19th, 2006
[4:26:01]according to an IRS form 990
[4:26:03]filed by the COUQ Foundation
[4:26:07]a known Epstein entity.
[4:26:09]Mr. Epstein donated $25,000
[4:26:12]to the William J. Clinton Foundation
[4:26:14]one day prior to Mr. Epstein's
[4:26:17]indictment.
[4:26:19]Are you aware of this donation?
[4:26:22]I know that they tell me
[4:26:24]that the records showed
[4:26:25]that he'd given $25,000.
[4:26:27]When did you become aware of that,
[4:26:28]Mr. President?
[4:26:29]Were you aware of that then
[4:26:29]or in preparation?
[4:26:30]No, no, now.
[4:26:31]I mean when I was preparing for this.
[4:26:34]Yes, sir.
[4:26:35]Did you solicit that donation
[4:26:37]from Mr. Epstein?
[4:26:38]Not personally.
[4:26:39]I didn't know.
[4:26:40]Did someone else solicited?
[4:26:42]I have no idea.
[4:26:45]Do you know why Mr. Epstein
[4:26:47]made that donation?
[4:26:48]He's asking you to speculate
[4:26:49]about what Mr. Epstein
[4:26:50]would be thinking.
[4:26:50]We try to raise a fair amount of money
[4:26:52]every year to pay the bills.
[4:26:55]It seems to me that as investigators
[4:26:58]we're nearing in on Mr. Epstein
[4:27:00]he may have been trying to earn
[4:27:01]some goodwill with you.
[4:27:04]What do you think about that?
[4:27:06]It wouldn't work.
[4:27:08]Did it ever seem to you
[4:27:09]that Jeffrey Epstein
[4:27:11]was trying to suck up to you
[4:27:12]or get on your good side
[4:27:13]in order to further his schemes?
[4:27:16]No, I didn't think about it that way.
[4:27:18]I thought he wanted to do what he said.
[4:27:21]But he was, you know,
[4:27:22]very idiosyncratic.
[4:27:24]Right.
[4:27:26]After his arrest in 2006
[4:27:28]did you have any further contact
[4:27:30]with Mr. Epstein?
[4:27:31]I don't believe I did, no.
[4:27:33]Did anyone affiliated with Epstein
[4:27:35]including Ms. Maxwell
[4:27:37]contact you on behalf of
[4:27:39]Jeffrey Epstein to discuss his arrest
[4:27:41]and the allegations against him?
[4:27:43]No.
[4:27:45]Did they ever ask either
[4:27:48]Jeffrey Epstein or Ms. Maxwell
[4:27:50]ever ask you for their assistance
[4:27:53]once Epstein was in trouble?
[4:27:56]No.
[4:27:59]Or once Ms. Maxwell was in trouble?
[4:28:01]No.
[4:28:04]Did Jeffrey Epstein
[4:28:05]ever attempt to contact you
[4:28:06]while he was incarcerated in Florida?
[4:28:10]No.
[4:28:10]He didn't attempt ever to contact you?
[4:28:12]Not as far as I know, no.
[4:28:15]Yesterday during the deposition
[4:28:19]of Secretary Clinton
[4:28:21]she suggested that we
[4:28:23]follow the money with Epstein
[4:28:25]because there's a big question
[4:28:26]how did he accumulate so much wealth?
[4:28:28]And I think you had testified earlier
[4:28:30]and if I'm wrong
[4:28:31]feel free to correct me
[4:28:32]that you didn't really know
[4:28:34]how he made his money.
[4:28:35]I mean he had a big plane and...
[4:28:39]I knew that he had made
[4:28:41]an extraordinary amount of money
[4:28:43]from Les Wexner
[4:28:45]who was quite wealthy.
[4:28:47]I had no idea
[4:28:49]whether he had made enough
[4:28:51]to support the lifestyle that I saw.
[4:28:54]And I assume you're aware
[4:28:56]Mr. Wexner testified under oath
[4:28:58]that he acted like
[4:28:59]he really didn't know
[4:29:00]Jeffrey Epstein very well
[4:29:02]which is kind of hard to believe
[4:29:05]because he paid him a lot of money.
[4:29:06]Yeah, he made him.
[4:29:09]But you never know.
[4:29:10]Yeah.
[4:29:12]Well, one of the things
[4:29:14]when we concluded the deposition yesterday
[4:29:17]we asked Secretary Clinton
[4:29:20]for her advice
[4:29:21]moving forward in the investigation
[4:29:22]and with respect to a statement
[4:29:25]she said yesterday
[4:29:26]it was something that we've done
[4:29:27]on the committee
[4:29:28]that the majority has done
[4:29:29]on the committee in the past.
[4:29:31]We followed the money
[4:29:32]we've subpoenaed bank records
[4:29:34]we've subpoenaed
[4:29:35]suspicious activity reports
[4:29:36]from Treasury.
[4:29:37]Those were some of the things
[4:29:38]Ms. Clinton suggested.
[4:29:40]And in order to do that
[4:29:43]obviously we have to subpoena banks
[4:29:45]specific banks for specific accounts.
[4:29:48]Do you ever recall
[4:29:49]in the conversations you had
[4:29:51]with Mr. Epstein
[4:29:53]any particular bank
[4:29:54]that he was affiliated with
[4:29:56]or any particular big banks that maybe
[4:29:59]he had deals going?
[4:30:02]No.
[4:30:03]You never asked me about that.
[4:30:10]And with that
[4:30:10]we can go off the record.
[4:30:23]We can go back on the record.
[4:30:26]President, I just wanted to clarify
[4:30:28]one thing from the previous round
[4:30:30]our understanding of your testimony today
[4:30:32]is that with respect to the dinner
[4:30:35]with Ms. Maxwell in Los Angeles
[4:30:37]you were not actually sure
[4:30:39]whether or not that dinner occurred.
[4:30:42]That's correct.
[4:30:43]Is that correct?
[4:30:44]That is correct.
[4:30:45]Thank you.
[4:30:47]As we start to close
[4:30:48]is there anything you would like to add
[4:30:50]or clarify about what you've said here today?
[4:30:54]Okay.
[4:30:55]You go.
[4:30:57]I think we're fine.
[4:31:02]I'm struggling
[4:31:06]because it's hard to know
[4:31:07]exactly what I knew when I knew it
[4:31:09]given what I've learned since.
[4:31:13]It's become a kind of a compelling challenge
[4:31:17]but I've tried to tell you what I knew then
[4:31:20]and when you ask what I think now
[4:31:25]I think you have, all of you, Mr. Chairman
[4:31:31]you've had a chronologically challenging thing.
[4:31:38]You've got all the stuff that happened
[4:31:40]with Jeffrey Epstein
[4:31:41]some of it in regard to President Trump
[4:31:43]going back to the late 90s
[4:31:46]and that's a long time ago
[4:31:48]and then what we learned later.
[4:31:51]It's been difficult
[4:31:53]but I have enjoyed it.
[4:31:56]You've been very respectful to me
[4:31:59]and given me a chance to talk to you.
[4:32:01]We thank you for your time.
[4:32:02]I wish you well.
[4:32:04]I still will say
[4:32:06]if you can think of some things to do
[4:32:09]that will reduce the incidence
[4:32:12]of trafficking in America
[4:32:17]and it should be possible for us
[4:32:23]to virtually eliminate underage.
[4:32:26]It should be.
[4:32:30]We've just got to figure out
[4:32:31]what kind of technology we need
[4:32:33]and what kind of policies.
[4:32:35]So thank you.
[4:32:38]And the answers that you've provided today
[4:32:41]are to the best of your recollection.
[4:32:42]Is that correct?
[4:32:44]Yeah, the answers I provided today
[4:32:46]are what I believe at the time
[4:32:50]and what I think within my heart
[4:32:55]including about previous testimony.
[4:32:58]Great, thank you.
[4:32:59]Unless there's anything else
[4:33:00]you would like to share
[4:33:01]we can go off the record.