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[0:12]and welcome to law and crime now everybody i'm jesse weber and thanks for joining us we're going to start with the arrest of tyrese haspel this is the man who's been charged with second-degree murder for allegedly
[0:23]brutally killing his boss tech ceo fahim saleh who was found dismembered in his manhattan apartment you've probably heard about this story now there is a lot to talk about in this
[0:34]case but where we're going to start is with the statements from the nypd chair excuse me the nypd chief of detectives rodney harrison who spoke about and
[0:45]provided more details on the arrest of haspel at approximately 8 45 this morning 21 year old tyrese
[0:54]haspel h a s was taken into custody in the lobby of 172
[1:04]crosby street by members of the new york new jersey regional fugitive task force and transported to the seventh precinct
[1:13]for arrest processing on tuesday july 14th mr fahim sally's cousin discovered his dismembered
[1:24]body in the living room of his apartment with his head arms and legs amputated upon further investigation it was
[1:34]revealed that on monday july 13th at approximately 1 45 p.m
[1:41]mr sally was assaulted by mr haskell with what appears to be a conductive energy
[1:50]weapon better known as a taser while exiting an elevator into his apartment if i could just explain that real
[1:58]quickly the way this building is set up when you go up in the elevator it takes you right to your right to your apartment and not into a hallway yeah that's what we're dealing with here
[2:10]now haspel was arraigned he's pled not guilty a lot to talk about i want to bring in my panel right now i'm joined by forensic psychiatrist dr zev cohen and long crime
[2:20]legal analyst terry austin it's great to have you both here terry let's start with the defense so he's pled not guilty and his lawyers have issued a statement they said we urge the public to keep an open mind
[2:32]and there is much more to this narrative than the accusations and arrests by the police and a charge by the district attorney how do you interpret that statement is it do you interpret it as hey we have more information about
[2:44]what's going here or he can't be tried in the court of public opinion we just have to see if the prosecution makes their case how do you view that statement well you know
[2:55]obviously he is innocent until proven guilty but i can't imagine that they have more here when we know already that there is at least one video showing hassle
[3:07]following the victim and so i'm not sure what other explanation could exist there is no excuse for tasing someone stabbing him five or six times
[3:17]and then dismembering the body so it remains to be seen what more they have to say what not just the surveillance footage of the actual moment of the tasing they
[3:28]also apparently have surveillance footage of him using solay's credit card after his death uh evidence of him buying supplies to cultivally cut up the body
[3:38]and so we see a very strong case here at this point now dr cohen i want to turn it over to you because i've heard a lot of different cases and unfortunately here on long crime we've covered dismemberments
[3:50]can you break it down to us whether it was haspel or someone else what goes into the mentality what goes into the mindset of someone
[3:59]to have the will to kill someone come back to the body and then dismember a human body literally chop it up
[4:09]so there can be a number of reasons for it i think that uh you know in general when we think of dismemberment we think that that does uh
[4:18]speak to premeditation or towards planning and so it tends to not be so good for the defendant but um you know you could also imagine a situation where someone
[4:29]an extreme emotional disturbance which is the kind of defense which would reduce the murder doctor i'm sorry to interrupt you broke up a little there and i want to make sure our viewers get that can you repeat what you just said uh you were going into a little bit
[4:40]about how the makeup of someone who can do something like this yeah so i was saying you know usually dismemberment points towards something like premeditation or planning
[4:51]somebody trying to cover their tracks and that tends to not be very good for the defendant's legal case but dismemberment could also be seen in something like a crime of passion where someone could
[5:02]do it in a frenzy and then it could point to what's called extreme emotional disturbance which is a defense strategy a psychological defense strategy which would reduce a murder
[5:14]charge to a manslaughter charge so you know there are definitely been cases like that where somebody has become so frenzied when they've been attacking someone that they've lost control and really
[5:25]dismembered the body so it can point to a couple different scenarios but it comes down to the fundamental question why did this happen why would someone have done this to this man
[5:36]and that was sort of addressed i mean the i should note investigators are keeping some details pretty close here but this was discussed by rodney harrison a little bit during
[5:47]this press conference due to the active and ongoing investigation i will not get into the actual cause of death the extensive investigation led by the
[5:58]seventh prison detective squad manhattan south homicide identified the perpetrator in less than three days and revealed that mr haspel
[6:09]was mr salis executive assistant and handled his finances and personal matters it is also believed that he owed the
[6:19]victim a significant amount of money now that part i want to talk about terry the motive here that apparently haspel owed solay money that if you read the reports
[6:30]he actually stole money from him and this was to be forgiven by this uh by the ceo who actually said he fired him but was going to allow
[6:41]him possibly to pay off the money so as we're trying to understand what would lead somebody to do this what would lead somebody to dress it all black and engage in this
[6:50]pre-planned attack the motive here i find interesting your thoughts yeah i agree jesse i think that if in fact
[6:59]the victim was trying to give hassle some leeway here that he didn't have to pay the money back that he could do it slowly and installment and he didn't
[7:10]file a report and i think that's important you would have to think why then is hassle still trying to you know get away with murder here
[7:19]and kill his boss it really does make the motive seem very selfish you know very focused on the fact that he just didn't want to pay the money back and
[7:30]i guess we could say that the motive here is the money because he's being very greedy and in fact he's not really taking into consideration the fact that
[7:40]saleh his boss is giving him all of this you know leeway so it's a horrible crime and terry just to give our viewers an understanding they're saying probably why
[7:52]second-degree murder this seemed like a pre-planned attack why not first-degree murder but here in new york things are a little different right exactly it's very limited when you can get first degree here in new york
[8:03]either you're you know accused of killing a police officer or you're serving a life sentence there are also some felony murders that can be associated with both first and second degree murder frankly but most intentional murders
[8:15]in new york are second-degree murder so it's a little different from most other states dr cohen let's fast forward a little bit let's say this does go to a trial let's say he is the man who's ultimately
[8:26]uh tried for this heinous attack everybody might be looking this is this and say hey look a guy chopped up the body of another person he must be
[8:36]insane does he fit within that category of insanity based upon what you've seen i think that his attorneys would would be remiss if they did not
[8:48]investigate that possibility uh unfortunately uh they're considered so again i just want to reiterate a
[8:59]little bit we're talking about insanity my understanding is a pretty high burden here and i believe the burden is to establish ultimately that he could not appreciate the consequences of what he was doing or
[9:09]establish what he knew was wrong that's my understanding please correct me if i'm wrong and based upon the details uh alleged by the investigators do you think at this point it could be a viable
[9:20]defense um i think that the attorneys would definitely be remiss if they didn't investigate that possibility on behalf of their client what they're going to need to show
[9:31]though is more than the behavior itself because the behavior itself is ambiguous it could also be interpreted and no doubt would be brought forward by the prosecution as evidence of premeditation
[9:43]planning and a rational actor when you see someone for example potentially dismembering a body so that they can cover up their tracks that can be very devastating
[9:54]yeah and terry look i mean this the evidence against haspel as i said is quite strong including him allegedly leaving the apartment when he heard the cousin
[10:05]coming up and him buying the supplies but one of the first things that investigators tried to think about is was saleh killed by an international component because he had these international ties
[10:16]and there was a suggestion that this looked like a professional hit now that's strange because we have haspel who has no criminal record here and there was another theory put forward that
[10:28]did he try to make it look like a professional hit to cast away any suspicious suspicion on him your thoughts on that well i definitely think that this was a
[10:39]premeditated murder the fact that he purchased all of these products before he actually went in to clean up etc and you know he had a taser so he knew he wanted to
[10:50]make sure the victim wasn't able to respond but i do think the fact that he dressed in all black meant that he was trying to cover who he was
[10:59]and there was at least one report that said before sally died he kind of looked at the defendant as though he recognized
[11:09]him as if to say what are you doing here and so it could very well be that he was trying to mask his identity and make it look as though someone else maybe
[11:20]an international hit was occurring but clearly he didn't clean his tracks too well because he was arrested and charged in case we will be following when we come back
[11:30]after our break we're going to focus on another case we've been following you might have heard of it elaine maxwell
[11:35]lot to talk about there stay tuned [Applause]
[11:48]welcome back everybody time to talk about elaine maxwell this is jeffrey epstein's uh alleged accomplice or alleged criminal accomplice here and as you know she's been hit with multiple felonies
[11:59]regarding the enticement recruitment and transportation of minors for sex abuse and then lying about it and there's a lot we keep talking about in particularly the fact that there have
[12:10]been reactions and new developments in light of a judge denying her bail i want to start right now with virginia robert struffrey who actually is one of epstein's
[12:21]accusers she spoke with a cbs this morning talked a little bit about what we should know about galen maxwell's role in all of this
[12:32]i said why are you having all these girls come in and sleep with your boyfriend and she was like so i don't have to do
[12:43]it all the time you know so she made like a joke out of it why do you think she did it she did it to keep jeffrey happy for sure um she did it because she loves
[12:55]the control over people jeffrey was a sick pedophile but she was the mastermind
[13:05]dr cohen i want to start with you here this aspect of control i find fascinating you heard her speak about it that's her opinion what is your opinion
[13:14]if the accusations if the charges if all this is true against maxwell and her doing this to help or make jeffrey epstein happy that and that
[13:25]aspect of control what's your theory on it well i think that we can look at the data to help us understand and you know when you
[13:34]look at data on female sex offenders you certainly see that a large number of them are co-offending with a man and it does tend to be the case that when women
[13:45]co-offend in terms of sexual offenses with a male partner they are tending to follow the proclivities of that partner for it so for example heterosexual women
[13:56]who are co-offending with a heterosexual male tend to tend to victimize other women um so i think that you know obviously i don't know uh
[14:07]whether gillian maxwell is guilty of what she's accused but the accusations that are put forth do fit a pattern of what we know about
[14:16]female co-offenders with men and so typically it's theorized that those women are trying to please the men because they are following that's just it's pretty remarkable to
[14:30]think about that uh again that aspect of control here and that aspect of this is what you talk about these co-offenders uh really that everybody's confused why was she doing
[14:40]this for jeffrey epstein so that's a big question but why here now terry let me turn it to you because during this bail hearing big revelation that gallane maxwell is purportedly
[14:51]married she has the secret husband and that she hasn't revealed the identity of this husband to investigators so my question to you is twofold one
[15:01]why would she not reveal the identity of this husband and two how could this husband ultimately play into her legal case
[15:11]well i think she didn't reveal the identity because she's either protecting him or she doesn't want him to testify against her and you know in fact he has the option of
[15:23]whether or not because there is obviously a spousal immunity if in fact they were married and that's one thing they'd have to establish
[15:32]but he could very well have information that she doesn't want to have revealed that he could testify about so i think she did not mention him
[15:42]because she doesn't want him to be exposed and in fact as far as i'm concerned it shows that she has this you know propensity to lie and in fact i think the judge made the
[15:54]right decision here to not grant her bail but if you have someone who also knows about her finances maybe shares bank accounts with her could that be utilized by prosecutors in
[16:05]any way what are the rules there because i know that again her finances have come under question and investigation absolutely and and you always follow the money and
[16:15]if the authorities can do that with or without her purported spouse they will absolutely do it and if they contact him if they find out the identity
[16:26]and they ask him questions you know through some sort of investigation they could very well find more information about the finances as you recall during the bail hearing finances
[16:36]was a huge part of the hearing itself do you think terry there could be a situation when and we talk about possible defenses here we can talk about plea deals we've
[16:47]talked about that a lot but if we're talking about manipulation where she could put the blame on epstein and say that she was coerced into doing all this that she was trying to help him she was
[16:58]trying to please him is that something from a legal point of view might be her best defense she might have real trouble getting out of the perjury charges those are more straightforward simpler charges to prove
[17:08]but if we're talking about a conspiracy charge a transportation charge her role i mean what are actual legal defenses here besides the fact of her saying prosecution can't prove the case or i didn't do it
[17:20]yeah i mean i think the fact that they can charge her with conspiracy she's really in a difficult position because here they're going to have to show that she has some
[17:31]you know connection to the crime and they have all of that information they know she traveled with him she can claim that she didn't know what he was doing and she wasn't involved but i think they have
[17:43]enough circumstantial information to say that she was part and parcel and frankly they have all of these witnesses who are saying that she was the one who identified
[17:54]the girl and who brought these women who were you know underage to epstein so she is definitely part and parcel of it and it's going to be difficult i think for her to defend
[18:04]the case i'd like to move on from one high-profile female defendant to another let's go to colorado for leticia stock now this is the colorado woman
[18:16]who is accused of killing her 11 year old stepson gannon very high profile case here and it has been announced that the court has agreed to do to have it be conducted a mental
[18:27]health competency evaluation of this mother or of the stepmother i should say and she's going to be sent to a state hospital to have this mental health evaluation completed now i want to start
[18:38]with this case by beginning when stock was arrested and gannon's mother spoke out in a press conference just listened to this listen to the pain in her voice
[18:50]talking about this development today i got the worst news and the best news obviously we know what the worst news is
[19:01]but the best news is that justice will be served and i'll make sure that justice is served because my boy did not deserve any of this that has happened to him
[19:11]so i urge media one more time just to hold off on questions until we know that this person the stepmom that i even trusted
[19:23]that she will pay a hundred percent for this heinous thing she done all right dr call what are mental health evaluators
[19:34]looking for when they're determining the issue of competency to stand trial so the issue of competency to stand trial is really
[19:43]looking at the person's mental state now so it really doesn't look back to the crime we're not asking what was her mental state at the time of the offense
[19:54]we're asking right now in the present does she understand the charges against her does she understand dr cohen we keep breaking up bad
[20:06]connection we live in the pandemic world right now i'm gonna come back to you in a minute maybe we can get that straightened out uh terry let's go to the legal point of view here so the idea of is she competent to stand trial i know that's a separate issue
[20:18]in terms of insanity or anything like that what are some of the uh options that could happen here you know if she's determined to be incompetent if she can't stand trial does that mean
[20:29]that she stays in jail or a state facility state hospital until she's eventually competent to stand trial how would this play out that's exactly right so if they are
[20:40]deemed not to be competent they get put into a mental health facility until such time that they are deemed competent which means as the doctor was saying that they understand the charges against them so
[20:52]they can be charged they could be in prison they can even be indicted but the trial cannot go forward unless they understand those charges that have been brought against them and that can last for an indefinite
[21:04]amount of time there has been case law that says until they are competent and if they are not found competent then they can stay in jail for quite some time
[21:15]uh and let's not forget when we try to understand why is this become an issue not only think about what she's accused of here because there's probable cause to believe that ganon was killed in his room there was
[21:25]blood all over the place and she's also accused of trying to escape prison so you get a sense of the defendant we're talking about here terry question for you the prosecution
[21:35]had tried to get a hold of i believe her uh or had tried to get subpoenas from the judge for her mental health records back in the day does that signify you
[21:46]and this was denied does that signify to you that the prosecution is saying i want to see what her mental health was back in the day because maybe they're just faking it now maybe she's just faking it
[21:57]now do you get that sense yes and i also think that the prosecution wants to know what they have to deal with like the doctor said the competency is to determine
[22:08]where her status is now but these records would determine what her status was at least her mental health while the trial or while the crime was being conducted so i think the prosecution
[22:20]looking for these records is going to want to see what they have that they will be dealing with that trial what the defense might be trying to propose at trial so yeah i
[22:30]think they're just getting ready and in terms of terry we've covered a number of cases where a caregiver perhaps a parent a babysitter is charged
[22:41]and ultimately convicted for what happens to the child do you think this is a strong case i do and it's horrible you saw what the mother was saying there this victim was
[22:53]11 years old you put the child in the custody of an adult that the child is trusting so i think it's a horrible case i think that if they have enough evidence
[23:04]hopefully justice will be done she said there that it's a good day and a bad day a bad day because obviously her son is not coming home a good day because at least they have someone that they can
[23:15]point the finger to and hopefully they'll get a conviction if the evidence shows that yeah well it's uh we'll see what happens because september 8th is for the next court date to determine the judge will see
[23:26]what are the competency results and how do we move forward uh dr cohen i understand we have to sign you off and i appreciate you coming on i wish you had a better connection maybe next time we'll take a break when we come back a
[23:37]lot more stories for you
[23:51]welcome back let's talk about the ahmad arbory shooting out of atlanta georgia because we're still breaking down that huge hearing for the defendants i should really say it was a hearing mostly focused on
[24:02]william bryant and he didn't have a great day not only was the motion for bale denied so he's currently in jail but his other motions made by his attorney all
[24:13]failed including a motion to try to have the current d.a removed from the case but there's a lot to break down but a lot that people are talking about are is this moment
[24:25]right here take a listen as indicted he's facing not just 18 months that speculatively he might be held upon prior to trial by my
[24:36]calculation you see spacing potentially life without the possibility of parole plus at least 27 and a half years that's a significant amount of time and the most serious charge that could
[24:47]be levied against the defendant in the state of georgia there are texts to support the doj's investigation i've revealed this to mr golf but he knows that we talked about it on the phone
[24:58]i can confirm as of yesterday that the gbi has opened an additional parallel investigation into sex crimes all right now that sex crimes investigation was confirmed by the gbi
[25:09]the georgia bureau of investigation who else and who better to talk about this than tony thomas wsb tv anchor out of georgia who is at that hearing tony great to have you here
[25:20]on long crime now so i want to ask you a two-part question here a what can you tell us if anything about this sex crimes investigation into william bryan
[25:30]and number two what was it like to be in that hearing it was very interesting because they dropped that bombshell pretty uh pretty late into the day in all this
[25:41]hearing we know that sex alleged sex crime investigation first popped on to the authorities in camden county which is a small county just south of brunswick where this is
[25:52]going on right on the florida georgia line it happened on thursday it was immediately referred to the gbi this hearing held the very next day
[26:02]everything going through the gbi the gbi not discussing anything else involved in this except to say they are conducting a quote parallel investigation
[26:13]into roddy bryan and this potential sex crimes case is there evidence that we don't know about yet i mean
[26:22]my understanding is these charges that were brought against brian came after the search of the mcmichael's residence and i'm curious from your perspective
[26:33]what do we not know yet what is it that we're looking for what evidence do you believe maybe was gathered or what evidence could we try to surmise might have been gathered
[26:44]from a search i mean from your point of view what do we not know yet yeah that's a good question and i'm not sure exactly what they found
[26:54]in that search one other thing though we do know is the only person who's held lengthy discussions interview sessions
[27:05]with the gbi and the detectives is william roddy bryant what he said in those interviews they may have led them to do this we're not sure but it was uh
[27:16]fairly quickly after they did those search warrants on the mcmichael's home and also they also looked around brian's home as well which is just five
[27:27]or six doors down that they ultimately went and arrested brian as well and the status of the hate crime charges or any federal charges i know that was
[27:38]brought up during the hearing as well any insight on that still ongoing no word on when that might end we do know he's now
[27:48]in a suspect or being investigated in three different cases this one in brunswick on the murder case where he faces nine different charges the sex crimes investigation that's
[28:00]underway by the gba and the county just south and then he said that potential federal hate crime uh situation uh technically being investigated by the southern district of
[28:12]georgia no late update on when that may wrap up and if there will be actual charges filed well we talked about it being a tough day for william bryan it was also not a
[28:23]great day for his attorney kevin goff i mean listen to the judge here just kind of getting frustrated at goff for trying to seemingly argue his entire case during a hearing
[28:34]when that's not called for take a look trying your case today we've already had a seven hour preliminary hearing i've read that transcript
[28:43]i'm fully aware of that evidence so we're not going back over all of the preliminary hearing matters
[28:54]as well as retrying the case in the context of a bond hearing if you've got issues specific to bonds then so be it i'm aware of the authority but the authority isn't try your case
[29:05]on the day of the bond and then just kind of see how the chips lie that's not what we're going to do here today so if there's evidence that you wish to present there's an objection to now is an opportunity for
[29:15]the two of you to talk about it there's no stipulations reached we'll see what the status of that conversation is and what we have to hear
[29:24]today and i'd like to get into the bond here so we're going to take a few minute recess so tony you had a better seat to this than i did but i sensed this kind of
[29:36]frustration on the part of the judge and i was curious from what you've seen so far what can you glean from the defense tactics the defense
[29:46]strategies of these defense attorneys particularly kevin gough well it's kind of interesting because for the mcmichaels their attorneys have
[29:57]barely filed anything they've been relatively quiet showing up when they needed to kevin goff on the other hand the local attorney here for ronnie bryan has been very active
[30:08]following motion after motion after motion and you're right it did get on the nerve of the judge kevin goff's intent going into that hearing was
[30:19]basically to get any information he could out of that hearing because he knows with covert 19 and everything else going on it could be months or longer before they get back in court at one point
[30:30]earlier in the week he even had a private investigator trying to serve a um appearance notice on the attorney general of the state of georgia to appear at that friday hearing
[30:42]because you want to question him about how they went through the different district attorneys that recused themselves and got to the current appointed district attorney from cobb county
[30:52]up in the atlanta area he was trying to pull out all the cards he could introduce get any evidence he could the videos the surveillance videos everything he wanted to try to present
[31:03]at that uh hearing a bond hearing and the judge was kind of right he was trying to put the whole trial as much as he could his case out there
[31:13]right in that one bond hearing terry is that strange is that strange uh lawyer tactics at this point of the case well what's strange about it jesse is
[31:24]the fact that this is apparently the attorney for the individual who theoretically had the least to do with this crime yes he cornered ahmad aubry with the car but
[31:36]initially their claim was he wasn't really involved and so for goff the attorney to make all of these motions three on that day and he apparently filed others that they didn't get a chance he was
[31:46]objecting to the math he's making this a case where he is showcasing his legal skills and i think he needs to think twice about is he
[31:56]helping his own client and maybe he should be sitting back a little bit well we heard from several voices during this hearing including ahmad arbury's mother who
[32:07]petitioned the court to deny bail which as we said they ultimately did here's what she had to say i am
[32:16]asking this court to say no he cannot go home he did not allow my son to go home
[32:25]my son ran away he ran he ran my son actually went around
[32:34]him and my son actually ran for his life but william did not allow my son to return home so i stand before you as the mother of
[32:48]the mind asking this court to do not to just to give mr brian the same energy that he gave my son there is not enough evidence to
[33:01]establish this unrepented man and in being a danger to this community
[33:10]he lived just feet from where my son was murdered i lived just feet just miles away from where my son was murdered
[33:22]i'm actually scared judge to stay inside of my home i've actually put my house up for sale now tony this is a case that's being followed by everyone
[33:32]across the nation but you're there and i'm curious if you walk us through what that feeling is like in the community because we almost got a sense of it in the courtroom
[33:42]when kevin goff tried to object to certain masks being worn as their being called political statements and that just kind of gave a flavor there of there are a lot of different
[33:53]factors in this case so what is it like in the community what is it like with being around this and being a part of an area that everybody's watching
[34:05]well it's something this town of about 16 000 um that's not in a major media market at all uh is definitely not used to that uh mask you're talking about it was
[34:16]worn apparently in the courtroom i did not personally see it by uh lee merritt the attorney for aubry's mom there that you just heard his mask was a george floyd had some
[34:28]comment about the george floyd case on it not directly related to this case but that's what came up in uh open court the city of brunswick itself you kind of
[34:38]hear some i run with a mod um posters and stuff you see them around town but it's when you actually get over into this neighborhood where this happened did he really steal a sense
[34:50]of uh i don't know if you call it frustration but uh worry and um some tension and the arbories live just across a state highway a four-lane highway in
[35:01]another subdivision across the street so you could imagine her worry if anybody were to get out on bond they'd be less than a mile from her
[35:10]house where she currently lives so something you could explain something to me we hear a possible defense particularly from kevin gough of this citizen's arrest that the mcmichaels
[35:21]were not doing anything illegal they were engaging in their lawful right under georgia law to apprehend someone that they believed there was probable cause to arrest now this concept of the
[35:32]citizens arrest how is it being viewed in your area is it something that you know when we first heard about people i'm surprised that's even talked about or is that something in the
[35:43]community maybe where uh arbory was killed where that's a common understanding i mean how is that idea the citizens arrest viewed uh it's controversial now for sure i
[35:54]don't think a lot of people had heard about that law until this uh call came about and in fact uh the debate over whether there should be a citizen's arrest law or whether it should be a
[36:05]change in subway is uh before hearings right now in the georgia legislature up in atlanta
[36:14]whether this law allows somebody if you see a felony being committed you have the right to stop and detain somebody for police
[36:24]opponents say there's enough police force now out and about in the communities you don't need that law as much anymore it was written many many years ago when there weren't
[36:36]police forces in every community it is a hot topic for debate statewide now and uh whether it was used legally or not in this case
[36:45]a very hot topic as well and you heard kevin goff say because the mcmichaels didn't do anything wrong then my client didn't do anything wrong it was a memorandum
[36:56]play uh prepared in anticipation of this hearing but uh it gives a sense of his defense strategy tony thomas thank you so much appreciate your insight we'll take a break when we come back
[37:06]another important and high-profile police-related killing that we are going to be talking about here ray shard brooks we'll be
[37:14]right back [Applause]
[37:25]welcome back everybody let's talk about rayshard brooks this is the man out of atlanta who was killed outside of a wendy's by police after this physical alter altercation with officers
[37:36]turned bad let's specifically talk about d.a paul howard who filed the charges and spearheaded the case against former officer garrett rolfe
[37:46]as well as officer devin brosnan well howard is currently being investigated by the gbi the georgia bureau of investigation and a deal that he purportedly helped to orchestrate
[37:58]is raising a lot of questions to begin you want to hear who d.a paul howard does is this was him during the press conference announcing the charges once mr brooks
[38:10]was shot there is an atlanta policy that requires that the officers have to provide
[38:18]timely medical attention to mr brooks already anyone who is injured but after mr brooks was shot for some period of
[38:27]two minutes and 12 seconds there was no medical attention applied to mr brooks but
[38:38]when we examined the videotape and in our discussions with witnesses what we discovered is during the two minutes and 12 seconds
[38:49]that officer roth actually kicked mr brooks while he laid on the ground while he was there fighting for his life
[38:59]secondly from the videotape we were able to see that the other officer officer brosnan actually stood on mr brooks's shoulders
[39:11]while he was there struggling for his life we were able to conclude that based on the way
[39:20]that these officers conducted themselves while mr brooks was lying there that the demeanor of the officers immediately after the shooting
[39:31]did not reflect any fear or danger of mr brooks but their actions really reflected
[39:41]other kinds of emotions all right terry now howard is the top of this he's spearheading this case there's a lot riding on him and yet he's under investigation let's start with this
[39:53]the subpoenas apparently he issued in this case were done without a grand jury that's my understanding correct me if i'm wrong is that a problem and is it such a
[40:03]problem that this might derail the case against brosnan and rolf you know jesse of all of the issues that he's facing i think this
[40:13]is the least problematic yes you know usually the subpoena is going to be issued when there is a grand jury but he could have had enough probable cause to go ahead
[40:24]and issue the subpoena so i think if in fact there was some evidence he has all of these videos he can justify why he needed this subpoena i think the
[40:35]other issues he's being investigated for are more problematic than this particularly before we even get into the other issues and i do want to get into them he says this was just a mistake this was
[40:46]a mistake by somebody who worked in his office about whether to issue the subpoenas without the grand jury and not going to happen again but there has been an analysis done where some say
[40:56]that he may have engaged in criminal behavior here if he made any false statement here is that do you believe that that's a viable claim
[41:07]if he made false statements yes absolutely it's a viable claim the way i look at this is if in hindsight no how far you know no harm no foul then
[41:17]he should be okay if in fact he made truthful statements if in fact he would have gotten a subpoena in any event if in fact he's basing this on the evidence that he had at the time i think
[41:28]he will come out of this particular issue on top but you know if he made false statements that could very well be a big issue for him because
[41:39]really people are looking at this as a sign that he was rushing to bring charges against the officers that's the main criticism of howard bringing these charges because the gbi
[41:50]hadn't even finished their investigation so that's the main criticism now we talked you mentioned the other issues let's get into them so there's this other issue and i'll actually tie them together
[42:00]one that he allegedly took grant money to give himself a higher salary to upload supplement his income and two and this one's very interesting
[42:11]that he apparently worked out a deal allegedly to have these convicted educators they were convicted in this cheating scandal to make sure that they don't go to prison and he did this
[42:22]allegedly as a way to gain the support of a popular lawyer because his election is coming up soon these two claims the taking of the money or at least
[42:32]using the money in an improper way and working out this deal for his own reelection purposes again not directly tied to the rachard brooks case
[42:42]but if this becomes too big of an issue could it affect whether he still stays on it and what ultimately happens here well it could not only affect the case
[42:54]he could be taken off the case but it could affect his career funneling money and commingling funds is a huge issue and you know as a prosecutor
[43:05]he knows better than that and if in fact he took several hundred thousand dollars funneled it into his own bank account you know he could be brought up for charges for that he certainly
[43:15]could have some issues as far as the bar of georgia is concerned so that's a problem and the fact that you know there was this conviction
[43:25]of this scandalous event with all of these educators and he gave them a light deal in exchange for an endorsement of
[43:36]one of them that too could be a very big issue because it's a conflict of interest and he has to say above that he has to show
[43:46]the people of georgia that he is fair unbiased and that he's bringing charges on behalf of not just this case but every case without being unduly so those are
[43:57]problems he has to be beyond reproach especially when you're dealing with a case that's so important again as we say with most of the cases we will cover we'll see what happens here but with the
[44:08]d.a coming under investigation everybody's going to be watching for the next steps terry austin i appreciate you coming on and breaking down all these important cases with me a pleasure as always
[44:19]everybody out there thank you for joining us tonight we will be back later in the week covering the other most important cases
[44:26]facing the nation we'll be back