[0:00]Hello and welcome to the world this week with me Gavin Lee analyzing the biggest global events of the past seven days alongside a panel of distinguished international correspondents. And this week we'll be focusing on the Epstein
[0:11]files. In a week where global headlines have been dominated daily by the fallout from what the Trump administration calls the final release of files compelled to act by US law to make public
[0:23]unclassified records related to Jeffrey Epstein in order to bring full transparency into the Epstein's dark world of child sex abuse and trafficking. An unprecedented 3 million pages of files, hundreds of thousands of
[0:34]videos and images finally disclosed a month after the government deadline. The late publication, ostensibly because of redactions needed for the victim's protection. The survivors groups who've been fighting for transparency and
[0:45]justice for years said the redactions are in all the wrong places. This is Annie Farmer who was sexually abused by Epstein and gave key testimony in the conviction of Gileain Maxwell.
[0:56]There's so much lip service from this administration about protecting victims. But when you know there's been 40 images, nude images of potentially girls and young women that have been included
[1:07]completely unredacted and you see entire lists of victims um that are completely unredacted. It's hard to believe this was anything other than intent un that it was intentional.
[1:18]>> It's been a week of remarkably similar statements being issued from a list of the rich, the famous, and the powerful who appear to have been less transparent about the extent of their dealings with a child sex offender. Tech billionaire Bill Gates, the crown prince of Norway,
[1:30]Princess Meta Marit, and the author and CNN analyst Peter Atia spoke of regret, remorse, and naivity in their association. There are also questions of judgment, though they're not accused of
[1:40]any illegality for Richard Branson, Elon Musk, Nam Chomsky, Howard Lutnik, and President Trump, who's attempting to draw an issue to a close. >> I think it's time [music] now for the
[1:52]country to maybe get onto something else. >> Would you say people don't have a justice? Mr. President, >> something that people care about. Yeah. What What do you say? Go ahead. >> What would you What would you say to the survivors who feel
[2:03]>> You are the worst reporter. No wonder C CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't
[2:14]think I've ever seen a smile in your face. >> You know why you know why you're not smiling? Cuz you know you're not telling the truth. The unearthing of the files has caused serious ramifications in the UK this week with headlines speaking of
[2:25]the princes of darkness referring to longtime Labour peer Peter Mandlesson the ex British ambassador to the US and Andrew Mountbatten Windsor the ex- prince who's facing his own fresh allegations of sex crimes now being
[2:37]assessed by police. He denies any wrongdoing. He's increasingly isolated seen moving out of Royal Lodge before midnight on Monday. Peter Mandlesson has been stripped of his knighthood, forced to leave the Labour Party, and now faces
[2:47]a criminal investigation into alleged sending of confidential government information to Epstein, swapping its claimed information for money and influence. He denies. The fallout is also reaching the man who appointed him,
[2:58]Ambassador uh the ambassador to the US, Prime Minister Kama. This man who's now at risk of losing his job. I am sorry.
[3:10]Sorry for what was done to you. Sorry that so many people with power failed you. Sorry for having believed
[3:20]Mandlesson's lies and appointed him. Elsewhere, while the threat of [music] US intervention in Iran appears to have diminished slightly with direct talks between the US and Iranian officials in
[3:30]Aman. And it's been another week of peace talks for Ukraine as well and ever shifting locations. This week the hosts were the UAE brokered by the US with Russian Ukrainian delegations. Little progress reported, but Russia's
[3:42]unrelenting demands for extra territory the sticking point. But another prisoner exchange was agreed and completed. As the fourth anniversary of the war approaches, President Zalinsky acknowledged the human cost, telling
[3:52]French TV 55,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died. The French president told reporters [music] preparations were being made to restore direct communication between Europe and the
[4:01]Kremlin. >> It is important the Europeans restore their own channels of discussion. This is currently being prepared from a technical point of view. >> Do you think that would be useful? >> I think it would be useful, but I don't
[4:13]think Russia is currently willing to conclude a peace agreement in the coming days or weeks. >> It is time to meet this week's panel. I'm delighted to be joined in the studio this week by Anne Bagarie, longtime
[4:24]friend of the program, independent journalist, consultant. Great to have you back with us, An. >> Let me ask about your start to the new year. Where have you been? What have you been working on? Well, I've been home in
[4:34]Paris and I've been doing quite a bit on Iran. Um, doing some television commentary, looking into some of my own writing. The the whole idea of what's
[4:44]happening there and America's role in it, I think it's kind of a crucible of what the Trump administration says it wants to do and what in the end it will be able to do. It's it's pretty
[4:55]fascinating all the way around. It also brings back and I'm old enough to remember uh watching all of these live on intel on television uh the hostage crisis in 1979 1980 when the US embassy
[5:06]was taken and when famously from the movie Argo six of those ambass embassy workers uh escaped to the Canadian consil's office Canadian ambassador's office and were taken out by the CIA. So
[5:17]the idea now that we've got the Americans, the Canadians, the CIA, and the Iranians again trying to figure out a problem in a very problematic area, um, history repeats itself and I'm
[5:29]fascinated to see that. >> And another another day where we appear to be back from the brink, at least at the result of these talks. Let me ask you, you talked about years in the business, former senior editor of the
[5:40]International Herald Tribune, New York Times style magazine as well. I want to ask you about another big development in our world of journalism, which is hundreds of jobs going at the Washington
[5:49]Post. Let me quote to you. A strategic reset according to executive editor Matt Murray, who says they are reinventing the paper for a new era. Oh god, it's I'm going to try not very hard not to
[6:01]cry because The Post is a it is such a beacon in in the world of journal of American journalism. I mean, so many and
[6:11]and the piece that the um Associated Press wrote about these latest layoffs at at the Post almost read like an obituary talking about the the brilliant
[6:21]journalists who've worked there, the stories that were broken, the brilliant writing that was in its pages. It all seems like it's part of the past now. Um, just to hear Matt Murray say he's
[6:31]going to reinvent the paper. Um, it's that that rings it rings very false because what they've said in the past is that the t the Post needed to think
[6:42]about uh other ways of delivering its journalism, had a better website to bring more people in and it just hasn't happened. I think the person who said it best really of what's going on this week is um is Marty Baron who was the
[6:54]executive editor of the the Washington Post right when Jeff Bezos bought the paper. So, he has a long history with this owner. And he he goes through in a
[7:03]social media post all of the bad decisions that Bezos and his team have made since the second Trump administration. And he finishes by saying, "This is a case study in near
[7:14]instant self-inflicted brand destruction." When the I hope the Washington Post can come back from this, I think it's probably going to take a brand new owner and a large influx of capital and a return to first
[7:25]principles. But for the moment, my heart goes out to the >> was it 300 people who are now looking for work. >> Um, those of us who lost our jobs when the New York Times shut down the
[7:36]International Herald Tribune in 2016. We feel your pain. Reach out to us if we can help it all because the network is what will save you. That's how I feel about all that. >> Includes the Ukraine Bureau. The mantra,
[7:47]the motto is democracy dies in darkness. Lots of bureaus switching their lights off around the world. >> And great to have you with us tonight. Let's bring in and welcome Emma Kate Simmons, Parisbased writer, editor at
[7:57]Frank Tur magazine, a columnist at New World magazine. Evening, Emma Kate. Great to see you as well tonight. >> Um, you've been working on a lot, some very interesting stories in the past few days, including profiling Marjgerie
[8:09]Taylor Green, who's declared the MAGA movement uh is all a lie. Tell us about that. >> Yes. So, profile coming out in the New World magazine next week. >> Although this is an exclusive then.
[8:20]>> Yes. Well, Madri Taylor Green is giving her own exclusives practically every hour since the second release of the Epstein files. Yes, as you mentioned, she's broken like leaving the cult. She
[8:31]is no longer a true believer. She says Margaret was all a lie. And after having been relentlessly attacked by Donald Trump since she broke with him over the release of the Epstein file starting
[8:42]last September, principally, uh, she has decided to fight back. The question is, is she still a true believer of a slice of that Marger ideology of which she was
[8:53]really a key proponent, a believer in QAnon, this craze conspiracy theory about a satanic elite of global pedophiles, which has been turned on its head obviously with the Epstein affair.
[9:05]She has conspiracy theories about Jewish space lasers, uh, controlling the weather, all kinds of things. But she seems to be after resigning from Congress appearing for preparing for a
[9:16]new chapter in politics. And who knows, maybe she will run for a senior position or even run for president. We have to see what happens in the midterms in November when the Republicans are
[9:28]predicted to absolutely be facing a wipeout. >> It is another mustroode in the following of the MAGA movement. We had Jason Zangurley who' profiled Tuka Coulson last week and now yours for next week on Marjorie Taylor Green. Let me also ask
[9:39]you, you've been writing about Minneapolis, the fatal ICE operations. Interestingly, this week 700 of the roughly 3,000 immigration customs officials are being moved away.
[9:50]>> Yes. So, a lot about ICE, and it's more than excesses. The absolute lawlessness uh being exercised by these customs and immigration officers, all broadly from
[10:00]the Department of Homeland Security, 3,000 of whom have been operating in in Minneapolis. And we all saw the terrible news of them at these extrajudicial killings of two American citizens who
[10:11]were doing nothing more than driving their car or holding a phone to film agents. Uh the cover up that took place immediately uh not knowing the names even of those agents who killed Alex
[10:23]Prey was unprecedented. uh the Trump administration, I wouldn't say in deescalation mode, but in kind of trying to rec retake the narrative
[10:33]because there is more than 63% of Americans now think ISIS is out of control. Uh even Republicans are horrified by what they're seeing. But there seems to be no limit to what the
[10:44]shadow so-called shadow president or prime minister of the Trump administration, Steven Miller, uh there's no limits to to what he will do. And he's been really behind all of that. So, we've been tracking that for
[10:54]Frontier and also at Conspiracy Watch. >> A very interesting term that keeps coming up, the the unofficial prime minister to President Trump. Great to have you here tonight. >> Let's move to Washington DC. Let's bring
[11:06]in Nile Stannage, White House columnist for the US news outlet The Hill, where he writes the influential column, The Memo. Evening, Nile. Great to have you with us as well tonight. First of all, tell us what's it been like this week
[11:17]inside the White House press briefing room. Anything we should know? Well, I guess the thing you should know just within the past 24 hours is this
[11:27]huge firestorm that has broken out here in Washington, understandably so, with President Trump, or at least President Trump's account retweeting a video that
[11:37]included blatantly racist imagery of former President Obama and former First Lady Michelle. the White [clears throat] House has now taken down that that
[11:47]retweet or retruth and has said that a staffer was responsible for it. But I I guess that's just one more example of how we're all trying to keep up with
[11:57]this constant firestorm of news uh during the Trump administration. I mean, it it seems almost bizarre to think about the fact that it's only roughly
[12:07]one month ago where there was the raid on Caracus seizing the Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro and and just think of all the things we've come
[12:16]through since then, including the furore over Greenland and including of course the the horrendous events in Minneapolis that your other guest was just referring
[12:28]to. It's very interesting actually because on another another time another presidency without all of these other events triaging the news actually that may be a story that you just talked about that was leading the headlines in
[12:39]the bulletins for a number of days in social media too. Um while we're talking viewers around the world might recognize you Nile either from your reporting or from the viral footage of shall we say the Frank encounter with White House
[12:50]press secretary Caroline Levit after the death of Renee Good earlier this month. Let's take a look at what happened. >> Earlier you were just defending ICE agents generally and [clears throat]
[13:00]earlier on Secretary Nome spoke to the media and she said among other things that they are doing everything correctly. Um 32 people died in ICE
[13:10]custody last year. Uh 170 US citizens were detained by ICE and uh Renee Good was shot in the head and killed by an ICE agent. Uh how does that equate to
[13:21]them doing everything correctly? Why was uh Renee Good unfortunately and tragically killed? >> Are you asking me my opinion? Because an ICE agent acted recklessly and killed her unjustified. >> Oh, okay. So, you're a biased reporter
[13:33]with a leftwing opinion. >> What do you want me to do? >> Yeah, because you're a left-wing hack. You're not a reporter. You're posing in this room as a journalist. And it's so clear by the premise of your question. And you and the people in the media who
[13:44]have such biases but fake like you're a journalist, you shouldn't even be sitting in that seat. And that tidy continued for another 60 seconds. You were asked your opinion and what President Trump has now said himself
[13:55]seems to align more closely with your personal assessment. N what happened off air after that? Was was the hostility with the press team or once it's finished the mics have turned off the
[14:06]nicest pie. >> So So here's the thing. I mean I know we're at a time when when reporters tend to their personal brand and all of that. I don't actually love talking about
[14:18]things that I have been involved in. You played the the clip there. I'm perfectly happy with the way I uh handled that myself. People can take their own view
[14:27]of Caroline Levit's response to it. Uh but we go on and I you know I'll continue to do my job. She'll continue to do hers and people can draw whatever
[14:37]conclusion they wish both from my line of questioning and from uh her line of response. >> Very dignified answer. Good to have you with us tonight, Nia. Let's also cross to New York and let's bring in Barry
[14:49]Lavine, investigative reporter, former executive editor of the National Inquirer and author of The Spider Inside the Tangle Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gileain Maxwell. Barry has been the recipient of the Huffington Post's Game
[15:00]Changer Award for shoe leather reporting in 2010. It is fantastic to have you with us on the show tonight. First, Barry, I have to ask, how do you define shoe leather reporting?
[15:11]Well, certainly uh o over the course of my career, you know, you have to get out there. You have to knock on doors. that shoe letter reporting. Um,
[15:22]you know, real real investigative reporting sometimes comes from documents, but I have I have always found that you really get the answers from when you go out there and you spend
[15:34]a lot of time on the ground talking to witnesses and not only just talking with them, but also sometimes spending weeks or even months to gain their trust
[15:45]before they're willing to open up and before they're willing to go on the record. So, it's important to um do that type of reporting. I've had lots of friends who've worked for the Washington
[15:57]Post and they were the type of reporters who would go out in the field and would spend that time investigating. And I do think that now the loss of the reporters
[16:09]there is really going to severely impact the great reporting that they've have accomplished over the decades. and and Emma nodding as you're talking there,
[16:20]Barry. Also worth saying that when it comes to what you said, you the shoe leather reporting, the rubber hitting the road, it's kind of the opposite of what we hear from many influencers. And we have um people who say, you know,
[16:31]this is what we think about things different places in the world, but there's nothing, is there, that beats narrowing the distance between a journalist and the story. And your reporting this week is um it's worth saying it's not going to win you any
[16:43]awards for the best sleeping pattern. I heard you've averaged something like two hours a night at one point this week. >> Well, I mean, since we received this latest uh batch of documents, it has
[16:54]been uh uh you know, they were putting me on the air here in America on CNN and so forth, even before I was even able to open up the um newest batch of
[17:05]documents. But we finally have a system now. Uh my system is uh certainly I you know, I'm a one-man band here. Uh the
[17:13]New York Times has teams of reporters uh going through these documents, but I'm looking myself at the reporting that I
[17:22]have done on Epstein over the uh past uh decade or two, and I'm looking for specific documents. And so I need to see
[17:31]with my own eyes uh what material is out there and does it in fact reinforce uh some of what we know about accusations against certain individuals.
[17:42]It's brilliant to have you with us, Barry, on this Epstein file special program. So, let's begin with a book in Nobody's Girl, the posumous memoir by Virginia Gifrey. Virginia recounts being
[17:53]in the Louvre here in Paris in 2021, age 37. She's trying to come to terms, she said, with what happened to her 20 years previously when she says she was taken around the museum for the first time by
[18:03]Jeffrey Epstein and Gain Maxwell, who've been abusing and trafficking her for months. In the final chapter, Virginia sets out her hopes for justice. her hopes that predators are quote punished, not protected. That victims are treated
[18:14]with compassion, not shamed, and powerful people face the same consequences of anybody else. She ends the book calling for the release of videotapes confiscated from Epstein's house, and for the prosecution of more
[18:26]abusers. She ended her life last year, age 41. Well, this time last week was seen as a milestone moment for the 200 surviving victims and alleged victims of Epstein with the US Department of Justice announcing the mass release, as
[18:38]Barry said, of three million pages of files in the name of transparency. And we'll start, Barry, back with you, author, as I say, of the spider inside the tangled web of Epstein and Maxwell.
[18:48]Will these powerful people face the same consequences as anyone else? Oh, I I I certainly have to say at this hour, and I'm sad to say it, I don't
[19:00]think they will. I don't think there's going to be the accountability that the survivors have demanded and deserved. Uh this past uh fall, I was with the
[19:11]survivors in Washington DC when they marched on the capital. um, Representative Thomas Massie and Representative Ro Kahana who spearheaded
[19:22]that transparency act that finally got us to the point where we're seeing these files. But I have to say based on my analysis so far, I don't think there's
[19:32]going to be accountability. And that to me is absolutely tragic because there are documents that I have uncovered in
[19:41]the latest um batch of u uh releases uh that point out uh specifically uh an 86-page prosecution memorandum that was
[19:52]put together uh four months after Jeffrey Epstein's death in 2019 in which the DOJ outlined
[20:02]uh a list of individuals that uh that they wanted to look into for possible prosecution. And I have and of course as
[20:11]as we know there's only been one person on that particular list who uh was prosecuted and that was his co-conspirator uh Gileain Maxwell.
[20:22]though other uh you know very powerful men in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit that witnesses have accused of sex
[20:31]trafficking uh have not uh been brought to justice and most frustrating to me are the redactions in this particular
[20:41]memorandum this 86page memorandum complete pages uh numerous pages that are completely black that you cannot read a single thing that poss possibly
[20:52]could give clues as to the actions that the FBI and the SDNY here in New York took to investigate these men. And we
[21:01]don't have any idea exactly what they did to cooperate the claims made by these women. It's very very frustrating. >> I want to I'm going to raise with you in
[21:10]a minute if I want to turn on you again Barry and ask you your thoughts about particular questions that you had, particular things that you've been looking for in the past few days and whether you've found them or not. First you talk about the redactions. Let's
[21:22]listen to the deputy attorney general in the US. This is what Todd Blanch had to say. >> I hope that the work that that the men and women within this department have
[21:33]done over the past two months um hopefully is able to bring closure. Um I think that um what we what we told our
[21:43]reviewers is that that was the goal. you know, there was there's this mantra out there that, oh, you know, the Department of Justice is supposed to protect Donald J. Trump, and that's what we were
[21:53]telling. That's not true. That was never the case. We are always concerned about the victims. >> Emma Case, what do you make of just listening to Barry, but also just trying to reflect on the significance of what's
[22:04]come out from the release this week? How how would you read that its significance? >> It's hugely significant. As a journalist, I cannot imagine a scandal
[22:13]of this magnitude touching so many areas of the whole world geopolitically, the world of finance, uh, business, law, uh,
[22:24]obviously the victims first and you've spoken eloquently about them and the fact that there has been only uh, accountability for Gileain Maxwell at this stage. Now, I would I would say
[22:34]that in the United States there has been little accountability. However, in the United Kingdom, we've seen how quickly and swiftly and perhaps uh unfairly in
[22:44]some respects uh the reaction has moved since the latest revelations from the files. So obviously Peter Mandlesson under investigation, Prince Andrew more because there's new fresh details
[22:54]confirming what was already known, but there's plenty of new material about Mandlesson, possibly of a criminal nature, him passing sensitive financial and government information to all kinds
[23:05]of uh other foreign entities or even Russian entities. I mean, at the moment that's speculation, but Kama under pressure. He apologized to the victims
[23:14]when uh Donald Trump was you showed the clip asked by Caitlyn Collins of CNN. Uh but what about the survivors? What do you have to say for the Epstein survivors? He turned on her as he did
[23:26]with another female journalist and said quiet piggy and started to attack her personally for not smiling. I see this as a as a segment that will live in infamy in a sense for Donald Trump
[23:37]because I think it it demonstrates the extent to which he is cornered. The conspiracy theories that he pushed and fueled have turned against him. The great deep state global pedophile
[23:47]conspiracy now has his friend Jeffrey Epstein, the Russians, and himself, frankly, at the center of it, at least at the speculation level. And there's plenty of material for prosecutions.
[23:58]>> Plenty of material for prosecutions. Worth saying both Peter Mandles and Andrew Mountbatton Windsor deny wholeheartedly they say any wrongdoing. We haven't heard from Andrew Mountbatton Windsor this week. We'll get on to that
[24:10]in a moment a bit more in detail because there is a lot more to be said. I want to ask you first of all an about anything that surprised you. Are you seeing what you already suspected uncovered so far?
[24:20]>> What I am a little surprised at and that is because I'm kind of a glass half full person. I would like to imagine that there's good in the world even though
[24:30]I've chosen a profession that gives the lie to that every single day with every story we write. But I was stunned. absolutely stunned to see the poor
[24:41]judgment in evidence in practically every page of these latest revelations from not properly vetting Peter Mandlesson before
[24:52]naming him as US ambassador or perhaps him being vetted and whoever Kier turning a blind eye to what
[25:00]they found from that to the uh the top bankers and lawyers uh Jess Staley at JP P. Morgan Chase, Brad Karp at Paul
[25:10]Weiss, turning blind eyes to what they must have seen or what they what turned out to be very flimsy evidence that Jeffrey Epstein had anything of quality
[25:21]to offer to them or to their organizations, the people that they chose to represent. Uh it's all through there. the the willingness of people at
[25:32]a certain level of society to uh accept somebody like Epstein, a flatterer, someone with at best a patchy
[25:42]background, someone who clearly I I I'd never met the man, but whenever you read about whatever you see in these files, it's it's pretty obvious he was he was not
[25:54]disguising why he was seeking the company of powerful people. And it's also very clear from these files the tools that he used to ingratiate himself
[26:05]with the people he wanted to be his so-called friends. One of those tools, and we really can't forget this, one of those tools was these poor young women.
[26:15]They they were currency in in his world. I'll right along there with I can introduce you to Bill Clinton or I can get you an audience. I can get you into
[26:26]Davos. I mean, the head of the World Economic Forum is now under the microscope for having had contacts with Jeffrey Epstein. And the other thing that surprised me is the consistency,
[26:37]and you mentioned it a little bit at the top of the show, the consistency with which people who are now caught out by these files are are denying that there was ever a close relationship. They
[26:49]denied it before. Some of them are still trying to deny it now. And the extraordinary thing is these files reveal that the relationships that these people are now denying
[26:59]sometimes started after his plea bargain in Florida in was it 2008 2008 and continued almost until the day in fact
[27:09]sometimes until the day before he was arrested in 2019. So it's not like this was an unknown quantity. they were still having whatever relationship they had
[27:19]with him during this period when the cloud could not have been darker over his head. So that is the kind of thing that you and I completely agree with Emma Kate. This is a a trove for
[27:30]journalists and and one that is at one at once valuable and really really hard to swallow. >> It is really hard to swallow. Barry, you're trying to to go through, you said
[27:42]right at the the top just how you you're working to try and find more information from 3 million files. Uh we're talking about the world's biggest newsrooms, hundreds of journalists trying to piece
[27:53]together this information. In terms of pages, it's the equivalent of having to read Dsli's Crime and Punishment 5 and a half thousand times, but in fragments. How are you going through it?
[28:03]Well, you know, I I did an op-ed in the New York Times this past um uh summer where I outlined nine questions that I
[28:12]had for the Epstein files and I have been going through them. everything from Jeffrey Epstein's death to the involvement of President Trump, former
[28:23]President Clinton, uh details about the um material from the 70 computers uh that they seized from his various homes
[28:33]and really uh doing keyword searches on uh certain individuals. Um your guest there mentioned for instance Jess Staley
[28:43]uh the uh banker. Uh this was an individual who for many many years greenlighted Jeffrey Epstein's access to
[28:55]finances with JP Morgan Chase. Uh the bells were the warning bells were going off at the bank uh over the suspicious
[29:06]transactions, but Mr. Staley, who was Jeffrey Epstein's um primary banker, uh
[29:13]continued to allow uh Jeffrey Epstein's interactions with this bank. Now, you know, as we know, uh the bank uh has
[29:24]since um um paid out um several hundred million uh in a uh compensation fund to
[29:33]survivors, uh because they recognized the fact that um allowing Jeffrey Epstein this uh access uh to his monies
[29:44]through these suspicious transactions was wrong. Uh but you have a history here, not only just this particular banker, but very very powerful
[29:55]individuals in finance, in in law, as your guest pointed out, who have seemingly looked the other way to allow
[30:03]Jeffrey Epstein to continue uh his um sex trafficking literally right up to the time uh when he was finally
[30:12]arrested. And you know after his initial uh nonprosecution agreement as we call the slap on the wrist agreement uh for
[30:22]um solicitation of a minor in which he received uh uh you know 13 months uh at
[30:30]a uh work release uh uh jail in Florida uh where he was out most of the time. uh
[30:38]he moved his operation to bringing in girls uh primarily to his island off the Virgin Islands.
[30:48]>> And he was bringing in girls as young as 12 years old according to uh Denise George who was the investigator from the Virgin Islands after his death. and he
[30:59]was dressing up these girls in college and university sweatshirts to make them appear older as they were getting off
[31:07]planes. And it uh it is horrifying that the prosecutors did not move on the men
[31:16]like the French modeling agent John Luke Brunell >> who has since died behind bars in Paris.
[31:25]He was a primary enabler for this for many many years. And there's many men like Jean Luke Brunell who are out there
[31:34]who took part in the process of putting girls on planes to you know under the guise of uh that they would be made models and instead
[31:46]they were fed to Jeffrey Epstein. So there's so many men who are out there internationally. Yeah. uh that have to be looked at and it it is very appalling
[31:55]to me that the uh government has not worked uh with the international law enforcement community to bring these men to justice because there's a financial trail
[32:05]>> to the point with with John Brunell who Vi Virginia talks about right at the beginning of the book as well what she was actually giving testimony against him in Paris. He was charged with
[32:17]trafficking of minors of of child sex abuse and he died in the same almost identical circumstances of Jeffrey Epstein but in Paris of apparent suicide
[32:26]in prison. Nile tell us about how this is being reflected this week in the White House. How much journalistic how much political attention is it getting? Are you being steered to welcomed with
[32:38]questions? Is are you being moved away from it especially as you said at the start given the ICE controversy as well in the last few weeks? Yeah, I mean the Epstein files generally
[32:48]have been a huge story here. And if I could just briefly pay tribute to Barry's work, not not only for its rigor and its tenacity over a long period of time, but for putting the victims of
[32:59]Jeffrey Epstein right at the center of it, because that's at a human level the most important factor in terms of politics. I think the Epstein matter at
[33:09]large has done President Trump damage for sure because this is a story remember that encompasses his own reluctance to have these files
[33:20]released. He fought with Congress. Barry mentioned a couple of the congressmen who were spearheading this effort to have the files released. Trump didn't want that to happen and eventually at
[33:31]the last moment facing a defeat in Congress which would have forced the release of the files he changed his own position and said okay they they can go
[33:40]ahead then secondary to that but before we reached the latest release there was a previous batch in November I believe
[33:49]where there was a email or a message from Jeffrey Epstein to the author and journalist Michael Wolf where referring to President Trump Epstein said something to the effect of, "Of course
[34:00]he knew about the girls." That sentence hung out there. Yes, you can interpret it various ways and President Trump very emphatically denies any wrongdoing. In
[34:12]this latest batch of files, which is massive, there were very lurid but entirely uncorroborated allegations against President Trump. Those were covered I
[34:24]think with um understandable care in the mainstream American media partly because of the legal ramifications but also because we don't want to report things for which there is
[34:35]no corroboration at all. More of the focus here in the US was on people like Elon Musk or Howard Lutnik the commerce secretary. Again people against whom there is no criminal allegation but whom
[34:47]the emails called into question previous accounts that they had given. that was a significant focus of American coverage. >> And Emma Kate mentioned now the the President Trump's remarks to Caitlyn
[34:58]Collins at CNN. In terms of appetite for answers and what lies in the contents of these files, it is worth reminding ourselves of the position of of some of those that Emma Kate referred to on Trump's teams as well, President Trump
[35:09]himself. But this was JD Vance on the Theo Vaughn podcast 2024 before he was vice president. Everybody in politics has a vice that's
[35:20]much worse than alcoholism is is the way that I put it. Um but we we um >> release the list. [laughter] >> Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That that is an important
[35:31]thing. >> I mean to quote LP Hartley, the past is a different country. They do things differently there. How is this going to be handled in Washington? Nile in your view that this footage can be brought up
[35:42]and yet it seemed we have uh the administration that can turn heel on that and say well that was then this is things have changed. >> Well, they can turn heel on it. But I'm
[35:53]really glad you played that JD Vance clip because it really gets at one pivotal uh important political element in all of this. The Epstein matter, as I
[36:04]was just describing, has been damaging to President Trump. One reason it has been damaging is that people like JD Vance jinned up the MAGA base with we're
[36:15]going to get into power, release the list, and then everyone, you know, then you're going to see all the predations of these powerful people. Of course, they were talking mostly about Democrats
[36:26]at that time. Then they got into power. At one stage it seemed like this list was about to be released. Then their story was well there actually is no list. There's just documentation. Then
[36:37]there was the whole rigma roll where Trump seemed to be on the opposite side of that question favoring the withholding of information. And I think
[36:46]that that U-turn has actually disqueded at least some parts of the MAGA base. One of your other guests mentioned now former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor
[36:57]Green. She was one of the people, whatever you think about the rest of her political beliefs, who stood up to Trump on the Epstein matter, voted for the release of the files, and was very
[37:08]public with her her uh significant dissatisfaction with how the story was handled. So, I think there you have the the political impact and the human
[37:19]impact of this story really knitting together in in a very interesting and rather politically potent way. something else that politicians seem to believe is
[37:30]knitting together. Now, let's have a listen to the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk this week. Emma, want to get your view on this. The latest political leader, there's been a number of suggestions about this, but stating that
[37:41]intelligence now out suggests Epstein was a Russian spy. This is what he said. A growing number of commentators and experts assume that it is highly
[37:52]probable that this was a premeditated operation by the Russian KGB. This so-called honey trap set for the elites of the Western world, primarily
[38:03]the United States. This can only mean that they also possess compromising material against many leaders still active today. I spoke to Andrew Lowley this evening,
[38:13]the author of entitled the rise and fall of the house of York and he talked about he quoted a character within there a senior source saying that for Epstein the claim was that both Andrew Mbattton
[38:25]Windsor and Bill Clinton's were Super Bowl trophies for the intelligence agencies. What do you make of that? >> Uh yes I mean uh Epstein apparently liked to say that he was part of
[38:35]intelligence. In fact, if you read an incredible essay in the new world, it's there today, published by a French historian, Franis Turma, she recounts what's been building up for a couple of
[38:47]years with the investigative work of places like the Dossia Center and her own work uh and others even like Christopher Steel who was uh very important in on the Russia desk at MI6
[38:59]and originally she wrote for a French publication descri but she said that and showed outlines how Epstein had contacted at the highest level in Moscow for many years and this is coming out in
[39:09]a lot of the files. He was interested in exploiting the financial opportunities offered by Russia. They wanted also financial opportunities and he gave them the perfect opportunity to gather
[39:20]compromat compromising material which of course he could so easily gather on at his island uh his luxury homes where there were so many hidden cameras and videos that some of which we are now
[39:32]seeing in these horribly sometimes unredacted files that have been released. So I think what we're getting in this is something very important. So while there's the whole story of the
[39:41]horrible abuse of so many victims, there is what lies behind that and what was really driving Jeffrey Epstein and the suggestion that he was even manipulating
[39:52]figures like Donald Trump on behalf of the Kremlin. Uh and I would say that JD Vance and Marjgerie Taylor Green struggle on one front after the release of these Epstein files because the two
[40:02]of them are very pro-Russian. JD Vance is extremely close to his patron the co-founder of Palunteer Peter Tiel who comes out a lot in these files is having
[40:12]lots of discussions with Epstein and demonstrating his his own close affinity and meetings with important Russians. I mean, Putin's mentioned more than a thousand times. We have a lover of
[40:24]senior figures. But there's no doubt that even since the 1970s, it appears that that Epstein was cultivated by uh the Kremlin, the KGB at the time, and
[40:34]also he was assisted by his association with Gileain Maxwell's father, Robert Maxwell, which is also in this incredible essay, which I recommend you read because it helps to explain the
[40:45]pieces which can seem so complicated when you when you read about this file dump. Well, within the file dumper, you mentioned it a moment ago. Some some of the more serious consequences have been on well the other side of the channel in
[40:57]the UK. You mentioned Peter Mandlesson. I also want to talk to you and get your vote on on where things lie right now with Andrew Mbat and Windsor. So, this is the scenario. It's not just a political establishment in the UK, but
[41:08]in the royal establishment continuing to face an avalanche of negative press around the king's brother. More allegations facing Andrew. So, what we know uh basically, let's start with Andrew Mountbatton. false image that he
[41:20]said was photocopied, of which he had no recollection. Emails from Galain Maxwell appear to authenticate it was a real photo. Two other claims made against him this week. A second unnamed woman has come forward saying she was trafficked by Epstein to have sex with Andrew in
[41:32]2010 after a tour of Buckingham Palace. A legal letters also emerged from 2011 alleging Andrew and Jeffrey treated an exotic dancer like a prostitute and who a year later was paid a quarter of a million in damages and for her silence.
[41:43]Again, Andrew denies all wrongdoing. But this is a moment now an where huge pressure including from Prime Minister Kalama that he should give testimony to Congress.
[41:55]>> Yes. And if he does that um he'll probably get a big attab boy from his uh nephew Henry Harry for going against the
[42:05]family teaching which is essentially never complain, never explain. Uh never take on the press. Uh stonewall it stiff upper lip. We are not to be questioned
[42:16]on what we do because that destroys the mystery. You could argue from an outsers's perspective that there's very little mystery left with Andrew Mountbat and Windsor. Certainly after the release
[42:27]of some of these files and after the disastrous BBC interview uh that he gave uh how many years ago? Couple of years ago, two >> 2019 was
[42:37]>> 2019. Okay. Um, so in a in a sense you would imagine that he's someone with nothing left to lose. The only thing is that Andrew Mountbatten Windsor being
[42:48]the brother of the king is never going to sleep in the street. He is going to have a grace and favor house on one of the royal estates. I imagine someone will always be there, cut his hair, get
[42:59]him fresh clothes, and make sure he shows up for the very few public engagements that he's allowed to have. So his circumstances are not perhaps
[43:08]dire enough to compel him to go over centuries of training not to reveal too much. But you can also argue it would be
[43:18]so much better for him certainly and definitely for the victims if he would come out finally and at least simply tell the truth which is I imagine what
[43:30]you're going to see. We'll discuss this. I'd be curious to know what Nile thinks of this, but we're going to see that with the Clintons in Congress. >> You take me on to that point. Nile, I'd like to ask you about exactly raised
[43:42]about the Clintons. They've said they will give test will testify in Congress. How significant is that? And Barry, your thought on that as well. >> Well, briefly so I can let Barry in. I
[43:52]think it is significant in the sense that obviously there's a lot has been a lot of speculation particularly about former President Clinton. There has been a political battle here. Initially the
[44:03]Clintons didn't want to testify at all. They wanted to give sworn depositions. Now they are going to testify. Now the Clintons have flipped position entirely
[44:12]and they wanted to be live on camera because I think they are understandably suspicious that Republicans would otherwise release selective clips only to show the Clintons in the worst
[44:24]possible light. It is significant. Just one final point. In the United States right now, we live in such a hyper polarized time that even these very big
[44:35]moments, there aren't that many persuadable members of the audience, to be perfectly honest, Democrats and liberals, I suspect, will mostly cheer on the Clintons, standing up to
[44:46]Republicans. Republicans and MAGA people will celebrate any moment where the Clintons are even put under pressure here. So I suspect reactions to this
[44:56]when it happens are for better or worse going to fall around uh along very partisan lines. >> Barry, listening to that, I'd like to give the final word to you tonight. So where you see um not just Congress, but
[45:07]where you see this heading in the short term and the long term as a result of this this file drop. >> Well, I I I certainly think that the uh Clinton thing is uh is all about
[45:19]politics on the president's part. uh but just in turn uh if he's going to be brought in uh he did of course travel on the plane uh the President Trump should
[45:29]really uh appear and he should take questioning after all he had an actual 15-year relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Uh they partied together. They
[45:40]saw each other a great deal. There's accusations made uh by uh various women uh that put uh uh President Trump um um
[45:51]in the presence of uh some of uh Jeffrey Epstein's victims. So I think that that that President Trump uh should certainly uh be in a position to answer questions
[46:03]under oath. >> Barry, to that question, it leaves us with uh fittingly, I think, to wrap our Epstein Files special today. Thank you all of you so much. An excellent
[46:13]panelist this week examining explaining a huge web of detail around the Epstein files. The implications with unique insight and clarity. With the studio has been amari, independent journalist,
[46:24]media consultant. Thank you an Emma Kate Simmons, editor of Frank magazine, columnist at New York. Thank you to you as well, Emma Kate. Article coming out this week. I'm Taylor Green from New York. Barry Lavine, investive
[46:35]journalist, author of the spider inside the tangled web of Jeffrey Xream and Ghislaine Maxwell. Thank you, Barry. And from DC, thank you to Nile Stannage, White House columnist at The Hill. Thank
[46:44]you to you, Nile. And with often the same news dominating the headlines daily, it can feel like Groundhog Day. And it was on Monday. This week, every year in Pennsylvania since 1887, a
[46:55]woodchuck this predicted the weather, also known as a whistle pig or a land, as you might know better by the name Pitoni Phil. On February the 2nd, every year, he predicts whether there'll be an early spring or six more weeks of
[47:06]winter. After report, he saw his shadow. So, it's six more weeks of winter, I'm afraid. Don't blame me, blame the groundhog. It is good news for the Milan Winter Olympics [music] kicking off this weekend. We will leave
[47:17]you with a clip of Butcher Tony Phil giving his verdict. And as the character Phil Connor says in the movie Groundhog Day, this is the one time where TV really fails to capture the true excitement of a large squirrel
[47:28]predicting the weather. Thank you for watching. We'll see you in seven days for the world next week. It is my job this February 2 to look to
[47:39]the skies and report back to you that there is a shadow here on my ground. SIX
[47:47]MORE WEEKS OF WINTER ABOUND. [cheering]