[0:00]House Democrats on the oversight committee released a handful of Jeffrey Epstein's emails that raised new questions about the relationship between the convicted sex offender and President Donald Trump. In one email, Epste
[0:11]claimed that Trump quote knew about the girls. In another, Epste said to his longtime associate, Gla Maxwell that the quote dog that hasn't barked is Trump. He added that an unnamed victim quote
[0:23]spent hours at my house with Trump. And Maxwell responded that quote, I have been thinking about that. Republicans have said that the victim whose name was redacted is Virginia Du Fray, who has never accused the president of
[0:34]wrongdoing and wrote in her memoir that when she met him, he couldn't have been friendlier. Republicans on the oversight committee accused Democrats of cherrypicking emails that would quote generate clickbait, and then released an
[0:45]additional 20,000 documents. In these various emails, Epstein described Trump as borderline insane, worse in real life, and claimed, quote, "I've met some very bad people, none as bad as Trump,
[0:57]not one decent cell in his body." Seemingly in response to the newly released emails President Trump posted on Truth Social that, quote, "The Democrats are using the Jeffrey Epstein hoax to try and deflect from their
[1:09]massive failures, in particular, their most recent one, the shutdown." Coincidentally, on the same day, a discharge petition secured enough signatures to force a house vote on a bill that would compel the Trump
[1:20]administration to release all files related to Epstein. Barry Lavine, author of The Spider: Inside the Criminal We of Jeffrey Epste and Gain Maxwell, has been investigating the deceased sex offender
[1:31]since the mid200s, and he joins Forb's true crime to discuss what he's learned from the emails. [music] Hi everybody. I'm Britney Lewis, one of
[1:42]the hosts of Forbes True Crime. Joining me once again is Barry Lavine. He has been covering Jeffrey Epstein for years and he investigated him in his book called The Spider. Barry, thank you so
[1:54]much for joining me. >> Thank you, Britney. Once again, >> I want to talk about some bombshells that we learned regarding convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The House
[2:04]Oversight Committee released a trove of emails where convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epste mentions President Donald Trump by name. And I want to read and talk about some of the more headline
[2:14]grabbing ones. In one, Epstein said that President Trump quote knew about the girls. And then in another where Epste was writing his partner in crime accomplice and convicted sex offender
[2:25]Gain Maxwell, he said that Trump quote spent hours at my house with a victim. and the White House and House Republicans later said that that victim was Virginia Dre. So, to start off the
[2:35]conversation, what do the new emails tell us? >> Britney, I have to tell you, after covering this story for years and years, yesterday was one of the most impactful
[2:45]days that I can ever recall because it finally gave us a perspective. It really took us kind of behind the walls of the
[2:54]mansion to actually hear in Jeffrey Epstein's words his true connection to Donald Trump. And a lot of the emails that we read over that were passed on
[3:06]from Jeffrey Epstein's estate to the oversight committee were extremely troubling in terms of how long did Donald Trump know about uh Jeffrey
[3:17]Epstein's involvement with underage girls? When did that start? When did uh uh
[3:26]Donald Trump finally say he had enough? And of course, most troubling of all uh from these emails was the, you know, is
[3:35]the question uh did Donald Trump participate in any of this? Up to this point, he's never been charged with any wrongdoing or as thus far, you know, as
[3:46]we know, he's never been the subject specifically of a criminal investigation into his connection with Jeffrey Epstein. But I have to tell you, Britney, that these emails change
[3:57]everything. I want to talk about exactly what they change, exactly what they reveal about President Trump. Because in your book, you talk about this over decadel long friendship between
[4:09]President Trump and Jeffrey Epste. Both of them are these outer burrow New York guys. And I want to quote your book. You say this, "Out of all of Epstein's past associates, Trump has the most to lose
[4:19]and perhaps the most to want to hide." And I asked you about that quote over the summer. You said you still believe it. And you also told me this that it is disturbing that we are continuing to learn new details about the depth of
[4:30]their relationship. You're saying that these emails change everything. We learned a lot about President Trump. What did you learn about President Trump based on these emails? >> Well, what I what I [clears throat]
[4:41]learned was going back to 2011. At that particular period of time, Donald Trump was moving on from the apprentice into
[4:51]politics. He was making comments about President Obama and his birther conspiracies. So he was becoming much larger on the national stage. Now also
[5:02]at that time of a particular email that Jeffrey Epstein wrote, Virginia who had been uh Jeffrey Epstein and
[5:12]Gileain Maxwell's sex slave for four years came out for the very first time in an interview in the London Sunday
[5:21]Mail where she disclosed that uh she had been uh uh recruited from Trump's Mara Lago and taken around the world by
[5:31]Jeffrey Epstein and Gileain Maxwell and was forced uh forced into sexual abuse at the hands of
[5:41]some of Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell's uh rich and powerful indiv individual [clears throat] friends uh including Prince Andrew who of course has denied those allegations.
[5:53]However, at the time of that interview, she didn't have anything negative to say about Donald Trump and she never accused him of wrongdoing. But we have a specific email
[6:03]from Jeffrey Epstein to Maxwell where he talks about the dog that hasn't barked is Trump. And that is in essence to the fact that nothing has been heard about
[6:15]him or he hasn't said anything about this scandal. And Epstein acknowledges to Maxwell that he spent hours in his
[6:25]house with the victim who the White House uh has said is indeed Virginia Du Fray. Now, while she hasn't never
[6:35]accused um Trump of any wrongdoing, it is particularly questionable as to what Donald Trump was
[6:44]doing with her for hours in Jeffrey Epstein's home. At the time, she was 17 years old. Now, Maxwell responds to this
[6:56]email a few hours later and said that she is wondering about that, too. Now, what does she mean by that? She was
[7:06]recently interviewed by Todd Blanch, the deputy attorney general down in Florida, as she is making an effort to get
[7:16]clemency and a pardon from President Trump after her conviction for sex trafficking of minors. You have to
[7:25]wonder why didn't Todd Blanch raise that email and question her about that? So, there's a cover up of some sort, I believe, that's taking place here, and
[7:35]it is very disturbing. And then there's some additional emails that he sent to an author here in New York, Michael Wolf, who really went
[7:47]above and beyond from being a a book author and an interview subject to where he was uh giving advice to uh Jeffrey Epstein uh in terms of uh attempting to
[7:59]take down Donald Trump with information that Jeffrey Epstein had. Jeffrey Epstein in those emails talks about the
[8:09]fact that of course Trump knew about the girls. He asked Gileain to stop. Uh there's also an email that Jeffrey
[8:18]Epstein emailed himself maybe to put this on the record thinking that uh the feds were closing in where he said
[8:28]uh Jeffrey where he said Donald Trump uh knew about all this although he never had a massage. So, we're we're seeing for the first time in black and white
[8:38]from Jeffrey Epstein the depths of Donald Trump's involvement in their friendship and the fact of what his conduct was while Jeffrey Epstein was
[8:49]involved in this sex trafficking ring for two decades. >> I want to hit on literally everything that you just said, but let's first start with Michael Wolf, an author, a
[9:00]journalist. Those emails were egregious. He was essentially consulting a sex offender. And I want to read them because I have them full just so no one loses context here. This is what he
[9:11]says. He says, "I hear CNN planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you either on air or in scrum afterwards." That's what Wolf said to Epstein. And Epstein said, "If we were
[9:22]able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be?" Wol then responds, "I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political
[9:34]currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you. Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him, generating a debt. Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say,
[9:46]"Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in the Trump regime." Wolf responded to those emails yesterday. He it seemed
[9:57]like he was embarrassed by them and he said that essentially Epste was afraid to publicly say about anything about Donald Trump. Do you think that's true?
[10:06]Well, I mean, the record shows that uh after do after Trump was elected for his first term, it seems that Jeffrey
[10:15]Epstein was emailing a lot of individuals talking about information he had on Donald Trump and also critiquing
[10:24]uh different uh things that uh Donald Trump was doing in his administration. Uh he even wrote an email to a Norwegian
[10:34]official in advance of uh Donald Trump's first meeting with uh Vladimir Putin in which he said that he could provide
[10:42]insight uh for uh Putin and the Russians into uh Donald Trump. So Jeffrey Epstein
[10:50]was um certainly it seems to me becoming a major problem for Donald Trump behind the scenes because he was talking about his character with very important people
[11:01]through these emails. Uh and certainly putting it out there to individuals that he had the goods on Donald Trump. Uh, however, as far as we know, Jeffrey
[11:12]Epste never acted on that in terms of giving an interview or stating anything publicly. But all of this information is disturbing in the sense that it really
[11:23]shows that despite Donald Trump's previous statements that he knew nothing about Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking, that these emails seem to draw Donald Trump
[11:35]much closer into the web. uh particularly in terms of spending time at Jeffrey Epstein's home um spending time around
[11:45]some of the um uh underage girls. There's a disturbing email that Jeffrey Epstein wrote to a financial reporter and friend at the New York Times in
[11:56]which he said, "I have photos of Donald Trump in my kitchen with girls in bikinis. Would you like those photos?" So, what went on behind the scenes at
[12:07]Jeffrey Epstein's uh mansions in New York and Florida is now beginning to be crystallized to some degree. And we're seeing that Donald Trump's involvement
[12:18]with Jeffrey Epstein appears to be much deeper than Trump has acknowledged. >> And House Democrats released the emails that said, "Of course he knew about the
[12:29]girls, meaning Trump knew about the girls." and then that Trump spent hours with a victim in um Epstein's house. Republicans said that they were being
[12:40]cherrypicked and they released their own emails of Epstein. And in in emails released yesterday, Epstein also called President Trump dirty. He said, "I know how dirty Donald is." He called Trump
[12:51]borderline insane, worse in real life and up close. I mean, what do you think was overall the most damning thing you saw? because I know you said it reveals that layer, but does it really implicate
[13:02]President Trump in any wrongdoing? >> Well, we don't know specifically the context of all these, you know, particular emails. And that's why it's
[13:12]so important that we need to have access and the American public, not only Jeffrey Epstein's victims and and there's over a thousand victims, but the
[13:22]American public needs to see the full transparency of the Epstein files. There's over 100,000 pages of documents
[13:32]that the government is sitting on. And I'm told that there are not just hundreds, but maybe more than a thousand references to Donald Trump in those
[13:44]files that the government is refusing to release that right now. Of course, there may be a vote on uh next week uh the discharge petition to get those files
[13:55]released. So, we need to see we're seeing little pieces of the puzzle right now. We need to see the overall context and and I'm very much for redacting
[14:05]names of victims, redacting names of third parties who are not necessarily involved in the sex trafficking, but the references to the sitting president of
[14:16]the United States should be made completely transparent to the American public so we can see exactly if Donald
[14:26]Trump was ever accused by any victims or other indiv individuals of any type of specific wrongdoing. And the other thing that we learned from these emails,
[14:36]it does raise questions in that particular email related to um Donald Trump spending hours uh with Virginia uh inside Epstein's home. He also
[14:47]references the police chief in that email and that would be Michael Writer uh who had been the police chief in Palm Beach, Florida at the time of the very
[14:57]first Epstein investigation in 2004. It begs the question that was the year that Donald Trump uh said he had the falling out with Jeffrey Epstein, that Jeffrey
[15:09]Epstein was uh plucking girls from Mara Lago spa and taking them to work for him. We were also aware of a real estate deal that both men were chasing in Palm
[15:20]Beach. Uh it raises questions to me. Jeffrey Epstein throws out the words police chief. Did he believe that Donald
[15:30]Trump may have provided information about him to that investigation? This is something that we don't know and we need to hear from the authorities in Palm
[15:40]Beach as to what was Trump's involvement in that original investigation. meaning what did Donald Trump know about Jeffrey Epstein at the time of the first police
[15:50]investigation that might have helped with that particular investigation. So, you know, there's all kinds of new disclosures that we're learning from these emails.
[16:01]>> And I think you got a real glimpse into Jeffrey Epstein's obviously his perspective on President Trump, but his tone, his coziness with certain
[16:11]journalists, his relationship with Golain Maxwell. I mean, what did you learn about Jeffrey Epstein through these emails that you didn't know about before or maybe perhaps surprised you?
[16:21]>> Well, I think if anything, the emails may have reinforced what I learned in my investigation from my book about the spider with Jeffrey Epstein.
[16:32]And that was that Jeffrey Epstein always believed that he was smarter than everybody else. and he was ex an extremely brilliant individual when it
[16:43]came to money managing, estate planning, mathematics and finances. He say he did save billionaires a lot of money through the
[16:54]way he was able to craft their uh tax strategy and so forth. But Jeffrey Epstein also believed two things. One was that he was smarter than everybody
[17:04]else and two that he knew the inside dirt about everybody else and he was constantly collecting. He was a collector of people, particularly of important people, whether they were in
[17:15]politics like uh former President Clinton or whether they were the heads of uh Harvard University like Larry Summers or uh individuals in the U
[17:26]science community, uh members of the royal family like Prince Andrew, uh former Israeli prime minister Ehood Barack. Uh Jeffrey Epstein was a
[17:38]collector of people. uh and he was always trying to draw information out from those individuals that he could pocket away and as I wrote in my book I
[17:48]believe he also used that information to blackmail very important individuals. So the emails to me in terms of the mocking uh Donald Trump, talking about his
[18:00]intelligence, disparaging him really played into Jeffrey Epstein's personality, that he was smarter than everybody else, particularly Donald
[18:10]Trump, and that he knew inside secrets about Donald Trump that he could pass along to the Russians or other individuals. So, it did reinforce um how
[18:21]I viewed his personality. >> And to that point about his rolodex, I mean, he knew just household name after household name. Former President Bill Clinton does come up in these emails.
[18:33]Jeffrey Epstein says he was never at the island. Prince Andrew has faced backlash from his relationship or alleged relationship with Jeffrey Epste. I mean,
[18:44]he was recently stripped of his royal titles. He was kicked out of the royal lodge. Did you learn anything about either of those two in these emails that you didn't know so far?
[18:53]>> Well, former President Clinton had had claimed long ago that he never uh visited the island and there was a lot of speculation whether he had
[19:03]accompanied Jeffrey Epstein to uh the island in the Virgin Islands, Little St. Jeff's that Epstein owned and where in fact a lot of the sex trafficking of uh
[19:14]underage girls took place. Uh Epstein did uh clarify in the emails that uh Clinton never uh visited the island. So
[19:24]that was that was something specific. Uh in terms of Prince Andrew, you had some panicked emails from Prince Andrew to
[19:33]Jeffrey Epstein. At the time, Virginia was speaking out publicly for the first time in 2011. And you could sense from the emails the
[19:45]panic that Prince Andrew must have been going through when this woman was putting Prince Andrew into an international sex trafficking scandal at
[19:56]the time. And uh as we learned later on from additional emails that surfaced uh
[20:04]uh in the u um English newspapers is that Prince Andrew had said that when all this was going on that he had taken a trip to New York to basically
[20:15]cut all ties with Jeffrey Epstein. And then we found out from these emails that Prince Andrew was actually continuing to communicate
[20:24]with uh Jeffrey Epstein well after he said he had cut off communication. And I do believe that it was those emails that had recently been obtained by uh English
[20:35]newspapers that really forced uh his brother uh King Charles to sever all ties with Prince Andrew because it
[20:44]showed that he was completely lying in that uh infamous train wreck TV interview he had given over in London uh some years back. And I do want to move
[20:55]on and talk about Galain Maxwell because the most damning email or one of the most damning emails that surfaced yesterday was sent to her. I'll read it again in full. This was in 2011. Epstein
[21:06]sent this. I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked as Trump redacted victim one who uh House Republicans said was Virginia Dra spent hours at my house with him. He has never
[21:18]once uh been mentioned. And Maxwell responds, "I have been thinking about that, but over the summer doesn't really seem like she was thinking about that, especially during her interview with the
[21:28]DOJ." Because she said she never saw any concerning behavior with Trump. He was always a gentleman in all respects. She said that Trump and Epstein didn't really have a super close friendship and
[21:39]that she herself never saw him at Epstein's house. Do you think that based on what we saw in these emails that shows that Golain Maxwell was lying?
[21:49]Oh, I absolutely do. It is in direct conflict to what she had told Todd Blanch in this interview. And the interview really was nothing more, as far as I'm concerned, than an
[22:00]infomercial to basically laid the groundwork for a pardon from President Trump by her expressing over and over over again what a great guy Trump was
[22:10]and the fact that she never saw any type of uh wrongdoing on on his part. I do think now that um the oversight committee uh needs to subpoena her and
[22:22]to bring her in and to question her specifically uh Britney about the that particular email that you just um read in full, but
[22:33]also some of the other emails that that put uh President Trump inside of uh Jeffrey Epstein's home and and also uh
[22:44]um Jeffrey Epste says to Michael Wolf at one point in one of the emails that uh uh Donald Trump told uh Gileain uh to
[22:55]stop. Now I I take that to be stop taking girls from the Mara Lago spa that
[23:04]she was taking like Virginia to Epstein uh for these uh sexualized uh massages. So, she needs to answer to all of this
[23:15]because she claims that she was never part of any wrongdoing, that she never saw any wrongdoing, and these emails
[23:24]specifically contradict uh what she said to Todd Blanch, and also contradict what she said in uh depositions that she's
[23:33]given over the years. So, I do think that uh the oversight committee needs to act and they need to act fast in an in an attempt or in a request to the
[23:45]Justice Department to bring her in and take her to task on these specific emails. >> After the interview that Maxwell had with Todd Blanch, we then saw her
[23:56]transferred to what has been described as a cushy prison facility. And Julie Brown, she's a reporter with the Miami Herald and for years she has tirelessly reported on the Epstein story and she
[24:08]has some recent reporting on a letter that Congressman Jamie Rascin sent to President Trump and I want to read parts of that letter. In that letter, Rascin says that Gla Maxwell is working on a
[24:19]commutation application. He also reveals that inside that Kushy prison that federal law enforcement staff working there have been quote waiting on Miss Maxwell hand and foot. He also quoted a
[24:30]top official there saying that he's quote sick of having to be Maxwell's Raskin then posed this question to President Trump. What information is Ms. Maxwell agreeing to suppress in
[24:41]order to receive such outlandishly favorable treatment as a federal prisoner and convicted sex offender? What do you think the answer is there? And based on the emails that have been
[24:52]released, did we learn anything in there that could answer that question? >> I don't think we learned anything from the emails. Uh the emails ended in 2019.
[25:01]Um but I do think that uh Maxwell's situation right now having been moved to this minimum security
[25:11]dormatory type facility in Brian, Texas from the lockup uh the federal lockup she was in in Florida is absolutely a quid proquo in the sense
[25:21]that the government is taking care of Maxwell right now. And in it it's disgusting. I can tell you this in speaking to some of Jeffrey Epstein and
[25:33]Gileain Maxwell's victims, for her to be treated the way she's being treated and waited on as she is by the warden there
[25:42]and others is revolting. She's a uh convicted of sex trafficking of minors. She shouldn't, first of all, according
[25:52]to the Bureau of Prisons uh guidelines, she shouldn't be in the facility that she's in. And I've attempted to reach officials with the
[26:02]Bureau of Prisons several times about this. And no one is talking. To me, this is something that came out of her interview with Todd Blanch. It's
[26:12]absolutely wrong. The victims are horrified over the treatment that she's receiving right now and they're so fearful that uh President Trump is going
[26:23]to pardon her or give her a reduced sentence. Of course, he has the right to do that. Uh and we know that she recently requested that. But I do think
[26:34]if there was any something that was positive that came out of the re release yesterday of these emails from Jeffrey Epstein's estate to the oversight
[26:44]committee. It's the fact that now there's even more publicity around this and it is disgusting to the American
[26:53]public as to some of the things that Jeffrey Epstein said about Donald Trump in these emails. And I'm hoping that
[27:01]this public outcry now will stop an attempt by uh Gileain Maxwell to receive a pardon from President Trump.
[27:12]But again, at the end of the day, uh he marches to his own drummer. He'll he'll make whatever decision he wants. But I think that if he were to give Maxwell a
[27:22]pardon, it would appear to the public that he is guilty of something, that he is trying to hide something, and that's why he's being nice to this woman. >> And could you imagine the public outcry
[27:34]if he pardoned Golain Maxwell or commuted her sentence because she is a convicted sex offender. What she's accused of is disgusting across party lines to almost every American. It
[27:45]should be disgusting to every single American. And I'm curious, this may be a very simple question, but there have been calls now for years, release the Epstein files. Are these the Epstein
[27:55]files? I know people want a client list, but we're seeing names being dropped in these emails. Do you think that this is enough? I mean, what makes this different from what people call the Epstein files?
[28:06]>> Well, the Epstein files are the FBI files that the uh government has has held. uh they released um some documents
[28:16]over the years, but nothing to a degree where uh there's specific references to u to Trump beyond being in the um um
[28:26]address book and and the flight logs. Uh there's 100,000 pages of documents that are results of interviews with victims,
[28:37]uh information about possible investigations into third parties, men, uh that enabled Jeffrey Epstein's sex
[28:47]trafficking, uh fixers who put young girls on planes, uh and to have them arrive in the Virgin Islands, uh to be abused by Jeffrey Epstein. There's a a
[28:58]wealth of information in those files that could give us the complete picture of the government's effort to seek justice not only against Jeffrey Epstein
[29:08]and Glain Maxwell but possibly others in their web of criminality. The uh files or the emails that were turned
[29:20]over that we're discussing today were turned over by Jeffrey Epstein's estate. The estate has additional materials. Not all of that information has been in the
[29:31]hands of the FBI. And it is only now under complete subpoena from the oversight committee that the Jeffrey Epstein estate has been providing
[29:43]additional materials to the oversight committee. And so, uh, from the emails, I' I've learned the names of, uh,
[29:53]upwards of, uh, 100 new men that should be investigated, uh, for possible participation in, uh, sex trafficking, uh, with Jeffrey
[30:05]Epstein. And there were some coded emails that were very, very disturbing. Uh, one man wrote to Jeffrey Epstein, uh, when I visit, should I bring the
[30:15]secret cake from New York? Um, to me that was some type of code or signal in terms of uh bringing a u a girl to him.
[30:25]Uh, if you read between the lines, uh, there's some very, uh, disturbing um, information that Jeffrey Epstein was uh,
[30:35]uh, discussing with, uh, with some of these men. So it really does open the door to the fact that we need the
[30:43]Justice Department to look into each and every name that's come across from these emails and each of these individuals need to be interviewed and if there's
[30:55]crimes uh then they need to be prosecuted and and we need to see if in the Epstein files there's any type of cooperation from other victims. So, you know, to me, this has opened up a
[31:06]hornets's nest of new information uh for investigators, but my biggest fear is that we're dealing with the Trump administration here. And for the most
[31:16]part, uh they have stated that there's nothing to see in these files. That's why they said they were not going to release them uh last this past July. Uh
[31:27]so, I I really wonder if we'll ever see any type of justice in this particular case. as long as Donald Trump remains in office. >> And to that point, President Trump,
[31:39]since these emails have been released, he called this a hoax, the White House press secretary said that these emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong. That's what she said once the
[31:50]House Democrats released those emails. But just yesterday, that discharge petition had enough signatures where next week there's going to be or there's expected to be rather a vote that would compel the Trump administration to
[32:02]release all the files related to Jeffrey Epstein. But what do you think the likelihood of that happening is? Because even if that passed the House, it would still need to pass the Republican majority in the Senate and then
[32:13]President Trump himself would have to sign that into law. What's the likelihood of us seeing all of the Epstein files, any and any and everything related to him?
[32:24]>> Well, Britney, I know that uh uh I was in Washington DC over the um uh at the end of the summer when Jeffrey Epstein victims uh marched on Capitol Hill and
[32:34]held a press conference uh demanding the release of the uh Epstein files. And I know that they're going back to Washington again next week um to hold a
[32:44]second press conference. Uh but at the end of the day, I'm afraid that uh their cries are going to fall on deaf ears because I don't think at the end of the day Donald Trump based on the statements
[32:56]that he's made, based on the statements that uh his attorney general uh Pam Bondi has made, uh the FBI director Cash Patel that they plan on releasing these
[33:08]files to the public. So, this is going to be something uh that is going to continue to hang over uh their heads for the rest of this administration and Jeffrey Epstein is going to continue to
[33:19]haunt Donald Trump uh from his grave. Uh I think that the likelihood of seeing the files released uh the odds are very
[33:29]very low at this point that this administration is going to uh do that even though they promised uh more transparency in this administration to the public than in any past
[33:40]administration. And we may have to wait for a uh Democratic administration uh to come into office before we see these files. And do you think that this is
[33:51]going to ruin President Trump's legacy or reputation? However, anyone views that because the Access Hollywood tapes certainly did not. He was elected to
[34:02]president twice after that. January 6 didn't. He then won the election in 2024. I mean, do you think that his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein does it for people?
[34:14]Well, I think from what we what we saw in the summer, this was the very first time that there had been a splintering in his MAGA base where there were many
[34:25]members of MAGA uh public figures who said that these files need to be released because there's secrets that the government is holding from the
[34:35]public. So, I do think that this is something that is going to continue to swirl and I do think it's always going to um haunt his uh legacy be because the
[34:46]public really wants to know what took place with Jeffrey Epstein who is a sex trafficker of underage girls. And yes,
[34:57]we we saw the Access Hollywood tape. I wrote a book called All the President's Women, Donald Trump and the Making of a Predator, going into detail about the allegations that were lodged by more
[35:07]than two dozen women against him. Uh, but this is different. This deals with sex trafficking of minors. And it is
[35:16]something to me that's a line regardless of, you know, what side of the aisle that you you uh vote on. That it is
[35:25]something that uh uh good people uh that Americans uh think is something uh that is absolutely disgusting, that it's
[35:35]absolutely criminal. and the fact that you have a sitting president who's had a past with this a friendship for 15 years with this indivi individual and now
[35:46]we're seeing emails from Jeffrey Epstein uh talking about Trump's uh knowledge of
[35:55]what went on behind the scenes is particularly disturbing. And my last question to you, because these emails really seem to open a Pandora's box
[36:06]here, like you said, it was like opening a hornet's nest. I'm curious because as you've also said, this was one of the most consequential days in everything related to Epstein that you've ever
[36:17]covered from start to finish. What specifically are you looking out for next in terms of the answers to the biggest questions that you have?
[36:28]Well, I do think that if we had access to the Jeffrey Epstein FBI files that we could see if there's
[36:38]actual cooperation in there in terms of um what are the references to Donald Trump in those files and are they damaging?
[36:47]Are they embarrassing? Um, and until we actually see all the information, right now we're still seeing very small pieces of the puzzle. We need to see that
[36:58]puzzle put together in its entirety. And until we know that, uh, we're never going to know the real truth about uh what went on behind closed doors between
[37:08]Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. And it is important because uh this man is uh the most powerful individual in the world right now sitting in the Oval
[37:17]Office now for a second time. And I think as a voter in America, we should be demanding that the government release
[37:27]these files, particularly in complete transparency to every single reference to Donald Trump in these FBI files. Barry, I always appreciate your
[37:39]expertise. I've leaned on your reporting and your investigative work so much when I talk about Epstein and everything related to his criminal network. So, thank you a million times over. You're
[37:50]welcome back anytime. I hope you can come back soon. Well, when there's new developments, uh, we'll definitely talk and hopefully that new development will be by some type of
[38:01]miracle that the government is going to release those files and then we can, uh, dig in and see what's actually in there.