[0:00][Music] a surprise
[0:27][Music] there you go welcome to long crime now everybody i'm
[0:40]jesse weber and that was elijah mclean that's the young man out of colorado who ultimately died after a controversial police arrest and also an encounter with paramedics
[0:51]it's a case that's left people with a lot of questions why did mclean die why was he stopped how come no one has been criminally charged in this case so to help me get some of the answers to these questions
[1:02]we have a very special guest with us here on long crime now the attorney for elijah mclean's family mari newman mari great to have you here on long crime now okay i think we might be working on some
[1:19]audio issues so uh as soon as we work on this let me see if i can bring terry austin in my long crime legal analyst terry i know you're with us uh it's an interesting case you and i
[1:30]have been following this and i want to get maury in as soon as we can but the status of where we're at at this point the latest is that the apparently the state health department is going to be looking into the use of
[1:41]ketamine because it's been very controversial that this young man was injected with 500 milligrams of ketamine which although the autopsy indicates was not an excessive amount it has
[1:52]become under question here what do you make of that well i think it's a great question jesse because why did they insert ketamine he was absolutely responding to the officer's
[2:04]commands and in fact he was telling the officers you know i'm a quiet guy i don't bother anyone he was you know held and there was no reason to inject them with ketamine
[2:16]which is used when they're trying to calm someone down i think they thought that he was not calm but based on what we have seen there was absolutely no need to inject
[2:27]him with this you don't know the state of the individual that you're dealing with he could have been allergic to it and certainly it was a deadly use of this drug so yeah
[2:37]i think it's a big question okay well now let me get to the answers and terry thank you for that i want to now go to amari newman mari great to have you here sorry about the audio issue
[2:47]now we can bring you on uh and thanks for joining us here on long crime now i want to start with the officers because you have been quite vocal about their actions but i'd like to clarify it do you think that the officers
[2:59]should be criminally charged and under what theory would you imagine it to be a murder charge a manslaughter charge explain it to me exactly what you believe should have been he
[3:10]should have or what charges should be brought in this case well thank you for having me i absolutely do believe that the officers and the medics involved should be criminally charged and when i say that i'm not just talking
[3:21]about the three officers who are hands-on murdering elijah mclean i'm also talking about all of those officers including two sergeants who stood by and
[3:32]failed to intervene to stop the almost 18 minutes of torture as well as the two medics who injected him involuntarily with a massive overdose of ketamine
[3:42]so i certainly do believe that all of those individuals should be both criminally charged and and also held civilly liable so let me ask you this this is the main
[3:53]question people group the elijah mclean incident with brianna taylor with george floyd with the mod arbory do you believe this was race-based in other words
[4:03]if elijah mcclain was white would the police have responded in the same way unfortunately i do believe it was race-based if elijah mclean were a white
[4:14]man i think the odds are very high he would still be alive today and that's not just generalized speculation but the aurora colorado police department unfortunately has a long and sordid
[4:26]history of racist and brutal policing statistically aurora colorado is much more likely to stop a person who is black and much more likely to use
[4:36]force and especially deadly force on a person who's black so i certainly believe that if elijah mcclain had not been black he might be alive today you had said that the autopsy was
[4:48]actually a politically motivated remember we can't forget the pul the autopsy indicated that there was no precise cause of death again ketamine they said was not an excessive amount uh you've been
[4:58]quite critical of the fact that no criminal charges have been brought but what do you say to the people that would say you know what this is just a difference in medical opinion this is a difference in legal opinion
[5:10]about when to bring charges what's a strong case because to say that this could be politically motivated that's a big accusation here so our allegations would say and i guess
[5:20]the question is is this a cover-up and why would it be a cover-up well i don't make those kinds of allegations lightly i'm saying that it's politically driven because i believe it's politically
[5:32]driven here in colorado the coroner is an elected position not not necessarily a medical doctor and in fact the coroner is not a medical doctor so while a medical professional does the
[5:43]actual autopsy uh it's overseen by somebody who is a political actor not a medical doctor and in this instance two of the members of the aurora police department the very
[5:54]department that murdered elijah were in attendance as well as two members of the same district attorney's office that refused to prosecute those murderous officers
[6:04]so that is obviously very politicized and when we see the results of the autopsy it's no surprise i mean you read this autopsy and it really is head scratching to figure out
[6:14]why is it that they're just bending over backwards to say everything except for the obvious when a perfectly healthy 23 year old young man is walking home from
[6:25]the convenience store he's alive he's healthy he's doing just fine and then he is confronted by officers inflicted with multiple different kinds of excessive force two carotid chokeholds
[6:37]multiple types of uh so-called pain compliance techniques even though he is handcuffed on the ground the weight of hundreds of pounds of officers on his body
[6:47]while he's restrained and then injected with this massive dose of ketamine to somehow deny that that is a homicide is very obviously politicized clearly it
[6:58]is homicide homicide means death by another that's no accident and the fact that the coroner insisted it was an accident shows just how political this is
[7:09]but are you saying people are lying that they're just liberal they're deliberately misrepresenting the facts here i think that it is a certainly it is a very slanted
[7:20]version of the facts all designed to avoid accountability and to deny what is very obviously wrongdoing this is very clearly a homicide homicide means death by another
[7:30]it doesn't necessarily attribute motive so it's not the same as saying murder so when a coroner uh confesses that something is a homicide they're not saying that it necessarily is a murder they're just saying
[7:42]it is a person who would not have died but for the actions of other people that's clearly what happened in elijah mcclain's case and the refusal to say that is very obviously politicized and there
[7:53]are other factors in this case lent to the cover-up sorry to interrupt well there are a lot of factors in this case and there's a lot of different angles including the fact
[8:04]that there were several officers who were reprimanded and ultimately uh had to resign and be fired for taking controversial photos at the crime scene or at the site of elijah mcclain's death
[8:15]and what was interesting is that the chief here the chief of the aurora police vanessa wilson came out and was very critical highly critical of these officers take a
[8:25]listen to this it's representable and that's why they no longer work here i would like to give you some information
[8:36]about those officers kyle dietrich which is depicted in the photo he has been on the war police department for three years
[8:45]since 2016. jaren jones depicted the photo he has been on three years also 2016 and he is the one to resign
[8:57]erica marrero depicted in the photo has been employed for two years was hired in 2018. the last officer that i
[9:09]fired received this photo and replied
[9:17]with an inappropriate comment of ha ha there is absolutely nothing funny about this
[9:26]that officer is jason rosenblatt he has been on for three years he is not being involved in the because of him being in the
[9:37]incident of the photo he's being fired for his lack and utter inability to do the right thing here and to say haha
[9:48]when he was engaged in the incident with elijah mcclain is absolutely no exception so mario i'd like to get your opinion on something how do we reconcile this how do you reconcile this on one hand
[10:00]you just said that the police department has a really awful history um and and correct me if i'm wrong but you plan on behalf of elijah mclean's family to file a federal civil rights lawsuit
[10:11]against the police department so clearly accusing them of wrongdoing but yet you have the chief here who took a decisive action as soon as these photos came out
[10:21]and how do you reconcile that and maybe is it just the chief here or do you believe uh something else is going on because people are looking at this and maybe see
[10:30]two different narratives officers felt so emboldened and they knew that their department wouldn't have a problem with them going
[10:40]to the site where elijah was murdered in their uniforms taking pictures reenacting the very sort of chokehold that murdered him shows that it is a very troubled department
[10:51]where they believe that they can do pretty much anything they want to now i absolutely agree with the acting chief's decision to terminate those officers for reenacting that
[11:02]murder and joking about it that's disgusting but they absolutely ought to have been fired in the first instance for killing elijah mclean and to be clear two out of those three
[11:12]officers who re-enacted the murder were there when elijah was murdered they are two officers who are among those who fail to intervene to stop the torture and they weren't fired for that what
[11:23]they were fired for was reenacting it and making a joke of it now this is reminiscent of some of the most appalling kinds of the racist history of the united states where people used to go back to the site
[11:35]of lynchings and take pictures and make postcards and send them around i mean that is a very very disturbing part of our nation's history and it's being reenacted here i certainly agree that the
[11:46]interim chief's decision to fire them was appropriate but they all ought to have been fired long ago and the remainder of the officers involved particularly those hands-on officers
[11:56]who murdered elijah should be fired let me ask you this when we think about it the ketamine issue is just major here and we in law we know that there's the
[12:06]but four right but for this would this have happened do you you had said both the officers and the paramedics are responsible but what happens if it comes out that the paramedics if they had an intervene if they hadn't
[12:18]uh supplied the ketamine then maybe elijah mclean wouldn't have suffered a cardi uh a cardiac arrest i mean who do you hold more to blame here or is it equal
[12:28]well there's plenty of blame to go around here the fact that the officers in interacting with elijah in the first place is the original source of the problem
[12:40]the fact that the paramedics then came in and dosed him with that massive dose of ketamine of course uh compounded it but had the officers
[12:49]not stopped elijah had not tackled elijah had not inflicted all of those multiple kinds of force for nearly 18 minutes there would have been no reason for the
[13:00]medics to have been there at all so there's plenty of blame to go around they're all global we have about 30 seconds left and i want to get your uh question about this it's my understanding the us attorney
[13:12]the fbi and the doj these three agencies are looking into elijah mclean's death is there anything you can tell us about this have they contacted you at all about this because people are wondering what the next steps are and
[13:22]again we have about 30 seconds they have not contact contacted us who has contacted uh i'm sorry we have been contacted by the state attorney general's office which is also conducting its own
[13:33]investigation and i'm very hopeful that that will lead somewhere but we're open to helping any investigator it should have happened long ago i'm glad that it's happening now there's a lot of people who want answers
[13:45]and maybe we'll get those answers mari newman thank you so much for coming on to long crime now we really appreciate it and when we come back we have to focus on another major development you've heard this case
[13:56]we've talked about it a bunch elaine maxwell huge day we'll be back [Music] i'm not going to comment on anyone's
[14:13]status in this investigation but i will say that we would welcome prince andrew coming in to talk with us we would like to have the benefit
[14:22]of his statement you know i have no further comment beyond what i just said which is that
[14:33]our doors remain open as we as we've previously said and we would welcome him coming in and giving us an opportunity to hear his statement now the question is who's going to come
[14:45]forward now that many prominent people have been mentioned in over 600 page document dump in this case despite the efforts of delane maxwell's attorneys judge released previously sealed
[14:55]documents related to an old lawsuit that was filed against maxwell and jeffrey epstein by accuser of virginia robert dufrey names like prince andrew president bill clinton president trump
[15:05]alan dershowitz stephen hawking former governor bill richardson naomi camel campbell emmy taylor they were all mentioned in these documents want to go first
[15:16]to our long crime zone aaron keller aaron thanks for coming on you were combing through the documents when they were first released people might be looking this and saying wow wow it's a bombshell it changes
[15:25]everything does it really does it change the narrative what's new here that we didn't know previously jesse these documents have a number of redactions indeed there are
[15:37]several dozen pages that are completely blacked out complete black screen so we don't know everything that the documents originally purported but the bottom line here is that this massive
[15:49]dump contains a few new nuggets that contains a few new facts that fit within the narrative that we've already heard about this case the names are mostly the major names
[15:59]that we've been used to hearing up until this point regarding these allegations and these events with jesus maxwell jeffrey epstein virginia du frey dershowitz all of the names that you
[16:10]mentioned so so it fits within what we know already not a huge bombshell here but certainly more little nuggets and pieces of information that add up
[16:20]on top of what we already know so let's talk about some of those nuggets we're going to start with bill clinton so i'm going to show you some documents as we go through this uh some of the documents and we're going
[16:31]to throw them up first said that clinton was on the island where it's alleged that much of the sexual abuse occurred also it was said that galen maxwell allegedly
[16:40]flew clinton in then clinton along with other celebrities like naomi campbell who i mentioned before were with or within epstein's orbit and there's even a part where drew frey had asked
[16:52]epstein epstein what's bill clinton doing here and epstein allegedly said that he owed him a favor now it should be noted that there's no allegation in these documents that clinton
[17:03]engaged in any illegal activity or sexual abuse of minors or anything like that but the idea of the favor terry what does that tell you
[17:12]interesting i really hesitate to expose the names of individuals who haven't really been accused of wrongdoing by defray or anyone else for that matter because
[17:23]people will start making connections and they will think that bill clinton naomi campbell and all of these others have been involved especially when you talk about a favor
[17:34]it's interesting i don't know what that could mean unless for whatever reason you know there's a favor that's owed here and you would absolutely start to think that maybe
[17:44]clinton was involved in this whole sex ring as well so it's troubling to me that these names are being released without any real accusations behind them aaron what about prince andrew and while
[17:57]we go over this i think there was a part a portion which we could throw out where there's a conversation of the photograph that that became very famous and you're and what's interesting about this photograph with jeffrey is
[18:08]the idea that you know perhaps the federal investigators were looking into him much earlier and than we suspected but you look through the documents what new information or what can you
[18:18]tell us about prince andrew look his name appears many times throughout the documents we've heard the core accusations against him again i don't know if the documents really
[18:30]pile that much more new information again as i said no true smoking guns here just sort of adds to what we already know the one interesting thing that i took away from the documents uh and
[18:41]again this has been out in the ether a little bit uh up until this point but that famous picture of uh virginia dufre roberts along with prince andrew is actually taken by jeffrey epstein himself and they
[18:52]actually see that in the court documents gives it a little bit more error of authority than what we've heard in the past so again the core accusations are still there many of them are just accusations there's not a
[19:04]smoking gun piece against bill clinton and on the supposition goats remember we've got more documents coming out on monday yeah i want to get to that in a second
[19:16]but we mentioned drew frey so she was actually interviewed on cbs by gail king talking about should these prominent figures these high power individuals should they be nervous
[19:27]listen to what she had to say best of neil and maxwell do you think there are a lot of men in this country in this world that should be panicking based on the information that she has
[19:37]oh yeah and i really hope they are very well known popular men that everyone would know the names of i can't wait for the day of truth to light
[19:48][Music] so you might have these people who are mentioned in the documents like a prince or the head of a large hotel chain maybe a little nervous by what came out but let's turn back to galen maxwell here
[20:00]the woman who has been charged and hit with several felonies in connection with this purported sex ring so let's go to some of the documents we're going to throw them up here uh so first of all maxwell allegedly
[20:10]ordered jufrey to have sex with people and even give an erotic massage as i said to the owner of a large hotel chain then we turn to these email exchanges and let's put them up
[20:22]here between epstein and maxwell which seemed to go all the way back to 2015 which by the way it seems not that far along considering the fact
[20:32]that she said she hadn't spoken to him for 10 years prior um and then if you read this you say okay with me you have done nothing wrong and i would urge you to start acting like it
[20:43]go outside head high not an escaping convict go to parties deal with it i and then and i find that very interesting terry what do you make of that listen
[20:54]i think that maxwell did not want these documents to come out because it shows her being explicitly involved with jeffrey epstein and trying to help him
[21:05]out and trying to give him defenses and you know there's even one part of the document that talks about the fact that you know she's not clothed so she's
[21:16]definitely got some exposure with these documents we already know that virginia dufrey has implied that you know maxwell has been heavily involved with this whole
[21:26]scheme to attract young girls to epstein not only that it seems as though these documents are involving her directly in these you know assaults of these young
[21:38]girls so yeah i think maxwell fought hard it seems like that's the reason why at the last minute she wanted the judge to not bring these documents forward yeah aaron your opinion after reading
[21:51]these documents about the role that she allegedly played you know she tried to make these last minute efforts the judge said she was just trying to muddy the waters with all this what's your opinion of the
[22:02]allegations the charges levied against her after reading these documents support the charges if you believe the accusers again it's more pieces of information
[22:14]piling up to create a bigger puzzle after those emails we were just talking about here's what they are those emails were sent right after juffrey roberts sued jeffrey epstein
[22:26]and epstein is talking to maxwell about basically how to structure her own pr campaign to try to present prevent rather herself from getting dragged into the entire thing
[22:37]so you know that makes it look like there's a meeting of the minds here and again when were those emails sent early 2015 jizlin said during one of her recent bail
[22:48]motions in her criminal case that she hadn't talked to jeffrey epstein for more than 10 years well those emails were only five years ago so what is it let's not forget she's hit with perjury
[23:02]charges right aaron and isn't that what we're waiting for monday her deposition next week that to come out that deposition from 2016. isn't that what we're waiting for that sums up the perjury charges that
[23:12]she lied about what she said i'll trust you on that jesse i've been so focused on the some pages that came out at 10 o'clock
[23:23]last night that i haven't that before or haven't thought rather that far ahead and forgive me i'm not about four hours as well i'll tell you what's in this uh but yeah we've got this other
[23:32]transfer documents coming out yeah and i we're way eager to see that but let's stick with these documents and another big name you know we have to turn to him alan dershowitz okay so alan dershowitz
[23:44]he has always adamantly denied doing anything illegal that he sexually abused any young woman including virginia dufrese actually listen
[23:54]to when he spoke earlier on and said that he has nothing to hide and he did nothing wrong take a look the goal of going after me was to
[24:05]get um a lot of money from lexi wexner who was accused of the same thing they accused me publicly and then they accused wexner privately in an attempt to get some um
[24:17]money uh from him but uh and the best friend told me that virginia roberts told her she was quote she felt pressured to include me even though she had never previously
[24:28]mentioned me as one of the people with whom she allegedly had relations so my case is completely closed over i've been completely cleared i had
[24:39]nothing to do with it and never met the woman and this is a woman who should be seriously punished for having uh submitted false information and a
[24:49]false affidavit so what do the documents say about dershowitz we'll go to some of them so as you can see we're putting them up right now drewfrey alleges that she was
[25:01]sent to new york to have sex with dershowitz then there's another part where it straightforwardly says that he was not only an abuser but he was an eyewitness to the abuse as
[25:12]well dershowitz responded back to this document dump this release of documents and he tweeted this i'm going to put it up as well where he says there are no new
[25:22]accusations against me in the documents i got unsealed all her accusations were made in suits she filed years ago they were false then and now as shown by her emails and
[25:33]manuscript that prove i never met her joining me right now is former federal prosecutor and long crime legal analyst gene rossi gene great to have you here what do you make of dershowitz's
[25:43]response because it seems that he was waiting for this he was eager for the documents to come out he had nothing to be nervous about but you tell me well first off i was busy making popcorn
[25:53]listening to you people talk about all this i mean this is very exciting let me focus on professor dersowitz he does have a point because some of these allegations are just repeats
[26:05]rehashing and a regurgitation of things that were said about him and the thing about alan dershowitz he's very brilliant no getting around that uh but i don't
[26:17]think there's anything really directly linking him to any of these allegations other than his name is being popped up in
[26:26]in memos and depositions there's really no evidence that he was involved other than speculation i think gene let me ask you one quick question
[26:38]20 seconds if we can 30 seconds you know everybody thinks that glee maxwell is a treasure trove of information the fact that all this was released does that hurt her bargaining chip in a way because now this information was
[26:49]released and maybe she they don't need her as much i might be stretching here but i'm curious no no if i were a federal prosecutor like i was for many years uh miss maxwell would be a treasure
[27:01]trove of information because i cannot help but believe that jeffrey epstein who knew everybody uh i'm not going to go through all the famous people including
[27:11]uh individuals he knew everybody and if she can provide information to point to illegalities they'll take her cooperation i i know i don't doubt it but had to ask
[27:25]it curious so many questions in this case i could talk about it about for a full hour but i don't have that time aaron keller thank you so much for coming on to break it down and now we have to hit a break because when we come back
[27:35]major stories to talk about so stay tuned we'll be right back right after [Music] this
[27:48]this is a high profile case and people have a lot of feelings about it it is a priority for the court to be transparent in its process so the public can be assured of the fairness
[27:59]of the judicial system the public has a right to access court proceedings and should have the ability to scrutinize the court proceedings even scrutinize
[28:08]what each of us do in our own goals here in the judicial process the court has looked at various ways to balance the constitutional rights of the defendants
[28:18]as well as the public's right to know so as you just heard the judge will allow cameras in the upcoming preliminary hearings for the idaho idaho couple who have been charged in
[28:30]connection with the deaths of the two missing or once missing children now next week chad dabal who's charged with conspiring to and actually destroying or altering evidence uh related to the discovery of the
[28:42]remains of joshua valo and tyler ryan he's going to have his preliminary hearing the week after that is going to be the preliminary hearing for his wife lori valodebel who is also facing
[28:52]similar conspiracy charges terry austin let me start with you what can we expect from chad dabel's preliminary hearing because it's my understanding that we are going to hear from at least
[29:04]two fbi agents who apparently worked with the local rexburg police department in assisting uh with this case but what are you looking out for well you know monday and tuesday will be
[29:14]a hearing versus in idaho when you've just had the conferences which are setting the trial dates etc with the hearing we are going to get witnesses who are going to talk about the evidence that
[29:26]they can put against the defendant and here you know it will be chad davil so i think we're going to get some substantive information i think we're going to hear what the fbi has to say
[29:37]what the police has gathered so i think we're going to see more in this hearing than we've seen so far in the preliminary conferences for both of these cases but for chad on monday
[29:49]and tuesday gene we have an interesting situation where we have the preliminary hearing for want for the husband and then a few days later the preliminary hearing
[30:00]for lori val the wife is it possible or typically something might happen in one preliminary hearing that could affect what happens in the other preliminary hearing
[30:11]oh sure absolutely one thing you will not hear at these preliminary hearings you're not going to hear from either defendant but the thing about a preliminary hearing
[30:21]is hearsay hearsay hearsay's admissible so you may not have a lot of witnesses for the government none for the defense you'd be crazy to put on a defense at a prelim
[30:32]but for the government you're going to have a lot of witnesses who summarize the testimony of others can that help the other preliminary hearing possibly
[30:43]i'd rather go second than first because at the first you're going to see the cards put on the table by the government and if you're representing miss valeo
[30:53]valo you'll have more opportunity for cross-examination in obtaining further discovery look what i'm looking out for is really to see new details that we don't
[31:04]know yet i also want to see if melanie gibb who's a central figure in this case is she's going to be there if she's going to be called as a witness because again it's alleged that lori and chad turn to her to lie to the police in
[31:15]order to cover up and so i'm curious to see these things we'll wait and see long prime will broadcast that i encourage everyone to check it out now i do want to turn to a major case that's
[31:25]happening you might have heard of it if not take a listen to this it's actually legal history in the making the doj has officially set the date for the first federal execution of a native american
[31:37]lesmon mitchell who was convicted of 11 crimes including murdering a grandmother and her granddaughter he is set to die by lethal injection on august 26th now here's the problem the
[31:48]navajo nation which he belongs to disagrees with this and under federal law the government can't execute someone for capital murder on native lands without their consent
[31:58]so that's a big problem now his lawyers have said that the government has tried to find a loophole around this they have made consistent efforts to block this execution
[32:08]and one of their main arguments is that they're saying that his jury trial his jury might have been racially biased that's big accusation one of the last times we heard from his attorneys
[32:20]was when they argued in front of the ninth circuit court of appeals back in december and you're going to hear where they say we need more time to investigate this jury so who you're about to hear from is
[32:29]his attorney take a listen i i know the court's aware of this already but i'm going to point out that this is the only federal capital prosecution of a native american in the modern history of this country
[32:40]like the jury selection in this case resulted in a jury of 11 white people and only one native american but you you appealed all those issues and and lost on them uh i'm sorry to say
[32:51]uh i wish the government had not decided to to bring this capital case over the objections of the navajo nation but it did and all we're all we're here today is about there's
[33:03]the 60b emotion so why does any of that uh raise a significant uh prospect of racial bias because i recall the district judge in
[33:14]this case asked each of the jurors to certify that they had decided the case without regard to racial bias yes your honor that's that's there's a standard in a portion of the federal death penalty act but i would just would
[33:25]remind the court that that certification is individual to each juror so that what the juror is certifying is that juror herself wasn't motivated by racial bias it doesn't speak to anyone else
[33:36]well i guess i'm asking other than the general background of the case is there something that occurred during the case or during the juror deliberations that that you can hang your hat on to say that's a significant show
[33:47]this this is exactly the problem your honor is that we haven't had the ability to investigate this and and so because of the supreme court mandates of heightened reliability and anti-arbitrariness
[33:58]we need to be able to investigate i i can't answer your question because i haven't been allowed to investigate okay now terry this is an interesting legal argument here the fact that the government apparently
[34:10]is saying well we are going to execute him on the carjacking charge not the capital murder charge because as i said under federal law you would need the navajo tribe's consent to have someone executed for
[34:21]capital murder that's an interesting legal loophole what do you make of it i think that that loophole circumvents the intent and spirit of the law
[34:31]as much as i think this is a case where capital punishment is warranted he murdered the grandmother he slit the throat of the granddaughter in front of you know they
[34:42]were together and it's a horrific crime but i do think that trying to get around the fact that you have to have agreement with the navajo community
[34:52]and that here they didn't get the agreement and they are looking to a lesser crime of carjacking to impose the capital punishment i think is as i said circumventing the
[35:04]law and i don't think that that should be upheld gene we've seen last minutes days of execution
[35:13]august 26 is pretty soon you tell me are we going to see this actually done him actually executed or do you imagine something is going to stop it from happening i think something will stop it from
[35:25]happening and the counselor for the uh he did a great job this is the first execution of a native american and um whether you agree with the death
[35:36]penalty or strongly oppose it if this is the first time a native american has been executed especially over the objections of the navajo you better make sure you're doing it
[35:48]right and i think there's going to be a stay all right well we'll wait and see what happens it's quite the case especially from a legal framework and like you said
[35:58]no love lost for mr mitchell but it is an interesting legal argument all right everybody we have to take a quick break stay tuned we have a lot
[36:04]more for you and welcome back to long crime now everybody we're actually going to continue
[36:15]the conversation of elaine maxwell on the release of these all previously sealed documents because joining us surprise guest emeritus harvard law professor alan dershowitz is with us professor
[36:27]great to have you here well thank you so much for having me on you know i have not refused to answer a single question ever put to me by the media about these accusations against me because i have
[36:38]nothing to hide i did nothing wrong and i can prove it so ask away okay well that's quite the introduction
[36:48]so let me ask you so you seem to be not surprised by this release not nervous about this release in any way do you think there was something in the documents that clears you
[36:59]of course that's why i asked for it let me tell you my accuser has tried to deep six all these documents i wanted them out i went to court and asked to have them out i went to the fbi
[37:10]i went to the u.s attorney i told them about this woman and how she was falsely accusing me i finally after great effort got the emails
[37:20]unsealed and the manuscript unsealed which she tried to deep six in which she admits essentially that she never met me in the emails she's told by a friend
[37:32]include dershowitz in your book although we know he didn't do anything wrong there's no proof of anything he's famous he did reversal of fortune and if you mention him in the book it'll help you sell the book
[37:43]so she then mentions me in the manuscript as someone who she did not have sex with she mentions former majority leader george mitchell i had sex with him
[37:55]she mentions a professor at harvard named steven i had sex with him she goes through the whole list of people she has sex with and then she said yeah and i once saw dershowitz talking to epstein but she doesn't
[38:07]include me among the people she had sex with and her own lawyers and this is the key point her own lawyers have admitted david boy is on tape that it would be impossible for me to
[38:19]have met with her and that she's wrong simply wrong her other lawyer brad edwards said it's investigated let me just get to one specific incident
[38:29]she said in one of the documents the first time the first time i was with alan dershowitz was in new york so i was actually sent over to him what do you make of that totally false
[38:39]i never met her in my life look he can make up anything she told the fbi who she had sex with she never mentioned me she had a book she never mentioned me then she meets her lawyers
[38:50]her lawyers pressure her according to her best friend to mention me for money and then she accuses me now it's easy to accuse somebody she has no evidence she has no proof
[39:00]i said from day one i hope there are photographs i hope there are videotapes i hope there is all kind of evidence that's why i want all the evidence to come out because i know the evidence will prove
[39:11]that i never met her her own lawyer bradley edwards said she lied by accusing prominent people and leslie westner she says
[39:22]that she had sex with lex lee wexner on numerous occasions brad edwards said no leslie wexner is telling the truth when he says he never had sex with her if her own
[39:32]lawyers don't believe her why should the media believe her why should anybody believe her this is a serial liar who's lied about al gore and tipagore al gore and tippagore
[39:43]she accuses of cavorting with epstein on the island al gore and tipigor never met epstein they didn't know epstein professor schwitz let me let me ask you this let me ask you this there's it's suspected
[39:54]that they're going to be more documents released including elaine maxwell's deposition are you concerned about what she said in her deposition of course not if she tells the truth i'm
[40:05]not concerned about anybody who tells the truth and i'm not concerned about gillane i'm not concerned about goof ray who lies because i can prove she lied my goal is to get her indicted for perjury remember
[40:17]she committed perjury in the same trial that gallane maxwell committed perjury elaine maxwell was prosecuted for perjury and guffray should be prosecuted for perjury she
[40:27]told the fbi she was 15 when she met epstein the records from mar-a-lago where she worked proved she was 17 when she met epstein she claims that she knows that
[40:38]bill clinton was flown to the island by elaine maxwell on a helicopter shortly after glenn maxwell got her pilot's license with secret service agents secret service agents
[40:49]absolutely categorically deny it and the f the the secret service reports prove that the story is false she's just made up story after story she's accused they had barack she's accused george mitchell she's
[41:01]accused bill richardson she's accused um aside from coming on and and making statements which we expected and which is what we understood that there would be a statement from you
[41:13]in regards to the release what else do you plan to do if you can tell us in your mind to correct this wrongdoing that you believe was asserted i'm suing her for defamation i'm suing
[41:23]david boyce for defamation there will be jury trials honest people citizens of new york will hear all the evidence they won't read twitter they'll just hear the evidence
[41:34]and they'll see this is a woman with a long history of lying about prominent people for money she'll see my travel records which make it impossible i could not have been in the places
[41:45]she said i was during the time she said i was there they will conclude help us understand because people are still trying to understand the connections here what is the connection let's put virginia dufrey on the side
[41:55]what is the connection that you have with elaine maxwell what is that relationship speak about it because clearly you knew her at some point i met her i was introduced to her by the lady
[42:06]rothschild evelyn rothchild's wife um i was introduced to her i met her probably between six or seven times mostly with my wife we were with her
[42:17]uh and my wife uh on a couple of occasions uh i saw her booking passage for me when i was epstein's lawyer she was like his secretary
[42:27]or maybe even before that but i never saw her do anything improper in fact i volunteered to be a witness in her case when she was sued by
[42:37]virginia gouffrey i wanted to testify to show that virginia gray shouldn't be believed and remember virginia griffrey is at the center of this but the interesting thing is the federal government isn't relying on gouffrey
[42:49]for their indictment of maxwell they start before she met before gruff ray met epstein and then they conclude after gouffrey left but during the
[42:59]period that goof ray was with epstein the indictment doesn't indict her for anything during that let me ask you this professor we only have about a minute left is there anybody in your opinion based
[43:10]that she is accused that should be concerned that there might be allegations asserted there that might have more weight nobody should be concerned about being accused by virginia gufrey she does not
[43:22]understand the difference between truth and lies nothing she says about anybody should be believed if there's evidence if there's corroboration
[43:32]then people should be concerned but just based on her word no nobody should believe a word she says she's lied about everything she has a history of lying
[43:44]and she continues to lie and she's a perjury and about 30 seconds left what do you make of the the charges that are uh levied against elaine
[43:54]maxwell with about 10 seconds sorry timing was off well i don't think they're very strong they go back 25 years and then the second are based on perjury in a civil case which is rarely the
[44:05]basis for criminal prosecution and if it is it ought to be directed as well at goofray because she testified falsely in the same deposition same series of depositions thank you for giving me an
[44:15]opportunity to tell the truth professor dershowitz thank you for coming on we appreciate it and everyone out there thank you for uh turning on to long crime now what a show very unpredictable but thank you uh
[44:26]listen everybody until we meet next time i want to thank my guests appreciate it have a great night you