[0:00]what we're looking at right now is a very very perplexing crime scene and detectives right now are looking at this as a possible
[0:11]murder and uh but we don't know for sure so again because of the uh the complexity the U complex crime
[0:22]scene uh we can't say for sure what we have breaking news this morning in the murder of pregnan teen Savannah stto police making two arrests in connection
[0:32]with her death and part of the Epstein list has been released and we have the latest on the high-profile names in those documents plus the third man
[0:43]charged in connection to Crystal Rogers murder in court today asking for Bond it's all coming up next plus more right here on opening [Music]
[0:58]statements [Music] good Thursday morning to you friends and welcome to opening statements I'm your host Julie Grant and if you're new to the show well welcome I think you'll
[1:10]find it a lot like the actual opening statements at trial that's how this show was designed to give you all the information you need to get you primed and ready to go for the big cases that
[1:20]we're covering on court TV live that are at trial and all the major cases that are making headlines and have people talking in the world of True Crime I like to think of show is kind of coffee
[1:31]and Court we get you all warmed up and ready for the day ahead so right now it's time for you to grab a cup of coffee because it's time for my opening
[1:41][Music] statement gun ownership in America is a constitutional right that carries with it tremendous responsibility in the
[1:52]criminal case against Oxford Michigan School shooters parents the facts alleged show anything but responsible behavior January 23rd is the date set
[2:04]for the trial of James and Jennifer Crumbley and the court has allowed their cases to be severed and we don't know who the state will choose to try first but either way the case of involuntary
[2:14]manslaughter and four counts of it for each of those precious students who were murdered is being brought against both James and Jennifer crumblyy now the
[2:25]state of Michigan is forcing responsibility on them for the heinous actions of their son Ethan and I say
[2:35]bravo bravo I applaud the Oakland County prosecutor for holding them legally accountable as well on the facts that those investigators uncovered like the
[2:46]fact that police say Dad bought the gun for the son lied on the Forum at the gun shop said the gun was for him but then gave it to his Disturbed and dangerous
[2:57]15-year-old who then posed with his new present on social media police say when Ethan Crumbley was searching for ammunition when he should have been paying attention in class and
[3:08]the teacher caught him his mother told him that she wasn't mad at him and to not get caught next time and how about the morning of the shooting when their
[3:19]son creates that Sinister drawing of a shooting and writes how he needs help because the thoughts won't stop prosecutors say his parents then refused
[3:30]to take him home insisting that he stay in school with his backpack that they didn't bother to
[3:41]check even though police say they kept the firearm unsecured in their home throw the book at them that is what
[3:52]I say I am sick and tired of these School shooters and I am so glad that the Oakland County prosecutor is taking action to hold every everybody that the state believes had a part in it
[4:03]responsible it seems to me that the crumblies will learn about responsible gun ownership the hard
[4:11]way as my friends we never forget those four beautiful innocent children who
[4:20]were killed Madison Baldwin Tate Meyer Justin Schilling and Hannah St Juliana that's my opening statement let
[4:31]me know if you like it right now I want to give you what's on your daily [Music] docket oh can't talk because he got in trouble because he got
[4:42]caught it's like give me a break start owning up to what you're doing and then try to fix the problem like we keep telling
[4:53]you all right friends here's a look at some of the cases we're following for you today on court TV live in Florida Tracy farers due in court at 8:30 a.m. for a status hearing and also in Florida
[5:04]we've got a status conference set for 9:00 a.m. for Patricia Ripley that name sounds familiar to you she's the mother who's accused of pushing her autistic son into a canal to drown him and in
[5:16]Kentucky the third alleged co-conspirator in Crystal Rogers Death Steve Lawson is set to have a bond hearing today at 2:30 p.m. and it should be interesting because he said he wants
[5:28]to cooperate we get to all of that but first we want to turn to the major big breaking news we've been waiting for it seems for years and certainly for all of this week as the list of Jeffrey
[5:40]Epstein's Associates has finally been released for more on that let's head out to monana now where we find scripts News correspondent mariss Georgio with the
[5:50]latest for us mariss good morning to you good morning to you Julie you know a couple of things to make clear here there has been so much speculation about
[6:00]a list of people associated with Epstein that will come out that might be incriminating well I want to be clear there's not really just a list of names and just because a name is mentioned in
[6:11]this huge document dump doesn't mean there's anything incriminating against them but we did see about 40 documents released almost a thousand Pages yesterday that shed some new light about
[6:22]the allegations against Epstein and gilain Maxwell his longtime coor but much of it has already been previously reported and that's honestly part of why the judge ordered these to be unsealed
[6:34]but there are hundreds more documents to be released the documents I went through last night included many reminders that Epstein surrounded himself with very high-profile wealthy powerful people we
[6:45]are not going to mention every single name in this document dump but many instances where we see the names we have already seen associated with Epstein thank prince Andrew one deposition goes
[6:55]over specifics of an alleged encounter with him and a puppet for instance uh two former presidents named in this former President Bill Clinton's name also former president Donald Trump in a
[7:05]story about stopping in uh Atlantic City on a plane ride to New York um with with former President Clinton the reason we see so many mentions of his name is
[7:16]because je fre Virginia jafra's lawyers wanted to oppose Clinton as part of her defamation lawsuit saying he was a key person who can provide information about his close relationship with the
[7:27]defendant and Mr Epstein now she didn't make any allegations of wrongdoing against Clinton or Trump and at least two people ask their names to be redacted from this they are for now but that could be reversed later this month
[7:39]and as we know gilain Maxwell is serving a 20-year sentence right now for sex trafficking she is appealing to have that case dismissed but keep in mind whenever news involving Epstein and
[7:49]Maxwell comes out it is very hard on the victims I have spoken to many victims and their attorneys but this all speaks to the Public's fascination with this case
[7:59]and the public wanting to know more about how this could have happened Julie I'm so glad you said that about the victims Mar you're so right that's really what this is all about and
[8:10]hopefully everyone who was wronged can get through it and get the help that they need uh to continue with their lives marit said Georgio always great to see you thank you so much for being live
[8:20]for us this morning take good care I want to bring in now our guest to discuss this further he is a trial attorney he practices both criminal law civil law he's also a law professor at
[8:31]the great Temple University School of Law and he's no stranger to high-profile cases Mr Dante Mills is joining us this morning good morning Dante Happy New
[8:40]Year to you uh can I start please a thank you so much friend uh can I start please with just getting um your I guess
[8:49]most important thoughts on this I loved what Marita said a moment ago about how you know we don't want to think anybody's Guilty By Association here that's not how America runs um what are you thinking this morning
[9:01]what do you think is important for the public to know as we continue to learn about more of these associates of Jeffrey epsteins there's a couple of points that are very important Julian one is I truly
[9:12]believe in our legal system but our system provides innocence until proven guilty these names and some of these names that are listed are going to be new to us but they're not new to the
[9:23]prosecutors and the district attorneys that are involved in this case so you have to believe that they went through all this evidence all of these names before and if there was illegal activity they that they could prove they would
[9:35]have brought charges but now that this list is public and this information is public it's put into the court of public opinion where you don't need to be proven guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt
[9:45]people can make assumptions and I don't know if that's fair to the people that are listed in this list some of them who did not do anything illegal but are going to be deemed Guilty By Association
[9:57]like you just said they may lose endorsements they may they may lose deals because they rode in a plane that epain owned even though they didn't participate in any illegal activity so I
[10:08]think we need to be careful when we go through this list and make those associations people are going to say well Bill Clinton for example was listed in there multiple times and I know that means he was up to something well
[10:18]actually you don't know that because it could be a very uh normal reason why he was taking a plane from one place to another so we have to be careful blaming people people because the blowback these
[10:30]lies people's lives could be affected um their their livelihood can be affected without them being proven guilty of anything the second part to this and is very important are the victims like you
[10:42]just said uh what we want to make sure and what we really want to get out of this is how they were courted how these young women these young girls were courted by Epstein and his associates he
[10:53]did things like sent flowers to uh high school girls when they had uh events and things like that that I think that needs to be the focus I think principles and
[11:03]parents need to look at how these girls recorded to make sure that this doesn't happen again and that we're protecting our children um that's one thing that we can take from all this information
[11:13]that's coming out the ways that they used um these girls to court one another and ways that we can prevent this from happening moving forward you're right Dante you're right we all have a
[11:23]responsibility for our children in society we've got to protect them and pay attention uh to what seems like warning signs better to have an investigated and to say something than to just let it go by and wonder I I have
[11:35]to ask you too Dante tell me looking at it from the perspective of those people that have been named here the famous names uh surely it's probably very upsetting just to be discussed and to
[11:47]have people speculating as you said speculating as if there's been wrongdoing done uh some of the big names David copperfield's name is mentioned the famous hairdresser Frederick fakai
[11:57]uh who sells all those hair products uh Michael Jackson you know let's say for instance you're representing David Copperfield you know and he knows his name's coming out and all this what
[12:07]advice do you give him as his lawyer so with a lot of my high-profile clients what I tell them is you don't want to feed the beast right because people are going to speculate they're
[12:19]going to make assumptions and if you get into defense mode and jump in like for example attorney Allan D which seems to be doing uh he said he wants the whole
[12:29]story out his name was mentioned U but it it it raises more questions like why are you so adamant to talk about this and to to have a back and forth um so I
[12:40]would recommend to my clients in this situation uh not to respond uh to understand that this information has been vetted by uh District Attorneys and prosecutors and if they don't see
[12:51]anything that you've done wrong don't add anything to the story uh and and allow people to kind of shift the focus and move move on to what the priority should be which which is the young girl
[13:02]so I would recommend to my clients in this situation not to go on you know public opinion tour talking about how uh they're not related to him or not linked to him uh because that all that's going
[13:13]to do is bring more speculation and raise more questions great advice Dante thank you for that we want to turn now to this morning's big hearing for defendant Patricia Ripley she's the
[13:25]47-year-old mother who's accused of first-degree murder after police say she pushed her 9-year-old son who had autism into a canal in order to drown him back
[13:37]in 2020 now her first attempt was caught on surveillance video police say it was obtained exclusively by Univision and take a look at this you can see her look
[13:46]at that pushing her boy into the water and then running look at it again and seconds later a nearby
[13:56]resident gets in the water saves Alejandro's life but hours later Ripley reported her son missing alleging that
[14:07]he had been kidnapped she told police that two black men had ambushed her car robbed her and taken Alejandro investigator say the truth is an hour
[14:17]after the first attempt Ripley drowned Alejandro in another canal and today she's doing court at 9:00 a.m. for a status Hearing in her case
[14:29]and we're taking you there live as soon as this hearing Begins for this sickening case we have to hit a break right now but when we come back here on opening statements we're going to be
[14:39]bringing in our power panel as we're breaking down this shocking video watch this of a judge being attacked in her courtroom in
[14:49]Nevada look there it is my goodness we'll have the details on that and the very latest on this morning's breaking news as a father and son have
[15:00]been arrested for the death of pregnant teen Savannah SoDo coming soon to court TV these
[15:12]murders have shaken our community why did you do it the Doom State Prophet Chad davel prosecutors say they will seek the death penalty against him a social media sensation now a suspected
[15:23]killer Karen Reed She's accused of murder she says she's the victim of a police coverup it's scary just knowing that he was so close the high stakes
[15:32]trials you don't want to miss coming soon only on Port TV welcome back and now to what is
[15:44]trending in True Crime want to show you this defendant delone readen at a hearing Wednesday morning in Los Vegas Nevada this is the before image you're
[15:56]seeing on video of him talking to the judge kind of saying his piece before the judge was getting ready to impose his sentence uh charged with aggravated battery with substantial bodily harm but
[16:06]watch what happens when the judge judge Mary hus tells Ren that she is denying his request for probation I appreciate that but I think
[16:19]it's time that he gets a taste of something else because I just can't with that history in accordance with the laws of State ofada Court hey
[16:30][Applause] [Music] my goodness this guy you see there
[16:47]leaping over the bench tackling her honor he could be heard repeatedly punching the judge yelling explosives all well courtroom security attempted to
[16:58]restrain him they eventually did and according to the Las Vegas District Court The Honorable uh judge Hol has suffered some injuries from this incident her condition is being
[17:09]monitored this morning this guy of course is charged uh with that assault on uh the protected person her honor judge Mary hus he's going to be back in court this
[17:21]morning I want to know why this guy was out on bond when he had a very violent criminal history uh three prior felonies a long history of assaultive behavior
[17:32]for those felonies robberies another assault on a member of a protected class that means someone like a judge prosecutor police officer history of domestic violence that's what this instant case was about and the charge
[17:43]was pleaded down it was initially aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and it was being reduced to a battery how does this happen let me bring in our guests get their reactions criminal
[17:54]defense attorney and former prosecutor Michael J Brown is with us also still with us trial attorney and law professor at Temple University School of Law Dante
[18:02]Mills and joining us retired NYPD Deputy inspector and the author of the book want a cop Corey Pages great to have you all this morning as our power
[18:14]panel how does this happen Michael J Brown would you start us off please good morning Julie well listen this is real life this is uh we see a lot of things
[18:24]on television and life imitating art uh but this is real life and and courtrooms can be dangerous uh places because you're dealing with some people who are extremely violent uh and although it's a
[18:36]rare occurrence and the staff at least in our County here in suffi County New York they do a tremendous job these things do happen and luckily they were able to uh subdue this individual before
[18:46]he caused any real harm right I'm sure you all have seen many crazy things in your years of service in the criminal court system but have you ever seen anything like this uh Dante Mills let me
[18:58]me go to you next please thankfully no um but I can tell you this jul as Michael Brown said your clients um if you're a criminal defense
[19:10]attorney they've been charged with crimes some of them actually committed those crimes and are dangerous people uh so there's been times where I'm sitting one I'm sitting next to someone or
[19:20]there's behind me and you're concerned um but you have to rely on the officers in the room uh to protect you to protect the judge I do believe that uh in this situation the fact that he was able to
[19:32]make it to the judge and in fact hurt her I from the report she had to go to the hospital that's something that should never be allowed to happen I know the court staff was paying attention but
[19:42]the fact that he made it up there is very concerning uh but when you're sitting there in that courtroom dealing with people who are charged with crimes and some of them committed those crimes
[19:52]it's a dangerous situation you have to be aware I know when I'm sitting next to my clients I'm keeping I'm keeping focus and I'm keeping that in mind and thankfully it's never happened to me but
[20:02]this is a very bizarre occurrence right thank goodness for that Dante Corey pagis uh tapping into your years of service in law enforcement and knowing that there are people whose jobs in that
[20:13]courtroom are to make sure that ORD is maintained that no one is assaulted I'm wondering if if anybody's going to get caught on the carpet today or sometime
[20:24]later this week uh for um perhaps uh not stopping this uh or maybe stopping it uh in in time before the judge was actually hit uh what do you think about this
[20:35]please Corey well Happy New Year to all of you first of all the second so I looked at this two ways I looked at this as maybe uh and
[20:46]and no take on the judge you know she made a comment right before um she was going into her sentences maybe she should have just did the sentence whatever the sentence was without making
[20:57]it it looks like the comment irked him but she's not at fault for what happened the second thing I look at this from a police Commander standpoint I on my leadership P there's no way shape or
[21:09]form when you look at the you look at the video you can see the court officer standing behind the lawyer why in the
[21:18]world is the uh court officer standing behind the lawyer and not standing next to the defendant so there was a lapse in Security in my estimation you already
[21:28]know the violent history of this gentleman the judge is the only person in the room that knows that she's getting ready to put him in prison so I don't know if she can you know gives
[21:40]that information and said listen I need to make sure that the bay or the court officer is standing right next to the defendant but there was a serious lack in Judgment of the security for that matter for this guy to jump up there
[21:51]like Superman and nobody to grab him and I'm when I'm saying nobody a court officer we watch this on court TV every single day and you'll see you look at the uh you know you look how the court
[22:03]officers are usually standing by the defendant when you look at this you see the defendant the lawyer and then the court officer and between the were chairs and desk it should have never happened it's such an important
[22:14]observation you made thank you so much for that Corey Switching gears a little bit now this story is also trending in True Crime a key witness took the stand Wednesday maybe you saw this friends in
[22:24]the Young Thug Rico trial that we're broadcasting here on court TV here he is this is travius Stevens he's a former codefendant and admitted co-founder of the alleged criminal
[22:34]Enterprise young slime life and Stevens struck up a plea deal with prosecutors in Atlanta in exchange for his testimony he's being asked to uh go into detail
[22:44]about his his past gang involvement and history with YSL and then he gets a deal with his own case and part of the deal is to identify other members in the courtroom let's take a listen to how
[22:55]some of it went anything at all with this how long have you known him um of course before I went to
[23:06]prison I said before I went to prison but like probably 3 years before that and
[23:19]how long have you known sh um I met Shannon and like probably 2014 2013 probably 2014
[23:34]2013 2014 or 23 yeah and what about D's um I actually went to elementary school with
[23:45]him okay and if you saw the whole thing you know it was like pulling teeth to get this guy to say anything I mean it was painful uh and at some points you
[23:55]know humorous maybe to a degree because it was so frustratingly bad um and we know these charges are very serious and also what can happen to someone if they
[24:05]turn States evidence can be serious Corey Pages let me start with you on this please you know we hear the the phrase you know snitches get stitches uh
[24:14]should this guy be in fear for his life here absolutely if if what we U are hearing allegedly the crimes that have been committed and just order to layer
[24:26]the land with g of drugs narcotics and gang you know this is a very very very violent gang set so yes he does have some concern you
[24:37]can see it just with his testimony just the way they was looking at him while he was testifying uh I don't know if they're going to put him in a witness protection program but um he probably
[24:48]are going to have some issues when he get home if in fact there's a conviction and maybe even if not because the code of the streets is you you stay silent
[24:58]you talk something happens to you m right right Dante Mills let me go to you next please um we know there were numerous defendants initially charged I
[25:09]believe 28 if my memory serves me correctly and it's like they've dropped like flies because there been so many deals struck up um tell me if you're
[25:18]representing somebody who got a deal uh but there's there's no component to it that requires testimony on behalf of the government
[25:29]they can just kind of go on their way uh what advice do you give them uh when they go to whether it's jail prison or just back out in
[25:39]society they just go on their way um because when you have cases with multiple defendants generally it happens that someone is going to be the first one in and they're going to implicate
[25:51]other people because they're going to try and get themselves out of trouble uh and a lot of times even if you take a plea deal and you do not cooperate there's an assumption that you did and
[26:03]and why did he get that that good of a deal if I'm a good lawyer and I get my client a good deal other people may assume he cooperated because the deal was so good so I just make it clear to
[26:13]them that uh there's not going to be obviously any evidence any testimony that has to happen and you just go about your business and and stop doing what you were doing to get yourself in trouble but not mention it because you
[26:24]could put yourself in danger now the component to this is if you are cooperating and you're testifying you do have to face or or the defendants have the right to face their
[26:33]accuser so you have to show up in court if you're going to cooperate and give this testimony live and that's when it gets real they they they make the deal but then when they have to show up in court and look at the person that
[26:45]they're cooperating against it gets very tough to do that and I think that's what you're seeing here you're exactly right Dante you could cut the tension with a knife Michael J Brown you've served as a
[26:55]prosecutor tapping into those experien you had before going into the private sector now and doing criminal defense work I'm sure you feel for that prosecutor and how you know you make the
[27:05]deal everything's crystal clear and then when push comes to shove it's awful describe for us what that's like to be in the prosecutor's shoes and and suffer that
[27:16]embarrassment yeah well Julie it's it's difficult because what you do is you you have a deal cut with these uh cooperating Witnesses or defendants and and you prep prepare them numerous times
[27:26]you explain cross-exam you explain what you're going to ask on Direct you discuss the strategy and then you put them on the stand and the next thing you know is they they get cold feet um there's very little you can do at that
[27:38]point U they're they're brought into add to your case and and that's the hope is that they they really is the nail in the coffin uh but you do the best you can
[27:48]and you move on to the next Witnesses right yeah you just you know you play the hand you don't and um my goodness I I feel for for those prosecutors it is not easy position to be in uh as we all
[27:59]know uh boy great discussion we got to leave it here for now uh Michael J Brown and Cory PES you're coming with us as we continue in the show Dante Mills we've got to say goodbye a big thank you to
[28:10]you for everything this morning we'll see you soon when we come back after this break our investigators are weighing in on the Savannah Soo case did you hear we've got two arrests now we're
[28:21]going to talk about the allegations made against this fatherson Duo plus the latest on the Crystal Rock rers murder case this one has puzzled the True Crime
[28:31]Community for years and now the third alleged co-conspirator is heading to court today and he wants Bond we'll talk about it [Music]
[28:43]next we are moving closer to trial in the case against doomsday Prophet Chad deel prosecutors say they will seek the death penalty against him investigators have recovered human remains at Chad
[28:53]Dell's residence there's no way Lan I should never go up us his wife Lori valid Bell has already been convicted now will her husband end up with the
[29:03]same fate just so hard to know where the truth ends it's the Doomsday Prophet Chad deel on trial welcome back now to the big
[29:18]breaking news out of Texas that we continue following two arrests have been made for the murders of pregnant teenager Savannah SoDo and her boyfriend the San Antonio Police Department
[29:29]announcing early this morning that 19-year-old Christopher Prado and his father Ramon Prado have been arrested for the murders of Savannah soou and her boyfriend Matthew Gara now police
[29:41]believe that Christopher the son is the one who did the murders that's what they believe and they believe his father just helped him after the fact moving the bodies so their charges are different
[29:52]son charged with murder dad charged with abuse of a corpse now Savannah stto was last seene in mid December one day uh before she was scheduled to be induced
[30:04]she and her boyfriends remains were found Days Later inside of his Kia Optima we've been looking at that video uh since then it's been quite puzzling police are saying this morning that they
[30:15]believe the murders are the result of a drug deal that turned deadly I have two great guests on the program to help me break this all down still with me retired NYPD Deputy inspector and the
[30:26]author of the book once a cop Corey pages and want to welcome in retired FBI special agent Jennifer coffen offer great to see you both this morning thank
[30:36]you for being here oh boy um there has been some speculation that this might have been a drug deal that
[30:46]that went unexpectedly arai and turned fatal uh Jennifer I know you've been following this very very closely I I enjoy following you on Twitter or X always
[30:57]um but you know you've been analyzing this one tell me was this what you expected investigators to find here why or why not please yes I expected it to have to do
[31:09]with a drug deal gone bad I think I said that very early likely Gang Related in terms of the players involved uh clearly when we hear the words uh you know a
[31:21]botch drug deal drug deal gone bad what does that mean what that means is that somebody wasn't living up to their into the bargain either the amount of drugs being sold was off or the money that was
[31:32]being brought was off one of those two things and this isn't just like purchasing you know vitamins from your you know your girlfriend next door this turns deadly and caner dley first of all
[31:44]it was late at night I would believe even though we'll never know but likely Mr preiato was likely Under the Influence so you have people who are under the influence dealing with one
[31:55]another and then you also have that street cred you know the disrespect that when this drug deal went wrong went down and turned deadly all right Jenifer
[32:05]great points I have a clip I want to play and Corey I'm coming to you next after this please this is a clip of Savannah sto's mother who joined uh closing arguments with Vinnie pitan last
[32:17]night and she did the interview with Vinnie before the announcement of the arrest so that came later but here in this clip she's talking about Savannah's relationship with her boyfriend Matthew
[32:27]and of course many of us are wondering uh did did anybody know that that this was going on that he was into these dealings apparently let's watch they had a kind of like a a little
[32:39]rough uh relationship in the beginning um she said it was getting better um they were both looking for for the the baby and we had a baby show for
[32:50]her they were there you know and opening the gifts you know all excited playing games you know it was like any normal
[33:00]couple um I mean brought his know private I don't really know anything about him but I mean my daughter was happy with
[33:09]him she said she didn't really know anything about him so who knows uh the extent of what she knew or didn't know about these activities uh Cory pigis you
[33:19]have such unique experience because I you retired from the NYPD after many years of service at such a high rank and your story I have mad respect for when you were young and you talk openly about this you talk about it in your book when
[33:31]you were young before you you know went into the military and became a police officer you know you were on the streets dealing drugs and so you have a really interesting perspective of the dangers
[33:41]of it and for anybody who might think oh I can dabble in this or be associated with someone dabbling in it or have a family member associated with it um
[33:51]these risks are of of you know fatal incidents are are very very um real are they not uh would you speak to that please
[34:01]Corey oh it's very real um being in the street is even dead or in jail so you know I call an old drug dealer if you got more than five years and you old you
[34:11]you're like ancient U usually if you getting two to three years out there selling drugs you made a little money you better Escape because now all you know cops are just using this thing
[34:21]right here they're solving crimes very quickly let me just touch on one of the things the mother said I was uncomfortable with her saying there was a normal relationship well I don't know what's normal with her daughter being in
[34:33]this relationship with this known drug deal or I think they had a domestic violence history if I'm not mistaken um and you have to know what your children
[34:42]are doing I remember when I um my two older daughters were teenagers and they w at locks on the bedroom door and I was like you're not paying no rent what do
[34:52]you mean locks on the door you know can't no bedrooms have locks on them and I used to put money in a dresser um so they knew that I was going through their dresser drawer or I was going through
[35:03]their book bag like you have to know what your children are doing so I don't think it's anything normal with somebody dealing with somebody who has a violent past and also assaulted the child at one
[35:14]time I love that I love what you said there and and let's get keep going on this point I mean look I mean this is so sad that these young people lost their
[35:23]lives that unborn baby um you know killed also I'm sure we can expect charges coming with respect to the baby that hadn't been born yet but tell me what can parents do if somebody's
[35:34]watching this program this morning we know that drug use uh drug dealing you know sadly it's it's very common uh we we have a lot of problems in our country with it I don't have to tell you both that you know um what advice do you have for any parents who might suspect
[35:46]something's going on with the kids uh Jennifer let me go back to you on that point please well you know it becomes very difficult especially in this situation
[35:56]where your child is 18 years old like Savannah was so she's really a a grown adult if you will legally um but I I think all you can do really early on is
[36:08]show extreme not extreme show discipline and show extreme love and those two usually make a combination for keeping
[36:18]children out of this but I'm one to surveil I'm one to know exactly what my children were doing I definitely surveil them
[36:27]and I tell you you know the joke was oh my gosh we're going over to coffin daers that's the FBI mom look out and I can't tell you how many times I had the ear
[36:38]you know the cup on the ear up against my sons and there'd be a girl in there like open the door get out of here so I
[36:47]think it really takes that close you know that close uh looking out for and knowing what your children are doing M
[36:57]it does no I mean Bravo uh to you both you knowing what your kids are doing that surveillance and you know and the way you do it like Corey said I love you know dropping some money in the door so that they open uhoh dad was here he's
[37:08]looking at what's going on uh it's good for for them to know and uh keep them close and I love what you said there Jennifer you know striking that balance between you know being strict having rules uh and then and then also showing
[37:19]them love uh so s and heartbreaking for these families got to leave it there a big thank you to you both for Lending us your expertise on this one piges Jennifer coffen doer thank you both
[37:29]kindly when we come back after this break we're going to look ahead to today's bond hearing for defendant Steve Lawson so this guy is being accused of being a co-conspirator helping after the
[37:41]fact in the murder of Crystal Rogers and he's hoping to get Bond he wants to cooperate we'll talk about it next tonight on court TV these are the
[37:54]big cases that everyone is talking about a lot of new developments taking place shocking I know who killed John
[38:03]banan to say the least you cannot make this stuff up it's unreal the scene of the double murders is behind us right here things are happening the investigation is continuing closing
[38:14]arguments with Vinnie pitan tonight at 87 Central only on Port [Music]
[38:24]TV welcome back to opening statement now it's time for what is tipping the scales of justice so we have a bond hearing set to happen later this afternoon for
[38:34]defendant Steven Lawson the 53-year-old father is facing conspiracy charges in charges of tampering with physical evidence in connection to The
[38:44]Disappearance of Crystal Rogers she disappeared back in July of 2015 last scene at the farm of her then boyfriend Brooks Hal let's take a listen together
[38:56]to Lawson at an arraignment hearing just a couple weeks ago I'd like to acknowledge the identity of the defendant Stephen Eugene Lawson on
[39:07]camera will wave formal uh arraignment way formal reading of this indictment and a rep of not guilty to
[39:18]indictment number 23 cr165 count1 and 23 CR 371 count 1
[39:27]move the court file motions out of time and ask the court to consider reduction in bond at this time if not
[39:39]set a special hearing for a bond reduction hearing okay so this hearing today is going to be the bond reduction hearing and to put this all in
[39:49]context Steven Lawson has been someone that uh has indicated to law enforcement long before he was charged that he wanted to cooperate and um give any
[40:00]information he had says that he wasn't involved in Crystal Rogers murder um but police charged him and that seemed kind of stunning to him and so it should be interesting today if there's still going
[40:12]to be a a an offer to cooperate and maybe police just don't need his help maybe they they don't want his help maybe they think they can make the case out without it so who is this guy we
[40:23]know he's connected to Brooks H Crystal Rogers then boyfriend let's take a look at the moment where Brooks H is in the interview room with the police detective
[40:33]and then there's a call to Steven Lawson who is Steve Lawson he's some works for me what did I tell you you
[40:42]told me that you would call what's her name Kati or whatever she hand hand all that Crystal cryst okay I apologize all oh boy let's talk about
[40:58]what's ahead for Mr Lawson here I want to bring in criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Michael J Brown okay Michael is there some hope for this guy in still potentially getting a deal
[41:08]even though he hoped the charges wouldn't be filed but we know they've been Julie it's a little strange because apparently and the lawyer gave this up that he had met with the federal
[41:20]authorities the state authorities the District Attorney's Office many times so that means to me that there was a Co operation agreement he He was discussing all of the uh details of this case his
[41:31]involvement and the involvement of the other uh defendants and it fell apart because if if it hadn't Fallen apart I don't think you would have seen him standing in a courtroom being charged
[41:40]with with the crimes uh now the next issue is well could they then use him down the road maybe but it's unlikely because now he's kind of Tainted in the sense that he probably wasn't truthful
[41:52]all of these notes of the conversations and the meetings would be turned over to the defense attorneys on the other cases and if he wasn't truthful and honest and forthcoming then he really becomes uh
[42:02]very invaluable as a witness during the course of this trial oh great points Michael I I am just so puzzled by this we know that there's a relationship with
[42:13]him and Brooks H uh so we know there's somewhat of a friendly relationship or maybe part business part friendship whatever it is and we know Steven Lawson's son Joseph Lawson's also charged her he was the first charge
[42:25]announc and it was very very weird like this seemed to kind of come out of left field because we know that Brooks Hal was the guy under the microscope for so long uh as kind of the suspect in the minds of many in the True Crime
[42:37]Community but never charged so uh here you've got this father and son who are being accused of helping after the fact uh helping after the fact with the
[42:46]removal of the car uh or whatever else police allege might have occurred here um tell me Michael what advice would you give to Steven Lawson uh today let's say
[42:58]you're his attorney and and you're still hoping to maybe get those charges withdrawn or offer some sort of cooperation what do you do today before the judge at the bond
[43:09]hearing oh in terms of the bail application which is what I think you're referring to Julie I absolutely would stress a couple of things number one is this is a 2015 incident my client had
[43:19]gone to the authorities he's lived in the same home he's been in the community he's been functioning working being productive and he has not fled and that's the ultimate issue uh at least
[43:29]here in New York and I think in Kentucky U I don't know if there's a pre preventive detention component to their bail uh request but the main issue is only is always uh risk a flight is the
[43:41]defendant going to return to court to the fruition of this case so so the answer is and I always say this to judges the proof is in the pudding he's here he's been around he hasn't gone anywhere so the bail should be
[43:52]significantly lower I couple that argument with the fact that he has cooperated he has volunteer information he's been Cooperative so those two things judge I would ask you to reduce
[44:03]the bail let him be at his Liberty but but obviously impose a a reasonable bail that would ensure his appearance in court but the $500,000 bond that may be too much right Michael uh great
[44:15]arguments uh I would hope his council is going to make those arguments that you made for us this morning on opening statements we'll watch this hearing uh together when it happens live on court TV today Michael J Brown always a
[44:26]pleasure to have you on the show thank you so much