[0:02][Music] and welcome back to long prime now
[0:18]everybody I'm Jesse Weber and thanks for joining us let's start right now with Johnny Depp's libel trial out in the UK you might have heard about this one he is suing the publisher of the Sun for an
[0:29]article that was published back in 2018 claiming that he was a wife beater that he was physically violent with his ex Amber Heard now not only does Depp vehemently deny any of these allegations
[0:41]but he is claiming that he is the victim of abuse now during the course of this trial has been going on for several days we are learning some frightening yeah I guess is a good way to explain it some
[0:51]frightening details about the couple but before we even get into that let's go back to when the audio recordings between Depp and heard were released and this one in particular is
[1:02]about allegedly a violent altercation
[1:05]take a look in the relationship because
[1:15]you keep splitting I'm not gonna be in a physical fucking altercation with you then don't you fucking hit me last night
[1:24]you're fucking come on you cannot act like that's about that well on a plane I can't spit no and you hit back so don't act like you don't fucking for this if I
[1:35]pushed you I'm not gonna get into the details that fight you and I both know that you split when there is no physical violence and that you do it at meet I
[1:47]like it the very beginning of fights these days and if you split and you go into a different room and you don't actually leave that house it does nothing but perpetuate the fight really
[1:57]really split on me how do you feel when I leave you in the other room you said Amy getting me a room I mean getting another room in a hotel it's just the
[2:07]same thing when did I get you text even or Nathan and in Toronto
[2:15]to get you another room alright let's go to my all-star lineup for this evening joining me as long Prime's own Terry Austin criminal defense attorney Imran
[2:26]Ansari an attorney and legal journalist joy Lim in Akron it's great to have everybody here Imran want to start with you you know he's been on the stand for a few days and he's been subject to cross-examination
[2:38]the big question is he winning right now because yeah we're gonna talk about some of the explosive details that came forward but you know when you're looking
[2:46]at this is he winning this case well you know listen this is something which is definitely catching the headlines all the sordid details of their relationship
[2:57]is sort of being put forth in court and across the world in the press now for defamation truth is an absolute defense
[3:06]it's the ultimate defense and the end all defense to defamation so what the son is trying to do here is show that Johnny Depp was an abusive husband is he
[3:17]winning well I think with this recording you know it's not conclusive and I don't think we have any conclusive evidence yet on the record that Johnny Depp actually was physically violent with
[3:29]Amber Heard we're hearing about all these juicy why I will say I will say he did admit he did admit to I guess accidentally head-butting her and joy I want to turn to you because here's the
[3:41]problem that I have with this if this whole case is about to restore his reputation and that's really what a big part of this is there's so much dark stuff coming out of this case from
[3:52]everything from like I just said to him allegedly head-butting Amber Heard to what we heard yesterday that either Amber Heard or her friend allegedly
[4:01]defecated on their bed that he supplied his then thirteen-year-old daughter with marijuana that you know you're listening to this is this trial whatever
[4:12]the result may be is it going to end up hurting Johnny Depp and his reputation maybe if even he didn't sue the son in the first place of a son's publisher yeah that's that's a really valid
[4:24]question and I guess his hope would be just that in in what he sees its offending himself he's gonna provide some context to all of this because although Hurd is claiming that death abused her I mean
[4:36]Deb is saying hey look I was actually defending myself and we have seen accusations against her in the past I believe it was 2009 she was charged with assaulting her girlfriend at the time so
[4:47]I guess Johnny Depp's theory and the theory of his legal team would would likely be look we've got to provide some context to all of this and hopefully that that's a way to restore his
[4:57]reputation and in their minds at the very least it's such an ugly relationship I want to play another portion of this recording where as I said Depp says that he is the victim and
[5:09]if you look at social media there's a giant following in support of Johnny Depp that he shouldn't be having to answer for anything he did nothing wrong listen said this back and forth between
[5:19]him and Amber Heard you don't even know what you're talking about you saw me you told me what it is but run with it you I have told you what it is no you have I said to Travis I said no I said to you
[5:30]hey tell Travis what just happened I said no telling which is that why and that you punched me in the fucking thing
[5:41]and you in the face and you said oh fuck it didn't what the fuck are you talking about and I want to lie and then I sent you and the way you I'm sorry that I didn't
[5:52]you across the face in a proper spot but I was hitting you who's not punching you but you're not punched don't tell me what it feels like to be punched you know when you fucking have a closed fist
[6:10]punch you I did not fucking deck you I'm fucking was hitting you you can I don't know what the motion of my actual hand
[6:19]what would your fine how are your toes you're bitching about it am i you are oh that's a difference between me and you
[6:31]you're fucking baby because you started because physical fights yeah you did so how do you fuck out of there yes
[6:42]you did so you did the right thing the big thing you know what you're admirable
[6:48]every single time we were still being
[6:56]admirable right just by running away and you can see hearing and call me names but you could call the name and what do you do that's the last insult you're a
[7:07]baby you're a poor critic you don't do anything that you actually do you expect from people you can't give them alright Terry over to you as I said there's been
[7:19]a big online support for Johnny Depp in light of these kind of recordings coming out and things that we're hearing that he is the one being abused and I know that we're showing these photos of him
[7:29]allegedly abusing her and her alleged abusing him how is this going to play into this case when you hear these kinds of things I mean she just said because I'm not hitting you I'm not punching I'm hitting you I don't really know what the
[7:40]difference is but when we're talking about this legal case how is that gonna factor in you know I think the reason you see so many people following him is because he's a huge star he's been in so
[7:51]many movies Pirates of the Caribbean you know he's someone that people really like and when they listen to these videos it does seem as though amber is
[8:02]the one who's instigating it certainly is a very volatile relationship she admits in that piece that we just heard that she started it so you know I think there is some sympathy for him the only
[8:13]thing I will say though is he is the one who's brought these actions so he is the one who's showing the world what's going on inside of their marriage I'm glad you
[8:25]mentioned that Imran is it easier to prove and win a libel case in the UK than it is in the u.s. that's my first part and then the second part he still
[8:36]has a 50 million dollar defamation lawsuit against Amber Heard here in the US that's going to be heard next years so my question is a is it easier to win in the UK and if he wins in the UK how
[8:47]will that might affect the case in the United States again Amber Heard well the law the law of libel and defamation is a essentially a
[8:57]common-law tort so we here in the United States get our common law from the UK so the law is very similar both in the UK
[9:06]and the u.s. essentially truth is an absolute defense to a claim of defamation so Johnny Depp will have to
[9:16]show that the the falsity essentially of being called a wife-beater and how do you do that well that's where you bring in this whole underlying case so all the
[9:26]sort of details of their relationship of these allegations of abuse will have to come out essentially the son will have to show that Johnny Depp is in fact a
[9:36]wife-beater they're going to prevail on their defense how it's going to come out and how it's going to play out on the defamation case here in the United States against Amber Heard well the
[9:46]determination and that Court is clearly going to have some bearing on what's going to happen here in the United States so if those allegations of abuse
[9:57]are found to be false in the UK case it's going to have some comport obviously and what's going to happen here in the States again a defamation case right the law of summation
[10:08]common-law both in the States and the UK very similar I I know it's not easy enjoy we've about 30 seconds left we believe that some of his exes Johnny Depp's Exxon's are gonna testify on his
[10:20]behalf including Winona Ryder presumably to say that he doesn't get physically violent how's that gonna play out I mean not only Winona Ryder who of course has her own following and a lot of
[10:31]credibility for that reason and vanessa paradis says well i mean the fact that he has invited his exes to testify as to his history and his character and
[10:41]basically to claim hey he's not a wife-beater i think i think is is going to be very favorable for him this trial can't get more star-studded
[10:52]more ridiculous the things that we're hearing are quite strange and we will continue to follow it but when we come back we have to focus on a major case here in the United States new video and audio has been released in the
[11:03]on a Taylor case we'll be back welcome
[11:17]back everybody on to Brianna Taylor who was the EMT out of hoop out of Louisville Kentucky who was killed by police after they executed a no-knock search warrant and this has become
[11:27]highly controversial because they believed that there were drug operations going on in the apartment even though there was no evidence to ultimately support that now new audio and video has been released first we're going to get
[11:38]into the audio this is from police interviews that were conducted with Kenneth Walker who's Brianna Taylor's boyfriend and he opened fire on the officers he was originally charged with
[11:49]attempted murder that charge was dropped and you're gonna hear from Sergeant Jonathan Mattingly who was the one that was shot by Taylor I assume he was shot
[11:58]by a Kenneth Walker and he led the team into that apartment now a little bit later we're also going to show you video of the moments after this shooting that led into Walker's arrest but first let's
[12:10]get into the Walker interview and I want you to listen very carefully to how he describes the moments before police knocked in the door Sarris loud boom at the door first thing
[12:22]she says who is it no response so we like what the heck we both get up start putting on clothes another knock at the door she's like who
[12:31]is it loud at the top of her lungs no response so I'm like what the heck so then I grab my gun which is legal like I'm licensed to carry everything I've
[12:42]never even fired my gun outside of a range I'm scared to death so she says there's another knock at the door she's yelling at the top of her lungs and I am
[12:51]- at this point who is it no answer no response no anything so we like what the heck we both just see what happened grab the nearest thing he's aren't even mine
[13:02]he's hers like so we bow for just putting on something to go answer the door and see who's knocking at door this late at night so when we come out when
[13:13]we get and whatever life walking towards the door but like the door like comes like off the hinges so I just let off one
[13:23]shot like I still can't see who it is or anything so now the doors like flying open up one shot and then all of a sudden there's a whole lot of shots and
[13:33]like we both just drop to the ground and the gun like feel like right over there like because I'm like scared to death like now like seeing lights and
[13:44]stuff so I was looking ok it's the police and there's a lot of yelling and stuff so there's just shooting like we're both on the ground and went out a
[13:55]shot stop I'm like panicking she's right there on the ground like bleeding Terry
[14:07]I want to start with you because Mattingly says that police did knock a bunch of times we have this differing account here on whether police ultimately identified themselves he said
[14:17]that they did Mattingly said that they did identify themselves multiple times but what you just heard from Walker was a completely different story how do you view these two differing accounts you
[14:28]know here's what I'll say about that when we hear Walker it is immediately after the event so when that happens it's far more credible than when
[14:38]Mattingly was interviewed two weeks later with his lawyer having already spoken to the Union knowing exactly what he should say so if we have a
[14:47]discrepancy in what occurred at this point in time based on the evidence that we've seen thus far I'm leaning in favor of Kenneth Walker I believe that they
[14:57]knocked and they rammed because they both said that but as far as what was said I don't believe that the police in any way shape or form identified
[15:07]themselves and that's why we ended up in this situation emraan a walker apparently said that when he was being driven one of the woman when he was
[15:19]apprehended one of the officers said I just wanted to let you know right now we had a misunderstanding and Walker had said it seems like to me they realized they were
[15:28]wrong place what do you think about that well in my opinion that's an admission and that evidence coming into court if
[15:39]this is going to in fact get into a courtroom would be very probative it would be showing that the officers have made an admission that they made a mistake they were at the wrong location
[15:49]perhaps they they acted on a no-knock warrant in a manner which led to unfortunately someone's death and I think there's gonna be really credibility issues with the officers if
[16:00]they're going to now come into court and give a different story so again a credibility determination is gonna have to be made and I think this quote really bring to do a question a
[16:11]credibility issue if they come into court and say something else remember none of the officers have been criminally charged here and I want to go now to Sergeant Jonathan Mattingly okay
[16:22]he was interviewed as Terry said two weeks later after the shooting after he got out of the hospital he had an attorney present Walker by all accounts did not have an attorney he was interviewed the night of the shooting so
[16:32]listen to what happens how he describes after the officers ultimately knocked in the door at that point lieutenant over said go ahead and hit it
[16:40]so I looked at Mike said go ahead so he hits the first time it hits right on the door handle and didn't didn't move the door and every time he hits people are announcing police search warrant police
[16:51]search warrant second time he hits he is the good spot and it almost knocks the door open you can see I could see the deadbolt at an angle and I could see a
[17:02]crack and the door into the leading into the apartment so I said this one's gonna go so he hit the third time and as soon as he hit the door came out there young police search more and please search
[17:12]warrant I go to round the corner I could see clear the the living room on the right-hand side where you can see the
[17:20]sliding glass door as I turn the corner as soon as I cleared the threshold of the front door I could see down the
[17:30]hallway my mind went just your mind works so quick in the situation is unreal because as soon as I cleared it face on about probably 20 feet away right down the hallway
[17:42]there's a bedroom door on the right and there's a male and a female the male's closest to the door switch to my right and as I turned the doorway he's in a
[17:52]stretched-out position with his hands with a gun and as soon as I clear he fires boom and it was almost like at the shooting range were two two things flip at the same time and you got to shoot no
[18:04]shoot I mean they were like shoulders shoulder my mind's going this ain't right thumbs off here because all the doors I made entry and I've never seen this and so I hit this corner and he
[18:15]goes boom and as soon as the soon as a shot hit I could feel the heat in my leg and so I just returned fire I got four rounds off and it was like simultaneous
[18:26]boom boom boom boom boom and then I went back and went down on the side of the door and then reached around I think I got two more off around the corner of the door and then I could really feel the blood in my legs so I reached out
[18:37]and felt it my hand was full blood and I knew it and hit my femoral at that point joy when you listen to this do you think one of the things that maybe prosecutors are wrestling with and one of the
[18:48]reasons why we haven't seen any criminal charges levied against the officers is because this might be a situation of a tragic mistake on both sides where both
[18:58]sides believed the other was a credible and legitimate danger Brianna Taylor was gunned down Mattingly was shot and we're dealing with that situation or do you
[19:10]think it's just a matter of time before we do see criminal charges and we see allegations that there was a cover-up here and a planned story to try to
[19:19]change this narrative because clearly at this point and people are confused as to why there's a delay I guess in the investigation or delay into the filing of criminal charges we haven't seen it
[19:30]so what do you think's going on joy I think the former scenario that you laid out is entirely plausible you know let's not forget that this was the middle of the night this was after midnight it's
[19:40]very likely you know that the Taylor and Walker were asleep and even though Mattingly sergeant Mattingly is claiming that he and his team knocked seven or eight times and not just individual
[19:50]times but blocks of time it is entirely possible that these two people being asleep and being used ambient noise in a building you know an apartment building where there are other people may not have heard all that it's
[20:02]also entirely possible that that the officers announce themselves and and again the occupants didn't hear that so you know it's it's a very complex case
[20:11]and I think that's why we saw you know legislators in Kentucky now debate them whether they should even have no-knock warrants in the first place and they're currently considering legislation to ban
[20:22]most not known on warrants because as we're seeing the situation is so problematic Terry Mattingly apparently said that they've thought that Taylor
[20:34]would be alone in the apartment that this was a soft target and I assume that could be crafted into an argument that they were shocked when there was gunfire returned and they didn't know what was
[20:44]going on so is that going to help their case work against them because saying that it was a soft target that she was
[20:55]the only one there she doesn't have a gun she's a woman she's a smaller statue they could have just knocked on the door and announced themselves I think they're
[21:04]contradicting their actions by saying it was a soft lauren and saying that it was a soft situation because they didn't handle it as though it were a soft
[21:15]situation they handled it as though they were knocking down a door of a you know suspect and a criminal and all kinds of drugs and ammunition so saying that it
[21:25]was a soft target and actually acting in a different way I think well look I want to talk a lot more about Taylor because when we come back as I said we have to show you this new video that was posted
[21:37]by Brianna Taylor's sister on Facebook that shows the moments after the shooting we'll be right back right after this [Music]
[21:47][Applause] [Applause] welcome back everyone we want to
[22:00]continue talking about Brianna Taylor again the EMT who was gunned down by police in her own home believing that her apartment was used for drug operations even though there was no
[22:10]paraphernalia found there was no illegal activity conducted highly controversial move and none of the officers have been criminally charged well let's turn to some new video that we was released this
[22:22]week and Jenaya Pommer who is Brianna Taylor sister posted this video on her Facebook now she did it's artistic she didn't take this video it's actually a video recorded by one of the neighbors
[22:33]of Brianna Taylor but it was posted by Palmer nonetheless listen very carefully so these are the moments again after the shooting when Kenneth Walker Taylor's
[22:42]boyfriend was arrested hey bro what the fuck though Danny shot the fucking police they get SWAT out the smother
[22:50][Music]
[23:21]squinty honor thing fucking Africans somebody thank you for court you know
[23:32]this is crazy [Music] [Music]
[24:13][Music] [Music]
[24:49][Music] do you have unit watching you being a
[25:17]black choice [Music]
[25:25]you know they gotta you know you know he's going out of there now I really got the swatter and everything
[25:35]is going down now tell her sister who post this on Facebook she said okay since the police only wanted to share a small cliff of what really happened in those moments
[25:46]I'm gonna share the full clip let's talk about how Kenny meaning at Kenneth's Walker is following orders but literally every officer has their guns pointed at him
[25:55]racism is really spelt lmpd in Ron how do you view what we just watched well you know um it's a it's definitely a
[26:05]response in force you have to keep in mind during this situation we just had shots fired shots fired by officers to Brianna Taylor inside that apartment and
[26:17]also shots fired at the officers the response here is excessive but it's a violent situation so we're seeing what I
[26:27]believe I'm a former prosecutor I've spent a lot of time with the police here and this looks to me like a typical
[26:37]response by police when shots are fired I'm not saying you know the actions were correct what what followed or what occurred before but the response we see
[26:49]when you hear that shots are fired and an officer is down and there's also a civilian who has been hit you would tend to see a response like this now I have to say that although criminal charges
[27:00]have yet to be filed against the police officers we do know that the family of Brianna Taylor have filed a civil lawsuit so everything we see let's just say the special investigation yields no criminal charges against these officers
[27:11]all the actions by the officers and what occurred in that apartment and before and after will be litigated in some respect and sworn testimony taken
[27:21]discovery had and the public will get to see exactly what happened through that civil lawsuit if there are no criminal charges I'm glad you mentioned that joy
[27:31]that lawsuit has brought a lot of attention because the Brianna Taylor's family's attorneys have said that the police were so aggressive in doing this to try to track down Jamarcus Glover who that was basically
[27:43]they were trying to find this associate of Brianna Taylor somebody that she had a past relationship with and he was ultimately apprehended sat in a sideway but that they were so aggressive and they
[27:55]accused the city of the police department of doing this because of a redevelopment project that this area where Glover was participating in it
[28:05]where he held held these houses it got in the way of this redevelopment project and this real estate project is why they acted so aggressively and tried to get this warrant the mayor has come forward
[28:15]and called these accusations outrageous I guess my question is a Zimmerman says if we don't see criminal charges really where is this case going to go next what should we be looking out for yeah I mean
[28:27]well so obviously those are some very loaded claims and you're there lit quite literally fighting City Hall if you've got the mayor speaking out against this
[28:35]and so forth but but right you know I in in to be to be sympathetic to the family of course you know the exploration of wrongful death charges would be valid
[28:47]and they have called for the release of body camera footage and of course as we've heard there are huge discrepancies in the audio released through the
[28:56]internal investigations and then you know the what's revealed through the 911 call that was released just a few weeks ago and then you've got now this new video for the neighbor so there's just
[29:07]so many pieces that are still unclear here obviously it's going to be tough to to prove the claims that the family is
[29:16]now launching um but that it's reasonable then they're there call for the body camera footage to be released look this is a case that we're gonna
[29:27]continue to follow him before we just move on I do want to share one thing this was another portion of Kenneth Walker's police interview that was released you talk about the fear listen to what he said was going on in his mind
[29:37]what he was being told after the shooting well obviously told me I was going to jail for the rest of my life was Sims gonna let the dog go me and our
[29:52]types of stuff just happened who was that
[29:59]do you know can you describe to me no no I understand I'm sorry I just yeah I
[30:08]just don't like when people do that yeah they had the dog right there right my hobby barking I'm out there with no shoes or clearly nothing walking and
[30:19]water and stuff backwards he's like I'm gonna let this dog on you you're going to jail for the rest of your life and annoying was it a do you know who is an officer
[30:44]in uniform well they have like body cameras and stuff like that okay and we
[30:55]have ways of doing that so go ahead and
[30:56]watch majority the body camera now as we
[31:10]said the murder charge of the attempted murder charges to say was ultimately dropped against kenneth walker and again this is a case that will continue to follow but i want to switch gears and focus on another major case george floyd
[31:22]now there are some updates we have to talk about and again this is the man who died after that controversial police arrest clearly in the news but what we have just seen is the release of the
[31:34]transcripts of the body cam video of the officers so let's look at some of these excerpts because this is really important the first one is we're putting up right now as you can see George Floyd is saying I
[31:45]can't choke I can't breathe he really is expressing here the idea that he's struggling and it's important to know where he says I want to lay on the ground I'm going down going down now
[31:55]that's important because ultimately and if we go to the next one let's go to the next screen they ultimately comply with this request and they say we're gonna take you out they take him out of the car they put him to the ground and
[32:06]there's a thank you thank you just lay him on the ground but clearly he can't breathe now it should be noted he has said in these transcripts over 20 times that he can't breathe let's go to the
[32:18]next one because this is important as well he says I'm through through I'm claustrophobic my stomach hurts my neck hurts everything hurts I need some water something listen to what Derek Chauvin
[32:29]who is the officer is most charged here charged with murder then stop talking stop yelling you're gonna kill me man then stop talking stop yelling it takes
[32:37]a heck of a lot of oxygen to talk okay let's go to the next one it wasn't just Chauvin who said this because listen to what the other officer said when floyd said i can't breathe officer Jay
[32:49]Alexander come you're fine you're talking fine officer thomas Lane you're talking deep breath officer towel relax clearly all on the same page that they feel that he can
[33:00]breathe and maybe wasn't being honest even officer Lane says he's got to be on something meeting some kind of drug let's go to the last one I picked out here officer Lane says should we roll him on his side
[33:11]Shelvin says no he's staying put where we got him okay just worried I'm worried about excited delirium or whatever well that's why we got the ambulance coming okay
[33:21]I suppose let me come back to my panel here okay Terry let me ask you this you're reading this does this help the officers in any way because in a sense that they really know he couldn't
[33:32]breathe and does it help at least Thomas Lane who is trying to say he tried to get Chauvin off of the neck of George Floyd well these comments are definitely going
[33:44]to hurt showin and they might help lane because it does show that he's trying in some way shape or form to listen to what George Floyd is saying he's trying to
[33:54]say to Chauvin look maybe we should turn him over maybe we should stop and help him you know he actually at the end of day ends up calling the ambulance so it could very well help him here's the
[34:06]issue though Jesse he has been trained and when I say he I mean Lane and he could have stopped Chauvin but he did not so I think listening to this tape at
[34:16]the end of the day is going to hurt all of the officers involved in this crime well let me ask you Imran do you agree with that because Thomas lanes attorney
[34:26]Earl Gray has said he wants the body cam footage to be released he wants the public to see it he's filed a motion to dismiss the charges it seems that they feel this tape will help his client what
[34:37]do you think well his attorney in old gray is really going on the point that Lane was a rookie I think he was on the job maybe four days before these the
[34:49]incident happened and they're really trying to ship the blame here to the senior officer on the scene and that's Derrick Chauvin so I think it's gonna be effective for Lane to some extent I mean
[35:01]there's looking listening to looking at this transcript the body cam footage that we expect to see right I don't think it's to help any of these officers but if you're gonna make the argument that there are children's this he needs to
[35:12]see I do I mean I have a feeling in the next few weeks we may see this body cam footage and I know we have to hit a break real quick so joy I want to ask you one question about 40 seconds the gag order the judge put no attorneys no
[35:23]one here can talk about this case publicly after two attorneys spoke with I believe the Star Tribune your thoughts on that gag order well of course we don't want juries to be prejudiced but at this point who doesn't know something
[35:34]about the George Floyd case and so I think you all have to balance the fact that the public interest is is important to here you know we're we're developing as a society new policy police reforms
[35:46]based on what we've learned about this case and I think it's important for the public to learn as much as possible about the case and again I go back to the point of these series are probably already exposed to some sort of media
[35:57]about this case anyway so if you're going to tell me the truth tell me the idea it'd be impossible not to even if you're living on a rock I'm sure you've heard about what's happening here now having said that we're gonna take a
[36:07]break when we come back two other huge cases Gillian Maxwell Vanessa Guillen will be back right after this [Music]
[36:19][Applause] [Applause] and welcome back we're gonna move now to
[36:31]vanessa Guillen is the Army Specialist whose remains were discovered about 20 miles from Fort Hood where she disappeared in April now her family sat down with abc7 to give their first
[36:42]interview since the remains were confirmed to be those of Guillen and what you're about to hear is them asking for a congressional investigation into the handling of Vanessa's disappearance
[36:53]because there's been a lot of criticism hearing especially they say just because Vanessa Gans purported killer whose specialist Aaron Robinson he killed himself just because that happened does
[37:03]it mean the story's over take a listen we cannot let this happen again you cannot just oh okay the man killed
[37:14]himself but my sister was taken away just could it be your sister your friend have you been able to process what
[37:24]happened no I still can't accept it to be honest with you it's been really like
[37:34]I'm dreaming and I just don't accept it joy I'd like to start with you here partly because I've been cutting you off so much but here's the really important
[37:44]question is we don't know why Guillen died there's been allegations that she was sexually harassed there's been criticisms that no one took this investigation into her disappearance seriously will there be a congressional
[37:56]investigation do you think the DoD's investor investigator general is going to Inspector General excuse me is going to open up an independent probe into this because I know a lot of legislators
[38:07]are pushing for that and at this point the army secretary Ryan McCarthy has ordered an independent review to see what's going on but what about Congress
[38:15]and what about the DoD at this point Jessie first will have to say you're always blind you never credit cut anyone off but but second of all yeah I mean I do think absolutely that those are
[38:27]likely possibilities you know we've seen the tremendous public pressure for a further inquiry into this with a hashtag I am Vanessa Gayle and because this is larger than the the sad
[38:38]loss of this particular woman's life you touched on some of the issues there that are underlying all this you know it is there this culture that allows for
[38:47]sexual harassment and sexual assault among the military women in the in the service so there are some deeper questions there and when we heard from
[38:57]that grieving mom say you know I want Congress to look into this you know and the sisters say well this could happen again I mean those are those are the questions yes
[39:07]Robinson her purported killer is dead but the issue certainly is not in Cecily Aguilar who was apparently the girlfriend of Robinson she has been arrested and charged with a conspiracy
[39:19]county conspiracy she appeared in court clearly her account is what investigators are using to tie the pieces together we'll see what goes on with her case but again we
[39:29]will see more of what happens into the investigation of the handling of her disappearance finally tonight have to move on to arguably the largest legal story we have in the United States right now
[39:41]gilli and Maxwell this is of course Jeffrey Epstein who was arrested charged and she's currently in federal lockup on child sex trafficking track it's child sex trafficking and perjury charges and
[39:53]we always have a new update when it comes to her before we even get to that and there's some things we do have to talk about the acting US Attorney Audrey Strauss who spoke during the
[40:03]press conference upon d'Alene Maxwell's arrest had this to say about possible bail conditions because Elaine Maxwell has an upcoming bail hearing on the 14th
[40:13]here's what the US attorney has said we will be we will be seeking detention and you know we are sensitive to that concern and certainly will be in dialogue with the Bureau of Prisons
[40:24]about it [Music] this sometimes happens where their
[40:40]perjury charges and people can go on from there and become co-operators if that's what you're asking so I'm not concerned about that in the event that she were to become a cooperator I think
[40:50]that we can deal with that okay emraan I want to start with you because I've been cutting you off as well throughout the whole show now I don't know if you had an opportunity to see this but Gillian Maxwell's attorneys
[41:02]had a filing today where they said look she should be granted bail and I'll tell you why ghilane Maxwell is not Jeffrey Epstein they said she did not flee but rather
[41:12]left the public eye for the entirely understandable purpose of protecting herself and they was close to her from the crush of media and online attention
[41:21]and it's very real harms those closer have suffered the loss of jobs work opportunities and reputational damage simply for knowing her do you buy that
[41:32]Enron and will this argument ultimately work at her bail hearing i I don't think that Gillian Maxwell is going to be granted bail I think she'll stay on
[41:44]remand I think this case is too important to the US Attorney's Office the Southern District of New York to let
[41:55]it go without a fight and I think they're going to fight that bail application in court and I expect that a judge in the SD NY will deny the bail
[42:05]request I think there's too many sort of surrounding things with the gillian maxwell arrest and it's just too much of
[42:15]a risk to allow her to be on bail she is a possible flight risk she is someone with a lot of international connections and I think
[42:25]that they're going to err on the side of caution and I'm talking about the SD NY the duck judge and denied the bail application so hey Marlon you talked
[42:36]about how important she is Terry she may claim or her attorneys might say she's not Jeffrey Epstein but there are gonna be protections put in place that she doesn't end up like Jeffrey
[42:47]Epstein it's our understanding that her clothes and bed sheets were taken away she's in federal lockup in Brooklyn and her tire has now been replaced with paper clothing what do you make of this
[42:58]effort to make sure there's no harm done to her or harm done to herself well I think they have to be very careful because if it happens twice in a row
[43:09]they really will be put under strict scrutiny they gave her a roommate for her cell they made sure that she has these paper clothing so she couldn't hang herself they have guards on the
[43:20]outside they have cameras and that's exactly what they should have done with Epstein so I think they are making all of the correct moves and it's something that they absolutely positively need to
[43:31]do in this case joy I'll give you the last word of the evening she's hit with some pretty serious charges yet are we gonna see a situation if she doesn't
[43:41]cooperate the SD NY maybe has further charges that enter with kind of like we saw in the college admissions scandal if you don't play ball we're gonna hit you with something even worse is that
[43:51]possibility here you know I believe so because she has been charged with with you know these these six charges in connection with just a handful of
[44:00]victims when we already know based on what Epstein was charged with that the this ring is so much larger than that so I do believe that's a possibility and it
[44:11]is also likely that you know Sen why prosecutors are working with both carrots and sticks because they they do want her to cooperate right they know that she is the source of
[44:23]potentially so much more information and it could potentially help implicate so many other perpetrators out there so many big names yeah I'm sure President Clinton
[44:34]president Trump and look the world is gonna be watching what happens next in that case hopefully their walks in here on long crotch first I want to thank all my guests have a great weekend we will be back on Monday
[44:45][Music] [Applause]