[0:00]Paul, what was your role and your duties when you were working at Buckingham Palace? >> So, I was based with the Royal Protection Command from 1998 to 2004 and
[0:10]my role was to provide armed protection to the Queen, Prince Philip and Prince Andrew went in residence at Buckingham Palace and to oversee um guests coming in and out obviously following correct
[0:21]security procedures. >> Was it a job you liked? >> Yeah. Yeah, it was a it was a good job. Um, I suppose police officers in this country would call it a cushy job. Um,
[0:32]because you're not on the streets rolling about with drunks. You're dealing with, you know, the royal family. >> Are they easy to deal with?
[0:41]>> Um, from my time there, um, Prince Phillip could be a bit tety sometimes and, you know, throw throw a
[0:51]few exploitives at you. The Queen was wonderful, very polite, respectful. Unfortunately, Prince Andrew was totally different. Um, he could fly off the
[1:00]handle at the smallest thing. Um, he would be abusive. Um, he would shout, he would swear. Um, so we had a particular issue with Prince Andrew.
[1:12]>> And what would he be flying off the handle about? >> For example, if uh the officers on the gate, cuz sometimes they're dealing with things, they're dealing with guests. And he suddenly turns up. Usually we get a
[1:24]notice from his protection officer in the car that who's with him that they're coming in. Um sometimes it'd be a case of we haven't got the gates open quick enough. So if he is has to slow down for
[1:35]a small minute he would shout out the window. You effing buffoons um you know and stuff like that. So he would there was no leeway. If if it wasn't done
[1:45]right for him then he would fly off the handle. >> And what was your response to that? We made numerous complaints um uh regarding his attitude um because we're there to
[1:57]protect him and the staff are there to look after him. The you know the maids and the servants are there to look after him. Um and there's no reason whatsoever why a person with a royal title should
[2:06]be verbally abusive to his staff. Um but unfortunately um not many people understand the hierarchy within the palace. It's it's an archaic system. So it's a very very old old system. It's
[2:18]not like if you worked in an office and you swore at someone, they'd be dealt with. In the palace, it's totally different. People are too frightened to take the complaints higher up the chain. Um, bearing in mind Prince Andrew was
[2:28]the Queen's favorite. Um, no one would dare, you know, make an issue with regards to his attitude. >> Is he an intimidating figure in his own
[2:38]right? >> I'd say so. Yeah. I mean I can give you numerous incidents of uh us doing our job and um and basically being landlasted for following the procedure
[2:49]um in so much so that we used to break the rules for him in order to have an easy life if you want to call it that. >> Like what sort of rules were you breaking? >> So for example um
[3:01]he used to have a lot of young ladies come um to the palace um during the during up to about 5:00 is sort of office working hours. So what would happen is at the front of the palace
[3:11]there's a security post called the north center gate and that's where all the appointments for the day are are held. So there's another security post within the palace. All members of the royal
[3:22]family, their personal household would send down the appointments for each royal. They would be then transferred to us. So we would know who's coming in at what time to see who. So the procedure would be they would present themselves
[3:33]to us at the north center gate. we would check their ID, ring up to check the book to make sure their name's in the book and then send them up to the next security post where they would be met by the um member of the household for that
[3:45]particular royal. Now, Prince Andrew followed that procedure to a degree, but then after 5:00 when the sort of the working palace closed down, his private guest would turn up, um we were not
[3:55]privy to the names of the women turning up. So, basically that mean we would mean we were letting people in. We didn't really know who they were, which is contravening strict sec security pro
[4:06]protocol. We should know who is coming into the palace and have some kind of record. Um, and on one particular occasion, um, the procedure was we got used to it. So, a lady would turn up.
[4:17]She would say, "I'm here to see Prince Andrew." We would call his valet or his footman. They would usually come down and meet the the anonymous female and take them into the palace. Sometimes we
[4:29]would let them walk across the forcourt into the middle of the palace where the juke's private door is and they would make their own way um to his apartments.
[4:39]Um on one occasion um a female uh attended north center gate and said she was here to see Prince Andrew. Uh he'd just come in half an hour before so we knew he was in residence but we couldn't
[4:51]we couldn't get hold of his valet or his or his footman. So we had no confirmation because we do get people turn up at the palace saying I've got an appointment for the queen. They haven't. They're just they're just sort of
[5:01]mentally challenged. So there's that issue we have as well. People can turn up and say they're here for appointment but they haven't got one. Um so we we politely apologized to the female and said, "Look, we can't let you in at the
[5:12]moment. We need to get confirmation." Um so she said, "Oh, I'll ring him on on it on my mobile." So she rang Prince Andrew on her mobile and he must have been looking out the
[5:23]window because there was three of us standing there and one one of my colleagues was quite a large officer and he's the one who took the phone off the lady and we could hear Prince Andrew. I mean I don't know if you want me to use the exploives. Um but basically he said
[5:35]listen to me you fat lard ass [ __ ] Let my guest in. I'm going to come down there. We all heard it and even the female guest went bright red. So obviously we apologized to her. She
[5:44]apologized to us and we just let her in. Um and that was one example of when we are trying to do our job. We're trying to be uh you know safeguard members of
[5:54]the royal family and um Prince Andrew doesn't didn't understand that as far as he was concerned. We've caused him a problem. Um and yeah, it was it was just
[6:05]constant with with stuff like that with him. >> When you say young ladies, what ages are you talking about? >> Yeah, I mean I've been asked this many times. I would not put any of them young
[6:15]ladies under the age of 20. Um they would be 20s upwards. I've always said that there was a constant um flow of females um visiting Prince Andrew late
[6:26]in the evening whom we were not privy to their names. >> So identity >> what amongst the protection officers what was the banter about Prince Andrew
[6:37]and and his his uh entourage of women? The number that were coming in. We obviously thought he was a bit of a boy and the joke was he should have a revolving door in his bedroom. Um, you
[6:47]know, he's it was it was that it was that sort of attitude. I mean, he would get he would get his protection officers to drive some of these females home. Um, and to be quite honest with you, uh, last time I looked, Royal Protection
[6:58]Command isn't the taxi service. Um, so he misused police resources for his own ends. Um, but obviously protection officers aren't going to say no. they're gonna they're going to do what they're
[7:09]told because you're now in an environment um where you're you're part of the royal household. You're not part of the Metropolitan Police anymore. You're now in that bubble and your loyalty is to the royal family and that
[7:20]is how it's perceived. >> Did Prince Andrew have a nickname at that time? >> Well, his his his official code, so if he was to come into the palace, he would
[7:29]call someone was purple 41. But he did have a nickname, but it's a bit rude for me to tell you. Well, I'll tell you, but you're not going to be able to air it. It was just called Do you want me to tell you?
[7:41]>> Yeah. >> It was called the [ __ ] Um, plain and simple, cuz unfortunately he upset everyone he come across. Uh, he was the most unpopular member of the royal
[7:51]family. Um, while I was there. Um, and he was just he was just rude, arrogant. I mean, his sense of self-entitlement was was breathtaking.
[8:02]um you know police officers having to retrieve his golf balls in the back garden. I mean what's that all about you know um so he treated staff you know in a demeaning manner. I mean the teddy
[8:13]bear story um I went public with that not to to embarrass him or for a joke or for salacious gossip that was a clear example of bullying and coercive
[8:24]behavior um by someone who's a senior member of the royal household. I mean, no one should have to put teddy bears back on a bed using a laminated card for instructions, and if they get it wrong,
[8:35]they're going to get shouted and screamed at. I mean, that's just odd behavior in anyone's eyes. >> Tell me about the teddy bears, the number and where they were. >> The issue is the uh the fact if if I
[8:47]mean, say if you went home to your partner and he or she handed you a laminated card of all their shoes and said, "I want them in that particular order every day." And if you don't get them shoes in the right order, then I'm going to shout and scream at you. You're
[8:59]going to think they're odd. You're going to think there's something wrong with them. So, if you now transfer that to a senior member of the royal family, um, whose teddy bears had to be put in a
[9:09]certain position on their bed, and if they weren't, he would lose his temper and start shouting it. And they're only young maids. They're only young, you know, you're talking 18, some of them, and they've come down from different parts of the country and they're living
[9:20]in they're living in flats within Buckingham Palace. So they've, you know, they're only kids and to have to deal with someone like that who's verbally abusive and shouting is is not right. Um
[9:31]so my my how I first come across that was um every weekend the royal family go to their Windsor for the weekend. So the queen will um take her 10 dogs, get in
[9:42]her Jaguar and she will go, Prince Philip will go separately and then Prince Andrew will leave later on. Um, so at the weekend we go into their personal apartments and we check all
[9:53]their personal attack alarms. So obviously they've got a number of them dotted around their apartments in case an intruder came in they can press the button and we will we will come. Um, so
[10:02]we had to test all those. Hence why we had to go into Prince Andrew's living quarters to test his. And obviously I was with an inspector at the time and I think a couple of pieces or a sergeant.
[10:14]Um, and he explained we looked at all the teddy bears on the bed. We thought, "Okay, 40-y old man with about 50 or 60 teddy bears on his bed. All right, fair enough." And then he said, "Um, there's a card in that drawer there." And showed
[10:25]us the card. It was a limited picture of all the teddy bears. And then he explained that if the teddy bears aren't put back in this certain order, Prince Andrew would start shouting and swearing
[10:34]at the maids. So obviously that just the alarm bells are ringing then on that sort of issue of of you know why would anyone be that sort of you know controlling.
[10:46]>> Why would anyone have 50 or 60 teddy bears on their bed? >> Well apparently it was 72 more have come forward. So um so Amade has come forward after I did
[10:57]the ITV interview. Um she actually confirmed what I'd said but said it was I think 72. So obviously I didn't stand around counting them all. I just estimated 50 or 60. I was 10 12 out which is wasn't bad really.
[11:09]>> Pretty close. But still do we have any answer as to why he has so many? >> No. I mean I think what happened was he got um quite a lot of stick over that.
[11:20]But the bottom line is it comes down to I mean we didn't really know much about coercive and bullying behavior 20 odd years ago. And you know it's only recently that people you know domestic violence situations you know have come
[11:31]forward and people are starting to analyze what could be construed as coercive behavior. So looking back to me that was that's definitely something that's not right to to have to have
[11:42]staff put stuff teddy bears back in a certain order otherwise you're going to lose your temper. Um that's just not right. That's that's a whole issue uh that Prince Andrew has um really that he
[11:53]needs to talk to someone about. If I can just get you to give me your observations of one of Prince Andrew's particular guests, Galen Maxwell, what
[12:02]did you observe about her in terms of visiting Prince Andrew? >> Um, so I first became aware of Gizeline Maxwell in I think 20201.
[12:13]Um, when I told you about the privy purse office rings down and gives us all the appointments for that day and we write them in the appointment book on this particular occasion. um my colleague, a
[12:25]police officer in the privy purse department, he gave me the list of uh fixtures for the day and then he said, "There's a guest coming at lunchtime, 1:00 for Prince Andrew, but don't put
[12:35]her name in the book." So I said, "Okay, why?" He said, "It's Gizen Maxwell." Um so I said, "Fair enough." I didn't really pay much attention to it then. I said, "Fine. If that's how it is, that's how it is." So I went out, told my
[12:46]colleague and then we sort of discussed between each other. That's not really a good look having Robert Maxwell's daughter visiting Buckingham Palace when the Queen's in for certain reasons. Um
[12:58]so anyway, um about 1:00 she turned up in a chauffeer driven uh Range Rover. Um she just look glanced at us. The chauffeer spoke um said it was Gizlin Maxwell and we just showed her straight
[13:09]into the quad quadrangle uh where the Duke's private entrance is. Um sometime later we were relieved from post and we
[13:19]made our way through the palace gardens. Um and just as we got to the queen's private apartments which overlooked the grass we saw a picnic being laid out by the footmen and the maids. Quite a big
[13:30]picnic. Um so we went on our way to the police lodge had our break. As we came back we noticed it was Prince Andrew and Gizen Maxwell sitting having a picnic. Um and again we said I wonder if the
[13:41]queen knows who's sitting on her lawn having a picnic with her son you know so we thought it was a bit if the press got hold of it it might be an issue but uh
[13:50]so that was my first um sort of uh when I first noticed her after that she became a fairly regular visitor. Um personally I'd say within over the two
[14:00]years I'd seen come in about a dozen times and she was just waved through. Um there was no stopping asking for an appointment. She would just go straight through. Um which obviously is not
[14:12]procedure. Um procedure is you'll stop. We'll check if there's an appointment and then if there is you you'll be allowed in. Um so to to myself and my other colleagues, we got the impression um that they were in some form of
[14:24]intimate relationship. >> Did she ever stay the night? >> That I can't say. Uh I can't say. Um, obviously sometimes I would have um gone
[14:33]off duty at 10:00 or 6:00 in or 2:00 in the afternoon. Um, so I can't I can't say if she ever stayed the night. >> What What do you think the issue is of
[14:46]Prince Andrew and Ghislaine Maxwell having a relationship? Well, I mean, if you look back now, I mean, if you look at half a dozen of his close friends are now convicted sex
[14:57]offenders. Um, including Gizen Maxwell. Um, the lifestyle that he led back then, he has questions to answer now, unfortunately.
[15:08]Whichever way you look at it, I mean, if if one person had found out that one of their friends was a, you know, sex offend, you'd think, oh, that's out of the blue. to have five, six, you know,
[15:19]that's to me that's uncomfortable reading. Um, and I think what Prince Andrew is he's trying to do now is distance himself from Gizley Maxwell and I think it's completely delusional
[15:31]because there's pictures of him and her in parties and she stayed in Bar Moral and I know for a fact my colleagues, well, I mean, one of my colleagues saw her come in and out four times in one
[15:40]day. Um, so at the very least they had a close working relationship, a close friendship. For Prince Andrew to say I hardly knew her is is I mean he's
[15:52]delusional. >> What What is your response to claims by Prince Andrew that he did not know his friends were sex offenders? Well, I mean, he spent a lot of time
[16:03]with these people and, you know, I'm not I'm not judging Prince Andrew because he's got to answer for his for his own actions, but I'm only I've only ever commented on what I saw and what what I
[16:15]perceived. Um, you know, and so I'm I'm looking at a man um and he is just a man at the end of the day. Take away the role title cuz a lot of people under the perception that because you've got a royal title, you're not capable of wrongdoing. And there's a lot of people
[16:26]out there that think that. And it's it's that's that's you know it's you can't you can't live your life like that thinking people that's how uh Weinstein and Epstein got away what they did because people thought they were so rich
[16:37]and powerful they wouldn't they wouldn't be uh doing stuff like that. Well, Prince Andrew um you know with what I saw with young ladies coming in and out we weren't allowed to know who they were. We got the impression he liked the
[16:48]young ladies cuz he was in his 40s at the time you know. Um so he obviously had a thing for young women. He liked partying. I mean, there's plenty of pictures on the internet, unfortunately,
[16:58]with him sweating profusely as well. Um, and so he's he's now in a position where they are close friends. They were close friends. He can't he can't distance himself from the fact because the
[17:09]pictures on the internet, you know, there's statements, there's witnesses. Um, and I think he's pulling it straws. Uh, what his personal habits are in the
[17:18]bedroom, I have no idea. But all I can say is by the balance of probabilities, the amount of friends he is close friends around him um or all convicted sex offenders, he has questions to
[17:30]answer. >> Did you or your colleagues ever observe Jeffrey Epstein going into the palace? >> I personally didn't. Um and to be fair,
[17:40]I wouldn't have recognized him. Um I wouldn't have recognized him back then. It was only because of who Giz Maxwell was at the time. But I made a note and remembered her. So it's possible that
[17:51]Epstein could have visited the palace, but I certainly didn't um see him when I was there. >> Did any of your colleagues travel with Prince Andrew to New York when he visited Jeffrey Epstein?
[18:03]>> Not the colleagues I worked with, but his protection officers uh would have gone with him. Um, and basically he because he's a senior member of the royal household, that trip would have been planned from an office within the
[18:15]royal protection department, they would have contacted the uh state police or whoever runs protection in in New York um and given them the the prince's um
[18:25]details of where he was staying, his travel arrangements for the purpose of uh the Americans checking out the address to make sure it wasn't owned by Russians or anything like that. Well, obviously it would have come back that
[18:36]it was owned by Jeffrey Epstein who was a convicted felon. And even though Prince Andrew knew this and he would have been made aware of this by the protection team and probably the royal household, he still went against advice
[18:47]and visited Epstein for 3 days. Um, >> you're saying that the royal household would have been red flagged on this? >> Yes. I mean it they should have been
[18:57]definitely because any member of the senior household a royal royal family when they go abroad as I said uh it all has to be planned even if it's an unofficial trip he he's the queen's son
[19:08]so um he would have to have checks done on the premises as I said to you that he would get team of protection government protection probably on the other end to
[19:18]pick up and assist his officers. Um so there's a lot of things behind the scenes. It's not just him flying out and no one knows where he's gone. They need to know where he's staying, where the nearest police station is, where the
[19:29]nearest hospital is, what teams are going to take turns and looking after him and all those factors come into play. So my my issue is that once uh Epstein's premises and the fact that
[19:40]Epstein was a convicted felon was flagged up through the American side to our side, then surely they would have uh told Prince Andrew this. Um and they
[19:50]probably would have told the household. Uh but Prince Andrew being Prince Andrew obviously clearly ignores advice um and has and has gone to visit a convicted felon uh on his own back.
[20:02]>> But who in the household would know? I mean, would mom and dad be told about this? Would the queen know? >> Again, I'm not too sure if there's anyone who's got the the guts to speak
[20:12]to the queen about it. I'm pretty sure if the queen if the queen knew, she would have said no. Um pretty sure she would have said no. I mean, as I said to you, if you understand that Prince
[20:21]Andrew is a very uh intimidating figure. So, you know, he he he's not the type of person to cross within the royal household. There's many inst instances
[20:32]of him uh being abusive and bullying staff. I mean, a lot of people have come out recently with their stories. So, he's an intimidating figure within the royal family. And so, no one's going to
[20:43]stop him from uh visiting Nepon and they didn't. Um but the problem he's got he's got no defense. He's visit no normal person no reasonable person would visit
[20:54]a convicted sex offender especially for 3 days. >> In in regards to protection officers traveling with Prince Andrew. Would somebody have traveled with him to
[21:05]Jeffrey Epstein's island? Would they have been privy to what was going on on that island? >> Well, protection officers go everywhere with Prince Andrew as they do with most senior roles. They go everywhere. So, he
[21:17]would have had a protection officer or two depending um wherever he went. So, would they have been privy to any anything that went on in there? I'm not too sure cuz they they might have had
[21:27]their own quarters. So, they might have had a building or somewhere away from where Prince Andrew was with Epstein, etc. So, they may not have been privy to anything that had gone on.
[21:37]>> Why do you think no one's come forward to say, "Yes, we saw Prince Andrew with Virginia Greet at [ __ ] nightclub. we saw him dancing with her. >> I mean, it's a long time ago. Um, that's
[21:49]the first thing. Um, the second thing is, um, yes, they might have recognized Prince Andrew, but do you really take notice of the people around him? You'd be looking at Prince Andrew most of the
[21:59]time, and I think that's the problem. Again, with protection officers, um, you know, there's been requests for their um, their notebooks. So, they make notes. If they're going to go with the royal family, they're going to make
[22:10]notes where they're going, uh, what what places they've been to. Well, these books are kept for probably six years, maybe eight years maximum, and then they're destroyed. So any sort of police
[22:21]records, I suggest, are um are destroyed. In fact, a colleague of mine who came forward um who says that he believes he was on duty in the night in
[22:32]question and that Prince Andrew came back to Buckingham Palace that night. Yeah. So, a colleague of mine came forward. I spoke to him and um he went to the press. Um basically he believed
[22:43]that on the night in question um he uh he was on duty and Prince Andrew came back unexpectedly to Buckingham Palace.
[22:52]Um cuz once the royals go they they we know they're at they they don't come back they're gone. They'll go to wherever. And in this particular occasion they turn up out the blue. And
[23:02]for some reason, my colleague um was pretty sure it could have been the night in question, but he applied for his duty records and they had been destroyed apparently. >> So when you say the night in question,
[23:13]what do you mean? >> Uh the the nightclub, the nightclub incident. Um it it stuck in his head and um unfortunately he's too frightened to come forward and be identified. Um he's
[23:25]frightened of the backlash. Um he's frightened of scrutiny. Same with other colleagues that I've worked with. Um they're the same. They've got businesses and no one wants to get involved. I'll be honest with you. Um you're going up
[23:36]against the royal family. So there's a lot of fear amongst ex ex police officers of coming forward. They've signed non disclosure agreements as well. So they're worried about that. They're worried about their pensions.
[23:47]There's a lot of people out there with information that are just too frightened to come forward. So, do you believe that there is information there that would support Virginia Du Fray's claims against Prince
[23:57]Andrew that that your colleagues are witnesses to something, but they're just too scared? >> You know what? I honestly couldn't say whether or not there'd be witnesses to
[24:07]uh that incident or or Virginia Goofy, but they would certainly have information about his whereabouts possibly um you know, his coming and
[24:16]going. Um, you know, we've we've discussed it many of times, but as I said to you, no one wants to, you know, come forward. They're just too concerned for their own safety and their own sort
[24:28]of not safety is in that they think they're going to get harmed. >> Very quickly, what is your response to Prince Andrew's claim that at the time
[24:38]he was with Virginia Duy that he was unable to sweat? >> Yeah. Um, I really I think he right with
[24:49]Prince Andrew, I from my own personal six years that I was working there, I can honestly say that he's been protected by the royal household and the royal family. Um, and when I say
[25:00]protected, I mean he's never had to answer for anything. He's never been told he's done anything wrong. He's never been held to account on anything. Um, and unfortunately he did the
[25:10]interview with Emily Mateless on BBC and it sort of showed the general public that Prince Andrew is not very bright. Um, and his problem is he's he's saying
[25:22]he doesn't sweat when there's photographic evidence out there that shows him sweating profusely. Um, so that argument in front of a a civil
[25:32]court is going to go down like a lead balloon. Um yeah, it's not it's he's not um thinking through his def he hasn't got a defense. Let's be honest, he has not got a defense.
[25:42]>> Have you ever observed him sweat? >> Yeah, there was one incident um I recalled it because um and I said this again two 14 years ago. I was on duty in
[25:53]the back garden um and he came out um with his PO, his protection officer um with his golf bag, dropped a dozen golf balls on the floor right next to my
[26:03]post. was about 10 ft away from him and started whacking the golf balls towards the lake. There's a big lake at the back of Buckingham Palace. Um, so the protection officer went up about I don't
[26:14]know 20 30 yards, waited for him to run out of balls and then started throwing the balls back to him. And I remember that cuz I just thought I've seen it all now. Um, and then a butler footman came
[26:24]out with a towel and a drink and Andrew wiped his brow. >> Why would you remember that moment, that moment of sweat? because because he was he had a police
[26:35]officer picking up golf balls. Um and so I had to stand out of my post and watch this because I'm not allowed to once if a member of the royal family is in the garden, you have to stand to attention.
[26:45]Um and obviously I was observing and I just couldn't believe that a police officer was acting as a ball boy. Um so obviously I that stuck in my mind. Um you know it was a hot
[26:56]day. It was a hot summer's day. I was sweating. um you know and he was whacking golf balls and if you're wiping your brow what are you wiping off your face you know um as far as I'm concerned
[27:06]he was sweating um and and that's that's what I saw. >> Prince Andrew denies any involvement with Virginia Grey and he claims that on
[27:17]the night she says that she was made to have sex with him that he was at Pizza Express at Woking. Do you have an opinion on that claim by him?
[27:28]>> Well, I think if a member of the royal family went to a Pizza Express restaurant, um there'd be a lot of people who would remember that. Um especially the staff and I don't think
[27:40]any of the staff members have actually came forward and remembered Prince Andrew at any stage visiting Pizza Express. So, you've got an issue with credibility on the fact that there's not
[27:49]one witness that have come forward uh to confirm this. So, at the moment, again, it's his word. Um, and that's all he's got. He's not brought any witnesses forward that were there. Um, again, with
[28:01]regards to protection officers, there would have been a protection officer with him as was in tramps if he if he's gone there. Um, so if it's a private function, not necessarily would they have had to go and do an advanced party
[28:13]and check it. They would have just gone with him, escorted him there, um, if he actually went inside. Um, but there are no witnesses to confirm that. So, that is just what he is saying. Do you believe him?
[28:24]>> I always keep an open mind. I think it's it's right the right thing to do. Keep an open mind and let the facts speak for themselves. Um, personally, um, he he's shown himself to be dishonest in the
[28:36]things that he's saying, particularly the sweating um, and the other than the other things he's come out with. You know, the Epstein, I went there to say goodbye to him. I mean, that's just ridiculous. I mean, who's going to
[28:46]believe that? He's got a he's got a credibility issue now. Um, so I believe that that he's got questions to answer. Um, and I and I believe he's going to he's going to have a problem when he's
[28:58]um when he goes to court cuz he's never been challenged before. Um, and this time he's going to be challenged by a, you know, a legal team that know what they're doing, not an interviewer. And
[29:10]that's a totally different ball game. If Prince Andrew wanted to go to working, he wanted to take his daughter to Pizza Express, could he not do that without a protection officer, without the the
[29:21]royal household knowing? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, the royal household don't know his every move. I mean, that would be down to his PA. They would have his appointments book and write down where he's going for that day. Do you know that they'd have his day would be
[29:33]organized? So, they'd say at 6:00 he's going to Pizza Express, so they know where he's going. And not forgetting if he's if he's leaving Buckingham Palace and he's going to be staying at Windsor, then all the maids and all the servants
[29:44]would have to know so they can prepare his bedroom and prepare his meals so they would be ready for him to to as a guest um you know on that particular day. Um so
[29:55]potentially are there are there uh notebooks within the palace? So probably I mean it's 20 years ago they may well have been destroyed but it would have obviously all you know like the PA would
[30:05]have had a notebook um where she would have wrote wrote down uh you know times and places that he visited but PO's protection officers will always be with him wherever he went. So if he went you
[30:17]know to to the shops they would go with him. So, what you're saying is that there there at least was and there may even still be a paper trail that would show
[30:27]if Prince Andrew went to working or not. >> Well, potentially. As I said, it depends on on on what records the royal household keep. I mean, I suggest if there were any records, they're not
[30:38]going to be about now. Um, Metropolitan Police for police records, um, I'm pretty sure it's between 6 and 8 years they keep them. So any potential
[30:49]evidence within notebooks from protection office would have been destroyed. So um the only the only paper trail I can see potentially is is his personal assistant at the time who would
[31:00]have had diaries um of of his movements on each day. Would he or she have kept them for so long? Maybe. I don't know.
[31:09]>> Paul, what motivates you to speak out? Basically, I obviously I got myself into a lot of trouble when I was a royal protection officer. I basically uh was
[31:20]dealing in shares. Um I became a millionaire while I was a royal protection officer um in my own right before I got in trouble. And I basically started investing police officers money
[31:29]as well. Um and it came to a point where I was I was just um hemorrhaging money. It started off well. we were making money and I was dealing with millions of pounds and and the stress got to me and
[31:40]I started uh losing money and I just didn't have the guts to admit it to myself or my colleagues that it had gone wrong. Um so I turned to fraud um to try and keep the boat afloat and all that
[31:51]succeeded in doing was ruining more people. Um I was I went to court. Um I was held account for my actions and I spent six years in prison. Um, whilst I was in prison, I learned a very sort of
[32:03]uh, valuable lesson and that was always be honest to yourself and others and then you can't go wrong. Uh, and the only reason that I'm speaking out now is because I'm standing by what I said back in my cultural. I have not gone out to
[32:14]the press in any way, shape or form to put myself out there. A few years ago, what I said back in 2009 uh, wasn't really relevant um, to today's situation
[32:25]with Prince Andrew. Over the years, what I said has now become relevant. And so the press started using bits and pieces from what I'd said. Um, so I thought at
[32:35]the end of the day, it's what I said. I've got to stand by what I said. Um, cuz it's 100% true. I've been corroborated. A lot of the stuff I've said has been corroborated by independent witnesses anyway. Um, so
[32:46]I've got no I'm on no revenge mission. I just feel that Prince Andrew has got a case to answer on all levels, including bullying. Um, and I I suffered at the hands of Prince Andrew. Young girls suffered at the hands of Prince Andrew,
[32:58]maids, um, other police officers and members of staff. Um, but none of this has ever been looked into because people were too frightened. Um, and also it's important for the public around the
[33:09]world to understand just because you've got a title and as I said previously, it does not mean that you are a good person. So, the real Prince Andrew um his personality needs to be put out there and people can make their own
[33:21]decisions about what kind of person he is listening to the evidence that comes forward from other people. >> So, you're sure that his mistreatment of you as you describe it isn't what's
[33:31]motivating you today? That this isn't about revenge. You're not trying to kick him while he's down? >> No. I mean, it never has been. I mean, I um I mean, as I said to you, um no one's ever come forward to challenge my story,
[33:43]and all I have done is is come forward and backed up what people have asked me. I just think that uh it's it's important that people understand who Prince Andrew is. He's a very unpleasant person. It
[33:54]might Does it sound like revenge? Well, I tell you what, read some of the uh the statements that have come forward from other people about how he's mistreated staff. Um they can take the reigns if
[34:03]they want. I've said my pet and luckily I put myself on offer. I knew I was going to come in for flack when I did ITV because of my past, but luckily other people have come forward. It's encouraged other people to come forward
[34:14]and that's all I can hope for. So if they want to tell their story, I'm quite happy to sit back and let them carry on. >> Where do you think Prince Andrew got his nickname Randy Andy from?
[34:25]>> Well, I mean I let enough people, you know, ladies through the palace. Um, so yeah, I mean that that that's one of his nicer nicknames, but yeah, I mean he had that nickname because he was always with women. If you go on the internet, he's
[34:35]there's women hanging all over him in certain nightclubs and, you know, some of them not quite what you'd expect senior member of the royal family to pictures to be taken, you know. Um, so yeah, I mean, he he had a healthy
[34:47]interest in young women. I saw that, my colleagues saw that and we experienced it cuz we were the ones that let him in, let him in. So, um, yeah, that's that's that's standard. at issue is whether he
[34:58]had an unhealthy interest in young women and and to that point do you believe Virginia Grey? Right. I don't want to get involved in
[35:11]in between who's right and who's wrong. I'm I'm not here to say I believe Virginia or I believe Prince Andrew. I I'm basically saying look this is what I know and you're asking me if I believe
[35:23]you know that something went on. I can't honest I can't be honest with you. I can't say that I do. Um I think that's for a court to decide. Um cuz we can all have our own opinions, but I don't think
[35:33]it's healthy. The man's going to trial. Um and I know things have come out and I've said things, but you know, at the end of the day, he's got he's got questions to answer. But what I will say is that I I one thing that did make me
[35:44]uncomfortable, slightly uncomfortable when I was working there was uh another story that was I told when uh we were on duty and it was late um and we got a call saying there's a taxi coming in and
[35:55]two young women for Prince Andrew. Same procedure, let them straight in. So I said, "Okay, no problem." So they turned up um and they were dressed in very they were scantily clad dresses, very short,
[36:06]very low cut tops, heavy makeup um in their 20ies, drinking from cans of coke, laughing and giggling. They may have had a drink. So we just let him in. My
[36:16]colleague said um sort of looked and said, "I'm not sure that's the right attire for young ladies coming in to visit a senior member of the royal family." Because they were not dressed
[36:26]in like other women would be dressed in certain way suits or whatever. these two ladies were, you know, dressed very, you know, scantily. So, um, he commented on the radio to the other officers. So, by
[36:38]that time, everyone wanted to see who these people were. So, when they came out from his apartment after about an hour, the officers went down to the side gate where they were exiting to to to
[36:48]view these these two individuals. Um, uh, unfortunately, we didn't realize Prince Andrew was with them. um which is usually it's quite rare for him to escort two ladies down because he
[36:58]usually sends the footman down. Um so he he came out we we hid and he actually walked them out onto Buckingham Gate which is the road main road outside Buckingham Palace and stood there with
[37:09]him for 5 10 minutes and held a taxi for him with no protection. I've never ever seen him do that and we wondered as to why he'd gone to that much trouble. Um
[37:20]so that was a strange strange thing. The rest of the story goes some of my colleagues said they were high class um call girls. I don't believe that but that was what the story was and they he
[37:30]made it worse by standing with them and putting them in a taxi unprotected. Never seen a member of royal family do that before in my life. >> Why do you think these people's names weren't recorded? Why was it important
[37:42]that there was no record of who entered the gates of the palace? >> I I I don't understand why it would be so secretive. I mean the trouble that I'm having thinking about it now is the
[37:53]position he's finds himself now in. I mean who were we letting in back then? We don't know. Um why did he feel the need for us to breach security protocol
[38:03]by keeping secret people's names? I don't know. U but it just doesn't ring true. I mean no other member of the royal family breach security protocol. It was only Prince Andrew. Um, so he his
[38:15]the way he conducted himself obviously stuck out of my mind. Uh, and I think his actions back then are quite relevant to what he's facing now. Um, he led
[38:26]quite a hedonistic lifestyle and unfortunately it's come full circle and now he's got questions to answer that he doesn't want to answer. So >> do you welcome the fact that he is being
[38:36]forced to answer them? Yeah, he should be held to account for a, as I said before, a number of issues. I mean, if he's got himself in a position like he has now, um, facing a
[38:48]serious lawsuit, then then he's only got himself to blame. And, as I said, I I know what's happened with him. I mean, he's not the brightest tool in the box. I mean, just cuz you're a member of the royal family doesn't mean to say you're a brain box. I mean, he's led a very
[39:00]very uh cushy lifestyle. You know, he uh he used to use the Royal Helicopters, used to fly in the garden, used to go golf in the helicopter, you know. But he had a very easy life. Um, and he was
[39:11]protected as I say and that was the problem he's got. He's not protected now. And I think a lot of this stems back from the way he was protected. Um, cuz he this sense of entitlement and this sense that he can treat people how
[39:23]he wants that are lower than him is what's got him in this trouble now.