[0:00]It's just a few days before the 2026 Munich Security Conference kicks off and geopolitical tensions are running high. From great power rivalry to conflicts
[0:11]testing global diplomacy. Few understand these dynamics better than Wulfang Ishinga, former ambassador and longtime MSE chairman. and we speak with him
[0:22]about the very complicated status of transatlantic relations, about what's at stake at MSC this year, and where he still sees room for dialogue in an
[0:33]increasingly divided world. So last year, the statements by the vice president JD Vans caused an outcry that he made on the stage at the Munich
[0:43]Security Conference. Is he coming again this year? >> No. Uh the most recent um information
[0:54]we received from Washington DC is that the US administration uh delegation will be headed by Marco
[1:04]Rubio, the Secretary of State. >> Okay. Transatlantic relations have been the backbone of the Munich Security Conference since its foundation in 1963.
[1:14]That's what you stressed again today in the press conference. and you say that they are in a deep crisis of trust and credibility. Your report has um an
[1:25]unusual dramatic title under deconstruction. So where do we stand in terms of transatlantic relations? How do you work together with an administration
[1:36]that is out to demolish so much of what is really important to Europeans? >> Well, I think we have a double mission.
[1:46]The first mission, the first part of the mission is that we need to consider ourselves like a bicycle repair shop. You know, you bring in your bike which which which has been damaged and you
[1:58]say, can you repair this so that I can continue my trip. Um so part of our mission I think is to at least offer the
[2:07]possibility of repair work in terms of rebuilding trust um confidence building etc among transatlantic partners. Obviously trust has been
[2:19]um damaged uh think of Greenland, think of other uh recent issues. The other uh probably
[2:28]more significant more uh demanding um part of our mission needs to be to think about
[2:38]the the the longer term uh can Europe and if so how can Europe fulfill an
[2:47]American demand which is you should actually be standing on your own two feet you Europeans uh after 80 years of
[2:57]um uh of relying on the American security umbrella um take things into your own hand. This is not an un um uh
[3:07]you know this is this is a demand which I have a lot of sympathy for. Uh it's it's it's not written in the Bible that
[3:16]450 million Europeans, as the Polish prime minister used to say, that 450 million Europeans need 350 million Americans to defend themselves against
[3:28]140 million Russians. So why can we not uh comply with the American demand of doing more for ourselves, becoming more capable, more self-reliant?
[3:40]uh if that's what America wants, we should we should respond to it and become more uh and actually be a little more self-confident also as we try to
[3:50]tackle this second part of the mission which is of course not something where you can push a button uh it's going to take u many months years probably uh to
[4:02]move in that direction. Now, you chose deliberately to invite members of the farright AFD party to the Munich Security Conference. Unlike your
[4:12]successor and predecessor, Kristoff Hoiskin, when he was chairman of the MSC, he didn't invite the farright AFD party because of um them being
[4:22]categorized as partly right-wing extremist. Some people are saying that you gave in to American pressure. What's your reaction to that? Well, first first of all, there was no there was never any
[4:33]kind of American pressure. That's just a a myth. U I've never been approached by anyone from the US side about this at
[4:43]all. Second, um um I just want to make sure that everyone understands uh my
[4:52]sympathy for the IFD uh is close to zero. Uh, I have no sympathy for this party, but I need to recognize I am the
[5:03]head of a private foundation which runs a private independent dialogue forum called the Munich Security Conference.
[5:12]And with what uh kind of democratic understanding will I take a decision to exclude categorically from my events the
[5:23]largest German opposition party? Look, when when Kristoff Hoskin took a decision two years ago not to invite the IFD, there was a concrete reason for
[5:34]that. The IFD had just walked out of a speech by President Silinski in the German Bundustark, which was really uh something which made everybody including
[5:43]myself very very angry. Uh but since that moment uh we've had elections in this country and the IFD is now the single largest opposition party. Should
[5:54]I ignore that? They get in they get themselves invited by our head of state. They are sitting in every single committee of the German Bundist. Uh and
[6:03]I really uh I'm deeply opposed to the idea that by excluding them categorically, we should allow them to present
[6:13]themselves as being victimized again. So we decided to adopt a minimalistic solution. There will be no speech by any
[6:24]IFD. There will be no panel position by any IFD member. And out of 1,000 invited participants, these are three. Okay. So,
[6:35]let's not get excited about it. Let's just think that this is a normal procedure in a democratic country. I would like to stay with the US for a little longer because of course of the
[6:47]tricky relationship that Europe and the US have at the moment. That also goes for a big scandal that is shaking up European capitals at the moment, the
[6:57]Epstein case. Now, the Polish government is actively investigating potential links to the Russian secret service. What do you think happened here? Are we
[7:09]talking about Russian forms of warfare when we talk about um Jeffrey Epstein? Well, let me start by saying that we
[7:18]have of course had and we continue to have uh hybrid warfare by Russia in all
[7:26]respects against Europe generally and and against individual European countries in particular including in particular because we're the biggest one
[7:37]among the European member EU member countries including in this country we have had murder we've at cyber attacks. Uh we we have all sorts of hybrid uh
[7:49]propaganda um um activities. In other words, no surprise that Russia is looking at all opportunities
[7:59]um to tell the Russian side of the story and to influence decision makers and the public uh in in the west. Is there a
[8:10]Russian angle to the Epstein file story? I don't know. But let me put it this way. If if it turns out there
[8:21]is, I wouldn't be surprised. >> Would you call for an investigation by German authorities as well? >> Well, I I don't know why what what role German authorities would have in that
[8:32]respect. I'm not aware that there is any um anyone that I know about from the German side involved in any direct or
[8:42]indirect way. If there were, if we had reason to believe that there is a German angle to this, yes, of course, we should investigate and I'm sure there would be
[8:52]investigations if uh if any um state attorney uh felt that there was something that needed to be uncovered.
[9:00]So far, I haven't had uh I I I've not heard about that uh at all, but we'll see how the story develops. >> Now, Poland is a country that is warning
[9:11]very loudly um of the Russian threats, and you you keep stressing yourself that Russia's war against Ukraine is going into the fifth year now in two weeks
[9:21]time. So you've made um an interesting suggestion essentially that Germany needs to contribute more to the NATO's
[9:31]frontline states. What should Germany do in your eyes to help make these countries feel safer when it comes to the threat from Russia? >> Well, look, I mean for Germany, this is
[9:42]a a tremendous historical departure from uh the the practice of the last 80 years. Uh, for the first time since
[9:52]World War II, Germany has offered to deploy and is currently deploying an entire brigade into a neighboring
[10:01]country, namely to Lithuania. That's that's an a very important part of this effort. Uh, by the way, it costs a lot of money. Um, and the Lithuanians, as
[10:12]far as I can tell, are extremely happy about this strengthening of their own military backbone. uh an entire brigade for a small country like Lithuania is
[10:23]not nothing. Uh in this in that spirit uh all I am saying is uh let's think about how we can contribute to
[10:34]strengthening the frontline countries. Lithuania is one of them. Uh but there is Poland, there is Estonia, there's Latvia, uh and there are others. There's
[10:44]Finland uh etc. Can we contribute to strengthening the frontline countries in just the same way that in the cold war
[10:54]my own country was strengthened by American, British, French, Belgian and other efforts and presence of their soldiers and and and huge amounts of
[11:05]tanks and airplanes from these countries that helped defend uh Germany uh during the Cold War. That's got to be the spirit. We need to understand that our
[11:16]own business is not just to defend the German border, but our own business is to defend the European Union in its entirety. Uh, article 42/7
[11:28]of the European Union treaty uh, you know, establishes um, a a mutual assistance um, obligation. Everybody talks about
[11:40]article five of the NATO treaty. The European internal obligation is in in the way it's worded is even stronger than the NATO obligation. And it's in that spirit
[11:52]that I think it's not an absurd idea to think about how we could conceivably contribute to strengthen the military capabilities of those of our neighbors
[12:03]who are actually directly confronted by the Russian threat along their own borders. >> Will next year's title of your MSC report be more hopeful, Ambassador?
[12:15]>> Well, I certainly hope so. you know as a as a as a diplomat or I should say in my case as a former uh diplomat uh you've got to be u seriously optimistic you
[12:26]cannot survive in this profession if you don't have the optimism that things can be done I think Europe can speak with one voice I hope Europe will speak with one voice and I hope that our Munich
[12:37]security conference this coming weekend will offer an impulse to move in that direction a a direction of capacity building of strength and of uh
[12:48]self-confidence. >> Ambassador is thank you very much. >> Thank you.