[0:01]It's snowstorm season. Today cometh not an Iceman, but a blizzard of Epstein documents. We will tell you what we found and if this release complies with
[0:11]the law. Don Lemon arrested. Journalist or conspirator denying the rights of churchgoers. Is this what deescalation
[0:20]in Minneapolis looks like? There is a new nominee to lead the Federal Reserve and a potential roadblock. A sticky Senate confirmation unless Trump backs
[0:31]off attempts to prosecute the current Fed chair. Hello everyone, I'm Major Garrett in
[0:44]Washington. Welcome to the Takeout system overload. This week feels like a test of systems, a stress test, if you will. Minneapolis, what does the
[0:55]Constitution mean? How sturdy are the first, second, fourth, 10th, and 14th amendments? >> Two dead left to die on snow streets.
[1:06]Alex Pretty and Renee. [singing] [cheering] >> A popular American trouidor Bruce Springsteen performed at a concert in
[1:16]downtown Minneapolis protesting the perceived dilution of many of those rights. Another one, the Epstein files. The federal law requires their full release. That law has been defied for
[1:27]weeks. Today came another dump of documents. The component part of this Friday document dump released in an utterly disorganized fashion appeared as much about confusing the curious and
[1:38]obscuring the truth than complying with that law. Don Lemon, a journalist you have very probably heard of, and Georgia Fort, a journalist you might not know
[1:48]the name of, were arrested under charges that by any measure encroach upon the minds of many trample upon understood protections of the First Amendment. The
[1:58]federal government is charged conspiracy in the act of reporting on a protest inside a church. Earlier this week, we should note two federal judges rejected
[2:08]this as evidence of a crime. A grand jury decided otherwise. Therefore, this case will go forward or it may be dropped after the concussive effect on
[2:19]other journalists of seeing Lemon and Ford jailed subsides. In these stress test times, either outcome is possible. Future funding of sizable parts of the
[2:29]federal government are again in limbo because of what I described above. Methods of federal immigration enforcement that enough lawmakers have decided defy const constitutional
[2:39]protections as to force a stalemate over spending and all the uncertainty that that brings. Amid all this, life, art,
[2:49]and other system stresses collide. You may forgive us. I'm going to ask you to forgive us for trying to find a shred of humor in it all.
[3:00]>> What else can we be forgetting? >> Kevin, >> that is actress Katherine O'Hara, who we
[3:10]say with sadness died today at the age of 71 playing Kate Mallister in the movie Home Alone, realizing she's left her son Kevin at home while the rest of
[3:19]the family jets overseas. Kevin, that is our way of getting to President Trump's nomination of Kevin Worsh as Federal Reserve chairman. As to what else we
[3:29]could be forgetting, well, the independence of the Fed comes to mind. Worsh's nomination became instantly stalled when senators, key ones, vowed to block it unless the criminal
[3:40]investigation launched by the Trump Justice Department into current Fed chair Jerome Powell is dropped. dropped, the senator said, because it is beyond
[3:48]dubious and threatens Fed independence. So many system stresses. We will get to them all tonight, I promise. And we're going to start with Ed O'Keefe, who joins me here at the family table with
[3:59]what we know so far. That's an important element so far about this new batch of Epstein files. >> And it's early on a Friday. There could be a few more system stresses before the [laughter] end of the day.
[4:10]>> We certainly know that to be true. >> Yeah, we do. >> What can you tell us? Uh there's a lot there about another 3 million documents. Uh uh 2,000 videos, 180,000 images, give
[4:21]or take. Uh lot more information about the kinds of allegations that were made against President Trump or than businessman Trump back in the day when
[4:32]he knew Epstein. Uh lots of new information about the kinds of communications that Epstein had at one time or another with Bill Gates, with Elon Musk. evidence of associations with people like the commerce secretary
[4:43]Howard Lutnik years after he said he didn't talk to his old neighbor anymore because he thought he was a creep and essentially much more information from the notebooks of FBI and Justice
[4:55]Department officials who had been investigating the various elements of this for years a and and and found all sorts of allegations that had to be looked into. Uh found all sorts of
[5:06]email, found all sorts of pictures of his house. um and um other pornographic images the deputy attorney general said, although I don't know that we've discovered any of those yet in in our
[5:16]ongoing review. And to your point about it being chaotic, it literally was just published this morning to the Justice Department website with no rhyme or reason. Here it all is. You figure it
[5:26]out. And other government agencies have done this at times when they want to say that they've released the information but not give you some sense of a road map. The deputy attorney general was asked for one and wouldn't provide one
[5:36]to reporters when they asked, "Is there something in here we should be looking for or looking to highlight?" And in essence, what he said was, "We've done our job. You we fulfilled the law. You go figure it out." And they tell us
[5:48]they've only withheld about 200,000 documents for various reasons. Democrats on Capitol Hill survivors and the lawyers that work with them believe there could be much more that for
[5:59]whatever reason is being withheld. And is it our understanding, Ed, and you implied this a moment ago, and I believe there was a statement placed on X by the attorney general. This is it. They're
[6:09]not providing any more information. >> They they say that they have fulfilled their obligation to the law. Now, they're 42 days late in doing so. >> Point one, >> but they say that based on their
[6:20]assessment of everything they've found, they've done everything they need to do. They've withheld about 200,000 documents for various privileges, which means there's classified information or about
[6:32]people who were involved in this uh other things that may be active that we just don't know about um amid the 3 million plus that they released today. >> Ed O'Keefe, always a pleasure, sir. Thank you very much. Joining me now,
[6:44]Barry Lavine. He has covered Jeffrey Epstein for years and is the author of The Spider: Inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Galain Maxwell. Barry, I'm always glad to have you with
[6:54]us. As Ed and I just said, there is so much to try to get through. You haven't gotten through it all. We haven't gotten through it all. I don't believe any human on planet Earth has gotten through
[7:03]it all this afternoon. Any initial impressions you have to share with my audience this afternoon? >> Well, Major, I will say that uh it's a
[7:14][clears throat] it's a mountain. It's a monumental task to begin unraveling these documents and it may take not only days but weeks, months, and probably
[7:25]years until we really get true answers. Again, I'm thinking of the survivors. I'm thinking about these women who want the answers and they want
[7:36]accountability. They want to know, as Representative Thomas Massie said, that there were 20 men who took part in Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking,
[7:47]according to FBI 302 witness reports. Now, that to me is crucial in terms of understanding this. Who are these men?
[7:58]And what actions did the Department of Justice and the FBI take to cooperate the accounts of survivors about these
[8:10]men. And then I have to add, there's a a big wrinkle to this. Just the other day, Gileain Maxwell, who was Jeffrey Epstein's co-conspirator, who is serving
[8:20]20 years behind bars, issued in legal documents stating that there were 25 men who she claimed received settlements
[8:31]with the government into allegations related to Jeffrey Epstein. So, we need to dig through these files. We need to
[8:42]find accountability and we need to find finally why has the Department of Justice not
[8:52]prosecuted other individuals besides Gileain Maxwell? And if not, were some very wealthy and powerful men
[9:01]um given privileges of escaping this? Barry, I'm really glad you brought up that legal document submitted by attorneys on behalf of Galain Maxwell
[9:11]was a habius petition and it said that those were secret settlements and the point of that habius petition was to say to the court, if all these other people
[9:22]implicated in these crimes were able to reach secret settlements, why was I alone prosecuted? Now, anyone who is in prison puts a habius petition forward to
[9:33]try to get their release. There are all sorts of motives behind that, but that is a statement that someone's going to have to evaluate and evaluate against these documents, right? >> That's that's correct. I mean, this is a
[9:44]really sensational bombshell that that came out from her lawyers. Now, she herself, of course, has been accused of perjury by the government uh uh before
[9:55]her prosecution. Uh but the fact remains that if there is documented material that relates to settlements involving
[10:06]powerful individuals related to this case that would completely blow away everything we know about the investigation so far. And Barry, for the
[10:17]attorneys who represent the survivors/victims, they can go through this. They will have time and effort to do that. There could be reputational harm, but what they're
[10:26]after is not just reputational harm, but some threat of prosecutial action that could hold others to account. Correct.
[10:35]>> That is absolutely correct, Major. And [clears throat] that's why getting to the heart of this is so important. And it's not only the men who we know
[10:46]that there were others who took part in this. Um, Virginia Du Fry, who who was passed on, who was uh Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's primary and most
[10:56]vocal accuser, uh, detailed interactions that she was forced to be involved with upwards of a dozen men.
[11:06]Okay, so we know that and we've known this for for a number of years. And then of course Thomas Massie, the representative who with Roahana really
[11:15]spearheaded the EP Epstein files to get that transparency act. Uh he said that there were 20 men that there was more than a dozen that there were 20 men and
[11:26]now Gileain Maxwell herself her lawyers are saying there's probably 25 who may have been involved here. So it is important for these survivors
[11:37]for the sake of of of healing to be able to move forward is to is is to finally get down to the bottom of this. We've waited years in this particular case and
[11:48]the government has put us through a grueling 6 months of waiting while this had been politicized uh that we're finally seeing actual
[11:58]documents. And I know that there's 200,000 >> pages that we won't see that they say are privileged, >> but we're going to dig into the other material. And thus far, I have not
[12:09]myself been able to find references to those 20 men that Representative Massie had talked about. There's a lot of other material there related to friends of
[12:20]Jeffrey Epstein and >> um very disturbing photos and the internet is already filled a cesspool of information related to uncooperated
[12:30]uncooperated uh uh claims uh about uh individuals connected to uh Epstein but we really need to get to the heart of this >> and we will continue that effort and we
[12:41]will rely on you to help us in that pursuit. Ray Lavine, thank you very much. I appreciate it. journalist >> and former CNN anchor Don Lemon making his first appearance in court today after his overnight arrest by federal
[12:52]agents. We are now joined by our Andre Gutierrez who's following the latest developments from Los Angeles. First, remind us of this church protest and
[13:02]what role Don Lemon had in it. Well, Major, we'll have to take you back to January 18th. It all began with a Sunday service at the city's church in
[13:13]St. Paul, Minnesota that turned into a protest over immigration. Activists stood up in the middle of the worship service called out the pastor for his ties to ICE and the Trump administration
[13:24]and kept going even as church leaders asked them to stop. Don Lemon was there inside the sanctuary as an independent journalist. He had a camera rolling. He was moving around filming the
[13:36]confrontation and talking to people in real time. Prosecutors now say that by staying in the middle of that disruption, he wasn't just covering it, he was also helping it. And so they've
[13:47]charged him under federal civil rights as well as the Face Act laws that are usually there to protect churches and clinics from being blocked or threatened. Now, before Lemon was
[13:57]arrested, a federal judge in Minnesota did refuse to approve an arrest warrant, saying that federal prosecutors had not shown enough evidence to justify an
[14:07]arrest. That same judge also noted that Lemon and his producer were being treated as protesters without proof that they had done anything illegal. Prosecutors ended up appealing, but the
[14:18]eighth circuit court of appeals did not change the ruling and so prosecutors went around that to a grand jury and that's how we got to where we are at today. >> And what if anything do we know about
[14:30]the proceedings in court today, Andre? >> So the proceedings right now are still underway. They began right around 1:30. My colleague Matt Gutman and his team are right now inside that courtroom in
[14:41]downtown Los Angeles, but we are anticipated to hear that uh the judge will lay out the accusations, make sure that he understands those counts as well as if he has a lawyer. We understand
[14:53]that he does. And the judge will decide whether he stays in custody ahead of his next court hearing. >> Don Lemon does indeed have a lawyer, a very prominent one here in Washington DC
[15:03]circles. Abby L, what have we heard? So Lemon and his legal team are pushing back hard. They're saying the government is going after a reporter for simply being on the scene with a camera. They
[15:14]argued that this is exactly the kind of on the ground reporting the First Amendment is supposed to protect. Uh Lemon has publicly said that he clearly identified himself as a member of the
[15:25]press inside that church. and press freedom groups say that if this case does move forward, some newsrooms may have to think twice before sending reporters into protest or immigration rates.
[15:37]>> Andreas Gutierrez in Los Angeles. I appreciate it very much, sir. Thank you. Now to President Trump's nomination of former Fed Governor Kevin Worsh to replace Jerome Powell as Federal Reserve
[15:46]Chair. Trump nearly picked Worsh in 2017, but he chose Jerome Powell instead. Trump and Worsh now share criticism of
[15:57]current Fed policy. And yet in a 2010 speech as Fed Governor Worsh said this, and I quote, "If the Federal Reserve lost its independence, its hard-earned
[16:07]credibility would quickly dissipate. The cost to the economy would be incalculable. Higher inflation, lower standards of living, and a currency that
[16:16]risks losing its reserve status." Kelly O'Grady joins me now from New York. Kelly, always great to see you. My guess and yours is that quote will be brought
[16:27]back up to Kevin Worsh at a confirmation hearing because this is the key to the future of the Fed. It is perceived independence. That's right. You know, Wars is is an
[16:38]interesting mix of the fact that he was a Fed governor before he has uh experience in finance. Kind of has that that pedigree of the Federal Reserve plus the fact that he has that practical
[16:49]experience. But this question of independence, I think, is going to be drilled over and over. And you know, the reason why the Federal Reserve is supposed to be independent is because they're supposed to be able to make
[17:01]interest rate decisions based on the data and keep inflation and the job market in check, not because of what the White House wants. Uh, but you know, you and I were talking. I did interview
[17:12]Treasury Secretary Besson on Wednesday. He was one of the people involved in these interviews. So, of course, he's spoken with Worsh and and we asked him that and he said, "Look, independence
[17:21]does not mean oversight, does not mean uh no accountability." And so, I think that's going to be an interesting piece. But, yeah, I would definitely expect him to get some questions uh during the the nomination hearing, but also if he is
[17:33]confirmed from us folks in the presser. >> Sure. And to your point, Kelly, there is a criminal pro uh investigation of Jerome Powell. Now, that could be handled through an audit. It could be
[17:44]handled through congressional oversight, but bringing in the Justice Department is pretty heavy-handed. And that's why this question of Fed independence and what Worsh does or doesn't think about that is probably going to loom large in
[17:55]this confirmation process. >> I think you're right. And the other piece of it we've heard from uh Senator Tom Tillis that he will block, of course he's on, you know, the Senate Banking
[18:04]Committee, he will block any nomination unless that investigation is dropped. So I think on multiple fronts you're going to see this. But Major, what I will say is I I did some digging this morning
[18:15]when the president gave us that that gift of the news cycle. Very early morning. I hopped out of bed and I I said, you know, okay, my my circle of investors, what do you think? And I've heard actually pretty positive
[18:26]reactions. They like the fact that he was a hawk, tougher on inflation, wanted higher interest rates back in the day, and that they expect him to have that respect for the Federal Reserve's independence going forward. So, we shall
[18:38]have to wait and see, as we often do with the Federal Reserve major. Kaleio Grady, I appreciate it as always. Thank you so much. We turn now to Capitol Hill where despite a Senate deal to avert a
[18:48]partial government shutdown, dozens of federal agencies are still set to see their funding lapse at midnight. Why? I'm glad you asked. Because the deal is moving slowly through the Senate and then needs approval in the House. The
[19:00]House will not return to work in Washington until Monday at the earliest. Our Nicole Killian joins me now from Capitol Hill to break it all down. Nicole, take it away. Yeah. Well, [clears throat] we are on the verge of
[19:10]the Senate moving forward and advancing that government funding package after a few stops and starts here on Capitol Hill. Of course, this after Senate Democrats uh namely Minority Leader
[19:22]Chuck Schumer secured a deal with the White House and with the president to basically split off funding for the Department of Homeland Security. So, in essence, uh, lawmakers are voting on,
[19:33]uh, five appropriations bills to fund agencies like the Defense Department, Labor, HHS, the State Department, Treasury. Uh, but they're going to split off the Department of Homeland Security
[19:43]funding only funded uh, through what's known as a continuing resolution for the next two weeks so that they can use that time to negotiate some potential reforms
[19:53]with respect to ICE, which is part of DHS. So, that was the deal that was reached. That's what the Senate is voting on. Obviously, the House still needs to vote on these changes and they
[20:03]won't be back until Monday. So, it's possible we'll see a brief funding lapse uh over the weekend until the House can cosign on this legislation. >> One Senate Republican, Lindsey Graham,
[20:15]South Carolina, stalled this for a few moments or a few hours today. What was that all about? >> Yeah, that's right. That was one of the stops or brief stops uh in terms of uh
[20:26]this uh funding debate. Uh South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham put a hold on this legislation last night uh because he had some concerns about it.
[20:36]He felt that it was a bad deal. He is pushing for a vote on a bill that he just introduced to end a sanctuary city policies because he believes that's kind
[20:47]of at the root of some of these immigration issues. uh when it comes to enforcement and believes if we're going to have a debate on reforming ICE, we also need to look at some of the root
[20:57]issues and causes of this which in his view stems from some of these sanctuary city and state policies. So, uh he was pushing that. He also had some concerns
[21:08]over a provision that was stripped out of the Department of Homeland Security funding bill that was passed in the House dealing with that Arctic Frost investigation where several Republicans
[21:18]saw their phone records seized. Take a listen to what Lindsey Graham had to say about that earlier today on the floor. >> You jam me, Speaker Johnson. I won't
[21:27]forget this. I got a lot of good friends in the House. If you think I'm going to give up on this, you really don't know me.
[21:39]So obviously uh Senator Graham there with some pointed language particularly at Speaker Johnson from having that provision stripped out which would have allowed senators like him to sue the federal government for having their
[21:50]phone record seized up to $500,000. Uh he now has proposed amending that language and now that leader Thun has signed off to a potential amendment vote on what Lindsey Graham is suggesting
[22:02]along with guaranteeing him a vote uh on his sanctuary city bill. Uh he has now said that he will lift that hold which is why this package is now moving forward. Major
[22:13]>> moving forward a bit glacially but nevertheless moving forward. Nicole Killian Capitol Hill. Thanks so much. Still to come on the takeout, Minnesota Democratic Congresswoman Ilan Omar, one
[22:23]of many lawmakers to recently encounter threats [music] to their safety. Tennessee Republican Congressman Tim Burchett wants more security for lawmakers and he joins me [music] live.
[22:33]Also, the death penalty is now off the table for Luigi Manion. We take a look at this new ruling and what it means for this very high-profile murder case. [music] Plus, Nobel Peace Prize winner
[22:45]and Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. We bring you a preview of her conversation. My colleague, Face the Nation moderator, Margaret Brennan.
[22:53]The Takeout returns in 90 seconds. Welcome back to the Takeout. As promised moments ago, Tennessee Republican
[23:04]Congressman Tim Burchetta joins me now. Congressman, you have concerns and you want to air them here about security for lawmakers and what Capitol police are or
[23:12]are not doing about it. What are they? >> Well, I had a sort of an incident today that my local authorities are on top of
[23:22]it and they um they took care of business. But yeah, I'm always concerned about security. We um they always tell me that it's it's expensive and I've told leadership, you know, it's more
[23:33]expensive. They said, "What?" I said, "A funeral." You know, I got concerned when the that Jewish couple was basically just assassinated out on the streets of Washington. Nobody's talking about it
[23:45]anymore. And I worried about my colleagues in Congress, Democrats and Republicans that were Jewish. And um and and they put some funding in and they've
[23:54]upped it. Uh Brian Styles, the committee that oversees that, has really done great work on that and it's it's better than it was. I don't know what what the answer is. You know, everybody says tone
[24:05]down the rhetoric, but the rhetoric is what sells membership. So, we're kind of in a wait and see pattern until something something bad happens. And I worry when something bad happens, it's
[24:16]going to be too dead gum late. >> Congressman, you mentioned an incident today involving you. Can you tell us any more about it? No, it's just a um
[24:28]just some person who made some statements and and our local authorities were tipped
[24:37]off to it and had the fellow on film and and he I just say he was going to be where I was going to be and he made some
[24:46]statements about some things and and alerted my law enforcement, our police chief here in the city as well as my sheriff of all my sh all of them have been great but I live here where I live
[24:58]so it's um you know and and you go out you announce you're going to be somewhere and you have to have you have to have security now just about in my position and that's a pitiful thing that
[25:10]is a pitiful thing >> but that's that's the world we live in and it's you know I've got a wife and a daughter and I want them protected and I'm gonna and I paid a lot of money for
[25:21]the security around my the perimeter around my my farm here and you come on my property, I know you're going to you I know I'll I'll know within a millisecond if when you step foot on it
[25:33]and um >> from Tennessee, >> right? >> He'll take care of it. But >> does that does that make does that make you congressman [clears throat] >> does that make you congressman
[25:44]>> reassess and question >> the the risks involved of being in public life in ways you didn't before
[25:55]>> every day it's changed in the last couple of years and [clears throat] it's and it's just going to get worse and I think we've come to the realization in
[26:03]Congress that that the folks that are supposed to be watching us. You know, my big argument, of course, was always with leadership, and I really got mad at them because, and rightfully so. You know,
[26:14]they're in their protective bubble. They've got the security, they've got the suburban, they've got the detail, and we don't, but you know, I I it's it
[26:25]makes me re-evaluate everything. It makes me, you know, you can't see it, but I'm sitting in front of three or four guns that are on the wall that my dad took off of Japanese soldiers that
[26:37]he killed. I mean, you know, I'm I'm, you know, I I I'm very much aware of the world that I I've come from and the world I live in. And my dad told me one time, he said, "Buddy," he said, "If
[26:47]somebody's willing to lose their life to take you out, there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about it but try to stop them." And that's what we got to do. When you say, "Congressman, it's
[26:57]going to get worse." Why are you so sure it's going to get worse? >> Because that's just the the spiral we're in. We're in a people and you know, and
[27:08]people want to blame the news, but y'all are just going to report it. If somebody gets hurt, the the the protests get more violent because people get jinned up. And it's not y'all
[27:19]necessarily. I mean, they got this, you know, they got the computer, they got their cell phone, they're going to be on Facebook instantaneously live and it's going to sensationalize it. And and you know, that's why you all in the media
[27:30]have run and I'm and I'm grateful for it. A lot of the times when somebody pulls some stunt, you don't mention their names or you don't mention the victims in in some instances because all
[27:40]that does is feed that psychopathic ego that's out there. And the unknowns, the unknown ones are the ones, you know, the it's always the lone gunman kind of thing, >> right?
[27:51]>> And, you know, it's it's the reality of what I live in. It's >> it's I didn't I I mean, I Yeah, I chose it. I chose it, but I didn't >> it just came on me pretty fast. It came
[28:02]on all of us pretty fast here as of late. >> As I've told you before, Congressman, this is an ongoing conversation. I hope you'll come back cuz we all want to talk to you about things besides your personal safety. Your personal safety to
[28:13]you and to your constituents paramount. But you and I have lots of other things to talk about. I hope you'll come back. Tim Burchett, Republican Tennessee. I appreciate the time. >> Love to always breathe. Your class act. Thank you.
[28:24]>> Luigi Manion will not face the death penalty. We will discuss why a judge dropped two charges against him. And that's next right here on the takeout. [music] Welcome back to the Takeout. So very
[28:40]good to have you with us. Luigi Manion, he's accused of killing United Healthc Care CEO Brian Thompson will not face the death penalty. The judge dismissed
[28:50]two counts against Manion that should he have been found guilty might have brought a death sentence. Manion now faces the possibility if convicted of life in prison without parole. CBS News
[29:00]legal contributor Caroline Pissy has, as you know, been following this case closely and on a routine basis when there are significant developments, we ask her to come on to explain it because
[29:11]this is a high-profile case, to put it mildly. Caroline, I'm so glad you're with us. Why did the judge drop the charges? What do we know? >> Yeah, Major, this is a huge win for the
[29:23]defense to be sure this is no longer a capital case. Um the reason for the reasoning that the judge laid out here is she dismissed counts three and four
[29:32]which were federal uh statutes. She said that the defense essentially articulated a legal reason why um even the facts as alleged didn't meet that requirement.
[29:43]And it's sort of a technical reasoning which is that the predicate crime which were the first two crimes which were stalking crimes and cyberstalking that they didn't technically meet the
[29:52]definition of a violent crime for the purposes of this statute. And so you know in in a nutshell she essentially said you know the upshot of this ruling today really has nothing to do with how
[30:04]the government is going to proceed making their case. It it literally just has the practical effect of taking that death penalty off the table because statutoily counts one and two don't carry with it the probab or the
[30:16]possibility of the death penalty. So again, huge win for the defense. I would note that sort of the subheading here is that the judge also ruled in a in a
[30:26]second opinion not to side with the defense. She is allowing that evidence. You know, we've talked about it before, Major. Allowing that evidence, that crucial evidence from the backpack to uh
[30:38]not be uh suppressed. That's what the defense wanted, but but to be allowed to be shown to the jury. Remember, that's the gun magazine loaded. That's the
[30:47]alleged manifesto in this journal. All of this stuff that was found on his person when he was arrested in Altuna, Pennsylvania. And Caroline, back in
[30:57]September, Manon also had a terrorism charge dismissed. Is one way to think about this a legal tussle over overcharging and the judge finding some
[31:07]evidence to support defense assertions that there was overcharging? >> Absolutely. Again, the defense has won two major victories in this case.
[31:19]Remember, Major, there are parallel cases here. state ca a state case and a federal case charging essentially this the the same conduct and they're kind of vying for who's going to get the first
[31:29]bite at the apple to try Luigi Manion the state Albert Bragg's office the district attorney's office had charged Manion with the top charge of murder one murder in the first degree which in New
[31:40]York is a little bit different from what we typically think of a murder one charge it's beyond premeditation it has this terrorism factor you're right it has to have this element of of attempting to intimidate a civilian
[31:52]population. The judge said that's just not present here. Huge win for the defense. Yeah. Back then. Um and taking off the table the possibility the the
[32:01]the um need for the absolute maximum which is life in in prison without the possibility of parole. So that that is not a foregone conclusion. >> Caroline Pissy, as always, thank you
[32:13]very very much. President Trump and Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Karina Machado bonded briefly over the Nobel Peace Prize Machado won and then gave to Trump. But what about her future
[32:24]in Venezuela with the White House exerting almost daily control over that country? Our Margaret [clears throat] Brennan sat down with Machado to discuss the postaduro government. Some of that conversation coming up next here on the
[32:35]takeout. Welcome back. Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Karina Machado has praised US removal of Nicholas Maduro, but she's
[32:46]still on the outside looking in for any role in running her country. She sat down with my colleague Margaret Brennan for Face the Nation Sunday. Here's a preview. >> What role would you want in a future
[32:57]Venezuelan government? Because even President Trump says you may have a role in the future. Would you run for president? >> I will be present when the time comes. Uh but it doesn't matter that should be decided
[33:09]>> in elections by the Venezuelan people. I wasn't allowed to run in the last election as as we mentioned before because Maduro was afraid to run against me
[33:20]>> and he thought Edmundo was not a threat because nobody knew who he was and in less than three months we managed to put the whole country supporting him because
[33:31]this is this is matter of freedom. Super important interview. CBS News chief foreign affairs correspondent and as I mentioned moderator of Face the Nation, Margaret Brennan joins me now.
[33:42]So, she's been talking to the president. >> What do we know? >> And talking to Secretary of State Marco Rubio behind closed doors this week, a man she's known for 13 years. Um, and
[33:53]who is promising Rubio Rubio, not Trump. Um but she did have private meetings with Trump and said she will pay attention to what he told her eye to eye face to face and not what he said
[34:04]publicly when he had to explain why he was not backing the democratically elected president's party rightundo is Edmundo Gonzalez the man who ran at the
[34:15]top of the ticket that of Maria Karina Machado's party she explained why she wasn't at the top of that >> but to say as the United States did you won the election but she can't be
[34:25]president seems at odds, right? And that's what we talked about was behind closed doors. Are they giving you that timeline? Because the timeline for the transition is bringing us back to that
[34:36]question of how long does the United States remain deeply involved in Venezuela? And they cannot provide that date yet, but President Trump says he's deeply invested in opening it up for
[34:48]investment and the like. So, we talked some about that as well. Before the Senate this week, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State and National Security Adviser said, "This is not like a frozen dinner that you can put in a microwave and cook
[34:59]in two minutes. It's going to take three months, six months, nine months. We will be transparent. There's a big oil component to this." What does Maria Karina Machado think about the oil component of it for Venezuela's future
[35:10]and what America is probably trying to siphon off the profits thereof? Well, she is a patient woman because she talked about spending 16 months in hiding since her party won that
[35:19]election, moving place to place, 14 different locations, >> the definition of patience >> because the door regime was trying to kill her and capture her um or best case
[35:29]just capture her. So, she we did talk about oil because that is now what President Trump says this is really about an opportunity for America to open up and reclaim um assets there. And and
[35:40]that's important because this week the existing regime did push through this new change to move the oil industry from being socialized back to being
[35:51]privatized. So it's helping to pave the way for American investment. But that's if it you're scratching your head going, "Wait a second. I thought they were the socialist communists." You're right. Uh
[36:01]this is being done at at the barrel of an American gun. Uh that this change was put in place. And Maria Karina Machado's argument here was those decisions are
[36:11]actually not necessarily legal or legitimate because the people who are making them are not elected in a free and fair election. Uh nor are they technically legally recognized uh
[36:22]internationally because they were not elected. >> We've got about 45 seconds. Margaret, does she feel in limbo right now or does she feel like she has the wind of America behind her? >> She's unquestionably in limbo. But you
[36:33]heard that assertion. who will be president when there is an election and when that happens and she was very clear in laying that out. She is meeting with energy companies. That was news uh that
[36:44]she shared with us. She is talking about how to u move that transition process along and I asked her can you go back and can you run for that future election? Is America guaranteeing your
[36:56]security? Um you know when Marco Rubio does meet with you does he make you these promises? And we talked about that as well. >> Very good. All of that coming up on Face the Nation. Margaret Brennan, it's always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so very much. Nice to be with
[37:08]you. >> You can see Margaret Brennan's full interview with Maria Karina Machado on Face the Nation Sunday at 10:30 a.m. Eastern on CBS. Next, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. Her take on the
[37:18]FBI's raid of an election office in Georgia. That's coming up right here on The Takeout. [music] Welcome back to the Takeout. According
[37:33]to reporting from the Wall Street Journal, the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, is leading the Trump administration's efforts to look into the 2020 presidential
[37:43]election. We should note no credible evidence has been presented in court or elsewhere that anything improper with that election occurred. Gabbard took part in the FBI's raid at the Fulton
[37:55]County Elections Operations Center earlier this week. And earlier today, I spoke with Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson on that and other Trump administration actions related to
[38:06]elections. Lot of news in your space this week, not in Michigan, but Fulton County, Georgia. >> And you're here for the National Association of Secretaries of State. As I understand it, later today, the
[38:17]attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi, the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, >> and the secretary of homeland security, Christy know all due to talk to secretaries of state across the country.
[38:27]Try to evaluate those two things for me if you can. >> Yeah, I mean, it really reinforces what we've seen unfolding since the 2020 election, which is that we continue to be in the middle of a battle over the
[38:38]future of our democracy, over the future of our rights and freedoms. And it's a battle that's increasingly uh it's made it increasingly clear as things unfold in Minnesota as well how critical state
[38:49]officials are to standing up uh to lies to threats uh to the misuse and abuse of authority at the federal level uh and do so to stand up in furtherance of the
[38:59]truth of the law and to protect the voices the votes the safety of the residents and citizens in our respective cities and states. So, I'm proud to have always been that official who will do that. But now more than ever, we need
[39:10]all states officials, regardless of your of your political background, regardless of your party affiliation, to just stand up to uh the threats, the the lies, uh
[39:21]all designed ultimately, I think, not just to dismantle democracy and all that we talk about in this battle, but to make us feel small, like our voices don't matter, and to deter the American
[39:32]people from actually exercising their rights to hold this administration accountable at the ballot box. All of which of course is tied up in the other rhetoric we're hearing about President
[39:43]Trump joking about cancing an election and all the rest. Not on our watch, but also again, let's read between the lines. This is about making us feel like we don't have the power that we do as
[39:53]citizens in this country to hold elected officials, leaders accountable, especially when they do things that hurt our economy and our democracy. Do you
[40:03]see any legitimate role for the FBI taking materials out of the Fulton County elections offices? >> Look, first transparency is our friend
[40:11]and the 2020 election through being a very transparent, secure, most highly scrutinized election in American history, certainly in recent history, uh has only reaffirmed, all of the
[40:23]investigations have only reaffirmed that that election was secure and an accurate reflection of the will of the people. Donald Trump lost the 2020 presidential election and instead of accepting that
[40:33]and moving on uh and actually doing the work that he has now been elected to do, the rehashing of long disproven conspiracy theories with no evidence that there there's any evidence of
[40:45]wrongdoing. And look, if there had been anything arai with the 2020 election, we would have found it by now because of the level of scrutiny that we've seen, not just in Georgia, where they did a full hand recount of the paper ballots in that election
[40:56]>> with observers. >> With observers, transparency is our friend. In Michigan, we did over 250 audits of that election, each of which all of which conducted not just by election officials, but by the state
[41:07]auditor, by uh Republican officials in the state senate. All of those investigations, audits, and the like only reaffirmed the results of the election and reinforce the security of
[41:17]our processes. So again, we welcome the questions. We welcome the ongoing uh conversation, but no one, we all need to at some point just recognize Donald
[41:28]Trump lost in 2020. The election was safe and secure and an accurate reflection of the will of the people. And it gets to the point of then why why rehash these old long disproven conspiracy theories? Because one effect
[41:40]it does have, not just in in continuing to sew seeds of doubt among the American people, wrongly so, about our elections, it leads to threats against us, against election officials, against local
[41:51]officials, against our families, our staff. And that is exhausting to show up every day and do our job well and with integrity whether we be Republicans, independents or dep or or Democrats to
[42:02]do a good job and administer a safe, secure, high turnout election and then have to withstand threats to our families, to our safety because of these baseless accusations and and uh
[42:12]conspiracy theories. Uh to me, Attorney General Bondi, Secretary Gnome, and others want to come to our association today and talk uh to us. Uh that's what I have to say. know that as you further
[42:23]these conspiracy theories, the impact is on us, >> jeopardizing you, jeopardizing the people who report to you. >> Exactly. Local officials, clerks in communities who are our neighbors, you
[42:34]know, who who just pull workers who sign up to do this work because they believe in democracy. These are professionals who are committed to integrity and to the law and to making sure every vote is counted and every voice is heard. And we
[42:46]have been under and endured so much over these last few years because of this rhetoric, because of these falsehoods. We always stand up and disprove and prove that the election was was was
[42:57]secure and accurate. Disprove the accusations and yet they keep coming and yet it keeps happening. And it's to the point where for us, we'll continue to endure it. But I want these folks to
[43:08]know who are now abusing their authority at the federal level, chasing down these falsehoods and baseless conspiracy theories that the only thing they're actually going to do is hurt our ability to do our jobs and threaten the security
[43:20]of our lives. >> You can catch my full conversation with Michigan Secretary of State Joselyn Benson on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform. Happy Friday, everyone. This is the Takeout.
[43:31]Relentlessly [music] curious, reliably civil, occasionally clever. The Daily Report coming up next.