p. 1COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. INTERVIEW OF: SARAH KELLEN Thursday, May 21, 2026 Washington, D.C. The‘interview in the above matter was held in Room 2247, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 10:09 a. m. Present: Representatives Comer, Higgins, Biggs, Mace, Fallon, Timmons, Boebert, Burlison, Krishnamoorthi, Khanna, Stansbury, Garcia, Frost, Subramanyam, Ansari, and Walkinshaw. Appearances: For the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM: DANIEL ASHWORTH, GENERAL COUNSEL BRITTANY BRIGNAC, SENIOR COUNSEL ALAN BRUBAKER, SENIOR ADVISOR HANNAH CATHEY, PROFESSIONAL STAFF MEMBER MALLORY COGAR, DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS AHMARI COLLINS, FELLOW JESSICA COLLINS, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR JACK EMMER, CHIEF COUNSEL FOR INVESTIGATIONS EMILY FEYERABEND, COUNSEL BILLY GRANT, DEPUTY CHIEF COUNSEL FOR INVESTIGATIONS WILL HARNICE, PROFESSIONAL STAFF MEMBER PETER SPECTRE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR OVERSIGHT ELLISON TOLAN, COUNSEL ASHLEE VINYARD, DEPUTY STAFF DIRECTOR EE. Mi Nority DEPUTY STAFF DIRECTOR I, VNority stAFF DIRECTOR Minority comMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR G, Minority RESEARCH ASSISTANT EE, MINORITY RESEARCH ANALYST ,. ViNority LeGaL INTERN EE. MNoriTy SENIOR COUNSEL Minority FeLLow GE, Vinority senior COUNSEL EE, ority senior COUNSEL RE. Minority FeLLow EE. MNoriy SENIOR ADVISOR GE. Viinority CHIEF COUNSEL For SARAH KELLEN: KATHLEEN CASSIDY Morvillo Abramowitz Grand lason & Anello PC. Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10017 KIMBERLY HAMM CARLOS URIARTE Morrison Foerster 2100 L Street, NW, Suite 900 Washington, D.C. 20037
p. 4Ms. Brignac.We're ready to go on the record. This is a transcribed interview of Ms. Sarah Kellen conducted by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform under the authority granted to it pursuant to House rule X. Accordingly, House rule X grants the Committee broad jurisdiction for the Committee to conduct investigations of any matter at any time. This interview was requested by Chairman James Comer as part of the Committee's investigation in to the circumstances and subsequent investigations in to the crimesjof Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell; the operation of sex trafficking rings and ways for the Federal Government to effectively combat them; the ways in which Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell sought to curry favor and exercise influence to protect their illegal activities; and potential violations of Ethics rules related to elected officials. Can the witness please state her name and spell her last name for the record.
p. 4Ms. Kellen.Sarah Kellen, K-e-l-l-e-n.
p. 4Ms. Brignac.Thank you. I want to thank Ms. Kellen for appearing here voluntarily today. My name is Brittany Brignac, and I am senior counsel for Chairman James Comer. Under the Committee on‘Oversight and Government Reform's rules, you are allowed to have counsel present to advise you during this interview. Do you have counsel representing you ina personal capacity present with you today?
p. 4Ms. Kellen.-Yes.
p. 4Ms. Brignac.Will counsel please identify themselves for the record.
p. 4Ms. Hamm.Kimberly Hamm, Morrison Foerster.
p. 4Ms. Cassidy.Kathleen Cassidy, Morvillo Abramowitz.
p. 4Mr. Uriarte.Carlos Uriarte, Morrison Foerster.
p. 4Ms. Brignac.For the record, starting with the chairman, can the majority members introduce themselves, then Ranking Member, then minority members. Chairman Comer. James Comer, Chairman of House oversight.
p. 5Mr. Higgins.Clay Higgins, part of the Oversight Committee, Louisiana Representative.
p. 5Mr. Biggs.Andy Biggs, Arizona-5.
p. 5Ms. Brignac.Starting with the majority staff, can the --
p. 5Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois.
p. 5Mr. Walkinshaw.James Walkinshaw, Virginia's 11th district.
p. 5Ms. Brignac.Starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation.
p. 5Ms. Tolan.Ellison Tolan, counsel, Chairman James Comer.
p. 5Mr. Emmer.Jack Emmer, chief counsel for investigations for Chairman Comer.
p. 5Mr. Harnice.Will Harnice, professional staff member for Chairman Comer.
p. 5Ms. Cathey.Hannah Cathey, professional staffmember for Chairman Comer.
p. 5Mr. Grant.Billy Grant, deputy chief counsel for investigations for Chairman Comer.
p. 5Mr. Ashworth.Daniel Ashworth, general counsel for Chairman James Comer.
p. 5Mr. Spectre.Peter Spectre, director of oversight for Chairman Comer.
p. 5Ms. Collins.Jessica Collins; communications director, Chairman Comer.
p. 5Ms. Cogar.Mallory: Cogar, director of operations and chief clerk, Chairman Comer.
p. 5Ms. Vinyard.Ashlee Vinyard, deputy staff director, Chairman Comer.
p. 5Ms. Feyerabend.Emily Feyerabend, counsel for Chairman Comer. Mr. fe. a. chief counsel, Ranking Member Garcia. Mr. a. a. senior counsel, Ranking Member Garcia. Ms. a. a. senior counsel, Ranking Member Garcia. Mr. ae. ee. senior counsel, Ranking Member Garcia. Mr. a. deputy staff director, Ranking Member Garcia. Ms. i. a. research assistant, Ranking Member Garcia. Ms. i. ee. research analyst for Ranking Member Garcia. Mr. a. P| fellow, Ranking Member Garcia. Ms. a. a. fellow, Ranking Member Garcia. Mr. a. ae. legal intern, Ranking Member Garcia. Ms. a. a. comms director, Ranking Member Garcia. Mr. aa. a. senior adviser, Ranking Member Garcia.
p. 6Ms. Brignac.Ms. Kellen, before we begin, I'd like to go over the ground: rules for this interview. The questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions for up to an hour, and then the minority will have an opportunity to ask questions for up-to an hour if they choose. To the extent members have questions for the witness, they will be propounded during their side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need to confer with counsel, your counsel is speaking, and when members or staff are speaking during the opposing side's rounds of questions. We will alternate back and forth until there are no more-questions. Do you understand?
p. 6Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 6Ms. Brignac.There is a court reporter taking down everything I say and everything you say to make a written record of the interview. For the record to be clear, please wait until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until you finish your response before proceeding to their next question. Further, to ensure the court reporter can properly record this interview, please speak clearly, concisely, and’slowly. Also, the court reporter can not record nonverbal answers such as nodding or shaking your head. So it is important that you answer each question with an audible, verbal answer. Exhibits may be entered in to the record. Majority exhibits will be identified numerically; minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically. Do you understand?
p. 6Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 6Ms. Brignac.We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible, so we will take our time. If you have any questions or do not fully understand the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add context to, or rephrase the questions. If we ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words or details, you should testify to the substance of those conversations or events to the best. of your recollection. If you recall only a part of a conversation or event, you should give us your. best recollection of those events or parts of a conversation that you do recall. Do you understand?
p. 7Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 7Ms. Brignac.Although you are here voluntarily, you are required by law, pursuant to Title 18 of the United States Code, section 1001, to answer questions from Congress truthfully. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this interview.~Do you understand?
p. 7Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 7Ms. Brignac.If at any time you knowingly make false statements, you could be subject to criminal prosecution. Do you understand?
p. 7Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 7Ms. Brignac.This includes both knowingly providing false testimony but also stating that you do not recall or remember something when you, in fact, do. Do you understand?
p. 7Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 7Ms. Brignac.Furthermore, you can not tell half-truths or exclude information necessary to make statements accurate. You are required to provide all information that would make your response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement. Do you understand?
p. 7Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 7Ms. Brignac.Is there any reason you are not able to provide truthful testimony in today's interview?
p. 7Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 8Ms. Brignac.Please note that, if you wish to assert a privilege over any statement today that assertion must comply with the rules of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Pursuant to that, Committee rule 16(c)(1) states, "For the chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance." Do you understand?
p. 8Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 8Ms. Hamm.Can I just very quickly, just so the record is clear -- we've previously shared with committee staff there are certain topics -- this is a voluntary interview --that she's not prepared to discuss today. She'll talk about her own questions, pertinent questions regarding her own victimization but not questions about other persons’ victimization. The reasons for this include her own mental trauma, her ability to withstand sustained. qUuestioning on these points, legislative purpose and pertinency, concerns about the private rights of individuals including my client, and the protection of her constitutional rights. And I know that we've discussed. this with majority and minority staff, but I just wanted to make sure that everyone in the. room understood our condition.
p. 8Mr. Ashworth.For the record, thank you. As previously stated, the Committee will ask all questions it deems relevant to the Committee's investigation and hopes the witness will answer those questions as she sees fit. Thank you.
p. 8Ms. Brignac.Ordinarily we take a 5-minute break at the end of each hour of questioning, but if you-need a longer break or a break before that, please let us know, and we will be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that there is a pending question on the record, we would ask that you finish answering that question before we take a break. Do you understand?
p. 8Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 8Ms. Brignac.Do you have any other questions before we begin?
p. 9Ms. Kellen.No, I don't have any other questions. No.
p. 9Ms. Brignac.Great. And I believe we had another member join us. Can he please identify himself for the record?
p. 9Mr. Timmons.William Timmons, South Carolina.
p. 9Ms. Brignac.Thank you. I understand you have an opening statement that you would like to read for the record?
p. 9Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 9Ms. Brignac.You can do so now.
p. 9Ms. Kellen.Thank you. Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the Committee, my name is Sarah Kellen. I worked for and was sexually and psychologically by abused\ by Jeffrey Epstein for over decade. It is important for the Committee to understand before I begin that the woman sitting in front of you today is not the woman I was supposed to become. The years that have shaped my adult life were not my own. During those years, I was trapped inside Jeffrey Epstein's world. He groomed me, sexually and psychologically abused me;.controlled me, manipulated me, dominated me, and gaslit me until I could no longer tell which thoughts were mine and which were his. It was like living with a permanent virtual reality headset on. I was reminded every day how powerful he was, how influential he was, and. that to turn on him or disobey him would me an losing everything -- my job, my home, everyone I knew in the world, even my life. Understanding who I was before meeting Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell will help explain why I was the perfect target for them. hwas raised in a religious cult of Jehovah's Witnesses in a small community in North Carolina, in-a faith where women did not speak unless spoken to. We were not allowed to question men; in fact, we were required to submit to and obey men. We were discouraged from thinking for ourselves. At the age of 13, an 18-year-old man began pursuing me. At the time, I was flattered. I thought I was falling in love with him. Only now do I understand what was happening. I was being groomed and molested and then raped. I dropped out of high school at the age of 15 to prepare to marry this man, which I did at the age of 17. To me, I had no other choice. It was the only way to reconcile the fact we were having sex outside of wedlock, a grave sin in the eyes of Jehovah God. At the time, I thought it was love. .Only much, much later did I come to understand what had happened to me was wrong. My husband took me to Hawaii, thousands of miles away from my family and_.friends. Three years later, he served me with divorce papers at an airport. I signed them without a lawyer because I did not know I was allowed to have one. He then had me disfellowshipped from the Jehovah's Witnesses, excommunicated, without anyone ever having questioned me. I still don't know to this day why I was disfellowshipped. From that day forward, everyone who is a Jehovah's Witness is no longer allowed to speak to or associate with me, including my entire family, my parénts, my siblings, and all of my friends. From one day to the next, I was completely alone in the-outside world with no tools to navigate this world outside of the religious cult in which I had been raised. I was 21-years-old, far from where I grew up, stuck on an island in the middle of no where, no college degree, no family, no friends, no money, no where to live. The only person who. offered me shelter was a photographer 20 years my senior, who demanded nude photographs and daily sex from me in exchange for a roof over my head when I couldn't afford to pay rent. I had no other choice. To survive, I began to dissociate during these encounters;.a’coping mechanism that will stay with me for many years. During this time period, I went to a Neiman Marcus makeup counter in Honolulu. The makeup artist introduced me to a famous New York hair dresser, who was there promoting his new hair care line. He said he wanted me to model in a hair show for him in Maui. When I flew to Maui, he had me staying in his own hotel room. There was no hair show. He sexually assaulted me that night. He then said he wanted to introduce me to his friend, Jeffrey Epstein, who he said was a scout for Victoria's Secret. Jeffrey flew me to L.A. for a casting in his Shutters on the Beach hotel room. Although he did not sexually assault me that day, he made me think he was a model scout and told me to undress for him, which I did. Months later, while working at a hotel, a young woman I worked with became friends with me and knew I was desperately trying to leave Hawaii. She said she knew of a couple in New-York looking for an assistant and asked if I would be interested in the job. That couple was Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Unfortunately, I got the job. The first time Jeffrey Epstein assaulted me, I was on Little Saint James, his private island. This was not a vacation destination; it was isolation. He told me he was taking me on a tour of the island. He drove me on a four-wheeler to his bedroom. He locked the do or behind us. He approached me and lifted up my shirt. To this day, I can not remember exactly what happened in the minutes that followed. My mind shut down. I have since learned intherapy that this is called dissociation. It became how I survived. There were many events during the time working with Jeffrey and Ghislaine that my mind shut down and doesn't allowme to remember the traumatic details. I was then flown to Palm Beach in Jeffrey's private 727, then to New York City. I was surrounded by unimaginable luxury, private jets, designer clothing, lavish homes, the largest townhouse in Manhattan, was told. After a week of traveling with them, I was sent back home to Hawaii. About a month later, Ghislaine called me and told me to come to Palm Beach right away to start working. They bought me a flight for the next day, and I immediately started training, traveling, and working for them 24/7 with no pay. I was too afraid to ask even how much I would earn, terrified-of jeopardizing my only chance at survival and stability. I have read articles online labeling me as Ghislaine's lieutenant. That is a gross misrepresentation. I was a literal indentured slave. In fact, she even referred to me as her slave and minion. I had zero power or authority. I was there only to serve and to submit. Only after Jeffrey confirmed that I would submit to his sexual abuse did he begin paying me. After months of unpaid labor, he instructed me to draw him a bath on the island, then ordered me to undress and get in with him. And he said, "The job is yours. Now you just have to keep it." He then pulled me on to his bed and made clear what keeping the job required. Only after submitting to his sexual abuse did the paychecks begin. $25,000 a year for working nonstop, on-call 24/7, months at a time with no days off. I understood the math exactly. I was being paid, in‘part, to be raped. I was on call to him every hour of every day. I will not catalog every assault because it would take too much time, but! want this Committee to know that the abuse happened on average on a weekly basis and was at times violent. It included Jeffrey entering my room in the middle of the night and putting his fingers inside of me, waking me up from my sleep. It included an occasion in Palm Beach when he trapped me in the gym by lowering the metal hurricane shutters, blasted the music: so loud so no one could hear, choked me and violently raped me. The abuse continued while Jeffrey was supposedly serving his Florida jail sentence. He even Skyped me from a computer inside the Palm Beach county stockade and ordered me to undress for him on camera. As a result of the years of abuse, constant sleep deprivation, and coercive control inflicted by Jeffrey and Ghislaine, psychological conditions hampered my ability to identify my own emotions, differentiate reality from Jeffrey's manipulated reality, and crippled me from making decisions or asserting agency when it mattered most. Today,'I continue to suffer from major depressive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety. disorder, and complex PTSD, specifically as a result of Jeffrey's sexual assaults and psychological abuse. I know so me of you are probably wondering why I didn't leave. I had no where else to go. I had no money, no family, no education, and no sense that I deserved any better. This is why it is so important for people to be educated on how the grooming process works and how trauma bonds form. I have only just begun to understand this myself over the past few years through therapy. I can provide more information how I was groomed, but I will not speak for others and how they were groomed. Jeffrey made certain I knew that defying him would cost me my life. He knew everyone in the highest echelons of society and everyone catered to him. He knew everyone in the fashion industry, academics, finance, government, powerful world leaders, dictators, and everyone in between. From the beginning, he showed me that he was more powerful than basically anyone’in. the world. I sat in a room in Cuba with him and Fidel Castro. I was taken to Asia and Africa with President Bill Clinton, including a lunch at the home of the Sultan of Brunei. I was at Princess Beatrice's 18th birthday party at Windsor Castle and at the desert home of Sheikh Mohammed in Dubai. I sat across the table from Ehud Barak in Israel. Jeffrey was able to fool and manipulate the brightest minds in the world. Us victims did not stand a chance. I was a high school dropout from: North Carolina. I was a silent body in a chair beside men who started and ended wars. I understood completely that if Jeffrey could walk in to those rooms, he could walk in to any room in. the entire world. He could find me anywhere on Earth. He could also control anyJaw enforcement agency. That proof came in 2007. Two FBI agents tried to approach me and another young woman in the St. Thomas airport. Jeffrey told us to stay where we were, walked over, and spoke to the agents himself, came back 10 minutes later and said, "Let's go." The agents were gone. Later that same year, the United States Government placed me in to Jeffrey Eptsein's Federal non-prosecution agreement as a named coconspirator. I was not told this was happening. I was not asked about it. No one from law enforcement ever spoke with me, ever heard my side, ever asked me a single question. I did not even know my name was in that agreement until after it had been signed and released to the public. The Federal Government of the United States branded me a criminal in a secret deal with my own abuser, without ever once speaking to me. From the day Jeffrey Epstein found me until July of 2019, no one from the Federal Government, or any government for that matter, ever contacted me about anything, not once. I have spent every year since trying to live underneath that piece of paper. I finally extricated myself from Jeffrey Eptsein's grasp in 2013, when I became engaged to a man who gave me, for the first time in my life, a piece of footing outside of someone. else's control. I was finally able to leave. The abuse finally stopped. But leaving was not the same. as escaping. I am almost 47 years old. My entire life since the age of 22 has been dominated by Jeffrey Eptsein's abuse and manipulation and the aftermath of it. I am here today to answer your questions, to dispel rumors-and conspiracies, and to tell you the truth. I hope and pray that I am the only sexual abuse survivor that has to come before you in this manner. Nobody else who has been through the hell that Jeffrey Epstein put us through should ever have to endure the pain of recounting it again-publicly. All of us lose more of our lives, our health, our privacy, and mental well-being each day Jeffrey Epstein remains a topic of discussion. I hope this brings us one step closer to. closure for all of us survivors. Thank you for listening.
p. 14Ms. Brignac.The time reads 10:30 a. m. and the majority's time will begin now. And we've had another member join us. Can they please introduce themselves for the record?
p. 14Mr. Subramanyam.Representative Suhas Subramanyam for Virginia's 10th District.
p. 14Mr. Khanna.Ro Khanna for California's 17th.
p. 14Ms. Brignac.Thank you. EXAMINATION
p. 14QThe Committee understands that your testimony today can be challenging, and we appreciate you speaking with us. The Committee today will be referring to you as Sarah Kellen, but we would like to note for the record the Committee understands you have also had the surname Kensington and Vickers. Is that correct?
p. 15ACorrect.
p. 15QThank you. Let's start by discussing your background. You mentioned that you were raised in North Carolina. Is that where you were born?
p. 15AI was born in Fort Worth, Texas, and my family moved to North Carolina when I was about two.
p. 15QWhat year were you born?
p. 15A1979.
p. 15QWhat is the highest level of education you've received?
p. 15AHigh school diploma through a home'schooling program.
p. 15QDid you receive any additionalicoursework or higher education?
p. 15AI took a few art classes at a.;community college in Hawaii.
p. 15QWewill go in to more‘detail later, but for now, can you briefly describe your professional career?
p. 15AI currently don't work. I was a very devoted wife for 11 years and didn't work since -- during that period:
p. 15QCan you walk me through the years that your professional career would've taken place and any careers that you've possessed?
p. 15Ms. Hamm.Do you want her to start in Hawaii --
p. 15Ms. Brignac.Yes.
p. 15Ms. Hamm.-- or post-Epstein?
p. 16QYes, just briefly walk me through your professional career.
p. 16AI me an, my first job was as a hostess. I worked at like a little gift store in North Carolina. In Hawaii, I worked at a food truck. I worked at a bikini store. I worked at Banana Republic as a hostess at the W Hotel in Honolulu. And then I was a personal assistant for Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
p. 16QAny other positions you've held at other companies?
p. 16AI worked at a mortgage company in Hawaii for a little bit. I think that's it.
p. 16QThe Committee has reviewed documents also that you may have worked at a design company?
p. 16AI started an interior design company.
p. 16QAnd what year was that design company established?
p. 16AI don't remember exactly. It was during my time working for Jeffrey. Q- And when was the design company called?
p. 16ASLK Designs.
p. 16QAnd is the company still in‘operation?
p. 16ANo.
p. 16QWhen did the: company dissolve?
p. 16AI believe in.2015.
p. 16QWhy did it dissolve?
p. 16ADarren Indyke asked me if I could turn the company over to someone else, and I said, no. |didn't want -- it was my company. And I asked for it to be dissolved.
p. 16QIt was your company in what way?
p. 16AIt was my initials. So I was like I don't want my initials, you know -- someone else to be using my initials as their company.
p. 16QWhat position did you hold at the company?
p. 17AOwner, I guess, principal.
p. 17QOkay. Who did Darren Indyke ask you to turn the company over to?
p. 17AI don't remember the name.
p. 17QWhen did he ask you to turn the company over?
p. 17AI think it was 2015, probably the same time that it was dissolved.
p. 17QDid he tell you why he asked you to do that?
p. 17ANo.
p. 17QDid you ask him why?
p. 17ANo.
p. 17QTell me about the first time you interacted with Jeffrey Epstein.
p. 17AThe very first time was in L.A. He called me on the phone after Frederic Fekkai introduced us. And I spoke with him, and he said he was going to be in L.A. and wanted to fly me out for a casting, said he was a Victoria's Secret modelscout. And then his office flew me out on a red-eye from Honolulu to L.A., and I went to his hotel room at the Shutters on the Beach. And got there in the morning, went to his hotel room, gave him my -- he had just -- he was like in his bedroom. Gave him my portfolio: He told me to undress. And I was like, it's Victoria's Secret, okay, so I got down in to my bra and underwear and did’a turn. And he said, you know, "Thank you. I have to go to a meeting now. You're welcome to-come back at 4:00, you know, if you like." And I didn't really think anything of it. I was flying back to Hawaii that same day, and I'd never been to L.A. So! didn't go back. And I remember him calling me, around 4:00 probably, and asking me where I was. And I was just like, "I'm walking around Santa Monica before my flight." And he was visibly annoyed that I hadn't come back, and he mumbled something and hung up, and then I never heard from him again. And then, months later, when I was working as a hostess at the W Hotel in Honolulu, there was a woman that was interning at the front desk there, and she befriended me, learned about my story, about being divorced and disfellowshipped and trapped in Hawaii. And she told me about a wealthy couple that was looking for a personal assistant and if I would be interested in the job, and I was like, sounds like a dream come true. Yes. And then she organized a flight for her and I to fly from Honolulu to Jeffrey's private island. And he met us at the dock when we arrived. We took a boat over to the island, and I remember seeing him and thinking, oh, shit, it's the Victoria's Secret guy. Like, I hope he doesn't remember me because he didn't -- clearly didn't like me, he was annoyed with me, and now I won't get the job.
p. 18QHow did you meet Frederic Fekkai?
p. 18AAt the Neiman Marcus in Honolulu. I was getting my makeup done at the one of the makeup counters and telling the makeup artist that I was trying-to-be a model. And she's like, "Oh, you should really meet Frederic Fekkai. He would really likeyyour look. He's here promoting his hair care line." So I knew -- I was obsessed with fashion and magazines at the time. So I knew who he was. And she introduced me, and he said he was. doing a hair show and in Maui, like, in a couple days, in the next week, and would love for me to be in the show. So I flew to Maui, and there was no hair show.
p. 18QWho paid for the flight?
p. 18AI|don't remember. I assume he did.
p. 18QWhat year might this have been?
p. 18AIt would've been late 2000 or early 2001.
p. 18QAnd what were you told about Jeffrey Epstein prior to meeting him?
p. 18AJust that he was a Victoria's Secret model scout. Frederic asked me if he could introduce me to his friend that was a Victoria's Secret model scout.
p. 18QWhen did you first meet Mr. Epstein in person?
p. 18AA this hotel room in L.A. at the Shutters.
p. 18QAnd can you describe to me how that took place? Can you set the scene, who opened the do or, walked you through, anyone else that was present?
p. 19ASo he had a masseuse -- he'd just gotten a massage and a masseuse answered the do or. And it was a large, like, suite. So it had a separate living room and a half bath and then the bedroom. And she showed me in and said that he just got a massage, and she showed me to like the half bath so I could freshen up from the red-eye, and then she took me in to his bedroom. And I remember him being on the bed. I don't remember if he was like over the covers or under the covers» And that's where I gave him my portfolio, and he was like lying on the bed and looking through my portfolio, and I undressed.
p. 19Mr. Timmons.What year was that?
p. 19Ms. Kellen.Late 2000 or early 2001.
p. 19QWho was the masseuse that let you in?
p. 19AI'm not sure.
p. 19QAnd you mentioned a friend reconnected you to Mr. Epstein months later. Who was that friend?
p. 19Ms. Hamm.Can we go offthe record for a second?
p. 19Ms. Brignac.I'm going to ask that we answer questions that are on the record first. Are we on the record or off the record right now?
p. 19The Reporter.On the record.
p. 19Ms. Brignac.We're on the record.
p. 19Ms. Hamm.I have to --
p. 19Ms. Brignac.Okay. We'll go off the record. [Discussion off the record.]
p. 19Ms. Brignac.We can go back on the record.
p. 19Ms. Kellen.Her name was (ph).
p. 20QThank you. How did you meet i?
p. 20AShe was interning at the front desk at the W Hotel in Honolulu. Apparently Jeffrey got her the internship because he was friends with Tom Barrack, who owned the hotel.
p. 20QWhat did that friend tell you that persuaded you to reconnect with Mr. Epstein?
p. 20AWell, I didn't know that's who she was introducing me to. She never told\mé his name. She just told me there was a wealthy couple in New York that was looking for anew traveling assistant and if I would be interested. She had taken so me risque photos of. me earlier, and I learned later that she had sent them to Jeffrey, and then she started telling me-about the job opportunity.
p. 20QCan you provide any other details about the job opportunity and what an assistant meant here?
p. 20ASorry, can you --
p. 20QWhat did she tell you about the job-opportunity?
p. 20ANot a lot, just that their current assistant was looking to leave and they were looking for someone to replace her, and that it -- they were based in New York. That was kind of it. I just -- you know, I was really desperately. trying to get out of Hawaii, and I was going further and further in to debt and had no where to go. and no -- really no where to go. So it just sounded like a good opportunity, and I trusted her.
p. 20QOutside of those reasons, is there anything else about the job opportunity that was attractive to you?
p. 20AI really didn't have much information other than that about it.
p. 20QAnd you said she knew Jeffrey Epstein because he helped her get her job at the hotel. Is that correct?
p. 20ACorrect.
p. 21QAnd do you know how they knew each other prior to that or how that played out?
p. 21AI don't.
p. 21QOkay.
p. 21Mr. Biggs.Can I ask a question? I don't want to interrupt, but can I ask a question? Looking back on it, do you view this person as someone who might've been procuring. on behalf of Mr. Epstein?
p. 21Ms. Hamm.I don't think she can speak to other victims, truly, and I'm not. sure she would have the ability to answer that question.
p. 21Mr. Biggs.I guess, I'm not asking about that other person perse, whether they're a victim or not. I'm asking whether, in reflection, do you think that she was facilitating luring you in to Mr. Epstein's web?
p. 21Mr. Timmons.Was she compensated for it?
p. 21Ms. Kellen.I don't know.
p. 21Mr. Timmons.Do you think she wasvin’a sexual relationship with Epstein?
p. 21Ms. Kellen.I don't know. She-never talked about it.
p. 21QSo you mentioned meeting Mr. Epstein at this hotel room. What were your first impressions?
p. 21AIt's a good question. I didn't have a lot of interaction. It was just -- it was pretty quick. To me, it --_mean, it was obviously a little odd, not like the typical castings I had been on being in a hotel. room. But it seemed like he was there on business, and the timing of it, and he'd just got a massage, so him being like in the bedroom on the bed didn't -- it, you know, made sense. And, you know, the masseuse was there, so it all kind of added up. But, yeah, I didn't really have like a very strong opinion at that point.
p. 21QSoheasks you to undress. What happens next?
p. 22AI had just got in to my bra and underwear, and that seemed logical since it was a Victoria's Secret casting, and I remember just like doing a little turn, turning around so he could see my body. And he flipped through my portfolio and then handed it back and was just like, "Thanks. You're welcome to come back at 4:00," but I didn't really think anything of it. I was like -- I didn't really see the point in coming back because he had already seen me. So! kind of just dismissed that and didn't go back.
p. 22QOkay. So, after you hear about the offer for the job to be an assistantito this wealthy couple, what happens next?
p. 22AP| organized a flight for both her and I to fly from Hawaii to Jeffrey's island. And we arrived, Jeffrey picks us up at the dock. And I recognize him. from the casting, and I was, like, I hope he doesn't remember me because he didn't like me._ He was clearly annoyed that I didn't come back, and then it's going to jeopardize me getting the job. And I never reminded him that we had met before, and I don't think he remembered me. because he never brought it up.
p. 22QDid you ever speak about it again?
p. 22ANo.
p. 22QAfter he picked you‘up at the dock, where did he take you?
p. 22AWe just went up to like the main part of the house, and I remember like Ghislaine being there and the assistant that I was potentially going to replace. We were only there for a few days. I remember being--it was very luxurious. I remember that I shared a room with i, and in the morning she was like, "You can ask for whatever you want for breakfast." She's like, "I'm going to have. a big’ bowl of berries." And I was like, wow, like, a whole bowl of berries, like those are really expensive. It felt like very luxurious, like nothing I had ever encountered before.
p. 22QSo you understood this couple to be wealthy?
p. 22AYes.
p. 22QWhat did you understand their positions to be? How did you believe they acquired their wealth?
p. 23AI don't know at what point I learned what he did, but I understood that he managed billionaires’ money. Like they told me he wouldn't take on a client unless they were worth S11 billion. Ghislaine would tell me, you know, "You should really listen to what he says and, you know, do what he says, because he's clearly very successful and influential, and he can help you."
p. 23QWho told you that he wouldn't take a client unless they were over $1 billion?
p. 23AProbably Ghislaine, maybe him. It was just my general understanding: So I'm sure it would've been one of those two.
p. 23QYou mentioned that you believed you were replacing Ghislaine. Who told you that?
p. 23ANot Ghislaine, her -- the assistant a.
p. 23QOkay. I apologize. When did you first -- did you meet i:
p. 23AYes.
p. 23QWhen did you first meet iE?
p. 23AOn the island, that trip.
p. 23QWhy did you believe you: were replacing her?
p. 23AThat's what I was toldy She wanted to go to L.A. to pursue acting. So she was preparing to leave.
p. 23QWho told. you she was leaving for acting?
p. 23AI don't know if it was or i herself.
p. 23Q“We'll go in to more specifics on this, but can you briefly describe the nature of your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 23AHe was terrifying. He was completely dominating of everything in my life. I had an apartment to live in in New York. So I had to live where he told me to live. He dictated what I wore. If I would wear something that he didn't approve of, he would look at me and say, "It's disgusting. Where did you get that? Throw it away." So every time I would buy anything new, I would have to immediately go to him to get approval. He just decimated any source of autonomy that I had, which was very little at the time considering my upbringing. He dictated my haircut, my hair color. He would go to the salon with me and tell them what color to make it, what cut to make it. He gave me a boy cut with bangs, blonde hair, brown hair; and every length, every cut. He was extremely, extremely demanding and had no sense of reality. in what it took to get things done. He would get so angry if things weren't done immediately. or the next day, and he would keep you in such a state of terror when the most menial things weren't done. It was the smallest things became so important to him. Like just a silly example, when we were in Beijing one time, and-he -- he would go through periods of obsessions of different types of food. He would eat one-thing for months at atime. And he was on an Oreo kick, and I forgot to pack Oreos for the trip to China, and he was so angry that we had to have Oreos FedExed from New York to China. And it was like those things in the momentwere so important and so terrifying, and we were always on high alert of like making sure yowdidn't forget anything, and he was constantly giving you more and more things. And he would ask for things that didn't exist in the world, like, "Go source this, go find this." So you were. constantly trying to find something that didn't exist, and if you couldn't find it, then you'd-have to try to find how to have it made. So it was just being completely inundated with tasks and responsibilities, and then traveling. I traveled with them every 2 to 3 days. So I always, you know, had to pack his bag if we weren't staying at one’of the houses. And he would want his own bedding to be brought if he was staying at a hotel. ‘So I would have to pack all of the bedding, and then when we got to the hotel change his bedding in to the -- change the sheets out of the hotel bedding to his sheets. Various projects. He eventually had me become his interior designer because he was so difficult to work with. Nobody wanted to work with him anymore. So then I was in charge of going out and getting fabric samples and sourcing furniture and paint colors on top of all of my other responsibilities, while I was being sexually abused on a regular basis.
p. 25QThank you. Over how many years did your relationship take place?
p. 25AI met him in -- well, technically started working for him in 2000 -- end of 2001, and started segueing out in 2012 when I became engaged to my ex-husband, second ex-husband.
p. 25QIs that when your relationship ended when you segued out?
p. 25AThat's when I stopped working for him. We would keep in touch occasionally just to kind of appease him and not get on his bad side.
p. 25QHow often would you communicate with Mr. Epstein?
p. 25AAt what time period?
p. 25QOver the time period that you worked for him.
p. 25AAlmost daily. Depended where we were. In New York, I answered to Ghislaine. Mostly I worked out of her house when we were there. So she Would give me all my tasks in the morning. If we were traveling, I would see Jeffrey every dayrbecause I was staying at their homes or, you know, in a hotel with them.
p. 25QWhat was the manner of your communications? What method did you communicate with him through? Was this in person, over email? How did you most frequently communicate with him and in which method?
p. 25AMostly in. person, sometimes over the phone. In the first few years, he didn't really use email. He didn't have a cell phone. So he would call me mostly when he needed something or wanted something or to give me something to do. If it was in New York or if it was at the homes, he would in-person give me a list of things to do.
p. 25QWas the communication always direct to you, or did he ever use intermediaries?
p. 25ASometimes through the assistants in his Madison Avenue office in New York, Lesley Groff, other assistants that may have been in that office. There was Helen Kim, a few others. Cecilia Steen, I believe her name was. So sometimes he would give them tasks to tell me to do.
p. 26QAny other intermediaries besides other assistants?
p. 26AGhislaine.
p. 26QDid you sign a nondisclosure agreement up on being hired as Mr. Epstein's assistant?
p. 26AYes.
p. 26QWhat were the details of that agreement?
p. 26AI don't remember exactly. I don't have a copy, but I remember there being so me sort of financial -- I would have to pay money if I broke it. I forget how much, but therewwas a clause in there.
p. 26QDid the NDA reference any activity that you now know was-criminal in nature?
p. 26AI don't remember what it said exactly. I just remember there being consequences monetarily.
p. 26QDid the NDA reference any massages or maSseuses?
p. 26ANo.
p. 26QTell me about your first interaction with Ghislaine Maxwell.
p. 26AIt was on the island thatfirst trip. I remember her kind of showing off so me things around the island, like she had these treasure chests that she would fill with pottery and things that she would find on the island. from when it was like an old sugar mill. I remember that's where she told me that you should, really listen what Jeffrey -- you should really listen to Jeffrey because he clearly knows what he's doing and could help you. I don't remember much else that particular trip. When‘ came -- when she called me -- like a month after that initial week, she called me and was like»"Can you come to Palm Beach today?" I was like, "I have to work tonight." I'm like, "Don't you have to buy a flight like 2 weeks in advance? That's kind of what I was always told." So she's like, "How about tomorrow?" So I was like, "Okay, well, I can ask for time off work." And I flew out the next day to Palm Beach. And she put me to work right away. Like she had just gotten back from a trip to Paris, and she had me like help her unpack her bags and showed me how to make Jeffrey's coffee and his breakfast and where to buy the newspapers in the morning. I was helping with the laundry, kind of just anything that kind of needed to be done to serve him basically.
p. 27QYou mentioned in your opening statement that you were on call 24/7.
p. 27AUh-huh.
p. 27QWas that the case when you first started?
p. 27AThe entire time of my employment. I remember being at dinners with like one of my boyfriends at the time and him calling, and I had to leave in the middle of dinner. Like I had to -- anytime he called or summoned me I had to jump and leave right away.~Ghislaine would do the same thing. She would call. She did it to all the staff members...She would call and just ask for unreasonable requests, like 10:00 at night, can you come make Jeffrey this, you know, this snack or this meal, or they would just -- they would do it to everybody. It was just completely overwhelming and just -- there was no boundaries.
p. 27QHow would you characterize your relationship with Ms. Maxwell?
p. 27AI thought she was the most selfish person I had ever encountered. She was me an and belittling. She would literally call. me her slave, her minion, piglet, polyp on a donkey's ass. Like she would belittle you as muchras. she could to make herself more superior. She would do things like, you know, just to make sure. you knew she was in charge, she would, you know, ask me to make her a cup of coffee. And I would make her coffee, and then she would not even take a sip and let it sit there for an hour and then be like, "Can you make me another cup of coffee?" And I felt like she was -- she would -- I felt like she on purpose created chaos so that I couldn't finish the tasks, that she would then have to like sweep in and save the day to make herself seem like needed or useful.
p. 27Ms. Brignac.And we have another member who's joined us. Can they please state their name for the record?
p. 28Ms. Ansari.Yes. Yassamin Ansari from Arizona's Third District.
p. 28QDid your relationship with Ms. Maxwell change over the years?
p. 28AThe first several years, I worked out of her house in New York, and then she started: kind of slowly distancing herself from Jeffrey around the time he got arrested, probably around 2005 timeframe. She was still around, you know, in charge of all the houses and the staff and, you know, in charge of his life basically, approving all the bills and -- she just didn't travel with him as much at that time. She started dating Ted Waitt, so she was traveling with him a lot.
p. 28QHow was Mr. Epstein as a boss?
p. 28ATerrifying. He was like Jekyll and Hyde. He could be-the most charming, like playful, what I considered generous at the time; now I know it was ‘more about control. You didn't want to get on his bad side. He could turn at the drop of a hat; and you would see the fire in his eyes, and it was horrifying. I would witness him bring even: Ghislaine to tears, who I thought was the like strongest, coldest woman I had met. And you just didn't want his rage turned on you.
p. 28QIn --
p. 28AIt was impossible. to. ask questions. He would get mad at you and be like -- he would tell you something to do, and you would try to ask for clarification, and he would just be like, "Don't ask questions; just do exactly what I say. Like there's always a reason for everything I tell you to do." Like you couldn't‘waver from that at all.
p. 28QIn professional settings, would he cross the line as a boss?
p. 28AHe sexually abused me on a weekly basis. He would come in to my room at the houses and wake me up, molesting me. He would literally just grab me by the hand and pull me to his bedroom. In New York, I even had my own -- I had my own apartment that he let me stay in. But he would call me at night, and he had a code word that he would call me and just say, "cold sheets," and that meant I had to go to his house and sleep with him, and he referred to me as his human hot water bottle.
p. 29QDid he ever yell at you?
p. 29AYes.
p. 29QDid he yell at other staff?
p. 29AYes.
p. 29QWas he inappropriate towards other staff?
p. 29AIn what way?
p. 29QIn the manner you've described so far, would he direct that towards other staff members as well?
p. 29AI don't know. I didn't witness any -- well, he would. definitely yell and belittle and get mad at them if they didn't do something to exact specifications.
p. 29QWould he apologize afterwards?
p. 29ANever. He never apologized to me. once for anything.
p. 29QWhen he was acting inappropriately, were there witnesses?
p. 29Ms. Hamm.Can you clarify, do. you me an when he was yelling at staff or -- maybe just a little bit of clarification on "inappropriate."
p. 29Ms. Brignac.However you interpret the question, when he would turn his rage on you or would act inappropriately, were there witnesses? Ms. Hamm: Why don't you say how you're interpreting the question "inappropriate"?
p. 29Ms. Kellen.I me an, either the house staff or other assistants would've witnessed that.
p. 29QDid you ever spend time with Mr. Epstein apart from your duties as his assistant?
p. 29AI had a few times of contact with him when I stopped working for him. He would ask to see me sometimes in New York, and I would see him at his townhouse in New York, and I believe one time in Miami.
p. 30QHow did the abuse change over the years?
p. 30AIt was pretty consistent. It wasn't -- it had a period of slight reprieve when he was in jail for a short period of time, and then he got out on work release. It wasn't as bad in the years that followed his -- when he got out of work release. But it was still -- it still continued, just not to the frequency as much, the last few years.
p. 30QWhen is the first time he abused you?
p. 30AI don't remember exactly what happened the first time on the island. The first time I met him he gave me a tour of the island and then took me to his bedroom, and I just have a visual of him walking up to me and starting to pull at my shirt, but I don't knowexactly what happened after that.
p. 30Ms. Tolan.And you were how old at that time?
p. 30Ms. Kellen.Twenty-two.
p. 30QDid Ms. Maxwell abuse you?
p. 30AYes.
p. 30QCan you tell us more?
p. 30AWe were on theisland, and it was in their bedroom, and I remember Ghislaine just being on the bed naked. And I was not expecting her to be there, and I was just very surprised and extremely uncomfortable. And I just remember her kind of like touching me and showing me how to touch Jeffrey and what he liked.
p. 30QDid anyone witness when Maxwell would abuse you?
p. 30ANo. Jeffrey.
p. 30QWho did you tell about the abuse?
p. 30ANobody until 2019.
p. 30QWho did you tell in 2019?
p. 31AThe SDNY, my attorneys, my husband for the first time, other -- one of my best friends.
p. 31QDid anyone associated with Mr. Epstein abuse you?
p. 31AYes.
p. 31QWho?
p. 31AFrederic Fekkai, also Philip Levine, Ghislaine obviously. [11:07 a. m.]
p. 32QWhen did Frederic Fekkai abuse you?
p. 32AIn Maui, when he asked me to come be in a hair show that didn't exist, and then he-had me staying in his hotel room. And I didn't have any money to get my own hotel room or fly back, and he took advantage of me that night.
p. 32QDid Mr. Epstein facilitate that abuse?
p. 32ANo. Because then Frederic introduced me to Jeffrey.
p. 32QDid Mr. Epstein facilitate the abuse by Philip Levine?
p. 32AI don't know what he knew. It was my first or second-year working for them. They rented a house in Saint Tropez one summer, and Philip was really good friends with Ghislaine, and he came to stay with us in the house. And Jeffrey and Ghislaine had gone to bed, and Philip and I were still up. And he -- he came up to me, and he-was like, "You know, must be so lonely for you working with them because you're with them allthe time, and you can't have your own life, so you must be -- must be really lonely," and he basically forced himself on me.
p. 32QDid anyone witness the abuse by Frederic Fekkai or Philip Levine?
p. 32ANo.
p. 32QDid you tell anyone?
p. 32ANo.
p. 32QDo you believe Mr. Epstein knew about the abuse?
p. 32AI believe he would have known about Frederic. Clearly, he was not a Victoria's Secret scout, and that's what they were posturing him to be.
p. 32QDid Frederic Fekkai abuse any others?
p. 32AI don't know.
p. 33QDid Philip Levine abuse any others?
p. 33AI'm not sure.
p. 33QWhen did you first learn that Mr. Epstein was not a Victoria's Secret scout?
p. 33AWhen I went to his island. I learned he was a money manager.
p. 33QWere any others involved in the Victoria's Secret scheme?
p. 33AWell, I -- I had learned that one of his main clients was Les Wexner. So it didn't seem too far-fetched then that he would have had so me -- I me an, he had, like, a bigcconnection with them. I knew that he was friends with Ed Razek, who was the guy in charge of hiring all the Victoria's Secret models. So it kind of seemed to make sense that he could-have been a scout.
p. 33QWhen did you first learn he was not a scout?
p. 33AI don't know exactly. I kind of felt that he.-had influence in that arena. I know that someone that he knew was in the Victoria's Secret. catalogs, and he was friendly with, like, another Victoria's Secret model. So he wasn't necessarily, like, just a scout, but that he was mostly a money manager.
p. 33Ms. Tolan.Are you aware of any other instances where Mr. Epstein presented himself as a Victoria's Secret scout.
p. 33Ms. Kellen.I have read about that, but I don't recall who exactly it was.
p. 33QDid anyone else abuse you?
p. 33Ms. Hamm.Can you just clarify the time period?
p. 33QDid anyone else abuse you during the time period you worked for Mr. Epstein?
p. 33AThere was an incident related to Frederic. I don't know that Jeffrey knew about it. Frederic introduced me to Patrick Demarchelier, a very famous fashion photographer, and I went to his studio, and he did photos of me and then walked over to me with his pants down. Yeah.
p. 34QAnd who is Demarchelier?
p. 34AHe's a very famous fashion photographer in all the Vogues and Bazaars and very well-regarded in the fashion industry.
p. 34Ms. Tolan.What year was that.
p. 34Ms. Kellen.That was probably 2002.
p. 34QWho is Philip Levine?
p. 34AWho is he? He was a really good friend of Ghislaine's. He. worked -- he had a business, something to do with cruise ships, and then later in years he became the mayor of Miami Beach.
p. 34Ms. Hamm.Sorry. To clarify, was he the mayor then?
p. 34Ms. Kellen.No. I think he had a -- I don't know what the company was exactly, but I know it had something to do with cruise ships.
p. 34Mr. Biggs.Would you mind -- I know this is weird. But Demarchelier, can you spell that last name for me?
p. 34Ms. Kellen.I have to write: t.
p. 34Mr. Biggs.Oh, here-we go. How about --
p. 34Ms. Kellen.It's, like, French. D-e-m- -- Mr. Biggs: =- D-e-m-a-r-c-h-e-l-i-e-r.
p. 34Ms. Kellen.Yeah, uh-huh.
p. 34Mr. Biggs.Okay. That helps me. Thank you.
p. 34Ms. Tolan.Just to go back to Philip Levine, what year was that.
p. 34Ms. Kellen.It would have been 2002 or 2003.
p. 34QWas Les Wexner aware of the abuse?
p. 35AI don't think so.
p. 35QCan you describe your interactions with Les Wexner?
p. 35AI met him very briefly on a few occasions. I went with Jeffrey to his office in Ohio. I remember him and Les going in to his office privately, and I was waiting outside with his assistant, and I think there was another worker there. And we were just talking. And he was like, "Oh;-you work for Jeffrey?" They're like, "We're terrified of him, like, he's very scary." I was like, "Yeah, I know." But I didn't -- I wasn't, like, in the room with them. And then there was one time -- I remember being at a, like -- it was, outside in a field; it was like a horse thing or something that him and -- I believe Abigail was there. And then there was one time on his -- his yacht in Mallorca. They were docked in Mallorca, and we went on to the boat for, like, an hour or so. Yeah.
p. 35QIs there anyone else you believe facilitated Your abuse during the periods of time you worked for Mr. Epstein?
p. 35ANo. Other than the ones I've already said.
p. 35QIs there anyone who witnessed the abuse by Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 35Ms. Hamm.The abuse of. Ms. Kellen?
p. 35Ms. Brignac.Yes.
p. 35Ms. Kellen.Ghislaine. Sorry. I'm not sure if I can answer the others. Ms. Hamm: Can we go off the record for a second?
p. 35Ms. Brignac.Can you answer the question? We can go off the record. [Discussion off the record.]
p. 35Ms. Brignac.Let's go back on the record.
p. 35QSo the question was, is there anyone who witnessed the abuse by Mr. Epstein?
p. 35ASo there were specifically three occasions with other people present. Let me just preface that by saying that I also had my -- like, nude photographs of me displayed around the houses. So anybody that would have been at the houses would have seen that, all the staff members and guests. So there was the occasion with Ghislaine, and then there were two other occasions with: two other women, once on the island and once in New York.
p. 36QCan you tell me about those instances?
p. 36ASo the island was -- I don't know how else to call them -- at a girlfriend of his, in his bedroom that he directed me how to interact with her.
p. 36QDid any of Mr. Epstein's clients witness the abuse by Mr..Epstein?
p. 36ANot that I'm aware of.
p. 36QWhich visitors would have seen the nude photographs of you?
p. 36AAnyone that was in the Paris apartment. Hé had a massive, almost life-size nude photo of me in the gym above the fireplace. On the island in the gym, he had a massive -- I don't know -- like 8-foot-long photo of me naked. On hisdesk at the ranch, he had a nude photo of me. Ghislaine blew up like a massive probably 3 foot. by 4 foot photo of me on a -- mounted it to foam core. I believe that was on the island. .He-had a nude photo of me in the gym in Palm Beach. So I guess whoever, any visitors, any staff members.
p. 36QCan you-recall any clients of Mr. Epstein that you witnessed seeing the nude photographs?
p. 36Adon't remember a lot of clients being at the houses. I remember -- and if they were at the houses, they would have probably mostly just been in like more common spaces that they may not have been in, the photographs. With in his dining room in New York, that's where he usually had his meetings there. I don't remember a lot of clients visiting the houses in general. I do remember New York was probably the most often.
p. 37QYou mentioned in your opening statement that you did not feel like you could leave. Can you describe any threats that were made towards you that made you feel that way?
p. 37AThat, I think, is one of -- like, I think the most important thing to understand in all of this, that it wasn't so obvious, and it wasn't so, like, in your face. It was very covert, behind closed doors, the grooming process of, you know, being targeted as a vulnerable person and then him gaining your trust and then making you dependent on him and making false promises to you. It was like he kept you trapped, and, you know, making him seem like he-was your savior. And then you saw the power imbalance and the power dynamic of him knowing everybody in the world, and I remember -- I remember during my employment talking to‘one of my friends, and they were like, "Sarah, you -- you work 24/7, traveling every 2 to 3 days“ The amount of hours that you work, you should be making 2- to $300,000 a year." And I was like, "Yeah, but anybody that could hiré me or would hire me in that capacity, like, they are all friends with Jeffrey, and he's not going-to let me leave. Like, he won't let them hire me." So it was just knowing that he reallyshad full control over everything and then just the fear of not knowing where else to go and not wanting to upset him.
p. 37Mr. Higgins.Ma'am, thank-you for your calm demeanor. I'm sorry for what you've suffered in your life.
p. 37Ms. Kellen.Thank you. Thank you.
p. 37Mr. Higgins.I hope that this time for disclosure and discussion can bring you so me peace.
p. 37Ms. Kellen.Thank you. I've been waiting a long time to speak.
p. 37Mr. Higgins.Did you have, in the course of your time and interactions with the Epstein cabal, did-you have reason to suspect that very young children were also being abused, prepubescent children? Did you have any reason to suspect that?
p. 37Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 37Mr. Higgins.You never saw that?
p. 38Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 38Ms. Hamm.I think we -- we don't, though, as I mentioned at the beginning, want her to talk about other victims. She can talk about her own experience as a victim, but I -- she's not prepared to talk about any other victim.
p. 38Mr. Higgins.To the gentlelady's point, I was careful to phrase my question with in herown assessment. I will absolutely respect the parameters at this time. On the island, how much time did you spend on the island?
p. 38Ms. Kellen.Quite a bit. That was his main residence.
p. 38Mr. Higgins.Did you -- did you have a chance to explore the island very much?
p. 38Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 38Mr. Higgins.Would you be or did you have any knowledge of any secret are as, secret rooms that might be difficult to detect if you did not know they were there, like doors that looked like walls, things like that?
p. 38Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 38Mr. Higgins.Okay. Thank you: for answering those questions. They're helping us to dispel so me of the -- so me of the murmur that's out there. My final question, your assessment of Jeffrey Epstein, by all accounts, he was a monster.
p. 38Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 38Mr. Higgins.Did you ever see him as a type of monster that would commit suicide?
p. 38Ms. Kellen.No. I don't believe he did.
p. 38Mr. Higgins.You said that very affirmatively. Can you speak to your assessment there?
p. 38Ms. Kellen.I believe he was too much of a narcissist, that it was too so on. It was just a month in from him being arrested, and I think that he -- I'm sure he thought he would get off again. He was a coward. I just don't see him -- him going through with something like that. I feel like reading kind of the -- like, Michael Baden or Baden's assessment of the markings on his neck, the broken bones in his neck. I don't know how that would happen, kind of leaning forward from a bedpost with bedsheets. None of it -- none of it made sense to me. And just knowing him in general, I just -- I don't believe it.
p. 39Mr. Higgins.So you believe he was murdered?
p. 39Ms. Kellen.I do.
p. 39Mr. Higgins.Thank you for answering my questions. Mr. Chairman, that's all I have.
p. 39Mr. Biggs.Thank you. And, again, thank you for your courage speakingup. here with us today. Appreciate it very much. I hope you don't mind that I'm going to revisit the discussion We had with regard to I I I believe, i. And I just want to confirm in my: mind to understand, if that's okay. And I'm not trying to step outside the bounds that we've set, but here we go. So, if I understand right is the one who arranged your trip to Epstein Island to pursue the job as an assistant?
p. 39Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 39Mr. Biggs.And she also accompanied you to the island?
p. 39Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 39Mr. Biggs.And she. was your roommate for several days on the island?
p. 39Ms. Kellen.Yes. Mr. Biggs: You were offered the job, I understand, during your visit to the island?
p. 39Ms. Kellen.Not that trip.
p. 39Mr. Biggs.Okay.
p. 39Ms. Kellen.I traveled with them for about a week. We were on the island for about 3 days and then Palm Beach for a few days and then New York for a few days, and then I flew back to Hawaii. It was September 10th, 2001. So I remember it was, like, the day before September 11th. I was thinking, like, I had just been in New York the day before. And I flew back to Hawaii, went back to my job at the hotel restaurant, and then probably, like 3 weeks to a month later, Ghislaine called me and asked if I could fly to Palm Beach that day to start training to work.
p. 40Mr. Biggs.All right. And did a. did she ever end up working for Epstein or Maxwell?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.No, not that I'm aware of.
p. 40Mr. Biggs.And, to your knowledge, did she ever -- well, I'll just leave it there. l. appreciate the answers.
p. 40Mr. Timmons.Thank you. I want to ask questions about the nonprosecution agreement. You're specifically mentioned in it. Were you represented by an-attorney in that process?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 40Mr. Timmons.When did you find out that your name was included in that nonprosecution agreement?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.When it was publicly released.
p. 40Mr. Timmons.Around what time?. Around what year?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.I think it was probably, like, a year or two after it was executed. When I think there was, like, a fight -- a legal. fight about undoing it or something, and it had been -- or not keeping it secret anymore, and it was released to the public. Mr. Timmons, You've met Darren Indyke?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.-Yes. MreTimmons. When did you first meet him?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.Beginning of my employment in 2002.
p. 40Mr. Timmons.How regular was your interaction with him?
p. 40Ms. Kellen.Not super regular. He worked out of the main office on Madison Avenue in New York, and then eventually they moved offices to 301 East 66th Street. So I didn't go to the main office very often.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.Have you met Richard Kahn?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.When did you meet him?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.When he started working. I know he replaced -- there was a different accountant when I first started working, and he replaced him a few years in to my employment.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.How regular was your interaction with Kahn?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Again, pretty much the same thing. He worked in the Madison Avenue office. So it wasn't super regular.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.So, again, you were not represented by an attorney when your name was put in to a nonprosecution agreement by the Department of Justice?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Correct. I was never questioned by any Jaw enforcement, didn't have an attorney.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.You said that earlier. Have-you ever been questioned by law enforcement?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Not until 2019, for the first time ever.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.You were not questioned by any law enforcement before 2019?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Not a single. not a single law enforcement ever until 2019 for the very first time.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.Were. you aware that Epstein was considering pleading to something in an effort to wipe away all. of the crimes he had committed as of 2007? Were you aware that he was being investigated? Were you aware that there was a legal issue?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.And you had no knowledge that you were associated with his nonprosecution agreement?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.None.
p. 41Mr. Timmons.Has Richard Indyke ever represented you in any capacity?
p. 41Ms. Kellen.Darren Indyke?
p. 42Mr. Timmons.Sorry. Darren Indyke.
p. 42Ms. Kellen.Not officially, but he was --
p. 42Mr. Timmons.Did he create your LLC?
p. 42Ms. Kellen.He did, yes.
p. 42Mr. Timmons.So he did represent you. Has Richard Kahn ever done any work for you? Has he prepared your taxes?
p. 42Ms. Kellen.I don't know. I did my own taxes in the beginning.
p. 42Mr. Timmons.Did you ever submit any documents to Kahn's firm for the purpose of review?
p. 42Ms. Kellen.So I don't know if Kahn -- how much he was involved, but it was another accountant, who took -- like, managed all of the banking for SLK Designs and all the associated --
p. 42Mr. Timmons.And you were one of the plaintiffs that sued the estate?
p. 42Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 42Mr. Timmons.Did Indyke ever provide you any legal advice prior to -- outside of the LLC, has he ever provided you legal advice?
p. 42Ms. Kellen.He was kind. of like the liaison for hiring attorneys for me in so me of the civil cases. He basically was, like,“These are your attorneys," connecting me with them. He was the one who helped schedule-the dates for my deposition. He's the one that would give me documents to sign, not my ex attorneys, who were supposedly my attorneys. He was going to do it. MreTimmons. So did you ever sign a representation agreement with Darren Indyke?
p. 42Ms. Kellen.No. I remember he told me one time to, I think -- I don't know how -- I was subpoenaed for a deposition, and he told me to get my own attorney and that Jeffrey would pay for it. And then Jeffrey was upset with how much it cost, and he didn't want to pay his fees. So then he sent Darren and I an email that said, you know, "Can somebody tell me why we have this goofball lawyer involved at all?" And Darren replied, "It was my understanding that Brian required Sarah to have her own counsel, but I never understood why she needed her own attorney; like, of course, we can get rid of him." And so then they didn't pay his fees, and I couldn't afford to pay his fees, and then Darren arranged for me to have the same attorney as Jeffrey.
p. 43Mr. Timmons.I'm out of time, but I'm going to have so me followups. Thank you.
p. 43Ms. Brignac.Thank you, Ms. Kellen. That will conclude the majority's first hour of questioning. We'll go off the record. [Recess. ] Mr. a. We are on the record. I understand that one or more members has joined us. If they could please identify themselves for the record.
p. 43Ms. Boebert.Lauren Boebert. EXAMINATION BY wR. oe:
p. 43QGood morning, Ms. Kellen:
p. 43AGood morning.
p. 43QMyname is i. I'm going to be doing most of the questions today for the minority. As we proceed, I'm going to cover so me of the same topics that the majority covered with you in the previous round. I'm going to do that, not to make you repeat yourself but just to make sure we haveras clear a record as possible. Before I proceed, I'll also note that it's possible that so me of my questions today may call for answers that identify actual or potential survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell or information from which those survivors might be identified. To the extent that answers to any of my questions do contain such names or information, I'd ask on behalf of the minority that, prior to any public release of the transcript of this proceeding, the majority ensure that the names of any such survivors, as well as any information from which they could be identified, are fully redacted. And, with that, Ms. Kellen, you spoke during the previous hour about certain tasks that Jeffrey Epstein asked you to perform. I think it would be helpful if we could just get a fuller sense of the scope of your job duties when you were working for him and for Ghislaine Maxwell. Could you expound on those a bit?
p. 44ASo a lot of it was sourcing things for all of the houses. I would have to)go buy -- he would say I wanted new tea sets for Palm Beach. So then I'd have to go by; like, as many examples as I could and show it to him and get his approval and then go buy it. I had to put music on his MP3 player. I would have -- eventhough he had a private chef most of the time, he still had me make food for him. He liked the way I made his peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or his tomato mozzarella sandwiches. There were different projects that Ghislaine would give me. They would have -- had binders full of all the furniture in all the houses thatlisted, like, where they were from, how much they cost, and where they were located. They were constantly moving things around. So I had to update those. A lot of interior design work because he was always changing the houses. So I'd have to go look for fabric samples, source furniture, have things made. He liked to personalize all of his own, like, sweatpants with embroidery and American flag on it. So I'd have to’source those and have them embroidered. It was always something different. Like, he always had different tasks. Recovering his gym furniture in a special leather. Like, it was very -- it wasn't normal -- normal things. It was very over the top and things that, like, you know, weren't normal things for people to ask for. Yeah. It was just -- and each day was different depending on his whim and kind of what he required.
p. 44QIt's my understanding that part of your responsibilities included digitizing photographs. Is that right?
p. 45Ms. Hamm.Can you just speak up a tiny bit --
p. 45Ms. Kellen.Sorry.
p. 45Ms. Hamm.-- for those in the back? Mr. i. Sorry. Go ahead.
p. 45Ms. Kellen.Yes. Mr. a. I have just been advised that another member has joined us,.and if that member could please identify themselves for the record. Ms. a. He just stepped out. Mr. a. Sorry. BY MR. ee:
p. 45QReturning to the subject of digitizing photographs.
p. 45AYes. That was a project Ghislaine took on in the first few years of my employment.
p. 45QWhat did those photographs contain?
p. 45Ms. Hamm.To the extent they're photographs of yourself, you can talk about it. To the extent they're photographs of. objects in the house or the properties, the designs, that's fine.
p. 45Ms. Kellen.It was all. of their old photographs that Ghislaine had took film, Jeffrey's baby photos; basically any photos that they had, they would scan in and burn them to a disk and digitize them. Mr. a. Were any of those photos sexually explicit?
p. 45Ms. Hamm.You can answer if that's true for you.
p. 45Ms. Kellen.So me of them contained nude photos of myself. BY MR. ne:
p. 45QInterms of the work you did for Epstein and Maxwell, you spoke during the previous round about being based in New York for a period of time and in Palm Beach for a period of time. Am I correct about that?
p. 46AWhen you say based there --
p. 46QYou performed your work in those locations.
p. 46AI've traveled with them everywhere. So I would have traveled to all of their homesrwith them.
p. 46QJust so we have a complete list beyond New York and Palm Beach, what. other homes did you spend time at?
p. 46ANew York, Palm Beach, the island, the ranch, Paris, London. I.think that was all of them.
p. 46QThat's helpful. Thank you. Did the -- did your job duties vary from property to property depending on where you were at a given time, or were they pretty much consistent regardless of location?
p. 46AIt depended on if he was working on projects at a particular property. The island, he was always renovating, building new things, meeting with landscapers or interior designers, architects. So that would have been very much geared toward design at that property. New York was more running errands because that's almost -- you could access most of the things, buying things for the houses, and we would collect everything in his house there that would just wait for the next trip to the next house, and then I'd have to organize to, like, load the plane up with everything to take care of.
p. 46QI'd like to ask you so me questions about conversations you had with Jeffrey Epstein. Did heever talk to you at any point about his relationships with other women?
p. 46ANot really.
p. 46QDid he ever talk to you about his sexual activity with other women?
p. 46ANo.
p. 46QDid he ever tell you what kind of women were his type?
p. 46AI knew he was racist.
p. 47QWas that based on comments you heard or conversations you had with him?
p. 47AComments he would make.
p. 47QAre you able to be specific about that?
p. 47AHe had a -- he would always belittle. I feel bad even saying it because it's demeaning.
p. 47QIt's his words.
p. 47AHe would use a word, I believe, "schvartze," which I think meant Black people.
p. 47QInterms of his type, during the period of time when you worked for. him, did you have an understanding that he had a type?
p. 47AI me an, he had a bunch of models around him all the time.
p. 47QAnd were there sort of characteristics you observed;.l-me an, physical appearance, age?
p. 47ABeautiful.
p. 47QYoung?
p. 47AI me an, I was young, 22.
p. 47QWere any of them, to your observation, minors, under the age of 18?
p. 47Ms. Hamm.She's not going to talk about, you know, getting in to specific victims. And I think that would get in to specific victims, so she's not going to talk about that today. I'm sorry. She's notgoing to speak about -- you know, it's a transcribed interview. It's voluntary, and we'd liké,to limit her questions to her own victimization and not others -- Mr. I Understood. And, just to be clear, I phrased the question in general terms. I wasn't really addressing specific victims.
p. 47Ms. Hamm.I think it's easier for our purposes when we're trying to make that distinction to stop the questioning on those types of topics. BY MR. oe:
p. 47QDid Epstein ever tell you that he liked younger women?
p. 47ANot in -- no, not specifically in those words.
p. 48QDid he ever tell you that he liked teenage girls?
p. 48ANo.
p. 48Ms. Hamm.We -- we really have to be careful here in terms of -- she can speak to her own experience with him, but she can not speak to the victimization of other people. Mr. a. Well, again, I understand the distinction you're drawing. I'm carefully addressing my questions to Epstein's words and actions rather than the experience of his victims. BY MR. oe:
p. 48QAgain, this goes to the issue of type. In your observation, how many of the women that Epstein associated with were foreign?
p. 48AIt was a mix of -- yeah, there was foreign and American women around him.
p. 48QWere they Eastern European specifically?
p. 48ASometimes.
p. 48QDo you have an understanding as to. why there was a presence of Eastern European women in particular?
p. 48AI didn't really think about it.
p. 48QDo you know the. name Jean-Luc Brunel?
p. 48AYes.
p. 48QWho was-Mr. Brunel?
p. 48AHe was an owner of a modeling agency and friends with Jeffrey and Ghislaine.
p. 48Q“Was that agency MC2?
p. 48AYes. Mr. a. Apologies. I believe another member has entered the room. If that member could please identify themselves for the record.
p. 48Mr. Garcia.Representative Garcia.
p. 48Mr. Burlison.Eric Burlison, Representative from Missouri's 7th. Mr. I I'm sorry.
p. 49Ms. Kellen.That's okay. BY MR. ie:
p. 49QWhat was, to your understanding Mr. Brunel's connection to Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 49AThey were friends, and I know that Jeffrey invested in his modeling agency.
p. 49QDid Mr. Brunel, to your knowledge, recruit women or young girls to MC2?
p. 49AI believe he was a model scout for the -- for the agency.
p. 49QDid he then make those women available to Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 49AI know that he has introduced so me of his models to him:
p. 49QAnd did anyone, to your knowledge, ever pay Jeffrey Epstein for arranging sexual encounters or relationships with young women or girls?
p. 49ADid anyone pay Jeffrey?
p. 49QYes.
p. 49ANo, not to my knowledge.
p. 49QYou spoke in your opening: statement about flying on Jeffrey Epstein's plane as part of your role. Do you recall how many times you did that?
p. 49AHow many times I flew on Jeffrey's plane?
p. 49QYeah.
p. 49AIt was constant. So! couldn't give a number.
p. 49QAnd those trips were part of your job duties, if I understand correctly?
p. 49ACorrect.
p. 49QDuring the period of time that you were working for Jeffrey Epstein, did he ever travel without you, or did you always accompany him?
p. 49AI'm sure there were times without -- that I wasn't with him.
p. 50QWould you say you were with him for the majority of his trips?
p. 50AProbably the majority.
p. 50QInterms of the flights that you were on, did you ever witness sexual activity take place on any of those flights?
p. 50AI was abused on his planes.
p. 50QIt is my understanding that there was a directory that contains the names. of young women or girls who provided massages to Jeffrey Epstein. Am I correct about that?
p. 50AGhislaine had a directory that she and the IT guy at the time, she had him make a directory that contained all of their contact information.
p. 50QWas the directory hard copy, or was it stored electronically?
p. 50AIt was stored on an internal server that you could access through Citrix, so all of the employees and assistants could have access to it. And: then Ghislaine would have them printed in hard copy, I think, once or twice a year. And she-had a big printer and, like, a whole setup with a binding machine and a guillotine to, like, print them all and make them and then distribute them around all of the houses.
p. 50QWhere was the serverlocated?
p. 50AI'm not sure. [know the IT guy was based in Ohio. It was the same IT guy that worked for Les Wexner.
p. 50QWhat was his name?
p. 50Adon't remember right now, but it may come to me.
p. 50QIf it does, please let us know.
p. 50AI will.
p. 50QYou said that Ghislaine had hard copies of the directory printed one or two times a year?
p. 50AI remember the name. Sorry.
p. 51QThat's okay.
p. 51AMark Lundberg.
p. 51Q= Mark?
p. 51ALundberg.
p. 51QLundberg, L-u-n-d-b-e-r-g?
p. 51AYes.
p. 51QThank you. The hard copies of the directory you mentioned that Ghislaine Maxwell had them printed out once or twice a year, do you know how many hard copies were generated altogether?
p. 51AI don't.
p. 51QDo you know where they were kept?
p. 51AShe had them placed by all the phones in the houses.
p. 51QIn every house?
p. 51AEvery house.
p. 51QAnd did the directory only’contain the names of people who gave massages, or did it also contain the names of other individuals?
p. 51AIt was everybody that they knew. It was technically Ghislaine's directory. So she had it categorized by locations, and places. Basically, everybody they knew was in that directory.
p. 51QOkay. So it wasn't specifically a directory of massage providers?
p. 51ANo.
p. 51QAnd dol understand correctly that all of Jeffrey Epstein's staff had access to the directory?
p. 51AAll of the, like, New York assistants in the Madison Avenue office would have had access to it. I'm not sure if the house staff did. They would have had access to at least parts because I think there were other things stored on the Citrix server pertaining to the houses.
p. 52QAnd who added names to the directory over time?
p. 52AAll of the assistants. Ghislaine would usually give me, like, a stack of names and numbers and tell me, like, what category to enter them under as part of one of my tasks.
p. 52QI have a few questions about the Palm Beach house, and specifically the room in which massages were performed. To the best of your recollection, it's my understanding that there was an image. of a nude woman or women inside the massage room. Is that right?
p. 52Ms. Hamm.Sorry. To clarify, is this an image of you? You can answer the question if it's an image of yourself.
p. 52Ms. Kellen.There were drawings, like pencil drawings of; like, anatomy of people. Like, there were -- BY MR. i:
p. 52QWomen?
p. 52AMen and women.
p. 52QWere they sexually explicit?
p. 52ANot really. I remember it being, like, a torso, but there was, like, a pencil drawing, and I remember paintings of nude women in the bathroom.
p. 52QWere there any other depictions of nude women elsewhere in the house? Ms. Hamm: If they're depictions of you, you can answer. Or if they're, you know --
p. 52Ms. Kellen.There was a nude photo of me in the gym in Palm Beach. Mr. a. And, again, with respect to the massage room, did you ever see any sex toys or sexual paraphernalia inside the room?
p. 52Ms. Hamm.I don't think we can answer questions on that. Mr. a. Sorry. That's not addressed to victims.
p. 52Ms. Hamm.I understand the allegations that have been made, and she's not going to answer questions that go down that path. Mr. a. I think it would be helpful if we could define the path as we proceed.
p. 53Ms. Hamm.She's not going to answer questions about other victims, and questions specific to massages in Palm Beach could implicate other victims. Mr. a. Okay. So the entire category of massages?
p. 53Ms. Hamm.Yes. Mr. a. Okay. By Ms. ae:
p. 53QI have a few questions for you about Zorro Ranch. When’you were talking about your responsibilities, you said it mostly involved sourcing. That was predominantly in Palm Beach; that, in New York, it was a little more errands. Is that correct?
p. 53ANew York was mostly running errands to buy things for all the houses, various houses that he wanted and working on projects and kind. of collecting things for all the houses to when we went to each house next. So that was mostly-running errands in New York.
p. 53QWhat about Zorro Ranch?\What were your responsibilities related to the ranch?
p. 53AI remember him doingsome various renovation projects as well. He wanted -- one time, he wanted -- I believe it was. a=- I don't know if he commissioned a painting or wanted, like, a -- I don't know if he already, had the painting, but I just remember there was, like, a big project to get, like, a custom-made wooden frame made for it. Various things like that. I'm-trying to think specifically. Imean, I was just kind of always around to do whatever he told me to do.
p. 53QWould he ever have you travel to Zorro Ranch to work on these projects on your own or without him?
p. 53ANo.
p. 53QOkay. So you would only be there when you traveled with him?
p. 54AMostly. There were a couple times that he let me go there on, like, a vacation to use the ranch without him. Q- Gotit. Did you ever book anyone else's travel to Zorro Ranch?
p. 54AIt's possible.
p. 54QOkay. Do you have any -- do you have any memory of who that might've been for?
p. 54ANot specifically.
p. 54QAny memory of approximate timeframe?
p. 54AI me an, he usually went to the ranch once a year, in August It was kind of his typical month that he would go.
p. 54Ms. Hamm.Can I just clarify, on booking travel, do you me an on his airplane? Or commercial flights? Ms. a. Either.
p. 54Ms. Hamm.Or either? py ms. a:
p. 54QDid you do either?
p. 54AI would -- I arranged travel on his private plane. I was responsible for, kind of, coordinating the pilots‘and whoever else might be traveling with him and the chef and plane snacks and loading the plane and all of that type of thing. And he also had me book commercial flights.
p. 54QOkay. And for both the private plane and the commercial flights, you don't have a firm memory of who you may have been booking the travel for or -- I know you said once a year in August, but you don't have a firm memory of what years?
p. 54AFor booking travel, I don't have any specific recollections.
p. 54QOkay. I'm going to set those aside, and the ranking member is going to ask so me questions.
p. 55Mr. Garcia.Thank you. First, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. I know that you're going to be -- you've had a series of questions that you've been answering all day, so I do appreciate that. Just a couple questions that I just want to make sure get asked in this hour. I know that it's been publicly reported by the media that Jeffrey Epstein was a-visitor -- in so me media reports, a frequent visitor -- to Mar-a-Lago. Was this the case when you were working for Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 55Ms. Kellen.In the beginning.
p. 55Mr. Garcia.It was? Okay.
p. 55Ms. Kellen.He would use the gym a lot there.
p. 55Mr. Garcia.Okay. You said the gym out there?
p. 55Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 55Mr. Garcia.Okay. What was your overall understanding of Jeffrey Epstein's relationship to Mar-a-Lago?
p. 55Ms. Kellen.I knew that. he‘had been friendly with President Trump. I went with Jeffrey to the gym there a few times. I remember, one of those times, meeting Mr. Trump for, like, 5 minutes at Mar-a-Lago. That was my only encounter with him during my employment. I had seen photos of him -- them together around the houses. So I knew that they were friendly in that regard.
p. 55Mr. Garcia.And you would consider -- I me an, it's been reported that Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were friends. You would consider that to be an accurate reporting?
p. 55Ms. Kellen.I would assume so, from the photographs that I saw, but I -- I only met him one time in my employment at Mar-a-Lago for, like, 5 minutes.
p. 55Mr. Garcia.And the photographs you saw of the two of them, you saw those photographs in various locations?
p. 56Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.In what locations?
p. 56Ms. Kellen.Palm Beach, the ranch, New York. He kind of, like, had the same photos a lot-of the important, prominent people. He would display them in all the houses.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.So Zorro Ranch, Palm Beach, and then New York.
p. 56Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.Do you recall about when Jeffrey Epstein, sort of, stopped going to Mar-a-Lago?
p. 56Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.Can you give me more -- a little bit more information about that?
p. 56Ms. Kellen.It was pretty early on in my employment..I remember -- I don't know if I ever heard, like, him and Ghislaine talking or how I knew, but Trump banned him from going because he had hit on, like, a member's daughter or something along those lines.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.Uh-huh. And there was>=.I know that there's been public reporting that they had so me type of falling-out.
p. 56Ms. Kellen.There was also. a falling-out with a house that they were both bidding on in Palm Beach. And I believe Trump.-- well, I know that Trump won the bid, and there was a bit of contention there.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.So involving so me kind of real estate transaction, right?
p. 56Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 56Mr. Garcia.Okay. I know there's been reporting on that as well. Now, it's been reported that Mar-a-Lago was sending spa employees, usually young women, to the Palm Beach house to provide massages, manicures, other services. We know Ghislaine Maxwell is accused of recruiting and trafficking survivors there. This has been public reporting. Are you -- do you recall this?
p. 57Ms. Kellen.I don't recall that during my time.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.But you -- have you -- have you since then heard about the public reporting about that?
p. 57Ms. Kellen.I have.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.Okay.
p. 57Ms. Kellen.I have.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.Did you ever schedule appointments for any Mar-a-Lago employees to come to Jeffrey Epstein's home?
p. 57Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.So you, yourself, never scheduled any employee -- any appointments from Mar-a-Lago to Jeffrey Epstein's home. Is that correct?
p. 57Ms. Kellen.Not that I remember.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.But you have read the public re- -- are you aware of anyone else that scheduled any appointments for anybody from Mar-a+Lago to go to Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 57Ms. Kellen.I have read the accounts of Ghislaine meeting Virginia Roberts at Mar-a-Lago. And --
p. 57Mr. Garcia.Were you-aware at the time that Ghislaine had met Virginia?
p. 57Ms. Kellen.I wasn't aware of that story --
p. 57Mr. Garcia.» Okay.
p. 57Ms. Kellen.-- until I read it or heard about it in the press.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.But I'm assuming that you have met -- you have met Virginia at so me point.
p. 57Ms. Kellen.I don't remember meeting her. I am aware of there being two flight logs with us on it together. But other than that, I don't remember her.
p. 57Mr. Garcia.I'm going to -- thank you. We'll have additional questions on this topic a little bit later, but thank you.
p. 58Ms. Ansari.Thank you so much for being here. Did you ever hear about Epstein meeting with any prominent individuals?
p. 58Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 58Ms. Ansari.Can you name so me of those individuals?
p. 58Ms. Kellen.Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, Sarah Ferguson, Ehud Barak, Alan Dershowitz,-Leon Black.
p. 58Ms. Ansari.Are there any specific recollections of these individuals that you could provide or instances where you may have met them as well?
p. 58Ms. Kellen.I was on all the trips with President Clinton in Asia. and Africa. I remember seeing Leon Black at the New York house come. in for meetings. I believe we had a dinner with him in Paris one time. Bill Gates was at the New York house. Prince Andrew was at the New York house» We also went to Andrew's private apartment at Buckingham Palace for dinner. And we wererat Princess Beatrice's 18th birthday party at Windsor Castle. Ehud Barak visited quite often. We went to Israel with him one time. He would stay at a guest apartment in New Yorkof Jeffrey's quite often. Who else? Ms. Hamm; If I can interject, it might be easier for her to remember if there are specific names, and. we can just tick through them. Because I'm fairly confident there are more prominent people. than what she's named, but I just -- I'm not sure she can remember them all in the moment.
p. 58Ms. Ansari.So, to get to more specifics -- and you may have said these individuals -- were you aware of any meetings between Epstein and Andrew Windsor?
p. 58Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 58Ms. Ansari.Were you aware of meetings between Epstein and Donald Trump?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.Only the one time that I met him at Mar-a-Lago for, like, 5 minutes. Otherwise, I don't recall Donald ever being present.
p. 59Ms. Ansari.What about Epstein and Peter Thiel?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 59Ms. Ansari.Epstein and Steve Bannon?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.I heard about it, but I have never met Steve Bannon.
p. 59Ms. Hamm.Did you hear -- I'm sorry. Did you hear about it after the factor at the time?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.After the fact.
p. 59Ms. Hamm.Okay.
p. 59Ms. Ansari.While you were working with him, though?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.No. That was --
p. 59Ms. Ansari.It was later on?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.Yeah.
p. 59Ms. Ansari.Okay. Were you aware of any meetings between Epstein and Elon Musk?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 59Ms. Ansari.Okay. And you said "yes" to Bill Clinton and Bill Gates?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 59Ms. Ansari.And for, in particular, Bill Gates, I'm curious, what was your understanding of his relationship with Epstein?
p. 59Ms. Kellen.Jeffrey was very friendly with one of Bill Gates' associates, Boris Nikolic. They were quite friendly. And it's my impression that he was using Boris to get to Bill. I'm not quite sure what the discussions were or, you know, what he was trying to get from Bill, but he seemed to always, you know, want to be connected to the most powerful people. I remember being present at the New York house when Bill Gates -- there's a picture that there was online that I actually took of Bill Gates, Jes Staley, Lawrence Summers. I don't know if Leon was in that picture. But it was a group of, like, kind of, really powerful men meeting at his house in New York.
p. 60Ms. Ansari.And did you play a role in scheduling any of these meetings between Epstein and any of these individuals?
p. 60Ms. Kellen.Sometimes. It depended on, like, if it was on the weekends, if. his -- if the New York office was open or not. Lesley did most of the scheduling for his appointments like that.
p. 60Ms. Ansari.Okay. So if it wasn't you, it was Lesley.
p. 60Ms. Kellen.Most likely, or somebody else in the office.
p. 60Ms. Ansari.And, then, could you just describe the process by which you would go about scheduling these meetings? [12:19 p. m.]
p. 61Ms. Kellen.Myself? If he told me to call somebody and schedule a time, I would -- I would do it.
p. 61Ms. Ansari.Thank you. Mr. a. Mr. Frost?
p. 61Mr. Frost.Thank you. I'm Maxwell Frost. I represent Orlando, Florida's 10th. I have a couple of questions for you about Mr. Epstein's time in jailin Florida. From your perspective, did Epstein get any special treatment while he was in jailin Florida?
p. 61Ms. Kellen.Somehow he was able to Skype me from jail. before he got work release. He Skyped me from a computer and told me to undress for him: on camera. I don't know how that happened.
p. 61Mr. Frost.That was actually one of my questions as to video. Was it only one Skype call, or do you recall any more?
p. 61Ms. Kellen.Only one that I remember.
p. 61Mr. Frost.Are you awaré.of whether this was a common practice in the jail, or do you think he was given special treatment, to be able to Skype someone from with in the jail?
p. 61Ms. Kellen.I would assume he would've been given special treatment. I don't think that was a -- you know, I'm not familiar with protocols of jails, but that doesn't seem like it would be one of them.
p. 61Mr. Frost.Do you know how he arranged this, or did he ever discuss how that was arranged?
p. 61Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 61Mr. Erost.Was the call out of the blue, or was it scheduled?
p. 61Ms. Kellen.Out of the blue.
p. 61Mr. Frost.Was it his Skype account, or was it a different Skype account, if you remember?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.That's a good question. I don't remember.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Were you able to ascertain where in the jail he was? Was it like a jail cell, or was it a special room, or --
p. 62Ms. Kellen.I couldn't really see. It was just kind of like plain, white walls.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Are there other ways beyond the Skype call that you think he received special treatment in the jail in Florida?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.I know that he arranged to have cash and, like, Disneyland tickets taken to one of the officers in the jail, and I'm not sure what he received with that.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Do you know the officer's name?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.Michael Fox.
p. 62Mr. Frost.How'd you learn this information?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.The paralegal that worked for him'was the one to take the money to him.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Is that something they told you: kind of like -- like, oh, this -- like, what was the nature of them telling you this information? Was it just to kind of confide in you that it was weird, or was it like a part of your job to know?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.He was kind of griping about it because he lived far away and he had to go drive and drop it off.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Do-you know of that happening with any other officials or officers or people in the justice system, as it relates to his time in jail?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.Not specifically. I me an, he got work release for 12 hours a day. I feel like that seemed like pretty preferential treatment.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Did he ever talk about the process of how he got the work release?
p. 62Ms. Kellen.I know that he set up an office in West Palm Beach specifically for him to go to for work release that didn't exist before -- the Florida Science Foundation.
p. 62Mr. Frost.Uh-huh.
p. 63Ms. Kellen.It was right down the hall from one of his main attorneys in West Palm Beach, from Jack Goldberger's office. I'm not sure exactly what the Florida Science Foundation did.
p. 63Mr. Erost.Do you know if he ever Skyped or video-called other women or other people while he was in jail?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.I don't know.
p. 63Mr. Frost.Did you ever visit him while he was in jail?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 63Mr. Frost.Do you recall how many times?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.It was once a week until he got work release.
p. 63Mr. Frost.Did you ever meet Michael Fox while you visited-him?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.I feel like I did, but I just can't place where.
p. 63Mr. Frost.Did he ever talk about the preferential treatment at all or the Disney tickets or the cash or any offhanded comments or anything relating to that that you remember?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.Michael Fox?
p. 63Mr. Frost.Michael Fox.
p. 63Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 63Mr. Frost.Why did: you visit him?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.Because he told me to. Mr. Frosts He told you to come once a week?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 63Mr. Frost.What did you guys talk about when you'd go visit him?
p. 63Ms. Kellen.He would just talk about other inmates, kind of, notes that they would give him or things that they would say to him. He would mostly try and joke about the situation and, like, his circumstances, make light of it. I would usually go in with another -- another -- his girlfriend at the time, and then I would leave early so then they would have alone --
p. 64Mr. Frost.Wait. Say it again.
p. 64Ms. Kellen.I would usually go in alongside with his girlfriend at the time. We would go in together. And then I would be there for a shorter period of time, and then I would leave early.
p. 64Mr. Frost.Did you drive together there?
p. 64Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 64Mr. Frost.Did she ever talk to you on the ride there about the preferential treatment at all or anything relating his time in jail?
p. 64Ms. Kellen.Not -- not specifically that I can remember.
p. 64Mr. Frost.And when you'd leave a little earlier, would you-wait in the car for her?
p. 64Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 64Mr. Frost.Was there anything else that happened during those visits beyond the conversation?
p. 64Ms. Kellen.No. We would just sit outside, like, on a picnic bench, and he would be on one side, and we would be on the other side.
p. 64Mr. Frost.And was anyone-else present besides you and the girlfriend on any of the visits?
p. 64Ms. Kellen.Occasionally other people would go visit. I can't remember if we would all go at the same time or if they, would space it out in timing, but I do remember other people going around, like, at the same'time as me.
p. 64Mr. Erost.Do you remember any names?
p. 64Ms. Kellen.I'm pretty sure Jean-Luc Brunel. There was another man, Paul Prosperi, that went quite often. I think he used to be an attorney, but I'm not sure what -- I don't think he was, like, Jeffrey's attorney. I think just a friend. Maybe lgor Zinoviev. I know he was, like, his driver and bodyguard at the time. I don't remember if he went in specifically and saw him in jail or not.
p. 65Mr. Frost.Anyone else you can recall?
p. 65Ms. Kellen.His paralegal went in every single day, Story Cowles. He was there, I think, six times a week, all day.
p. 65Mr. Frost.Anyone else?
p. 65Ms. Kellen.Not that I remember right now.
p. 65Mr. Frost.Okay. Thank you. Mr. a. Mr. Subramanyam?
p. 65Mr. Subramanyam.I'm going to try my best to -- you'll have to tell me when I'm going outside the bounds of --
p. 65Ms. Kellen.Thank you.
p. 65Mr. Subramanyam.So I guess I just have a general. question. If the DOJ were to, let's say, reopen investigation in to this matter and offer you immunity, would you sit down with them and tell them everything you know?
p. 65Ms. Kellen.I have sat down with them and told them everything I know.
p. 65Mr. Subramanyam.Okay. And then if the DOJ were‘tovrelease -- as you may know, there are so me files that have not been released. Do you believe if the DOJ released them we would find out more information and more names of the people who participated in trafficking?
p. 65Ms. Kellen.I don't know. Mr..Subramanyam. And as far as your job responsibilities, did you ever take passports from anyone when they traveled, particularly, like, survivors?
p. 65Ms. Kellen.I've never taken anyone's passport or held on to it. Occasionally, if we were leaving the island or leaving, like, an international location, the pilots would need everyone's information ahead of time to pre-clear customs.
p. 65Mr. Subramanyam.Did you ever come across fake passports?
p. 66Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 66Mr. Subramanyam.Okay. And, then, did you ever facilitate any flights or meetings for Sarah Ferguson particularly?
p. 66Ms. Kellen.Potentially organizing meetings at Jeffrey's office in Palm Beach while he was-on work release and at the house in Palm Beach.
p. 66Mr. Subramanyam.I think there was so me talk earlier about Indyke and Kahn..Do you believe they were aware of what was going on, as far as the abuse?
p. 66Ms. Hamm.As far as her abuse?
p. 66Mr. Subramanyam.Or any of the abuse, but --
p. 66Ms. Kellen.They potentially would've seen my nude photos around the houses and -- if they went to visit Jeffrey, or visited so me of the houses.
p. 66Mr. Subramanyam.Did they ever ask you about Whether you were encountering any abuse?
p. 66Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 66Mr. Subramanyam.I guess you can‘say that you won't answer this, but did you ever meet Virginia Roberts Giuffre?
p. 66Ms. Kellen.I think I answered it earlier. I don't remember meeting her. But I have seen that there were two flight logs with us on it together.
p. 66Mr. Subramanyam.Okay. And, then; were you aware of any -- I guess you won't be answering this question, so never mind. Iguess that's all I have for now. Thanks. By vs. a:
p. 66QIf we could turn back to New Mexico for just a few minutes. Just to confirm, you believe that you did book so me travel, via both private plane and commercial planes, to Zorro Ranch, but you don't have a firm recollection of for who or what years?
p. 67Ms. Hamm.Can I ask you, do you have the flight logs? That might just help her jog her memory, at least for the Epstein flights. Ms. a. Just trying to get a general sense.
p. 67Ms. Hamm.Okay.
p. 67Ms. Kellen.Yeah, I wouldn't have -- it's so long ago, I wouldn't have specific, like, dates or -- yeah -- Ms. a. Okay.
p. 67Ms. Kellen.-- people. By vs. a:
p. 67QDid you ever overhear Epstein or Maxwell talk about New Mexico officials in the context of Zorro Ranch and their operations at Zorro Ranch?
p. 67AI knew they were friends with Governor Richardson of New Mexico.
p. 67QDo you remember how you learned: that?
p. 67AIt's possible he came to the ranch to visit. I feel like there was so me -- like, he -- I'm trying to think if there was any connection to him, like, owning so me of the ranch or property. I might be just getting it confused; but -- or, no, that was -- there was another Governor, I believe, that owned the ranch, but it might've not been Richardson. I know that they were friendly.
p. 67QDo you have any memory of them talking about law enforcement, specifically, in the context of the’ranch and their operations at the ranch?
p. 67ANot really, but in what capacity?
p. 67QGenerally or potentially, you know, providing protection for them or for others?
p. 67ANo.
p. 67QNo? Okay. Are you aware of any efforts to suppress or delay State-level investigations in to their operations at Zorro Ranch?
p. 68ANo.
p. 68QOkay. And then, finally, are you aware of any disappearances or deaths related to Zorro Ranch?
p. 68ANo.
p. 68QOkay. BY MR. oe:
p. 68QMs. Kellen, I just had a few followup questions for you regarding your discussion with the ranking member about your interaction with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. When did that encounter take place?
p. 68AIt was probably 2002 or 2003.
p. 68QAnd what was the reason for your being at Mar-a-Lago?
p. 68AJeffrey would go and use the gym there. I went with him one time, and Donald was there. I don't think he was in the gym, but he was, like, in another room at Mar-a-Lago. And we just went to say hello.
p. 68QAnd then this 5-minute interaction that you mentioned, what did you talk about with Donald Trump?
p. 68AI don't remember. It was just kind of more a "nice to meet you," I think, type of thing. It wasn't any specific topic.
p. 68QWas anyone else part of that interaction, or was it just the two of you?
p. 68AJust the two of us -- or Jeffrey, me, and Mr. Trump.
p. 68QIt's my understanding and it's been publicly reported that Jeffrey Epstein was ultimately barred from Mar-a-Lago. Is that your understanding as well?
p. 68AYes.
p. 68QDo you have any knowledge of the circumstances surrounding that decision?
p. 69AIt -- I believe it was because Jeffrey had hit on another member's daughter, and Trump banned him from going back.
p. 69QOkay. Do you know if that member's daughter was under the age of 18?
p. 69AI don't know.
p. 69QYou also mentioned during the course of your conversation with the ranking member that Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump had a falling-out involving a real estate transaction. Was Mr. Epstein's expulsion from Mar-a-Lago also a factor in their falling-out, to your understanding?
p. 69AI think it was probably both. Yeah. Twofold, kind of. Yeah.
p. 69QsO Did Jeffrey Epstein ever talk about that with you?
p. 69AWhich part?
p. 69QHis falling-out.
p. 69ANo. I just knew he was annoyed that he lost the bid of the house in Palm Beach that Trump won. By ms. i:
p. 69QJust really quickly on that, too, do you recall the name of the member whose daughter he --
p. 69ANo.
p. 69QOkay. I'm just going to ask a few questions on Ghislaine Maxwell. I know you covered so me of this earlier, sol'll try to skip over those parts. When you began working for Epstein and Maxwell, what was your understanding of their relationship to each other?
p. 69AThat they were dating and that she ran all of the houses and staff.
p. 69QSo when you started working there, they were romantically involved?
p. 69AYes.
p. 70QAnd when did that romantic relationship end?
p. 70AProbably around 2004, my guess.
p. 70QAnd Maxwell continued working for Epstein after they ended their relationship?
p. 70AYes.
p. 70QWhat, to your understanding, were Maxwell's duties for Epstein? I know you said earlier she, sort of, ran his life. What did that entail?
p. 70AShe hired all the staff. She oversaw all the houses, the running of the houses. She made a manual that she would distribute to all of the staff members, and so she. made the manual of all the duties to perform. She approved all the billing of all the houses, so she would have to go and, like, sign off on all the checks in the office and all the payments and things like that.
p. 70QDid her role change at all after their romantic relationship ended?
p. 70ANot really, not until she kind of started --shé mostly started distancing herself. She was around basically until about 2010, I want to say: During the time he was in jail, she wasn't around so much. Like, she only came once to visit hinon work release at the office.
p. 70QBut she was still involved in, like -- like, you still kind of reported to her.
p. 70AUh-huh. Yeah. Q- “At the office." Was that the Florida Science Foundation office?
p. 70AYes.
p. 70QAnd did you find it odd at all that she continued working for him after their relationship had ended?
p. 70ANo, because they were -- I me an, they were, like, the closest to each other and everything. Like, she knew everything about him and had access to everything and she ran everything.
p. 70QUh-huh. And you said earlier that you took over for i. which was her assistant. So, when you first started working for them, were you reporting directly to Ghislaine Maxwell?
p. 71AYes.
p. 71QAnd then after she separated a bit, you started reporting more directly to Epstein?
p. 71ACorrect.
p. 71QHow did your role differ when you were reporting directly to Ghislaine Maxwell?
p. 71AIt didn't differ a lot. She would have me doing a lot of personal things for-her, in addition to all the things for Jeffrey at the time, like picking up her dry-cleaningor. running errands for her, helping her unpack, and things like that. And then with Jeffrey, it was just more about him.
p. 71QAnd you said that when you were working for her in New-York you were working out of her townhouse. Is that correct?
p. 71AShe had an office in the ground floor of her house.
p. 71QOkay. And could you describe your routine when you were working out of that office in a little bit more detail?
p. 71ASo I would typically get there at 9:00 in the morning and go up to her office. She had an office on her third or fourth floor. And’she would give me a list of things to work on or things to go source or buy, different projects‘and things. And then I would go and try and get them done.
p. 71QWhen you werevat her apartment, did you see anyone coming in or out of the building or in and out of her apartment?
p. 71AThere-were two doors. There was the main do or and then a side do or to -- it was, like, the staff entrance and the entrance to the office. So it was kind of separate from her main -- her personalpart of the house.
p. 71QSo you don't recall seeing anyone from her personal life coming and going?
p. 71ANot really.
p. 71QDid you ever see other young women coming and going?
p. 71AThere were other few assistants that worked out of her house as well.
p. 72QWho were those assistants?
p. 72AIt will have their names redacted? Because they're not public.
p. 72QAnd they were -- those were just assistants, or they were victims of --
p. 72Ms. Hamm.Can we go off the record for a second? Mr. a. We can go off. [Discussion off the record.] Mr. a. Back on.
p. 72Ms. Kellen.And their names will be redacted? I'm sorry, I'm just protective. Mr. a. That's at the discretion of the majority, but that is-our request, as I noted at the outset of our hour. BY us. a:
p. 72QAnd how old were they at the time?
p. 72AIn their 20s or around the same age.
p. 72QAnd they did similar work. for Ms. Maxwell as you?
p. 72AYes.
p. 72QThank you. Just a few more questions. Are you aware of whether Epstein and Maxwell remained in contact after she stopped working for. him?
p. 72AI'm sorry?
p. 72QDid Epstein and Maxwell remain in contact after she stopped working for him?
p. 72AI'm not sure how much contact they had. The last time I remember seeing her was in 2010. Jeffrey had a big dinner at his house in New York after he got out of jail for, like, Yom Kippur, and she was present for that.
p. 73QOkay. So they -- it doesn't seem like they spent much time together, from your understanding?
p. 73ANot a lot after jail.
p. 73QDid you remain in contact with Ms. Maxwell after --
p. 73ANo. Q- --after she stopped working for Epstein?
p. 73ANo.
p. 73QAnd you never spoke to her again? You never saw her again?
p. 73AI don't remember any specific times that I did. I me an, potentially an email here or there, but I don't have any, like, specific recollection.
p. 73QOkay. And this would've been, like, after 2010,-you said?
p. 73ARight. The last time that I remember seeing her was in 2010 at that dinner.
p. 73QOkay. And when did you find out that Maxwell was arrested on charges of enticement of minors and sex trafficking of children in 2020?
p. 73AIt was either on the‘news or my attorneys at the time told me.
p. 73QRight after it happened?
p. 73AUh-huh.
p. 73QAnd what was your reaction to that?
p. 73ANot surprised.
p. 73QWhy were you not surprised? Based on your experiences?
p. 73ABecause I knew that she would introduce people to Jeffrey and I knew that she abused me. I always felt that she was instrumental in Jeffrey becoming who he became. I always felt like she kind of turned him in to the monster that he became, that she just fed him and catered to every whim that he wanted.
p. 74QWhen you say "introduced people to Jeffrey," could you describe that in more detail?
p. 74Ms. Hamm.You can speak about your own experiences with her and things she asked you to do for Epstein. But we're not going to talk about other victims, okay? You don't want to talk about -- you -- it might be helpful to explain -- and I know you've talked about it -- I know it's not my time to ask questions -- but it might be helpful for you to‘explain how she interacted with you when you first met her and why that colored your perception of her actions.
p. 74Ms. Kellen.I me an, she would, you know, always reiterate how powerful Jeffrey was and that I should listen to him and do what he says because clearly he knows best’and can help me. She was part -- you know, present and participated in my-abuse at least one occasion I can remember on the island. She would show me how to please Jeffrey, how. to massage his feet. That was one of -- one of my major tasks. I always had to have a bottle ofotion in my bag so I could massage his feet at any given moment. From what I had read about other reports online of accusations against her, I wasn't surprised. Ms. i. Okay. Thank you. And last question: Did Ms. Maxwell ever reach out to you at all after she was arrested?
p. 74Ms. Kellen.No. Ms. 7. Thanks.
p. 74Ms. Hamm.Can we get a time check, do you mind? Were you just doing a time check? Mr. a. Five minutes.
p. 74Ms. Hamm.Five minutes. Thank you. Mr. a. I think this would be a good time for us to end our hour.
p. 74Ms. Hamm.Okay. Mr. I So we'll go off the record. [Recess. ]
p. 75Ms. Brignac.We're ready to go back on the record. The time is 1:05, and the majority begins their second hour.
p. 75QMs. Kellen, we briefly discussed your compensation, but can you describe. how it fluctuated throughout your time working for Mr. Epstein?
p. 75AI started at $25,000 a year. I believe it got up to around $100,000 a year at one point. And then he cut everyone's pay when he went to jail, and it ended at $75,000 a year at the end of my employment.
p. 75QHow much did he cut your pay by?
p. 75AI guess it would've been 25 percent, if it was 100,000 and then 75,000.
p. 75QDid you receive compensation beyond that salary?
p. 75AHe would give me a few gifts through the -- through the years.
p. 75QDid he pay for your housing?
p. 75AHe gave me an apartment to live in. He had maybe 10 apartments that different staff members --
p. 75Mr. Timmons.Was that at 301 --
p. 75Ms. Kellen.-Yes.
p. 75Mr. Timmons.-- East 66th Street?
p. 75Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 75Mr. Timmons.Okay. Thank you.
p. 75Ms. Brignac.And did anyone live you at 301 East 66th Street?
p. 75Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 75Ms. Brignac.Who were your neighbors?
p. 76Ms. Kellen.In relation to Jeffrey, or? The pilots all had an apartment. His girlfriend had an apartment. The chef had an apartment while he had a private chef. Jean-Luc Brunel had an apartment.
p. 76Mr. Timmons.When did you move out of the apartment?
p. 76Ms. Kellen.2012, when I became engaged to my second husband.
p. 76Mr. Timmons.By 2014, there were seven different women living there. Did you overlap with any of them?
p. 76Ms. Kellen.I wasn't there in 2014, so I wouldn't have known who was. there.
p. 76Mr. Timmons.I don't know if any of them were still there. They-came right around that time. But there were no other women in your orbit while you were there in 2012? There were no other assistants?
p. 76Ms. Kellen.I know one of his girlfriends was still living there that I knew.
p. 76Mr. Timmons.Do you recall her name?
p. 76Ms. Kellen.a.
p. 76QAnd that's correct?
p. 76AYes.
p. 76QWhat were, the names of the other pilots and chefs that lived at the address?
p. 76ALarry Visoski, Dave Rodgers, Larry Morrison, Adam Perry Lang. I believe Darren Indyke had an apartment there, as well, in the beginning of my employment. I don't remember if any other chefs-lived there. And then, at one point, they used two of the apartments as offices, when he was in jail, to save money.
p. 76QWere you abused at this apartment?
p. 76ANo.
p. 77QDid he, Mr. Epstein, pay for your rent at that apartment, or did he place the apartment in your name?
p. 77AHe never put it in my name, although he always dangled that carrot in front of me. In the beginning of my employment, he said, "If you make it working 5 years with me, I'll put the apartment in your name." And that never happened. And then he kind of continued in the later years, as well; he kept saying he was. going to put the apartment in my name. But he never did. And then when he was kind of, like, pushing me out of the apartment. when I was engaged to Brian, I reminded him of his promises, and he just sort of ignored it.
p. 77Q"Brian" being Brian Vickers?
p. 77ACorrect.
p. 77QThank you. Did he pay for medical appointments?
p. 77AYes.
p. 77QDid Mr. Epstein pay for any. education?
p. 77AI don't believe I got any extra education when I was working with him.
p. 77QDid Mr. Epstein. offer you any personal loans?
p. 77AHe gave. me gifts. I didn't understand them to be loans.
p. 77QDid you ever ask for a personal loan?
p. 77ANo.
p. 77Q> Did any other associate of Mr. Epstein receive personal loans?
p. 77AAny other assistant of his receive loans?
p. 77QSure.
p. 77AI'm not sure.
p. 77Ms. Hamm.Can we pause for a second? [Discussion off the record.]
p. 78Ms. Kellen.Sorry. She wanted me to mention that he -- in the very beginning of -- before I started working, he asked if I had any debt, and he paid off my credit cards during, like, the very first interview I had with him that first week.
p. 78Ms. Brignac.Thank you.
p. 78Mr. Timmons.Approximately how much was that?
p. 78Ms. Kellen.Like, $1,500.
p. 78Ms. Hamm.Can I ask just -- I'm so sorry -- clarify one more thing on the medical appointments? You also received health insurance, right? So he would pay-for the doctor's appointments, and he provided medical insurance? Is that right?
p. 78Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 78Ms. Hamm.Okay.
p. 78Ms. Tolan.And you mentioned gifts; What type of gifts did you receive?
p. 78Ms. Kellen.He bought me jewelry, clothing. He gave me money on two accounts that I remember. He gave me a Mini. Moke for my birthday one year. Luggage, that sort of thing.
p. 78Ms. Tolan.And was the money -- that was just a gift? It was for no purpose specifically?
p. 78Ms. Kellen.So one was to help pay for my wedding. And then'thére was one that -- I went to see him in New York, and I was expressing how stressed I Was’at the time. My husband and I gutted our apartment in New York, and a few months after that he was in the hospital with emergency open-heart surgery, and he couldn't race anymore. He was a professional race car driver. So, like, basically he had no more income, and he had to pay -- like, he used his entire life savings to, like, try and rebuild the apartment. But then we couldn't get it back to livable, and we couldn't refinance without it being livable, and it was just this, like, super-stressful time. And I was telling Jeffrey about that, and he just got on the phone and told his accountant to wire me money, which I assumed was to help alleviate so me of that stress.
p. 79QMs. Kellen, back to the payment on the apartments, did you understand that the other associates of Mr. Epstein that lived there also had their rent paid, or was the apartment placed in any of their names?
p. 79AI'm not aware of them being placed in any of their names. And I never really understood, like, how it was -- like, I assumed Jeffrey owned the apartments, the way he, like, acted with them, but I never really understood who properly owned them or.=~’it was -- I think his brother and another -- they had a partner in the building, Anthony Barrett;-who Jeffrey was friendly with, but I didn't quite understand the dynamics of all of that.
p. 79QDid Mr. Epstein ever assist in setting up businesses for you?
p. 79ADarren Indyke helped me set up the-SLK Designs interior design company.
p. 79QDid Mr. Epstein ever use SLK Designs to help young women or girls acquire visas or passports?
p. 79AHe had me hire an. assistant that helped me with a design -- design project. She was an assistant. And she was hired under SLK Designs.
p. 79QCan you-describe the conversation to me that came about that taking place? Who told you to hire her?
p. 79AJeffrey.
p. 79QAnd who was the assistant? a
p. 79QOkay. Did you express any concerns about that hiring decision?
p. 79ANo, because she had gone to school for interior design, and she was helping a lot with sourcing furniture and fabrics and interior design projects.
p. 80QMs. Kellen, you've described your previous husband, Brian Vickers, and documents that the committee has reviewed reveal that Mr. Vickers did communicate with Mr. Epstein. What was Mr. Epstein's involvement in your relationship?
p. 80AI had not told Brian about my abuse in the beginning, and positioned Jeffrey as more of a father figure to him, because I was ashamed of disclosing what had happened to him. So: that's kind of the context that Brian viewed him. I think he -- like, Jeffrey wanted to be involved with our prenup and was giving advice on that. I don't think they had a lot of communication. I me an, I saw so me of the emails online, so me that I weren't aware of.
p. 80QWho introduced you to Mr. Vickers?
p. 80AI met him through one of my friends. Her husband was friends with Brian. And we met at a brunch in New York.
p. 80Ms. Tolan.And what was Mr. Epstein's reaction to you getting engaged and leaving your job as his assistant?
p. 80Ms. Kellen.He started getting more difficult towards me and being more dismissive of me. He, you know, was like, "When. can-you" -- "When are you going to move out of the apartment?" and was trying to kick me out of the apartment pretty quickly. He kept saying,"When are you going to go on Brian's health insurance?" And I was like, “We're not married yet. I can't go on his insurance until we're married." When’ wasn't traveling with Jeffrey 24/7, like I typically was, he was like, "This isn't working. We're going to have to cut your pay," or, you know, he just kind of became more hostile towards me just because I wasn't at his beck and call 24/7 anymore.
p. 80QMs. Kellen, I will now read a list of individuals that the committee has identified are associated with Mr. Epstein. At the request of your counsel, this will be a list -- so me of these might be repetitive from the minority's hour, but for clarity on the record, I'm going to run through them. For each name, please state whether you witnessed any inappropriate behavior from the individual. If the answer is "yes," I will not ask you to give information about the victim, though I might --
p. 81Ms. Hamm.I'm so sorry. Can I just clarify? You me an, like, inappropriate sexual behavior, not --
p. 81Ms. Brignac.Correct.
p. 81Ms. Hamm.-- being rude? Okay. Inappropriate sexual behavior.
p. 81QGhislaine Maxwell?
p. 81AYes, with myself.
p. 81QLes Wexner?
p. 81ANo.
p. 81QiBill Gates?
p. 81ANo.
p. 81QLeon Black?
p. 81ANo.
p. 81QAndrew Mountbatten-Windsor?
p. 81ANo.
p. 81QSultan Ahmed bin Sulayem?
p. 81ANo.
p. 81QLarry Page?
p. 81ANo.
p. 81QSergey Brin?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QLarry Summers?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QJes Staley?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QDoug Band?
p. 82AI'm sorry. Just to clarify, anything that I saw or was aware of of any\inappropriate --
p. 82QThe question was, anything you witnessed.
p. 82AWitnessed. Okay.
p. 82QDoug Band?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QElon Musk?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QSteve Bannon?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QRichard Branson?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82QGlenn Dubin?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82Q% Sandy Berger?
p. 82ANo.
p. 82Ms. Hamm.Can we stop there? Can you just clarify which Sandy Berger for her? Are you talking about Clinton official Sandy --
p. 82Ms. Tolan.Yes.
p. 82Ms. Hamm.-- Berger? There's somebody else in the files that we've seen, so I just wanted to clarify for her.
p. 83Ms. Tolan.The Clinton official, yes. Ms. Hamm, Okay. Thank you.
p. 83QWoody Allen?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QReid Hoffman?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QAlan Dershowitz?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QJean-Luc Brunel?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QEhud Barak?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QPresident Bill Clinton?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QSteven Sinofsky?
p. 83ANo.
p. 83QArethére any others that you witnessed conduct -- engage in sexual misconduct?
p. 83AOnly towards myself. Philip Levine, Frederic Fekkai.
p. 83Mr. Timmons.Can I jump in? So Philip Levine, when did you first encounter him? What year?
p. 83Ms. Kellen.Pretty much right away. The circum- -- the instance that I referenced was in -- it would've been in 2002 or 2003. Jeffrey and Ghislaine rented a house in Saint-Tropez for the summer, and Philip came to stay with them part of that time.
p. 84Mr. Timmons.And that's when the first instance occurred?
p. 84Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 84Mr. Timmons.And he sexually assaulted you? Is that what you said earlier?
p. 84Ms. Kellen.Correct, at the house and then again on the beach. We were kind of all walking, and I think it was Jeffrey and Ghislaine were kind of ahead of us, and then there was me and Philip. And then there was, like, this wooden kind of shack on the beach. And he just, like, grabbed my hand and pulled me in to the shack.
p. 84Mr. Timmons.Okay. So that's in 2002?
p. 84Ms. Kellen.2002 or 2003.
p. 84Mr. Timmons.And --
p. 84Ms. Kellen.It was pretty early on in my employment:
p. 84Mr. Burlison.Was this at the island?
p. 84Mr. Timmons.No. This was --
p. 84Ms. Kellen.It was in Saint-Tropez.
p. 84Mr. Timmons.What other further contact did you have with Philip Levine after 2003?
p. 84Ms. Kellen.I don't remember any specific contact that I had. I just knew that him and Ghislaine were very friendly. Mr. Timmons, So you never saw him again after 2003?
p. 84Ms. Kellen.It's possible I did, but I don't remember. MreTimmons. But in 2003 in Saint-Tropez, he -- I hate to ask you to do this, but can you give additional detail about the interaction?
p. 84Ms. Kellen.It was at night. Jeffrey and Ghislaine had gone to bed. And their bedroom was upstairs, and then Philip was staying in a bedroom downstairs. And we both were still awake. And he brought me in to his bedroom and said, you know, you must be so lonely, always with them and never -- not having your own life and kind of not being able to be with anyone, kind of, and was -- basically forced himself on me.
p. 85Ms. Brignac.Now, Ms. Kellen, the question was whether you witnessed any of those individuals engage in sexual activity, and you had prompted whether I was asking of your general awareness. Can you now answer whether you were aware of any of those individuals having engaged in sexual misconduct?
p. 85Ms. Hamm.Aware at the time she was employed for Epstein, not --
p. 85Ms. Brignac.Correct. Ms. Hamm, -- not based on reports that you've read now.
p. 85Ms. Kellen.I wasn't aware.
p. 85Ms. Brignac.Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein giving: cash to young women or girls? Ms. Hamm, I think we can -- this is where we understand what so me of the allegations are, so I don't want you to speak about victims.
p. 85Ms. Kellen.Okay.
p. 85Ms. Brignac.And understanding. the scope, for clarity on the record, are you refusing to answer that question?
p. 85Ms. Hamm.Yeah, I'm-asking her, based on the parameters that we -- that she's prepared to discuss today, and we don't want her to get in to other victims.
p. 85Ms. Kellen.And I would like to be able to answer all the questions, but I just -- I need to, like, listen to my. counsel.
p. 85Mr. Timmons.If you were to be given immunity by the Department of Justice or this committee, would you be willing to answer more questions?
p. 85Ms. Kellen.A hundred percent.
p. 85Mr. Timmons.Do you think that the answers to those questions would result in additional people being indicted and/or held accountable?
p. 86Ms. Kellen.I don't know. I me an, I don't --
p. 86Mr. Timmons.Can I direct that to your lawyer?
p. 86Ms. Kellen.Sure.
p. 86Ms. Hamm.Yeah. I think it's hard, because I'm not sure she knows what --
p. 86Mr. Timmons.Okay.
p. 86Ms. Hamm.-- DOJ knows, honestly.
p. 86Ms. Brignac.And I understand the scope, but for clarity on the record, we-have a few more questions. Did Ms. Maxwell or Mr. Epstein ever ask you to introduce young: women or girls to clients or friends of Mr. Epstein?
p. 86Ms. Hamm.I think you can answer that.
p. 86Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 86Ms. Brignac.Did you ever --
p. 86Ms. Kellen.I'm sorry. Could you just re-ask it? I'm sorry.
p. 86Ms. Brignac.Sure. Did Ms. Maxwell or Mr. Epstein ever ask you to introduce young women or girls to clients or friends of Mr. Epstein?
p. 86Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 86Ms. Brignac.Did, you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact of any kind with young women or girls?
p. 86Ms. Hamm., You can answer for yourself.
p. 86Ms. Kellen.Myself in the three instances I mentioned before with Ghislaine and then two other women.
p. 86Ms. Brignac.Thank you, but that wasn't the question. Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact of any kind with other young women or girls?
p. 86Ms. Hamm.Yeah, we're not going to talk about -- I don't want to put her in a position to talk about other victims. But she is able to talk about her own experience being victimized by him with other people present, if you want that information.
p. 87Ms. Brignac.And just for clarity on the record, you are refusing to answer that question?
p. 87Ms. Kellen.I am listening to my attorney.
p. 87Ms. Brignac.Thank you.
p. 87Ms. Hamm.These were the -- I me an, this was the scope. I appreciate the committee's position, but it is voluntary. And coming in here, we wanted to make sure that: she)was able to provide information to be helpful to the committee while protecting herself, and understanding that sustained questioning on so me of these topics is very difficult for her-to- get through.
p. 87Mr. Timmons.So, pre-2007, hundreds of people have beenidentified as victims, many of them underage -- somewhere between sex assault, solicitation, what not. He went to jail substantially for that. Afterwards, it seems that he did.\not pursue underage women, but he created a cult-like environment for a dozen women. You have been named as a victim, and you've received compensation from the estate and from many other legal settlements? Is that fair?
p. 87Ms. Kellen.From the estate and a class action suit.
p. 87Mr. Timmons.Okay. The purpose of this endeavor, which I am sure is very unpleasant to be a part of, is to try to find additional culpable individuals, to hold them accountable, to give the American people the trust that we aré.taking this matter very seriously and to make sure it doesn't happen again. So you have given us a new name that I did not have before, which is a man that later became mayor and ran for Governor and is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. So we got a new name of somebody that we can pursue accountability with.
p. 87Alot of people think that the lawyer and the accountant are also culpable. Do you believe that the lawyer and accountant, Kahn and Indyke, have culpability related to the crimes that Epstein was being prosecuted for and that Ghislaine Maxwell is currently serving 20 years in prison for? Do you believe that they have so me responsibility for facilitating those, for allowing this to happen?
p. 88Ms. Kellen.I don't know exactly what they would have known or not known. I feel like Darren would've been mostly the one to be aware of, kind of, all the inner workings, because he kind of had his hands in all the legal things. He was kind of involved in all the civil suits and hiring attorneys for me and --
p. 88Mr. Timmons.Was there a black bag of cash when you were in his orbitat. the time?
p. 88Ms. Kellen.Jeffrey traveled with a black bag, kind of like his briefcase, that had all his --
p. 88Mr. Timmons.Did he pay people out of that bag in cash?
p. 88Ms. Hamm.If it doesn't implicate victims -- you can answer-to the extent it doesn't implicate victims.
p. 88Ms. Kellen.I don't know what all he used the cash for.
p. 88Mr. Timmons.You don't have to answers. That's fine.
p. 88Ms. Kellen.Yeah.
p. 88Mr. Timmons.Did you ever witness -- were there other powerful people that were in your orbit that you had experience with-that were in a situation that caused you to question their presence around Epstein? .Did people come to the island and leave with someone and come back? I me an, you can only say what you've seen, but have you seen other women that possibly would be victims having encounters with people of power or influence? Have you seen anything like that?
p. 88Ms. Kellen.I did not.
p. 88Mr. Timmons.Okay. Have you considered suing or pursuing criminal charges against the former mayor of Miami that you said sexually assaulted you?
p. 88Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 89Mr. Timmons.He'll probably write you a check. Go ahead.
p. 89Mr. Burlison.In your deposition, you said that, being in Epstein's orbit, you were in a situation where you even feared for your life, or that you thought that you knew that everything would end, everything you knew in the world, even your life. Later, you said that there were two FBI agents that kind of validated Jeffrey's claim -- they were not validating it. When you witnessed his interaction with those agents, that) in your mind, was validation of his claim -- or the appearance that he could control any law enforcement agency.
p. 89Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 89Mr. Burlison.So I want to kind of dive in to that. Can you go in to greater detail about that event at the airport with the two FBI agents? What did they look like? Did you overhear any of the conversation? What exactly happened?
p. 89Ms. Kellen.So we were leaving the island, and we have to pre-clear customs in St. Thomas in the airport. And there was a handler that usually, like, will bring us in and handle our luggage and we give our IDs. And I just remember standing with -- it was, like, me, Jeffrey, and his girlfriend and I think one other guest. And the handler-comes up to us and says, "There's FBI agents here that want to talk to Sarah and i.” And I feel like I could -- I saw them from a distance, but they were kind of far away. And Jeffrey's like, "Wait here," and he went and spoke to them. And then 10 minutes later he comes back, and he's like, "Okay, let's go." And, like, then we all just walk on the plane, and then he never says anything else about it, and nothing else happened.
p. 89Mr. Burlison.Why do you think those agents wanted to talk to Sarah and i?
p. 89Ms. Kellen.I knew he was being investigated at the time, so I --
p. 89Mr. Burlison.Were they under age at that time?
p. 90Ms. Kellen.Who?
p. 90Ms. Hamm.No, it was -- they wanted to talk --
p. 90Mr. Burlison.To you and -- I'm sorry -- Ms. Hamm, -- to Sarah and to i.
p. 90Mr. Burlison.Okay.
p. 90Ms. Kellen.Myself.
p. 90Mr. Burlison.Okay. Did you ever schedule any meetings, any calls with Epstein with individuals who might've been in any of the intelligence agencies from the United States?
p. 90Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 90Mr. Burlison.Did Epstein have other interactions that, you're aware of with other government officials in the intel- -- whether it's FBI, CIA?
p. 90Ms. Kellen.I me an, other than, like, Bill\Clinton or Prince -- I me an, that's not U.S. I know he was friends with George Mitchell. He remained friendly with Matt Menchel after his jail time, who I think was one of the prosecutors in his first case.
p. 90Mr. Burlison.Okay. Any foreign contacts?™! know that you mentioned that you had -- there was multiple interactions with Ehud. Barak.
p. 90Ms. Kellen.-Uh-huh.
p. 90Mr. Burlison.Did those visits include security? Were there other officials at these meetings as well?
p. 90Ms. Kellen.Ehud definitely had security. He would visit his house in New York, and Ehud also stayed at one of the apartments at 301 when he visited.
p. 90Mr. Burlison.Did any of those -- were any of those meetings of a business nature? Were they -- were they just only personal and social in nature?
p. 91Ms. Kellen.I'm not sure what the nature was exactly. I also remember there was an associate of Ehud -- Yoni Koren, I believe, was his name -- that Jeffrey was paying for his medical bills in New York. And he had me go to the hospital and pay cash for his procedures, for -- on behalf of Yoni Koren.
p. 91Mr. Burlison.Did Jeffrey ever discuss or reference working with or being protectedby; like, intelligence services or other governments?
p. 91Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 91Mr. Burlison.Okay. How did he handle his own personal security during travel?
p. 91Ms. Kellen.He didn't really have security in the beginning.-When he went to jail the first time, he had his personal trainer, Igor Zinoviev, kind of became, like, his driver-slash-bodyguard for a while after.
p. 91Mr. Burlison.Uh-huh.
p. 91Ms. Kellen.But other than that, he didn't really have, like, a proper security detail.
p. 91Mr. Burlison.Was Ghislaine'sfather, Robert Maxwell, was his name ever -- was it brought up in that relationship?
p. 91Ms. Kellen.Not really. I remember -- I remember Ghislaine -- there was, like, a book about her father that she gave. a copy to Fidel Castro when we were in Cuba. But I don't know that there was a lot of conversation, necessarily. Like, I knew that the yacht -- his yacht was named after her. I didn't ever really kind of research or understand what the -- what he -- who he was or what he -- Lknow he was accused of, like --
p. 91Mr. Burlison.Uh-huh.
p. 91Ms. Kellen.-- stealing money from his employees, and they weren't sure if it was either a suicide or a murder in his death on the boat.
p. 91Mr. Burlison.Were there any -- in any of the meetings with people from the Middle East, were there any transfers of any kind of information or tech?
p. 92Ms. Kellen.He was very friendly with Sultan bin Sulayem. I think that they were both invested in, like, a yacht company. I don't -- I don't know if there was, like, particular information that was -- I think they were, like, both invested in this, like, American yacht company.
p. 92Mr. Burlison.Okay. Thank you.
p. 92Ms. Kellen.Yeah.
p. 92Ms. Boebert.So you had testified that you had fairly extensive interactions)with President Clinton. Did President Clinton know that you were being abused by Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 92Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 92Ms. Boebert.In your testimony, it seems that you were. made to be available at all times at Jeffrey Epstein's pleasure; he would wake you up in the middle of the night, even. And so did these interactions happen on his plane?
p. 92Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 92Ms. Boebert.And were other people present on the plane when that abuse would occur?
p. 92Ms. Kellen.It wasn't in front of them. He had a bedroom in the back with a do or on it.
p. 92Ms. Boebert.And was. anyone suspicious of what was -- of the interactions that were happening behind the closed: do or?
p. 92Ms. Kellen.I don't know. No one ever really spoke about things. Like, he kind of made sure we were all kind of separate and didn't talk to each other and was very strategic about that.
p. 92Ms. Boebert.Were you not allowed to -- were you, specifically, or anyone working for Jeffrey. Epstein not allowed to speak with the guests or friends that he had on the plane? Or no one talks on the plane? How was that separation made?
p. 92Ms. Kellen.It would've -- wouldn't have -- I me an, we would just talk about surface things, but nobody spoke about anything private.
p. 92Ms. Boebert.And did anything sexual ever happen at all in the presence of Bill Clinton?
p. 93Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 93Ms. Boebert.Was he on the plane at the time when he would bring you in to a room and abuse you? Was President Clinton on the plane when Jeffrey Epstein would bring you --
p. 93Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 93Ms. Boebert.-- in to a room and abuse you?
p. 93Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 93Ms. Boebert.Never once were you abused on a plane while President Trump -- or, excuse me, President Clinton was onboard?
p. 93Ms. Kellen.No. [1:37 p. m.]
p. 94Ms. Boebert.President Clinton testified that he did not have a friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. Do you believe that Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Clinton were friendly and did have that friendship?
p. 94Ms. Kellen.They seemed to be friendly for a short period of time, around the times that Jeffrey flew him around Asia and Africa. But it wasn't -- it didn't seem like it lasted or was anything kind of more beyond that time period.
p. 94Ms. Boebert.Were you ever in contact with President Clinton in arranging. trips or flights --
p. 94Ms. Kellen.I was on all --
p. 94Ms. Boebert.-- or meetings?
p. 94Ms. Kellen.I was on all the flights with Mr. Clinton -- President Clinton.
p. 94Ms. Boebert.Were you ever a part of the -- were you ever the one to arrange the meetings between Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 94Ms. Kellen.No. No. It would've -- like for those particular trips, it would've been -- I think Ghislaine mostly organized with his staff the scheduling of those.
p. 94Ms. Boebert.While Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Clinton were friendly during that short period of time, did you see them togetherand witness their interactions?
p. 94Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 94Ms. Boebert.What was it, if you can recall, that they had spoke about?
p. 94Ms. Kellen.I don't remember specifics of what they spoke about, but, I me an, I was present with them on'the planes and various -- like the Sultan of Brunei's house, we went and had lunch there. We were together in President Clinton's hotel room in Brunei, in the pool.
p. 94Ms. Boebert.Were you abused in the hotel room at the time while Bill Clinton was there?
p. 94Ms. Kellen.No, not -- definitely not with Bill Clinton there. I don't remember if anything happened privately with Jeffrey on that trip.
p. 94Ms. Boebert.Did any other -- did any other men ever approach you with a desire to be connected with women or girls?
p. 95Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 95Ms. Boebert.You had mentioned there were at least three other abusers. Are those the only three other abusers or were you abused by anyone else?
p. 95Ms. Kellen.Jeffrey, Ghislaine, Philip Levine, and Frederic Fekkai. Patrick Demarchelier, nothing happened, but he tried.
p. 95Mr. Burlison.Who?
p. 95Ms. Boebert.What was that name again?
p. 95Mr. Burlison.What was the name of the last person?
p. 95Ms. Kellen.Patrick Demarchelier. He was a famous fashion’photographer.
p. 95Ms. Boebert.And you said nothing happened, he tried?
p. 95Ms. Kellen.He walked over to me with his pants down, and I refused to --
p. 95Ms. Boebert.And he accepted your refusal?
p. 95Ms. Kellen.[Nonverbal response.]
p. 95Ms. Boebert.I'm sorry, I know that's uncomfortable for you to relive. I'm not trying to be harsh in my questioning. And in any of these=- did you -- so you said you never connected any men with girls --
p. 95Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 95Ms. Boebert.-- ever?
p. 95Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 95Ms. Hamm.Sorry. To clarify, you never connected any of Jeffrey Epstein's associates with other girls. You were never --
p. 95Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 95Ms. Hamm.Yeah. Okay.
p. 95Ms. Boebert.When I made that statement, I did me an associates of Jeffrey Epstein.
p. 96Ms. Hamm.Yes.
p. 96Ms. Boebert.Thank you for clarifying.
p. 96Ms. Hamm.Sure.
p. 96Mr. Burlison.Can you describe Jeffrey's relationship with Hillary Clinton?
p. 96Ms. Kellen.I never met her, so I'm not sure. I'm not aware of a relationship that they would've had.
p. 96Mr. Burlison.Did you ever schedule any meetings between the two?
p. 96Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 96Mr. Burlison.Okay.
p. 96Ms. Boebert.I think that's all I have for now.
p. 96QOkay. Thank you, Ms. Kellen. In 2005, police in Palm Beach, Florida, began investigating Mr. Epstein. And in July 2006, Mr. Epstein was arrested for the first time for soliciting prostitution from minors. When did you first become aware of the investigation in to Mr. Epstein?
p. 96A2005.
p. 96QHow did you become aware?
p. 96AI don't think I can say. Ms. Hamm: Yeah. I think that this implicates another victim, unfortunately. But why don't -- you can give the -- why don't you give the approximate time period. Was it before or after the search warrant?
p. 96Ms. Kellen.Before.
p. 96Ms. Hamm.Okay.
p. 96Ms. Brignac.Did someone tell you about the investigation?
p. 96Ms. Hamm.I think she can't discuss the specifics. [Discussion off the record.]
p. 97QDid someone tell you about the investigation?
p. 97AYes.
p. 97QIt was a victim?
p. 97AI don't --
p. 97Ms. Hamm.We think this may, based on allegations, implicate a victim But I think you can say generally how that information got to you. Was it by phone? Was it by email? Did somebody come and talk to you?
p. 97Ms. Kellen.By phone.
p. 97Ms. Brignac.Okay. Did you believe at that time that the allegations were true? Ms. Hamm, I don't think at that time she knew the allegations.
p. 97Ms. Kellen.Exactly. I wasn't sure what the. allegations were.
p. 97QI'msorry, could you repeat. that?
p. 97AI didn't know what-the allegations were at the time.
p. 97QWhen did yourfirst hear about the allegations?
p. 97AI don't know exactly. Jeffrey kind of presented it all that he was the victim, that he was being taken advantage of by, like, unscrupulous women that were out to get his money and in cahoots with each other, that their attorneys were out to extort him. He would give me examples of Scott-Rothstein making up false civil suits, that he forged a judge's signature and, like, was committing fraud and like getting investors to pay off these settlements that didn't exist. And he was like, see, they're making it all up.
p. 97QDid you believe him?
p. 97AI did.
p. 98QWhy?
p. 98ABecause I only had his side, his reference. Nobody questioned me, nobody approached me, so I only had his narrative.
p. 98QGiven that he was abusing you, why did you think that these other victims were not being truthful?
p. 98AI didn't view my abuse at the time -- I didn't blame him. I blamed myself; because I never spoke up. I never said no. I never fought. I chose -- I know like a traumaresponse is usually fight, flight, flee, or freeze, and I chose fawn, to kind of appease him, to stay. on his good side and be safe.
p. 98QOn October 20, 2005, police executed a search warrant for Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach, Florida, home. Were you present for this search?
p. 98ANo.
p. 98QWhen did you learn that his homeshad been raided?
p. 98AI don't recall how I found out. dt. may have been one of the house staff members. I don't really have a recollection.
p. 98QDid anyone tip Mr. Epstein off to the search warrant?
p. 98AI don't know.
p. 98QAre you aware of any items being removed from Jeffrey Epstein's Palm Beach residence prior to the raid?
p. 98AYes. He called another assistant and told her to go to the house and remove the computers from the house.
p. 98QWho was that assistant? a
p. 98QWhat did he tell her?
p. 98AI just overheard him on the phone with her, so I vaguely -- the gist was like, go to the house and take the computers, and it was my understanding she was to give them to his attorney.
p. 99QDo you know how Mr. Epstein became aware of the search warrant?
p. 99AI don't.
p. 99QCan you describe what he instructed her to remove from the property?
p. 99AAs far as I remember, just the computers.
p. 99QDid you witness her remove these items from the property?
p. 99ANo. I was on the island with him when he called her.
p. 99QHow did you overhear the phone call?
p. 99AI was in front of him.
p. 99QDid you learn that the items had, in fact, been removed from the property?
p. 99AI assumed they did, and I've read articles about: it; so I don't -- I assumed it happened.
p. 99QDo you have any firsthand knowledge that the assistant was complicit in removing the items from the property? Did the assistant everrtell you --
p. 99Ms. Hamm.Did you know that -- d@you know if she did that?
p. 99QAnd I'm going to ask that one more time so it's clear on the record. Did the assistant or anyone else ever tell you that-she had, in fact, removed the items from the property?
p. 99AI don't remember.
p. 99QDid you hear if anyone else removed the items from the property?
p. 99Ms. Hamm., Like at the time, not what you've read since then.
p. 99Ms. Kellen.It's hard to remember exactly what I knew at the time versus what I've read.
p. 99QWhat is your understanding of why he wanted those contents removed from the property?
p. 99AI don't know.
p. 100QWere items or records intentionally destroyed or withheld from the police as part of the investigation?
p. 100AI don't know. I remember, I think it was Valentine's Day, because I was having dinner with my then-boyfriend, and Jeffrey called me and had me come -- leave the dinner and meet him-at his house in New York. And he had lawyers there. Darren Indyke was there and a few of his‘other attorneys, and he told me to gather various things from the house and give it to his attorneys.
p. 100QCan you list those items for me?
p. 100Ms. Hamm.One second.
p. 100Ms. Brignac.Can we go off the record? [Discussion off the record.]
p. 100Ms. Brignac.We can go back on the record.
p. 100Ms. Hamm.We're just confirming on the victim piece of it. [Discussion off the record.]
p. 100Ms. Brignac.I'm going to ask the question once more for clarity on the record. Were items or records ever intentionally destroyed or withheld from the police as part of this investigation? You said, yes, that items -- you were’called and asked to turn over items to the attorneys. I asked you to list those items.
p. 100Ms. Hamm.Can we just clarify, in terms of intentionally withheld from the police, I'm not sure at the time you understood why you were collecting this information?
p. 100Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 100Ms. Hamm.You were asked to go. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but --
p. 100Ms. Kellen.Correct. I was just asked to go around the house to collect to give to the attorneys, so I don't -- I didn't know the purpose or what they were going to do with those items. I didn't understand it, that it was intentionally trying to --
p. 101QUnderstood. You received an instruction from your boss to remove items from the property. Did this --
p. 101AI didn't remove it. I just was gathering it from all the floors in the house and putting it in the dining room for the attorneys. I don't know what they did with it.
p. 101QOkay. Can you list the items that you gathered in the dining room?
p. 101ADirectories and printed photographs.
p. 101QWhich directories?
p. 101AAll the ones -- Ghislaine's directory that she had printed and were all around the houses.
p. 101QAnd which photographs?
p. 101Ms. Hamm.We're going to ask her not to get in to the specifics of the photographs, because I think that, based on the allegations that we've heard, could implicate other victims.
p. 101QFor the record, are you refusing to. answer that question?
p. 101AI would like to answer that question, but I need to listen to my counsel.
p. 101Mr. Timmons.And again, for the record, if she had immunity, would she be able to answer that question?
p. 101Ms. Hamm.Yes.
p. 101Ms. Brignac.Who instructed you -- Ms. Hamm: Oh, I'm sorry, if I can jump in. And I want to be clear, because I think sometimes when people talk about immunity, there's so me confusion. This would be use immunity. I me an, I know. that'you know this, Congressman. But this would be use immunity; it's not transactional immunity. She would be able to speak about item -- you know, speak about issues to this Committee. But it's not transactional immunity.
p. 101Ms. Kellen.I don't know what any of that means.
p. 101Ms. Hamm.I know you don't, but it's -- it's fine. Go ahead.
p. 102QWho instructed you to gather these items for the dining room?
p. 102AJeffrey.
p. 102QAnd what was your understanding of why these items were to be gathered?
p. 102ATo give to his attorneys that were working on his case.
p. 102QHow long after that instruction did the raid take place?
p. 102AI don't believe his New York home was ever raided until 2019.--
p. 102QOkay.
p. 102A-- which would've been sometime probably in 2006;
p. 102QWere you aware of security cameras on Mr. Epstein's properties?
p. 102AHe had cameras in the New York house that were directed out on the street, but I don't recall any cameras being inside at the New York: house. They were all at different angles of the street. In Palm Beach, he had noticed someone that was stealing cash out of his bag a few times, and he had the Palm Beach police come help put in like two hidden cameras by his -- like one by his desk and one I think in the garage to, try-and catch whoever was like breaking in and stealing his money. And they caught the old house man that they had fired sneaking in and stealing.
p. 102QWas camera footage ever turned over to the police or FBI?
p. 102AI don't recall exactly what happened with that footage or -- yeah.
p. 102QDid you have access to the camera footage?
p. 102AI don't remember, but I think it was -- I think it had gone to one of the computers. There's an office off the kitchen. There was a desktop, and I'm fairly certain it somehow was connected to that computer.
p. 102QAnd, Ms. Kellen, there have been allegations that the camera footage has been used for blackmail purposes. How do you respond to that allegation?
p. 103AI'm not aware of any blackmailing.
p. 103QAnd are you aware of whether computer hard drives were removed from the Palm Beach residence prior to the raid of the Palm Beach residence in October 2005?
p. 103AOnly what I just described as him telling his other assistant to remove them.
p. 103Mr. Timmons.You've described physical violence, choking and other physical interactions. Did any of those interactions result in visible bruising, abrasions, cuts to your --
p. 103Ms. Kellen.[Nonverbal response.]
p. 103Mr. Timmons.No?
p. 103Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 103Mr. Brignac.You referenced gifts that Mr. Epstein received-while he was imprisoned. Who provided these gifts to Mr. Epstein? Ms. Hamm, I don't -- I think she mentioned that he sort of -- what she interpreted to be sort of special favors, like Skypes. And that you understood that, at his direction, gifts were being given to people, not to Mr. Epstein, but he was giving gifts to others.
p. 103Ms. Kellen.Right.
p. 103QThe cash and Disney tickets were for someone else from Mr. Epstein. Is that correct?
p. 103ACorrect.
p. 103QOkay. Were massages a part of Mr. Epstein's routine day?
p. 103Ms. Hamm., Yeah, I think we're going to avoid massages. Just, again, I know what the allegations are in this case, and I don't want her to get in to other victims.
p. 103Ms. Brignac.And for the record, are you refusing to answer the question?
p. 103Ms. Kellen.I would like to answer all the questions, I really would, but I need to listen to my counsel.
p. 103Ms. Brignac.How was contact information for the masseuses procured?
p. 104Ms. Hamm.This is the same issue.
p. 104Ms. Brignac.And for the record, are you refusing to answer the question?
p. 104Ms. Hamm.I'm asking her, just based on the scope that we laid out and given that this is a voluntary interview, to avoid certain topics. And I hope that people do not infer anything by her silence. She wishes, as she's mentioned many times, that she could talk on these topics. But-this is not -- unfortunately, has not been presented to her in a format in which that is possible.
p. 104Mr. Timmons.But should this Committee provide immunity, she would-be able to answer those questions?
p. 104Ms. Hamm.Yes.
p. 104Mr. Timmons.Okay.
p. 104Ms. Brignac.Can you provide the Committee with an age range of the masseuses that came to the house?
p. 104Ms. Hamm.This is the same issue. Thank you.
p. 104Ms. Brignac.For the record, are yowrefusing to answer the question?
p. 104Ms. Hamm.For the record, I've’asked her, based on the scope that she's prepared to discuss today, to not answer these questions. But as she's mentioned many times, she would prefer to be answering them.
p. 104Ms. Brignac.Is that a yes?
p. 104Ms. Kellen.I need to listen to my counsel's advice.
p. 104QMs. Kellen, are you familiar with the birthday book that was compiled for Mr. Epstein’ 50th birthday in January 2003?
p. 104AYes.
p. 104QWhat was your role with the birthday book?
p. 104AI helped put it together to kind of scan in all the entries and take it to a binders to -- that bound it in to a leather bound. I think there were two or three books that it entailed.
p. 105QDid you make a submission to the birthday book?
p. 105AI did. [Kellen Majority Exhibit No. 1. was marked for identification.]
p. 105QI would now like to introduce Majority Exhibit 1. This is a letter from. a book that was compiled as a gift for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday in January 2003 by Ghislaine Maxwell. I'll give you a moment to review, and please let me know when you're ready.
p. 105Ms. Hamm.Is there a certain page you want her to look. at-or just the whole thing?
p. 105Ms. Brignac.The whole thing.
p. 105QReady?
p. 105AUh-huh.
p. 105QThe Committee is aware. that these letters and pictures contain redactions. However, the unredacted version of the photo on page 4 has been made publicly available and, therefore, the Committee believes the submission to be made by you. Is that correct?
p. 105AIt's not my submission, but this is the photo of me and him.
p. 105QWho submitted this compilation of letters and photographs?
p. 105AIt was another assistant.
p. 105Ms. Hamm.It's fine. We'll ask for --
p. 105Ms. Kellen.a.
p. 105Ms. Hamm.-- redactions at the end.
p. 105Ms. Brignac.a. Did Ms. Maxwell provide -- iii provide you with any instructions or suggestions for what you should write in the birthday book?
p. 106Ms. Kellen.I me an, she's the one that asked for us to give submissions. I didn't even remember what I submitted until I saw it in the files. I think she did help with kind of the reference of what I submitted.
p. 106Ms. Tolan.And what was your submission?
p. 106Ms. Kellen.It was also, like, photographs of me in a bikini, and I think it was like showing gratitude, basically saying that I was like nothing. I don't remember the exact words,-but it was -- like the gist, like I've -- you know, I had nothing, I'm grateful for kind of what you've'given me sort of thing.
p. 106Ms. Brignac.Alongside those bikini photos, the entry states, and quote, "And thought you might like, ellipses, so me bikini shots." Did you write this?
p. 106Ms. Kellen.No. In this submission, no. No, that's not-- Ms. Hamm, That's not you?
p. 106Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 106Ms. Hamm.Yeah, this 224 is not her.\I think it's page 2- --
p. 106Ms. Kellen.Just the -- this one is. me.
p. 106Ms. Hamm.222 is Ms..Kellen. 224 is someone else.
p. 106Ms. Kellen.Corrects
p. 106Ms. Brignac.Do you know why this collection of letters and photographs might have been grouped together for the book?
p. 106Ms. Kellen.I don't. I'm not sure why I would've included a photo of myself in her submission.
p. 106Ms. Brignac.Thank you.
p. 106QAnd then just to go back to something you mentioned earlier, you had mentioned that Mr. Indyke helped you get an attorney at so me point. Is that correct?
p. 107AYes.
p. 107QAnd| apologize if this is repetitive, but at what timeframe was that?
p. 107AI believe -- for sure around 2015. I'm trying to think if sooner than that. I don't know if he had anything to do with my very first attorney, Bruce Reinhart, but he helped hire -- I think itrwas 2015. It was Scott Link, Justin Chu, and a few others that I don't remember that -- I think itamay have been two different firms.
p. 107QThat's okay. I'd actually like to talk about Bruce Reinhart. You said-he was your first attorney. When was that?
p. 107A2008 or '9 probably.
p. 107QFor the purpose of the nonprosecution agreement. or
p. 107ANo. Q- --something separate?
p. 107ANo, just to represent me in a deposition for a civil suit.
p. 107QOkay. And did Jeffrey Epsteinthelp? Was he involved in that process at all --
p. 107AYes.
p. 107Q--getting the attorney?
p. 107AHe found himyhe hired him, he paid him. He would have discussions with Bruce about my depositions.
p. 107QAnd what did you understand his -- Bruce Reinhart's relationship to be with Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 107ABruce shared an office with Jeffrey's attorney, Jack Goldberger, so it felt more like he was working for him and not me.
p. 107QAnd did you know if Mr. Reinhart was still working for the U.S. Attorney's Office at that time?
p. 107AI don't think I was aware that he worked for the U.S. Attorney's Office until much later.
p. 108QOkay.
p. 108AYeah.
p. 108QThank you.
p. 108Ms. Brignac.Can you list for us the associates of Mr. Epstein that you interacted with the most frequently in working for Mr. Epstein?
p. 108Ms. Hamm.Like other people that worked for Mr. Epstein or provided services. to
p. 108Mr. Epstein.Yeah, staff or outside people?
p. 108QStaff. The question is, can you list for me the other associates of Mr. Epstein that you worked with most frequently in your role as his assistant?
p. 108AAll the house staff, the pilots, the chefs.
p. 108QIs there anyone we have not yet referenced today that you worked with frequently in your position as his assistant?
p. 108AI me an, all the house staff: Richard Barnett, Lyn and Jojo Fontanilla, Janusz (ph) Banasiak (ph), Louella (ph) Rabuyo (ph))Brice and Karen Gordon, Valdson Cotrin. I me an, those would've been the ones that were-around the longest in the house staff. They always ended -- I me an, most of the house staff'worked for him for probably 20 years.
p. 108QWere any. of them aware of the abuse by Mr. Epstein towards you?
p. 108AThehouse staff would've been aware when I slept in his bed. For sure New York when he would call’ me and have me sleep with him, because they would have to open the do or for me when.}.came over at night. What extent they knew what was happening, I don't know, but they would've known that I had spent the night.
p. 108QCan you name them?
p. 108ALyn and Jojo Fontanilla. I feel like the island staff would've been aware.
p. 108QWho would that be?
p. 109AMiles and Cathy Alexander for the first few years, and then Brice and Karen Gordon during the latter part.
p. 109QThank you.
p. 109Mr. Emmer.We've had another member join. Can she please introduce herself for the record?
p. 109Ms. Stansbury.Good afternoon. I'm Congresswoman Stansbury, New Mexico's First Congressional District. Thank you.
p. 109Mr. Emmer.Ms. Boebert, I believe you had so me questions you wanted to ask.
p. 109Ms. Boebert.Yes. So in so me redacted files, you are listed as number five as a coconspirator. If you had immunity, would you be able to give information aboutthe other people that are listed as coconspirators?
p. 109Ms. Kellen.I don't know that that is a fair representation. I don't know --
p. 109Ms. Boebert.Did the DOJ ever interview-you and tell you that you were a coconspirator?
p. 109Ms. Kellen.No. I wasn't aware that! was being included in his nonprosecution agreement.
p. 109Ms. Boebert.How much time. do we have remaining?
p. 109Ms. Tolan.Five minutes.
p. 109Ms. Boebert.Okay. There is an email that was redacted, and the email is to a Sarah K. There are a couple of Sarah-K.'s in these files that have been redacted. This would be from Francis Derby, and this is you --or, excuse me, Sarah K., saying that Jeffrey Epstein was going to start eating regular food again’and eating less jerky. Are you familiar with this email?
p. 109Ms. Kellen.Vaguely with the subject.
p. 109Ms. Boebert.Okay. And so that said, he has six bags of it downstairs in the freezer for his next trip. I know that you've answered so me reference to these food questions, but is this 100 percent, undoubtedly, regular, normal beef jerky from an animal that people consume?
p. 110Ms. Kellen.100 percent.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.Where --
p. 110Ms. Kellen.The chef made homemade beef jerky for Jeffrey, and he was obsessed with it.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.What chef was this?
p. 110Ms. Kellen.Francis Derby was the chef.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.Okay. And did you ever order specific items that were unusual? We saw that there was a very large purchase of sulfuric acid towards the end of Jeffrey Epstein's stay on Little Saint James Island. Did you ever see such purchases made?
p. 110Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 110Ms. Hamm.Do you have the time period for that, just to the extent it might help?
p. 110Ms. Boebert.I can get that time period. It was. much later. It was probably around 2019 or so that that happened.
p. 110Ms. Hamm.Oh, she wasn't working»so she wouldn't know.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.Correct. And I'm just asking if, in your time, did you see any unusual purchases, like hundreds of gallons of sulfuric-acid --
p. 110Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.-~being made?
p. 110Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.Were you ever instructed to use coded language in correspondence?
p. 110Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 110Ms. Boebert.In every piece of correspondence you had with Jeffrey Epstein and his associates, the words you said were the exact words you meant and there were no coding -- there was no coding used whatsoever?
p. 110Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 111Ms. Boebert.Okay. That's all I have.
p. 111Ms. Brignac.Is there anything that I have not asked you today that you believe is relevant to this inquiry?
p. 111Ms. Kellen.I think, in general, what I would like to kind of bring awareness to, and I said, it iin the beginning, of just being educated on the grooming process. I think it's really important, because I think there's been so much sensationalism and so many conspiracy theories around Jeffrey, that it has become -- I think the dangers are that people think it was such an open thing,.and there was so many things happening out in the open and how did nobody know what was ‘going on. Because I think Jeffrey was a true master manipulator, and he knew how to compartmentalize and what he allowed certain people to see and know. And I think it's -- because it wasn't so obvious, that is the really important part for people to understand. And it's more important if you want to havé -- bring awareness to this in other situations so people -- it's like the covert nature. of. it, like the grooming and the, you know, the targeting of vulnerable victims, gaining their trust, kind of essentially trapping them. It is more of the psychological abuse more than anything that allows for the sexual abuse to happen. So I think kind of educating-people on that is really important, because a lot of people don't understand how it works from the outside. They kind of say like, why didn't you leave, or how didn't you know this, or how didn't you know that. It's kind of like the gaslighting and the control.
p. 111Ms. Brignac.Thank you. Ms. Hamm, Could I just clarify one thing if we have time? Just Mr. Burlison asked you about meetings with Ehud Barak, and I know that you mentioned New York, but you met with Barak in other countries as well, right?
p. 111Ms. Kellen.In Israel.
p. 111Ms. Hamm.Yeah. I just want it to be clear that the meetings weren't just in New York.
p. 111Ms. Kellen.We were in Israel with Ehud Barak one time.
p. 112Mr. Burlison.And there was never times where he was briefing or being briefed? Did you see that --
p. 112Ms. Kellen.I wouldn't have been present in like their private meetings.
p. 112Mr. Burlison.It was all just personal?
p. 112Ms. Kellen.I don't know what the subject matters were, yeah, or what -- they seemed to meet each other quite often, but I don't know what the subject matter was in their discussions.
p. 112Ms. Brignac.Ms. Kellen, there were instances today in which you refused to answer. We understand that you are here voluntarily, and we appreciate your testimony. For the record, would you invoke your Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination in response to any or all of the questions if you were compelled to answer in another setting?
p. 112Ms. Hamm.I think we'd have to go through those question by question. And so we've identified what she's able to talk to about today, but to go through a question by question in a voluntary setting in a nondeposition about how. she would respond, we're not prepared to do that. You know, as I've mentioned, she --and I think the record reflects this. She's answered a lot of questions today, and she really, trulyis trying to be helpful to the Committee's investigation, but we have to consider the impact. on-her, consider the impact on other victims, and consider, you know, her legal rights and her protection. And so we're trying to give as much information as we can under those parameters.
p. 112Ms. Brignac.Thank you. Chairman Comer. Ms. Kellen, we greatly appreciate your willingness to come in today. I can't imagine how difficult this has been for you, but this has been very helpful to us. And we sincerely want to provide justice for the survivors, and I think your testimony today has been very helpful for us. So I just, on behalf of the Oversight Committee, I want to thank you for being here today.
p. 112Ms. Kellen.Thank you.
p. 112Ms. Brignac.We'll go off the record. [Recess.] Mr. a. Back on the record. BY MR. ne:
p. 113QMs. Kellen, good afternoon.
p. 113AHi.
p. 113QI'm going to start by following up on the conversation during the previous. round about the removal of certain items from Jeffrey Epstein's properties. I think you spoke. about that at so me length. I don't want to make you repeat yourself, but I do want to make sure. we're clear on the chronology and the details. So I understand from that discussion, first of all, that yousoverheard a phone call involving another assistant, n° Is that correct?
p. 113ACorrect.
p. 113QThe court reporter needs a verbal yes.
p. 113AOh, sorry. Yes. Sorry, sorry.
p. 113QThank you. And could you\just recount that conversation again just so we're clear on the participants and the substance. of it?
p. 113AJeffrey and I were on the island, and I heard him on the phone with i to tell her to go to the house.
p. 113QWhen-did this conversation take place?
p. 113ASometime in 2005, I believe.
p. 113QAnd Mr. Epstein told to go to the house. Sorry I interrupted you.
p. 113AYes. So she lived in Miami. She was based in Miami with her husband, so she would've been near Palm Beach. So he told her to go to the house and get the computers and, it was my understanding, to give them to his attorney.
p. 113QDid he say which attorney?
p. 114AI believe it was Roy Black, but I don't remember if I, like, knew that at the time or if I found that out later.
p. 114QAnd when he said get the computers, did he mention any other type of equipment or hardware or was it just computers generically?
p. 114AI just remember computers generically.
p. 114QDo you know whether Jeffrey Epstein had retained a private investigator at that point in time?
p. 114AI knew he had one. I don't know exactly when he came in to thescene. He had a strange voice and like a lisp.
p. 114QDo you -- sorry.
p. 114ABut I think it was William Riley was his name.
p. 114QWas there any mention of Mr. Riley during the phone conversation with a:
p. 114AI don't remember specifically.
p. 114QAnd do you have any knowledge. with respect to where the computers ultimately ended up?
p. 114AI don't.
p. 114QI understand there was another conversation that took place in New York, and this concerned the removal of the directory that we spoke about this morning. Is that correct?
p. 114AYes:
p. 114QAnd when did that conversation take place?
p. 114AThat was -- I believe it was Valentine's Day of 2006, just because I remember he called me during Valentine's Day dinner with my boyfriend at the time and had me come to the house.
p. 114QAnd when you got to the house, who was there?
p. 114ADarren Indyke and other attorneys. I believe it was Gerald Lefcourt and potentially other attorneys. I just don't remember exactly.
p. 115QWas Mr. Riley there?
p. 115ANo. I think he was Florida based.
p. 115QAnd when you arrived -- this was at Mr. Epstein's house in New York. Is that correct?
p. 115ACorrect.
p. 115QOkay. And when you arrived at this meeting, do you recall what was said?
p. 115AHe just told me what to go around the house to gather in to the dining room downstairs.
p. 115Q"He" being --
p. 115AJeffrey. Q- --Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 115AJeffrey.
p. 115QAnd what did he tell you?
p. 115AHe told me to grab printed photographs and directories, is what I remember. And it seemed that the attorneys were just gathering everything that they were going to take.
p. 115QsDid any of the attorneys say anything?
p. 115AI don't have a specific recollection.
p. 115QAnd the directories'that Mr. Epstein directed you to gather, are those the same directories that we spoke about this morning?
p. 115AYes.
p. 115QAnd where were those stored?
p. 115AThey were placed by all the phones in all the houses. Q> So these were hard copies?
p. 115AYes.
p. 115QAnd how many of them were there?
p. 115AMany. They were in all the houses by all the phones.
p. 115QAnd so you gathered them up?
p. 116AYes.
p. 116QDid anyone else do that with you?
p. 116AI don't remember.
p. 116QAnd after you gathered them, what did you do with them?
p. 116APut them in the dining room, on the dining room table.
p. 116QOkay. And then what happened?
p. 116AI don't know.
p. 116QDid anyone say anything about where they would ultimately be taken?
p. 116ANo. I was just of the general understanding that his lawyers would be taking them. I don't know where they took them or what they did with it.
p. 116QDo you have any knowledge with respect to where the directories ultimately ended up?
p. 116ANo.
p. 116QAnd you mentioned Mr. Indyke was-part of this group. Did he have a particular role in this endeavor?
p. 116AI'm not sure. I think he was just Jeffrey's in-house counsel, so he kind of had his hands in all of the legal things.
p. 116QIf I could just turn back for a moment to the investigation in Florida that you were asked about in the previous round. Was there any point in time at which Jeffrey Epstein told you not to cooperate with law enforcement?
p. 116A“No.
p. 116Q> Did he ever tell you what to say to law enforcement?
p. 116ANo. I was never approached by law enforcement.
p. 116QDid anyone else instruct you or tell you how to interact with law enforcement in the event that they communicated with you?
p. 116ANot that I recall.
p. 117QThere was mention during the previous round of the Florida Science Foundation, and I take it you're familiar with that entity.
p. 117AYes.
p. 117QDo you have an understanding as to when the Florida Science Foundation was set up?
p. 117AI don't know if it existed before his work release.
p. 117QDo you have any understanding as to why it was set up?
p. 117AI assumed it was so he could get work release, have somewhere to-go:
p. 117QTo your knowledge, did the Florida Science Foundation have any. genuine operations?
p. 117AI have no idea.
p. 117QDid you ever hear anyone suggest that the Florida Science Foundation was set up simply in order to give Jeffrey Epstein a place to do his work release?
p. 117AThat felt like what was happening.
p. 117QDid anyone ever say that?
p. 117AI don't know if those exact words, but that's generally what I understood.
p. 117QDovyou recall any conversations about that?
p. 117ANot particularly. I.just'rremember, like, being tasked with buying furniture and setting up the office.
p. 117Ms. Hamm.Would you mind on the Palm Beach, please, I just -- if you don't mind, if we could clarify something? Youtinteracted with the Palm Beach police before the search warrant, right? You mentioned this before, but relating to the theft in the house.
p. 117Ms. Kellen.Right. Like before he was being investigated --
p. 117Ms. Hamm.Yes.
p. 117Ms. Kellen.-- and they came to put cameras in to catch the thief.
p. 117Ms. Hamm.But that was the only --
p. 118Ms. Kellen.That was the only time.
p. 118Ms. Hamm.-- time you interacted. Okay. BY MR. ie:
p. 118QJust a few follow-up questions with respect to the birthday book that was discussed. in the previous round. If I understood correctly, and please tell me if I got this wrong, you were involved in scanning images from the birthday book. Is that right?
p. 118AYes.
p. 118QOkay. And that was after the book was presented to Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 118ABefore. Ghislaine reached out to whoever she wanted to participate with the book, and then they would give a submission, and then we would scan thatsubmission and print it on uniform so they were all in the same size paper and type of paper.
p. 118QI see. So you --
p. 118AAnd then we had all of those papers. bound in to leather-bound books.
p. 118Qlunderstand. Thank you. Do you recall the specific entry. in the birthday book that was provided by Donald Trump?
p. 118AI don't.
p. 118QDid Donald Trump submit that entry directly to Ghislaine Maxwell?
p. 118AMost likely.
p. 118QOkay.-Do you recall any conversations about Donald Trump's contribution to the birthday book?
p. 118AI don't really remember any specific contributions to the book. I didn't even remember my own. By ms. a:
p. 118QI just have a few questions for you, Ms. Kellen. In the previous round, you spoke a bit about SLK Designs employing a woman named a. Was this the only other person besides you that worked for SLK Designs?
p. 119AYes.
p. 119QAnd who did SLK -- what were the clients of SLK Designs? Was it just Epstein?
p. 119AJust Jeffrey.
p. 119QOkay. And are you familiar with the name Arda Beskardes?
p. 119AYes.
p. 119QWho is he?
p. 119AHe's an immigration attorney that Darren Indyke introduced me. to to help with the application for fil's visa.
p. 119QDid he work for Epstein, are you aware?
p. 119AI think he had his own firm, but I know that --_I think he did a lot of work for Jeffrey. I remember him making -- when he introduced, he said’hé would give a good price because he had a lot of history with Darren, so it seems that they: had worked a lot together in the past.
p. 119QDo you know any of the work that they did together in the past?
p. 119AI think he had helped withone of Jeffrey's girlfriends that I knew of. Other than that, I'm not entirely sure.
p. 119QWhen you sayhelped --
p. 119AHelped with her visa.
p. 119QAnd do you know which girlfriend this was?
p. 119Ai.
p. 119QWas this the only time that you interacted with Arda?
p. 119AYes.
p. 119QThank you.
p. 119ADuring that process.
p. 119QOkay. I have a few questions for you going back to Frederic Fekkai. I would just like to get a better sense of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. What was your understanding of that relationship?
p. 120AJeffrey took me and himself and Ghislaine and we all went to Fekkai's salon to get our hair done. And I believe that Jeffrey helped broker a deal with Fekkai and L Brands, Les Wexner's company. I believe they bought Fekkai's brand.
p. 120QDo you know when that deal would've been?
p. 120AIt was during my employment, because I remember his salon changed locations. It was like near the Chanel building at first, and then it moved to Henri Bendel, which Les Wexner owned.
p. 120QOkay. So early on in your employment or --
p. 120AMaybe with in the first few years.
p. 120QSo was your understanding of their relationship, Epstein and Fekkai, a social relationship or a business relationship?
p. 120ABoth, would be my understanding».do remember a flight that Fekkai took on his plane to Paris one time.
p. 120QFor social activities?
p. 120AI think he was just. catching a ride.
p. 120QDo you know how the two of them met?
p. 120AI don't.
p. 120QIt was-before you met Fekkai and Epstein?
p. 120ACorrect.
p. 120QAnd you mentioned that you and Ghislaine and Epstein would go and get your hair cut there. Are you aware of other women that either worked for Epstein or were just in his orbit that would also go and get their hair cut with Fekkai?
p. 120AYes.
p. 120QWere you aware of Epstein introducing women to Fekkai?
p. 121AFekkai introduced me to Epstein the first time I met him.
p. 121QOkay. But not Epstein --
p. 121AI don't know the other way.
p. 121QOkay. And you mentioned Wexner, so I'd like to just briefly touch on -- you mentioned meeting him a couple times. Were you ever aware of Epstein stealing money from Wexner?
p. 121ANo. I only found out about that in the press when Wexner said it happened:
p. 121QOkay. Thank you. By Ms. ae:
p. 121QYou mentioned Lesley Groff previously. What was your relationship with her?
p. 121AWe were coworkers. She was Jeffrey's executive assistant that worked in the office in New York.
p. 121QWould you say you were close?
p. 121AWe were friendly, but nothing outside of work.
p. 121QWhen you would go to New York, where would you -- like, what space would you typically work out of?
p. 121ASo the first years fromabout 2001 to, I want to say 2010, I worked out of Ghislaine's house in New York, out of her townhouse on 65th Street. She had an office in the bottom floor. And then when Jeffrey was. released from house arrest in Palm Beach and came back to New York, I started working out of his townhouse at 71st Street.
p. 121QWhen Ms. Groff started working for Mr. Epstein, did she also work out of his townhouse?
p. 121ASo she was at the Madison office in the beginning, and then when Jeffrey got rid of that office, he took over two apartments at 301 East 66th Street, and she worked in that office -- one of those offices. And then when Jeffrey got back to New York after house arrest, Lesley -- when Jeffrey was in New York she would work out of that house. Otherwise, I think she stayed at home and worked out of the house if he wasn't in town.
p. 122QSo after his house arrest, the two of you would work in the same space?
p. 122AShe was on the main floor, and I worked on the fifth floor of the townhouse.
p. 122QGot it. What was your understanding of her responsibilities?
p. 122AShe would keep track of his schedule. He would make all of his phone calls through her typically. He would just call and say, connect me to this person, connect me to that person. She helped, I believe, with the scheduling of the apartments at 301, like where the guests were, like the schedule of that; giving messages, like relaying messages from Jeffrey to various people, to the staff, and that sort of thing.
p. 122QAnd did she also help with scheduling of the -- sorry; is this a different -- the 66th Street, is that a different building than the one you just mentioned?
p. 122AThe 301 East 66th Street.
p. 122QIt's that --
p. 122AYeah.
p. 122QOkay. Great. Thank you: Would she also book travel?
p. 122AYes.
p. 122QAnd she-would do that for his personal plane and also commercial travel?
p. 122AYes:
p. 122QAnd she would also schedule meetings. Is that correct?
p. 122ACorrect.
p. 122QDo you know whether she paid girls and women?
p. 122AI don't know.
p. 122QYou said previously that there were so me times when you were up in New York and -- I may be misphrasing this -- something like sometimes the New York office would be closed and so you would have to do certain things that the New York office would do. Can you say a little more about that?
p. 123AGenerally scheduling appointments on the weekends if the office was closed, because I was always with Jeffrey pretty much.
p. 123QSo your work with her overlapped sometimes if she was not in the office?
p. 123ASometimes. Or if I -- Jeffrey would tell me something, you know, to relay to her, to schedule somebody, we would -- everybody kind of -- all the assistants were inccontact with each other, so we kind of understood, like, what his plans were for travel and so'we could be prepared.
p. 123QGotit. You previously said you met with Leon Black in New-York and then had dinner with him in Paris. Is that correct?
p. 123ACorrect.
p. 123QFor the meeting in New York, do you remember when that was?
p. 123AI remember seeing him at a few different occasions come in to meet with Jeffrey. I don't have specific timeframes that I would-be able to pinpoint.
p. 123QCould you place it, like, maybe before work release, after work release?
p. 123ADefinitely after.
p. 123QOkay.
p. 123APotentially before, but I wouldn't have been in Jeffrey's New York home very much at all before the work release.
p. 123Q% Right. So you said there were a few different meetings. Any sense of how many? Three? Five?
p. 123AProbably two or three that I saw him come in. They would go in to the dining room and have the meeting. I remember going to the Museum of Modern Art with him as well.
p. 123QFor the meetings when they were in the dining room, did you get to be in there at all, hear what they were talking about?
p. 124ANo.
p. 124QOkay. And when you went to the Museum of Modern Art, was that you, Mr. Black, and Mr. Epstein?
p. 124AYes.
p. 124QAnyone else?
p. 124AI don't know. I don't remember. [2:51 p. m.] By vs. a:
p. 125QDo you remember what you talked about at all?
p. 125AI think I knew that he was, like, a donor or the -- maybe, like, a wing named after him‘or something. He was involved -- he was a big art collector, so he had so me involvement with the museum.
p. 125QWhat was your sense of Mr. Black, personally?
p. 125AI knew that he had a mistress. And I remember -- I think his mistress was with him at the dinner in Paris. And then I remember seeing him walking on Madison Avenue with his mistress and being surprised that he was being so brazen and bold, out imthe open with a mistress in the city that his wife lived in.
p. 125QAnd that is the same general timeframe -+.at least, like, post-work-release? Maybe?
p. 125AMaybe.
p. 125QOkay. For the dinner in Paris -- so that'was Mr. Black, Mr. Epstein, you, Mr. Black's mistress. Anyone else?
p. 125AI don't remember specifically.
p. 125QAnd where. in Paris was it?
p. 125AAtarestaurant.
p. 125QOkay. Do you remember what was talked about?
p. 125ANo.
p. 125QOkay. Did you have any other interactions with Mr. Black?
p. 125AI ran in to him, after I stopped employment with Jeffrey, at the Milken conference. I think it was in -- I want to say it was in Singapore. And I said hello, and it was just a very short interaction.
p. 126QDo you know approximately what year this would've been?
p. 126AIt would've been probably 2014? '14 or '15?
p. 126QWas there anyone with him?
p. 126AIt was kind of just, like, in a general public are a. I don't -- yeah, I don't remember. him being with anybody.
p. 126QGotit. Do you know if Mr. Black ever went to Little Saint James?
p. 126AI don't know. Not that I witnessed or recall him being there.
p. 126QAnd just to step back a bit, what was your understanding of the nature of the relationship between Mr. Epstein and Mr. Black?
p. 126AI assumed Jeffrey was managing his money.
p. 126QAnything else?
p. 126AThey seemed friendly, but --
p. 126QPreviously, you mentioned a photograph that you took of a number of different men, I believe, in New York City -- Larry Summers, Jes Staley, and others --
p. 126AUh-huh. Q- -- correct?
p. 126ACorrect.
p. 126QDo you remember approximately when that was?
p. 126A2011, maybe? 2010, 2011, probably.
p. 126QAnd was it in Mr. Epstein's --
p. 126AIt was in his New York home.
p. 126QOkay.
p. 126AIt was in the foyer, outside of the dining room.
p. 126Ms. Hamm.This was after he was back from work release, if you don't mind me asking?
p. 127Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 127Ms. Hamm.Okay. By Ms. a:
p. 127QDo you remember why all those men were in his home? Was it a dinner? Meeting?
p. 127AI think it was a dinner.
p. 127QAnd how did you come to take the photograph of them?
p. 127AWhen he had dinners like that, he would have me just stay at the house, a lot of times, to be available to either help serve or if there was anything that needed -- he. needed while he was in the meeting. So I remember they had the meeting in the dining room, and then they came out, and Jeffrey asked me to take a picture of all of them together.
p. 127QDo you have any sense of what the meeting was about?
p. 127AI don't.
p. 127QDo you remember anyone else@who was there but who was not in the photo?
p. 127ANo.
p. 127QOkay. Did you have any other interactions with Mr. Staley?
p. 127AI know that him and his family flew on the plane one time, his wife and two daughters.
p. 127QWere you on the plane with them?
p. 127AYes.
p. 127QWhat was your sense of him, personally?
p. 127AThat he was Jeffrey's private banker.
p. 127QAny other interactions?
p. 127AI think, just from that photograph, like, when he would come to the house for meetings, it was maybe just seeing him in passing kind of thing. But, I me an, nothing substantive that I can remember. I just know - like, I know the name, I know who he was.
p. 128QSure. Did you have a sense of Mr. Staley's personal relationship with Mr. Epstein?
p. 128AThey were definitely friendly, for sure. I feel like, when Jes, like, moved banks, then Jeffrey moved banks with him or something.
p. 128QOkay.
p. 128AAnd it was J.P. Morgan to Barclays, I believe.
p. 128QSorry?
p. 128AI think it was from J.P. Morgan to Barclays.
p. 128QGotit. Thank you. BY MR. i:
p. 128QTwo quick questions, going back to the Florida investigation and plea. And the first one concerns Richard Kahn. Do you have any knowledge of when Mr. Kahn became aware of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest?
p. 128ANo.
p. 128QDid you ever talk about that with Mr. Kahn?
p. 128ANo.
p. 128QAnd the second question is concerning Bruce Reinhart, whose name came up ina previous round. Do you, have any idea how he came to be associated with Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 128AI don't. I wasn't -- I'm not sure if maybe Jack Goldberger may have made the introduction, because they shared an office in Florida.
p. 128QAnd then fast-forwarding again in time, 2018, and specifically December of 2018, it's my understanding that Jeffrey Epstein made a payment to you in the amount of $250,000. Am I right about that?
p. 128AYes.
p. 128QWhat's your understanding as to why Jeffrey Epstein paid you that amount of money?
p. 129AI was telling him about the financial situation between me and my ex-husband, that we had gutted our apartment a few months before he was in the hospital with emergency open-heart surgery and had to stop his career and wasn't making any -- didn't have any income. So he spent basically his entire savings trying to rebuild the apartment, and it wasn't enough. And then we were trying to refinance, and we couldn't refinance it unless it was livable, but we couldn't makeittivable without refinancing it. So it was just this bad, stressful situation. And I remember telling Jeffrey about it and expressing it, and he just goton the phone and called Rich Kahn and said, "Wire Sarah this money." So I assumed it was to’kind of help alleviate so me of that stress.
p. 129QDuring the course of that conversation, did he everrmention the investigation that was underway in the Southern District of New York?
p. 129ANo.
p. 129QDid he ever mention the series of articles that had begun to appear in the Miami Herald in November of 2018?
p. 129AI believe that I mentioned it to him and he kind of just dismissed it. He was like, it's the same thing, like, the exact same thing just being regurgitated. Like, kind of just was like, "Whatever, it's old news," and just kind of dismissed it.
p. 129QAnd youmentioned it during this same conversation?
p. 129AYes:
p. 129Q™ Okay. Did Jeffrey Epstein tell you not to mention the $250,000 payment to anyone?
p. 129AHe did.
p. 129QDid he tell you why he didn't want you to mention it?
p. 129AHe did not.
p. 129QDid you have an understanding?
p. 129AI had no idea. I didn't know if he maybe didn't want to make other people jealous or something.
p. 130QDid you ever suspect that the timing of the payment was an indication that it was intended to keep you from working with Southern District of New York or other law enforcement?
p. 130AThat was not my understanding. Like I said, he sort of just dismissed the Miami Herald articles, and I wasn't aware that there was an investigation happening at that time.
p. 130QWhen was the last time you were in contact with Jeffrey Epstein?
p. 130AHe would occasionally email me, like, on my birthday, "happy birthday"-type thing. I don't remember the last time that was.
p. 130QDid he ever contact you after his arrest in 2019?
p. 130ANo.
p. 130Q|have just one followup question on Mr. Indyke and Mr. Kahn. Did either one of them ever open up a bank account for you?
p. 130ASo there was a bank account for SLK.Designs. I don't remember exactly -- I may have opened it myself, but then, ike managed it, kind of, the payroll for il and that sort of thing. I didn't really -- I didn't deal witht.
p. 130QI managed the SLK account?
p. 130AYes.
p. 130QAnd did she do that on behalf of Mr. Kahn?
p. 130AThey worked together. I don't know how they divided their responsibilities.
p. 130Q™ And did either Mr. Kahn o i have control over the account? Meaning, could they make deposits and withdrawals?
p. 130AYes.
p. 130QAnd did they have that sort of control over any other accounts that you were part of or owned?
p. 130ANo.
p. 131Ms. Hamm.Can I just ask, to clarify, what about -- did you have, like, work credit cards? Were they --
p. 131Ms. Kellen.I have --
p. 131Ms. Hamm.-- able to make payments on them?
p. 131Ms. Kellen.Yes. I had the type of work credit cards that they -- that they paid. BY MR. oe:
p. 131QDid they ever make any payments, whether from a bank account or. acredit card account, that you were unaware of and found out about later?
p. 131AI don't think so.
p. 131QOr without your consent?
p. 131AIf they had -- I'm sorry?
p. 131QDid they ever, like, make a payment from-any of the accounts we've been talking about, be it a bank account or a credit card account, without your knowledge or consent?
p. 131AIt could've been possible. I don't -- I'm not aware. But they would've been able to, you know, have checks or whatever from. the SLK Designs account. By vs. a:
p. 131QMs. Kellen, I just-have a couple questions. Last August, Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred to a minimum-security prison. How do you feel about that decision?
p. 131AIfind it suspicious. Not quite sure why that would've happened.
p. 131QYou find it suspicious because the nature of her crimes aren't consistent with being in a minimum-security prison?
p. 131AI don't really know what kind of prison she's meant to be in for those crimes, but it seems kind of like she's been treated favorably.
p. 131QOkay. So you disagree with the decision to move her to a minimum-security prison?
p. 132AYes.
p. 132QAnd there's been reports that she has been given special treatment in this new prison. How do you feel about that?
p. 132AIt seems like we're kind of repeating Jeffrey's experience in prison, being treated favorably and getting special treatment.
p. 132QUh-huh. Understood. Thank you. By Ms. a:
p. 132QOne quick followup. With respect to Leon Black, you said his mistress was with him at the dinner in Paris and then also that you saw her with him when you. ran in to him on the street -- or you saw him walking.
p. 132AI saw him walking, yeah.
p. 132QDo you remember the mistress's name?
p. 132AI don't.
p. 132QWas it the same person in both instances?
p. 132AYes.
p. 132QOkay. Thank you.
p. 132Ms. Stansbury.Hello.
p. 132Ms. Kellen.Hi.
p. 132Ms. Stansbury.Thank you so much for being here today. So l represent New Mexico's First Congressional District. Zorro Ranch is not in my district but adjacentto my district. And I'm sure you're aware, you've probably been seeing in the news, that our State legislature has opened a truth commission. It's a legislative body. And part of what our truth commission is trying to do is just to establish the facts around the ranch, what happened there, whether or not abuse happened there. I know that you were asked so me questions earlier. I wasn't able to be here this morning. So I just want to follow up on so me pieces of the story that are of particular interest to our commission and also your experience there, because I understand from the earlier questions that you had traveled there.
p. 133Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.So I understand from your bio that you were involved on a day-to-day basis in management of the affairs and properties of Mr. Epstein. Did you also play that role at Zorro Ranch as well?
p. 133Ms. Kellen.I wasn't really involved in, like, the -- the -- he had staff; like, permanent staff, that lived at the ranch that managed it and took care of it.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.So what was your specific role at the ranch then?
p. 133Ms. Kellen.It was more just still in the capacity of Jeffrey and Ghislaine's personal assistant.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.Okay. So was that only when they were physically there that you played that role?
p. 133Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.Okay. So who: managed the day-to-day affairs when you were not there?
p. 133Ms. Kellen.There were. several people. Karen and Brice Gordon.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.Gordon?
p. 133Ms. Kellen.Gordon.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.Okay.
p. 133Ms. Kellen.They were kind of the main ones. There were definitely ones before their employment. I just don't remember. There was, like, a -- kind of a driver/manager. His name was Manolito. I don't remember his last name.
p. 133Ms. Stansbury.Uh-huh.
p. 133Ms. Kellen.There was -- yes, there was a woman that -- that -- she -- there was a woman manager in the very beginning. And I don't remember her name exactly. And then eventually Brice and Karen took over for her.
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.Are there any -- sorry. Go ahead.
p. 134Ms. Kellen.Sorry, I'm just trying to think of the other staff.
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.Yeah.
p. 134Ms. Kellen.I know there were a few other -- other staff members that worked on the-ranch, and I just don't remember their names.
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.Okay. Are there any other persons associated with the ranch that either worked for Mr. Epstein or that you believe have knowledge about the ranch, its operations, what-happened there, that you think the truth commission should speak with?
p. 134Ms. Kellen.I would think Brice and Karen would be the most knowledgeable.
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.Okay. And I did mention earlier, Our truth commission would love to speak with you, if you're willing to, at so me point. And: so I just want to extend that invite to you. So I know you were asked earlier about your travel to the ranch. Do you know about how many times you went there?
p. 134Ms. Kellen.I typically went-once a year, in August --
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.Uh-huh.
p. 134Ms. Kellen.---with Jeffrey. And I have been a few other -- maybe two other times by myself and a few friends that he offered it as, like, a birthday present for me to go --
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.Gotcha.
p. 134Ms. Kellen.-- sometimes.
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.And when you guys would go in August, about how long would you stay?
p. 134Ms. Kellen.I want to say about a week.
p. 134Ms. Stansbury.About a week?
p. 134Ms. Kellen.Maybe 2 weeks. He didn't stay in one place for very long.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.And how did Mr. Epstein use the ranch?
p. 135Ms. Kellen.He would go on walks, exercise.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Was it, like, a retreat for him? Was it a place of business? Did he bring people there?
p. 135Ms. Kellen.He would have guests. He also had meetings. There was a -- so me sort. of science -- I think it may have been in Santa Fe. There was a scientist, Murray Gell-Mann, that was based out of there that would come often and see him.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Maurice Gell-Mann?
p. 135Ms. Kellen.Murray Gell-Mann.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Murray.
p. 135Ms. Kellen.I think it was, like, G-e-I-I-M-a-n-n, perhaps.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Okay.
p. 135Ms. Kellen.I forget the name of what he-worked with, but it was so me sort of science thing that was in the are a.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Okay.
p. 135Ms. Kellen.He was friendly with the Governor, Governor Richardson.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Yeah..Did you ever see Mr. Richardson there?
p. 135Ms. Kellen.I know I met him, but I don't know if it was specifically on the ranch.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Are there any other notable figures you saw at the ranch?
p. 135Ms. Kellen.Tom Ford. He had the ranch adjacent to Jeffrey's, and he invited him to lunch one time. ‘It was Tom Ford and his partner. I don't remember his name.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Any other notable figures, public figures?
p. 135Ms. Kellen.Not that I specifically remember right now.
p. 135Ms. Stansbury.Okay. And I know this is a sensitive issue, and if you don't feel comfortable discussing it, I understand. But I know you've self-identified yourself as a survivor as well. If you feel comfortable saying so, were you ever sexually abused at the ranch?
p. 136Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 136Ms. Stansbury.Are you aware of others who were abused at the ranch?
p. 136Ms. Hamm.I think we --
p. 136Ms. Stansbury.If you feel comfortable sharing.
p. 136Ms. Hamm.Yeah, I think we are trying to avoid other victims at this time.
p. 136Ms. Stansbury.Even, if it's okay, Counsel, to ask and to ask of you --.and I know these are difficult and retraumatizing questions. Even if you're not comfortable’sharing about names of other people, do you feel comfortable saying that you are aware there-are others that were abused at the ranch?
p. 136Ms. Kellen.I have no doubt there was, but I -~!'n not specifically aware of a certain --
p. 136Ms. Stansbury.Do you feel comfortable. sharing if you know that there were people who were abused that were both locals and people who were transported there from elsewhere? Part of what we're trying to understand -- because there are a few locals who have said they were brought there for various. reasons, but also there's reports in the FBI files of complaints of people who say they were transported there via plane. And so are you aware of both of those instances, even if you don't want to say specific people?
p. 136Ms. Hamm.Can we go off the record for a second?
p. 136Ms. Stansbury.Yes. Mr. a. Off the record. [Discussion off the record.] Mr. a. Back on the record.
p. 136Ms. Hamm.Just trying to make sure we're sensitive here.
p. 137Ms. Kellen.I know that there were other women around the ranch. I just don't know specifically what happened to them or whatever, like, if they were abused or not.
p. 137Ms. Stansbury.But you are aware that there were other women who were both brought to the ranch who were local as well as non-local who were on the ranch property?
p. 137Ms. Kellen.I'm not aware of anyone locally.
p. 137Ms. Stansbury.Okay. Got it. And, to that end, are there people, aside from the individuals that you already mentioned, that you feel would help us fill out the story of the truth commission and what happened in New Mexico that we should be asking questions of?
p. 137Ms. Kellen.Sorry. Repeat that.
p. 137Ms. Stansbury.Sorry. I know that was a complicated question. For our truth commission in New Mexico, who's really trying to understand what happened in New Mexico, are there other individuals that haveimportant pieces of the story that we should be interviewing that would understand the ranch, what happened there?
p. 137Ms. Kellen.Probably the staff. that lived there and managed it, that were there all the time.
p. 137Ms. Stansbury.And that'would be the individuals you already mentioned?
p. 137Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh:
p. 137Ms. Stansbury.Are there any other assistants or people that played a similar role as you that you think we should ask questions of?
p. 137Ms. Kellen.I'm just trying to remember specifically who was on the ranch.
p. 137Ms. Hamm.Would you mind -- if you don't mind? I think at one point -- I just want to make sure it's clear -- you were asked, when you weren't there, who was managing the day-to-day affairs. When you were there, were you managing the day-to-day affairs, or was it one of the other staffers that you mentioned?
p. 137Ms. Kellen.The staff that was there.
p. 138Ms. Hamm.They managed the day-to-day affairs, whether you were there or not there?
p. 138Ms. Kellen.Yes. Ms. Hamm, That's what I'm trying to get at. Okay. And then -- oh, I think you mentioned -- I'm so sorry. When you were talking about yourrrole at the ranch, did you work on, like, sort of, special decorating projects or --
p. 138Ms. Kellen.Sometimes.
p. 138Ms. Hamm.Yeah?
p. 138Ms. Kellen.Not a lot at the ranch. We were there so seldomly. Ms. Hamm, Okay.
p. 138Ms. Kellen.It was, like, literally a week, maybe 2 -- that's generous -- a year.
p. 138Ms. Hamm.Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry, Congresswoman.
p. 138Ms. Stansbury.And just to clarify, I'm not. trying to establish any specific activities. More trying -- we're trying to currently put together more of, like, a witness list, who was there, who saw things, who heard things.
p. 138Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 138Ms. Stansbury.So kjust want to clarify that. So are there other assistants and people who traveled with Epstein that you saw at the ranch that would knowabout the ranch?
p. 138Ms. Kellen.There were definitely other assistants. I don't know how much they would necessarily know about the ranch. Like, they would have kind of just traveled in and out like I did.
p. 138Ms. Stansbury.And who was that? Who else was there?
p. 138Ms. Kellen.a.
p. 138Ms. Hamm.And we'll make a redaction request if there are names that -- I'm trying to remember specific names. It was so long ago.
p. 139Ms. Hamm.If you don't mind if I ask, would the assistants have traveled to the ranch on his plane? Would that be the bulk of the names? Or, you know, were assistants traveling by commercial plane?
p. 139Ms. Kellen.Both, but mostly on his plane.
p. 139Ms. Hamm.Okay.
p. 139Ms. Stansbury.Well, we'll definitely look at flight logs as well, so that's: helpful to know. And I know, because we have somewhat limited time that we're able to ask questions, I do want to give you another opportunity. I did hear you say with the last’hour -- and then I'll turn it back to our attorneys -- that you wanted to make sure the people understood the level of manipulation that affected you as an assistant and how that contributed to, your abuse. Can you just share a little bit more about what that looked like, if you feel comfortable and it doesn't cause extra trauma?
p. 139Ms. Kellen.Sure. He was very good at targeting vulnerable people. He would get to know you and your situation and then offer to help. Like, with me, he offered to pay off my credit card debt the first time I met him. He asked me what I wanted to do with my life, and I said I wanted to go to FIT and study yoga and pilates, and he's like, "Well, you can do all those things if you work for me." And he would dangle carrot -- I me an, he would make false promises all along the way. Like, he said he would put the apartment that I lived in in New York in my name if I made it working for 5 yearsforhim, which he never did. And he kept continuing that promise through the years; never did. So he would act kind of like your savior, your caretaker. And that is how I viewed it in the beginning, like, how I referenced, like, "Oh, he's being so generous," and not understanding, myself, that it was a form of control.
p. 139Ms. Stansbury.Uh-huh.
p. 140Ms. Kellen.When I only got paid $25,000 a year, like, I couldn't afford to live where I wanted to live; I had to live where he told me to live. When he took me clothes shopping, I was like, "Oh, he's so generous," but it wasn't clothes that I chose. And I trusted that his taste was superior to mine, that he knew better. And then ifd wore something that he didn't approve of, he would look at me dismissively and be like, "Where did you get that? It's disgusting. Throw it away." So he was very good at just decimating your ability to make your own decisions and have your own autonomy. And it made you more and more dependent on him. He would tell people that -- he paid for two of my friends' -- they-were also assistants -- college education, but it was contingent up on them taking the classes that he told them to take. And when they, like, wavered from that, he stopped paying for their -- for their schooling. So he just -- it was -- you had to abide by every'rule of his to -- to -- yeah.
p. 140Ms. Stansbury.This is helpful. Thank you. And I'll turn it back. I appreciate you sharing.
p. 140Mr. Krishnamoorthi.How much time do we have on the clock? Ms. i. Ten minutes:
p. 140Mr. Krishnamoorthi.We have 10 minutes left?
p. 140Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay, great. Okay. Hi. I'm Raja Krishnamoorthi from Illinois's Eighth District. And thank you for coming in. So me very specific questions -- and I was here for the first part of your questioning this morning, but I missed so me of the middle part, so I apologize if this was asked. Have you met Donald Trump?
p. 140Ms. Kellen.I did once at Mar-a-Lago for maybe 5 minutes in my first or second year of employment in probably 2001 or 2002.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. And what was the nature of that interaction, the 5 minutes?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.Jeffrey used to go use the gym at Mar-a-Lago, and I went with him one time, and Mr. Trump was there, and he intro- -- Jeffrey introduced me to him.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.And what year was that?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.Probably 2001 or 2002.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. And did you see or witness anything untoward. in your interaction with Donald Trump?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.No. It was in just one of, like, the main rooms at Mar+a-Lago.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay.
p. 141Ms. Kellen.He was kind of, like, introducing me, and that was it. It wasn't, like, a very long interaction.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.And that was the only-interaction you've had, those 5 minutes in 2001 or 2002 at Mar-a-Lago?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.Yes. For me personally, yes.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay~And how about Melania Trump?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.I've nevermet her.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.How about any other member of the Trump family?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.met his sons through my ex-husband. He was friendly with them.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.I'm sorry?
p. 141Ms. Kellen.My ex-husband was friendly with Don Jr. and Eric. So I met them, not through Jeffrey but through my ex-husband.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.The ex-husband, who --
p. 141Ms. Kellen.My second ex-husband, Brian Vickers.
p. 141Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Okay. And what was the interaction with them at that time?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.I remember having lunch with them in New York.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.What year was this?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.It would've been probably -- we were married in 2013, so it would've been sometime after 2013.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. And it was a social occasion that you met them for lunch?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.Just for lunch, yeah. Mr. Krishnamoorthi, Okay. Okay. Got it. Any other members of the Trump family?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.I don't think so.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Is there -- I'm just going to name so me agencies, you know, like, three-letter agencies. Have you ever heard the word "FSB" in your time with Jeffrey Epstein? When you were employed with him, I'm saying.
p. 142Ms. Kellen.Doesn't sound familiar.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Mossad?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.Not, I don't think, inrelation to Jeffrey.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.CIA?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.MI5?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 142Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Did you ever come across an interaction or are you aware of any interaction between Jeffrey Epstein and any foreign intelligence agency?
p. 142Ms. Kellen.I remember there being -- I don't know the exact situation, but his bodyguard, Igor Zinoviev -- I remember there being something about him taking a class or something with the CIA or getting a certification or something, and I don't know exactly what it was or how that came to be.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. And we've heard about this Igor character.
p. 143Ms. Kellen.Uh-huh.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Igor, he was supposedly a guard for him at the jail, or whatever they call it, during his work release?
p. 143Ms. Kellen.He was his personal trainer. And then when Jeffrey went to jail, he was-sort of his driver and bodyguard after that.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Igor. Did you ever have any interaction withlgor?
p. 143Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. And did Igor have any -- are you aware of Igor having any interaction with a foreign intelligence agency?
p. 143Ms. Kellen.Other than I -- I don't know -- I don't know how I knew or heard that he had taken so me sort of, like, course or something with the CIA.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. But not a foreign, like --
p. 143Ms. Kellen.A foreign one, no.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Finally, I want to just turn. to financial transactions. I understand that there was a wire transfer that they talked about or so me kind of financial transaction that you folks discussed. We are aware Of 1-point -- well, $1.5 billion in wire transfers that were picked up in what are called "suspicious activity reports" that are kept by the Treasury Department, and banks have to disclose them: What is the largest wire transfer that you are aware of that Epstein was involved with?
p. 143Ms. Kellen.I wasn't aware of any other large transfers except the ones that he sent to me.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. And those are the only ones that you are aware of?
p. 143Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 143Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. By the way, Wexner -- have you met Wexner?
p. 144Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.You did. Okay. Wexner made very large wire transfer- -- made very large transactions with Mr. Epstein, supposedly to pay him for financial advice. What is your opinion on that, or what is your knowledge of that?
p. 144Ms. Kellen.I don't have any knowledge of their business dealings or how much. he was paid or any of that.
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Ghislaine Maxwell is now seeking -- by the way, before this interview, you did not have any interaction with the Trump administration, correct, or any members of the Trump administration?
p. 144Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 144Ms. Hamm.You me an in preparing for this interview?
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Correct.
p. 144Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.And nobody reached out to you?
p. 144Ms. Kellen.No. Mr. Krishnamoorthi;.And no other actors or entities reached out to you either, right?
p. 144Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay, good. Ghislaine Maxwell is seeking clemency right now. You're aware of that, right?
p. 144Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.She's seeking a pardon. I presume that you would agree that she does not deserve any form of clemency.
p. 144Ms. Kellen.I would agree.
p. 144Mr. Krishnamoorthi.And why is that?
p. 145Ms. Kellen.She abused me. I believe that she -- I always had this, sort of, belief that she's the one that turned Jeffrey in to the monster that he became.
p. 145Mr. Krishnamoorthi.How many people do you think Ghislaine Maxwell, specifically, participated in abusing? You don't have to name names; I'm just saying numbers.
p. 145Ms. Kellen.Ask the question again. Sorry.
p. 145Mr. Krishnamoorthi.I'm asking you, how many people, ballpark, do you believe that Ghislaine Maxwell personally participated in abusing? I'm not asking you to name names-}'m just saying ballpark. Are we talking hundreds?
p. 145Ms. Kellen.I don't know. I didn't witness anything but my own-abuse with her.
p. 145Mr. Krishnamoorthi.You never witnessed Ghislaine Maxwell participating in any abuse of any other person?
p. 145Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 145Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. I think that's all for me. Thank you,
p. 145Ms. Hamm.May I just make sure the record is clear? Because you asked about -- if it's all right -- you asked about her meetings with foreign intelligence officials. You did travel and meet with foreign government officials with Mr. Epstein, right, in Israel and Russia and places like that? But you just don't -- you have no knowledge, either way, if there were intelligence officials in these meetings. Is that right?
p. 145Ms. Kellen.Correct.
p. 145Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Sorry. Two questions. Ministry of State Security, have you heard of that? MSS?
p. 145Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 145Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Have you met -- do you know if Jeffrey Epstein ever had any contact with Xi Jinping?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Vladimir Putin?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.No. He interview- -- had contact with someone that used to date Naomi Campbell that was Russian, Vlad -- Viad something. They came to lunch in Palm Beach.
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. But not -- not Putin?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.No. Pu- -- not that I'm aware of, no.
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay.
p. 146Ms. Hamm.When you were in Moscow, you don't remember meeting with anyone --
p. 146Ms. Kellen.No --
p. 146Ms. Hamm.-- from the Russian Government?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.Well, we did have a dinner in Moscow with -- I think he was one of the head of the Chechnyan rebels, in probably 2003, I want to say.
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.With one of the heads of the Chechen rebels?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.Yes.
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Okay. In Moscow?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.In Moscow. Mr. Krishnamoorthi;.Okay. Okay. Okay.
p. 146Ms. Kellen.It-was a dinner with a bunch of people, and he had --
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Rebels? Or the people that were sent to suppress the rebels? Or you don't know?
p. 146Ms. Kellen.I was --
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay.
p. 146Ms. Kellen.-- very ignorant about all of those sorts of things at the time.
p. 146Mr. Krishnamoorthi.I understand. Okay.
p. 146Ms. Kellen.I recognized, kind of, his name and picture from the press.
p. 147Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay.
p. 147Ms. Kellen.And he had, like, armed guards around him at the dinner --
p. 147Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay.
p. 147Ms. Kellen.-- in Moscow.
p. 147Mr. Krishnamoorthi.And you didn't have any contact with anyone from North Korea?
p. 147Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 147Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Or Iran?
p. 147Ms. Kellen.No.
p. 147Mr. Krishnamoorthi.Okay. Thank you. Ms. a. You said just a few minutes ago that you, think that Ms. Maxwell made Mr. Epstein the monster that he was. Can you say more about that?
p. 147Ms. Kellen.She just would -- like, her whole life was just pleasing him and giving him whatever he wanted and making sure everybody did exactly what he said to do, and made him entitled. Like, she -- you know, he was wealthy, and she was looking to maintain her lifestyle that she was accustomed to that she. grew up with. And she had all the connections. And I feel like, she kind of taught and shaped Jeffrey in to who he became, showed him how to use his money. Like, he didn't have private planes before her, he didn't have the townhouse before her. Like, she’kind of showed him how he should live his life. And I think that it created the sense of entitlement that he could do whatever he wanted. Ms. a. Got it. Thank you. Mr. a. Very last question, and it's a short one. I'm going to run a name past you: Akhmad Kadyrov. Is that, by any chance, the Chechen leader who you met with in Moscow?
p. 147Ms. Kellen.No. Doesn't sound familiar. Mr. I Okay.
p. 148Ms. Hamm.Can we go off the record for a second? Mr. ae. Off the record. [Discussion off the record.] Mr. a. And we're back on.
p. 148Ms. Hamm.So I think the question was, did you remember this person?
p. 148Ms. Kellen.Not that particular name. There was another -- another name.) It was, like, Umar or something along those lines. Yeah. Mr. a. And we are done. Ms. Kellen, thank you very much. And we are off the record. [Whereupon, at 3:35 p. m., the interview was concluded.] Certificate of Deponent/Interviewee I have read the foregoing pages, which contain the correct transcript of the answers made by me to the questions there in recorded. Witness Name Date