Court Records
President, can you state your name for the record? Grace, how do you say your last name? How old are you? I'm 18. 18. Okay. You're currently in college? Yeah. Okay. What college are you attending? Your date of birth is? You should raise your right hand for me. You sound like you're going to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so I hope you got it. Yeah. Okay. Grace, can you tell me from the beginning how you met? I know you have some information, and we are conducting an investigation. We were here last night and spoke with your mom and dad. If you can just start from the beginning as how you met him and how it came about. I met him through my father. Okay. How long ago was that? It's kind of about... A few years ago. Okay. I went there once with her, and she gave him a massage, and then she asked me if I wanted to do it, and then I did it, and whatever. And then after that, he kind of spared me when I went there, so I decided not to go back. Okay. The first time you went with him, did you go upstairs with him? No. I stayed down in the kitchen. Okay. Did he tell you what was entailed as to what had to be done? Well, she said the first time you go, it's just like a massage, and she said, like, well, the more you go, it's supposed to be, like, the more he expects and starts sparing what goes, and that's what it was kind of sparing me. Okay. I've interviewed other girls, and they've told me pretty much the same thing about the massage, but there's more to that, more to the massage. Okay. That's why I didn't want mom to be in here. And you can talk to me about anything. Okay. Like I said, I've interviewed other people. You already have told me what really transpired in that room. I know it's going to be difficult for you, but... Well, the first time I went there, I gave him a massage, and he was just, he was asking a lot of questions. He seemed, like, really nice, and then, like, he kept, like, staring at me and stuff, and then, like, I gave him a massage, and then he just kept looking at me, and he was like, oh, you're being shy, and I was like, yeah, and he was like, you're so uncomfortable, and I was like, yeah, a little bit. And he was like, okay, and he was like, well, do you want to stop, and I was like, no, it's okay, and he was like, he was like, why are you, like, you're being shy, and I was like, oh, I don't know, and then we, like, changed the subject, and he started talking about other things, and then, um, and then, when we were done, he said that, like, if, um, if I wanted to come back and do more of that, he would, like, pay me more, and then, um, I would have to talk to him, and then I could come back. Okay. What kind of questions did he ask you as you were massaging him? Um, he just asked me about, um, it was weird, or I don't remember everything, but he was just asking me, um, you know, if I had any friends that might want to give him a massage, and I said, I don't know, and then he asked me about, like, what I wanted to do when I grew up, and, um, just stuff like that, and I asked him what he did, and he said he was, like, a scientist. Did he ever ask you how old you were? No. No. Did he know that you were 17? No. Oh, it would have been 16 or 14 years ago, right? It was, like, almost three years ago. I couldn't tell if I was 17. Okay. During the massage, did you, were you naked, or? No, no, no. You had all your clothes on? Mm-hmm. Did he touch you in any way? He was, like, kind of, like, bringing me towards it, but then I was, like, he could tell I was shy, so I think that's why he didn't, um, but I heard about other girls that he, um, that he just got, like, like, 250 pounds, and he was going to take off their clothes and stuff. Mm-hmm. Okay. That was the first time you went, right? Yeah. Okay. Well, no, it was the second time that I went to the massage, the first time I went. Okay, so you went upstairs with? I was just in the kitchen. You were in the kitchen? That was, so you, you only had two, two times that you went there? Yeah. The first time, you didn't do anything but just sit in the kitchen? Yeah. Who did you sit in the kitchen with? Um, we had a cook that was there, and we had, um, there was, like, two other girls that I got to live with them. Okay. Did you massage his back? Was he naked when you were massaging him? No, he had, like, a towel around his, his upper, his neck, and he had, like, a towel around his. Okay. Did he ever remove that towel? No. When you were massaging him, he never removed the towel? Okay. Did you, um, did he have you touch his private area? No, no. I wouldn't do that. You wouldn't do that? Yeah. Did he touch you in your private area? No. No. He kept, like, staring at me, and, like, I don't know, I just felt very uncomfortable when I was, when I heard other stories that, like... Right. I'm, I'm concerned with you. I know about other stories, and I've interviewed other people who have told me different things. That's why I'm trying to, um, find out what happened to you, okay? Mm-hmm. You're, you're the victim in this, so that's why I'm trying to find out what happened to you. Mm-hmm. Okay? Um, who, who took you upstairs? Um, this girl. Did she tell you anything? Did she say anything? Mm-mm. There was a massage table, and she just laid a towel down, and she said that stuff will be up before she's gone. Okay. Have you received any massage training? No. No? I have to ask. Yeah. Um, was that one of the two girls that was in the kitchen with you? Yes. Did you ever go back to, to his house? No, I just went back to him after that. After that, you'd never come back? Right. You'd never come back? How much did you receive for the massage? $200. You received $200. Did he explain to you what was going to be involved? No, he said the first time you go there, you pretty much get a massage, but the more you go there, the more it sucks. So, that's what kind of scared me. That's what scared you? She said, what did you more expect that she would individually say? She didn't say exactly what it was. What did you say? He didn't say it, but, you know. You didn't say, you know, what I heard about, and stuff like that. You didn't remove any of his clothing? No. What were you wearing? Can you remember? Um, I don't know. That was a long time ago. Not exactly. I don't want to tell you anymore. And I know you already told your mom. What happened? Like I said, I know this is hard for you, but. I just said, I just said my family and stuff. You're not the only person I've talked to. Yeah, there's a lot of people I've talked to and haven't gone to talk to. When did you get to his house? About the second time. When you got to his house? Yeah. I got the last time. Oh, you got the last time? Yeah. The second time I drove and she came up to me. Oh, she drove? Yeah. She did everything. Okay. Where is that you drive? Um, I used to have a, a Cavalier. A Cavalier? Yeah. You describe to me what Mr. Epstein looked like? What did Jeffrey look like? Um, he's tall and he has like three black hair and a very very blue face. He was very fun to talk to. Uh-huh. Do you know where he was from? Um, I don't know. I don't know. Do you know where he was from? Uh-huh. Do you know where he was from? I don't know. I don't know. Um, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And then he has like grayish black hair, and then he has a little bit of black face, and he has blue eyes. Okay. Uh, when you massage, when you massage him, you massage his back area? Yes. And I do his feet too. And his feet. Okay. Do you do his legs? Yeah, like his calves. His calves. His thigh area? Yeah. His chest area? Yeah. Now, can you describe what his body looks like? Um, he's not fat, but he's not old-fashioned. He's just like, you know, average. Average. Okay. Is he hairy? Is he not hairy? Um, a little bit. A little bit? A little bit? He's got hair on his back? Yeah, yeah. Yeah? How about hair on his chest? Um, I don't remember. So he did not touch you inappropriately? No. No. Did he, um, masturbate? No. No. No? Do you know what masturbate means? No. Okay. Tell me what it means. Mm-hmm. Just so I know, so you know. Mm-hmm. Okay. Tell me what it means. Okay. Okay. I have to make sure you understand what it means. Okay. I know it's difficult. I know. Um, he didn't touch himself while you were massaging him? No. No. Is there anything else you'd like to add? No. I mean, I heard of other stories that you say, and I don't, you know, think it's very appropriate or something. Right. Just so I know. Right. There are a lot of people that I've been talking to, um, about your age and a couple younger than you. So that's the part that I have serious problems with is. Yeah. Um. Do you have any questions? Did you see any other, when you were there, you said you saw two girls in a kiss the second time you went? Younger. Were there any other girls there? Yeah. There were three or two girls. There were three or two girls. Okay. I think that, I'm pretty sure that it was less than traveling with him or whatever. Okay. All right. Well, at this time, I'm going to conclude this statement. It's, uh, 1145 a.m. Okay. Cool.